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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The leaders’ TV debates: Corporeal looks at the rules

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Socrates said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted that a “Belarusian tourist bus came under fire in Rovno region (of) Ukraine (and a) Russian citizen was heavily wounded. We demand to ensure safety of civilians.”

    Protesters and opposition leaders speculated that Russia may be looking for a pretext to intervene militarily on behalf of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.

    The arrival of a Russian delegation, led by Alexey Pushkov, a representative on the Russian State Duma’s Committee on International Affairs, at a meeting in Kharkiv on Saturday of deputies from south-western Ukraine and Crimea, did little to quell fears of Russian intervention.
    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/russian-foreign-minister-blames-opposition-for-deterioration-in-kyiv-337391.html

    I sure do hope Western countries don't allow their current isolationist bout mean they allow Russia to invade Ukraine.
    Russian troops don't need to invade, they're already there. If the Russian-friendly regions break away and their local police and the Russian army on the ground are willing to defend them, what are you suggesting Western countries should do?
    I don't think the East is quite as monolithic as suggested. Wasn't Julia in an Eastern prison and aren't the guards at Donetsk airport arresting senior politicos trying to flee to Russia?
  • Sweden regularly has party leader debates, both in tv studios and in parliament. So, not just before elections.

    They generally go very smoothly, despite having 8 (yes: eight) participants. The leaders of the (by far) largest 2 parties, which includes the prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, do not get any preferential treatment or any more time. They are all amazingly civil to each other.

    The centre-right leaders - Moderates, Peoples' Party (lib), Centre Party (lib) and Christian Democrats - stand on one side. The opposition leaders - Social Democrats, Greens, Left Party and Sweden Democrats (UKIPish) - stand on the other side.
  • Sweden regularly has party leader debates, both in tv studios and in parliament. So, not just before elections.

    They generally go very smoothly, despite having 8 (yes: eight) participants. The leaders of the (by far) largest 2 parties, which includes the prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, do not get any preferential treatment or any more time. They are all amazingly civil to each other.

    The centre-right leaders - Moderates, Peoples' Party (lib), Centre Party (lib) and Christian Democrats - stand on one side. The opposition leaders - Social Democrats, Greens, Left Party and Sweden Democrats (UKIPish) - stand on the other side.

    Yup, the last Japanese election had something like 16 people in the debate. Maybe a little bit too many, but it still worked pretty well.
  • malcolmg said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Tymoshenko: "sure Ukraine will join EU"

    Wonder if it will be as impossible for them as it is supposed to be for Scotland.
    Sure it will, Cameron won't want hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Scots flooding into England. The Daily Wail wouldn't like it.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Socrates said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted that a “Belarusian tourist bus came under fire in Rovno region (of) Ukraine (and a) Russian citizen was heavily wounded. We demand to ensure safety of civilians.”

    Protesters and opposition leaders speculated that Russia may be looking for a pretext to intervene militarily on behalf of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.

    The arrival of a Russian delegation, led by Alexey Pushkov, a representative on the Russian State Duma’s Committee on International Affairs, at a meeting in Kharkiv on Saturday of deputies from south-western Ukraine and Crimea, did little to quell fears of Russian intervention.
    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/russian-foreign-minister-blames-opposition-for-deterioration-in-kyiv-337391.html

    I sure do hope Western countries don't allow their current isolationist bout mean they allow Russia to invade Ukraine.
    Russian troops don't need to invade, they're already there. If the Russian-friendly regions break away and their local police and the Russian army on the ground are willing to defend them, what are you suggesting Western countries should do?
    The danger of Putin authorising Russian troops/surrogates to effectively invade parts of the sovereign territory of Ukraine is largely twofold.

    Firstly it risks intervention at different levels against the Russian Federation with them being seen as the overt aggressor just as the old Soviet Union was so many times.

    Secondly and perhaps just as importantly it undercuts Russia's firmly enforced policy of the integrity of the borders of nation states and Russia itself in relation to aspirant secessionist states within it.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    YouGov today Con 32%, Lab 39%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%; APP -27, though the link to the details is broken. Compouter's goalpost odessey continues with no real sign of movement in any direction.

    I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    People should be allowed to belong to the country they want to belong to (yes, Scotland, too). If Western Ukraine wants to link to the EU, fine. If Crimea wants to join Russia, fine. It's not our business to tell them what to do. Certainly we should be extremely hostile to any Russian dispatch of troops to Western Ukraine, where the sympathies of the population are clearly against them. But we also shouldn't be merely the western branch of Ukrainian nationalism and assert the right of the new guys to run people who don't like them.

    My impression FWIW is that the eastern Ukraine is a bit in two minds. Ethnically they are mostly Russian-leaning, but the EU is clearly the more promising and attractive society. If the new leaders are sensible they'll offer some sort of confederation.

    Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

  • Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

    Tbf they were being strictly accurate.

    'There were smaller campaigns in eastern Anatolia, Caucasus, the Baltic Sea, the Pacific Ocean and the White Sea. In Russia, this war is also known as the "Eastern War".'
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    Re the important subject of the day: Went to 3D Lego Movie (Orange Wednesday, Seniors tickets) - excellent though action bits too fast for me -needed a pause or slow motion button to get the references.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Icarus said:

    Re the important subject of the day: Went to 3D Lego Movie (Orange Wednesday, Seniors tickets) - excellent though action bits too fast for me -needed a pause or slow motion button to get the references.

    @Icarus - "Getting Old Here"

  • Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...In contrast almost as many Labour supporters (39%) reckon that Scotland would be able to use the pound after independence as think it would not (42%). By deploying George Osborne as the principal spokesperson for the currency announcement, the No side may have served to undermine its credibility amongst Labour supporters, who of course comprise the largest portion of the unionist camp.
    Meanwhile, the EU Commission President, Mr Barroso, apparently has even less credibility in the eyes of Scots than Mr Osborne. Just 23% believe that an independent Scotland would definitely or probably be denied membership of the European Union. Even No voters are split down the middle on this issue.
    Evidently the No side needs to remember that neither UK coalition nor foreign politicians are necessarily the best advocates when it comes to trying to persuade Scots of the merits of their case. Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AndyJS said:

    Sunday Times - Tim Rice joins UKIP.

    I wonder if Tim Rice will do more than donate funds to UKIP. As a lyricist, he has a chance to add some long remembered prose to UKIP's PR output.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited February 2014



    I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    People should be allowed to belong to the country they want to belong to (yes, Scotland, too). If Western Ukraine wants to link to the EU, fine. If Crimea wants to join Russia, fine. It's not our business to tell them what to do. Certainly we should be extremely hostile to any Russian dispatch of troops to Western Ukraine, where the sympathies of the population are clearly against them. But we also shouldn't be merely the western branch of Ukrainian nationalism and assert the right of the new guys to run people who don't like them.

    My impression FWIW is that the eastern Ukraine is a bit in two minds. Ethnically they are mostly Russian-leaning, but the EU is clearly the more promising and attractive society. If the new leaders are sensible they'll offer some sort of confederation.

    Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

    On Crimea, it's not quite that simple as there is significant strategic interest in Russia having a warm water port (although, IIRC, the ousted goverment signed a long-lease on the site a few years ago, so it may be a moot point).

    Additionally, I'm not sure we should necessarily be advocating the break-up of states willy-nilly at a time of crisis. Stability has its value: perhaps the answer is a few years as a unitary state and then a referendum to figure out where people want to go?

    (And, to be fair, the Crimean war was also fought in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey! From memory, wasn't Florence Nightingale based at Scutari in Turkey? That said, people - if anything - know about Balaclava, Sevastapol and maybe, if we are lucky, Alma.)

  • Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

    The only problem is that Darling has lost control of the No campaign truck. Osborne and Alexander are in the driving seats. An ugly motorway collision is inevitable. The driver was high on a cocktail of coke, 25 year old Islay malt and inflated self-importance. There was not enough remaining of the red-topped political cadaver in the passenger seat to be able to conduct post-mortem analysis.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    You Gov lead back to 7.

    Meaning whether you measure the week as S-F or T-S the average lead this week is 6.0%

    Crossover Kids no joy yet
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited February 2014
    MikeK said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sunday Times - Tim Rice joins UKIP.

    I wonder if Tim Rice will do more than donate funds to UKIP. As a lyricist, he has a chance to add some long remembered prose to UKIP's PR output.


    "Nigel Farage - I Don't Know How To Love Him"


    I don't know how to vote Nige,
    What to do, how to move him.
    I've been changed, yes, really changed.
    In these past weeks of floods when I've seen myself
    I seem like someone else.

    I don't know how to take this
    I don't see why his wellies moves me.
    He's a man, he's just a man.
    And I've seen so many floods before
    In very many ways:
    This is just one more

    Should I bow down before him? Should I scream and shout?
    Should I speak of love - let my feelings out?
    I never thought I'd come to this - what's UKIP all about?

    Don't you think it's rather funny
    I should be in this position?
    I'm the one who's always been
    So calm, so cool, no EU fool
    Running every show
    He scares me so.

    I never thought I'd come to this - what's Farage all about

    Yet, if he said he wanted my vote
    I'd be lost, I'd be frightened.
    I couldn't cope, just couldn't cope.
    I'd turn my head, I'd back away,
    I wouldn't want to know -
    He scares me so.
    Why does he want my vote so.
    Do I vote Nige so.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The Crimean war was really as a result of Russian expansionism in the Balkans as the Ottoman empire withered away, and there is a case that WW1 was also:http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674072336

    It would have been a very different twentieth century if the czars had Constantinople as a Russian city, With the Hagia Sofia restored to an orthodox cathedral.
    Charles said:



    I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    People should be allowed to belong to the country they want to belong to (yes, Scotland, too). If Western Ukraine wants to link to the EU, fine. If Crimea wants to join Russia, fine. It's not our business to tell them what to do. Certainly we should be extremely hostile to any Russian dispatch of troops to Western Ukraine, where the sympathies of the population are clearly against them. But we also shouldn't be merely the western branch of Ukrainian nationalism and assert the right of the new guys to run people who don't like them.

    My impression FWIW is that the eastern Ukraine is a bit in two minds. Ethnically they are mostly Russian-leaning, but the EU is clearly the more promising and attractive society. If the new leaders are sensible they'll offer some sort of confederation.

    Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

    On Crimea, it's not quite that simple as there is significant strategic interest in Russia having a warm water port (although, IIRC, the ousted goverment signed a long-lease on the site a few years ago, so it may be a moot point).

    Additionally, I'm not sure we should necessarily be advocating the break-up of states willy-nilly at a time of crisis. Stability has its value: perhaps the answer is a few years as a unitary state and then a referendum to figure out where people want to go?

    (And, to be fair, the Crimean war was also fought in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey! From memory, wasn't Florence Nightingale based at Scutari in Turkey? That said, people - if anything - know about Balaclava, Sevastapol and maybe, if we are lucky, Alma.)

  • Good morning, everyone.

    Feels odd to have no Six Nations rugby on a weekend when they've played matches.

    Anyway, my next F1 piece, probably the last pre-season, will go up after the third test. That's 27 February to 2 March, so it makes more sense to wait a few days instead of writing an article now and a second in a week or so.

  • I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    Oh dear, the [soon-to-be] Tromso Troll has crawled-out from under his low-lying bridge. No-one should be surprised of this case of foot-in-mouth verbiage; not least from a backbencher who cheered on a Parliamentary assault on opposition forces led by the Armed-Wing-of-the-Labour-Party/Met-Polis (c.f. Damian Green).

    Can anyone else remember his reaction to the continued persecution of his political opponents once his cabal were kicked-out of English governance: Did he not find that the Met's stitch-up of a leading government minister "Hilarious"? What a [MODERATED} Sven-like [MODERATED] eejit the [MODERATED] is....
  • Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

    The only problem is that Darling has lost control of the No campaign truck. Osborne and Alexander are in the driving seats. An ugly motorway collision is inevitable. The driver was high on a cocktail of coke, 25 year old Islay malt and inflated self-importance. There was not enough remaining of the red-topped political cadaver in the passenger seat to be able to conduct post-mortem analysis.
    I like your metaphor of Osborne's juggernaut in a high speed motorway collision with Eck's rusty Reliant Robin.

  • Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

    The only problem is that Darling has lost control of the No campaign truck. Osborne and Alexander are in the driving seats. An ugly motorway collision is inevitable. The driver was high on a cocktail of coke, 25 year old Islay malt and inflated self-importance. There was not enough remaining of the red-topped political cadaver in the passenger seat to be able to conduct post-mortem analysis.
    I like your metaphor of Osborne's juggernaut in a high speed motorway collision with Eck's rusty Reliant Robin.

    Au contraire. It is a looming single-vehicle accident. The No teams' gaping wounds to date are almost entirely self-inflicted. The yes team are looking on agog as pro-Union proponents do their work for them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    MikeK said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sunday Times - Tim Rice joins UKIP.

    I wonder if Tim Rice will do more than donate funds to UKIP. As a lyricist, he has a chance to add some long remembered prose to UKIP's PR output.

    If you got Andrew Lloyd Webber, you could have a musical about a heroic man, cruelly disfigured in a plane crash on the very day he should have got victory. The crash gives him amnesia that prevents him from remembering the contents of a piece of paper he signed a few weeks before. His only possession is a burnt scrap of the UKIP manifesto.

    Nursed back to health by his aides, including Godfrey Bloom, Priti Patel, and a banker, can he remember his prospectus and save Britain before the evil forces of the EU overrun the country? Will Bloom fall in love with Patel, and will the four manage to reconstruct the manifesto and save Britain from the oncoming EUgeddon?

    Some songs:
    It's best to be British!
    Let's pound the euro!
    No racists here!
    The Blooming Blooms of April.
    The rainbow floods of Christmas.

    and an instrumental: a homage to old-fashioned train liveries, set to a medley of hissing steam and Vulcan bombers.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    Charles said:



    I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    People should be allowed to belong to the country they want to belong to (yes, Scotland, too). If Western Ukraine wants to link to the EU, fine. If Crimea wants to join Russia, fine. It's not our business to tell them what to do. Certainly we should be extremely hostile to any Russian dispatch of troops to Western Ukraine, where the sympathies of the population are clearly against them. But we also shouldn't be merely the western branch of Ukrainian nationalism and assert the right of the new guys to run people who don't like them.

    My impression FWIW is that the eastern Ukraine is a bit in two minds. Ethnically they are mostly Russian-leaning, but the EU is clearly the more promising and attractive society. If the new leaders are sensible they'll offer some sort of confederation.

    Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

    On Crimea, it's not quite that simple as there is significant strategic interest in Russia having a warm water port (although, IIRC, the ousted goverment signed a long-lease on the site a few years ago, so it may be a moot point).

    Additionally, I'm not sure we should necessarily be advocating the break-up of states willy-nilly at a time of crisis. Stability has its value: perhaps the answer is a few years as a unitary state and then a referendum to figure out where people want to go?

    (And, to be fair, the Crimean war was also fought in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey! From memory, wasn't Florence Nightingale based at Scutari in Turkey? That said, people - if anything - know about Balaclava, Sevastapol and maybe, if we are lucky, Alma.)

    There is an Alma road in St Albans, which turns into Beaconsfield Road.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

    The only problem is that Darling has lost control of the No campaign truck. Osborne and Alexander are in the driving seats. An ugly motorway collision is inevitable. The driver was high on a cocktail of coke, 25 year old Islay malt and inflated self-importance. There was not enough remaining of the red-topped political cadaver in the passenger seat to be able to conduct post-mortem analysis.
    Glad you acknowledge Darling is leading the 'No' campaign.

    I guess that means you agree that he is the right person to debate whichever nominee that the Yes side want to put forward, not Cameron.
  • Charles said:

    Some comfort for both camps in the latest ICM indy poll, with a sting in the tail.

    'Second Post-Currency Row Poll: Still No Clear Impact

    ...Maybe the next time they have something important to say they would be better off getting their leader, Mr Darling, to say it?'

    http://tinyurl.com/o72mobz

    The only problem is that Darling has lost control of the No campaign truck. Osborne and Alexander are in the driving seats. An ugly motorway collision is inevitable. The driver was high on a cocktail of coke, 25 year old Islay malt and inflated self-importance. There was not enough remaining of the red-topped political cadaver in the passenger seat to be able to conduct post-mortem analysis.
    Glad you acknowledge Darling is leading the 'No' campaign.

    I guess that means you agree that he is the right person to debate whichever nominee that the Yes side want to put forward, not Cameron.
    Ho ho. Nice to see you chaps still haven't got the slightest clue about the task you face.

    Tally ho. Once more into the breach...

    I must look up which side eventually won that war.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Harfleur
  • Anecdote alert.

    I was party to some canvass returns the other day. Let's just say this: No backers may want to review their trading positions, because if the information I was given was anywhere near the true position out there in the cities, towns, villages, housing estates and rural areas of the country then the current Yes/No prices are wrong. Very, very wrong.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    Crimean War not just in Crimea - yes, I know (I'm a wargamer), but I'm not convinced the newspaper knew! Perhaps I'm doing them in injustice.

    The Scottish polls look fairly stable again. I'm sure the voters are right that Scotland wouldn't be kept out of the EU - though there might be an insistence that they take the Euro if they want to join. More generally, it's probably in the "No" camp's interest that they don't shake things up further with more dramatic initiatives - the position remains that they will probably win if nothing big changes, and initiatives can go wrong...

    For the GE, I'm struck again in my canvassing by how few "don't knows" there are out there compared with past years. People seem to have largely made their minds up, except for those who, once one gets past the polite waffle ("I'll study the literature, no doubt" - yeah, right), actually admit they don't usually vote at all. As with the referendum, it may take something big (not just modest economic changes, for instance) to shift opinion in any direction.
  • Charles said:



    I'd resist Socrates' simplistic good guys/bad guys division (there have been reports of violence against Yanukovych supporters too though in general it's all gone peacefully): it's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    People should be allowed to belong to the country they want to belong to (yes, Scotland, too). If Western Ukraine wants to link to the EU, fine. If Crimea wants to join Russia, fine. It's not our business to tell them what to do. Certainly we should be extremely hostile to any Russian dispatch of troops to Western Ukraine, where the sympathies of the population are clearly against them. But we also shouldn't be merely the western branch of Ukrainian nationalism and assert the right of the new guys to run people who don't like them.

    My impression FWIW is that the eastern Ukraine is a bit in two minds. Ethnically they are mostly Russian-leaning, but the EU is clearly the more promising and attractive society. If the new leaders are sensible they'll offer some sort of confederation.

    Incidentlally, I enjoyed the broadsheet report yesterday (forget which one) which explained "The Crimean War was mostly fought in Crimea." Ah!

    On Crimea, it's not quite that simple as there is significant strategic interest in Russia having a warm water port (although, IIRC, the ousted goverment signed a long-lease on the site a few years ago, so it may be a moot point).

    Additionally, I'm not sure we should necessarily be advocating the break-up of states willy-nilly at a time of crisis. Stability has its value: perhaps the answer is a few years as a unitary state and then a referendum to figure out where people want to go?

    (And, to be fair, the Crimean war was also fought in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey! From memory, wasn't Florence Nightingale based at Scutari in Turkey? That said, people - if anything - know about Balaclava, Sevastapol and maybe, if we are lucky, Alma.)

    Don't forget the Baltic! So far the only Crimean war site I have been to is Sveaborg. Well worth a visit if you are in Helsinki (now known as Suomenlinna). Even has its own microbrewery.

    Florence Nightingale's gaff is still an operational Turkish military facility, now the district is known as Kadikoy rather than Uskudar. You can't really get close to it - I got warned off by an armed guard when trying to take a photo. Really the Turks don't do enough to encourage tourism other than the sitting-on-a-beach-and-eating-kebab variety.

  • Anecdote alert.

    I was party to some canvass returns the other day. Let's just say this: No backers may want to review their trading positions, because if the information I was given was anywhere near the true position out there in the cities, towns, villages, housing estates and rural areas of the country then the current Yes/No prices are wrong. Very, very wrong.

    Rumour is a lying Swede.
  • It's worth bearing in mind that the entire transition from Soviet quasi-empire to the current quasi-democracy in Russia was achieved largely peacefully too (apart from Yeltsin's tank assault on the Parliament, which mysteriously the West thought was OK).

    Given there was a pro-Communist ant-democracy coup happening at the time, and the perpetrators theoretically had the Soviet security apparatus on their side, it seems reasonable. Your problem with it is?

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I think we can now all take whatever the Labour Party says about the floods with a pinch of salt.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565672/Hard-work-Mexico-Ed-Milibands-flood-supremo-basks-85C-sun-kissed-jolly-Britons-count-cost-deluge.html
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    With Tramadol rations running low and no end in sight, me and the squirrel march endlessly knowing our plight to be continuous. Will the PB Hodges ever get anything right regards the polling crossover? Will there be a day when the information in the yellow boxes are relevant to anyone but the PB Hodges? Do the voters realise the wrath they will reap from the PB Hodges if the goalposts are still being carried come election night? Will there be enough teeth to gnash when the words"and that win takes Labour into government" come May 2015? Will we ever see the lines "I was wrong" and "when I said Ed Miliband would not be PM" placed together in a PB Hodges reality check? So many polling crossover predictions and yet so many failures.

    Onward Christian Squirrels!

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2010/1/8/1262962773146/goal-hanging-squirrel-001.jpg

    PS...Don't mention the Yougov poll....look, squirrel.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,150
    edited February 2014
    Charles said:


    Glad you acknowledge Darling is leading the 'No' campaign.

    Er, isn't Stuart saying almost entirely the opposite?
  • Anecdote alert.

    I was party to some canvass returns the other day. Let's just say this: No backers may want to review their trading positions, because if the information I was given was anywhere near the true position out there in the cities, towns, villages, housing estates and rural areas of the country then the current Yes/No prices are wrong. Very, very wrong.

    Rumour is a lying Swede.
    Being called a liar by PBs worst serial liar. That makes me a reliable reporter.
  • Charles said:


    Glad you acknowledge Darling is leading the 'No' campaign.

    Er, isn't Stuart saying entirely the opposite?
    Don't point out the obvious fallacies of their posts. It just confuses the poor dears.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Particularly anyone (Labour or otherwise) who claims that dredging the rivers on the Levels would not help prevent flooding.

    ROFL, etc.

    And Lord Smith is going to be in charge of newspaper regulation? God help us.
  • Politician takes holiday.

    In other news, dog bites man.
  • Politician takes holiday.

    In other news, dog bites man.
    Unless of course it is a Tory politician
  • Politician takes holiday.

    In other news, dog bites man.
    Politician takes bribe.
    In other news, Labour politician goes on an all expenses paid Mexican junket.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Flint trying to defend Labour on energy - no questions of why competition in the market diminished under the last Lab government. (yet).
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Anecdote alert.

    I was party to some canvass returns the other day. Let's just say this: No backers may want to review their trading positions, because if the information I was given was anywhere near the true position out there in the cities, towns, villages, housing estates and rural areas of the country then the current Yes/No prices are wrong. Very, very wrong.

    I recall, with a modicum of chuckleness be repressed, that Conservative canvass returns being reported in the 97 general election as indicating in the marginals a return of the John Major administration ....

    Fails to suppress titters any longer ....

    OTOH .... two polls today show YES leading by 12 and 14 points .... Your canvassers need to stray away from the Western Isles and Eck's family members in Banffshire !!

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    We are really seeing the benefits of the union nowadays:
    SCOTLAND's biggest food bank has run out of food as the number of poverty-stricken Scots turning to food banks for help reaches its hightest level ever.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/the-food-bank-with-no-food.23509422
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Miliband says that PMQs hits at politics' reputation.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26311315

    "I think it was President Obama who said you can disagree without being disagreeable and in a way maybe that's a sort of lesson for Prime Minister's Questions."

    So I assume that he is going to apologise to Mitchell, whose problems he used in two PMQs, despite the story obviously being doubtful at best?
  • Mr. Jessop, quite. Miliband is an opportunistic little shit.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    MikeK said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sunday Times - Tim Rice joins UKIP.

    I wonder if Tim Rice will do more than donate funds to UKIP. As a lyricist, he has a chance to add some long remembered prose to UKIP's PR output.


    "Nigel Farage - I Don't Know How To Love Him"


    I don't know how to vote Nige,
    What to do, how to move him.
    I've been changed, yes, really changed.
    In these past weeks of floods when I've seen myself
    I seem like someone else.

    I don't know how to take this
    I don't see why his wellies moves me.
    He's a man, he's just a man.
    And I've seen so many floods before
    In very many ways:
    This is just one more

    Should I bow down before him? Should I scream and shout?
    Should I speak of love - let my feelings out?
    I never thought I'd come to this - what's UKIP all about?

    Don't you think it's rather funny
    I should be in this position?
    I'm the one who's always been
    So calm, so cool, no EU fool
    Running every show
    He scares me so.

    I never thought I'd come to this - what's Farage all about

    Yet, if he said he wanted my vote
    I'd be lost, I'd be frightened.
    I couldn't cope, just couldn't cope.
    I'd turn my head, I'd back away,
    I wouldn't want to know -
    He scares me so.
    Why does he want my vote so.
    Do I vote Nige so.
    Well, JackW, thats rather good. You should send the above lyrics to UKIP HQ immediately; they may even send you a bob or two. ;)
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited February 2014

    Mr. Jessop, quite. Miliband is an opportunistic little shit.

    Hence Sven's furtive [re-]appointment to Broxtowe. Maybe Milli'unt Jnr needs advice on paying into the Swiss tax-system...?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469

    Mr. Jessop, quite. Miliband is an opportunistic little shit.

    There's more on the gategate scandal in the Sunday Times: it seems the IPCC may not agree that there was no collusion between officers.

    And don't forget the Met Police Federation's chair, John Tully, use of the story to say Cameron was not sincere ("hollow words") in paying his respects to the two policewomen who were shot dead.
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