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  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @TOPPING

    I agree with Sean Fear that a lot of the stuff to do with "grievance" and "empowerment" is just excuse making. Even if the police were five times more polite, I think they would still blamed.

    But yes, I think the criminal nature of the rioters is key to the solutions. The solution lies in preventing low level criminal lifestyles so many of these men adopt at a young age. I think one part of that is removing teens that commit crimes from their social circles, so those around them feel there are serious consequences to committing crime, rather than the current slap on the wrist system we have now. You mention "shared identity", which I also think is a factor: the constant influx of immigration without much integration has really broken the sense of a single British community, and so a pause there is needed. Also, more structure and consistency in punishment is needed both at home, and in school, so that children stay on the right path from a young age.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    Gravity was ridiculously overrated.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @antifrank

    A polis is a city-state. The criticism myself, Morris Dancer and Sean Fear make of the European population is that it is not a demos.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    antifrank said:

    The BBC have put up a very handy set of maps for the 2015 election battlegrounds:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25949029

    Lol my seat is on it - Derbyshire NE. Big Labour majority here I forecast.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    One thing's for sure. The Daily Mail scent blood. I expect Harriet Harman and/or Patricia Hewitt will feature on the front page of the Mail tomorrow in some way.

    Getting Harriet to eat humble PIE is now a second priority for the Mail.

    Thanks to the Hon Mr Justice Sweeney, it is now Tony Blair and Peter Hain who urgently have to answer for their past decisions.
    Apologies if I'm missing something (only had a quick skim of the BBC report) but this appears to be a procedural error on the part of PSNI, coupled with (what sounds like) the reasonable point made by Hain that the government has to act within the spirit of the Good Friday agreement, and that this kind of error can't be undone without greater injustice. Not to minimise the pain of the victims' families and friends, but presumably there were many terrorists who have escaped what would be seen as justice in order to achieve the peace settlement in NI?
    How's the bloody Sunday inquiry going? When do things that outrage the nationalists reach the stage where they just have to suck it up for the greater good?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261
    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    I wanted to see it, but Mrs J did not. Your review on here the other day convinced her, so on Sunday we went, and ... meh.

    It's very funny in places, but it lacked soul. Personally, I'd say more of a JAMS/Illuminati type moral than communism or libertarianism (the forces of order being smashed by those of chaos).

    But my main point is this: you say you secretly fancied Jessica Rabbit. Well, someone of my acquaintance (ahem) finds Sandy Squirrel from Spongebob strangely alluring:

    Look, Squirrel!
    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100407033839/bobesponja/images/4/40/290px-Sandy_Cheeks.jpg
  • Options

    Even Nadine Dorries has backed Harman. To her credit. Which just goes to show how niche the very venomous (and sometimes sinister) posts on here are.

    Venomous, maybe, but "Sinister"? Come on get real.

    Why the Mail has decided to resurrect this NCCL/PIE story after all this time I don't know but I think I am glad it has. I remember being outraged at the time. PIE was so repugnant that it even got a mention in a Tom Sharpe novel (the second in the Wilt series from memory) and accorded the same depth of scorn that Sharpe reserved for the apartheid regime.

    Hewitt, Dromey and Harman got off far too lightly at the time so maybe there is some justice in their judgements of those days being brought to the surface again.
    As I said earlier the reason it has surfaced again is because PIE are under investigation by Operation Fernbridge, instigated by Tom Watson.

    It has given the Mail an excuse to bring it to the public attention once again.
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    isam said:

    To be fair that is the only explanation I can think as to why Hills would cut YES...

    Perhaps they are just taking more on Yes than No at the moment? You might as well lay as cheap as you can. However the arb is probably getting fairly tempting.

    PS I'm pretty sure most of the bigger bookmakers would happily lay this market [at their current prices] to lose a few grand at the moment (i.e. Hills would probably take £10.5k to win £3k, and Ladbrokes would probably lay at least a grand at 7/2, if not more).

    It's chunky bets on things like individual seats etc. that bookies will understandably baulk at - when the price is probably 2 weeks' old and they've taken a total of £50 on it to date, they won't be too keen to lay £500.
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    AveryLP said:

    Mr Justice Sweeney dismisses prosecution of John Downey for the 1982 Hyde Park Bombing

    But lawyers for Mr Downey argued in a two week abuse of process hearing at the Old Bailey that it was unfair to prosecute him and that it would threaten a key agreement in the Northern Ireland peace settlement.

    Mr Justice Sweeney, who prosecuted several IRA cases during his career, agreed and threw out the prosecution, allowing the details of the case to be made public for the first time.
    He said there had been a “catastrophic failure” in the case, compounded by the fact nothing was down when the error was spotted.

    In a scathing ruling, he said “no sensible explanation” for the various failures has been given.

    He concluded that the public interest in ensuring people accused of serious crime are tried was “very significantly outweighed” by the interests in ensuring that “executive misconduct” does not bring the criminal justice into disrepute and state officials are held to the promises they made.

    “Hence I have concluded that this is one of those rare cases in which, in the particular circumstances, it offends the court’s sense of justice and propriety to be asked to try the defendant,” he said.


    http://bit.ly/1hP9oSW

    I was 400 yards away when that bomb went off, a day that will live with me forever.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Theresa Villiers, in an interview with Jeremy Thompson on Sky News, sidestepped the main issues raised by the staying of the Downey's prosecution.

    She claimed that the decision made by the Court was based on a letter sent by the Police Service of Northern Ireland to Downey which mistakenly stated that he wasn't wanted for questioning by any UK Police Force. Villiers promised an investigation into why the error was made.

    On the wider issue of whether a secret indemnity against prosecution should have been granted to 'on the run' suspects by the government of the time all Villiers had to say was that she expected this to be a matter for "wider debate".

    If Villiers is the final word on the matter. it appears the current government has accepted the decision of the Court to stay Downey's prosecution. It appears unlikely that there will be an appeal or attempt to hold a second trial.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    I wanted to see it, but Mrs J did not. Your review on here the other day convinced her, so on Sunday we went, and ... meh.

    It's very funny in places, but it lacked soul. Personally, I'd say more of a JAMS/Illuminati type moral than communism or libertarianism (the forces of order being smashed by those of chaos).

    But my main point is this: you say you secretly fancied Jessica Rabbit. Well, someone of my acquaintance (ahem) finds Sandy Squirrel from Spongebob strangely alluring:

    Look, Squirrel!
    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100407033839/bobesponja/images/4/40/290px-Sandy_Cheeks.jpg
    Chacun a son gout, of course, I think my overall point is undeniable. Some animated features are now better than the movies nominated for Best Film Oscar. Yet cartoons are always ignored and patronised.
    Something Mrs J cannot believe: I am nearly 41, and have never seen any of the 'classic' Disney full-length animations. Not Dumbo, Snow White, Pinocchio, the Aristocats, even the Jungle Book. I've mostly seen just recent computer-generated stuff, and then only because the tech fascinates me.

    But you are right: the Toy Story films are fantastic as stories, and the Shrek films brilliant. There's something about the way such films are produced that can make them far better than traditional acted films. For instance, the brilliance of the stop-frame Walllace and Grommit.

    I'm not sure if this means I had a deprived childhood ...
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Socrates said:

    @antifrank

    A polis is a city-state. The criticism myself, Morris Dancer and Sean Fear make of the European population is that it is not a demos.


    Playing devil's advocate for a second, Socrates, it does appear that sometimes the efforts to create an identifiable common social or cultural identity on which the EU could justifiably rest are resisted on the grounds that identity does not yet exist.

    The language of European citizenship, from Maastricht onwards, is a case in point. There is a temptation to dismiss such a thing because no common identity exists, even when it is a measure designed to bring that identity into being.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    AveryLP said:

    Mr Justice Sweeney dismisses prosecution of John Downey for the 1982 Hyde Park Bombing

    But lawyers for Mr Downey argued in a two week abuse of process hearing at the Old Bailey that it was unfair to prosecute him and that it would threaten a key agreement in the Northern Ireland peace settlement.

    Mr Justice Sweeney, who prosecuted several IRA cases during his career, agreed and threw out the prosecution, allowing the details of the case to be made public for the first time.
    He said there had been a “catastrophic failure” in the case, compounded by the fact nothing was down when the error was spotted.

    In a scathing ruling, he said “no sensible explanation” for the various failures has been given.

    He concluded that the public interest in ensuring people accused of serious crime are tried was “very significantly outweighed” by the interests in ensuring that “executive misconduct” does not bring the criminal justice into disrepute and state officials are held to the promises they made.

    “Hence I have concluded that this is one of those rare cases in which, in the particular circumstances, it offends the court’s sense of justice and propriety to be asked to try the defendant,” he said.


    http://bit.ly/1hP9oSW

    I was 400 yards away when that bomb went off, a day that will live with me forever.
    It's long been noticed that in order to reach the "Good Friday Agreement" on Northern Ireland, both Blair and Hain sold the pass. Probably sold other other items as well, in order to get a Nobel Peace Prize and other goodies.
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    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    The BBC have put up a very handy set of maps for the 2015 election battlegrounds:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25949029

    Lol my seat is on it - Derbyshire NE. Big Labour majority here I forecast.
    Marginal seats are not evenly spread

    Marginal seats are not evenly spread: within England, 15% of seats in the South East have majorities of 10% or less, compared with 51% in the South West. In Scotland, 19% of seats fall into this category, compared with 45% in Wales.

    Northern Ireland does not feature in these marginals because we focus on the battleground fought by the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats, at least two of which do not contest Westminster elections in Northern Ireland.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Re Tom Sharpe what did the verb 'to thorpe' mean?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Nigel

    In the barracks or the park?

    AveryLP said:

    Mr Justice Sweeney dismisses prosecution of John Downey for the 1982 Hyde Park Bombing

    But lawyers for Mr Downey argued in a two week abuse of process hearing at the Old Bailey that it was unfair to prosecute him and that it would threaten a key agreement in the Northern Ireland peace settlement.

    Mr Justice Sweeney, who prosecuted several IRA cases during his career, agreed and threw out the prosecution, allowing the details of the case to be made public for the first time.
    He said there had been a “catastrophic failure” in the case, compounded by the fact nothing was down when the error was spotted.

    In a scathing ruling, he said “no sensible explanation” for the various failures has been given.

    He concluded that the public interest in ensuring people accused of serious crime are tried was “very significantly outweighed” by the interests in ensuring that “executive misconduct” does not bring the criminal justice into disrepute and state officials are held to the promises they made.

    “Hence I have concluded that this is one of those rare cases in which, in the particular circumstances, it offends the court’s sense of justice and propriety to be asked to try the defendant,” he said.


    http://bit.ly/1hP9oSW

    I was 400 yards away when that bomb went off, a day that will live with me forever.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Probably sold other other items as well, in order to get a Nobel Peace Prize and other goodies.

    Maybe. There's no doubting the peace since the GFA has been enduring and welcome though. In contrast to their negotiations with the EU, Labour did get something back for what they gave away...
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    I wanted to see it, but Mrs J did not. Your review on here the other day convinced her, so on Sunday we went, and ... meh.

    It's very funny in places, but it lacked soul. Personally, I'd say more of a JAMS/Illuminati type moral than communism or libertarianism (the forces of order being smashed by those of chaos).

    But my main point is this: you say you secretly fancied Jessica Rabbit. Well, someone of my acquaintance (ahem) finds Sandy Squirrel from Spongebob strangely alluring:

    Look, Squirrel!
    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100407033839/bobesponja/images/4/40/290px-Sandy_Cheeks.jpg
    Chacun a son gout, of course, I think my overall point is undeniable. Some animated features are now better than the movies nominated for Best Film Oscar. Yet cartoons are always ignored and patronised.
    The notorious animation ghetto.

    It was behind the double edged sword that is the Oscar for Best Animated Feature. That was created to honour animated films that were being shut out of the major fields (Beauty and the Best in 1991 was the only animated film nominated for best picture), but the downside was it also legitimised shutting them out of the major categories (although now they've expanded the Best Picture field to 10, Up, and Toy Story 3 both got nods) by giving them their own little corner.
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    SeanT said:


    Yep. I thought it was actively feeble in places. And Clooney phoned in his performance.

    The SFX at the beginning were very good, but as I say in the blog, Kubrick did zero G just as well 40 years ago.

    I just thought it was, you know, quite good. I wasn't bored at all. It was definitely above average.

    A mate of mine said the same about American Beauty when it won all those Oscars. He thought it had done so because it was, you know, quite good. Really not bad at all.

    Kubrick did zero G well but g/6 not so well, and the last 15 minutes were clearly filmed up his own bottom.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    To be fair that is the only explanation I can think as to why Hills would cut YES...

    Perhaps they are just taking more on Yes than No at the moment? You might as well lay as cheap as you can. However the arb is probably getting fairly tempting.

    PS I'm pretty sure most of the bigger bookmakers would happily lay this market [at their current prices] to lose a few grand at the moment (i.e. Hills would probably take £10.5k to win £3k, and Ladbrokes would probably lay at least a grand at 7/2, if not more).

    It's chunky bets on things like individual seats etc. that bookies will understandably baulk at - when the price is probably 2 weeks' old and they've taken a total of £50 on it to date, they won't be too keen to lay £500.
    Bookies lay bets when there is liquidity on Betfair and they are the right side of Betfair.. Im afraid that's all there is to it now

    Have you read this? Good blog by a mate of mine

    http://jamesracing.co.uk/
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    AveryLP said:

    If Villiers is the final word on the matter. it appears the current government has accepted the decision of the Court to stay Downey's prosecution. It appears unlikely that there will be an appeal or attempt to hold a second trial.

    The indictment has been stayed by a High Court Judge as an abuse of process, and the Crown have indicated that they will not be seeking leave to appeal the ruling (if indeed an appeal lies against it). Unless new evidence comes to light as explained in the letter from the Northern Ireland office to the defendant, this is the end of the matter. My view is that the case raises an important point of law of general public importance which the Crown, at the very least, should have tried to have determined by the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division).
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Socrates said:

    @antifrank

    A polis is a city-state. The criticism myself, Morris Dancer and Sean Fear make of the European population is that it is not a demos.

    I wonder if a lot of Europhilia/scepticism comes down to personal impressions about this. I suppose I've visited most countries in Europe, and lived in several for decades. The overwhelming impression that I've taken away is how similar they are to us - similar hopes, fears, ambitions, beliefs. They vary among themselves, as we do, but we're basically all the same gang or, to put it a little more poshly, the same demos.

    We've spent several hundred years denying that and fighting each other, and 60 years not denying it and trying to work together. Trying to split that up seems to me as wrong-headed as trying to separate England from Scotland - also places with differences of tradition and culture, but with more in common than the differences.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014

    AveryLP said:

    If Villiers is the final word on the matter. it appears the current government has accepted the decision of the Court to stay Downey's prosecution. It appears unlikely that there will be an appeal or attempt to hold a second trial.

    The indictment has been stayed by a High Court Judge as an abuse of process, and the Crown have indicated that they will not be seeking leave to appeal the ruling (if indeed an appeal lies against it). Unless new evidence comes to light as explained in the letter from the Northern Ireland office to the defendant, this is the end of the matter. My view is that the case raises an important point of law of general public importance which the Crown, at the very least, should have tried to have determined by the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division).
    I agree fully that there should be an appeal heard.

    I guess though that political expedience will mean that the government will be reluctant to poke their stick into the hornets' nest of the GFA and NI politics.

    It will therefore depend on public reaction to the Court's decision. My temperature reading so far is that the decision is generating less heat than Harman et al's passive support of paedophile rights advocacy in the 1970s.

    Methinks, we have all got our priorities wrong here.

    Prime Ministers and Secretaries of State making 'judicial' decisions in secret following the failure of political negotiations to resolve policy on the matter addressed appears to me a far more serious public interest issue than Harman's youthful indiscretions at the NCCL.
  • Options

    Socrates said:

    @antifrank

    A polis is a city-state. The criticism myself, Morris Dancer and Sean Fear make of the European population is that it is not a demos.

    I wonder if a lot of Europhilia/scepticism comes down to personal impressions about this. I suppose I've visited most countries in Europe, and lived in several for decades. The overwhelming impression that I've taken away is how similar they are to us - similar hopes, fears, ambitions, beliefs. They vary among themselves, as we do, but we're basically all the same gang or, to put it a little more poshly, the same demos.

    We've spent several hundred years denying that and fighting each other, and 60 years not denying it and trying to work together. Trying to split that up seems to me as wrong-headed as trying to separate England from Scotland - also places with differences of tradition and culture, but with more in common than the differences.
    Isn't the truth that we have a partial demos? The problem is that the EU greatly overreaches the boundaries of that partial demos and attempts to manufacture a synthetic demos in pursuit of a dream that few Europeans share. In the process, it discredits the partial demos that could work effectively.
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    New thread
    3 months to go till the Euros & concern about UKIP’s key policy, immigration, sees a sharp drop in the Issues Index http://bit.ly/1dv8XWk
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    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Palmer, there's an implied suggestion there that our binary choice is perpetual warfare or dissolving nations in the vile institution of the EU. During the last 60 years we also haven't had a war with Japan, or Canada.

    Of course, individually, humans are very similar. But culturally there are wide differences, and it's legitimate for different countries to try and pursue different approaches, whether on social or economic issues.

    I'd also dispute that this is some sort of magic time. There's the genocide that occurred a couple of decades ago in Yugoslavia, for a start. Furthermore, Rome knew no civil war during the Golden Age of emperors (Nerva to Marcus Aurelius, though the latter is dramatically overrated), 96AD to 180AD. The city was rather safe and delightful during this period (somehow they coped without EU membership).

    The EU is vile because it is Littlefinger and Varys, without the morality and honour. We find ourselves surrendering sovereignty piece by piece, and nobody asked us.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Socrates said:

    @antifrank

    A polis is a city-state. The criticism myself, Morris Dancer and Sean Fear make of the European population is that it is not a demos.

    I wonder if a lot of Europhilia/scepticism comes down to personal impressions about this. I suppose I've visited most countries in Europe, and lived in several for decades. The overwhelming impression that I've taken away is how similar they are to us - similar hopes, fears, ambitions, beliefs. They vary among themselves, as we do, but we're basically all the same gang or, to put it a little more poshly, the same demos.

    We've spent several hundred years denying that and fighting each other, and 60 years not denying it and trying to work together. Trying to split that up seems to me as wrong-headed as trying to separate England from Scotland - also places with differences of tradition and culture, but with more in common than the differences.
    I think you are setting up a nice little straw man here.

    FWIW, I grew up in England, with English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish grandparents but spent the summers in Italy. I have family living in France, Belgium and Switzerland and married and American (plus also have family from Tennessee of all places!). My professional career has been spent in Scandinavia, Germany, France and Switzerland.

    So, overall, a pretty good view of Europe and Europeans.

    Superficially, the same things interest us all - family, careers, standard of living etc. But so many of the underlying assumptions are very very different. I adore my Walloon cousins, for instance - but wouldn't let them anywhere near our government.

    Recognise Europeans for what they are: proud tribes of independently minded people who share many things in common and should co-operate when it is to mutual advantage, but should be free to plough their own furrow when it doesn't.
  • Options
    AveryLP said:

    Nigel

    In the barracks or the park?


    AveryLP said:

    Mr Justice Sweeney dismisses prosecution of John Downey for the 1982 Hyde Park Bombing

    But lawyers for Mr Downey argued in a two week abuse of process hearing at the Old Bailey that it was unfair to prosecute him and that it would threaten a key agreement in the Northern Ireland peace settlement.

    Mr Justice Sweeney, who prosecuted several IRA cases during his career, agreed and threw out the prosecution, allowing the details of the case to be made public for the first time.
    He said there had been a “catastrophic failure” in the case, compounded by the fact nothing was down when the error was spotted.

    In a scathing ruling, he said “no sensible explanation” for the various failures has been given.

    He concluded that the public interest in ensuring people accused of serious crime are tried was “very significantly outweighed” by the interests in ensuring that “executive misconduct” does not bring the criminal justice into disrepute and state officials are held to the promises they made.

    “Hence I have concluded that this is one of those rare cases in which, in the particular circumstances, it offends the court’s sense of justice and propriety to be asked to try the defendant,” he said.


    http://bit.ly/1hP9oSW

    I was 400 yards away when that bomb went off, a day that will live with me forever.
    Hyde Park
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,400
    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    Your general point is right, but The Lego Movie is only eligible for next year's Oscars as it opened in the States after the cut-off.

    One of the reasons that not just animated movies but big commercial releases in general never get much of a look-in is the sheer amount of campaigning that goes into getting nominated for an Oscar. With films like 12YAS and Gravity the distributors will have spent months and months at various film festivals generating critical buzz and schmoozing awards electorates. Once a film gets nominated, there will then be breakfasts with the stars, goodies sent to Academy members houses, special cast screenings etc. If it works it's worth it as becoming an awards contender can mean that a film that would otherwise not really find a mass audience makes north of $100m.

    Bigger blockbusters aimed at a family audience tend not to bother as they live or die on their broader popularity rather than critical buzz- they spend the time and effort making sure the thing is damn near inescapable, and don't particularly bother with the critics. Providing they don't absolutely stink they'll do well, and if they're very good can make astronomical sums (see The Avengers).

    In the case of The Lego Movie the film's studio genuinely doesn't seem to have know what they had on their hands, otherwise it would've likely opened in the pre-Christmas period or the summer rather than January-February which is usually when studios dump projects that didn't quite come off (Gangster Squad, Die Hard 5) or interesting populist fare that might take-off but isn't pre-sold to audiences (eg. 21 Jump Street ). By next year's Oscars it will unfortunately have sunk to the back of people's minds.

    So while part of it is down to a bit of a snobbish electorate (many of them being actors can't help), it's also due to studios not really bothering to put family films forward for awards, which sadly means some excellent animated movies never really get a look in.
  • Options
    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    MJW said:

    SeanT said:

    Enough of this trivia. I've written an important essay on THE issue of the day. How The Lego Movie is way more AWESOME than Gravity.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261124/the-lego-movie-is-better-than-gravity-there-ive-said-it/

    Your general point is right, but The Lego Movie is only eligible for next year's Oscars as it opened in the States after the cut-off.

    One of the reasons that not just animated movies but big commercial releases in general never get much of a look-in is the sheer amount of campaigning that goes into getting nominated for an Oscar. With films like 12YAS and Gravity the distributors will have spent months and months at various film festivals generating critical buzz and schmoozing awards electorates. Once a film gets nominated, there will then be breakfasts with the stars, goodies sent to Academy members houses, special cast screenings etc. If it works it's worth it as becoming an awards contender can mean that a film that would otherwise not really find a mass audience makes north of $100m.

    Bigger blockbusters aimed at a family audience tend not to bother as they live or die on their broader popularity rather than critical buzz- they spend the time and effort making sure the thing is damn near inescapable, and don't particularly bother with the critics. Providing they don't absolutely stink they'll do well, and if they're very good can make astronomical sums (see The Avengers).

    In the case of The Lego Movie the film's studio genuinely doesn't seem to have know what they had on their hands, otherwise it would've likely opened in the pre-Christmas period or the summer rather than January-February which is usually when studios dump projects that didn't quite come off (Gangster Squad, Die Hard 5) or interesting populist fare that might take-off but isn't pre-sold to audiences (eg. 21 Jump Street ). By next year's Oscars it will unfortunately have sunk to the back of people's minds.

    So while part of it is down to a bit of a snobbish electorate (many of them being actors can't help), it's also due to studios not really bothering to put family films forward for awards, which sadly means some excellent animated movies never really get a look in.
    Isn't there a case that they put it here to avoid the competition of the normal blockbuster periods?
This discussion has been closed.