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SystemSystem Posts: 12,681
edited February 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So Nick versus Nigel is on but it should be on national TV not LBC

Well done to Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage for agreeing to a debate ahead of the European elections. This will certainly add fizz to the Euro Elections and could boost turnout beyond the 35% of last time.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,908
    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?

    He ended up becoming a Voodoo Pole!!

    :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    I'm sure some channel will run it live.

    Agree about the Ladbrokes bet.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Clever of Nick in a way.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This should be good for both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. But we got another illustration of how Nigel Farage is a second rate politician when he didn't accept immediately.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    The loser from this could well be Labour and the Conservatives.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    anotherDave said:

    The loser from this could well be Labour and the Conservatives.

    You hope.
  • tamoshuntertamoshunter Posts: 12
    As a Scot will I be able to listen to the debate online?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    antifrank said:

    This should be good for both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. But we got another illustration of how Nigel Farage is a second rate politician when he didn't accept immediately.

    An alternative hypothesis is that it was an LBC event and he wanted to give Ferrari the exclusive - which Ferrari thanked him for. I know a week is a long time in politics, but I think 24 hours is acceptable. I do happen to think Farage is a second rate politician, I just don't think this illustrates that.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,908
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    You hope :)
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    anotherDave said:

    The loser from this could well be Labour and the Conservatives.

    You hope.
    The LDs and UKIP both want the voters to treat the EU Parliament elections as an in/out referendum. If that takes hold, Labour and the Conservatives will be stuck looking for unsure voters, in a low-turnout election.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,908
    CarlottaVance said:

    antifrank said:

    This should be good for both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. But we got another illustration of how Nigel Farage is a second rate politician when he didn't accept immediately.

    An alternative hypothesis is that it was an LBC event and he wanted to give Ferrari the exclusive - which Ferrari thanked him for. I know a week is a long time in politics, but I think 24 hours is acceptable. I do happen to think Farage is a second rate politician, I just don't think this illustrates that.....
    Does that make Clegg third rate, then?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,608
    Nigel Farage on LBC today

    "I feel personally very pro European, I love Europe, I think its a great place. What I don't like is the European Union"

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Is there not a danger for the LibDems and UKIP that the two big parties will now be able to argue that they've had their debate as the two minor parties, and that therefore the GE debates should be limited to Ed vs Dave (perhaps with a second 'also-rans' debate Nige vs Nick)?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,538
    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    anotherDave said:

    The loser from this could well be Labour and the Conservatives.

    You hope.
    The LDs and UKIP both want the voters to treat the EU Parliament elections as an in/out referendum. If that takes hold, Labour and the Conservatives will be stuck looking for unsure voters, in a low-turnout election.
    It makes good sense for both parties to do so. They each have their own unique selling point in this election. The Lib Dems are committed to ever closer union; UKIP want to pull out.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Off topic, but interesting:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/91378cbe-9a3f-11e3-a407-00144feab7de.html#axzz2twXVqmLS

    "Britain’s national minimum wage system needs to be reformed because it is no longer adequate to tackle low pay problems and inequality, according to the man who set it up in 1999.

    Prof Sir George Bain, founding chair of the Low Pay Commission, which recommends the minimum wage, told the Financial Times the current system had been successful but had “pretty much run its course”."

    The whole article is worth a read.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,873
    edited February 2014
    If Clegg is deemed the loser - and the LibDems do very badly in the Euro elections (which may or may not be causally linked) - then it will be entirely self-inflicted and surely he is out the door? New LibDem leader for the autumn conference?

    I have also made the point before that the electorate is deaf to Nick Clegg. They simply don't want to hear what he has to say any more. He is like a disowned child.

    Plus the Left will want to portray Farage as the winner - to further push UKIP and thereby to hurt the Tories.

    The Right will hardly want to portray the pro-European Clegg as having made a stout defence of the EU that is worthy of praise. So he will probably get a kicking there too.

    The Today programme might say a few nice things.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    What odds would you place on such an outcome?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,608
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Is there not a danger for the LibDems and UKIP that the two big parties will now be able to argue that they've had their debate as the two minor parties, and that therefore the GE debates should be limited to Ed vs Dave (perhaps with a second 'also-rans' debate Nige vs Nick)?

    That's how I think they should be
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Hunter, not a Scot but a Yorkshireman. I think I recall listening to LBC during one electoral period or other online, so I imagine you'll be able to.

    Welcome to pb.com.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    That's just not going to happen.

    This debate could help shore up the Lib Dem's 4th place from the threat of the Greens rather than propel them any higher than that.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    antifrank said:

    This should be good for both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. But we got another illustration of how Nigel Farage is a second rate politician when he didn't accept immediately.

    An alternative hypothesis is that it was an LBC event and he wanted to give Ferrari the exclusive - which Ferrari thanked him for. I know a week is a long time in politics, but I think 24 hours is acceptable. I do happen to think Farage is a second rate politician, I just don't think this illustrates that.....
    Does that make Clegg third rate, then?
    No, I think Clegg has played a blinder with this - what harm can it do to the Lib Dems currently dire prospects - it will get both Clegg & Farage airtime while Miliband and Cameron are left shuffling awkwardly on the sidelines trying to look 'statesmanlike'.....

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Is there not a danger for the LibDems and UKIP that the two big parties will now be able to argue that they've had their debate as the two minor parties, and that therefore the GE debates should be limited to Ed vs Dave (perhaps with a second 'also-rans' debate Nige vs Nick)?

    That was my immediate reaction yesterday. Possibly Clegg can come into the main one, but there's a case for not, especially if the LDs continue to poll in line with UKIP and both in the 10-15% range.

    It feels like there are two sets of debates: a final and a bronze/4th place contest
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The thing is, of course, that UKIP and the LDs have unequivocal positions on the EU. LAB and CON don't whiich could be highlighted by the debate.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    MikeSmithson said:

    The thing is, of course, that UKIP and the LDs have unequivocal positions on the EU. LAB and CON don't whiich could be highlighted by the debate.

    The LDs have some wiggle room. They can concede that the EU needs reform.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Is there not a danger for the LibDems and UKIP that the two big parties will now be able to argue that they've had their debate as the two minor parties, and that therefore the GE debates should be limited to Ed vs Dave (perhaps with a second 'also-rans' debate Nige vs Nick)?

    That's the other advantage.....and if we are to go to 'presidential' elections, what would be the rationale for having anyone other than the two potential 'presidents'?

  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,832
    Neil said:

    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    That's just not going to happen.

    This debate could help shore up the Lib Dem's 4th place from the threat of the Greens rather than propel them any higher than that.
    And in consequence keep the LD's at least 2 MEP seats if they stay ahead of the Greens (London and South-East)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    anotherDave said:

    The loser from this could well be Labour and the Conservatives.

    Which is why it won't be on TV unless the Conservatives and Labour are participating too. Even on radio, it's a little questionable as to whether giving only two party leaders a platform is consistent with impartiality rules.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I'm sure the army of euro-enthusiasts in the Lib dems south of England seats will be glad that Nick has finally decided to champion their cause......

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    edited February 2014
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Is there not a danger for the LibDems and UKIP that the two big parties will now be able to argue that they've had their debate as the two minor parties, and that therefore the GE debates should be limited to Ed vs Dave (perhaps with a second 'also-rans' debate Nige vs Nick)?

    Possibly, but the broadcasting rules should help the LibDems there, shouldn't they?

    Also the two leaders are unlikely to work together on this: Since FPTP is very, very close to a zero-sum game between Lab and Con, only one of them will really want the debate, while the other will secretly want to duck it. Once you get down to a two-person debate, it's very easy for the side that looks to come out behind to come up with a reason to kill it. On the other hand, while Clegg is still involved, the likely winner can threaten the likely loser with an empty chair, which is even worse for them than an unhelpful debate. (An empty chair isn't a very good threat for a two-person debate, because the remaining person would look like a plonker standing there alone arguing with a chair.)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    Nigel Farage on LBC today

    "I feel personally very pro European, I love Europe, I think its a great place. What I don't like is the European Union"

    Substitute "Europe" for "Scotland" and "SNP" for "European Union"....
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    antifrank said:

    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    What odds would you place on such an outcome?
    I'd call it unlikely, but fun if it happens. :-)

    Very few people are going to watch the debate. But then, its a low turnout election.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeSmithson said:

    The thing is, of course, that UKIP and the LDs have unequivocal positions on the EU. LAB and CON don't whiich could be highlighted by the debate.

    LAB do - sign up to everything and no referendum.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    edited February 2014
    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    The chances of the Conservatives finishing fourth are less than 1%. The Clegg-Farage debate will shift very few votes, not least because not many people will hear it, of those that do, many will already know how they're going to vote, and of those who are undecided, there'll be many factors they'll take into account in deciding which way to go, of which the debate will just be one.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    edited February 2014
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Hunter, not a Scot but a Yorkshireman. I think I recall listening to LBC during one electoral period or other online, so I imagine you'll be able to.

    Welcome to pb.com.

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Hunter, not a Scot but a Yorkshireman. I think I recall listening to LBC during one electoral period or other online, so I imagine you'll be able to.

    Welcome to pb.com.

    Link to LBC live online - the link works.

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-live-3578
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,538
    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    If the Conservatives were to finish fourth, I think those 45 signatures would be gathered pretty quickly.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    Could be good for the Lib Dems and good for UKIP
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,908
    edited February 2014
    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 ·now
    % of aggregate vote at GB by-elections since 2010: Lab 47%, Con 15%, LD 12%, UKIP 11%, Respect 5%, BNP 2%, Green 1%

    pic.twitter.com/DFWy0bbRu8
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edmundintokyo said:


    Possibly, but the broadcasting rules should help the LibDems there, shouldn't they?

    Dunno, would they rule out a pair of debates with the LibDems given the same coverage as UKIP?

    Of course the LibDems would be unlikely to be keen on the idea.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    That's just not going to happen.

    This debate could help shore up the Lib Dem's 4th place from the threat of the Greens rather than propel them any higher than that.
    And in consequence keep the LD's at least 2 MEP seats if they stay ahead of the Greens (London and South-East)
    The Lib Dems could beat the Greens nationally and still lose to them in places like London (like they did in 2012).
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    MikeSmithson said:

    The thing is, of course, that UKIP and the LDs have unequivocal positions on the EU. LAB and CON don't whiich could be highlighted by the debate.

    Do they? Are the LDs still unequivocally in favour of joining the Euro? What's UKIP's position on membership of the EEA?

    Similarly, Conservative policy has been clearly stated by Cameron; that's it's more moderate than either LD or UKIP isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    That said, I've no doubt that the participants in a Clegg-Farage debate would seek to take mutual free hits against both excluded parties.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited February 2014
    david_herdson said:

    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    The chances of the Conservatives finishing fourth are less than 1%. The Clegg-Farage debate will shift very few votes, not least because not many people will hear it, of those that do, many will already know how they're going to vote, and of those who are undecided, there'll be many factors they'll take into account in deciding which way to go, of which the debate will just be one.
    Few will see the debate. But if the election is seen as an in/out vote, which is what both UKIP and the LDs want, then the 'party of in' and the 'party of out' will be the winners.

    The papers/telly might like to push the in/out line just to try out their referendum coverage ideas.
  • tamoshuntertamoshunter Posts: 12
    edited February 2014
    dr_spyn said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Hunter, not a Scot but a Yorkshireman. I think I recall listening to LBC during one electoral period or other online, so I imagine you'll be able to.

    Welcome to pb.com.

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Hunter, not a Scot but a Yorkshireman. I think I recall listening to LBC during one electoral period or other online, so I imagine you'll be able to.

    Welcome to pb.com.

    Link to LBC live online - the link works.

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-live-3578
    Thank you. Should Salmond (PBUH) not win in September, I'd like to know the views of those who might be ruling over us after the next election.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    antifrank said:

    Off topic, but interesting:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/91378cbe-9a3f-11e3-a407-00144feab7de.html#axzz2twXVqmLS

    "Britain’s national minimum wage system needs to be reformed because it is no longer adequate to tackle low pay problems and inequality, according to the man who set it up in 1999.

    Prof Sir George Bain, founding chair of the Low Pay Commission, which recommends the minimum wage, told the Financial Times the current system had been successful but had “pretty much run its course”."

    The whole article is worth a read.

    "Options include having the LPC recommend a higher wage floor, probably non-mandatory, for sectors that can afford to pay more such as finance and parts of manufacturing, or a higher rate for certain regions, starting with London."

    Sounds like picking winners if you give different rules for different industries.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    taffys said:

    I'm sure the army of euro-enthusiasts in the Lib dems south of England seats will be glad that Nick has finally decided to champion their cause......

    What, all 4 of them?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    I'd also like to see a debate on the EU between Cameron and Miliband, to help clarify whether the voters think the correct position is to be in favour of the EU but too scared to say so, or in favour of the EU but too scared to say so very loudly.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Ed Miliband would have to be mad to not join this debate. That would put David Cameron in a very, very difficult position, while Miliband has little to lose.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edmundintokyo said:

    I'd also like to see a debate on the EU between Cameron and Miliband, to help clarify whether the voters think the correct position is to be in favour of the EU but too scared to say so, or in favour of the EU but too scared to say so very loudly.

    Genius.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    What, all 4 of them?

    Are you saying people will be surprised when Nick contradicts what that nice man in the yellow rosette said to them on the doorstep in 2010?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    anotherDave said:

    david_herdson said:

    anotherDave said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So imagine if Clegg "wins" this debate, and UKIP finish third in the Euros.

    It'll be Nick wot done it.

    If Clegg does well, the Conservatives may end up in fourth place. Not a good look.

    The chances of the Conservatives finishing fourth are less than 1%. The Clegg-Farage debate will shift very few votes, not least because not many people will hear it, of those that do, many will already know how they're going to vote, and of those who are undecided, there'll be many factors they'll take into account in deciding which way to go, of which the debate will just be one.
    Few will see the debate. But if the election is seen as an in/out vote, which is what both UKIP and the LDs want, then the 'party of in' and the 'party of out' will be the winners.

    The papers/telly might like to push the in/out line just to try out their referendum coverage ideas.
    The Conservatives and Labour are both parties of 'In' too, with varying degrees of enthusiasm and with differing views as to how they envisage their 'ideal' EU.

    In any case, voters won't see the EP elections as an In/Out vote. They'll see it as an opportunity to give both the EU and the UK government a bit of a cost-free kicking, the same as always.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edmundintokyo said:

    I'd also like to see a debate on the EU between Cameron and Miliband, to help clarify whether the voters think the correct position is to be in favour of the EU but too scared to say so, or in favour of the EU but too scared to say so very loudly.

    :-)

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    edmundintokyo said:

    I'd also like to see a debate on the EU between Cameron and Miliband, to help clarify whether the voters think the correct position is to be in favour of the EU but too scared to say so, or in favour of the EU but too scared to say so very loudly.

    Didn't you know... it's about 50/50 that Milliband's going to give us a referendum on the EU...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited February 2014
    Socrates said:

    Ed Miliband would have to be mad to not join this debate. That would put David Cameron in a very, very difficult position, while Miliband has little to lose.

    I think that is true, and if Ed does say Yes I'd expect Cameron to do the same.

    Of course there is always a risk in any debate, but the number one rule is that the media ramp up expectations about one of the participants (in this case it will be Farage) and then have a ready-made story about his shock under-performance. In a four-way debate Cameron would potentially have a good position as the sensible middle option. (Well, it worked for Nick Clegg in 2010).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    edited February 2014
    Farage had no option but to say yes (eventually) but will find he has kebabbed himself re leader debates. He has positioned himself at DPM level. So Cam can say, if asked: you've had your debate - how many debates with the PM's office do you want?

    Edit: that said it is great exposure for Farage.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,968
    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited February 2014
    antifrank said:

    This should be good for both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. But we got another illustration of how Nigel Farage is a second rate politician when he didn't accept immediately.

    Complete and utter baloney! Where is Cammo and Millipede when you want them? In their proverbial bunkers.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 54s
    UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his debate with Nick Clegg on Britain's membership of the EU will take place early or mid-April.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Surely ideal situ for Cam is Ed says yes and the Cons send Hague.

    Perfect.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    MalcolmG

    You will keep HRH - worry ye not.

    Norman Tebbit will be your governor general.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”

    Salmond will just see that as an opportunity to grab the throne... King Alec the First!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”

    I see someone has their 'sense of humour' dial turned down to zero......

    This was discussed a couple of days ago - the queen has to listen to the advice of the Prime Minister in her respective realms - only the PM of Scotland could tell her 'you're not the queen of Scotland'......

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”

    Nah, that's Peter Oborne being daft (he rights very perceptive articles about 25% of the time, and completely bonkers ones about 33%...)

    Assuming the people of iScot want it, then the Queen will become Queen of Scotland in the same way as she is Queen of Canada, etc. Very few people care whether it is a new monarchy, a resurrected monarchy or a dissolution of the personal union. It makes no difference in the real world.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”

    Constitutionally obliged, on matters pertaining to the country of which the Prime Minister is appointed. It would surely be a matter for the Scottish PM to raise with HM.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    MikeK said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 54s
    UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his debate with Nick Clegg on Britain's membership of the EU will take place early or mid-April.

    The IEA Brexit Prize winner will be announced on 8th April.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,832
    MikeK said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 54s
    UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his debate with Nick Clegg on Britain's membership of the EU will take place early or mid-April.

    Early or mid-April? That's somewhat early for an election on the 22nd of May isn't it? Gives everyone listening the opportunity to forget everything that's been said by then.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Lennon said:

    MikeK said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 54s
    UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his debate with Nick Clegg on Britain's membership of the EU will take place early or mid-April.

    Early or mid-April? That's somewhat early for an election on the 22nd of May isn't it? Gives everyone listening the opportunity to forget everything that's been said by then.
    Perhaps they want to have the debate before the campaign officially starts to avoid equal media time rules?
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    It's WinWin for Cleggy personally.

    He's now the unrivalled publicface of IN, even if St.Nigel cuts him off at the knees (certainly possible).

    With the EU finally getting worried by europe-wide euroscepticism, he's probably also gone up several notches in the opinions of his prospective employers for his next big job.

    He can achieve escape velocity even if the LDs crash and burn** behind him.


    (**how are those euro sceptic westcountry LD MPs feeling this morning?)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    LBC should broadcast on a medium wave frequency, would provide an alternative to Talk"MindlessBollocksaboutFootball"Sport which for some reason I listen to far more than I should or R5L.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,908
    Isn't HMQ a direct descendant of James I (or VI if you prefer!) in any case?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Wouldn't this chap have a strong claim?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    BannedInParis said:

    Wouldn't this chap have a strong claim?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria

    Also the worlds most enobled noble:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayetana_Fitz-James_Stuart,_18th_Duchess_of_Alba
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Can you imagine Henry VIII keeping quiet on constitutional issues.

    Send Princes Philip and Harry out to bat for "No"- no tiptoeing around the edges.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    No Queen Elizabeth for an independent Scotland? No problem, King Francis II is waiting in the wings:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Slackbladder said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the unionists are going to up the ante......

    “Respected Telegraph commentator Peter Oborne wrote yesterday that David Cameron might throw a spanner in Scotland’s constitutional works.

    He wrote: Will the Queen be allowed to remain as Scottish monarch? I have no doubt that the Queen herself would strongly prefer that she did. But it is not simply a matter for her. She is constitutionally obliged to take the advice of the Prime Minister, David Cameron.

    Cameron has already denied Scotland the pound sterling. He is entitled to deny the Scots the House of Windsor, especially since the Scots had their own separate monarch before James the VI and I unified the crowns of England and Scotland in 1603.”

    Salmond will just see that as an opportunity to grab the throne... King Alec the First!
    He'd actually be Alexander IV - there've already been three King Alexanders of Scotland.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Isn't HMQ a direct descendant of James I (or VI if you prefer!) in any case?

    Yes. She's also half-Scottish.
  • AndypetAndypet Posts: 36
    LBC has just gone national on DAB radio.

    This could well be an effort by them to promote that - in which case they will fight hard to host the debate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    edited February 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Can you imagine Henry VIII keeping quiet on constitutional issues.

    Send Princes Philip and Harry out to bat for "No"- no tiptoeing around the edges.

    Yeah, that'd go down a treat everywhere outside the realm of Castle Greyskull.

    'Yer PM won't engage with you, but here's a nice-but-dim & his grumpy granda to be going on with.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    edited February 2014
    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Alexander's not a good name for a king. They'll always look a bit feeble compared to a certain Macedonian.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Divvie, nice-but-dim? Both of them have seen active service.
  • tamoshuntertamoshunter Posts: 12
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.

    Yes, he was the Last King of Scotland. Must have loads of bairns up for the role.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.

    Idi Amin has no shortage of progeny:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin#Family_and_associates
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    tamoshunter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.

    Yes, he was the Last King of Scotland. Must have loads of bairns up for the role.

    I think he gave them Scottish names like Campbell and Frazer.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    edited February 2014
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Divvie, nice-but-dim? Both of them have seen active service.

    'Harry completed his education at Eton with two A-Levels (achieving a grade B in art and D in Geography)'

    Fair enough, I withdraw the dim.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    edited February 2014
    tamoshunter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.

    Yes, he was the Last King of Scotland. Must have loads of bairns up for the role.

    Blimey.

    Edit was meant for antifrank

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    RobD said:

    BannedInParis said:

    Wouldn't this chap have a strong claim?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria

    Also the worlds most enobled noble:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayetana_Fitz-James_Stuart,_18th_Duchess_of_Alba
    Mr D., as was pointed out on here the other day, she is descended for the illegitimate side of Jame's offspring, hence the FitzJames in her name, and therefore can have no claim on the throne.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    edited February 2014
    I like Prince Harry and feel guilty for using him to troll on Comment is Free a few years ago.
  • RandomRandom Posts: 107
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Alexander's not a good name for a king. They'll always look a bit feeble compared to a certain Macedonian.

    Oh, I dunno. I think Tsar Alexander I, who marched into Paris less than two years after Napoleon invaded Russia at the head of the largest army Europe had ever seen up to that date, has as least as good a claim to add lustre to the name:-)...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Andypet said:

    LBC has just gone national on DAB radio.

    This could well be an effort by them to promote that - in which case they will fight hard to host the debate.

    So LBC not available on standard national radio. It's not a national station.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    HurstLlama said:

    RobD said:

    BannedInParis said:

    Wouldn't this chap have a strong claim?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria

    Also the worlds most enobled noble:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayetana_Fitz-James_Stuart,_18th_Duchess_of_Alba
    Mr D., as was pointed out on here the other day, she is descended for the illegitimate side of Jame's offspring, hence the FitzJames in her name, and therefore can have no claim on the throne.
    Mere technicalities ;-)
  • tamoshuntertamoshunter Posts: 12
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tamoshunter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Does Idi Amin have any descendants?

    Surely they have a better claim to be the Monarch of an Independent Scotland.

    Yes, he was the Last King of Scotland. Must have loads of bairns up for the role.

    Blimey.

    I think a new country needs a new bloodline anyway, so how about Nicholas van Hoogstraten? Regal name, and He likes building expensive palaces, and large country estates.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Divvie, nice-but-dim? Both of them have seen active service.

    'Harry completed his education at Eton with two A-Levels (achieving a grade B in art and D in Geography)'

    Fair enough, I withdraw the dim.

    On the basis of that evidence?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    david_herdson said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Isn't HMQ a direct descendant of James I (or VI if you prefer!) in any case?

    Yes. She's also half-Scottish.
    Really? Her mother was born in London. Her maternal grandfather, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, was also born in London. Her maternal Grandmother, the countess was, surprise, surprise, born in London.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Random, not really my period, but even given that, the Tsar is nowhere near the equal of Alexander. Nobody is. He was immensely capable *and* lucky as hell (until the end, obviously). It's hard for more recent chaps to compete, because they tend not to lead their armies literally from the front.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,968
    MikeSmithson said:

    Andypet said:

    LBC has just gone national on DAB radio.

    This could well be an effort by them to promote that - in which case they will fight hard to host the debate.

    So LBC not available on standard national radio. It's not a national station.

    Must be recent change of direction as they removed the DAB service from Scotland about 6 months ago. My wife liked it and was most unhappy when they removed it.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    malcolmg said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Andypet said:

    LBC has just gone national on DAB radio.

    This could well be an effort by them to promote that - in which case they will fight hard to host the debate.

    So LBC not available on standard national radio. It's not a national station.

    Must be recent change of direction as they removed the DAB service from Scotland about 6 months ago. My wife liked it and was most unhappy when they removed it.
    Clearly preparing for independence already....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    HurstLlama said:

    david_herdson said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Isn't HMQ a direct descendant of James I (or VI if you prefer!) in any case?

    Yes. She's also half-Scottish.
    Really? Her mother was born in London. Her maternal grandfather, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, was also born in London. Her maternal Grandmother, the countess was, surprise, surprise, born in London.
    Being born in a stable does not make one a donkey.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On which TV channel do they broadcast the Johnstone's Paint trophy final?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,043
    Off-topic:
    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/02/developers-want-to-turn-this-old-london-dock-into-a-chinese-super-hub/

    A Chinese developer wants to buy London's Albert Dock and build it into a European high-tech centre. It's 35-acres; in comparison, the Canary Wharf estate is nearly 100 acres.

    What could go wrong? Well one thing: preventing foreigners from buying new properties in London.

    Does anyone really believe Miliband is anything other than a clueless idiot?
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