FWIW, the three most common colours in the national flags of the countries of the world are red, white and blue (in that order). Or at least they were when I counted them several years ago. So let's have no more of this nonsense of changing the Union Flag, either in terms of colours or design.
The blue in the Union flag is a different shade to that on the Saltire in any case.
Oh is it? That comletely changes everything then. Obviously we need to have a completely new flag with a completely different set of colours.
Not so fast Stan ....
When the Union Flag was adopted several shades of blue appeared. This was because of the different natural dyes used. Maritime flags tended to be darker blue so as to last longer.
About 10 years ago the Scottish government, after advice from the Lord Lyon, formalised the saltire blue at pantone 300 which is a slightly lighter shade than the pantone 280 used on the Union Flag.
If the Saltire has a different colour blue to the Union flag's blue, then they can't claim any ownership over the latter. We should thus be able to keep the flag should they leave.
As you may have guessed from the name the blue in the Union Jack represents the European Union.
You've got confused, because it's the other way round. The EU flag uses a navy background as a homage to the background of the Union flag, in thanks to the British for being the only nation to stand firm against National Socialism for the entire war, and allowing the democratic regimes across the rest of the continent that exist today.
What, no Canadians, Indians, Australians, Kiwis ...?
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Black gold. Retirement age will be reduced to 35. Also every household will be given a tartan unicorn which dispenses a limitless supply of Bucky from it's horn.
About 10 years ago the Scottish government, after advice from the Lord Lyon, formalised the saltire blue at pantone 300 which is a slightly lighter shade than the pantone 280 used on the Union Flag.
Pantone 300 - for a flag so healthy it shines.
That comment is Head and Shoulders above all others ....
If the Scottish flag has been standardised at Pantone 300, does that make it different from the blue of the Union flag? Has the Union flag been officially standardised at 280?
FWIW, the three most common colours in the national flags of the countries of the world are red, white and blue (in that order). Or at least they were when I counted them several years ago. So let's have no more of this nonsense of changing the Union Flag, either in terms of colours or design.
The blue in the Union flag is a different shade to that on the Saltire in any case.
Oh is it? That comletely changes everything then. Obviously we need to have a completely new flag with a completely different set of colours.
Not so fast Stan ....
When the Union Flag was adopted several shades of blue appeared. This was because of the different natural dyes used. Maritime flags tended to be darker blue so as to last longer.
About 10 years ago the Scottish government, after advice from the Lord Lyon, formalised the saltire blue at pantone 300 which is a slightly lighter shade than the pantone 280 used on the Union Flag.
If the Saltire has a different colour blue to the Union flag's blue, then they can't claim any ownership over the latter. We should thus be able to keep the flag should they leave.
As you may have guessed from the name the blue in the Union Jack represents the European Union.
You've got confused, because it's the other way round. The EU flag uses a navy background as a homage to the background of the Union flag, in thanks to the British for being the only nation to stand firm against National Socialism for the entire war, and allowing the democratic regimes across the rest of the continent that exist today.
What, no Canadians, Indians, Australians, Kiwis ...?
Theres a great Monty Python sketch in there.....
"When against the might of the Nazis Britain stood alone...
Apart from Canada.
Yes..when Britain stood alone with Canada...
And Australia....
Yes, when Britain stood alone with Canada and Australia...
Black gold. Retirement age will be reduced to 35. Also every household will be given a tartan unicorn which dispenses a limitless supply of Bucky from it's horn.
Hmmm....
In a way, I hope they do get independence because the entertainment value of watching the wheels drop off Salmond's wagon would be immense.
Personally I think the biggest mistake the SNP ever made was limiting the vote to Scotland. If England was allowed to vote I suspect Scottish independence would be a done deed.
Farage should accept - and challenge the other parties to do so too, if they accept he's effectively in the General Election debates and he'll get his chance to frame every issue as about Europe, as is his wont.
For the two main parties it would be a bit of a nightmare due to having to articulate their more nuanced positions directly rather than trying to woo hardliners through implication. Additionally Dave isn't a very good debater, has a PM's authority to lose and would be loathe to give Ukip any more publicity than absolutely necessary.
Ed I think can be rather a good debater, his more understated conversational style worked well in the Lab leadership debates and he has his best PMQs when they take on a structure more like a debate rather than the search for a big soundbite.
However there are two things that would make it uncomfortable. Firstly because putting Farage in the GE debates would ruin any attempt to frame things as Ed taking on an unfair government on behalf of people as it would turn into the Nigel Farage show and allow Cameron to appear reasonable by comparison, and secondly because Europe's a bit of a non-issue for Labour (as it actually was until recently for most voters if it isn't still to many of those who Ed needs to and can win over). There's not the love of it you find among the Lib Dems nor the genuine distaste of the Tories. In a debate specifically about Europe there's a danger he'd be left with little to say other than that it's a bit daft we're all here doing this, purely because a lot of people distrust the other three of us so much that they're prepared to give Admiral Ackbar a shot.
Farage should go for it and demand the other parties do, then the wag with the chicken suit can move on to Dave (or at least every hack will spend weeks asking every junior minister or Tory backbencher whether he thinks he should join in).
If the Scottish flag has been standardised at Pantone 300, does that make it different from the blue of the Union flag? Has the Union flag been officially standardised at 280?
Black gold. Retirement age will be reduced to 35. Also every household will be given a tartan unicorn which dispenses a limitless supply of Bucky from it's horn.
Hmmm....
In a way, I hope they do get independence because the entertainment value of watching the wheels drop off Salmond's wagon would be immense.
Personally I think the biggest mistake the SNP ever made was limiting the vote to Scotland. If England was allowed to vote I suspect Scottish independence would be a done deed.
And full independence rather than DevoMax, which one suspects is what Salmond really hoped to get.
"competitors are invited to compose a Blueprint for Britain outside the EU, covering the process of withdrawal from the EU and the post-exit repositioning of the UK in the global trading and governance systems"
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what they come up with. It has been a massive gap in the debate for twenty years that the BOOers have failed to put together a serious blueprint.
A point Tim Congdon made in his speech at the UKIP conference was how outrageous it is that neither HMG or HM opposition has done (or at least published!) any cost/benefit research on the UK's membership of the EU.
''There's also more than enough out of touch tories who seem utterly clueless as to how toxic they are elsewhere never mind in scotland. ''
Surely Mick the key group here isn;t English tory voters, its English swing and labour voters.
Labour have calculated that leaving a currency union open would go down very badly with their own voters, or there is no way they would have trooped in behind Osborne. No way at all.
Labour's default position is opposition to the tories, even on matters they don;t intend to change in 2015.
But not as big a default as their hatred of the SNP, they vote against their own policies to spite the SNP. They are locked in the bunker, Lamont comes out every Thursday for a pounding at FM questions and then is never seen till the next one, incredible.
Curious defining 60% of SNP voters and 59% of Yes supporters as
Split on an issue the scottish public simply doesn't rate as a top priority or even close to it.
And when was that poll taken? Since you regard early December as "last week", maybe "a fortnight ago"?
Go easy, Mick's going through the 5 stages of currency loss. We've had denial, we've just had anger, now we're moving in to bargaining ( we won't pay the debt ) to be followed by depression and acceptance.
Fair enough.
Do you think a wee game of "Eck's Call My Bluff" would cheer him up?
The overall is evenly split, but what do posh Scots vs poor Scots think of Eck's claim that Westminster is bluffing on no currency union?
Net agree Westminster is bluffing;
AB: -8 C1: -2 C2: -1 DE:+7
Looks like Westminster hasn't fooled all those DE finance workers and professionals eh?
MIss C, Salmond is indeed skilled at pissing off Englishmen.
He is good at irritating Ulster women too..... (though I have been over here so long that in another 3 years I will have spent more than half my life in England)
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Copy of a letter sent by DWP , when asked about pensions. Also up till 2030 Scotland is in abetter position than rump UK on ratios of pensioners
Mr (Address Redacted)
State Pension
In reply to your letter regarding your State Pension if Scotland votes for Independence.
If Scotland does become Independent this will have no effect on your State Pension you will continue to receive it just as you do at present.
In answer to your second question, anyone who is in receipt or entitled to claim State Pension can still receive this when they live abroad, If this is an European country or a country where Britain has a reciprocal agreement they will continue to receive annual increases as if they stayed in Great Britain.
If the country does not fall into the above criteria then the rate of State Pension remains payable at the rate it was when they left Britain and no annual increases will be applied until such times they come back to live in Britain permanently.
If you have any further queries don’t hesitate to contact us our details are at the top of this letter.
In case anyone else is watching the final of the women's curling, I want Canada to win. My sister lives in Edmonton. Anybody who cheers for Sweden (perhaps through misguided European solidarity) is a thought-criminal.
"competitors are invited to compose a Blueprint for Britain outside the EU, covering the process of withdrawal from the EU and the post-exit repositioning of the UK in the global trading and governance systems"
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what they come up with. It has been a massive gap in the debate for twenty years that the BOOers have failed to put together a serious blueprint.
A point Tim Congdon made in his speech at the UKIP conference was how outrageous it is that neither HMG or HM opposition has done (or at least published!) any cost/benefit research on the UK's membership of the EU.
I'm not sure that cost/benefit research would necessarily say anything about the cost: it's all too interrelated. CBR's are complex enough beasts at the best of times on relatively simple projects, and the assumptions you would have to make on EU membership is so large that any answer would vary massively.
For instance, if you are anti-EU you could say that getting out would allow us to be more competitive with the rest of the world, and increase exports by (plucking figure out of the air) 5%. If you are pro-EU, you can easily claim that getting out would cost us 25% of our exports to the EU.
Fiddle with these assumptions according to your biases, and you'll get answers that fit your biases. Any scholarly study to get realistic figures would just reflect the biases of the scholars doing the study.
The anti-EU people may be better off developing a detailed picture of the UK outside the EU: what organisations they will remain part of, which they will leave, and then place on top how they would structure an independent UK. We can then work from that.
Mr Tyndall might be a good person to do that: he seems to have put a lot of thought into it. :-)
A major downside for Farage is that this debate is not just too small but too early.
There's no pressure from panicking tory Eurosceptics yet as that will likely occur when the kipper vote rises before the May EU elections. Straight afterwards too of course but right now tory rebels are keeping their heads down while trying not to get too upset over the likes of this
Cammie is also having Merkel over and he no doubt hopes she will save him from his own backbenchers by throwing him some scraps.
However, it's stretching all the bounds of credibility to pretend that there is not now a sizable hard core of rebel tory MPs who will simply not trust Cammie on this issue. They will be the ones making noises about 'even Clegg having the guts to take on Farage' in private.
If the EU elections are terrible for the tories then that grumbling will become shouting and impossible to ignore as it will be joined by the less strident Eurosceptics.
Farage harnessing tory EU anger will be his priority, so any debate, even if it was just with Clegg, would be focused on winning over yet more soft tory kipper waverers and activists while stil trying to claw in the disaffected labour and lib dem voters.
In reply to your letter regarding your State Pension if Scotland votes for Independence.
If Scotland does become Independent this will have no effect on your State Pension you will continue to receive it just as you do at present.
In answer to your second question, anyone who is in receipt or entitled to claim State Pension can still receive this when they live abroad, If this is an European country or a country where Britain has a reciprocal agreement they will continue to receive annual increases as if they stayed in Great Britain.
If the country does not fall into the above criteria then the rate of State Pension remains payable at the rate it was when they left Britain and no annual increases will be applied until such times they come back to live in Britain permanently.
The blue and white cross is for St Andrew (one of Russia's patron saints). The red and white part is more obscure, historically, but is probably influenced by the flag of St George (patron saint of Moscow).
If the Scottish flag has been standardised at Pantone 300, does that make it different from the blue of the Union flag? Has the Union flag been officially standardised at 280?
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Copy of a letter sent by DWP , when asked about pensions. Also up till 2030 Scotland is in abetter position than rump UK on ratios of pensioners
Mr (Address Redacted)
State Pension
In reply to your letter regarding your State Pension if Scotland votes for Independence.
If Scotland does become Independent this will have no effect on your State Pension you will continue to receive it just as you do at present.
In answer to your second question, anyone who is in receipt or entitled to claim State Pension can still receive this when they live abroad, If this is an European country or a country where Britain has a reciprocal agreement they will continue to receive annual increases as if they stayed in Great Britain.
If the country does not fall into the above criteria then the rate of State Pension remains payable at the rate it was when they left Britain and no annual increases will be applied until such times they come back to live in Britain permanently.
If you have any further queries don’t hesitate to contact us our details are at the top of this letter.
Yours etc
unquote
Malcolm, I'm surprised that you are so reassured by that letter. It's highly ambiguous about the future for non Britons.
Curious defining 60% of SNP voters and 59% of Yes supporters as
Split on an issue the scottish public simply doesn't rate as a top priority or even close to it.
And when was that poll taken? Since you regard early December as "last week", maybe "a fortnight ago"?
Go easy, Mick's going through the 5 stages of currency loss. We've had denial, we've just had anger, now we're moving in to bargaining ( we won't pay the debt ) to be followed by depression and acceptance.
Oh dear. Poor old Brooky. You still can't deal with the reality that you and the other shriekers were as wrong about Osbrowne's disasterous intervention as it's possible to get.
The polls didn't get better after Osbrowne's incompetent intervention chum, they got worse. Sorry to break it to you old chap but that's what happened.
Poor old PB tories and right wing chumps. A week long shrieking Osbornegasm is all it takes for them to forget that most of them cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles. While in the real world the polls and the posters on PB who weren't quite so stupid and gullible were telling a very different story.
Have another week pointlessly shrieking away about currency. It's good entertainment for the rest of us simply because you still don't realise how pointless and futile it is.
Curious defining 60% of SNP voters and 59% of Yes supporters as
Split on an issue the scottish public simply doesn't rate as a top priority or even close to it.
And when was that poll taken? Since you regard early December as "last week", maybe "a fortnight ago"?
Go easy, Mick's going through the 5 stages of currency loss. We've had denial, we've just had anger, now we're moving in to bargaining ( we won't pay the debt ) to be followed by depression and acceptance.
Oh dear. Poor old Brooky. Can't deal with the reality that you and the other shriekers were as wrong about Osbrowne's disasterous intervention as it's possible to get.
The polls didn't get better after Osbrowne's incompetent intervention chum, they got worse.
Poor old PB tories and right wing chumps. A week long shrieking Osbornegasm is all it takes for them to forget that most of them cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles. While in the real world the polls and the posters on PB who weren't quite so stupid and gullible were telling a very different story.
"...one of the things that struck me, and I haven’t appreciated in the past, one of the reasons why Nick Clegg is a committed and passionate supporter of the European Union, for his mother is from the Netherlands and his wife is Spanish."
Farage's wife is German, so how does that argument follow?
You found an entire week to completely waste your time shrieking away pointlessly on it so another week certainly won't do you any harm. Have at it chum.
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of Scotland.
UK unemployment rate 7.2% Scotland unemployment rate 7.1%
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of economics.
Pensioners are not included in either the numerator or denominator of the unemployment rate, meaning the unemployment rate is irrelevant to the dependency ratio.
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of Scotland.
UK unemployment rate 7.2% Scotland unemployment rate 7.1%
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of economics.
Pensioners are not included in either the numerator or denominator of the unemployment rate, meaning the unemployment rate is irrelevant to the dependency ratio.
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
Think it would suit UKIP far better for all four leaders to participate as it would enhance the "they're all the same" image UKIP like to project... Dave, Ed & Nick would all be agreeing with each other about how positive mass immigration has been, which would leave Farage an open goal.
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved. Just debating Clegg makes it look as though (a) they are two fringe parties and (b) Gives Cameron the chance to duck the fact he is a raging Europhile, when UKIP want to turn the heat from his own backbenchers up to 11
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved.
You think Clegg and the lib dems endlessly taunting him about being gutless will go down well with the kipper base? I somehow doubt it. It might be unfortumate for Farage that Clegg is acting as Cammie's human shield but Farage also knows that he's not going to get handed publicity on a plate from anywhere else anytime soon. The floods did not help him. He needs to get back in the public eye fairly soon if he wants to keep the pressure on.
What he should have done is take note of Clegg making these noises a while ago so he could be the one who initiated it and laid down the terms. Too late now though.
Think it would suit UKIP far better for all four leaders to participate as it would enhance the "they're all the same" image UKIP like to project... Dave, Ed & Nick would all be agreeing with each other about how positive mass immigration has been, which would leave Farage an open goal.
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved. Just debating Clegg makes it look as though (a) they are two fringe parties and (b) Gives Cameron the chance to duck the fact he is a raging Europhile, when UKIP want to turn the heat from his own backbenchers up to 11
I think that's overthinking it. At this stage, at all stages, before during and after the euros and the GE for that matter, NFarage should be looking to gain as much exposure as possible.
Let him get NClegg under his belt and then he can work out his next move.
The nuances of how it positions him (when of course NClegg is DPM) and whether that is good or bad is I think a question for further down the line.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
You found an entire week to completely waste your time shrieking away pointlessly on it so another week certainly won't do you any harm. Have at it chum.
You found an entire week to completely waste your time shrieking away pointlessly on it so another week certainly won't do you any harm. Have at it chum.
Farage will do it, he'll just try and get the best opportunity he can, which is not just a debate with Clegg. The Euro's are looming remember, can Tories or Labour really afford to give Farage several hours of airtime during the campaign without them there?
"Last night I spoke to a Lib Dem activist friend in Sheffield Hallam and the conversation turned to the matters of the EU one of the things that struck me, and I haven’t appreciated in the past, one of the reasons why Nick Clegg is a committed and passionate supporter of the European Union, for his mother is from the Netherlands and his wife is Spanish."
I saw this one a few days ago on a different site, so I guess it must be a new LibDem catchline. It's also meaningless, Farage's wife is German and his family is from Germany and France.
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved.
You think Clegg and the lib dems endlessly taunting him about being gutless will go down well with the kipper base? I somehow doubt it. It might be unfortumate for Farage that Clegg is acting as Cammie's human shield but Farage also knows that he's not going to get handed publicity on a plate from anywhere else anytime soon. The floods did not help him. He needs to get back in the public eye fairly soon if he wants to keep the pressure on.
What he should have done is take note of Clegg making these noises a while ago so he could be the one who initiated it and laid down the terms. Too late now though.
Its about as reasonable as Farage wanting a one on one debate with Cameron in the lead up to the General election, without Miliband or Clegg present. It also gives the main enemy, Cameron, the chance to pretend he is neutral on Europe.
So a bad idea in my opinion, but not massively bothered either way
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
If the Scottish flag has been standardised at Pantone 300, does that make it different from the blue of the Union flag? Has the Union flag been officially standardised at 280?
Yes.
Trust the Scots to specify a toxic shade of blue.
PMS 300, when printed on a lithographic press, requires an ink with 13% of the Copper-phthalocyanine blue pigment. Although the ink is tested to comply with leachability of toxic pigments, these tests do not take into account "the greater problem of bioavailability of [toxic] substances once the inks are incinerated as solid waste, disposed of as hazardous printers' waste, or handled as sludge from deinking plants".
Burning a correctly coloured Saltire would therefore expose both Unionists and Nationalists alike to a toxic hazard .
Maintaining the Union would a give cause to a Westminster government overruling the 2003 Holyrood decision to specify PMS 300 and reverting the Saltire blue to the non-toxic shade of blue, PMS 280, used for the component cross of St Andrew in the Union Jack.
There can be no greener argument for maintaining the Union.
I additionally claim the Neil prize for introducing a new and compelling argument into the SIndy referendum debate.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Think it would suit UKIP far better for all four leaders to participate as it would enhance the "they're all the same" image UKIP like to project... Dave, Ed & Nick would all be agreeing with each other about how positive mass immigration has been, which would leave Farage an open goal.
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved. Just debating Clegg makes it look as though (a) they are two fringe parties and (b) Gives Cameron the chance to duck the fact he is a raging Europhile, when UKIP want to turn the heat from his own backbenchers up to 11
I think that's overthinking it. At this stage, at all stages, before during and after the euros and the GE for that matter, NFarage should be looking to gain as much exposure as possible.
Let him get NClegg under his belt and then he can work out his next move.
The nuances of how it positions him (when of course NClegg is DPM) and whether that is good or bad is I think a question for further down the line.
Probably am overthinking it!
It would be better if all three other leaders were present, also as it gives Farage ammo if he isn't allowed on the PM debates... Im not a political strategist, mind you and would quite like to see it !
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
It is alright Uniondivvie - I do not really care one way or the other. I asked the question because I did not know the answer, but I knew someone here would know.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of economics.
Pensioners are not included in either the numerator or denominator of the unemployment rate, meaning the unemployment rate is irrelevant to the dependency ratio.
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
Come on matey, chop, chop, I haven't got all day. I've got some vicious cybernatting to attend to.
A quick defence of the statement 'There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland' will do.
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
It is alright Uniondivvie - I do not really care one way or the other. I asked the question because I did not know the answer, but I knew someone here would know.
Bev.
'There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland' is a statement not a question.
Think it would suit UKIP far better for all four leaders to participate as it would enhance the "they're all the same" image UKIP like to project... Dave, Ed & Nick would all be agreeing with each other about how positive mass immigration has been, which would leave Farage an open goal.
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved. Just debating Clegg makes it look as though (a) they are two fringe parties and (b) Gives Cameron the chance to duck the fact he is a raging Europhile, when UKIP want to turn the heat from his own backbenchers up to 11
I think that's overthinking it. At this stage, at all stages, before during and after the euros and the GE for that matter, NFarage should be looking to gain as much exposure as possible.
Let him get NClegg under his belt and then he can work out his next move.
The nuances of how it positions him (when of course NClegg is DPM) and whether that is good or bad is I think a question for further down the line.
Probably am overthinking it!
It would be better if all three other leaders were present, also as it gives Farage ammo if he isn't allowed on the PM debates... Im not a political strategist, mind you and would quite like to see it !
For sure if the other leaders were present it would be his dream come true but at this point it ain't happening.
The interesting thing is whether this was pre-planned with Cam or whether he just girded his loins and out it came.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
LOL
Just how new a kipper are you? Is this not ringing any bells?
Farage needs all the publicity he can get and it's not as if someone with no MPs and not much to do is suddenly the proud statesman too busy to bother with Clegg. That was Cammie's excuse in case you missed it. Clegg might be a joke but he's a joke in power that has a party with MPs. Granted, a great deal less MPs come 2015, but still a good deal more than zero right now.
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
LOL
Just how new a kipper are you? Is this not ringing any bells?
Farage needs all the publicity he can get and it's not as if someone with no MPs and not much to do is suddenly the proud statesman too busy to bother with Clegg. That was Cammie's excuse in case you missed it. Clegg might be a joke but he's a joke in power that has a party with MPs. Granted, a great deal less MPs come 2015, but still a good deal more than zero right now.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Leave them to it. It still hasn't sunk in that their week of shrieking about Osbrowne and currency was not just utterly pointless but totally counterproductive. They are beyond learning from their mistakes by now. The pitiful scottish tory surgers are just parroting the worst of Lamont's spin now. Their heart isn't even in it anymore.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
I wonder how the clapping seals at Salmond's 'deconstruction' speech on Monday would feel about the extra cost?
I watched that speech. The room was subdued and the applause was surprisingly brief and forced. The staged Q&A was worthless and failed to hide the undercurrent of disappointment and menace.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
What do you suggest is done about it, you being a supporter and all....?
Tear up the pathetic Better Together strategy and start again, as I have been clear about from the start. Whether it is Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives or George Bloody Osborne doing the crap-shovelling makes no odds to me - it's all equally ineffective and unedifying.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
What do you suggest is done about it, you being a supporter and all....?
Tear up the pathetic Better Together strategy and start again, as I have been clear about from the start. Whether it is Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives or George Bloody Osborne doing the crap-shovelling makes no odds to me - it's all equally ineffective and unedifying.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Has anyone mentioned pensions yet in the Scottish Debate?
Has anyone remembered that the State Pension paid out next week is entirely funded by this week's NI contributions? There is no pot of gold to split.
There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland so will pensioners take a cut or will earners be taxed more?
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of Scotland.
UK unemployment rate 7.2% Scotland unemployment rate 7.1%
Evidently PB can never have too much ill-informed inanity on the subject of economics.
Pensioners are not included in either the numerator or denominator of the unemployment rate, meaning the unemployment rate is irrelevant to the dependency ratio.
Wise Socrates.
In the cause of pedantry, I would argue that the denominator of the fraction can contain pensioners.
If my understanding of the ONS's somewhat opaque glossary is correct, then the denominator in the unemployment rate is defined as "the economically active population", with this, in turn, being defined as all those in employment ('employed') plus all those who are 'available for work' (have looked for work in the past four weeks and are available to start work within two weeks, i.e. roughly equal to JSA claimants).
The category of 'employed' will include people aged over 64 who work.
The category of unemployed (available for work but not in work) excludes those over 64 who are not in work as they are assumed to be retired even if they are actively seeking work. This category forms both the numerator and part of the denominator.
I am not sure this point makes any material difference to your general argument and I state it more to seek confirmation that my interpretation of the ONS definitions is correct rather than any desire to refute.
FWIW, Conservativehome is touting Hague as a the meat in the Farage/Clegg Sandwich.
Hague? Now that's an interesting choice. He's done himself no favours of late with the tory Eurosceptics and is considered to have 'gone native' in the FO. If he could win back some brownie points against Farage that would help him and Cammie no end, but how does he do that I wonder?
Speculation doesn't mean it will happen of course.
IDS used to be the man with the Eurosceptic plan in the cabinet. Maybe he'd like a pop?
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
You'll have to pay up £100 to The Union Divvie out of your Ladbrokes winnings too. Are you not worried about funding the Nats at the expense of British bookies ?
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Is that on top of the £32K per head and the £5K per head on mortgages. How will we survive.
We've already established that you're retiring on a DB private pension, and whatever you're able to leech from rUK, so it's a case of "I'm alright Jock!".
How your fellow countrymen will fare is anyone's guess.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
Is that on top of the £32K per head and the £5K per head on mortgages. How will we survive.
Look on the bright side....if you don't Vote 'Yes' we're going to abolish the Barnett Formula, cut benefits and drive the disabled onto the streets (according to the SNP) - so looks like your fooked either way!
On a more serious note, how long did Salmond think it would take his opponents to work out that a 'transaction tax' would have a disproportionately greater impact in Scotland than in rUK, the latter being ten times the size? In any case, many rUK businesses may choose to invoice in sterling anyway, so won't face a 'transaction tax'.....
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
I am shit scared of it - haven't you noticed Sean?
I find your comments as opaque as they are dull
Pleasant.
You're not from round these parts, are you?
I know you and your friend Tim (whoever he may be) are "legendary" posters whom people talked about endlessly in your absence, if that's what you mean.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
I think we should split up Better Together so Labour and the Conservatives don't have to campaign together on the same ticket. It's like having hooligans from Manchester City and Manchester United join forces so they can take on Celtic. What could possibly go wrong?
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
I am shit scared of it - haven't you noticed Sean?
I find your comments as opaque as they are dull
Pleasant.
You're not from round these parts, are you?
I know you and your friend Tim (whoever he may be) are "legendary" posters whom people talked about endlessly in your absence, if that's what you mean.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
You'll have to pay up £100 to The Union Divvie out of your Ladbrokes winnings too. Are you not worried about funding the Nats at the expense of British bookies ?
If you think TLBS is alone then let me disabuse you of that notion immediately. SLAB were far from happy with the "root and branch" reform after 2011 and there were several high(ish) profile SLAB MSPs who had warned of the consequence of relentless negativity even as they watched 2011 unfold. They were deeply unimpressed by little Ed's tactics and they have been less than sanguine about a repeat of that for the Independence referendum. They were right back then and they are right now.
If the fact that Osborne made things worse with the polling didn't get though to those who don't see any problem then this should. The TNS differentials are if anything more important than that. SLAB will need to team up with SCON and the scottish lib dems to pool ALL of their activist resources to stand a chance in the ground campaign. There is no other way. Pretending that this is all SLAB or Labours problem might be comforting but it is very far from the case.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
I am shit scared of it - haven't you noticed Sean?
I find your comments as opaque as they are dull
Pleasant.
You're not from round these parts, are you?
I know you and your friend Tim (whoever he may be) are "legendary" posters whom people talked about endlessly in your absence, if that's what you mean.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
Ed 'Rabbit In the Headlights' Miliband?
On the Indy ref, Ed appears to be hiding down in his burrow dropping little pellets.
But that's perfectly normal for a rabbit (defecating in the burrow so they can eat the things again). It is no indication of mental state. It's how rabbits digest their cellulose - giving the bacteria in the lower intestine a go at it before they eat it again. I imagine it must taste like, oh I don't know, rather beery laver bread? (Which is very nice with bacon I hasten to add.)
The ones you see up top are the second time round, so to speak, and Not (apparently) Nice.
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
LOL
Just how new a kipper are you? Is this not ringing any bells?
Farage needs all the publicity he can get and it's not as if someone with no MPs and not much to do is suddenly the proud statesman too busy to bother with Clegg. That was Cammie's excuse in case you missed it. Clegg might be a joke but he's a joke in power that has a party with MPs. Granted, a great deal less MPs come 2015, but still a good deal more than zero right now.
Oh criticising someone to their face is a different matter from sitting behind a keyboard copying and pasting names all day. Farage made his point to van Rompuy once, clearly and in memorable terms.. constant repetition would have lessened the impact, and people would have ignored him/thought he was a fool.
If he debates Clegg, fine, but I think it would be better to insist on Cameron and Miliband being there also. The "chicken" nonsense can hardly work if Dave and Ed bottle it.
Anyway, Lib Dems taunting UKIP is like Walter the Softy giving it the biggun to Dennis the Menace... come and have a go if you think you hard enough
I think we should split up Better Together so Labour and the Conservatives don't have to campaign together on the same ticket. It's like having hooligans from Manchester City and Manchester United join forces so they can take on Celtic. What could possibly go wrong?
This is what is killing you isn't it - Balls agreeing with GO.
You almost want Yes to win to sate your loathing of GO.
Looks like the 'Alex Tax' is bigger than the 'George Tax'!
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
You'll have to pay up £100 to The Union Divvie out of your Ladbrokes winnings too. Are you not worried about funding the Nats at the expense of British bookies ?
If you think TLBS is alone then let me disabuse you of that notion immediately. SLAB were far from happy with the "root and branch" reform after 2011 and there were several high(ish) profile SLAB MSPs who had warned of the consequence of relentless negativity even as they watched 2011 unfold. They were deeply unimpressed by little Ed's tactics and they have been less than sanguine about a repeat of that for the Independence referendum. They were right back then and they are right now.
If the fact that Osborne made things worse with the polling didn't get though to those who don't see any problem then this should. The TNS differentials are if anything more important than that. SLAB will need to team up with SCON and the scottish lib dems to pool ALL of their activist resources to stand a chance in the ground campaign. There is no other way. Pretending that this is all SLAB or Labours problem might be comforting but it is very far from the case.
And yet Labour and LDs have elections to fight in 2015 (at least under their assumptions) and 2016. Hugging Tories in public, eh?
I think we should split up Better Together so Labour and the Conservatives don't have to campaign together on the same ticket. It's like having hooligans from Manchester City and Manchester United join forces so they can take on Celtic. What could possibly go wrong?
This is what is killing you isn't it - Balls agreeing with GO.
You almost want Yes to win to sate your loathing of GO.
Sad.
No. Wrong again. If I thought having Osborne on the team was strategically advantageous I'd be happy to keep him. But Labour and the Conservatives are arch rivals - not good bedfellows.
I think we should split up Better Together so Labour and the Conservatives don't have to campaign together on the same ticket. It's like having hooligans from Manchester City and Manchester United join forces so they can take on Celtic. What could possibly go wrong?
That's tactical and has already been implemented to some degree by Brown's 'united with labour' as there is deep fear about what being seen as the tories helpers on this could do to SLAB. Rightly so if we take a look at the lib dem meltdown in scotland.
No matter how you divide the resources unless they are deployed by EVERY unionist party (and that means ALL of them) then it will make little difference. Not having a coherent command structure doesn't help of course but right now better together is running on an autopilot of the same scare stories that have been doing the rounds since 2012. Only louder.
I'm certainly not lying when I say I dearly hope better together and the No campaign keep doing the exact same thing from now until september. I've seen the effects or relentless negativity first hand on the ground in 2011.
Good for you Malcolm. I am sure it will be a paradise up there.
The reason I posed the question is because I have been thinking about pensions a lot recently and there is a lot of "facts" and figures floating about, so I was curious about the scottish context when a scottish friend asked me.
Anyway, I have been busy with a lot of stuff and I will very likely be abroad when I retire (thus my recent pension fascination) so I have been preparing and getting everything sorted out.
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
LOL
Just how new a kipper are you? Is this not ringing any bells?
Farage needs all the publicity he can get and it's not as if someone with no MPs and not much to do is suddenly the proud statesman too busy to bother with Clegg. That was Cammie's excuse in case you missed it. Clegg might be a joke but he's a joke in power that has a party with MPs. Granted, a great deal less MPs come 2015, but still a good deal more than zero right now.
Oh criticising someone to their face is a different matter from sitting behind a keyboard copying and pasting names all day.
Is Farage planning to debate Clegg via keyboard? Then what on earth are you talking about?
Anyway, Lib Dems taunting UKIP is like Walter the Softy giving it the biggun to Dennis the Menace... come and have a go if you think you hard enough
Best have a look at some of the kipper members tweets right now then. They clearly want to have a go and seem utterly convinced Farage does too. Those look like real kippers not just some johnny come latelies who jumped on the kipper bandwagon and don't seem to know very much about Farage or the party at all.
I think we should split up Better Together so Labour and the Conservatives don't have to campaign together
You mean like 'Better Apart'?
Yes, that would work......
Well seeing as the two parties are arch rivals who have fought each other year in year out I am just being pragmatic.
No, I think you are completely missing the point.....some things are (or at least should be) above party politics - and if SLAB are having problems with that, or are too busy fighting each other (Falkirk, which I know you prefer to ignore) then someone in Labour needs to get a grip. Who might that be?
Comments
I've made it abundantly clear there is no such thing as a Scottish bugger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval_Jack_of_Russia.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pavillon_royal_de_la_France.svg
If maximum publicity is Clegg and Farage's aim then their course is clear.
Ignore the second rate Blair impersonator and invite the real thing.
Farage Vs Clegg Vs Blair.
After all it is one of Tony's many interests.
Careful with those hands, Tony.
"When against the might of the Nazis Britain stood alone...
Apart from Canada.
Yes..when Britain stood alone with Canada...
And Australia....
Yes, when Britain stood alone with Canada and Australia...
And India.....and so on and so on and so on....
In a way, I hope they do get independence because the entertainment value of watching the wheels drop off Salmond's wagon would be immense.
Personally I think the biggest mistake the SNP ever made was limiting the vote to Scotland. If England was allowed to vote I suspect Scottish independence would be a done deed.
For the two main parties it would be a bit of a nightmare due to having to articulate their more nuanced positions directly rather than trying to woo hardliners through implication. Additionally Dave isn't a very good debater, has a PM's authority to lose and would be loathe to give Ukip any more publicity than absolutely necessary.
Ed I think can be rather a good debater, his more understated conversational style worked well in the Lab leadership debates and he has his best PMQs when they take on a structure more like a debate rather than the search for a big soundbite.
However there are two things that would make it uncomfortable. Firstly because putting Farage in the GE debates would ruin any attempt to frame things as Ed taking on an unfair government on behalf of people as it would turn into the Nigel Farage show and allow Cameron to appear reasonable by comparison, and secondly because Europe's a bit of a non-issue for Labour (as it actually was until recently for most voters if it isn't still to many of those who Ed needs to and can win over). There's not the love of it you find among the Lib Dems nor the genuine distaste of the Tories. In a debate specifically about Europe there's a danger he'd be left with little to say other than that it's a bit daft we're all here doing this, purely because a lot of people distrust the other three of us so much that they're prepared to give Admiral Ackbar a shot.
Farage should go for it and demand the other parties do, then the wag with the chicken suit can move on to Dave (or at least every hack will spend weeks asking every junior minister or Tory backbencher whether he thinks he should join in).
http://youtu.be/Cuv5OlPTtk4
Do you think a wee game of "Eck's Call My Bluff" would cheer him up?
The overall is evenly split, but what do posh Scots vs poor Scots think of Eck's claim that Westminster is bluffing on no currency union?
Net agree Westminster is bluffing;
AB: -8
C1: -2
C2: -1
DE:+7
Looks like Westminster hasn't fooled all those DE finance workers and professionals eh?
He is good at irritating Ulster women too..... (though I have been over here so long that in another 3 years I will have spent more than half my life in England)
Mr (Address Redacted)
State Pension
In reply to your letter regarding your State Pension if Scotland votes for Independence.
If Scotland does become Independent this will have no effect on your State Pension you will continue to receive it just as you do at present.
In answer to your second question, anyone who is in receipt or entitled to claim State Pension can still receive this when they live abroad, If this is an European country or a country where Britain has a reciprocal agreement they will continue to receive annual increases as if they stayed in Great Britain.
If the country does not fall into the above criteria then the rate of State Pension remains payable at the rate it was when they left Britain and no annual increases will be applied until such times they come back to live in Britain permanently.
If you have any further queries don’t hesitate to contact us our details are at the top of this letter.
Yours etc
unquote
"...a Number 10 source insisted Mr Cameron would play no part in the confrontation.
'The Prime Minister is running the country."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2563718/Clegg-challenges-Farage-live-debate-Britain-leaving-EU-Lib-Dems-battle-survival-Brussels-elections.html
For instance, if you are anti-EU you could say that getting out would allow us to be more competitive with the rest of the world, and increase exports by (plucking figure out of the air) 5%. If you are pro-EU, you can easily claim that getting out would cost us 25% of our exports to the EU.
Fiddle with these assumptions according to your biases, and you'll get answers that fit your biases. Any scholarly study to get realistic figures would just reflect the biases of the scholars doing the study.
The anti-EU people may be better off developing a detailed picture of the UK outside the EU: what organisations they will remain part of, which they will leave, and then place on top how they would structure an independent UK. We can then work from that.
Mr Tyndall might be a good person to do that: he seems to have put a lot of thought into it. :-)
There's no pressure from panicking tory Eurosceptics yet as that will likely occur when the kipper vote rises before the May EU elections. Straight afterwards too of course but right now tory rebels are keeping their heads down while trying not to get too upset over the likes of this Cammie is also having Merkel over and he no doubt hopes she will save him from his own backbenchers by throwing him some scraps.
However, it's stretching all the bounds of credibility to pretend that there is not now a sizable hard core of rebel tory MPs who will simply not trust Cammie on this issue. They will be the ones making noises about 'even Clegg having the guts to take on Farage' in private.
If the EU elections are terrible for the tories then that grumbling will become shouting and impossible to ignore as it will be joined by the less strident Eurosceptics.
Farage harnessing tory EU anger will be his priority, so any debate, even if it was just with Clegg, would be focused on winning over yet more soft tory kipper waverers and activists while stil trying to claw in the disaffected labour and lib dem voters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_flag
The polls didn't get better after Osbrowne's incompetent intervention chum, they got worse.
Sorry to break it to you old chap but that's what happened.
Poor old PB tories and right wing chumps. A week long shrieking Osbornegasm is all it takes for them to forget that most of them cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles. While in the real world the polls and the posters on PB who weren't quite so stupid and gullible were telling a very different story.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
Have another week pointlessly shrieking away about currency. It's good entertainment for the rest of us simply because you still don't realise how pointless and futile it is.
UK unemployment rate 7.2%
Scotland unemployment rate 7.1%
"...one of the things that struck me, and I haven’t appreciated in the past, one of the reasons why Nick Clegg is a committed and passionate supporter of the European Union, for his mother is from the Netherlands and his wife is Spanish."
Farage's wife is German, so how does that argument follow?
Pensioners are not included in either the numerator or denominator of the unemployment rate, meaning the unemployment rate is irrelevant to the dependency ratio.
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
On reflection I think Farage should only agree if all parties are involved. Just debating Clegg makes it look as though (a) they are two fringe parties and (b) Gives Cameron the chance to duck the fact he is a raging Europhile, when UKIP want to turn the heat from his own backbenchers up to 11
What he should have done is take note of Clegg making these noises a while ago so he could be the one who initiated it and laid down the terms. Too late now though.
Let him get NClegg under his belt and then he can work out his next move.
The nuances of how it positions him (when of course NClegg is DPM) and whether that is good or bad is I think a question for further down the line.
It's another Victory for Eck!
Labour leader Johann Lamont said: “Transaction costs for the rest of the UK - the so-called George tax - work out at £9 per head for people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
“But if the Scottish Government’s own figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be £75 a head.”
For individuals businesses in Scotland, the estimated £400 million cost of transactions works out at about £1,229 per firm, according to Holyrood’s Financial Scrutiny Unit. This compares with £109 per firm south of the border.
“No wonder they wouldn’t answer the question,” Ms Lamont said today.
“Given this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom - why should Scottish business pay the `Alex Tax?’” Ms Lamont added.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/fmqs-scottish-firms-face-transaction-tax-hike-1-3313697
LOL
"Last night I spoke to a Lib Dem activist friend in Sheffield Hallam and the conversation turned to the matters of the EU one of the things that struck me, and I haven’t appreciated in the past, one of the reasons why Nick Clegg is a committed and passionate supporter of the European Union, for his mother is from the Netherlands and his wife is Spanish."
I saw this one a few days ago on a different site, so I guess it must be a new LibDem catchline. It's also meaningless, Farage's wife is German and his family is from Germany and France.
So a bad idea in my opinion, but not massively bothered either way
I don't think Kippers care much about Lib Dems taunting them. Childish name calling seems to be popular with some people in political debate, but it just makes them look stupid, not to mention being boring and unfunny.
PMS 300, when printed on a lithographic press, requires an ink with 13% of the Copper-phthalocyanine blue pigment. Although the ink is tested to comply with leachability of toxic pigments, these tests do not take into account "the greater problem of bioavailability of [toxic] substances once the inks are incinerated as solid waste, disposed of as hazardous printers' waste, or handled as sludge from deinking plants".
Burning a correctly coloured Saltire would therefore expose both Unionists and Nationalists alike to a toxic hazard .
Maintaining the Union would a give cause to a Westminster government overruling the 2003 Holyrood decision to specify PMS 300 and reverting the Saltire blue to the non-toxic shade of blue, PMS 280, used for the component cross of St Andrew in the Union Jack.
There can be no greener argument for maintaining the Union.
I additionally claim the Neil prize for introducing a new and compelling argument into the SIndy referendum debate.
What do you suggest is done about it, you being a supporter and all....?
It would be better if all three other leaders were present, also as it gives Farage ammo if he isn't allowed on the PM debates... Im not a political strategist, mind you and would quite like to see it !
Bev.
And you think the ratio of pensioners to employed in Scotland is greater or lower than that of the UK?
Come on matey, chop, chop, I haven't got all day. I've got some vicious cybernatting to attend to.
A quick defence of the statement 'There are a lot less earners for each pensioner in Scotland' will do.
The interesting thing is whether this was pre-planned with Cam or whether he just girded his loins and out it came.
Just how new a kipper are you? Is this not ringing any bells?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY
Farage needs all the publicity he can get and it's not as if someone with no MPs and not much to do is suddenly the proud statesman too busy to bother with Clegg. That was Cammie's excuse in case you missed it. Clegg might be a joke but he's a joke in power that has a party with MPs. Granted, a great deal less MPs come 2015, but still a good deal more than zero right now.
Your prize is a new shade of yellow for your boxes.
Bev - the dependency ratio is a lot lower in Scotland than it is in the UK. Is the rUK going to reduce pensions or increase taxes then?
It's "fewer" MPs.
Other than that, re your post, yes absolutely.
It's Labour who should be sh1t scared of a YES vote. Take yer lefty whining to Ed Miliband, Esq, Dartmouth Park, NW.
I am shit scared of it. Haven't you noticed Sean??
About as clear as mud if you don;t have alternative to replace it.
This referendum suddenly has an air of inevitability because all mainstream parties are sh8t scared of offending their English bases.
And that includes the party you support.
In the cause of pedantry, I would argue that the denominator of the fraction can contain pensioners.
If my understanding of the ONS's somewhat opaque glossary is correct, then the denominator in the unemployment rate is defined as "the economically active population", with this, in turn, being defined as all those in employment ('employed') plus all those who are 'available for work' (have looked for work in the past four weeks and are available to start work within two weeks, i.e. roughly equal to JSA claimants).
The category of 'employed' will include people aged over 64 who work.
The category of unemployed (available for work but not in work) excludes those over 64 who are not in work as they are assumed to be retired even if they are actively seeking work. This category forms both the numerator and part of the denominator.
I am not sure this point makes any material difference to your general argument and I state it more to seek confirmation that my interpretation of the ONS definitions is correct rather than any desire to refute.
Speculation doesn't mean it will happen of course.
IDS used to be the man with the Eurosceptic plan in the cabinet. Maybe he'd like a pop?
I am shit scared of it. Haven't you noticed Sean??
Why is your man quivering under his duvet then ?
Pounded into submission
It has not taken much to reveal the folly in Scottish nationalists’ plans
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21596940-it-has-not-taken-much-reveal-folly-scottish-nationalists-plans-pounded-submission
Alex Salmond’s big problem
The battle for Scotland has come to turn on a dispute over currency—which unionists are winning
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21596935-battle-scotland-has-come-turn-dispute-over-currencywhich-unionists-are
How your fellow countrymen will fare is anyone's guess.
Bev.
On a more serious note, how long did Salmond think it would take his opponents to work out that a 'transaction tax' would have a disproportionately greater impact in Scotland than in rUK, the latter being ten times the size? In any case, many rUK businesses may choose to invoice in sterling anyway, so won't face a 'transaction tax'.....
Change the record
If the fact that Osborne made things worse with the polling didn't get though to those who don't see any problem then this should. The TNS differentials are if anything more important than that. SLAB will need to team up with SCON and the scottish lib dems to pool ALL of their activist resources to stand a chance in the ground campaign. There is no other way. Pretending that this is all SLAB or Labours problem might be comforting but it is very far from the case.
Yes, that would work......
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100026708/france-is-looking-straight-down-the-barrel-of-a-deflation-shock/
The ones you see up top are the second time round, so to speak, and Not (apparently) Nice.
If he debates Clegg, fine, but I think it would be better to insist on Cameron and Miliband being there also. The "chicken" nonsense can hardly work if Dave and Ed bottle it.
Anyway, Lib Dems taunting UKIP is like Walter the Softy giving it the biggun to Dennis the Menace... come and have a go if you think you hard enough
You almost want Yes to win to sate your loathing of GO.
Sad.
No matter how you divide the resources unless they are deployed by EVERY unionist party (and that means ALL of them) then it will make little difference. Not having a coherent command structure doesn't help of course but right now better together is running on an autopilot of the same scare stories that have been doing the rounds since 2012. Only louder.
I'm certainly not lying when I say I dearly hope better together and the No campaign keep doing the exact same thing from now until september. I've seen the effects or relentless negativity first hand on the ground in 2011.
The reason I posed the question is because I have been thinking about pensions a lot recently and there is a lot of "facts" and figures floating about, so I was curious about the scottish context when a scottish friend asked me.
Anyway, I have been busy with a lot of stuff and I will very likely be abroad when I retire (thus my recent pension fascination) so I have been preparing and getting everything sorted out.
Bev.