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Is a negative campaign against Starmer really going to work? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited December 2023 in General
imageIs a negative campaign against Starmer really going to work? – politicalbetting.com

There are a lot of reports around at the moment about how the Tories think they can fight the election by going negative against Starmer. We see this in Sunak’s regular efforts at PMQs when he tries to make Starmer’s role while working for the then LAB leader, Corbyn, into an issue.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited December 2023
    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    It’s not working, but that’s not stopping @isam.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Banker vs lawyer.
    Alien vs predator?
  • Options
    Keir Starmer = François Hollande
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    It’s not working, but that’s not stopping @isam.

    Being called a mug has really got under your skin! I almost feel like apologising
  • Options

    Banker vs lawyer.
    Alien vs predator?

    Tomorrow morning's piece is about Starmer being a lawyer.
  • Options
    Not flash. Just Keir.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    edited December 2023
    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    edited December 2023

    Keir Starmer = François Hollande

    Sir Keir- Savile is a winner. One the genius campaigner Boris squeezed out several years ago.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    The Tories can point out Sir Keir’s multiple inconsistent statements, his u-turns on things he calls ‘principles’, his support for people he then expels, etc etc but I don’t think it will work.

    No one likes the Tories, neither the party or the leader. They’ve ripped themselves to shreds and have nothing to offer; they’re not radical or Conservative, sensible or charismatic. They don’t seem to like each other so why should anyone like them?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Not flash. Just Keir.

    "Hi, I'm your horny host, I'm big as a post, and warm as toast"
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited December 2023
    The attacks on Keir by the Tories, and their outriders on here, are risible.

    There *are* attacks which stand a chance of landing, but I don’t see them pushed by the Tory-Retard industrial complex.
  • Options

    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


    Even if they don't, they like Hedge Fund Bankers even less.

    What, exactly, was Badenoch's proper job?
  • Options
    isam said:

    The Tories can point out Sir Keir’s multiple inconsistent statements, his u-turns on things he calls ‘principles’, his support for people he then expels, etc etc but I don’t think it will work.

    No one likes the Tories, neither the party or the leader. They’ve ripped themselves to shreds and have nothing to offer; they’re not radical or Conservative, sensible or charismatic. They don’t seem to like each other so why should anyone like them?

    Tories low tax or high tax? Pro migration or against it? Pro HS2 or against it? Pro high pay or low pay for nurses and teachers?

    Inconsistency really wont stand a chance.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,504
    As to Mr Smithson's exact question the answer depends on who is running the negative campaign. There is more or less Zero chance of a Tory anti-Starmer campaign working.

    As is customary the chief opposition to and campaigning against a Labour success comes from the Labour party, whose capacity to oppose itself is legendary. It is not impossible that some sort of Burgon/Abbott/Jezza axis could pull the trick off once more.

    Bet accordingly.

  • Options
    Setting attack dogs onto Starmer strikes me as memorably ludicrous. Staggeringly misguided. One of the cynical mantras of the Labour Party in the 1960s was for candidates to "dress right and talk left", i.e. mouth the platitudes about nationalisation, but look and sound like the Duke of Edinburgh. That's exactly what Starmer is doing (absent the blathering about nationalisation). He looks and sounds perfectly harmless; indeed, he probably is. It doesn't really matter - he's not a Corbyn or a Livingstone or even a Foot. He's impossible to dislike - that's not to say that everyone likes him, just that he's bland and inoffensive.

    Amongst the wide range of people in my social circle (i.e. Mrs Carp) his politics aren't particularly popular or impressive, but as a professional man with a smart suit and a decent haircut he's unimpeachable. Of all the things going wrong with Britain today, "Lefty Lawyers" isn't in the Top Ten. Indeed, when Starmer responds by saying how tough he was as a Public Prosecutor, the Tory attacks might actually play to his strengths. And when all else fails, at least he isn't an ex Goldman Sachs investment banker with a Green Card.

    Incidentally, the Times interview with Ed Davey today might impress a few people, even if they don't vote for him. His back story is positively Dickensian in his struggle to overcome setbacks that would pole-axe most of us. The online comments are particularly revealing - especially in their hostility to attack-dog politics.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited December 2023

    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


    Even if they don't, they like Hedge Fund Bankers even less.

    What, exactly, was Badenoch's proper job?
    She appears to have been in IT.

    Software engineer, Logica.
    Systems analyst, RBS.
    “Associate Director”, Coutts.
    Digital director, Spectator.

    Suspect the Coutts job was a tech job, not a finance job, but in Britain’s weird caste system it’s more prestigious to pretend otherwise.

    I don’t mind Kemi, or at least, I don’t mind the concept of Kemi. She doesn’t appear born to grotesque privilege like most of the Tory circus.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,504
    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636
    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    The Tories might as well take comfort in Auden and let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead,
    scribbling on the sky the message 'We are Dead' because as far as their election prospects are concerned nothing now can ever come to any good.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530
    O/T

    "Guyana, Venezuela agree to not use force or escalate tensions in Esequibo dispute"

    https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-guyana-presidents-meet-amid-territorial-dispute-2023-12-14/
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
  • Options

    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


    Even if they don't, they like Hedge Fund Bankers even less.

    What, exactly, was Badenoch's proper job?
    She appears to have been in IT.

    Software engineer, Logica.
    Systems analyst, RBS.
    “Associate Director”, Coutts.
    Digital director, Spectator.

    Suspect the Coutts job was a tech job, not a finance job, but in Britain’s weird caste system it’s more prestigious to pretend otherwise.

    I don’t mind Kemi, or at least, I don’t mind the concept of Kemi. She doesn’t appear born to grotesque privilege like most of the Tory circus.
    So when I was a customer of Coutts so was Nigel Farage and Kemi was working for Coutts.

    What a shit bank, I am so glad I left.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ...

    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


    It turned out to be inaccurate too. Instead he took us back to pre-Common Market 1973.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    Being one of Putin's catamites does that to the brain.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636
    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    If they had a Captain Hindsight on their team they'd know not to.
  • Options
    maxhmaxh Posts: 825
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think this is right, with just a sprinkling of red meat (if that isn’t too mangled an analogy) for the labour left in the manifesto. Some sort of obvious but cheap nationalisation (water in 2035 or some such) that blunts the attacks of the BJOs of this world.

    I have for a long time thought that the strategy is to manage expectations so strongly that an otherwise lightweight manifesto will seem positively ambitious because it surprises on the upside.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636

    Keir Starmer = François Hollande

    Voters: "François who?"
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,386
    @Leon - as you're around, was reflecting today in the joys of living at 53 degrees north in winter. A beautiful sunrise has segued seamlessly into a stunning sunset; the colours in the sky have been a succession of astonishing. The air is cold and crisp and fresh. And now the daylight has gone the night is sparkly and bright against frosty ground ( though a couple of degrees colder wouldn't go amiss to really get the benefit).
    There was a queue of people in Sale waiting to wonder at this view of what is normally a fairly humdrum bit of sky:


    I'm not dismissing your SAD - but days like this I feel very fortunate to be so far from tge equator.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
  • Options
    Talking about diseased brains, what about the IDF executing people holding white flags who then turned out to be Israeli hostages taken by Hamas.

    Never seen a country admit to committing a war crime before.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,386
    Cookie said:

    @Leon - as you're around, was reflecting today in the joys of living at 53 degrees north in winter. A beautiful sunrise has segued seamlessly into a stunning sunset; the colours in the sky have been a succession of astonishing. The air is cold and crisp and fresh. And now the daylight has gone the night is sparkly and bright against frosty ground ( though a couple of degrees colder wouldn't go amiss to really get the benefit).
    There was a queue of people in Sale waiting to wonder at this view of what is normally a fairly humdrum bit of sky:


    I'm not dismissing your SAD - but days like this I feel very fortunate to be so far from tge equator.

    And not only that, but Stockport County won 8-0.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    How is it having a bigger brain to (a) inhabit the lower sewers of the very online anti-Semitic left, and (b) be sufficiently morally depleted to recommend something like this as a campaigning strategy?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    So, if the Houtis hit and damage, or Heaven forbid, sink, a British warship in international waters, what would be our government's reaction? The country's?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67738032
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636
    We must be due an Opinium this week surely?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    No, it is weaponising the anti-Semitism of the Left to win an election with nasty, negative campaigning (the theme of your header)

    Don't come over all Mister Innocent (for a start, he's had enough, frankly), this is an adult political site for adults discussing politics
  • Options

    Keir Starmer = François Hollande

    Sir Keir- Savile is a winner. One the genius campaigner Boris squeezed out several years ago.
    You want to mention Savile with Starmer?

    Brave.
  • Options

    So, if the Houtis hit and damage, or Heaven forbid, sink, a British warship in international waters, what would be our government's reaction? The country's?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67738032

    The Houtis get to experience Trident in action.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
  • Options

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Time to reclaim Aden.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    No, it is weaponising the anti-Semitism of the Left to win an election with nasty, negative campaigning (the theme of your header)

    Don't come over all Mister Innocent (for a start, he's had enough, frankly), this is an adult political site for adults discussing politics
    I see you cannot read either.

    This isn't my header.

    The rather big bold letters at the bottom tells intelligent people that Mike Smithson wrote this piece.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    Talking about diseased brains, what about the IDF executing people holding white flags who then turned out to be Israeli hostages taken by Hamas.

    Never seen a country admit to committing a war crime before.

    I'm not well up on the Geneva Convention, but is the summary execution of your own prisoners of war even a war crime?

    The usual PB suspects would under normal circumstances cry "but Hamas started it, with what they did on October 7", but that doesn't really count here.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    The diseased bit is the idea that the government should do this- go with "we all know that we're utterly ghastly and need to be kicked out of office BUT LOOK AT THE OTHER LOT."

    It's probably all they've got, but that doesn't make it right. Wind up antisemitic angst, to what end? Reducing the Labour majority by a dozen or so?
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    How is it having a bigger brain to (a) inhabit the lower sewers of the very online anti-Semitic left, and (b) be sufficiently morally depleted to recommend something like this as a campaigning strategy?
    Is PB really going to lapse into a pathetic hissy fit of offended morality? Really?? Spare us

    Labour was prepared to be overtly anti-Semitic itself, against Michael Howard

    I am merely, amd more cunningly, suggesting that the Tories should shed some light on the less savoury elements on Starmer's left
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
    That was a disgrace but not as bad as Labour's efforts.

    I was more outraged at Labour portraying the Jews Howard and Letwin as pigs.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Barely hidden anger towards the current regime seems…not unreasonable?
  • Options
    Everyone loves Keir.

    LAB maj 30. LAB fans should be very pleased with that 👍
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    Time to reclaim Aden.

    That would be a great Falklands Factor war for Rishi to get his landslide. Yemen would be a push over.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    The diseased bit is the idea that the government should do this- go with "we all know that we're utterly ghastly and need to be kicked out of office BUT LOOK AT THE OTHER LOT."

    It's probably all they've got, but that doesn't make it right. Wind up antisemitic angst, to what end? Reducing the Labour majority by a dozen or so?
    The header is Will Negative Campaigning Against Starmer Work

    My thesis is no (see below) not if it comes from the Tories. People are bored of the Tories and the Tories after 13 mediocre years in power have no basis for attacks

    However negative campaigning by proxy might be more effective. Illuminate the shady elements of pro-Hamas Labour, who are - right now - complaining that Starmer is steered by his Jewish wife

    Nasty? Yes. Effective? Might be. Also possibly justifiable: people need to see what lurks in Labour, still
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
    I’ll defend that.
    I never saw it as anti-Semitic and I’m not sure 99.9% knew or cared that Howard was ethnically Jewish somehow, including whoever came up with the campaign.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,504

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Appearances can be deceptive. If Cameron had been administratively competent he would still be Prime Minister. Admin is boring but it requires not making egregious errors, like failing to prepare properly for the exactly two possible outcomes from the Referendum.

    The whole point about PM when you acknowledge that your own party that you lead has two views on a key issue and that the nation must decide is that you are absolutely ready for both outcomes, personally in terms of being prepared to carry on, and admin wise by having a deeply coherent plan. If no such plan is possible you either don't call a referendum or you say in public no plan is possible.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
    It doesn’t resonate.
    Not with anyone sentient (which admittedly does not include current Tory supporters).

    It’s up there with the pathetic attacks on Cameron by the dying Brown administration.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    You must be some kind of genius to detect all of that in a post comparing Starmer to May.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
    I’ll defend that.
    I never saw it as anti-Semitic and I’m not sure 99.9% knew or cared that Howard was ethnically Jewish somehow, including whoever came up with the campaign.
    Ah, the age old "it's not anti-Semitic cause I didn't notice any anti-Semitism" as used by Jezbollah Corbyn himself when confronted with a mural from Der Sturmer's 1938 Home Furnishing Catalogue
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    The diseased bit is the idea that the government should do this- go with "we all know that we're utterly ghastly and need to be kicked out of office BUT LOOK AT THE OTHER LOT."

    It's probably all they've got, but that doesn't make it right. Wind up antisemitic angst, to what end? Reducing the Labour majority by a dozen or so?
    The header is Will Negative Campaigning Against Starmer Work

    My thesis is no (see below) not if it comes from the Tories. People are bored of the Tories and the Tories after 13 mediocre years in power have no basis for attacks

    However negative campaigning by proxy might be more effective. Illuminate the shady elements of pro-Hamas Labour, who are - right now - complaining that Starmer is steered by his Jewish wife

    Nasty? Yes. Effective? Might be. Also possibly justifiable: people need to see what lurks in Labour, still
    They might find the wife angle a little tricky when Sunak's is an Infosys heiress and the India-UK trade deal is still up in the air.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Appearances can be deceptive. If Cameron had been administratively competent he would still be Prime Minister. Admin is boring but it requires not making egregious errors, like failing to prepare properly for the exactly two possible outcomes from the Referendum.

    The whole point about PM when you acknowledge that your own party that you lead has two views on a key issue and that the nation must decide is that you are absolutely ready for both outcomes, personally in terms of being prepared to carry on, and admin wise by having a deeply coherent plan. If no such plan is possible you either don't call a referendum or you say in public no plan is possible.

    Absolutely, Cameron was a very good chairman and half decent retail politician.

    But he was not (Lansley, Brexit) at all a good administrator.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Barely hidden anger towards the current regime seems…not unreasonable?
    Actually the only reasonable sentiment is outright anger.
    Barely hidden implies one cares about the opinion of people for whom anger is not the instinctive position.
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
    It doesn’t resonate.
    Not with anyone sentient (which admittedly does not include current Tory supporters).

    It’s up there with the pathetic attacks on Cameron by the dying Brown administration.
    Oh, it does.

    It absolutely does.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,947

    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
    It doesn’t resonate.
    Not with anyone sentient (which admittedly does not include current Tory supporters).

    It’s up there with the pathetic attacks on Cameron by the dying Brown administration.
    Someone on Twitter has been keeping a count of policy announcement reversals (or flip-flops) that this Government has done.

    Found the latest one

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1734622061576765665

    107 UTurns, pledges reversed, policies scrapped, promises abandoned, under #Sunak.

    333 since Tories Elected in Dec 2019.

    #Sunak stated just a day ago that the #Rwanda Bill was as tight as he could possibly make it.

    Today he promised to rebel MPs to “further tighten” The Bill.
  • Options

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    You must be some kind of genius to detect all of that in a post comparing Starmer to May.
    You're projecting, like many others, on what you'd like Starmer to be. It's confirmation bias at its purest.

    You will be gravely disappointed.
  • Options

    Time to reclaim Aden.

    You are Mad Mitch, and I claim my five pounds.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ...

    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
    You hubristic lefties are assuming Starmer has won already. He hasn't!
  • Options
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Barely hidden anger towards the current regime seems…not unreasonable?
    Yes, until the next regime turns up and the same shit continues.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    kinabalu said:

    Perhaps the Tories will reuse the devastating "Captain Hindsight".

    Very accurate, though. And resonates with voters.

    He will flip-flop a lot in office.
    It doesn’t resonate.
    Not with anyone sentient (which admittedly does not include current Tory supporters).

    It’s up there with the pathetic attacks on Cameron by the dying Brown administration.
    Oh, it does.

    It absolutely does.
    It does with you, because you’re a loon.
    But it doesn’t do anything electorally, because the Tories already have the loon vote, with the very loon vote now flaming off to Reform.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474

    No because the Tories are going to try and portray Starmer as a lefty lawyer but the country loves a lawyer.

    It'll be as successful as this.


    Even if they don't, they like Hedge Fund Bankers even less.

    What, exactly, was Badenoch's proper job?
    Business Minister, and she's crap at it.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,532
    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
    I’ll defend that.
    I never saw it as anti-Semitic and I’m not sure 99.9% knew or cared that Howard was ethnically Jewish somehow, including whoever came up with the campaign.
    Ah, the age old "it's not anti-Semitic cause I didn't notice any anti-Semitism" as used by Jezbollah Corbyn himself when confronted with a mural from Der Sturmer's 1938 Home Furnishing Catalogue
    There’s no impartial scale for these things.
    But I think to any reasonable person (ie me), that particular campaign was merely a pisspoor attempt to cast Howard as a dodgy end-of-pier mesmerist.

    “Are you thinking what I’m thinking” was of course a much classier piece of politickry.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    Barely hidden anger towards the current regime seems…not unreasonable?
    Yes, until the next regime turns up and the same shit continues.
    What about a poster picturing Starmer with demon eyes? That might work.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    You must be some kind of genius to detect all of that in a post comparing Starmer to May.
    You're projecting, like many others, on what you'd like Starmer to be. It's confirmation bias at its purest.

    You will be gravely disappointed.
    Au contraire, I pointed out his flaws.
    They will certainly be his nemesis.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,504

    Talking about diseased brains, what about the IDF executing people holding white flags who then turned out to be Israeli hostages taken by Hamas.

    Never seen a country admit to committing a war crime before.

    I'm not well up on the Geneva Convention, but is the summary execution of your own prisoners of war even a war crime?

    The usual PB suspects would under normal circumstances cry "but Hamas started it, with what they did on October 7", but that doesn't really count here.
    The 'Hamas started it on 7th Oct' thing is obviously both false its lots of ways and true in one particular way.

    The real difficulty in getting a purchase on how to start (if you don't pick on a recent date like 7th Oct, or today or the day Israel began the invasion of Gaza etc) is that there is no start. In his excellent analysis a few weeks ago Rory Stewart boldly started as recently as
    70 CE. 586 BCE would be a good date too. as would Joshua's occupation, c1400 BCE. Others abound. 1948. 1940-1945. The call of Abraham. 1967. 1973. The Persian sacking of Jerusalem in ?614CE. The Islamic Arab invasions of the 7th century. The Crusades. Ottomans. Balfour 1917 anyone?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,947

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    You must be some kind of genius to detect all of that in a post comparing Starmer to May.
    You're projecting, like many others, on what you'd like Starmer to be. It's confirmation bias at its purest.

    You will be gravely disappointed.
    As he's not married to a billionaire - I suspect he will be an improvement on the current lot - it won't be difficult.

    And yep he's likely to be a disappointment but he's likely to be vaguely competent with a vague clue on how the world actually works which would be a distinct improvement,...

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,947

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    The diseased bit is the idea that the government should do this- go with "we all know that we're utterly ghastly and need to be kicked out of office BUT LOOK AT THE OTHER LOT."

    It's probably all they've got, but that doesn't make it right. Wind up antisemitic angst, to what end? Reducing the Labour majority by a dozen or so?
    The header is Will Negative Campaigning Against Starmer Work

    My thesis is no (see below) not if it comes from the Tories. People are bored of the Tories and the Tories after 13 mediocre years in power have no basis for attacks

    However negative campaigning by proxy might be more effective. Illuminate the shady elements of pro-Hamas Labour, who are - right now - complaining that Starmer is steered by his Jewish wife

    Nasty? Yes. Effective? Might be. Also possibly justifiable: people need to see what lurks in Labour, still
    They might find the wife angle a little tricky when Sunak's is an Infosys heiress and the India-UK trade deal is still up in the air.
    There is zero upside for us in a India-UK trade deal....
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    Hawking:
    "People who boast about their IQ are losers."

    Feynman's mum:
    “Our Richie? The world's smartest man? God help us! “


  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited December 2023

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Time to reclaim Aden.

    You are Mad Mitch, and I claim my five pounds.
    Hadn’t heard of him, just scanned his Wiki profile.
    We need a Netflix series, obviously. (Or better, Apple+).
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    Hawking:
    "People who boast about their IQ are losers."

    Feynman's mum:
    “Our Richie? The world's smartest man? God help us! “


    I need to give Leon some lessons on how to be modest and self effacing.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    Have you not been paying attention to Rishi between 12.00 and 12.15 on a Wednesday? Starmer has oversees loads of bad stuff. Out of control immigration, runaway inflation and interest rates, high taxes and he's done that as a prisoner of the EU and Corbyn. We need change!
  • Options
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The 2nd voter angle is the one Starmer himself is worried about, because it shows he was a conniving Remoaner trying to overturn democracy: which he was. That SHOULD be dangerous

    However I gravely doubt it would work, Brexit is fading in the rearview, and besides, voters have decided that they want the Tories out, the bland banal lawyer just has to do... nothing, and say as little as possible

    The day after he gets the top job, this will all change. His honeymoon will be startlingly brief, it will not be Blair 2.0

    Because of the honeymoon problem I suspect Starmer's tactic will in fact be to make sure there is no honeymoon. His intention will be to start with minimal expectations, focussing on competence and hard graft and no money left, and Labour has to prove itself and we need a moral decency and there are no simple solutions to complex problems and all that endlessly....Which will be exactly right.

    This would be a simple continuation of his strategy which (no-one notices because it is so boring) has worked brilliantly so far. It is precisely why this Tory is voting for him.
    I think we already know what kind of PM Starmer will be. Indeed, my own theory is that all premierships are reasonably predictable in advance.

    Starmer strikes me as similar to May.
    Essentially a technocrat, driven by a sense of service, but of limited vision and lacking strong communication skills.

    He is however, clearly more competent than May.
    In fact, I expect him to be the most administratively competent PM since…?
    David Cameron.

    You're not far off but you overestimate him. Again, things like anglophobia, Brexit and mushy liberalist wishful thinking creep-in, together with barely hidden anger towards the current regime.
    You must be some kind of genius to detect all of that in a post comparing Starmer to May.
    You're projecting, like many others, on what you'd like Starmer to be. It's confirmation bias at its purest.

    You will be gravely disappointed.
    As he's not married to a billionaire - I suspect he will be an improvement on the current lot - it won't be difficult.

    And yep he's likely to be a disappointment but he's likely to be vaguely competent with a vague clue on how the world actually works which would be a distinct improvement,...

    Even if he turns out equally as bad (unlikely) the Tories still need a walloping defeat to speed up their journey to become electable again. I think they will go further down the Kipper route first but to get to a Tory party centrists can vote for again, maybe by the end of the decade, requires a heavy loss now. Or perhaps the AI will take over by then so it doesnt matter.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    edited December 2023

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
    Isam has picked up that loose ball and is running with it. I am not sure to where.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,532

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
    But that was before he was PM!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    How is it having a bigger brain to (a) inhabit the lower sewers of the very online anti-Semitic left, and (b) be sufficiently morally depleted to recommend something like this as a campaigning strategy?
    Is PB really going to lapse into a pathetic hissy fit of offended morality? Really?? Spare us

    Labour was prepared to be overtly anti-Semitic itself, against Michael Howard

    I am merely, amd more cunningly..
    I see you think you're Baldric now.

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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    British warship hits target for the first time since 1991 it seems. Things are looking up!
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    Hawking:
    "People who boast about their IQ are losers."

    Feynman's mum:
    “Our Richie? The world's smartest man? God help us! “


    I need to give Leon some lessons on how to be modest and self effacing.
    But it’s easy for you. You’ve got nothing to boast about
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
    Isam has picked up that loose ball and is running with it. I am not sure to where.
    The ban hammer, eventually.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    Wow.
    Because the Corbynites are already doing this. I can offer the site proof, but we don't really need it, do we?
    I don't need any evidence, the wow was about your mindset.

    Using antisemitism to win an election, no wonder you regularly fellate Putin.
    Of course Labour would never stoop so low...

    image
    I’ll defend that.
    I never saw it as anti-Semitic and I’m not sure 99.9% knew or cared that Howard was ethnically Jewish somehow, including whoever came up with the campaign.
    No, those ads pretty well were.
    Plausibly deniable, of course. Sort of thing Leon would think was smart.

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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    Right I’m in an Uber to Soho for an annual shindig that generally gets very very messy. A true test of my recent (relative) sobriety
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    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories need to goad the Labour left into attacking Starmer’s Jewish “zio” wife

    That would do far more damage than any assault from the feeble Sunakites

    What a diseased brain you have.
    No, just a bigger brain than yours

    I have already seen these attacks on Starmer's wife by the Labour left. The Tories should amplify them
    Hawking:
    "People who boast about their IQ are losers."

    Feynman's mum:
    “Our Richie? The world's smartest man? God help us! “


    I need to give Leon some lessons on how to be modest and self effacing.
    But it’s easy for you. You’ve got nothing to boast about
    Absolutely, whereas you are so intelligent you cannot even set up or use a printer.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    boulay said:

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
    I think John Major ate the country’s most famous Curry.
    If that post doesn't break the record for likes, PB is devoid of a sense of humour!
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Keir’s issue is going to be how woke his broader government will be.

    The Labour movement is filled with wokey types fighting the culture wars of the mid 2010s, and - with the absence of much money - they’ll be sorely tempted to push their agenda onto the public services in favour of actual reform.

    I’m not sure how alert Keir is to this.
    He needs an Alan Johnson or some such to act as a kind of internal woke watchdog.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited December 2023
    boulay said:

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    He the country's most (in)famous curry.

    Remember when our North Wales correspondent spammed PB in 2022 about it?
    I think John Major ate the country’s most famous Curry.
    Ahem.

    The picture and caption made a few PBers upchuck.



    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/05/15/tears-for-keir/
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474

    In my humble opinion, Starmer is the worst Prime Minister we've had since World War 2.
    I'm struggling to think of anything he's achieved.

    Now that is a meme which is both mildly amusing, and accurate.
    Beginning to catch on, too.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Starmer risks looking very fake if he carries on in this direction:

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1735710450216538243

    Coming from a working class home, I never thought I'd end up studying law at university.
This discussion has been closed.