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So this explains the Rwanda obsession – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited December 2023 in General
So this explains the Rwanda obsession – politicalbetting.com

On whether Tories are right to make immigration such a focus a few different things are true in public opinion terms. 1. No doubt people are angry about failure/broken promises on tackling channel crossings. It’s the top reason 2019 Tories now say they would go elsewhere. pic.twitter.com/qUvqFtTeYJ

Read the full story here

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    First?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    FPT for @williamglenn

    "There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/on-s-estime-en-danger-une-professeure-d-un-college-des-yvelines-diffamee-apres-avoir-montre-une-oeuvre-representant-cinq-femmes-nues_AV-202312110259.html"

    +++++++



    I wish you'd stop being so negative about multiculturalism. Why not mention the positives - like the return of Blasphemy Laws to Denmark? So people who burn Korans go to jail?

    https://unherd.com/2023/12/blasphemy-laws-have-returned-to-denmark/
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,635
    edited December 2023
    28% of Tory voters think the Tories are too woke. 53% who think theyt screwed up on illegal immigration.

    Though I notice the relevant table (at least as shown here) doesn't allow for *legal* immigration, whether the view is that the Tories make it too easy, etc. etc. .
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving




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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
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    Let us see just how weak Sunak is. The hard right in open rebellion. They are threatened with having the whip removed, but Sunak told Jonathan Brains Gullis the bill could be hardened.
    So, he blinks, concedes something to the hard right to avoid defeat and instead is defeated because he dislodges the soft left.

    Potential Darwin Award later if Jenrick votes for the bill he resigned to protest against. The full Ben Swain experience.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Now Sir Keir is wearing mine and Nigel Farage’s clothing, by admitting that mass immigration suppresses wages for the working class, will that mean people can vote for Reform without worrying it will make him PM, or stop people voting Reform because he’s talking their language?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    If Reform polls close to 10%, it will cost the Tories a lot more than 30 seats.

    Which brings me to my big issue: there has been good progress on the boat arrivals this year! Now, are they zero? No. But a competent government would be emphasizing what has been achieved so far, and promising more for the future, while warning Labour will fuck it up.

    Instead, the government seems to be deliberately promoting the idea that it is failing.

    The level of self immolation, even compared to 2010 and 1997, is staggering.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    Fuck me with a giant frozen mega-pilchard, it's getting dark already

    WHAT IS THAT ABOUT
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,339
    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Possibly, but there's an important difference. Labour already lost those voters from 2015-2019. It's won some back but by no means all - and doesn't need to - just the more persuadable. As on the other side of the equation, the Tories have haemorrhaged working-age middle-of-the-road voters that used to be the key swing vote and even many liberal Conservatives.

    I'm not sure there's the same reservoir of fed-up socially conservative Labour voters who stuck with it as once there were.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland
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    Let us see just how weak Sunak is. The hard right in open rebellion. They are threatened with having the whip removed, but Sunak told Jonathan Brains Gullis the bill could be hardened.
    So, he blinks, concedes something to the hard right to avoid defeat and instead is defeated because he dislodges the soft left.

    Potential Darwin Award later if Jenrick votes for the bill he resigned to protest against. The full Ben Swain experience.

    The idea that the One Nation Tories will vote against an amended bill is for the fairies. They will back whatever is put in front of them. This is all about the Tory hard right and what it decides to do.

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    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
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    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326
    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Missed MORI - what were the figures?
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    The lesson for the Tories is this: if you want to blow an issue out of all proportion for the purposes of political advantage, you'd better make sure you can actually fix the issue.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,875
    @Savanta_UK
    Labour lead the Conservatives on every policy issue, though one of their narrowest leads is on immigration.

    NHS
    Lab 49%
    Con 23%

    Cost of living
    Lab 45%
    Con 32%

    Economy
    Lab 42%
    Con 32%

    Immigration
    Lab 39%
    Con 30%
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    rcs1000 said:

    If Reform polls close to 10%, it will cost the Tories a lot more than 30 seats.

    Which brings me to my big issue: there has been good progress on the boat arrivals this year! Now, are they zero? No. But a competent government would be emphasizing what has been achieved so far, and promising more for the future, while warning Labour will fuck it up.

    Instead, the government seems to be deliberately promoting the idea that it is failing.

    The level of self immolation, even compared to 2010 and 1997, is staggering.

    Trouble is that having started down the road to Rwanda, they can't stop.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited December 2023

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    Labour lead the Conservatives on every policy issue, though one of their narrowest leads is on immigration.

    NHS
    Lab 49%
    Con 23%

    Cost of living
    Lab 45%
    Con 32%

    Economy
    Lab 42%
    Con 32%

    Immigration
    Lab 39%
    Con 30%

    So immigration politics really is the last resort of a scoundrel called Rishi Sunak.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Tomorrow is the earliest sunset*. Lighter nights from here on out !

    * For London (And most of England), Aberdeen will be the 15th, Newcastle 14th.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember
    Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

    This? THIS????

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    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember
    Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

    This? THIS????

    Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.
    Good for you! (Sincerely)

    I don't wish any PB-er to be unhappy. If you like that climate, I am happy for your happiness

    It just ain't me. I can't work out whether it is the dankness or the darkness which I dislike most

    I adore the feeling of being able to walk outside in shorts and shirtsleeves at 9pm. I also like getting a healthy amount of Vitamin D and avoiding rickets
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    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember
    Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

    This? THIS????

    Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.
    I actually hesitated to make that comment, as I knew it might invoke tears of pity, and I prefer to spread joy, but it is what it is
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    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    For the first time in my life I relish heading home. Fresh air, beautiful countryside, a fantastic community, and a big house and garden. Yes the days are short at the height of winter. But in the summer it's light until practically midnight. And in winter I get northern lights in my back garden.
    Good for you! (Sincerely)

    I don't wish any PB-er to be unhappy. If you like that climate, I am happy for your happiness

    It just ain't me. I can't work out whether it is the dankness or the darkness which I dislike most

    I adore the feeling of being able to walk outside in shorts and shirtsleeves at 9pm. I also like getting a healthy amount of Vitamin D and avoiding rickets
    Its dark in Camden at 9pm in December...
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    edited December 2023
    MJW said:

    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Possibly, but there's an important difference. Labour already lost those voters from 2015-2019. It's won some back but by no means all - and doesn't need to - just the more persuadable. As on the other side of the equation, the Tories have haemorrhaged working-age middle-of-the-road voters that used to be the key swing vote and even many liberal Conservatives.

    I'm not sure there's the same reservoir of fed-up socially conservative Labour voters who stuck with it as once there were.
    Yes, I agree with this. Both the Labour and Tory voter coalitions have changed a lot since 2010. Those who went Lab-UKIP-Leave-Tory(maybe)-Tory across 2010/15/16/17/19 are now likely to be Reform but are unlikely to revert to Labour and may well sit it out otherwise.

    The appeal of Reform to Labour voters from 2019 is much more limited. Those voters weren't all Corbynites by any means - many voted Labour on general ideology/values, out of habit, as a Remain vote, to keep the Tories out and for all sorts of other reasons - but they were willing to live with Corbyn and oppose Brexit and Johnson. That doesn't strike me as a deep pool of potential Reform switchers.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    No it is depressing AF and I hate February more than any other month but there is appreciable more sunlight by then than in the bleak midwinter.
    I grew up in Scotland so find the amount of light in London, indeed the weather down here generally, extremely clement. Summers down here are tropical, and winters a lot more bearable. No more darkness at 3.30 pm!
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    Yes, they made a country where literally everyone is desperate to escape and invade and conquer somewhere sunnier, hence the British Empire, and Magaluf
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,875
    @MrHarryCole

    LATEST:

    Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

    Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,553
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Ideally one would wander the Northern Hemisphere along the following lines

    January: Tropics
    February: California
    March: Alps
    April: Portugal
    May: Scottish Highlands
    June: London
    July: Scandinavia
    August: Galicia or Brittany
    September: Burgundy, Piedmont, Rioja or Georgia
    October: Greek Islands or Sicily
    November: Japan
    December: Germany or Lapland
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,553
    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    LATEST:

    Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

    Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

    Planes touching down on the Kigali tarmac within hours.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    LATEST:

    Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

    Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

    And Rishi can claim his magnificent victory. He is just exercising the "people's priorities"!

    W@nker!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    LATEST:

    Tide going out on rebellion victory tonight.

    Lots of abstaining but leaders aiming now for bloody nose

    Planes touching down on the Kigali tarmac within hours.
    £250m, one plane with one asylum seeker on board. Mission accomplished.
  • Options

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.
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    Leon said:

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    Yes, they made a country where literally everyone is desperate to escape and invade and conquer somewhere sunnier, hence the British Empire, and Magaluf

    But the British Empire was enabled by the Industrial Revolution and that was triggered, in part at least, by the resources at our disposal married to a need to find ways to create the energy, warmth and light that were not available naturally.

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well, don't let us stand in your way.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,585
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.
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    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    No it is depressing AF and I hate February more than any other month but there is appreciable more sunlight by then than in the bleak midwinter.
    I grew up in Scotland so find the amount of light in London, indeed the weather down here generally, extremely clement. Summers down here are tropical, and winters a lot more bearable. No more darkness at 3.30 pm!
    February is depressing precisely *because* there is more light than the bleak midwinter but despite that it's still just as bloody cold. It's nature trolling us.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    Face scrunches up at "Tories have become too woke" as a reason to desert them.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,875
    @benrileysmith

    Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

    With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    edited December 2023
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Ideally one would wander the Northern Hemisphere along the following lines

    January: Tropics
    February: California
    March: Alps
    April: Portugal
    May: Scottish Highlands
    June: London
    July: Scandinavia
    August: Galicia or Brittany
    September: Burgundy, Piedmont, Rioja or Georgia
    October: Greek Islands or Sicily
    November: Japan
    December: Germany or Lapland
    Not a bad choice at all

    I would barely change a thing, except maybe February I'd veer south and go for the Maldives/Seychelles for some divng and snorkelling and - as I don't ski - I'd do Cuba or Mexico in March

    Japan gets a bit too cold and grey in November, I'd do Japan in October and Egypt or Oman or India in November

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,553
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.
    Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.
  • Options

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.
    The winter solstice will happen at the same point in the earth's journey around the sun, irrespective of what the calendar says - and will be early on 22 Dec this year.
  • Options

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    Today is the day when the sun sets at the earliest time, even though the mornings will continue to get darker until the end of the month. It would also have been the winter solstice if Pope Gregory hadn't decided to muck about with the calendar.

    #
    There's a pink twilight sky fading to dark here in East Devon. It's a fine feeling to be warm inside watching it happen. It does get noticeably lighter here earlier in the morning than it did when we lived in Leamington and London.

    If you really want dark mornings, though, go to Spain at this time of year. They are very definitely in the wrong time zone.

  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,553
    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

    With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

    The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,316
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Yeah, but it doesn't actually FEEL like it's getting lighter til about late Feb, and the weather barely improves until mid March

    It's like living in a torture garden, we just get used to being persistently flailed by outbreaks of SLEET. In the DARK
    Today has been one of the bleakest days, weather wise, that I can remember
    Count yourself lucky! Imagine what it feels like for me. I've just come back from a solid month of sunshine in Malaysia, Cambodia and Thailand. I think there were two overcast days in that month, the rest blissful cloudless blue skies, and tropical warmth, without too much humidity. MMMM

    This? THIS????

    Yes. Violinists across the capital are opening their cases and tuning up on hearing your sad story.
    Like this, but smaller


  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    I definitely prefer this kind of weather to the thirty degrees plus that seems to be becoming more frequent in the summer. British summers seem to be more humid than they used to, or maybe it’s just to do with me getting older.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,918
    edited December 2023

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

    A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

  • Options
    isam said:

    I like the long winter nights. Especially when it's raining. I like our climate. I like our latitude. They are what have made this country what it is.

    I definitely prefer this kind of weather to the thirty degrees plus that seems to be becoming more frequent in the summer. British summers seem to be more humid than they used to, or maybe it’s just to do with me getting older.

    Yep - hotter and more humid, for sure.

  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286

    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Missed MORI - what were the figures?
    Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

    @IpsosUK
    : 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

    Voting intention (v Nov)
    Labour 41% (-5)
    Conservative 24% (-1)
    Lib Dems 13% (+1)
    Greens 9% (+3)
    Reform 7% (+3)
    Other 6% (-)
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    edited December 2023
    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

    A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

    Build. More. Houses.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,386
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.
    Yes, I'm with you there. For me, home is very much a northern European idiom.
    I often think at Christmas how alien so much of the religious imagery is - deserts and camels and oases and so on. Speaks nothing to my soul. Home to me is snow, and hills, and trees, and cold; a low sun in a fading sky. I remember a snow covered dusk on a cloudy day above Macclesfield Forest a few years ago; a lone light in an isolated stone built cottage - that is the landscape I year for. That, to me, is home; that is the landscape that speaks to my soul.
    That said, I went to Lapland last year and that didn't feel like home at all. So there is a thing as too far north.

    I've never been to Africa, but it looks, frankly, shit. Sorry to dismiss 20% of the world's land area at a stroke, but there you are.


  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.

    A grown-up discussion of legal immigration involves one about what to do in sectors where immigrant labour is pivotal - adult care, the NHS, agriculture, hospitality etc. We need to be honest about all the pay-offs. Basically, there are no easy answers. Don't hold your breath.

    If the govt had said there’s no ceiling or pay restrictions on immigration for state run services, but corporations etc have to jump through hoops, who could complain? Corporations I suppose but not people who worry about the NHS

    It could even mean the govt looking after people with dementia in NHS hospitals rather than that illness being farmed out to profit makers
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    kinabalu said:

    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on and on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

    Indeed, the people who bang on about needing immigrant labour because there are certain jobs that British people "won't do" sound suspicously like they are advocating a caste system.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Missed MORI - what were the figures?
    Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

    @IpsosUK
    : 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

    Voting intention (v Nov)
    Labour 41% (-5)
    Conservative 24% (-1)
    Lib Dems 13% (+1)
    Greens 9% (+3)
    Reform 7% (+3)
    Other 6% (-)
    This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    kinabalu said:

    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

    That’s what got us into this mess
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    edited December 2023
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    I think different people have different instinctive feelings for the perfect environment, and I do wonder there is something deeply ancestral there. Some like the high mountains and sheer slopes, some the comforting embrace of the woods, or lush green temperate meadows and parkland, some the open plains and rolling horizons, or the rocky seashore. I'm an open plains and rolling horizons person myself. That's the one downside of living in a city.
    Yes, I'm with you there. For me, home is very much a northern European idiom.
    I often think at Christmas how alien so much of the religious imagery is - deserts and camels and oases and so on. Speaks nothing to my soul. Home to me is snow, and hills, and trees, and cold; a low sun in a fading sky. I remember a snow covered dusk on a cloudy day above Macclesfield Forest a few years ago; a lone light in an isolated stone built cottage - that is the landscape I year for. That, to me, is home; that is the landscape that speaks to my soul.
    That said, I went to Lapland last year and that didn't feel like home at all. So there is a thing as too far north.

    I've never been to Africa, but it looks, frankly, shit. Sorry to dismiss 20% of the world's land area at a stroke, but there you are.


    African cities are generally shit. Sadly

    But the bush - the wilds - the mountains and savannahs and jungles and forests - are maybe the greatest in the world
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,466
    .
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    You voted Brexit so we could delay retirement ?
    Cheers, mate..
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,121
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    But we owned Europe it was ours, and we could come and go as we pleased. Now we don't and we can't. You gave it all away on my half, and for imaginary sovereignty.

    Anyway I am enjoying Lisbon before heading for the Azores. Not dark here yet!
  • Options
    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving




    Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    But we owned Europe it was ours, and we could come and go as we pleased. Now we don't and we can't. You gave it all away on my half, and for imaginary sovereignty.

    Anyway I am enjoying Lisbon before heading for the Azores. Not dark here yet!
    lol. So you’re moaning about Brexit from Lisbon en route to the Azores

    Enjoy!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving




    Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.
    Wasn’t that a figure measuring something completely different?

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited December 2023
    ….
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,357
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

    With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

    The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.
    It seems that the ERG and its aligned groupings are sensibly voting for the bill despite reservations, as it's the only bill on offer, and parliamentary time is running short. Trying to portray this as 'a failed rebellion' is a heroic effort, but hardly rings true. It would appear that the '100 strong' 'One nation' caucus have also decided to vote for the bill; is that a humiliating climbdown of the wet rebellion?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.
    I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

    Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

    Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

    Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,585
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.
    Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.
    I know you are. But the Government is constantly muddying the waters those boats are crossing. What I'm saying is that if you want a grown-up discussion around immigration, then vote out the people who are stopping that.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.
    I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

    Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

    Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

    Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho
    The first lockdown spring was superb weather. As was the late autumn. You just be thinking of the second year.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

    Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,585
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

    That’s what got us into this mess
    Is it? I thought it was that the Conservative Party has implemented policy to massively increase legal immigration, while pretending that they opposed the idea. Plus that they have underfunded the processes to handle asylum claims,
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    "I'm Rishi Sunak and I approve this message."
  • Options
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving




    Why is he messing around with the net figure? It was the gross figure that went on the side of the bus.
    Wasn’t that a figure measuring something completely different?

    Well, yes, but you should always quote the gross figure for effect.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Whilst the Tories tie themselves in knots over illegal immigration, Farage has shifted his sights onto the huge net migration figures. They really are on the ropes

    Some people on here tried to make out the net migration figures are only as high as they are due to a drop in British people leaving, but that isn’t true - more people than ever are arriving

    Some ideologies can be tested to destruction and then abandoned if they fail, but demographic transformation is forever.
    It always follows the same pattern; immigration increases to the point where the public are becoming perturbed by it, a politician voices their concern, then a rival politician says the predicted numbers are an exaggeration

    The predicted numbers turn out not to have been an exaggeration, and the rival politician says “Yes, but look at the benefits to the country’s GDP” or some such justification, whilst the public are saying “ What has happened to our neighbourhood? Why didn’t anyone listen?”
    But the Government isn't talking about immigration. They are spending a huge amount of energy on a tiny contributor to immigration numbers. They are deliberately giving the misleading impression that people coming over on boats are the main source of asylum claims (they're not) and a significant part of overall immigration (not remotely). If you want a "grown up" discussion of immigration, great, but that's not being offered by Sunak and the Conservatives.
    Yes. But I’m talking about legal immigration, not the small boats.
    I know you are. But the Government is constantly muddying the waters those boats are crossing. What I'm saying is that if you want a grown-up discussion around immigration, then vote out the people who are stopping that.
    Well I think that pretty certain to happen whoever I vote for. If I vote at all, which is less than likely
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Missed MORI - what were the figures?
    Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

    @IpsosUK
    : 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

    Voting intention (v Nov)
    Labour 41% (-5)
    Conservative 24% (-1)
    Lib Dems 13% (+1)
    Greens 9% (+3)
    Reform 7% (+3)
    Other 6% (-)
    This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.
    It must be the I love Thatcher quote from SKS that is affecting the Labour share
  • Options
    Will be comedy if the Tories claim that passing their principle piece of legislation through 2nd reading with a 56 majority is claimed as a Great Victory.

    It's getting torn apart at committee stage before running out of time in the Lords. We know it, they know it, everyone knows it. And thats assuming Rwanda don't pull the plug as threatened...
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Re the rise of Reform and today's MORI:

    When UKIP did well at a GE I think there was evidence that as UKIP initially grew (say up to somewhere in approx the 7% to 10% range) it principally damaged the Conservatives.

    But any further incremental growth above that level damaged Labour more.

    Might we be starting to see the above taking place now with Reform?

    Missed MORI - what were the figures?
    Apologies - only just seen your post. It was reported on previous thread:

    @IpsosUK
    : 8 in 10 say Sunak govt doing a bad job on immigration / Reform up to 7% (highest ever from Ipsos) / Lab lead 17 🚨

    Voting intention (v Nov)
    Labour 41% (-5)
    Conservative 24% (-1)
    Lib Dems 13% (+1)
    Greens 9% (+3)
    Reform 7% (+3)
    Other 6% (-)
    This must be one of the lowest combined shares for Con and Lab for a long time.
    It's not been lower since last year but there have been a few other 65% combined shares since.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

    Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.
    What the feck are you on about now?

    There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

    https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

    Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether
  • Options

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

    That’s what got us into this mess
    Is it? I thought it was that the Conservative Party has implemented policy to massively increase legal immigration, while pretending that they opposed the idea. Plus that they have underfunded the processes to handle asylum claims,
    And prevented the building of new housing, and underfunded public services, and failed to reform social care so it will collapse without imported workers... No wonder they'd rather distract with this kerfuffle about boats.
    I'm not going to call people racists, it's a bit of a pointless exercise. But don't expect me to get too exercised about immigration changing our demographics when my own children are an example of that, and I think this country is fucking privileged to have my children as its citizens.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    Not helped by freak thunder storms. Nine more days and it turns around, though, starts getting lighter again.
    Actually, in terms of earliest sunset, I think it’s today. Or maybe tomorrow. Thereafter, the sunset starts getting later, by seconds at first, but in the right direction.
    I remember during lockdown 3 - the suicide inducing winter lockdown - when I would scrutinise that sunrise and sunset data like a starving man watching a slow pig roast

    Every day it got a tiny bit brighter and that was a small consolation. Maybe enough to stop me topping myself (literally)

    Unfortunately it turned into one of the coldest wettest greyest springs in history. Which went on til late May. My god it was bad

    Then I made my first escape from Britain to post Covid Majorca in the summer of 2021. I was borderline psycho
    The first lockdown spring was superb weather. As was the late autumn. You just be thinking of the second year.
    That's probably why I said "lockdown 3" - the third lockdown
  • Options
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

    Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.
    What the feck are you on about now?

    There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

    https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

    Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether
    My retirement plan certainly involves a villa in Sri Lanka.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,875
    @PippaCrerar
    Tory source says the chief whip has cancelled a talks with Rwanda rebel MPs at 5pm so he can hold what is described as an "emergency meeting" with No 10
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,553

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    Into the final three hours now. Still zero Tory MPs have actually publicly said they’ll vote against the bill.

    With the Brexit NI rebellion last year there were lots of MPs publicly vowing to vote it down. It still fell short.

    The squib dampens and warrior Rishi survives.
    It seems that the ERG and its aligned groupings are sensibly voting for the bill despite reservations, as it's the only bill on offer, and parliamentary time is running short. Trying to portray this as 'a failed rebellion' is a heroic effort, but hardly rings true. It would appear that the '100 strong' 'One nation' caucus have also decided to vote for the bill; is that a humiliating climbdown of the wet rebellion?
    The wets were never going to rebel properly anyway, because they're actually Tories who don't mind a bit of performative cruelty so long as it keeps them in favour with the leader.

    It's just another day in the naval-gazing world of the parliamentary Tory party, their arse-from-elbow challenged leader and the breathlessly excited journalists that buzz around them.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How can it be getting dark already, this country is like fucking Greenland

    I've started referring to where I live as "North Pole North". When I describe it to people its "wait, you can go *north* from Aberdeen?"
    In all sincerity I dunno how you do it. London is fecking intolerable from late November to early March (with a small exception for Dec 12th to Jan 1st, due to merriment). North Scotland is like that for about six months

    Mankind was not meant to live at these cruel latitudes
    Have you ever thought about moving to the Rift Valley?
    Yes. I actually believe we have an innate hankering for the weather and landscapes of primordial Africa, where we evolved

    Have you ever been to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa - the cradles of humanity?

    There is something about the bush, the scent of the soil at twilit, the thrumming of the cicadas and the stirring of the predators and and the burning sun melting into warm velvet dark: it feels like HOME

    I'm not joking. Especially the unique scent. It triggers something deep in our atavistic brain
    Well we could have all retired to the Mediterranean and enjoyed healthcare and our UK pension in the sun until we fell off the perch.

    And then you voted Leave.

    Stop fucking moaning and earn more money
    But I can only spend it for 90 days in the sun before I have to return to Brexitland and blow it all on central heating.
    There are plenty of places where you can stay year round with a retirement visa and a small pot of money, and they have nicer climates than much of Europe

    Or you can get a digital nomad visa and pay tiny amounts of tax - many countries now offer this, too. Do some research

    The idea that Brexit closed all these doors and we are stuck is just bollocks, the mobility of the digital era means there are more opportunities than ever if you can be arsed
    You know that's not true. The digital nomad routes are open to EU citizens as well. Its just that they can also live anywhere in the EU. Brexit closed a door, not all doors, but a fucking big one. If we'd remained we would have had loads more options. Also being a digital nomad is usually very difficult for tax and local employment law reasons. As I know from experience.

    Still, I'm sure this mythical "sovereignty" experience will keep the seasonal affective disorder from our door with its sunlit uplands.
    What the feck are you on about now?

    There are digital nomad visas available everywhere, from Costa Rica to Mauritius to Malaysia to Sri Lanka to Bali (plus all the EU ones)

    https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

    Sri Lanka looks tempting. 270 days, no tax (AFAICS), meaning you can then spend the other 86 days in the UK and avoid UK tax altogether
    My retirement plan certainly involves a villa in Sri Lanka.
    It's a damn good choice. Lovely people, lovely food, lovely beaches, cooling mountains, lush forests, delicious tea, just gotta hope they avoid any more wars
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can't we go back to the good old days when people weren't allowed to bang on about immigration without being called racist? That was much better imo.

    That’s what got us into this mess
    That's highly arguable. But in any case let's give it another whirl.
This discussion has been closed.