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The let’s get Rwanda done election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,839

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    I want to buy my brother in law a really good knife for Christmas

    What's the brand that everyone keeps raving about on here?

    Perhaps I should have been clear that I'm looking for a kitchen or bartender's knife. He's
    a bar manager and home chef from Turin

    Even though when I was four, my sister two years older who once did a shit in her swimming costume in a hotel swimming pool near the Epcot Center, where we were on holiday with our grandparents, and then swam next to me and released the shit from her swimming costume, climbed out of the pool and told my grandparents that I'd shat in the pool

    The pool had to be evacuated

    I had no idea why, but it was blamed on me

    My sister finally owned up when I was 16, she was 18
    These things scar a person. I know of someone who has an ongoing dispute with a sibling on who really broke a TV about 25 years ago (person claims they only took the blame in the end as there was a we're all sitting here until someone owns up situation).
    Being an only child is awesome. You get spoiled rotten plus none of this nonsense.
    On the contrary - you are to blame for everything.
    I was a perfect child. I think the naughtiest thing I ever did was break my grandad’s glasses when I was 9 months.
    Discovering at an early age that justice is blind ?
    I actually I did a much naughtier thing when I was 2.

    Playing hide and go seek with my mother I decided to hide in the washing machine, it is the only time in childhood my mother ever hit me. It explains my life long hatred of washing and ironing.
    There appears to be a superfluous and odd-sounding 'go' that has found itself within 'hide and seek' in the post above.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    l

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    If a government can successfully legislate to take human rights from one set of people, what’s to stop it doing the same to another set and another and so on? A cornerstone of any free, democratic country is protection of minorities. The UK government is seeking to legislate that away.

    If a UK government can successfully legislate to remove its actions from legal scrutiny, as this government is seeking to do, what is to stop it legislating to end elections, create a one party state, end press freedom and so on?

    The constitutional implications of the Rwanda bill becoming implementable law are huge. Effectively, it would demonstrate our current settlement offers no protection against tyranny in a situation where the executive has a majority in the House of Commons.

    That has literally been the constitutional settlement for centuries - and has indeed been demonstrated clearly at times, most obviously, recently, with the Covid restrictions (which whether justified or not were immense infringements on civil liberties).

    There are no constitutional implications to the Rwanda Bill. There are political ones.
    Can you tell me the last time the UK government legislated to allow itself to break the law? Not to change the law, but to break it?

    The current constitutional settlement wrests on the notion that there are some things the government won’t do even if, in theory, it can. I’d suggest that a couple of those are legislating to remove all human rights from a defined group of people and legislating to allow the government to break the law. That goes beyond politics, although only politics can resolve it - if the government does not legislate that away.

    Well, your lot decided to try and cancel democracy by annulling a referendum - Britain’s biggest ever vote - before the result was even enacted. So frankly you can fuck off with this pious bullshit

    Not least because Sir Kir Royale was a leading “2nd voter”

    My lot?

    I did not vote Labour in December 2019. However, I did think that MPs elected on a manifesto promise to oppose a No Deal Brexit were perfectly entitled to seek to prevent one. The MPs that did not have such a right were the Tory ones.

    Sir Keir wanted a second referendum even if the PM and the EU agreed a deal before the 2019 GE; one of the options had to be remain, and he would campaign for Remain

    And Labour put that case to the British people and was roundly defeated.

    Yes, but you can’t get away with that, sorry.

    Sir Keir wanted a second referendum with remain an option, in which he would campaign for remain when there was no GE in the offing

    This is despite being elected in 2017 after saying respecting the result was ‘an important point of principle’
    Starmer did not get what he wanted. But what he wanted was to put his case to the British people, not impose an outcome on them.

    He said in the 2017 GE campaign

    We’ve got to do this from a position of principle.
    Did we agree agree that we’d put this out to the public for a vote? Yes
    Did we agree that we’d accept that vote? Yes
    Have we got to accept that result? Yes
    So the first position is a matter of principle; Having done this, having got a result, we’ve got to accept it, & simply saying ‘well it’s better for us electorally if we do this or do that’ doesn’t help”


    Then in 2019 when the Tories were between Prime Ministers, he said

    I’m really pleased that whatever outcome the next Prime Minister puts before us, whether that’s a deal of some sort, or no deal, we’ve agreed that it must be subject to another referendum, & in that referendum Remain must be an option and Labour will be campaigning for Remain

    That’s a really important point of principle ”

    So he did want to re run the referendum without a GE.
    After saying that would be wrong.
    And both were matters of principle
    This doesn't look like someone who has taken my well-meant advice to not obsess about SKS.
    You don’t like it, and you want him to shut up, because you know @isam is completely right
    It's become such a boring point now that I can't be bothered with it. The far more important thing - as I've said to isam - is he doesn't fall into a deep hole of (for want of a better term) 'StarmerDerangementSyndrome'. I know what that's like (the Johnson variety), obsessive dislike of a prominent politician, it eats you up, brings out the worst in you, stops you living properly. It'll be even worse for isam because me and BJ only had 3 years whereas he could be looking at a decade of Keir as our PM, as his PM. So that's 10 years of misery-guts negativity and nitpicking. I don't want that for him.
    The problem is when something like Starmer Derangement Syndrome (or BDS, or CDS...) gets called even when the criticism has some validity. In other words, when the fanbois are so fanboish they cannot even see when their guy has done something wrong.

    Remember the way some defended Corbyn when he was Labour leader, even when it was obvious he was utterly wrong?

    I was a firm, and early, critic of Boris on here, but I now find myself in the somewhat odd position of occasionally defending him against people who were lauding him back in 2016/7.
    All politicians do Bad Things. Especially the ones we like. The oddity around Currygate was that the motivation seemed essentially to be revenge for the fact that Boris got caught. If they proved that Starmer had done the same then Boris wasn't bad after all.

    I can't even argue that the Starmer event was ill-advised. If you recall there were various photos released of politicians of all parties doing similar during the campaign - and do what, the law had been changed. The absurdity was that after the GOTCHA moment fizzled they kept going at it and at it and at it. isam still is. Baffling.

    We can all point at laws we disagree with. But disagreeing with a law doesn't disapply it...
    I think Starmer was in the wrong over Currygate; but there seems little point in arguing over it on here. For one thing, I think calling it a 'work event' is pushing things - especially if alcohol was involved. Secondly, there's the (ahem) minor fact that the virus did not care if it was a work event or not: it was not sensible to get people from all over the country together to have food/get pissed. Thirdly, there's the hypocrisy of SKS wanting to lock us down further 'for our safety' later on. Fourthly, after the Mitchell Affair, I don't trust the police to be impartial when it comes to politics.

    I know this will *enrage* Labour people, but that's my view. I see a vast gulf between their views on Boris/partgate and Starmer/beergate, when there's not much gap between he events in reality.
    Couldn’t agree more
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