Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Fatalists should read the last two paragraphs, along with the rest of the article.
Either one of Zelensky or Zaluzhny is going to have to triumph in their bitter power struggle because the stand off is counter (offensive) productive.
Lt. Gen. Cavoli (SACEUR) told them how to do the counter-offensive but they didn’t do it his way and fucked it up so they probably need a change of political or militarily leadership to make any progress.
See the recent two parter in the WaPo for the details.
'His way' involves overwhelming air superiority and rather more kit.
I wouldn't assume he'd have done any better.
Cavoli and Miley told them to focus on one point in the Russian positions and drive toward Melitopol. Z&Z (they are both blaming each other at this point) instead spread their forces out along a 600km line with what mass there was concentrated in the north. Result: net loss of territory to the RF in 2023.
Again, they're just assuming that would have worked, with no real evidence. Russia also had the ability to concentrate mass.
Neither you nor I claim to be armchair generals, but you better than I that NATO planning is predicated on overwhelming air superiority.
Eight MPs representing the Democratic Unionist Party are said to be considering voting against Rishi Sunak's Rwanda plan, Westminster sources tell me Ministers said to be aware. It would mean that just 21 Tory MPs are needed to defeat the Government.
This is the legacy of Boris Johnson when he lied to them and put a border in the Irish Sea after promising he would never do so.
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
Everyone pointed out his lies instead of pretending they didn’t exist
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
It wasn't actual mendacity, but disingenuity. Not an attractive feature in a political leader
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
Everyone pointed out his lies instead of pretending they didn’t exist
Ah, yes, I remember the 2019 Conservative election campaign well: "Boris is lying when he says we have an over ready Brexit, but he's got funny hair, so please vote for us." One of their catchier slogans.
Keir Starmer : “We’ve got to do this from a position of principle. Did we agree agree that we’d put this out to the public for a vote? Yes Did we agree that we’d accept that vote? Yes Have we got to accept that result? Yes So the first position is a matter of principle; Having done this, having got a result, we’ve got to accept it, & simply saying ‘well it’s better for us electorally if we do this or do that’ doesn’t help”
On 11 Sep 2017: Keir Starmer voted against ending the supremacy of EU law in UK law; against converting EU law into domestic law on the UK's exit from the European Union and against giving ministers the power to correct deficiencies in retained EU law.
On 17 Jan 2018: Keir Starmer voted against the United Kingdom leaving the European Union.
On 27 Mar 2019: Keir Starmer voted against leaving the European Union on the 12th of April 2019 without a withdrawal agreement.
On 29 Mar 2019: Keir Starmer voted against leaving the EU with a [withdrawal] agreement as soon as possible and not to approve the negotiated withdrawal agreement and associated documents
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.
This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.
On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
"Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.
In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.
This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
If you follow that logic, then the opposition can't criticise the government for any stupid thing the government did that the opposition opposed. Neither, without looking really stupid, can they criticise the government for stupid things that the opposition also supported. So, effectively, the opposition cannot criticise the government?
They can, but they can’t say ‘you’ve had seven years to make this work’ when they prevented them from getting started on it for three and a half of them - if he’d said ‘Four years they’ve had to make Brexit work’ that would be fine, even if that meant ignoring something else that might have distracted them in 2020-21
Making it work includes getting a deal through Parliament.
You seem to believe that wasn't the responsibility of the Brexiteers. Many of whom voted against all kinds of options.
Not to mention being LotO, let alone Shadow Brexit Secretary, gives you slightly less power than that required to run a pocket calculator.
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.
This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.
On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.
But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
"Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.
In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."
There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.
Hilarious listening to all these One Nation Tories boldly proclaiming that they will not support any amendments to the Rwanda Bill that make it even more draconian when everyone knows that they will vote through whatever ends up in front of them at third reading. Has there ever been a more craven, supine bunch?
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.
This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.
On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.
But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
So the reason that a government with a working majority failed to enact laws is because the opposition refused to behave?
"Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.
In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."
There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.
Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless
“ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”
Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.
No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.
This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.
On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.
But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
So the reason that a government with a working majority failed to enact laws is because the opposition refused to behave?
MPs on both sides of the house tried to prevent us leaving despite making pledges to accept the result. Sir Keir was one of the leading voices of that campaign, and today is trying to whitewash that, hence I’m mentioning it
Eight MPs representing the Democratic Unionist Party are said to be considering voting against Rishi Sunak's Rwanda plan, Westminster sources tell me Ministers said to be aware. It would mean that just 21 Tory MPs are needed to defeat the Government.
This is the legacy of Boris Johnson when he lied to them and put a border in the Irish Sea after promising he would never do so.
Don’t piss off the DUP.
They didn't back May either, when she proposed not having a border in the Irish Sea.
To paraphrase JK Rowling - you take too much Felix Felicis and all goes your way for a while - until the elastic snaps back and hits you in the face. Boris Johnson was an avid user too......
Comments
Feeling amongst rebels is this is about more than just this bill.
It’s the whole Sunak team vibe:
- “grown ups back in charge” narrative backfiring
- Shrugging off the 700,000 figure
- Lord Dave returns, as right wingers purged
- polling numbers
- token tax tinkering
A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.
https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Feeling amongst rebels is this is about more than just this bill.
It’s the whole Sunak team vibe:
- “grown ups back in charge” narrative backfiring
- Shrugging off the 700,000 figure
- Lord Dave returns, as right wingers purged
- polling numbers
- token tax tinkering
Russia also had the ability to concentrate mass.
Neither you nor I claim to be armchair generals, but you better than I that NATO planning is predicated on overwhelming air superiority.
Don’t piss off the DUP.
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26b0dd30-b987-4d9c-8a2b-a6e6915e6019
The problem comes down to you need enough resources to process claims quickly and a means of ensuring all appeals are exhausted equally quickly.
Sadly there is no money in that for the grifters this government seem to want to reward
I think we are back to William Hague’s comment in today’s Times are the Tory party in suicide mode.
Keir Starmer : “We’ve got to do this from a position of principle.
Did we agree agree that we’d put this out to the public for a vote? Yes
Did we agree that we’d accept that vote? Yes
Have we got to accept that result? Yes
So the first position is a matter of principle; Having done this, having got a result, we’ve got to accept it, & simply saying ‘well it’s better for us electorally if we do this or do that’ doesn’t help”
On 11 Sep 2017:
Keir Starmer voted against ending the supremacy of EU law in UK law; against converting EU law into domestic law on the UK's exit from the European Union and against giving ministers the power to correct deficiencies in retained EU law.
On 17 Jan 2018:
Keir Starmer voted against the United Kingdom leaving the European Union.
On 27 Mar 2019:
Keir Starmer voted against leaving the European Union on the 12th of April 2019 without a withdrawal agreement.
On 29 Mar 2019:
Keir Starmer voted against leaving the EU with a [withdrawal] agreement as soon as possible and not to approve the negotiated withdrawal agreement and associated documents
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25353/keir_starmer/holborn_and_st_pancras/divisions?policy=6761
"Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.
In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/macron-suffers-a-stunning-setback-over-his-immigration-crackdown/
But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/on-s-estime-en-danger-une-professeure-d-un-college-des-yvelines-diffamee-apres-avoir-montre-une-oeuvre-representant-cinq-femmes-nues_AV-202312110259.html
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