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  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

    Thinking about it, I don't remember the Queen being seen in public since the floods started. Curious.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited February 2014

    I thought the letter was sent in 2007? That's what the Beeb reported:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26342465

    Yes, the letter in the Downey case was sent on 20 July 2007, on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the bombing. The key question now (as I see it) is whether the NIO continued to send such letters to other "on the runs" after the devolution of policing and justice in 2010. Robinson and Long claim it did, without the knowledge of the Northern Ireland Executive. According to the Attorney General, 38 such letters have been sent since the current government came to office.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014
    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
  • @Life_ina_market_town - Ah, right, thanks.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Broader together"?
  • Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Fat-bottomed girls you make the rocking world go round"

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited February 2014
    AveryLP said:

    Right.

    And it also appears to conflict with what Theresa Villiers was saying yesterday.

    Oh dear.

    Let's suppose that the NIO did continue to send such letters after the devolution of policing and justice, as claimed. As we know, it says it was merely communicating a decision of the independent prosecution authorities. The question must arise, did it claim to be communicating a decision of the Attorney General for England and Wales or the Attorney General for Northern Ireland? If the former, then the assurances would have been seen quite rightly as worthless. If the latter, then one would assume Mr Larkin has questions to answer if he knew about the practice and didn't tell fellow members of the NI Executive.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

    Thinking about it, I don't remember the Queen being seen in public since the floods started. Curious.
    We need to open a judicial inquiry into her whereabouts.

    Charles appears to have been getting a little too keen lately.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Broader together"?
    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.
  • Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

    Thinking about it, I don't remember the Queen being seen in public since the floods started. Curious.
    Wetter together?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Anorak said:

    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Broader together"?
    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.
    2008-9 data. Perhaps IDS can add obesity to the list of moral concerns stemming from an, erm, bloated welfare budget.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,149
    edited February 2014
    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014
    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Broader together"?
    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.
    2008-9 data. Perhaps IDS can add obesity to the list of moral concerns stemming from an, erm, bloated welfare budget.
    Good point. Crappy, high calorie food is cheaper than more nutritious fare. 60 pieces of fried chicken for a fiver:

    http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/iceland-60-piece-crispy-chicken-platter-840g/p/54158

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.

    The fact that we are forcing obese poor people to go hungry is a permanent stain on our country.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Russian tanks moving into the Ukraine would be a sign of weakness rather than strength. A bit of Sabre rattling is one thing, but sparking up Ukranian nationalism is another, even Russophile Ukranians are unlikely to welcome tanks. The Better Together (Ukraine section) campaign should not work via project fear.
    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Right on cue,Salmond plays his ace,"Why should Scotland let itself be ruled by the Tories?"

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2014/02/alex-salmond-why-should-scotland-let-itself-be-ruled-tories
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2014

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv


    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    Where does one even begin with that statement.


  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    I thought the letter was sent in 2007? That's what the Beeb reported:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26342465

    Yes, the letter in the Downey case was sent on 20 July 2007, on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the bombing. The key question now (as I see it) is whether the NIO continued to send such letters to other "on the runs" after the devolution of policing and justice in 2010. Robinson and Long claim it did, without the knowledge of the Northern Ireland Executive. According to the Attorney General, 38 such letters have been sent since the current government came to office.
    If that's correct, that is a considerable scandal, and I think Theresa Villiers' position will be untenable.

    I have to say that I find the whole business of sending out these letters, in secret, without the agreement of the other parties to the negotations, to be disgraceful.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Thats as maybe, but you do not have to eat the sixty pieces at one sitting!
    Anorak said:

    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    Polruan said:

    Anorak said:

    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

    In not unrelated news, the UK has more fat women than anywhere in Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351

    And that's based on English data. Including data from North o' the Border would doubtless make the situation even worse.
    "Broader together"?
    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.
    2008-9 data. Perhaps IDS can add obesity to the list of moral concerns stemming from an, erm, bloated welfare budget.
    Good point. Crappy, high calorie food is cheaper than more nutritious fare. 60 pieces of fried chicken for a fiver:

    http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/iceland-60-piece-crispy-chicken-platter-840g/p/54158

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
  • @Isam

    Because I don't know how to respond to it. What is your problem?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv


    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    Where does one even begin with that statement.


    How can WoS be sure it is not Pork with the refresh button on his keyboard caught between his toes?

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014

    Thats as maybe, but you do not have to eat the sixty pieces at one sitting!

    You say that, but it's 'oh, just one more then' and before you know it there are crumbs on an empty plate and you're full of heartburn and self-loathing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Thanks LIMAT and Antifrank for your answers re. NI.

    Do we know if such letters were sent to loyalist criminals, or just republican ones?

    On instinct I am really nervous about such letters. But are there similar examples in the non-paramilitary world? Could I, if I had been suspected of a crime, receive such a letter of assurance?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    @Isam

    Because I don't know how to respond to it. What is your problem?

    Its like replying to a email, a 3 year old could do it

    Why are you even on here? I thought you were leaving?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    You are seeing it from a Western European perspective.

    In Russia and the former Slavic Soviet states tanks come and go. It is the politicians which change.

    Russian tanks moving into the Ukraine would be a sign of weakness rather than strength. A bit of Sabre rattling is one thing, but sparking up Ukranian nationalism is another, even Russophile Ukranians are unlikely to welcome tanks. The Better Together (Ukraine section) campaign should not work via project fear.

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    AveryLP said:

    Ben

    Once again you are wrong by any objective and independent assessment on almost all the statements you present as 'fact'.

    1. Plan A

    Public Sector Net Borrowing           
    Forecasts vs. Outturns
    --------------------------------------
    2010 Outturn Diff.
    £bn £bn £bn
    2009/10 157
    2010/11 149 139 -10
    2011/12 116 117 + 1
    2012/13 89 80 - 9
    2013/14 60
    As you can see from ONS published figures, George Osborne is cumulatively 18 billion under his 2010 forecasts for Public Sector Net Borrowing.

    A yellow box! Yes!

    If we take your metrics here (which no one else does btw) looks like George is cumulatively 9bn under. The difference column is already cumulative.

    Fail.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Thanks LIMAT and Antifrank for your answers re. NI.

    Do we know if such letters were sent to loyalist criminals, or just republican ones?

    On instinct I am really nervous about such letters. But are there similar examples in the non-paramilitary world? Could I, if I had been suspected of a crime, receive such a letter of assurance?

    *Suspected* criminals.
  • Sean_F said:

    If that's correct, that is a considerable scandal, and I think Theresa Villiers' position will be untenable.

    I have to say that I find the whole business of sending out these letters, in secret, without the agreement of the other parties to the negotations, to be disgraceful.

    Betting wise, Villiers (10/1 with PP) and Paterson (12/1 with PP) could be affected. On the other hand, the blame may lie with the Northern Ireland AG, John Larkin, who is somewhat of a loose cannon to put it mildly.
  • Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.


  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    isam said:

    @Isam

    Because I don't know how to respond to it. What is your problem?

    Its like replying to a email, a 3 year old could do it

    Why are you even on here? I thought you were leaving?
    One day they'll make a film about TLBS departure - 'The Longest Flounce'.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    Ben

    Once again you are wrong by any objective and independent assessment on almost all the statements you present as 'fact'.

    1. Plan A

    Public Sector Net Borrowing           
    Forecasts vs. Outturns
    --------------------------------------
    2010 Outturn Diff.
    £bn £bn £bn
    2009/10 157
    2010/11 149 139 -10
    2011/12 116 117 + 1
    2012/13 89 80 - 9
    2013/14 60
    As you can see from ONS published figures, George Osborne is cumulatively 18 billion under his 2010 forecasts for Public Sector Net Borrowing.

    A yellow box! Yes!

    If we take your metrics here (which no one else does btw) looks like George is cumulatively 9bn under. The difference column is already cumulative.

    Fail.
    They are 'borrowing' not debt figures, Ben.

    I put the word borrowing into single inverted commas as they are published by the ONS under the supervision of Sir Andrew Dilnot.

    I may not believe them but it seems plenty do.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Perhaps they have grown accustomed to, and develop a fondness for, the smack of firm government. Other countries have moved on, and even Putin has had to temper his wilder rhetoric.
    AveryLP said:

    You are seeing it from a Western European perspective.

    In Russia and the former Slavic Soviet states tanks come and go. It is the politicians which change.


    Russian tanks moving into the Ukraine would be a sign of weakness rather than strength. A bit of Sabre rattling is one thing, but sparking up Ukranian nationalism is another, even Russophile Ukranians are unlikely to welcome tanks. The Better Together (Ukraine section) campaign should not work via project fear.

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.
    That is some pretty impressive and rapid fundraising, I admit.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2014

    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.


    That was mine Divvie - I'm all for Independence. Seriously, I am. And the full, stand on your own feet kind, rather than the wishy washy DevoMax that Alex really wants.

    I see Toadface Salmond's naughty aide has made it into the Daily Harman now.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568325/Alex-Salmond-aide-six-month-affair-axed-party-worker-used-public-money-pay-cheated-wife.html
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    On Topic (I know, but someone has to) the Labour percentage in Yougov looks quite static which is also repeated in the poll of polls since April last year. In reality, so has the Tory percentage since last August.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    Looks like the positive news on the economy is not doing what many had hoped.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Serious question Does anyone know what EdM and the entire Labour Party intend doing to stop AGW..what actual steps they will take..and have they told the rest of the nations in the world..
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    taffys said:

    Austerity and food banks don't seem to have had a slimming influence, curiously.

    The fact that we are forcing obese poor people to go hungry is a permanent stain on our country.

    As stated upthread, it's based on 2008/9 data. It's Labour obesity. Under IDS's magnificent reforms, foodbanks are now attended only by svelte, bright-eyed paupers.
  • Too late to make the top five, but I wonder if we might try for position number 6?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26343700

    The 'First!' posts should be the clincher.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2014
    Longevity is not the object of existence. A life of the simple pleasures of fried chicken, irn-bru and ciggies while watching Britains got talent and surfing "wings over scotland" is not a life without its own enjoyments.
    Anorak said:

    Thats as maybe, but you do not have to eat the sixty pieces at one sitting!

    You say that, but it's 'oh, just one more then' and before you know it there are crumbs on an empty plate and you're full of heartburn and self-loathing.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    I've spoken to Putin's supporters (and supporters of the strong hand) in Russia and they mostly said the same thing: they characterise the choice as between power in the Kremlin, or power in the hands of the oligarchs in London or Paris. They are more confident of Putin using that power to the public good than any of the hated oligarchs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Grandiose said:

    Thanks LIMAT and Antifrank for your answers re. NI.

    Do we know if such letters were sent to loyalist criminals, or just republican ones?

    On instinct I am really nervous about such letters. But are there similar examples in the non-paramilitary world? Could I, if I had been suspected of a crime, receive such a letter of assurance?

    *Suspected* criminals.
    Good point. On that note, did Cameron make a similar mistake during his reply at PMQs?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Too late to make the top five, but I wonder if we might try for position number 6?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26343700

    The 'First!' posts should be the clincher.

    Is there an echo in here?
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    FPT I've never played Diplomacy with any PBers, nor - with my abysmal record - do I play much outside.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.
    That is some pretty impressive and rapid fundraising, I admit.
    Not least also because they've used previous funders to commission their own crowdsourced opinion polling from approved polling companies, and they asked/published questions and answers which other media outlets do not.

    As I recall, it drove the No campaign parties, mainstream commercial media and BBC into a dilemma of whether to ignore them or to condemn them as a bunch of cybernats. Not just for political reasons either, judging from the tone of some of the media coverage which evidently saw it as an outrageous attack on their owners' commercial prerogatives.

    I don't know if it was discussed here on PB at the time (last summer/autumn), but I see it as a very interesting development. It is, of course, relevant to any line of opinion which sees itself as not properly represented in the mainstream media.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,149
    edited February 2014

    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.


    That was mine Divvie - I'm all for Independence.

    I see Toadface Salmond's naughty aide has made it into the Daily Harman now.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568325/Alex-Salmond-aide-six-month-affair-axed-party-worker-used-public-money-pay-cheated-wife.html
    Poor old SLABs' heads will be spinning - awful Daily Mail slander upon poor Ed's dead dad, wonderful Daily Mail exposing evil Cybernats, awful Daily Mail PIE-ing Harriet, wonderful Daily Mail poking into private life of Nat pol.

  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Too late to make the top five, but I wonder if we might try for position number 6?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26343700

    The 'First!' posts should be the clincher.

    Is there an echo in here?
    This might be my chance to "proudly" mention I made the front page of reddit not long ago.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014

    Longevity is not the object of existence. A life of the simple pleasures of fried chicken, irn-bru and ciggies while watching Britains got talent and surfing "wings over scotland" is not a life without its own enjoyments.

    Anorak said:

    Thats as maybe, but you do not have to eat the sixty pieces at one sitting!

    You say that, but it's 'oh, just one more then' and before you know it there are crumbs on an empty plate and you're full of heartburn and self-loathing.
    Also good news for the countries pension liabilities. It should be seen as a civic duty to live fast (or veeeeeery slow in this case) and die young.

    Logan's Run with Sky Sports.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Grandiose said:

    Too late to make the top five, but I wonder if we might try for position number 6?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26343700

    The 'First!' posts should be the clincher.

    Is there an echo in here?
    This might be my chance to "proudly" mention I made the front page of reddit not long ago.
    Just gone on to it. There are some wack jobs out there.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2014
    Err! I think that Putin is quite friendly with the oligarchs, it is that whole culture of power and patronage that the Ukranians want away from. The EU may not be the best avenue away from such things to a more experienced public.
    Grandiose said:

    I've spoken toin's supporters (and supporters of the strong hand) in Russia and they mostly said the same thing: they characterise the choice as between power in the Kremlin, or power in the hands of the oligarchs in London or Paris. They are more confident of Putin using that power to the public good than any of the hated oligarchs.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Dr. Sox

    Don't worry about the rhetoric (although I notice Sergei Lavrov's tone is dangerously silky and smooth).

    The laws in Russia are very harsh.

    But the compensating factor is that you do not always need to obey them.


    Although I realise that such conflicts can quickly escalate into inter ethnic strife this is not the cause of the current crisis.

    Corrupt government and a failing economy are the real problems. I really don't think there is any appetite for Russian on Ukrainian violence. OK, the lunatic fringes of society will posture and punch but the real players know that partition or civil war will never be a solution.

    Maybe that is why having a Heavyweight World Boxing Champion as President might be the pacificist and non adversarial solution everyone is hoping for.

    Slavs love their little ironies.

    Perhaps they have grown accustomed to, and develop a fondness for, the smack of firm government. Other countries have moved on, and even Putin has had to temper his wilder rhetoric.


    AveryLP said:

    You are seeing it from a Western European perspective.

    In Russia and the former Slavic Soviet states tanks come and go. It is the politicians which change.


    Russian tanks moving into the Ukraine would be a sign of weakness rather than strength. A bit of Sabre rattling is one thing, but sparking up Ukranian nationalism is another, even Russophile Ukranians are unlikely to welcome tanks. The Better Together (Ukraine section) campaign should not work via project fear.

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Whether Russian tanks roll into the Ukraine or not is fairly irrelevant to the future outcome of the crisis.

    Errrm you sure about that ?

    Yes.

    It would be as much a threat to sovereignty of The Ukraine as the Gurkhas sandbagging in Wraysbury was to the seat of the monarchy in Windsor Castle.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Err! I think that Putin is quite friendly with the oligarcs, it is that whole culture of power and patronage that the Ukranians want away from these things though!. The EU may not be the best avenue away fr

    Grandiose said:

    I've spoken to Putin's supporters (and supporters of the strong hand) in Russia and they mostly said the same thing: they characterise the choice as between power in the Kremlin, or power in the hands of the oligarchs in London or Paris. They are more confident of Putin using that power to the public good than any of the hated oligarchs.

    There are bad (booooo!) oligarchs and good (yay!) oligarchs. The sole criteria is whether you support a certain Mr Putin or not.
  • Julian Druker ‏@Julian5News 42 secs
    Michael Adebolajo's defence lawyer says a full life sentence can 'never be justified' #woolwich
    Mr Gottlieb clearly thinks that the decision of a special constitution of the Court of Appeal, including the Lord Chief, the President of the QBD, and the Vice President of the Court of Appeal, in McLoughlin & Newell is obiter.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Anorak said:

    I'm sure PBers (even the ones WoS categorised de facto as 'slack-jawed halfwits') would like to contribute to the funding of their favourite Somerset-based Cybernat, Wings Over Scotland. You'll have to hurry though, they've already made over £33k of their £53k target in under 4 hours.

    http://tinyurl.com/ojgxzwv

    Why bother.

    'In the last 12 months Wings Over Scotland has been visited by 959,086 unique readers - almost a quarter of the entire Scottish electorate.'

    And?
    And....they're still behind in the polls?
    And....they still have no real solution to the currency issue?
    And....if Salmond spins any faster they can use him to drill for oil?
    I wonder how many of those 959,086 have a vote?
    ' Anonymous
    8 minutes ago
    £504 – Saviours'

    Well played, TheWatcher, particularly after your ire at the '**** off Dishface' outrage.


    That was mine Divvie - I'm all for Independence.

    I see Toadface Salmond's naughty aide has made it into the Daily Harman now.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568325/Alex-Salmond-aide-six-month-affair-axed-party-worker-used-public-money-pay-cheated-wife.html
    Poor old SLABs' heads will be spinning - awful Daily Mail slander upon poor Ed's dead dad, wonderful Daily Mail exposing evil Cybernats, awful Daily Mail PIE-ing Harriet, wonderful Daily Mail poking into private life of Nat pol.

    One hopes the Scottish Daily Mail continues to do so. Unless, of course, you'd be happier if the fruitier activities of your politicians and aides went unchallenged.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Jacob Rees Mogg heads deep into deepest red territory !

    http://www.channel4.com/news/rees-mogg-jacob-south-shields-tory-conservative
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Anorak said:

    Err! I think that Putin is quite friendly with the oligarcs, it is that whole culture of power and patronage that the Ukranians want away from these things though!. The EU may not be the best avenue away fr

    Grandiose said:

    I've spoken to Putin's supporters (and supporters of the strong hand) in Russia and they mostly said the same thing: they characterise the choice as between power in the Kremlin, or power in the hands of the oligarchs in London or Paris. They are more confident of Putin using that power to the public good than any of the hated oligarchs.

    There are bad (booooo!) oligarchs and good (yay!) oligarchs. The sole criteria is whether you support a certain Mr Putin or not.
    Like Putin or not, his record with the oligarchs is unimpeachable.

    It was Yeltsin who allowed the oligarchs to develop their powerbases. OK, it may have been an excusable consequence of rapid transition to a free market economy, but it was the oligarchs who ended up returning Yeltsin to power.

    When Putin gradually took over he had to bring the Yeltsin oligarchs into line which he did slowly and effectively by returning the core raw material extraction industry assets to state ownership. The oligarchs who complied with Putin ended up rich exiles (Abramovich). Those who challenged his power ended up in jail (Khodorkovsky).

    And Putin is not a typically corrupt Soviet style carpet bagger (at least by comparison with his predecessors and peers throughout the FSU). You won't find a string of Presidential yachts and many palaces built in his name (there is one on the Black Sea) and he doesn't flaunt his personal wealth, although to be fair a Russia President will always have access to any comfort desired.

    In addition his family do not run half the industry in the country. By Russian standards (I stress again this is relative), Putin is an austere and self-denying leader. His stand against Yuri Luzhkov, Moscow's all powerful Mayor with a wife who ran the private property development industry in Moscow, was a model of the 'principled' power accretion.

    Putin is by no means a saint and his exercise of power can be childish and boorish. He is also not an 'enlightened' leader in the mould of the Catherine the Great who spent her waking hours corresponding with Voltaire. He cultivates the well established image of a Russian "muzhik": a sort of man of the people. This is part a projection of KGB calculation but also undoubtedly part genuine.

    For all the faults of Putin's administration, he is undoubtedly popular and respected in Russia. He may want to appear fearless but there is too much of the rational analyst in him to be foolhardy.

    If he moves into the Ukraine it will not be to conquer or divide but to obtain the best hand at the poker table.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2014

    Julian Druker ‏@Julian5News 42 secs
    Michael Adebolajo's defence lawyer says a full life sentence can 'never be justified' #woolwich
    Mr Gottlieb clearly thinks that the decision of a special constitution of the Court of Appeal, including the Lord Chief, the President of the QBD, and the Vice President of the Court of Appeal, in McLoughlin & Newell is obiter.

    Is he a raving left wing looney or a barrister ?
  • AveryLP said:

    Anorak said:

    Err! I think that Putin is quite friendly with the oligarcs, it is that whole culture of power and patronage that the Ukranians want away from these things though!. The EU may not be the best avenue away fr

    There are bad (booooo!) oligarchs and good (yay!) oligarchs. The sole criteria is whether you support a certain Mr Putin or not.
    Like Putin or not, his record with the oligarchs is unimpeachable.

    It was Yeltsin who allowed the oligarchs to develop their powerbases. OK, it may have been an excusable consequence of rapid transition to a free market economy, but it was the oligarchs who ended up returning Yeltsin to power.

    When Putin gradually took over he had to bring the Yeltsin oligarchs into line which he did slowly and effectively by returning the core raw material extraction industry assets to state ownership. The oligarchs who complied with Putin ended up rich exiles (Abramovich). Those who challenged his power ended up in jail (Khodorkovsky).

    And Putin is not a typically corrupt Soviet style carpet bagger (at least by comparison with his predecessors and peers throughout the FSU). You won't find a string of Presidential yachts and many palaces built in his name (there is one on the Black Sea) and he doesn't flaunt his personal wealth, although to be fair a Russia President will always have access to any comfort desired.

    In addition his family do not run half the industry in the country. By Russian standards (I stress again this is relative), Putin is an austere and self-denying leader. His stand against Yuri Luzhkov, Moscow's all powerful Mayor with a wife who ran the private property development industry in Moscow, was a model of the 'principled' power accretion.

    Putin is by no means a saint and his exercise of power can be childish and boorish. He is also not an 'enlightened' leader in the mould of the Catherine the Great who spent her waking hours corresponding with Voltaire. He cultivates the well established image of a Russian "muzhik": a sort of man of the people. This is part a projection of KGB calculation but also undoubtedly part genuine.

    For all the faults of Putin's administration, he is undoubtedly popular and respected in Russia. He may want to appear fearless but there is too much of the rational analyst in him to be foolhardy.

    If he moves into the Ukraine it will not be to conquer or divide but to obtain the best hand at the poker table.
    Excellent analysis.
  • Julian Druker ‏@Julian5News 42 secs
    Michael Adebolajo's defence lawyer says a full life sentence can 'never be justified' #woolwich
    Mr Gottlieb clearly thinks that the decision of a special constitution of the Court of Appeal, including the Lord Chief, the President of the QBD, and the Vice President of the Court of Appeal, in McLoughlin & Newell is obiter.

    The defence barristers haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in this trial, have they?
  • AveryLP said:

    Anorak said:

    Err! I think that Putin is quite friendly with the oligarcs, it is that whole culture of power and patronage that the Ukranians want away from these things though!. The EU may not be the best avenue away fr

    There are bad (booooo!) oligarchs and good (yay!) oligarchs. The sole criteria is whether you support a certain Mr Putin or not.
    Like Putin or not, his record with the oligarchs is unimpeachable.

    It was Yeltsin who allowed the oligarchs to develop their powerbases. OK, it may have been an excusable consequence of rapid transition to a free market economy, but it was the oligarchs who ended up returning Yeltsin to power.

    When Putin gradually took over he had to bring the Yeltsin oligarchs into line which he did slowly and effectively by returning the core raw material extraction industry assets to state ownership. The oligarchs who complied with Putin ended up rich exiles (Abramovich). Those who challenged his power ended up in jail (Khodorkovsky).

    And Putin is not a typically corrupt Soviet style carpet bagger (at least by comparison with his predecessors and peers throughout the FSU). You won't find a string of Presidential yachts and many palaces built in his name (there is one on the Black Sea) and he doesn't flaunt his personal wealth, although to be fair a Russia President will always have access to any comfort desired.

    In addition his family do not run half the industry in the country. By Russian standards (I stress again this is relative), Putin is an austere and self-denying leader. His stand against Yuri Luzhkov, Moscow's all powerful Mayor with a wife who ran the private property development industry in Moscow, was a model of the 'principled' power accretion.

    Putin is by no means a saint and his exercise of power can be childish and boorish. He is also not an 'enlightened' leader in the mould of the Catherine the Great who spent her waking hours corresponding with Voltaire. He cultivates the well established image of a Russian "muzhik": a sort of man of the people. This is part a projection of KGB calculation but also undoubtedly part genuine.

    For all the faults of Putin's administration, he is undoubtedly popular and respected in Russia. He may want to appear fearless but there is too much of the rational analyst in him to be foolhardy.

    If he moves into the Ukraine it will not be to conquer or divide but to obtain the best hand at the poker table.
    Excellent analysis.
    I'll happily second that.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I liked the top rated comment after the article
    Please can we get this right. It wouldn't be 4,000 lives saved, it would be 4,000 deaths slightly postponed.
    antifrank said:

    Better Together have opened a new flank:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15561501

    A more clearcut example of bullying it would be hard to find.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    Thanks LastBoyScout for your comments and contribution to the site
This discussion has been closed.