So this explains the Rwanda obsession – politicalbetting.com

System

So this explains the Rwanda obsession – politicalbetting.com

On whether Tories are right to make immigration such a focus a few different things are true in public opinion terms. 1. No doubt people are angry about failure/broken promises on tackling channel crossings. It’s the top reason 2019 Tories now say they would go elsewhere. pic.twitter.com/qUvqFtTeYJ

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

First?

Leon

FPT for @williamglenn

"There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.

https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/on-s-estime-en-danger-une-professeure-d-un-college-des-yvelines-diffamee-apres-avoir-montre-une-oeuvre-representant-cinq-femmes-nues_AV-202312110259.html"

+++++++



I wish you'd stop being so negative about multiculturalism. Why not mention the positives - like the return of Blasphemy Laws to Denmark? So people who burn Korans go to jail?

https://unherd.com/2023/12/blasphemy-laws-have-returned-to-denmark/

Carnyx

28% of Tory voters think the Tories are too woke. 53% who think theyt screwed up on illegal immigration.

Though I notice the relevant table (at least as shown here) doesn't allow for *legal* immigration, whether the view is that the Tories make it too easy, etc. etc. .

isam

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

MikeL

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

williamglenn

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

RochdalePioneers

Let us see just how weak Sunak is. The hard right in open rebellion. They are threatened with having the whip removed, but Sunak told Jonathan Brains Gullis the bill could be hardened.
So, he blinks, concedes something to the hard right to avoid defeat and instead is defeated because he dislodges the soft left.

Potential Darwin Award later if Jenrick votes for the bill he resigned to protest against. The full Ben Swain experience.

isam

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Now Sir Keir is wearing mine and Nigel Farage’s clothing, by admitting that mass immigration suppresses wages for the working class, will that mean people can vote for Reform without worrying it will make him PM, or stop people voting Reform because he’s talking their language?

rcs1000

If Reform polls close to 10%, it will cost the Tories a lot more than 30 seats.

Which brings me to my big issue: there has been good progress on the boat arrivals this year! Now, are they zero? No. But a competent government would be emphasizing what has been achieved so far, and promising more for the future, while warning Labour will fuck it up.

Instead, the government seems to be deliberately promoting the idea that it is failing.

The level of self immolation, even compared to 2010 and 1997, is staggering.

Leon

Fuck me with a giant frozen mega-pilchard, it's getting dark already

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT

MJW

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Possibly, but there's an important difference. Labour already lost those voters from 2015-2019. It's won some back but by no means all - and doesn't need to - just the more persuadable. As on the other side of the equation, the Tories have haemorrhaged working-age middle-of-the-road voters that used to be the key swing vote and even many liberal Conservatives.

I'm not sure there's the same reservoir of fed-up socially conservative Labour voters who stuck with it as once there were.

Leon

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

SouthamObserver

RochdalePioneers said:

Let us see just how weak Sunak is. The hard right in open rebellion. They are threatened with having the whip removed, but Sunak told Jonathan Brains Gullis the bill could be hardened.
So, he blinks, concedes something to the hard right to avoid defeat and instead is defeated because he dislodges the soft left.

Potential Darwin Award later if Jenrick votes for the bill he resigned to protest against. The full Ben Swain experience.

The idea that the One Nation Tories will vote against an amended bill is for the fairies. They will back whatever is put in front of them. This is all about the Tory hard right and what it decides to do.

OnlyLivingBoy

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

RochdalePioneers

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

NickPalmer

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Missed MORI - what were the figures?

DougSeal

Leon said:

Fuck me with a giant frozen mega-pilchard, it's getting dark already

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT

The Earth's axial tilt at a guess, but what would I know?

OnlyLivingBoy

The lesson for the Tories is this: if you want to blow an issue out of all proportion for the purposes of political advantage, you'd better make sure you can actually fix the issue.

Scott_xP

@Savanta_UK
Labour lead the Conservatives on every policy issue, though one of their narrowest leads is on immigration.

NHS
Lab 49%
Con 23%

Cost of living
Lab 45%
Con 32%

Economy
Lab 42%
Con 32%

Immigration
Lab 39%
Con 30%

Stuartinromford

rcs1000 said:

If Reform polls close to 10%, it will cost the Tories a lot more than 30 seats.

Which brings me to my big issue: there has been good progress on the boat arrivals this year! Now, are they zero? No. But a competent government would be emphasizing what has been achieved so far, and promising more for the future, while warning Labour will fuck it up.

Instead, the government seems to be deliberately promoting the idea that it is failing.

The level of self immolation, even compared to 2010 and 1997, is staggering.

Trouble is that having started down the road to Rwanda, they can't stop.

isam

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

Leon

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

isam

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember

Mexicanpete

Scott_xP said:

@Savanta_UK
Labour lead the Conservatives on every policy issue, though one of their narrowest leads is on immigration.

NHS
Lab 49%
Con 23%

Cost of living
Lab 45%
Con 32%

Economy
Lab 42%
Con 32%

Immigration
Lab 39%
Con 30%

So immigration politics really is the last resort of a scoundrel called Rishi Sunak.

Leon

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Pulpstar

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Tomorrow is the earliest sunset*. Lighter nights from here on out !

* For London (And most of England), Aberdeen will be the 15th, Newcastle 14th.

Leon

isam said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember

Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

This? THIS????

RochdalePioneers

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.

DougSeal

Leon said:

isam said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember

Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

This? THIS????

Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.

DougSeal

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Leon

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.

Good for you! (Sincerely)

I don't wish any PB-er to be unhappy. If you like that climate, I am happy for your happiness

It just ain't me. I can't work out whether it is the dankness or the darkness which I dislike most

I adore the feeling of being able to walk outside in shorts and shirtsleeves at 9pm. I also like getting a healthy amount of Vitamin D and avoiding rickets

SouthamObserver

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Leon

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

isam said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember

Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

This? THIS????

Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.

I actually hesitated to make that comment, as I knew it might invoke tears of pity, and I prefer to spread joy, but it is what it is

RochdalePioneers

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.

Good for you! (Sincerely)

I don't wish any PB-er to be unhappy. If you like that climate, I am happy for your happiness

It just ain't me. I can't work out whether it is the dankness or the darkness which I dislike most

I adore the feeling of being able to walk outside in shorts and shirtsleeves at 9pm. I also like getting a healthy amount of Vitamin D and avoiding rickets

Its dark in Camden at 9pm in December...

david_herdson

MJW said:

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Possibly, but there's an important difference. Labour already lost those voters from 2015-2019. It's won some back but by no means all - and doesn't need to - just the more persuadable. As on the other side of the equation, the Tories have haemorrhaged working-age middle-of-the-road voters that used to be the key swing vote and even many liberal Conservatives.

I'm not sure there's the same reservoir of fed-up socially conservative Labour voters who stuck with it as once there were.

Yes, I agree with this. Both the Labour and Tory voter coalitions have changed a lot since 2010. Those who went Lab-UKIP-Leave-Tory(maybe)-Tory across 2010/15/16/17/19 are now likely to be Reform but are unlikely to revert to Labour and may well sit it out otherwise.

The appeal of Reform to Labour voters from 2019 is much more limited. Those voters weren't all Corbynites by any means - many voted Labour on general ideology/values, out of habit, as a Remain vote, to keep the Tories out and for all sorts of other reasons - but they were willing to live with Corbyn and oppose Brexit and Johnson. That doesn't strike me as a deep pool of potential Reform switchers.

OnlyLivingBoy

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

No it is depressing AF and I hate February more than any other month but there is appreciable more sunlight by then than in the bleak midwinter.
I grew up in Scotland so find the amount of light in London, indeed the weather down here generally, extremely clement. Summers down here are tropical, and winters a lot more bearable. No more darkness at 3.30 pm!

Leon

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Yes, they made a country where literally everyone is desperate to escape and invade and conquer somewhere sunnier, hence the British Empire, and Magaluf

Scott_xP

@MrHarryCole

LATEST:

Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

TimS

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Ideally one would wander the Northern Hemisphere along the following lines

January: Tropics
February: California
March: Alps
April: Portugal
May: Scottish Highlands
June: London
July: Scandinavia
August: Galicia or Brittany
September: Burgundy, Piedmont, Rioja or Georgia
October: Greek Islands or Sicily
November: Japan
December: Germany or Lapland

TimS

Scott_xP said:

@MrHarryCole

LATEST:

Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

Planes touching down on the Kigali tarmac within hours.

Mexicanpete

...

Scott_xP said:

@MrHarryCole

LATEST:

Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

And Rishi can claim his magnificent victory. He is just exercising the "people's priorities"!

W@nker!

Leon

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Mexicanpete

TimS said:

Scott_xP said:

@MrHarryCole

LATEST:

Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

Planes touching down on the Kigali tarmac within hours.

£250m, one plane with one asylum seeker on board. Mission accomplished.

Alphabet_Soup

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.

SouthamObserver

Leon said:

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Yes, they made a country where literally everyone is desperate to escape and invade and conquer somewhere sunnier, hence the British Empire, and Magaluf

But the British Empire was enabled by the Industrial Revolution and that was triggered, in part at least, by the resources at our disposal married to a need to find ways to create the energy, warmth and light that were not available naturally.

DougSeal

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well, don't let us stand in your way.

bondegezou

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

david_herdson

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

No it is depressing AF and I hate February more than any other month but there is appreciable more sunlight by then than in the bleak midwinter.
I grew up in Scotland so find the amount of light in London, indeed the weather down here generally, extremely clement. Summers down here are tropical, and winters a lot more bearable. No more darkness at 3.30 pm!

February is depressing precisely *because* there is more light than the bleak midwinter but despite that it's still just as bloody cold. It's nature trolling us.

kinabalu

Face scrunches up at "Tories have become too woke" as a reason to desert them.

Scott_xP

@benrileysmith

Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

Mexicanpete

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Leon

TimS said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Ideally one would wander the Northern Hemisphere along the following lines

January: Tropics
February: California
March: Alps
April: Portugal
May: Scottish Highlands
June: London
July: Scandinavia
August: Galicia or Brittany
September: Burgundy, Piedmont, Rioja or Georgia
October: Greek Islands or Sicily
November: Japan
December: Germany or Lapland

Not a bad choice at all

I would barely change a thing, except maybe February I'd veer south and go for the Maldives/Seychelles for some divng and snorkelling and - as I don't ski - I'd do Cuba or Mexico in March

Japan gets a bit too cold and grey in November, I'd do Japan in October and Egypt or Oman or India in November

Leon

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

TimS

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.

isam

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.

david_herdson

Alphabet_Soup said:

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.

The winter solstice will happen at the same point in the earth's journey around the sun, irrespective of what the calendar says - and will be early on 22 Dec this year.

SouthamObserver

Alphabet_Soup said:

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.

#
There's a pink twilight sky fading to dark here in East Devon. It's a fine feeling to be warm inside watching it happen. It does get noticeably lighter here earlier in the morning than it did when we lived in Leamington and London.

If you really want dark mornings, though, go to Spain at this time of year. They are very definitely in the wrong time zone.

TimS

Scott_xP said:

@benrileysmith

Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.

Malmesbury

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

isam said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK

Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember

Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

This? THIS????

Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.

Like this, but smaller

Mexicanpete

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

isam

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

I definitely prefer this kind of weather to the thirty degrees plus that seems to be becoming more frequent in the summer. British summers seem to be more humid than they used to, or maybe it’s just to do with me getting older.

SouthamObserver

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

SouthamObserver

isam said:

SouthamObserver said:

I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

I definitely prefer this kind of weather to the thirty degrees plus that seems to be becoming more frequent in the summer. British summers seem to be more humid than they used to, or maybe it’s just to do with me getting older.

Yep - hotter and more humid, for sure.

MikeL

NickPalmer said:

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Missed MORI - what were the figures?

Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

@IpsosUK
: 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

Voting intention (v Nov)
Labour 41% (-5)
Conservative 24% (-1)
Lib Dems 13% (+1)
Greens 9% (+3)
Reform 7% (+3)
Other 6% (-)

kinabalu

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

noneoftheabove

SouthamObserver said:

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

Build. More. Houses.

Cookie

TimS said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.

Yes, I'm with you there. For me, home is very much a northern European idiom.
I often think at Christmas how alien so much of the religious imagery is - deserts and camels and oases and so on. Speaks nothing to my soul. Home to me is snow, and hills, and trees, and cold; a low sun in a fading sky. I remember a snow covered dusk on a cloudy day above Macclesfield Forest a few years ago; a lone light in an isolated stone built cottage - that is the landscape I year for. That, to me, is home; that is the landscape that speaks to my soul.
That said, I went to Lapland last year and that didn't feel like home at all. So there is a thing as too far north.

I've never been to Africa, but it looks, frankly, shit. Sorry to dismiss 20% of the world's land area at a stroke, but there you are.

Leon

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

isam

SouthamObserver said:

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

If the govt had said there’s no ceiling or pay restrictions on immigration for state run services, but corporations etc have to jump through hoops, who could complain? Corporations I suppose but not people who worry about the NHS

It could even mean the govt looking after people with dementia in NHS hospitals rather than that illness being farmed out to profit makers

williamglenn

kinabalu said:

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on and on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

Indeed, the people who bang on about needing immigrant labour because there are certain jobs that British people "won't do" sound suspicously like they are advocating a caste system.

Andy_JS

MikeL said:

NickPalmer said:

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Missed MORI - what were the figures?

Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

@IpsosUK
: 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

Voting intention (v Nov)
Labour 41% (-5)
Conservative 24% (-1)
Lib Dems 13% (+1)
Greens 9% (+3)
Reform 7% (+3)
Other 6% (-)

This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.

isam

kinabalu said:

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

That’s what got us into this mess

Leon

Cookie said:

TimS said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.

Yes, I'm with you there. For me, home is very much a northern European idiom.
I often think at Christmas how alien so much of the religious imagery is - deserts and camels and oases and so on. Speaks nothing to my soul. Home to me is snow, and hills, and trees, and cold; a low sun in a fading sky. I remember a snow covered dusk on a cloudy day above Macclesfield Forest a few years ago; a lone light in an isolated stone built cottage - that is the landscape I year for. That, to me, is home; that is the landscape that speaks to my soul.
That said, I went to Lapland last year and that didn't feel like home at all. So there is a thing as too far north.

I've never been to Africa, but it looks, frankly, shit. Sorry to dismiss 20% of the world's land area at a stroke, but there you are.

African cities are generally shit. Sadly

But the bush - the wilds - the mountains and savannahs and jungles and forests - are maybe the greatest in the world

Nigelb

.

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

You voted Brexit so we could delay retirement ?
Cheers, mate..

Mexicanpete

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

But we owned Europe it was ours, and we could come and go as we pleased. Now we don't and we can't. You gave it all away on my half, and for imaginary sovereignty.

Anyway I am enjoying Lisbon before heading for the Azores. Not dark here yet!

No_Offence_Alan

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.

Leon

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

But we owned Europe it was ours, and we could come and go as we pleased. Now we don't and we can't. You gave it all away on my half, and for imaginary sovereignty.

Anyway I am enjoying Lisbon before heading for the Azores. Not dark here yet!

lol. So you’re moaning about Brexit from Lisbon en route to the Azores

Enjoy!

IanB2

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.

isam

No_Offence_Alan said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.

Wasn’t that a figure measuring something completely different?

IanB2

….

Luckyguy1983

TimS said:

Scott_xP said:

@benrileysmith

Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.

It seems that the ERG and its aligned groupings are sensibly voting for the bill despite reservations, as it's the only bill on offer, and parliamentary time is running short. Trying to portray this as 'a failed rebellion' is a heroic effort, but hardly rings true. It would appear that the '100 strong' 'One nation' caucus have also decided to vote for the bill; is that a humiliating climbdown of the wet rebellion?

Leon

IanB2 said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.

I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho

bondegezou

isam said:

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.

I know you are. But the Government is constantly muddying the waters those boats are crossing. What I'm saying is that if you want a grown-up discussion around immigration, then vote out the people who are stopping that.

IanB2

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.

I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho

The first lockdown spring was superb weather. As was the late autumn. You just be thinking of the second year.

DougSeal

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.

bondegezou

isam said:

kinabalu said:

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

That’s what got us into this mess

Is it? I thought it was that the Conservative Party has implemented policy to massively increase legal immigration, while pretending that they opposed the idea. Plus that they have underfunded the processes to handle asylum claims,

Stuartinromford

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

"I'm Rishi Sunak and I approve this message."

No_Offence_Alan

isam said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.

Wasn’t that a figure measuring something completely different?

Well, yes, but you should always quote the gross figure for effect.

isam

bondegezou said:

isam said:

bondegezou said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.

It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”

But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.

I know you are. But the Government is constantly muddying the waters those boats are crossing. What I'm saying is that if you want a grown-up discussion around immigration, then vote out the people who are stopping that.

Well I think that pretty certain to happen whoever I vote for. If I vote at all, which is less than likely

NerysHughes

Andy_JS said:

MikeL said:

NickPalmer said:

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Missed MORI - what were the figures?

Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

@IpsosUK
: 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

Voting intention (v Nov)
Labour 41% (-5)
Conservative 24% (-1)
Lib Dems 13% (+1)
Greens 9% (+3)
Reform 7% (+3)
Other 6% (-)

This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.

It must be the I love Thatcher quote from SKS that is affecting the Labour share

RochdalePioneers

Will be comedy if the Tories claim that passing their principle piece of legislation through 2nd reading with a 56 majority is claimed as a Great Victory.

It's getting torn apart at committee stage before running out of time in the Lords. We know it, they know it, everyone knows it. And thats assuming Rwanda don't pull the plug as threatened...

david_herdson

Andy_JS said:

MikeL said:

NickPalmer said:

MikeL said:

Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

Missed MORI - what were the figures?

Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

@IpsosUK
: 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

Voting intention (v Nov)
Labour 41% (-5)
Conservative 24% (-1)
Lib Dems 13% (+1)
Greens 9% (+3)
Reform 7% (+3)
Other 6% (-)

This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.

It's not been lower since last year but there have been a few other 65% combined shares since.

Leon

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.

What the feck are you on about now?

There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether

OnlyLivingBoy

bondegezou said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

That’s what got us into this mess

Is it? I thought it was that the Conservative Party has implemented policy to massively increase legal immigration, while pretending that they opposed the idea. Plus that they have underfunded the processes to handle asylum claims,

And prevented the building of new housing, and underfunded public services, and failed to reform social care so it will collapse without imported workers... No wonder they'd rather distract with this kerfuffle about boats.
I'm not going to call people racists, it's a bit of a pointless exercise. But don't expect me to get too exercised about immigration changing our demographics when my own children are an example of that, and I think this country is fucking privileged to have my children as its citizens.

Leon

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.

Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.

I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho

The first lockdown spring was superb weather. As was the late autumn. You just be thinking of the second year.

That's probably why I said "lockdown 3" - the third lockdown

OnlyLivingBoy

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.

What the feck are you on about now?

There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether

My retirement plan certainly involves a villa in Sri Lanka.

Scott_xP

@PippaCrerar
Tory source says the chief whip has cancelled a talks with Rwanda rebel MPs at 5pm so he can hold what is described as an "emergency meeting" with No 10

TimS

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimS said:

Scott_xP said:

@benrileysmith

Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.

It seems that the ERG and its aligned groupings are sensibly voting for the bill despite reservations, as it's the only bill on offer, and parliamentary time is running short. Trying to portray this as 'a failed rebellion' is a heroic effort, but hardly rings true. It would appear that the '100 strong' 'One nation' caucus have also decided to vote for the bill; is that a humiliating climbdown of the wet rebellion?

The wets were never going to rebel properly anyway, because they're actually Tories who don't mind a bit of performative cruelty so long as it keeps them in favour with the leader.

It's just another day in the naval-gazing world of the parliamentary Tory party, their arse-from-elbow challenged leader and the breathlessly excited journalists that buzz around them.

Leon

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"

In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes

Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?

Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain

Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

And then you voted Leave.

Stop fucking moaning and earn more money

But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.

There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed

You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.

What the feck are you on about now?

There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether

My retirement plan certainly involves a villa in Sri Lanka.

It's a damn good choice. Lovely people, lovely food, lovely beaches, cooling mountains, lush forests, delicious tea, just gotta hope they avoid any more wars

kinabalu

isam said:

kinabalu said:

Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

That’s what got us into this mess

That's highly arguable. But in any case let's give it another whirl.