I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
Wasn't Muir of Ord the site of a brief furore about the time of the Queen's death when a republican chippy owner put up some sort of celebratory notice, before quickly disappearing down the royal-family-are-space-lizards rabbit hole?
I too love the name. Almost impossible to say without an overly Scottish accent. Ditto Haugh of Urr.
Anyway - back up this nest of comments - that Guardian piece on Wick, along with Port Talbot, Rochdale, Croydon and Kettering is an interesting piece - though quite typical of Guardian writing ('go to this fun place and find a new way of pondering how awful the country is'). Of Wick, Rochdale, Kettering, Croydon and Port Talbot, where would I rather spend a weekend? Definitely Wick. But where would I rather live? Wick would probably be bottom of the list. I suppose out of loyalty to Greater Manchester I ought to be saying Rochdale, but jeez Rochdale is depressing. There are nice suburbs to it, of course, but you'd still be living in the outer orbit of Rochdale. But if you can overcome that you're quite nicely placed for hills and city, which I suppose puts it ahead of Kettering.
So for a weekend: 1: Wick 2: Croydon 3: Rochdale 4: Kettering 5: PT
To live 1: Rochdale 2: Kettering 3: Croydon 4: PT 5: Wick
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
It is simply not true.
I too have just checked and there are cabins available virtually every day from Euston to Inverness. The Euston to Fort William route is more booked in May but there are still cabins available every week and loads in e.g. June.
Admittedly I only looked at Club Class Ensuite because I wouldn’t want to do it any other way, and you’ll pay £300 in high season, but there are zillions of spaces available almost every day.
Fair enough. I looked at two dates in May and both were solid. Maybe just unlucky
"much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer"
"I looked at two dates in May and both were solid"
I wasn’t just basing my remark on one quick check of the site. I went on the Caledonian sleeper in summer 2022 for an article in the gazette
So I worked with their PR company and they were adamant they needed lots of warning as to dates as they tended to sell out all desirable slots months in advance - especially on the fort William route which is the best by far
CORRECTION: I previously stated that the extension to Edinburgh's single tram line had led to a doubling of tram passengers since it opened last year. It was only a 90% increase in the end.
Another limitation is that the increase isn't quite as impressive compared with pre-COVID figures. However, given the increase in WFH and reduction in commutes to the business parks in the west, it's still an impressive return.
Have I got this right? Sir Keir subjected the Speaker to an astonishing piece of moral blackmail: rip up a parliamentary procedure or my MPs will be in danger of violent attack. You have to sympathize with Lindsay Hoyle - who'd want that on their conscience - but Sir Keir had put him into an impossible situation.
If I was Hoyle, I would at least make clear the facts of any conversation which he had with Starmer yesterday. It was clear he was skirting around it at best.
In some ways I feel sorry for Hoyle as I do believe he is a decent speaker, but unfortunately he made the mistake of ignoring his Clerks advice and may well pay a heavy price for it
In his rather tearful apology he did say he would call all parties to a meeting to see a way forward and frankly, that is what he should have done in these circumstances 'before' his arbitrary decision
I feel sorry for him too. He's been a good speaker and he was put in a bad position.
If Starmer put any pressure on him, then Starmer overstepped the mark. He's the leader of the opposition and a very likely next PM and shouln't have done it.
The problem for Starmer is that Labour faced a choice between two options carefully calibrated to put them in an impossible position - couldn't vote for the SNP motion because it was too critical of Israel, couldn't vote with the government because it wasn't critical enough of Israel. All normal Parliamentary fun and games you might say, but in this case the stakes seem to be much higher, and trapping Labour in this way, so that they couldn't vote for their compromise position of what they judge to be the right amount of criticism of Israel could have very severe consequences.
I think it was irresponsible of the SNP to play Parliamentary games with an issue which has the potential to rile people up to such an extent. Politicians have a responsibility to lead the country towards peaceful compromise, not to provoke violent discord.
Hoyle seems to recognise he ballsed up. “I thought I was doing the right thing and the best thing, and I regret it, and I apologise for how it’s ended up,”
While I understand the behaviour of Labour, and the SNP, what was the justification for a government which commands a large majority in the House just walking out of the debate ?
The SNP had a genuine grievance over the ruling; the government didn't.
The SNP’s grievance is that they wanted to embarrass the Labour Party and couldn’t, by voting on something that would never pass. The Government also wanted the Labour Party to be embarrassed, so their grievance is similar.
I'm not defending the SNP - but parties are cynical. That doesn't excuse a Speaker messing up Commons procedure - as he seems to acknowledge.
He's not a strong enough character to get away with rulings which are of questionable impartiality.
The SNP has a grievance over losing what was their debate thanks to his ruling - irrespective of the moral dubiousness of their position.. The government are just whingeing from the sidelines.
Given the rules as they are, the SNP has a genuine grievance; they get just three opportunities a year to have a vote on a proposition of their choosing.
But the whole process is a nonsense, with opposition motions of no consequence even if passed, and since Johnson the Tories have often just ignored the debate altogether, let Labour's motion pass by abstaining, and then saying it's all irrelevant. So it's another aspect of our democracy that serves no real purpose other than posturing and show. That place desperately needs dragging into the 21st Century; indeed even getting to the 20th Century would be progress.
It wasn't till yesterday I found this out. Why bother wasting time on votes and motions that can be ignored and don't mean anything? Why do opposition parties bother with them?
If I was an MP, I'd just see it as a day off - go and do some better constituency work instead.
On the plight of Hoyle, let us play out the alternative scenario yesterday. Starmer tells him that Labour MPs and others are in fear of their safety. Hoyle calls in the whips of the SNP and Tories.
Would they all have reached an agreement? No. Because the entire purpose of yesterday was to sow division. An SNP debate explicitly designed and worded to create divisions in Labour they could exploit to try and save some central belt seats. The Tories latched on hoping to save some red wall seats.
Compromise? Fat chance. Hoyle was screwed whatever he did - and remember that his actions were in order, even though the clerks advised against doing so.
If they could not come to an agreement, then he has at least talked to them, and appraised them of the situation. if they could not agree, then he should have asked them for proposals. In other words, he should have listened to all sides. Whilst he is the 'Speaker', that role mainly involves listening.
If none of the proposals were satisfactory, he should have given a solemn speech at the start about the dangers and threats facing MPs. And gone ahead according to procedure.
Instead, he just did Starmer's bidding. And potentially placed MPs of other parties in danger.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I have, alas, never been able to sleep while on a sleeper train, which does rather detract from what would otherwise be one of its greatest advantages.
I find it easy to sleep on trains, as do many. Indeed there’s a theory for it - the rickety motion rocks you like a cradle which in turn rocks you as you were once rocked in your mother’s womb as she walked. That’s why we have cradles that rock
And the noise of a train can be vaguely like a regular heartbeat
And if all else fails drink a bottle of red and pop a Xanax
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
It's not like the BR days when there were plenty of locomotives and coaches to draw on all over the UK. New trains have to be specified and ordered years in advance because of the privatisation setup. I don't suppose it is possible to borrow from the people who do the Penzance sleepers as they will have diverged in design, even if they had any spares. A further issue is that the service is locomotive hauled which is now very unusual for a passenger train, so this has been a complication in terms of finding anyone with a suitable loco [edit] and also servicing depots - as things are, GB Railfreight provide the locos now.
I understand the Flying Scotsman has an expensive problem with self locking carriage doors
Isn't that the commercial tourist operation? The LNER train is just a particular service, nothing unusual about the stock.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Ooh hang on. Flashbacks to my misspent yoof. Up at what felt like silly o'clock but was only 6am. Early bus into Rochdale (one of the West Yorkshire ones as GM Buses didn't run early), onto the 400 bus - the Trans-Lancs Express which was a limited-stop double-decker with coach seats. Always upstairs at the front, down to Stockport.
Then onto the train south, a Class 304 EMU with a bouncy ride and deeply spring seats which almost bounced you onto the floor on the rougher bits of track. Train was Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke, then went on to Birmingham New Street, then to Walsall. Slow, but one train to get to Bescot and then Duddeston for a mooch around the loco sheds.
I seem to remember that 4 buses plus a platform ticket at Stocktport (I know, I know) was 60p. And I did that when I was 12!
On the plight of Hoyle, let us play out the alternative scenario yesterday. Starmer tells him that Labour MPs and others are in fear of their safety. Hoyle calls in the whips of the SNP and Tories.
Would they all have reached an agreement? No. Because the entire purpose of yesterday was to sow division. An SNP debate explicitly designed and worded to create divisions in Labour they could exploit to try and save some central belt seats. The Tories latched on hoping to save some red wall seats.
Compromise? Fat chance. Hoyle was screwed whatever he did - and remember that his actions were in order, even though the clerks advised against doing so.
If they could not come to an agreement, then he has at least talked to them, and appraised them of the situation. if they could not agree, then he should have asked them for proposals. In other words, he should have listened to all sides. Whilst he is the 'Speaker', that role mainly involves listening.
If none of the proposals were satisfactory, he should have given a solemn speech at the start about the dangers and threats facing MPs. And gone ahead according to procedure.
Instead, he just did Starmer's bidding. And potentially placed MPs of other parties in danger.
In all the chaos several mps made the point that as they did not vote they could not express their opinion to their constituents
It is a valid point that nobody voted for anything yesterday
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
It's not like the BR days when there were plenty of locomotives and coaches to draw on all over the UK. New trains have to be specified and ordered years in advance because of the privatisation setup. I don't suppose it is possible to borrow from the people who do the Penzance sleepers as they will have diverged in design, even if they had any spares. A further issue is that the service is locomotive hauled which is now very unusual for a passenger train, so this has been a complication in terms of finding anyone with a suitable loco [edit] and also servicing depots - as things are, GB Railfreight provide the locos now.
I understand the Flying Scotsman has an expensive problem with self locking carriage doors
Isn't that the commercial tourist operation? The LNER train is just a particular service, nothing unusual about the stock.
Yes - I think it is to do with the specials and interaction with the locking system
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Oi! The early morning trip south from Stockport is one of the great train journeys. The sun rising over the Pennines to your east, mist hanging low on the fields of Cheshire; Bosley Cloud marking the start of the Midlands... You get to see the house I grew up in shortly after you slide out of Stockport, which is a personal benefit.
On the plight of Hoyle, let us play out the alternative scenario yesterday. Starmer tells him that Labour MPs and others are in fear of their safety. Hoyle calls in the whips of the SNP and Tories.
Would they all have reached an agreement? No. Because the entire purpose of yesterday was to sow division. An SNP debate explicitly designed and worded to create divisions in Labour they could exploit to try and save some central belt seats. The Tories latched on hoping to save some red wall seats.
Compromise? Fat chance. Hoyle was screwed whatever he did - and remember that his actions were in order, even though the clerks advised against doing so.
If they could not come to an agreement, then he has at least talked to them, and appraised them of the situation. if they could not agree, then he should have asked them for proposals. In other words, he should have listened to all sides. Whilst he is the 'Speaker', that role mainly involves listening.
If none of the proposals were satisfactory, he should have given a solemn speech at the start about the dangers and threats facing MPs. And gone ahead according to procedure.
Instead, he just did Starmer's bidding. And potentially placed MPs of other parties in danger.
In all the chaos several mps made the point that as they did not vote they could not express their opinion to their constituents
It is a valid point that nobody voted for anything yesterday
That was part of what some people wanted.
So they can say they didn't vote against *anything*
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
It's not like the BR days when there were plenty of locomotives and coaches to draw on all over the UK. New trains have to be specified and ordered years in advance because of the privatisation setup. I don't suppose it is possible to borrow from the people who do the Penzance sleepers as they will have diverged in design, even if they had any spares. A further issue is that the service is locomotive hauled which is now very unusual for a passenger train, so this has been a complication in terms of finding anyone with a suitable loco [edit] and also servicing depots - as things are, GB Railfreight provide the locos now.
I understand the Flying Scotsman has an expensive problem with self locking carriage doors
Isn't that the commercial tourist operation? The LNER train is just a particular service, nothing unusual about the stock.
I'm sure the people of Gaza slept soundly in their rubble last night, thankful that British politicians love a bit of grandstanding. The IDF must surely be quaking in their boots.
On the plight of Hoyle, let us play out the alternative scenario yesterday. Starmer tells him that Labour MPs and others are in fear of their safety. Hoyle calls in the whips of the SNP and Tories.
Would they all have reached an agreement? No. Because the entire purpose of yesterday was to sow division. An SNP debate explicitly designed and worded to create divisions in Labour they could exploit to try and save some central belt seats. The Tories latched on hoping to save some red wall seats.
Compromise? Fat chance. Hoyle was screwed whatever he did - and remember that his actions were in order, even though the clerks advised against doing so.
If they could not come to an agreement, then he has at least talked to them, and appraised them of the situation. if they could not agree, then he should have asked them for proposals. In other words, he should have listened to all sides. Whilst he is the 'Speaker', that role mainly involves listening.
If none of the proposals were satisfactory, he should have given a solemn speech at the start about the dangers and threats facing MPs. And gone ahead according to procedure.
Instead, he just did Starmer's bidding. And potentially placed MPs of other parties in danger.
In all the chaos several mps made the point that as they did not vote they could not express their opinion to their constituents
It is a valid point that nobody voted for anything yesterday
That was part of what some people wanted.
So they can say they didn't vote against *anything*
And others wanted it recorded
One of the most shameful days in Parliament with nobody getting any credit
Grim news from Birmingham today. City Council has announced cuts to deal with effective insolvency notice. Includes:
-sale of £750m of assets -cuts of to public services by £300m over two years -21% rise in Council Tax -dimming street lights -fortnightly bin collections
Their liabilities for equal pay claims that look quite tenuous ought to make people question the premise of the legislation.
Refuse collectors have been paid more than all other council jobs of the same grade. Refuse collectors are nearly all men. Other jobs are partly or mostly women. The net effect of the implementation of the law says that a man working a grade 3 job at the council can claim equal pay compensation under what is called sex discrimination. On the surface that seems wrong. Beneath that, a grade 3 worker in one job should be paid the same as a grade 3 worker in another job regardless of sex. The mockery of the law is that if the council outsources workers, the law no-longer applies and they can be paid wildly different amounts. Even though they do the same job and ultimately for the same people.
It's not the same job, if it was the same job then why don't people who want to be paid a refuse collectors wage apply to be a refuge collector?
Supply and demand should set wages. If another job pays more, then go for it. If you don't want to, then maybe that is the reason it pays more?
Our collections typically happen at 7am and in this time of year it's happening in miserable, cold, wet, outdoor weather.
Should people who work outside of normal hours, outside, exposed to the elements like the rain be paid more than people who do a comparably skilled job, for which there's much more of a supply of people willing to do it, who work comfortably inside? I don't see why not.
The concept of banding has stretched. And now snapped.
It comes back to bizarre nonsense about status and pay.
So we can’t pay people in public service the going rate. Because they might get paid more than “their band”.
So we have the comedy of job adverts for IT specialists with a decade of experience and paid £40k, in London.
When this all started off (late 1980s) computers weren’t really heard of.
And then in the 1990s those computers were used by secretaries whose grade were clerical and once placed there it’s been impossible to shift their grades because you would need to start again and better have £x round to pay for all the jobs being moved round
There's a longer history to the grades than that.
IIRC in a number of countries, refuse collection is a high paid job and not compared to the desk work in local government.
I seem to recall a story that a whole bunch of Australian semi-pro athletes used to work as binmen in Sydney - good money, and the job was just in the early morning, leaving the rest of the day for training.
EDIT: There is also the issue that the nature and status of some manual work has changed. In times past, "some men from the council" would trim the trees. Now being a Tree Surgeon is a fairly well paid, specialist job, that has a fair bit of status in the private sector.
UKRI did actually reband all STEM staff lately to bring them in line with private sector grades. My compensation package is now on the low end of what I might get in the private sector rather than 50% of it. More than made up for by how interesting the work is compared to being a defence contractor drone.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Ooh hang on. Flashbacks to my misspent yoof. Up at what felt like silly o'clock but was only 6am. Early bus into Rochdale (one of the West Yorkshire ones as GM Buses didn't run early), onto the 400 bus - the Trans-Lancs Express which was a limited-stop double-decker with coach seats. Always upstairs at the front, down to Stockport.
Then onto the train south, a Class 304 EMU with a bouncy ride and deeply spring seats which almost bounced you onto the floor on the rougher bits of track. Train was Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke, then went on to Birmingham New Street, then to Walsall. Slow, but one train to get to Bescot and then Duddeston for a mooch around the loco sheds.
I seem to remember that 4 buses plus a platform ticket at Stocktport (I know, I know) was 60p. And I did that when I was 12!
My WORST train experience was maybe Chicago to Toronto. My god North American trains can be shit
It was meant to take, I dunno, 7 hours or something? In the end it took about 20 - no joke -‘coz it kept stopping for freight trains or just stopping
The seats were rock hard. The landscape was relentlessly grim - the poor bits of upper Midwest in late winter. It was cold. There was NO catering
But even then it had a kind of romance. A train across America! Across the frontier into Canada! Signs in French!
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
The Caledonian Sleeper loses money despite its high prices - Serco lost money while it ran the service despite ongoing subsidies and the Scottish government co-funding the new trains. An additional service might be full during peak months but would be unused for the rest of the year, so it would probably would not be economic to buy new rolling stock for it. It's a shame because it is the most wonderful thing.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I have, alas, never been able to sleep while on a sleeper train, which does rather detract from what would otherwise be one of its greatest advantages.
I find it easy to sleep on trains, as do many. Indeed there’s a theory for it - the rickety motion rocks you like a cradle which in turn rocks you as you were once rocked in your mother’s womb as she walked. That’s why we have cradles that rock
And the noise of a train can be vaguely like a regular heartbeat
And if all else fails drink a bottle of red and pop a Xanax
I like going on sleeper trains as they’re the only service on which we’re allowed to book higher class travel to get a single room. It usually comes out cheaper for us to do the sleeper to and from a meeting in the capital than it is to get the normal train and a night in a London hotel.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
The Caledonian Sleeper loses money despite its high prices - Serco lost money while it ran the service despite ongoing subsidies and the Scottish government co-funding the new trains. An additional service might be full during peak months but would be unused for the rest of the year, so it would probably would not be economic to buy new rolling stock for it. It's a shame because it is the most wonderful thing.
So just reduce the prices - and quality of service - in the winter? At some price point it will become irresistible - even in January - and fill up. They need someone like Ryanair or easyJet to take it over.
There must be a way to make it work because it is so special
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
On other matters, Hoyle has been a poor speaker throughout. I won’t be sorry if this brings him down, as frankly it should.
Well, that's quite the point.
His speakership wouldn't have been mentioned yesterday had he been a good speaker.
The fact it was tells you he's not particularly widely respected.
He’s at least the best Speaker they’ve had since Boothroyd (though given the two intervening ones, that’s not saying much). I think he’s a decent man and I think he cares about the HoC so he clearly meets the job requirements. I think part of the problem is he has made playing by the rulebook his shtick (particularly in light of his predecessor’s… inventiveness) so when he didn’t the fall is more severe.
That said, I did mention yesterday that for the senior Labour sources to approach Newsnight to essentially say he was leant on, there must be some in the Labour Party who would prefer him to not be there. They must have known that would become a story and he could lose his job over it.
I agree with Southam. He's a decent guy with good principles - but he's too weak a character to be an effective Speaker when the going gets tough (which is when it matters).
A Labour government with a large majority would prefer a weak Speaker. I wouldn't.
This was the reason the Cameron government detested John Bercow. Governments of any stripe want a compliant Speaker.
Hoyle is surely finished. Even if the saga over the Gaza vote can be smoothed over, the other parties won't want a speaker they perceive as Sir Keir's batman.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
I just checked and it’s true that much of the Caledonian sleeper is booked solid through the spring and summer
Despite being seriously expensive
This seems to be a failure of free enterprise. If there is such demand, provide more trains, and make more money? Or am I missing something?
It's not like the BR days when there were plenty of locomotives and coaches to draw on all over the UK. New trains have to be specified and ordered years in advance because of the privatisation setup. I don't suppose it is possible to borrow from the people who do the Penzance sleepers as they will have diverged in design, even if they had any spares. A further issue is that the service is locomotive hauled which is now very unusual for a passenger train, so this has been a complication in terms of finding anyone with a suitable loco [edit] and also servicing depots - as things are, GB Railfreight provide the locos now.
The Cornish sleeper is ALSO really popular now. Despite attempts to cancel it altogether some years ago
Trains are back in fashion. They are more sustainable. People don’t want to drive or fly. Sleepers are fun. Invest!
I was looking forward so much to a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer as part of a trip round the Rockies. Turned out to be well down the pecking order of memorable highlights of that last holiday before Mrs BJ became a paraplegic.
Banff Gondola, the Athabasca Glacier, Lake Louise, Vancouver, Victoria Island all rank above the Jasper to Vancouver train ride, so average.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
The universe requires equilibrium. @Sunil_Prasannan , the Hindu God of All Trains, graces us with his presence and bathes us in his healing light. To bring balance to the force, I must post equally vapid bilge but in the opposite direction, to emphasise my seething hatred of steel wheel on steel track, and hence keep the universe from imploding. It's a burden but one I shoulder willingly.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
As far as I can make out various people from various parties wanted to engage in some pointless posturing, by passing a motion, or motions, that would be totally ignored by the groups and states that they referenced. Hoyle appears to have upset the proposers of these motions and, therefore, needs to step down as speaker asap.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
As far as I can make out various people from various parties wanted to engage in some pointless posturing, by passing a motion, or motions, that would be totally ignored by the groups and states that they referenced. Hoyle appears to have upset the proposers of these motions and, therefore, needs to step down as speaker asap.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
As far as I can make out various people from various parties wanted to engage in some pointless posturing, by passing a motion, or motions, that would be totally ignored by the groups and states that they referenced. Hoyle appears to have upset the proposers of these motions and, therefore, needs to step down as speaker asap.
A truly astonishing Westminster circular firing squad.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
They’re looking weak in the central belt so they’re mostly using their oppo debates and PMQs to ding Labour. Perfectly reasonable political strategy, but I’ve no sympathy when it blows up in their face.
I was looking forward so much to a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer as part of a trip round the Rockies. Turned out to be well down the pecking order of memorable highlights of that last holiday before Mrs BJ became a paraplegic.
Banff Gondola, the Athabasca Glacier, Lake Louise, Vancouver, Victoria Island all rank above the Jasper to Vancouver train ride, so average.
Victoria Island ? That was adventurous! I take it you mean Victoria on Vancouver Island?
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
They can do what they like with their parliamentary days, the point is they're their opposition days - not Labour's. Labour could have called for a ceasefire one one of it's 17 days if it wanted to. The point is it was the SNP's day, not Labour's. Hoyle's actions effectively nullified the entire day for them.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
True dat - it's rather crap. Also, what's happened to the food? Used to be not bad, now it's poor airline standard.
PS For what it's worth we just had three nights in Paris - in contrast to Eurostar, the dining was very good on each night. We tried a 'cheap' bistro, a mid-range restaurant, and a Michelin-starred restaurant. All great food within their class and surprisingly excellent service. Expensive though - London-level prices.
So Leon's sort of right from our quick sortie: France (Paris) is no longer providing outstanding food value imo - those days are gone - but solid fare and also dishes you rarely see in the UK. Spain and Italy well ahead these days though.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
The secret is that everyone important got a bit of what they wanted
1) The MPs who were being threatened neither voted for or against anything 2) The SNP got to say Evul English 3) The Labour Party got to say "No Splits" 4) The Conservative Party got to say "No Splits"
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges I spoke to an MP yesterday who told me he had weighed up his own physical safety when deciding on how to vote on yesterday’s Gaza motion. We have crossed a line now. We are not a properly functioning democracy if this is a factor in how our elected representatives act.
I was looking forward so much to a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer as part of a trip round the Rockies. Turned out to be well down the pecking order of memorable highlights of that last holiday before Mrs BJ became a paraplegic.
Banff Gondola, the Athabasca Glacier, Lake Louise, Vancouver, Victoria Island all rank above the Jasper to Vancouver train ride, so average.
Victoria Island ? That was adventurous! I take it you mean Victoria on Vancouver Island?
The Tories were happy to support Bozo and the illegal prorogation of parliament so can stfu and stick their hysterical outrage where the sun doesn’t shine .
Are we about to get a new speaker partly elected by dozens and dozens of SNP and Tory MPs who will literally not be there in six or twelve months time?
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
Presumably there was nothing vaguely pertaining to Scotland that they could have chosen to pursue?
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
Can a Speaker be ousted? Peter BarnesBBC political analyst
As calls for a resignation mount, it's worth considering whether it's even possible for a Speaker to get sacked. There’s not a formal mechanism in place for MPs to oust the Speaker from their role. Erskine May, the "bible" of parliamentary procedure, explains that a Speaker is elected, or re-elected, by MPs after every general election. And “thus elected and approved, continues in that office during the whole Parliament, unless in the meantime they resign or are removed by death”. However, there is a precedent for a Speaker being pressured into a resignation. Michael Martin, who served in the role from 2000 to 2009, stepped down after criticism of his handling of the MPs’ expenses scandal. He said his reason for standing down was to maintain the unity of the House of Commons.
I was looking forward so much to a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer as part of a trip round the Rockies. Turned out to be well down the pecking order of memorable highlights of that last holiday before Mrs BJ became a paraplegic.
Banff Gondola, the Athabasca Glacier, Lake Louise, Vancouver, Victoria Island all rank above the Jasper to Vancouver train ride, so average.
Victoria Island ? That was adventurous! I take it you mean Victoria on Vancouver Island?
Aye thats it had some wonderful seafood meal in Victoria, did a seaplane trip, and visited Butchart Gardens which were amazing
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
The secret is that everyone important got a bit of what they wanted
1) The MPs who were being threatened neither voted for or against anything 2) The SNP got to say Evul English 3) The Labour Party got to say "No Splits" 4) The Conservative Party got to say "No Splits"
Why and by whom were MPs being threatened. Seems extraordinary.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Out of a fear of reprisals on MPs. But here's another point, you don't just change parliamentary procedure after hearing one captain with his own interests for fear of the mob.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Depends what you believe the shenanigans were. Some are claiming Starmer threatened to boot him after the next election. Others claim he got a bunch of representation from MPs who were worried about their safety if they couldn’t vote for a motion that threaded the needle between the two positions.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
Are we about to get a new speaker partly elected by dozens and dozens of SNP and Tory MPs who will literally not be there in six or twelve months time?
FFS.
Only if Hoyle chooses to resign
There’s not a formal mechanism in place for MPs to oust the Speaker from their role.
Erskine May, the "bible" of parliamentary procedure, explains that a Speaker is elected, or re-elected, by MPs after every general election.
And “thus elected and approved, continues in that office during the whole Parliament, unless in the meantime they resign or are removed by death”.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges I spoke to an MP yesterday who told me he had weighed up his own physical safety when deciding on how to vote on yesterday’s Gaza motion. We have crossed a line now. We are not a properly functioning democracy if this is a factor in how our elected representatives act.
No no, the REAL issue is how SKS launched the Gazan genocide and then bullied the speaker so that the Commons shamefully passed a motion calling for an immediate ceasefire.
The utter shit. At least we now have 54 signatures on the petition to get Starmer to resign.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
Honestly, the seat-only option at £55 is great, too. It's basically a first class seat that reclines a bit, and if you can sleep on a plane you'll be fine. Bring an eyemask and earplugs!
Such a pity they've banned alcohol - but it's still available on the Night Riviera to Cornwall...
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
Presumably there was nothing vaguely pertaining to Scotland that they could have chosen to pursue?
Why should they have to? It's a perfectly legitimate topic of debate at Westminster.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Depends what you believe the shenanigans were. Some are claiming Starmer threatened to boot him after the next election. Others claim he got a bunch of representation from MPs who were worried about their safety if they couldn’t vote for a motion that threaded the needle between the two positions.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
The biggest issue appeared to be the queues to get back to the UK. The UK border guards are a miserable, surly lot.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
The secret is that everyone important got a bit of what they wanted
1) The MPs who were being threatened neither voted for or against anything 2) The SNP got to say Evul English 3) The Labour Party got to say "No Splits" 4) The Conservative Party got to say "No Splits"
Why and by whom were MPs being threatened. Seems extraordinary.
On social media often with similar threats posted through their family home (wish I was kidding but a number of MPs are reporting the latter).
You then have an SNP motion designed to create problems, a Tory spoiler amendment designed to create problems in the other direction (upsetting a lot of Muslims) and a compromise motion that removes the inflammatory language in the SNP motion that the speaker couldn’t present because of a Tory party spoiler amendment
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
But the French playing silly buggers at the border happened before 2016 too, didn't it? It's hardly new.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
Presumably there was nothing vaguely pertaining to Scotland that they could have chosen to pursue?
Why should they have to? It's a perfectly legitimate topic of debate at Westminster.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
Honestly, the seat-only option at £55 is great, too. It's basically a first class seat that reclines a bit, and if you can sleep on a plane you'll be fine. Bring an eyemask and earplugs!
Such a pity they've banned alcohol - but it's still available on the Night Riviera to Cornwall...
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Depends what you believe the shenanigans were. Some are claiming Starmer threatened to boot him after the next election. Others claim he got a bunch of representation from MPs who were worried about their safety if they couldn’t vote for a motion that threaded the needle between the two positions.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
Politics, bloody hell.
As malmsbury pointed out, for all the heat and fury, almost everyone got they wanted and Hoyle might get canned for it. Politics.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
Honestly, the seat-only option at £55 is great, too. It's basically a first class seat that reclines a bit, and if you can sleep on a plane you'll be fine. Bring an eyemask and earplugs!
Such a pity they've banned alcohol - but it's still available on the Night Riviera to Cornwall...
Are you perhaps confusing it with the alcohol ban on Scotrail services?
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
They have only three parliamentary days and wasted an entire one on this?
How dare they decide what they want to pursue in their allotted time, far better to let Sir Keir and Sir Lindsay decide for them.
Presumably there was nothing vaguely pertaining to Scotland that they could have chosen to pursue?
Why should they have to? It's a perfectly legitimate topic of debate at Westminster.
Of course, entirely up to them.
Foreign policy and defence should be the primary concern of a UK parliament. Almost everything else can be devolved.
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
I’ve never had problems with French border staff. They’ve allowed me to use staff only lanes to ensure I reached flights and last time waited at the gate as I bordered plane 2 as the door was closing to stamp my passport and allow me on to the flight
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
Honestly, the seat-only option at £55 is great, too. It's basically a first class seat that reclines a bit, and if you can sleep on a plane you'll be fine. Bring an eyemask and earplugs!
Such a pity they've banned alcohol - but it's still available on the Night Riviera to Cornwall...
Banned to buy or drink?
It was banned during Covid but I’m sure it’s back now?
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
But the French playing silly buggers at the border happened before 2016 too, didn't it? It's hardly new.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Depends what you believe the shenanigans were. Some are claiming Starmer threatened to boot him after the next election. Others claim he got a bunch of representation from MPs who were worried about their safety if they couldn’t vote for a motion that threaded the needle between the two positions.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
I get that the SNP motion was uncomfortable for Starmer who short months ago was saying it was legitimate for Israel to cut off food and water supplies to Gazan civilians (aka collective punishment), but if the Labour Scottish sub branch was passing motions last weekend that specifically mentioned collective punishment, how was sticking to the line they generally have for the last few months 'bad faith' on the part of the SNP?
Another issue with Hoyle is that he too often lets the Gov't walk all over him, producing surly threats about how they really shouldn't do it but not doing much about it.
I mean that's separate to yesterday but I have noted it.
For all my criticism I think he's a genuinely nice man that has the right motivations and comes from a good place. But he got it catastrophically wrong yesterday.
What exactly did Hoyle do, again? It is an outrage and I am outraged but I can't quite pin down what he did.
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
Went against the advice of his top clerk, see Tom Goldsmith's letter on X (Other social media is available) for procedure.
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
OK thanks makes sense. So he f**ked the SNP by privileging Lab and everyone disliked that.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
Depends what you believe the shenanigans were. Some are claiming Starmer threatened to boot him after the next election. Others claim he got a bunch of representation from MPs who were worried about their safety if they couldn’t vote for a motion that threaded the needle between the two positions.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
I get that the SNP motion was uncomfortable for Starmer who short months ago was saying it was legitimate for Israel to cut off food and water supplies to Gazan civilians (aka collective punishment), but if the Labour Scottish sub branch was passing motions last weekend that specifically mentioned collective punishment, how was sticking to the line they generally have for the last few months 'bad faith' on the part of the SNP?
Because the SNP for one do not welcome their new wannabe overlord?
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
I’ve never had problems with French border staff. They’ve allowed me to use staff only lanes to ensure I reached flights and last time waited at the gate as I bordered plane 2 as the door was closing to stamp my passport and allow me on to the flight
I've read nothing to suggest the LDs are putting any effort into winning the Rochdale by election or are garnering support. The only LD news I've read is of an LD councillor being suspended for campaigning for the suspended Labour candidate! Much to my surprise I have managed to cash out my £20 bet at 50.0 on the LDs winning Rochdale. £1.20 profit. More importantly £20 back that I thought I would never see again. Now if the LDs go on and win I will not be happy!
I've never been that far north and it'd be a great excuse to ride the amazingly scenic Far North Line.
Might even combine with a ferry trip to the Orkneys.
The north coast of Britain is stunning. Make the trip.
Really tempting to take Friday off and just disappear tonight and catch the sleep train to Inverness. I'd be there by lunchtime tomorrow.
Trouble is the Caledonian sells out well in advance, and I'm not sure my wife would welcome me abandoning her with two young kids all weekend.
When I was 17 my dad saved tokens from Sainsburys and bought cheap ba tickets from Gatwick to Inverness. We spent the weekend touring the north coast to Skye and flew back from Glasgow.
Worth it!
Amazing!
I'm such a train nerd. I'd love to do the full Caledonian sleeper.
Expensive though.
Ha. I’ve just done it and several other lines. Took the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness ten days ago and it was wonderful. Coming over the Drumochter Pass when there was still snow was magical.
Then last Friday I took the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line which is absolutely stunning. I was lucky with the weather. Just breathtakingly beautiful.
On Sunday I took the West Highland line from Fort William to Glasgow which … well the superlatives simply roll on and on.
I took the Caledonian Sleeper to FW not long ago too and if anything that was even lovelier, although FW doesn’t compare as a town to the city of Inverness.
Three of the world’s most scenic railway journeys right there, right here, on our doorstep.
Highly highly recommended.
xx
The Inverness to fort William line is stunning
Yet few people know of it. Mad
Incredibly the DK Guide to Scotland barely mentions that line or the other three I’ve mentioned. All of which would get a double page spread if they were anywhere else on the planet. Utterly bizarre.
The West Highland Line has several times been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.
Thoroughly recommend these routes. There’s something quite magical about sleeping out of Euston, or indeed hitting on board bar @Leon and waking up to sunrise in the Highlands.
One of my favourite things about the Inverness Kyle line is that there’s a station called “Muir of Ord”
I’ve been on that line a couple of times and I always faintly hope that the station - being so remote - is literally named after one guy, Muir, from Ord, who stands there in the middle of the forest and occasionally gets on the train
To those who complain about the Caledonian Sleeper being pricey, well … maybe … but ...
For c. £200 Club Class you're getting a night’s accommodation with breakfast + the travel itself in some style + the views
I had a solid 7 hours’ sleep with lovely sheets and duvet. Took my shower in my room. Was served my proper coffee and Scottish porridge and watched a snowy sunrise over the Cairngorms, to arrive in beautiful Inverness. A while back on the other side I woke in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs in time for the climb up across stunning Rannoch Moor.
Worth every penny of £200 in my book.
I had to go to Aberdeen for the RSS Conference. I wanted to go by Caledonian Sleeper but it sold out the week I went to the travel agent. I went by plane instead. It wasn't as nice. The faff involved in front door to taxi to airport to flight to airport to taxi to hotel is not good. I hate trains but sleepers look much more fun and yes, 200 pounds would have been worth it.
How can anyone - especially a PBer - “hate trains”?
😶
I get that an early morning commute from Stockport to Walsall might not be as romantic as the trans Siberian but still - trains!
Agree. I find I get bored driving after about 100 miles, particularly if on a motorway and I hate the hassle of flying. I have done 2 trips around Italy by train and 1 across Portugal and my regular French cycle trip involves a lot of trains (10 for the last trip) to get to/from our start/end points. They are all really enjoyable and the European trains tend to be on time and very cheap.
French trains are great. They all gripe about the TER but compared to Northern Rail at its worst they’re almost flawless.
Can someone please do something about the wifi on the Eurostar, while we are about it.
I’m on the Eurostar in april. Is it still suffering hideous queues at the termini?
They are better. STP is now ok (used to be queuing round the corner) and they stand there helpfully with the train number and time.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
The French border playing silly buggers? You amaze me. Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
I believe we asked them to take back control. So they did.
I’ve never had problems with French border staff. They’ve allowed me to use staff only lanes to ensure I reached flights and last time waited at the gate as I bordered plane 2 as the door was closing to stamp my passport and allow me on to the flight
I haven't flown to France for years. I do know that there is no more lengthy queue than an Air France queue. Or wasn't.
Comments
So for a weekend:
1: Wick
2: Croydon
3: Rochdale
4: Kettering
5: PT
To live
1: Rochdale
2: Kettering
3: Croydon
4: PT
5: Wick
So I worked with their PR company and they were adamant they needed lots of warning as to dates as they tended to sell out all desirable slots months in advance - especially on the fort William route which is the best by far
Unfortunately it's not direct from London, you have to Eurostar to Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam first (though that's hardly a big deal).
Another limitation is that the increase isn't quite as impressive compared with pre-COVID figures. However, given the increase in WFH and reduction in commutes to the business parks in the west, it's still an impressive return.
I think it was irresponsible of the SNP to play Parliamentary games with an issue which has the potential to rile people up to such an extent. Politicians have a responsibility to lead the country towards peaceful compromise, not to provoke violent discord.
Why bother wasting time on votes and motions that can be ignored and don't mean anything?
Why do opposition parties bother with them?
If I was an MP, I'd just see it as a day off - go and do some better constituency work instead.
If none of the proposals were satisfactory, he should have given a solemn speech at the start about the dangers and threats facing MPs. And gone ahead according to procedure.
Instead, he just did Starmer's bidding. And potentially placed MPs of other parties in danger.
And the noise of a train can be vaguely like a regular heartbeat
And if all else fails drink a bottle of red and pop a Xanax
Then onto the train south, a Class 304 EMU with a bouncy ride and deeply spring seats which almost bounced you onto the floor on the rougher bits of track. Train was Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke, then went on to Birmingham New Street, then to Walsall. Slow, but one train to get to Bescot and then Duddeston for a mooch around the loco sheds.
I seem to remember that 4 buses plus a platform ticket at Stocktport (I know, I know) was 60p. And I did that when I was 12!
It is a valid point that nobody voted for anything yesterday
The early morning trip south from Stockport is one of the great train journeys. The sun rising over the Pennines to your east, mist hanging low on the fields of Cheshire; Bosley Cloud marking the start of the Midlands... You get to see the house I grew up in shortly after you slide out of Stockport, which is a personal benefit.
So they can say they didn't vote against *anything*
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/west-coast-railways-exemption-ruling-announced.html
One of the most shameful days in Parliament with nobody getting any credit
It was meant to take, I dunno, 7 hours or something? In the end it took about 20 - no joke -‘coz it kept stopping for freight trains or just stopping
The seats were rock hard. The landscape was relentlessly grim - the poor bits of upper Midwest in late winter. It was cold. There was NO catering
But even then it had a kind of romance. A train across America! Across the frontier into Canada! Signs in French!
You enabled Genocide (and threatened the Speaker)
Chant doesnt quite work now
That pesky SKS!
Also the tourist train to Macchu piccu (sp?). Yes it’s touristy but it is made of GLASS
There must be a way to make it work because it is so special
Very nuanced front page of the Graun today illustrating whatever point it was.
To quote my politically interested father “no one seems to understand these procedures and they seem very silly”.
Banff Gondola, the Athabasca Glacier, Lake Louise, Vancouver, Victoria Island all rank above the Jasper to Vancouver train ride, so average.
The absurdity of the two customs gates persists (WHICH YOU VOTED FOR, ahem) so it can be luck of the draw at Gare du Nord.
Yes, I voted for it. Yes, there was a price we had to pay
But as a result of Brexit we have now reduced inwards migration to just 1.8 million Somalians a month and I for one am more than happy
https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/61908
Only took soundings from Starmer prior to going against the advice of Goldsmith.
On one of only 3 out of 20 parliamentary days per session per sitting allocated to the SNP, the above actions effectively high-jacking the day away from them.
Everything followed from that really.
Why did he do it and what did the Cons want, for example.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1760372442206449874
I take it you mean Victoria on Vancouver Island?
PS For what it's worth we just had three nights in Paris - in contrast to Eurostar, the dining was very good on each night. We tried a 'cheap' bistro, a mid-range restaurant, and a Michelin-starred restaurant. All great food within their class and surprisingly excellent service. Expensive though - London-level prices.
So Leon's sort of right from our quick sortie: France (Paris) is no longer providing outstanding food value imo - those days are gone - but solid fare and also dishes you rarely see in the UK. Spain and Italy well ahead these days though.
Thanks to whoever recommended Benoit btw.
1) The MPs who were being threatened neither voted for or against anything
2) The SNP got to say Evul English
3) The Labour Party got to say "No Splits"
4) The Conservative Party got to say "No Splits"
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
I spoke to an MP yesterday who told me he had weighed up his own physical safety when deciding on how to vote on yesterday’s Gaza motion. We have crossed a line now. We are not a properly functioning democracy if this is a factor in how our elected representatives act.
God knows why. It seems fine. Here are two results I got yesterday
It did this again and again and eventually admitted this
FFS.
Whenever major border problems with the EU are raised, it always seems to be with France. I'm not a massive European traveller, but both of my experiences of leaving/entering the EU since Britain left the EU have been no less seamless than they were when we were a member. But neither of these have involved France.
We're going to Europe in August - the plan is to get the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, spend time in the low countries, then come back through the tunnel. I have some misgivings about including France in my itinerary because of the potential for silly buggers being played - but it will save us about £250 if we can suck up that risk.
Peter BarnesBBC political analyst
As calls for a resignation mount, it's worth considering whether it's even possible for a Speaker to get sacked.
There’s not a formal mechanism in place for MPs to oust the Speaker from their role.
Erskine May, the "bible" of parliamentary procedure, explains that a Speaker is elected, or re-elected, by MPs after every general election.
And “thus elected and approved, continues in that office during the whole Parliament, unless in the meantime they resign or are removed by death”.
However, there is a precedent for a Speaker being pressured into a resignation.
Michael Martin, who served in the role from 2000 to 2009, stepped down after criticism of his handling of the MPs’ expenses scandal. He said his reason for standing down was to maintain the unity of the House of Commons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68349957
That last sentence made me laugh.
Those AIAnon sessions taking effect.
https://twitter.com/Dannythefink
Finkelstein is incandescent about this.
Had the Tories not submitted what was effectively a wrecking amendment then the vote would have been between Labour and SNP versions of the motion. Normally (for some reason of ancient and silly precedent) only the government amendment would be selected. Hoyle chose to hear both amendments, his reasoning being it was a matter of conscience of some gravity. The SNP are upset because they didn’t get to vote on their motion (legit, although it was an obviously bad faith motion in the first place). The Tories are upset because they had procedural jujitsu pulled on them and they’re the only ones allowed to do that dammit.
The Tories withdrew their motion because there were enough Tory rebels to pass Labour’s amendment and then they and the SNP stormed out.
There’s not a formal mechanism in place for MPs to oust the Speaker from their role.
Erskine May, the "bible" of parliamentary procedure, explains that a Speaker is elected, or re-elected, by MPs after every general election.
And “thus elected and approved, continues in that office during the whole Parliament, unless in the meantime they resign or are removed by death”.
The utter shit. At least we now have 54 signatures on the petition to get Starmer to resign.
Such a pity they've banned alcohol - but it's still available on the Night Riviera to Cornwall...
You then have an SNP motion designed to create problems, a Tory spoiler amendment designed to create problems in the other direction (upsetting a lot of Muslims) and a compromise motion that removes the inflammatory language in the SNP motion that the speaker couldn’t present because of a Tory party spoiler amendment
“Google to pause Gemini AI model's image generation of people
Alphabet's Google said on Thursday it is pausing AI model Gemini's image generation of people and will release an improved version soon.”
They’ve managed to create a racist AI (honestly ok showing you some of the milder examples). But it’s reverse racism - quite a hoo-hah on social media
https://www.sleeper.scot/menu-overview/menus/seated-coach-menu/
I mean that's separate to yesterday but I have noted it.
For all my criticism I think he's a genuinely nice man that has the right motivations and comes from a good place. But he got it catastrophically wrong yesterday.