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That he should be so lucky – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    @MrHarryCole
    Feeling amongst rebels is this is about more than just this bill.

    It’s the whole Sunak team vibe:

    - “grown ups back in charge” narrative backfiring

    - Shrugging off the 700,000 figure

    - Lord Dave returns, as right wingers purged

    - polling numbers

    - token tax tinkering
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    isam said:

    OK, I get it. Anyone who opposed Brexit can do or say whatever they like without question

    7 years late, but welcome to the party...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    @MrHarryCole
    Feeling amongst rebels is this is about more than just this bill.

    It’s the whole Sunak team vibe:

    - “grown ups back in charge” narrative backfiring

    - Shrugging off the 700,000 figure

    - Lord Dave returns, as right wingers purged

    - polling numbers

    - token tax tinkering
  • DougSeal said:

    F1: as an aside, the first two races of the season (Bahrain and Saudi Arabia) will be on a Saturday, to accommodate Ramadan.

    So the drivers will be expected to go fast?
    I see what you did there.
    I’m glad somebody did, I was worried I was being too damn subtle as usual.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited December 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a pretty good piece on Ukraine's current bind.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/12/zelenskyy-ukraine-war-coalition-00131199

    Fatalists should read the last two paragraphs, along with the rest of the article.

    Either one of Zelensky or Zaluzhny is going to have to triumph in their bitter power struggle because the stand off is counter (offensive) productive.

    Lt. Gen. Cavoli (SACEUR) told them how to do the counter-offensive but they didn’t do it his way and fucked it up so they probably need a change of political or militarily leadership to make any progress.

    See the recent two parter in the WaPo for the details.
    'His way' involves overwhelming air superiority and rather more kit.

    I wouldn't assume he'd have done any better.
    Cavoli and Miley told them to focus on one point in the Russian positions and drive toward Melitopol. Z&Z (they are both blaming each other at this point) instead spread their forces out along a 600km line with what mass there was concentrated in the north. Result: net loss of territory to the RF in 2023.
    Again, they're just assuming that would have worked, with no real evidence.
    Russia also had the ability to concentrate mass.

    Neither you nor I claim to be armchair generals, but you better than I that NATO planning is predicated on overwhelming air superiority.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    BREAKING

    Eight MPs representing the Democratic Unionist Party are said to be considering voting against Rishi Sunak's Rwanda plan, Westminster sources tell me
    Ministers said to be aware. It would mean that just 21 Tory MPs are needed to defeat the Government.

    This is the legacy of Boris Johnson when he lied to them and put a border in the Irish Sea after promising he would never do so.

    Don’t piss off the DUP.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,172
    Labour MP George Howarth talking about how capacity to admit migrants is finite, and how public services are struggling to cope.

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26b0dd30-b987-4d9c-8a2b-a6e6915e6019
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    isam said:

    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    "... mysterious ways, his wonders to perform"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
    Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour MP George Howarth talking about how capacity to admit migrants is finite, and how public services are struggling to cope.

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26b0dd30-b987-4d9c-8a2b-a6e6915e6019

    Shipping 100 or so to Rwanda is really going to help.

    The problem comes down to you need enough resources to process claims quickly and a means of ensuring all appeals are exhausted equally quickly.

    Sadly there is no money in that for the grifters this government seem to want to reward
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
    Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
    However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited December 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    NEW: Tory rebels being threatened with whip removal if they vote against tonight.

    MPs told there will be “consequences”.

    It’s getting hairy.

    Only an issue if you lose the whip and Rishi calls a quick election - and if he lost the vote would he want do that for an election in February

    I think we are back to William Hague’s comment in today’s Times are the Tory party in suicide mode.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
    Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
    However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
    Everyone pointed out his lies instead of pretending they didn’t exist
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    NEW: Tory rebels being threatened with whip removal if they vote against tonight.

    MPs told there will be “consequences”.

    It’s getting hairy.

    Only an issue if you lose the whip and Rishi calls a quick election - and if he lost the vote would he want do that for an election in February
    Most of them know they'll be losing their seat at the next GE anyway.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    You had me at "when I first moved into project management"
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
     
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
    Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
    It wasn't actual mendacity, but disingenuity. Not an attractive feature in a political leader

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    isam said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    A relatively mundane bit of political spin from SKS is one of the most outrageous things you've ever heard (!) and you're dumbfounded (!) by the gall of it? I dread to witness how you'll respond (!!!) if and when he does something truly scandalous like (say) constantly lying to parliament. Your keyboard will be dreading it too, I bet.
    Lying outside of parliament is just as bad in my eyes
    However did you survive through the Johnson years?!
    Everyone pointed out his lies instead of pretending they didn’t exist
    Ah, yes, I remember the 2019 Conservative election campaign well: "Boris is lying when he says we have an over ready Brexit, but he's got funny hair, so please vote for us." One of their catchier slogans.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    isam said:

    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Jehovah >> Allah
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023
    During the 2017 GE Campaign

    Keir Starmer : “We’ve got to do this from a position of principle.
    Did we agree agree that we’d put this out to the public for a vote? Yes
    Did we agree that we’d accept that vote? Yes
    Have we got to accept that result? Yes
    So the first position is a matter of principle; Having done this, having got a result, we’ve got to accept it, & simply saying ‘well it’s better for us electorally if we do this or do that’ doesn’t help”

    On 11 Sep 2017:
    Keir Starmer voted against ending the supremacy of EU law in UK law; against converting EU law into domestic law on the UK's exit from the European Union and against giving ministers the power to correct deficiencies in retained EU law.

    On 17 Jan 2018:
    Keir Starmer voted against the United Kingdom leaving the European Union.

    On 27 Mar 2019:
    Keir Starmer voted against leaving the European Union on the 12th of April 2019 without a withdrawal agreement.

    On 29 Mar 2019:
    Keir Starmer voted against leaving the EU with a [withdrawal] agreement as soon as possible and not to approve the negotiated withdrawal agreement and associated documents

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25353/keir_starmer/holborn_and_st_pancras/divisions?policy=6761
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,172
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    NEW: Tory rebels being threatened with whip removal if they vote against tonight.

    MPs told there will be “consequences”.

    It’s getting hairy.

    Only an issue if you lose the whip and Rishi calls a quick election - and if he lost the vote would he want do that for an election in February

    I think we are back to William Hague’s comment in today’s Times are the Tory party in suicide mode.
    Hanging on for another year could be even worse for the Tories. Just makes them look desperate.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
    You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.

    This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
    Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
    Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.

    On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
    No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,172
    Sounds familiar.

    "Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.

    In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/macron-suffers-a-stunning-setback-over-his-immigration-crackdown/
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Jehovah >> Allah
    Yebbut they're one and the same aren't they? But it was odd of God to choose the Jews

  • geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Jehovah >> Allah
    Yebbut they're one and the same aren't they? But it was odd of God to choose the Jews

    Apparently the Jews are in control of everything on earth, so why not in heaven? Surely the army of racists can't be wrong?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...

    F1: as an aside, the first two races of the season (Bahrain and Saudi Arabia) will be on a Saturday, to accommodate Ramadan.

    So the drivers will be expected to go fast?
    Have you thought of a career in stand-up?
  • Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Selebian said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
    You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.

    This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
    If you follow that logic, then the opposition can't criticise the government for any stupid thing the government did that the opposition opposed. Neither, without looking really stupid, can they criticise the government for stupid things that the opposition also supported. So, effectively, the opposition cannot criticise the government?
    They can, but they can’t say ‘you’ve had seven years to make this work’ when they prevented them from getting started on it for three and a half of them - if he’d said ‘Four years they’ve had to make Brexit work’ that would be fine, even if that meant ignoring something else that might have distracted them in 2020-21
    Making it work includes getting a deal through Parliament.

    You seem to believe that wasn't the responsibility of the Brexiteers. Many of whom voted against all kinds of options.
    Not to mention being LotO, let alone Shadow Brexit Secretary, gives you slightly less power than that required to run a pocket calculator.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
    You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.

    This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
    Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
    Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.

    On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
    No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
    It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.

    But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds familiar.

    "Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.

    In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/macron-suffers-a-stunning-setback-over-his-immigration-crackdown/

    There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/on-s-estime-en-danger-une-professeure-d-un-college-des-yvelines-diffamee-apres-avoir-montre-une-oeuvre-representant-cinq-femmes-nues_AV-202312110259.html
  • Hilarious listening to all these One Nation Tories boldly proclaiming that they will not support any amendments to the Rwanda Bill that make it even more draconian when everyone knows that they will vote through whatever ends up in front of them at third reading. Has there ever been a more craven, supine bunch?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Shocking moment in Turkish Parliament today. MP Hasan Bismet threatened that Israel would suffer the "wrath of Allah".

    A few seconds later, he collapsed from a heart attack.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1734570685895225664?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Jehovah >> Allah
    Yebbut they're one and the same aren't they? But it was odd of God to choose the Jews

    Apparently the Jews are in control of everything on earth, so why not in heaven? Surely the army of racists can't be wrong?
    But not so odd as those who spurn the Jews yet choose a Jewish god

  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
    You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.

    This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
    Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
    Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.

    On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
    No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
    It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.

    But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
    So the reason that a government with a working majority failed to enact laws is because the opposition refused to behave?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds familiar.

    "Emmanuel Macron refused to accept the resignation of his interior minister on Monday evening after the government’s immigration bill was thrown out of parliament. It was a crushing humiliation for Gerald Darmanin, as well as Macron, and a moment of exquisite pleasure for their many political opponents.

    In an unprecedented show of unity, right and left came together to adopt by just five votes a motion proposed by the Green Party to reject the bill without even debating it. They did so, however, for different reasons."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/macron-suffers-a-stunning-setback-over-his-immigration-crackdown/

    There's another familiar French story at the moment with teachers being threatened after showing pupils a painting of Diana and Actaeon by Giuseppe Cesari.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/on-s-estime-en-danger-une-professeure-d-un-college-des-yvelines-diffamee-apres-avoir-montre-une-oeuvre-representant-cinq-femmes-nues_AV-202312110259.html
    Memories of DeSantis's Florida: https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166079167/tallahassee-classical-michelangelo-david-principal-fired
  • NEW THREAD

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer promises to "remove people more quickly so you don’t have to run up hotel bills".

    https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-in-buckinghamshire/

    “ Seven years they’ve had to make Brexit work.”

    Good Lord. He was a huge part of the reason they were hamstrung for the first three years! Utterly shameless

    “ If, in short, you want lower migration and higher wages […]Then I say again, this is what a changed Labour Party will deliver.”

    Oh, so lower migration is linked with higher wages? He should try coming on here and saying that!
    I see that Leavers still haven't moved on from blaming Remainers for how shit Brexit is.
    Come off it. For him to say there’s been seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he’d been straining every sinew to make sure it would never be enacted is one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard.

    No one in their right mind could fail to be dumbfounded by the gall of it, whichever side they voted for
    Maybe he wanted to stop it because he knew it was going to be shit. And now it's here, and it is shit. But still, that's somehow his fault and not the people who told us it was going to be great and are actually responsible for delivering it and made sure it was as shit as possible.
    You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether it’s good or bad, it’s that he is criticising the Tories for having had seven years to make Brexit work, when up until four years ago today he was part of a group of people that were obstructing them from being able to do anything at all.

    This would be like Just Stop Oil criticising the government for road congestion on the days they were the ones preventing cars from moving
    Tories had a majority. You can't blame opposition parties for opposing - the government with a majority is responsible for passing - or not passing - legislation.
    Well they didn’t have a majority for most of that era but, that aside, the point is that he is claiming they had seven years, when he was one of the main people responsible for it only actually being four.

    On this occasion I’m not criticising his campaign for a second referendum after committing to enact the result of the first, or generally putting a spoke in the wheels of getting a deal done, but the cheek of saying there’s been seven years to do it when it’s been four, thanks in a large way to him
    No. Brexit was the vote. Tories had a majority. That they chose to throw that away is not on Starmer. Had the Tories not been fighting over what Brexit means, it would have been done as they so wished.
    It would be nice if it had been that simple. The Tory party leadership campaigned for Remain and most MPs were Remain voters. It wasn’t really a party issue - some Labour MPs voted Leave. The problem was that there was a posse of MPs that would do anything to stall us actually leaving, and Sir Keir was at the head of that posse, despite having made accepting the vote ‘a matter of principle’, making his remarks today pretty shameful.

    But he’s boring, and he’s not Boris, so who cares?
    So the reason that a government with a working majority failed to enact laws is because the opposition refused to behave?
    MPs on both sides of the house tried to prevent us leaving despite making pledges to accept the result. Sir Keir was one of the leading voices of that campaign, and today is trying to whitewash that, hence I’m mentioning it
  • Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    BREAKING

    Eight MPs representing the Democratic Unionist Party are said to be considering voting against Rishi Sunak's Rwanda plan, Westminster sources tell me
    Ministers said to be aware. It would mean that just 21 Tory MPs are needed to defeat the Government.

    This is the legacy of Boris Johnson when he lied to them and put a border in the Irish Sea after promising he would never do so.

    Don’t piss off the DUP.
    They didn't back May either, when she proposed not having a border in the Irish Sea.
  • timpletimple Posts: 123
    To paraphrase JK Rowling - you take too much Felix Felicis and all goes your way for a while - until the elastic snaps back and hits you in the face. Boris Johnson was an avid user too......
This discussion has been closed.