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Rwandan discussions – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,010
edited January 22 in General
Rwandan discussions – politicalbetting.com

Britons' preferences for the Rwanda policyAll BritonsKeep as is: 20%Adapt to something similar: 17%Scrap altogether: 40%2019 Con votersKeep as is: 37%Adapt to something similar: 26%Scrap altogether: 20%https://t.co/bNWfox3YXu pic.twitter.com/Pk2SdOxZEj

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922
    edited January 18
    This boats mess shows the gulf that the Conservative Party has fallen into. It's worse than 1992-7, and with a PM who lacks Major's charisma! and down-to-Earth common sense.

    Edit: and first.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,233
    Second, like Sunak
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,233
    Populist politics that isn’t even popular; surely a winning formula!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922
    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,095
    I guess it’s better than Ugandan discussions !!
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,095

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Islamic Republic has had a problem with chronic alcoholism and alcohol deaths for a while now due to people making their own including something called Aragh. A local moonshine.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    edited January 18
    Taz said:

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Islamic Republic has had a problem with chronic alcoholism and alcohol deaths for a while now due to people making their own including something called Aragh. A local moonshine.
    Prohibition doesn’t work, who knew?

    Banning things that are relatively easy to make, almost always results in people making it anyway. Even in Saudi there’s discussions about whether or not their new Neom resorts are going to be licenced, and they’ve already opened cinemas, theatres, and are spending a lot of money on sporting events.

    They’re trying to attract tourists, and at the moment a significant number of their locals escape every weekend to neighbouring countries with more liberal policies towards entertainment.

    Another huge problem in the Middle East is an amphetamine called Captagon, produced unofficially by Syria and distributed around the region.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64091223
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Islamic Republic has had a problem with chronic alcoholism and alcohol deaths for a while now due to people making their own including something called Aragh. A local moonshine.
    Prohibition doesn’t work, who knew?

    Banning things that are relatively easy to make, almost always results in people making it anyway. Even in Saudi there’s discussions about whether or not their new Neom resorts are going to be licenced, and they’ve already opened cinemas, theatres, and are spending a lot of money on sporting events.

    They’re trying to attract tourists, and at the moment a significant number of their locals escape every weekend to neighbouring countries with more liberal policies towards entertainment.

    Another huge problem in the Middle East is an amphetamine called Captagon, produced unofficially by Syria and distributed around the region.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64091223
    There used to be a long railway bridge over the Solway Firth, from near Bowness on Solway in Cumbria to Annan in Scotland. After the railway closed, every Sunday Scottish men would cross the bridge on foot to drink in English pubs as Scottish pubs were closed on Sundays.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    IanB2 said:

    Second, like Sunak

    You're optimistic fur him, then.
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    RattersRatters Posts: 775
    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    Trump: We have more liquid gold, oil and gas. More liquid gold. Well, I just met non liquid gold. You know where it was? Iowa. It's called corn. They have. It's non liquid.
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1747812948624474597
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,255
    Victoria Derbyshire, "So it's not going to work"

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, "I hope it will work"

    VD, "Of course you do, but you just explained why you think it won't work"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1747764338335609019

    (90-second video clip in tweet)
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    Taz said:

    I guess it’s better than Ugandan discussions !!

    I prefer Ugandan discussions over Rwandan discussions but then I’m not as sweet and innocent as I appear.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,255
    The Rt Hon Dr Thérèse Coffey PC MP shows off her geographical knowledge:-

    It is important to speak in this debate. I have to say, I was somewhat astonished by the speech of the shadow Home Secretary, who cannot even get the name of the country right, talking about the Kigali Government when we are talking about Rwanda—a respected country that has recently been president of the Commonwealth.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-17/debates/87C04B7F-2159-4F09-8825-3FC68BE13256/SafetyOfRwanda(AsylumAndImmigration)Bill#contribution-925F7917-8561-4076-9627-C44126D13724

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    I urge you all to exercise obtundity


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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,294

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Islamic Republic has had a problem with chronic alcoholism and alcohol deaths for a while now due to people making their own including something called Aragh. A local moonshine.
    Prohibition doesn’t work, who knew?

    Banning things that are relatively easy to make, almost always results in people making it anyway. Even in Saudi there’s discussions about whether or not their new Neom resorts are going to be licenced, and they’ve already opened cinemas, theatres, and are spending a lot of money on sporting events.

    They’re trying to attract tourists, and at the moment a significant number of their locals escape every weekend to neighbouring countries with more liberal policies towards entertainment.

    Another huge problem in the Middle East is an amphetamine called Captagon, produced unofficially by Syria and distributed around the region.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64091223
    There used to be a long railway bridge over the Solway Firth, from near Bowness on Solway in Cumbria to Annan in Scotland. After the railway closed, every Sunday Scottish men would cross the bridge on foot to drink in English pubs as Scottish pubs were closed on Sundays.
    Scotland, like the Irish Republic, used to be much more religiously conformist and strict than England.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,989
    Nigelb said:

    Trump: We have more liquid gold, oil and gas. More liquid gold. Well, I just met non liquid gold. You know where it was? Iowa. It's called corn. They have. It's non liquid.
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1747812948624474597

    I know what he’s trying to say, but that’s an impressive stream of garbled nonsense
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,989
    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    TL;DR

    He’s not very good at politics
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,294

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Iranian revolution of 1978 was a complete disaster.

    Unbelievably to us, as it blends theocracy, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, it remains massively popular- for reasons I cannot fathom.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.
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    IanB2 said:

    Second, like Sunak

    If he's lucky.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Iranian revolution of 1978 was a complete disaster.

    Unbelievably to us, as it blends theocracy, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, it remains massively popular- for reasons I cannot fathom.
    It's hard to put ourselves into the mindset of a very different population, but the Iranian regime has almost total control over the media, and very strict internal policing. They also split the army and police into several different groups, probably to prevent one or the other becoming more powerful. Given this, it's very difficult to know what the true feeling of the population is. Would you admit to not liking the government, if you were an Iranian in Iran?

    Having said that, there are some very brave protestors, often female, who do protest. Often with very serious consequences for them and their families.

    It's also the way Russia is heading. Oh, for those fools on the left who think the Houthis, Iran, or Russia are in any way on the 'good' side of this...
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,292
    edited January 18
    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?
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    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?

    I cannot.

    I've said for ages Sunak should spin the argument 180 degrees and say it is a tribute to the UK and Brexit that so many people want to flee France and live here.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922
    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882
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    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,553
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,095

    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159

    The Cameron effect.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,882

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
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    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?

    Ok, here's the answer, from a YouGov poll in The Times, there's more responses but here's the top ones.


  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,095
    The Guardian agrees we should stop the boats, just not the ones currently coming over from France for which they would roll out the red carpet.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-tories-are-right-we-should-stop-the-boats-just-not-the-ones-they-re-talking-about/ar-AA1n9Vt0?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4503510756ab4933911e79290fe07a9f&ei=16
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    Taz said:

    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159

    The Cameron effect.
    The Tories would be polling single digits if Sunak hadn't brought Cameron back.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,294

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    The Iranian revolution of 1978 was a complete disaster.

    Unbelievably to us, as it blends theocracy, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, it remains massively popular- for reasons I cannot fathom.
    It's hard to put ourselves into the mindset of a very different population, but the Iranian regime has almost total control over the media, and very strict internal policing. They also split the army and police into several different groups, probably to prevent one or the other becoming more powerful. Given this, it's very difficult to know what the true feeling of the population is. Would you admit to not liking the government, if you were an Iranian in Iran?

    Having said that, there are some very brave protestors, often female, who do protest. Often with very serious consequences for them and their families.

    It's also the way Russia is heading. Oh, for those fools on the left who think the Houthis, Iran, or Russia are in any way on the 'good' side of this...
    That's true, but I think there are plenty of devouts who love Iran socking it to the infidels and the zionists.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,524

    The Rt Hon Dr Thérèse Coffey PC MP shows off her geographical knowledge:-

    It is important to speak in this debate. I have to say, I was somewhat astonished by the speech of the shadow Home Secretary, who cannot even get the name of the country right, talking about the Kigali Government when we are talking about Rwanda—a respected country that has recently been president of the Commonwealth.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-17/debates/87C04B7F-2159-4F09-8825-3FC68BE13256/SafetyOfRwanda(AsylumAndImmigration)Bill#contribution-925F7917-8561-4076-9627-C44126D13724

    This was golden. The attempted disdain with which she delivered her take down of Cooper made it all the better.

    Everyone knows the capital of Rwanda is R.
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    Victoria Derbyshire, "So it's not going to work"

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, "I hope it will work"

    VD, "Of course you do, but you just explained why you think it won't work"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1747764338335609019

    (90-second video clip in tweet)

    VD is amazing as always.

    As I understand it, Sunak is to hold a triumphantist presser today in Downing Street. This is silly. The bill has now gone to the Lords. Who will gut it, put the remains in a pretty box and send it back to the Commons, at which point we go through the whole rigmarole again as the government tries to overturn the Lords amendments and rebels can mess with them.

    There is a serious public expectation issue here. STOP THE BOATS was absolutist and the government cannot deliver. And now they are desperately trying to pretend they have got this new Sky Is Green bill though. Which will only leave their remaining voters even more angry when they look up and see it is still blue.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,103
    A strange hill for the Tory party to die on.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,095

    Victoria Derbyshire, "So it's not going to work"

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, "I hope it will work"

    VD, "Of course you do, but you just explained why you think it won't work"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1747764338335609019

    (90-second video clip in tweet)

    VD is amazing as always.

    As I understand it, Sunak is to hold a triumphantist presser today in Downing Street. This is silly. The bill has now gone to the Lords. Who will gut it, put the remains in a pretty box and send it back to the Commons, at which point we go through the whole rigmarole again as the government tries to overturn the Lords amendments and rebels can mess with them.

    There is a serious public expectation issue here. STOP THE BOATS was absolutist and the government cannot deliver. And now they are desperately trying to pretend they have got this new Sky Is Green bill though. Which will only leave their remaining voters even more angry when they look up and see it is still blue.
    She certainly was a breath of fresh air when taking over from Laura Kuenssberg on her Sunday Morning show. Her questioning of politicians was sharp, incisive, and she didn't let them off the hook.

    She has certainly improved markedly since her five live days, of a decade or so back, of just hectoring and talking over people.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    .

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    Those are not all quite the same thing, though.

    Some of those are an aggressive authoritarian regime bidding to be a dominant regional power; the others are a response to the big terrorist bombing. Not a rational response, since they've no good idea who was responsible - but as we know, even western democracies can sometimes respond irrationally to that.
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    30 point lead incoming, although it didn’t come last year I predicted afterwards one before the next GE
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,292
    edited January 18

    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?

    Ok, here's the answer, from a YouGov poll in The Times, there's more responses but here's the top ones.


    Yes, I can see it is a policy which appeals to the deluded fools who think their wretched lives will somehow improve if we could somehow stop the boats. (The fact that we can't short of machine-gunning them is not relevant.) This pool of conservative voters is dimishing however whilst those with a pulse and perhaps a few brain cells explore the other voting options, notably not voting at all.

    So in order to shore up the support of this dwindling group with a feeble grasp of politics, and reality generally, the Party is adopting a policy that alienates everyone else and is neither cost effective, legal, practical or likely to achieve its aim in the unlikely event that it ever gets on the statute book in its proposed form.

    There is however one consolation.

    At 254, I have the highest figure for Labour's Majority in the PB Prediction Competion.

    I think it's a winner.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,292
    edited January 18
    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,146

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381

    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159

    Why?

    Seriously.

    What would a Farage government (no joking matter) be able to do that the Conservatives can't?

    And whilst ECHR is how a current roadblock manifests itself, removing it won't make the scheme work.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,553

    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.

    A cold of the willy...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,233
    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
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    sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 123
    I watched quite a lot of the Rwanda debate (I know, I know).
    I know speakers aren't so strict about procedure these days but I'd have thought Suella would know a bit more about it. She said to the Scot Nat " Do you want to say something?" not does " ...wish to intervene?" and then addressed him directly "you". Perhaps she was just over excited.
    Then there was some rather excitable Tory who said thank you for giving way at the end of an intervention on him. No, it was you who gave way....
    And then "Freddy" Kruger....All rather scary.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411

    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?

    Ok, here's the answer, from a YouGov poll in The Times, there's more responses but here's the top ones.


    Taz said:

    Victoria Derbyshire, "So it's not going to work"

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, "I hope it will work"

    VD, "Of course you do, but you just explained why you think it won't work"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1747764338335609019

    (90-second video clip in tweet)

    VD is amazing as always.

    As I understand it, Sunak is to hold a triumphantist presser today in Downing Street. This is silly. The bill has now gone to the Lords. Who will gut it, put the remains in a pretty box and send it back to the Commons, at which point we go through the whole rigmarole again as the government tries to overturn the Lords amendments and rebels can mess with them.

    There is a serious public expectation issue here. STOP THE BOATS was absolutist and the government cannot deliver. And now they are desperately trying to pretend they have got this new Sky Is Green bill though. Which will only leave their remaining voters even more angry when they look up and see it is still blue.
    She certainly was a breath of fresh air when taking over from Laura Kuenssberg on her Sunday Morning show. Her questioning of politicians was sharp, incisive, and she didn't let them off the hook.

    She has certainly improved markedly since her five live days, of a decade or so back, of just hectoring and talking over people.
    If only our politicians showed such an ability to improve with experience.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,969
    RIP Sir Tony Lloyd.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,233

    Rwanda seems a very strange hill to die on.

    Can someone explain to me....seriously?

    It does at least offer a thousand to choose from…
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,314
    edited January 18
    Jordan Henderson is leaving Saudi Arabian team Al Ettifaq to join Ajax of The Netherlands.

    From Saudi to Amsterdam, where getting stoned means two completely different things.

    Edit gets worse for Jordan.

    Jordan Henderson has not yet earned a penny from his short time in Saudi Arabia having deferred salary payments, Telegraph Sport has learnt.

    Former Liverpool midfielder Henderson has travelled to Europe to complete a move to Ajax having agreed with the Saudi Pro League club Al-Ettifaq a mutual cancellation of the three-year contract he signed in the summer.

    Henderson’s U-turn is set to cost him millions and Telegraph Sport can now reveal that he has left Saudi without earning any of his £350,000-a-week wages to date, with sources close to the player believing he may never be paid for the six months he spent at Al-Ettifaq.

    The key reason for the deferral is not entirely clear, but Telegraph Sport understands that it was in part so that he could return to Britain to play for England in the short term, unrestricted by the time limitations placed on those without UK taxpayer status.

    Under UK law, an individual is considered resident for tax purposes if they spend more than 90 days in the country.

    Henderson is understood to have been advised that up to the end of last year, pro rata he must have spent no more than 21 days in Britain if he wished to be considered non-resident for tax reasons. That limitation in spending time in Britain was the key part of his initial decision to defer any salary payments. Returning to Britain with his young family to visit friends and relatives was also part of the consideration.

    As a result, Henderson had not been paid any of the £350,000-per-week salary that he agreed in July. Now that he is leaving Saudi after just six months, it is quite possible that he never will. Sources close to the player say that the expectation is that he will not be paid for the six months he spent in the Saudi Pro League.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/01/17/jordan-henderson-salary-saudi-al-ettifaq-uk-tax/
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    I think something like 5k non Republicans registered to vote in the Iowa caucuses, so that wouldn't be all that far off 10% of those who voted.

    So still pretty poor numbers for Trump.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,079
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Another thing I didn't have on my 2024 bingo card: conflict between Pakistan and... Iran?

    Iran's acting like the drunken, violent fool outside a pub, swinging punches at anyone coming out the door whilst shouting "Come here and have a go if you think you're 'ard enough!" Trying to close the Red Sea via their Houthi puppets; striking Iraq; striking Pakistan; giving weapons to Russia.

    Unusually, for a country where alcohol is verboten.

    Those are not all quite the same thing, though.

    Some of those are an aggressive authoritarian regime bidding to be a dominant regional power; the others are a response to the big terrorist bombing. Not a rational response, since they've no good idea who was responsible - but as we know, even western democracies can sometimes respond irrationally to that.
    Have they blown up a paracetamol factory yet? Or invaded Iraq because of Saudi terrorists based in Afghanistan sponsored by the Pakistani secret service?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    sbjme19 said:

    I watched quite a lot of the Rwanda debate (I know, I know).
    I know speakers aren't so strict about procedure these days but I'd have thought Suella would know a bit more about it. She said to the Scot Nat " Do you want to say something?" not does " ...wish to intervene?" and then addressed him directly "you". Perhaps she was just over excited.
    Then there was some rather excitable Tory who said thank you for giving way at the end of an intervention on him. No, it was you who gave way....
    And then "Freddy" Kruger....All rather scary.

    I’d be happy with a more modern approach to language. Drop all the Right Honorable nonsense, and not just because most of them aren’t.
    It’s 2024 FFS. You can be polite and have debates without using archaic constructions. And lose the baying.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Plus Pakistan is a member of the Commonwealth so all Tory monarchists will back supporting Pakistan.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,882
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Even harder to work how who the baddies are though.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,969

    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159

    Why?

    Seriously.

    What would a Farage government (no joking matter) be able to do that the Conservatives can't?

    And whilst ECHR is how a current roadblock manifests itself, removing it won't make the scheme work.
    Want a new PM: 'Better call Keir'.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,553
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Starting foreign wars doesn't have a great track record in recent times in terms of shoring up regimes, from General Galtieri onwards. Politicians never learn...
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.

    A cold of the willy...
    When a University friend of mine went for treatment (at Leicester Royal Infirmary, no less) he found the treatment room was at the end of a long corridor in where there were many patients for other maladies sitting on chairs waiting to be attended to. As he passed down the corridor, heads turned to see which department he was visiting.

    By the time he got to the bottom he was practically running.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,969

    Jordan Henderson is leaving Saudi Arabian team Al Ettifaq to join Ajax of The Netherlands.

    From Saudi to Amsterdam, where getting stoned means two completely different things.

    Edit gets worse for Jordan.

    Jordan Henderson has not yet earned a penny from his short time in Saudi Arabia having deferred salary payments, Telegraph Sport has learnt.

    Former Liverpool midfielder Henderson has travelled to Europe to complete a move to Ajax having agreed with the Saudi Pro League club Al-Ettifaq a mutual cancellation of the three-year contract he signed in the summer.

    Henderson’s U-turn is set to cost him millions and Telegraph Sport can now reveal that he has left Saudi without earning any of his £350,000-a-week wages to date, with sources close to the player believing he may never be paid for the six months he spent at Al-Ettifaq.

    The key reason for the deferral is not entirely clear, but Telegraph Sport understands that it was in part so that he could return to Britain to play for England in the short term, unrestricted by the time limitations placed on those without UK taxpayer status.

    Under UK law, an individual is considered resident for tax purposes if they spend more than 90 days in the country.

    Henderson is understood to have been advised that up to the end of last year, pro rata he must have spent no more than 21 days in Britain if he wished to be considered non-resident for tax reasons. That limitation in spending time in Britain was the key part of his initial decision to defer any salary payments. Returning to Britain with his young family to visit friends and relatives was also part of the consideration.

    As a result, Henderson had not been paid any of the £350,000-per-week salary that he agreed in July. Now that he is leaving Saudi after just six months, it is quite possible that he never will. Sources close to the player say that the expectation is that he will not be paid for the six months he spent in the Saudi Pro League.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/01/17/jordan-henderson-salary-saudi-al-ettifaq-uk-tax/

    The tears are contained in an onion that should water that sorrow.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,663

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Nationally 8% of registered Republicans in 2016 voted for Hillary.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411

    Foxy said:

    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.

    A cold of the willy...
    When a University friend of mine went for treatment (at Leicester Royal Infirmary, no less) he found the treatment room was at the end of a long corridor in where there were many patients for other maladies sitting on chairs waiting to be attended to. As he passed down the corridor, heads turned to see which department he was visiting.

    By the time he got to the bottom he was practically running.
    That's not the 'asking for a friend' sort of friend ?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,146
    IanB2 said:

    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
    I was hoping for genuine economic competence. Not just better than Truss, that was a given, but long term planning and a proper focus on our main issues (balance of trade, investment, productivity, education).

    I think Hunt has done pretty well as Chancellor, within the boundaries set by his boss. It is Sunak who has really disappointed. The guy is genuinely bright, has a very successful career in financial services behind him and he really just doesn't seem to get it. The HS2 decision was a terrible decision for large swathes of the country. The logistics of getting around this relatively small country of ours, both for individuals and goods, are truly terrible and an inhibition of growth.

    Hunt did some good work on encouraging investment in the budget but he could and should have gone further, even at the cost of the NI cuts. No one is talking about the balance of payments. It is critical to our future standard of living and it is simply not being addressed. We need to encourage more training. There is so much to do to get this country back on the road that someone with a reasonable grounding in economics and finance should have appreciated. I'm disappointed.

    And as for this Rwanda nonsense....
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,560
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Civil courts have ruled that he sexually assaulted Carroll, but did not rape her, but that you can’t be sued for calling him a rapist because in lay language that covers someone who has committed sexual assault. As I understand it.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,079

    Foxy said:

    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.

    A cold of the willy...
    When a University friend of mine went for treatment (at Leicester Royal Infirmary, no less) he found the treatment room was at the end of a long corridor in where there were many patients for other maladies sitting on chairs waiting to be attended to. As he passed down the corridor, heads turned to see which department he was visiting.

    By the time he got to the bottom he was practically running.
    Did he get a clap as he sprinted past?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Eabhal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Even harder to work how who the baddies are though.
    A disproportionate number of the World’s current problems, seem to have Iranian fingerprints on them.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,079
    Thanks @isam for posting Theresa Coffey's thoughts on Kigali. The look on Cooper's face was priceless.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,663
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Plays right into Trump's "I'm a victim, just like you" schtick. Getting into a name calling spat with Trump is not a winning strategy.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Nationally 8% of registered Republicans in 2016 voted for Hillary.
    It will be interesting to see how many Democrats turn out in New Hampshire to vote for Haley, where you don't need to be a registered Republican.

    Be the end for de Santis regardless. Who will drop out and endorse Trump. So it will be a two-horse race after New Hampshire. Can Haley go into the next tranche of primaries with any meaningful momentum? Well, she is going to have the boost of Trump fined tens of millions for defaming a woman he has been adjudged to have raped - and the boost of Trump having his NY business dismantled for serial fraud and losing hundreds of millions of his primary assets. These stories are going to be huge in the media.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,938
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Good morning all.
    It’s Venezuela versus Guyana, not Equatorial Guinea. The border between Venezuela, and Equatorial Guinea is the Atlantic Ocean!
  • Options
    Can anyone explain why it is that typos are invisible when proof-reading proposed comments, but immediately leap off the page once published and the time limit for editing has expired?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,699
    Rwanda was never intended to solve any problem. It was intended as a wedge so one party could claim to be doing something about an intractable problem and own those squeamish about it and ask "what are you going to do about it?"

    Instead of quietly allowing the idea die once the tactical goodness had been extracted from it, the Tories have become fully invested in a clear nonsense.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Plays right into Trump's "I'm a victim, just like you" schtick. Getting into a name calling spat with Trump is not a winning strategy.
    Not going to play well with indies. Especially women. He's not a victim; the woman he raped WAS a victim.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,663
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
    I was hoping for genuine economic competence. Not just better than Truss, that was a given, but long term planning and a proper focus on our main issues (balance of trade, investment, productivity, education).

    I think Hunt has done pretty well as Chancellor, within the boundaries set by his boss. It is Sunak who has really disappointed. The guy is genuinely bright, has a very successful career in financial services behind him and he really just doesn't seem to get it. The HS2 decision was a terrible decision for large swathes of the country. The logistics of getting around this relatively small country of ours, both for individuals and goods, are truly terrible and an inhibition of growth.

    Hunt did some good work on encouraging investment in the budget but he could and should have gone further, even at the cost of the NI cuts. No one is talking about the balance of payments. It is critical to our future standard of living and it is simply not being addressed. We need to encourage more training. There is so much to do to get this country back on the road that someone with a reasonable grounding in economics and finance should have appreciated. I'm disappointed.

    And as for this Rwanda nonsense....
    Yeah must admit I expected Sunak to be pretty good and am massively disappointed. I can't even understand the logic behind much of his decision making and especially communication. Being generous to him personally perhaps his party is so toxic and divided it is impossible to lead well.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983

    The Rt Hon Dr Thérèse Coffey PC MP shows off her geographical knowledge:-

    It is important to speak in this debate. I have to say, I was somewhat astonished by the speech of the shadow Home Secretary, who cannot even get the name of the country right, talking about the Kigali Government when we are talking about Rwanda—a respected country that has recently been president of the Commonwealth.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-17/debates/87C04B7F-2159-4F09-8825-3FC68BE13256/SafetyOfRwanda(AsylumAndImmigration)Bill#contribution-925F7917-8561-4076-9627-C44126D13724

    The perfect encapsulation of the essential nature of the 2024 tory. Ignorant, arrogant, pompous, complacent, and just plain wrong with a catastrophically elevated HbA1c level.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,663

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Plays right into Trump's "I'm a victim, just like you" schtick. Getting into a name calling spat with Trump is not a winning strategy.
    Not going to play well with indies. Especially women. He's not a victim; the woman he raped WAS a victim.
    Of course, but US politics is not driven by truth or fairness. It is driven by an orange narcissist toddler who for all his limitations is good at effectively using name calling politics.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,699

    EXCLUSIVE:

    The Tories have fallen to their lowest level of support since Liz Truss was prime minister, Yougov poll for Times finds

    Support for Tories has fallen to 20%, a level not seen since October 2022 just before Truss was forced from office

    Labour has a 27 point lead

    Just 35% of 2019 Tory voters trust Sunak on migration, compared to 54% who trust Nigel Farage

    Labour: 47% (+2)
    Conservatives: 20% (-2)
    Lib Dems: 8% (-1)
    Reform: 12% (+4)
    Green: 7% (-1)


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1747750905552724159

    Why?

    Seriously.

    What would a Farage government (no joking matter) be able to do that the Conservatives can't?

    And whilst ECHR is how a current roadblock manifests itself, removing it won't make the scheme work.
    Farage can do destructive nationalism better than the Conservatives can. Why have the amateurs when you can have the expert?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,936

    Can anyone explain why it is that typos are invisible when proof-reading proposed comments, but immediately leap off the page once published and the time limit for editing has expired?

    Twas always the way.

    Recently twin B read my dad's MSC thesis which coming from the early 70s was hand typed by my mum multiple times

    Mum cheerily announced there were no typos in it as no one had ever seen one. Guess what twin B found within 2 seconds of that statement
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381
    FF43 said:

    Rwanda was never intended to solve any problem. It was intended as a wedge so one party could claim to be doing something about an intractable problem and own those squeamish about it and ask "what are you going to do about it?"

    Instead of quietly allowing the idea die once the tactical goodness had been extracted from it, the Tories have become fully invested in a clear nonsense.

    I suspect that's a lot of the problem.

    Having invested so much anger in the issue, it is all but impossible to let the scheme die in unlamented death.

    For awhile now, maybe since 2019, the Conservatives have been doing politics as if they were in opposition.

    The trouble is, they've been in government.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
    I was hoping for genuine economic competence. Not just better than Truss, that was a given, but long term planning and a proper focus on our main issues (balance of trade, investment, productivity, education).

    I think Hunt has done pretty well as Chancellor, within the boundaries set by his boss. It is Sunak who has really disappointed. The guy is genuinely bright, has a very successful career in financial services behind him and he really just doesn't seem to get it. The HS2 decision was a terrible decision for large swathes of the country. The logistics of getting around this relatively small country of ours, both for individuals and goods, are truly terrible and an inhibition of growth.

    Hunt did some good work on encouraging investment in the budget but he could and should have gone further, even at the cost of the NI cuts. No one is talking about the balance of payments. It is critical to our future standard of living and it is simply not being addressed. We need to encourage more training. There is so much to do to get this country back on the road that someone with a reasonable grounding in economics and finance should have appreciated. I'm disappointed.

    And as for this Rwanda nonsense....
    Yeah must admit I expected Sunak to be pretty good and am massively disappointed. I can't even understand the logic behind much of his decision making and especially communication. Being generous to him personally perhaps his party is so toxic and divided it is impossible to lead well.
    Yes, I have for some time thought the problem is the Party. It selected Truss, ffs.

    The trouble goes back a long way though. John Major was one of my favorite PMs. He's have done a lot better if he'd had the Party behind him. Ken Clarke was a fine PM we never had.

    What's wrong with these guys? Yeah,I know Labour picked Corbyn but that was a one off. The Tory Party is a serial offender.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Good morning all.
    It’s Venezuela versus Guyana, not Equatorial Guinea. The border between Venezuela, and Equatorial Guinea is the Atlantic Ocean!
    Well spotted. At least my HbA1c levels are spot on. I've got that going for me.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Civil courts have ruled that he sexually assaulted Carroll, but did not rape her, but that you can’t be sued for calling him a rapist because in lay language that covers someone who has committed sexual assault. As I understand it.
    That's about right.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,146

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I genuinely hope that you are right Mark and that I am wrong but so far all of Trump's many, many reverses in various courts, both criminal and civil seem to consolidated his support rather than ending it.

    Can you think of any politician in this country whose career would survive a finding that he had sexually assaulted a woman? Or that he was guilty of large scale fraud (that has already been determined, the court in the present case is simply determining the penalties), or that he was guilty or insurrection and therefore not eligible for office?

    For his supporters, these findings are simply evidence that the liberal establishment are out to get their man by fair means or foul. And, sadly, there is the smallest whiff of truth in that. The hope has to be that the independents vote for not Trump in sufficient numbers to defeat him. Again. But so far the polling is alarming.
  • Options
    TimS said:

    The Rt Hon Dr Thérèse Coffey PC MP shows off her geographical knowledge:-

    It is important to speak in this debate. I have to say, I was somewhat astonished by the speech of the shadow Home Secretary, who cannot even get the name of the country right, talking about the Kigali Government when we are talking about Rwanda—a respected country that has recently been president of the Commonwealth.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-17/debates/87C04B7F-2159-4F09-8825-3FC68BE13256/SafetyOfRwanda(AsylumAndImmigration)Bill#contribution-925F7917-8561-4076-9627-C44126D13724

    This was golden. The attempted disdain with which she delivered her take down of Cooper made it all the better.

    Everyone knows the capital of Rwanda is R.
    "I was astonished by the Labour party suggesting we were going to send refugees to Africa - Africa, as we all know, is a song by Toto."
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
    I was hoping for genuine economic competence. Not just better than Truss, that was a given, but long term planning and a proper focus on our main issues (balance of trade, investment, productivity, education).

    I think Hunt has done pretty well as Chancellor, within the boundaries set by his boss. It is Sunak who has really disappointed. The guy is genuinely bright, has a very successful career in financial services behind him and he really just doesn't seem to get it. The HS2 decision was a terrible decision for large swathes of the country. The logistics of getting around this relatively small country of ours, both for individuals and goods, are truly terrible and an inhibition of growth.

    Hunt did some good work on encouraging investment in the budget but he could and should have gone further, even at the cost of the NI cuts. No one is talking about the balance of payments. It is critical to our future standard of living and it is simply not being addressed. We need to encourage more training. There is so much to do to get this country back on the road that someone with a reasonable grounding in economics and finance should have appreciated. I'm disappointed.

    And as for this Rwanda nonsense....
    Yeah must admit I expected Sunak to be pretty good and am massively disappointed. I can't even understand the logic behind much of his decision making and especially communication. Being generous to him personally perhaps his party is so toxic and divided it is impossible to lead well.
    Not sure why anyone expected Sunak to be any good after he jacked up National Insurance as Chancellor in order to balance the books plan for an Income Tax cut before the election.

    Jacking up the taxes on productive working people in order to lower those on those who aren't working is the polar opposite of good economic management.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Good morning all.
    It’s Venezuela versus Guyana, not Equatorial Guinea. The border between Venezuela, and Equatorial Guinea is the Atlantic Ocean!
    Plus Equatorial Guinea has a defence tie-up with Israel. Unless you want to end up dead, or worse, in Black Beach prison, you don't fuck with EG. (Speaking as someone who has had multiple visits to Bioko Island.)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting NBC polling of the Iowa Republican caucus goers. Only 71% of them will vote for Trump if he is their candidate. Those who voted Haley are especially down on him.

    11% would vote Biden.

    Also, 31% think he is not fit to be the candidate if convicted of a felony.

    These are awful numbers for Trump. Plenty of Republicans won't vote MAGA.

    Were they actual Republicans though? There were suggestions that Democrats were gatecrashing the GOP caucuses in the absence of their own and in a forlorn attempt to stop Trump.
    There is always an element of that. Maximum 11% of Democrat interlopers though (those who'd vote Biden).

    But the turnout was low - and even acknowledging the weather was horrific, the enthusiasm for Trump was not overwhelming.

    The game is over for Trump if he gets a conviction as a felon before November. Interesting to see how many still peel away next month when he's clearly a fraudster in a civil case that awards the state of New York hundreds of millions in disgorgement for cooking the books. When found guilty of fraud, is the civil/criminal distinction going to be that important?

    Every reference by the Democrats to Trump is going to be preceded by "fraudster".

    I'm surprised they don't more often call him a rapist, which a civil court has ruled that he is.
    Plays right into Trump's "I'm a victim, just like you" schtick. Getting into a name calling spat with Trump is not a winning strategy.
    I'm not sure about that.

    The US media has been playing Trump's game for years, as controversy is good fur their business.
    'Fraudster and rapist Donald Trump" should be appearing regularly in headlines - and has the additional merit of being closer to the truth than anything he says.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ratters said:

    Sunak's problem is he has been unable to formulate a political strategy and execute on it consistently:

    - Is he a safe pair of hands getting the economy under control and investing for the future? Binning long-term infrastructure projects to help finance pre-election tax cuts (despite a big deficit) doesn't suggest so.

    - Are we voting for a change or continuity candidate from recent Tory governments? If the latter the 'change' offered feels very familiar.

    - Is he on the populist right or not? The Rwanda policy suggests yes, as does defining himself to be tall by law (or was that Rwanda is a safe country?). But will he be willing to go far enough to force this through the Lords and the Supreme Court such that anyone actually goes to Rwanda before the next election? I expect not, and his failure (on his own terms) here has led to Reform growing in the polls.

    It's like the reverse Boris 2019 plan. He was able to hold onto the blue wall while appealing beyond the Tory natural base. Sunak is on track to alienate the blue wall while failing to convince the types of voters Boris won over.

    Whatever change it was that we wanted, it isn’t the one we are getting.

    Competence would have been nice, for a change.
    I was hoping for genuine economic competence. Not just better than Truss, that was a given, but long term planning and a proper focus on our main issues (balance of trade, investment, productivity, education).

    I think Hunt has done pretty well as Chancellor, within the boundaries set by his boss. It is Sunak who has really disappointed. The guy is genuinely bright, has a very successful career in financial services behind him and he really just doesn't seem to get it. The HS2 decision was a terrible decision for large swathes of the country. The logistics of getting around this relatively small country of ours, both for individuals and goods, are truly terrible and an inhibition of growth.

    Hunt did some good work on encouraging investment in the budget but he could and should have gone further, even at the cost of the NI cuts. No one is talking about the balance of payments. It is critical to our future standard of living and it is simply not being addressed. We need to encourage more training. There is so much to do to get this country back on the road that someone with a reasonable grounding in economics and finance should have appreciated. I'm disappointed.

    And as for this Rwanda nonsense....
    Yeah must admit I expected Sunak to be pretty good and am massively disappointed. I can't even understand the logic behind much of his decision making and especially communication. Being generous to him personally perhaps his party is so toxic and divided it is impossible to lead well.
    It's not his fault that various timebombs have blown up in his watch, though he did back Boris and Brexit before they were cool, so he has some culpability there.

    But the main thing is the dismal short termism, of which canning HS2 is only the most extreme example.

    Is it his City background- let's extract the last drops of juice from this lemon before we ditch it? Or panic at the terrible polls?

    We all assume there will be high profile tax cuts (or attenuation of increases) in March. Setting aside that nobody likes paying more tax than necessary, is there any sign that public finances are in a position where tax cuts should be on the agenda?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    This is becoming as traditional as reporting the first cuckoo.

    I'm told multiple letters of no confidence in the prime minister went in yesterday. Rebel MPs were unhappy about the way the vote was handled by the PM being seen as a final straw. Some had held back from putting theirs in, in December.
    https://twitter.com/NatashaC/status/1747888008487932137
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,982

    Foxy said:

    @RochdalePioneers

    'VD is amazing as always.'

    Pretty unpleasant in my experience, but whatever grabs you.

    A cold of the willy...
    When a University friend of mine went for treatment (at Leicester Royal Infirmary, no less) he found the treatment room was at the end of a long corridor in where there were many patients for other maladies sitting on chairs waiting to be attended to. As he passed down the corridor, heads turned to see which department he was visiting.

    By the time he got to the bottom he was practically running.
    Was a runny bottom one of the symptoms?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Pakistan launches retaliatory strikes on Iran, with reports of seven killed"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68014882

    How long until we are sending the rest of our NLAWs to Pakistan?
    The western half of Balochistan is rough country - not ideal for armoured warfare. I have flown over the the Makran range many times and been happy not to be on the ground.

    Sunak does have his pick of wars he can get involved in to reset the electoral chess board. The SMO hasn't panned out the way anybody on either side hoped. Israel/Gaza has gone a bit genocide-y. The Hooties don't seem to give a fuck if you bomb them or not. Venezuela/Equatorial Guinea is just a harsh words from Shappsie and a single patrol boat sort of thing. But Pakistan/Iran, now that has some promise.
    Even harder to work how who the baddies are though.
    A disproportionate number of the World’s current problems, seem to have Iranian fingerprints on them.
    Buy an electric car.

    Not only are you giving the finger to the Chancellor, Big Oil and saving the planet. But you are brining forward the day that the mullahs in Iran have to learn about a real economy, not one based on the Devils Piss.
    The mullahs in Iran are going to learn about...prosecco?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    edited January 18
    Does the NY case really matter? It's not going to be resolved even when the judge hands out the verdict. DJT will just appeal the shit out of it for years. He doesn't give a fuck because his PAC is picking up the legal bills.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,233

    Can anyone explain why it is that typos are invisible when proof-reading proposed comments, but immediately leap off the page once published and the time limit for editing has expired?

    They're easier to spot when you're not looking for them?
This discussion has been closed.