Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon – politicalbetting.com

System

Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon – politicalbetting.com

Who would have thought some 3000+ year old media advice would be still relevant today? The Israel-Hamas conflict  has put reporting centre stage. The antagonism of both belligerents  and their supporters towards each other is increasingly forcing the media to choose a side. For some it is quite simple Al Jazeera and GB News have already chosen, but for those seeking to maintain balance it is getting harder. The BBC so far has had a bad war, its efforts to remain impartial meeting raised eyebrows; this from a combination of poor reporting from the frontline and editorial chaos at home.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

First.

ydoethur

I thought for a moment we were talking about the cricket again.

ydoethur

Good header, but one point. There will not be 'many truths' but 'many lies.'

I was thinking of writing a thread header drawing parallels between Samson and modern Israeli policy. After all, he destroyed all the Gazans after being kidnapped and blinded but was himself killed in the process. An apt metaphor for Netanyahu's actions.

Selebian

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

Pagan2

The whole middle east has been a problem as long as I have lived and even before I was born. It is a family spat best thing to do is leave them to it as are most family arguments

Malmesbury

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

Alanbrooke

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

I think this will be a bitter war and the 60% will find themselves forced in to decisions against their better judgment.

rcs1000

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

kyf_100

I find it quite possible to disapprove of US foreign policy while still calling 9/11 what it was, a disgusting and horrific terrorist attack. Quite why so many people are unable to do the same for Israel is quite illuminating.

rcs1000

Pagan2 said:

The whole middle east has been a problem as long as I have lived and even before I was born. It is a family spat best thing to do is leave them to it as are most family arguments

Bruno solves the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1SvETSZlvo

Pagan2

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The fact is though most people don't seem to appreciate this as a civil war. Jews and arabs are pretty much the same race. As are the sunnis, shia's, ishmaelians and sufi's. Really what they are doing is arguing who's sky fairy is bigger and beat up their sky fairy.

As a person of faith I have a sky fairy of my own however she doesn't instruct me to go out and beat up all those others with different sky fairies

Nigelb

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The third rule, of course, being never intervene in a civil war, unless you possess absolutely overwhelming force, and have a pretty clear idea of what result you want from it.
We don't, and we don't.

Benpointer

rcs1000 said:

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

The Israelis seem to be doing their best to help Hamas achieve its goal.

Leon

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

RochdalePioneers

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

The whole middle east has been a problem as long as I have lived and even before I was born. It is a family spat best thing to do is leave them to it as are most family arguments

Bruno solves the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1SvETSZlvo

How SBC manages to (a) do this stuff with a straight face and (b) manages to do this without getting murdered is beyond me. Though I know he genuinely came close to the latter at least twice.

RochdalePioneers

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The fact is though most people don't seem to appreciate this as a civil war. Jews and arabs are pretty much the same race. As are the sunnis, shia's, ishmaelians and sufi's. Really what they are doing is arguing who's sky fairy is bigger and beat up their sky fairy.

As a person of faith I have a sky fairy of my own however she doesn't instruct me to go out and beat up all those others with different sky fairies

The comedy being that there is only one sky fairy.

Malmesbury

A

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The third rule, of course, being never intervene in a civil war, unless you possess absolutely overwhelming force, and have a pretty clear idea of what result you want from it.
We don't, and we don't.

No the third rule, is that there are certainties in civil wars.

- Death
- Destruction
- Misery
- Sand in your tea.

DecrepiterJohnL

Online Safety Bill: divisive internet rules become law
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67221691

Pagan2

Benpointer said:

rcs1000 said:

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

The Israelis seem to be doing their best to help Hamas achieve its goal.

This is why we need to build a wall around the middle east...nothing in or out for a couple of centuries then come back and deal with the winners. The middle east has always been a cinder pot. Let them burn themselves while the rest of us ignore them

Pagan2

RochdalePioneers said:

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The fact is though most people don't seem to appreciate this as a civil war. Jews and arabs are pretty much the same race. As are the sunnis, shia's, ishmaelians and sufi's. Really what they are doing is arguing who's sky fairy is bigger and beat up their sky fairy.

As a person of faith I have a sky fairy of my own however she doesn't instruct me to go out and beat up all those others with different sky fairies

The comedy being that there is only one sky fairy.

Well yes but I don't need to rub peoples nose in the fact its mine.

DecrepiterJohnL

rcs1000 said:

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

Yes to the last part but on the former, Iran seemed almost as surprised as Israel.

Leon

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

Malmesbury

Pagan2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The fact is though most people don't seem to appreciate this as a civil war. Jews and arabs are pretty much the same race. As are the sunnis, shia's, ishmaelians and sufi's. Really what they are doing is arguing who's sky fairy is bigger and beat up their sky fairy.

As a person of faith I have a sky fairy of my own however she doesn't instruct me to go out and beat up all those others with different sky fairies

The comedy being that there is only one sky fairy.

Well yes but I don't need to rub peoples nose in the fact its mine.

I worship older, better gods.

Pagan2

Malmesbury said:

Pagan2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

The first rule of civil wars (which this is a form of), is that they aren't civil.

The second rule is that the complete bastards are easy to identify. Whoever is holding the trigger end of the gun at that moment.

In the Balkans War in the 1990s, I recall people being surprised that the oppressed turned into the oppressors microseconds after they got the upper hand in some locality or other.

One of the most intelligent interventions I can recall was how the Americans backed the anti-Serb forces. The moment that said forces started to commit the inevitable atrocities, the Americans (who controlled the supply lines and air support) cut them off, so the offenders were slaughtered in Serb counter attacks. This had the happy result of keeping the war crimes to a minimum and getting those inclined to commit them to slough off this vale of tears..

The fact is though most people don't seem to appreciate this as a civil war. Jews and arabs are pretty much the same race. As are the sunnis, shia's, ishmaelians and sufi's. Really what they are doing is arguing who's sky fairy is bigger and beat up their sky fairy.

As a person of faith I have a sky fairy of my own however she doesn't instruct me to go out and beat up all those others with different sky fairies

The comedy being that there is only one sky fairy.

Well yes but I don't need to rub peoples nose in the fact its mine.

I worship older, better gods.

me too

carnforth

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

isam

Seven years ago today

https://x.com/hillaryclinton/status/791263939015376902?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

RochdalePioneers

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

ydoethur

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

Pagan2

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

Because where ever you travel you will still be you

(hmm edit as i suspect some might see than as an insult which wasnt what I meant. Travel broadens the mind is what I meant but doesn't change your personality. If you aren't a happy person it will assuage it for a week or two but in the end you will get bored of the new place and be you again. I think, sorry to say, part of Leon's wanderlust he looks to find a spot that fulfils him. Fulfilment though comes from within not without)

Malmesbury

rcs1000 said:

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

Indeed - and it makes sense that it was (for them) an act of desperation.

The oil age is ending. The Saudis and others have realised that their world wide influence is starting to shrink and the they need to get their pensions sorted. And that if Israel continues as the advanced economy in the area, then it's them that has the long term problem.

Stuartinromford

rcs1000 said:

What a really excellent article, to which I would just add one more thing: the timing was not accidental. Hamas (Iran) is desperate to avoid the continued normalisation of relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

Two ways that peace comes about.

One is total victory/total defeat (which isn't going to happen, is it?)

The other is when enough people on both sides conclude they prefer peace to ongoing war, even if the price is making concessions. I wonder how big that slice of opinion is on each side.

Part of the problem with the Israel/Palestine situation is the number of people on both sides who prefer ongoing war to making concessions. The other, nastier problem is those who prefer ongoing war as a good in itself, becuase of the status and security it gives them. To an extent, Hamas needs Netanyahu and Netanyahu needs Hamas.

ydoethur

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

noneoftheabove

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Leon

Off topic, the Israeli authorities are now slowly releasing the worst of the images from October 7

WARNING: HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION COMING

One of them from the festival (I obvs won’t link) shows a young woman who has very very clearly been brutally raped - I won’t go into further details - then it appears the terrorists murdered her possibly by burning just her head. Her roasted face is locked in a terrible rictus scream

I imagine Israelis are seeing these pics. And sharing them. They must be. The truth is actually considerably worse than the original 40 beheaded babies story

The vengeful fury when the Israelis go into Gaza will be nightmarishly bloody. We can expect this mighty violence to spread far beyond the Levant

That is to say: brace

carnforth

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Leon

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

noneoftheabove

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

spudgfsh

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

At least if you're copying from a single source you are copying from a published author (someone who seemingly knows the subject). copying from Wikipedia is copying from enthusiastic amateurs

isam

Funny response to Harriet Harman’s deflection of Rachel Reeves plagiarism

ydoethur

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Leon

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

I agree. This is trivial

I was waiting to be outraged but the examples cited are pretty feeble. The odd identical sentence about the exact same thing - that happens. Some barely digested wiki paragraphs

It’s persuaded me not to buy the book (lol) but it’s barely a misdemeanour let alone a crime

carnforth

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

Leon

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

JosiasJessop

Leon said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

I agree. This is trivial

I was waiting to be outraged but the examples cited are pretty feeble. The odd identical sentence about the exact same thing - that happens. Some barely digested wiki paragraphs

It’s persuaded me not to buy the book (lol) but it’s barely a misdemeanour let alone a crime

It's hilarious (hopefully whatever your political persuasion), as minor transgressions often are.

And it will follow her around. If she is chancellor in a Starmer government, you know the shadow leader will be tempted tp stand up in response to a budget and say: "It's good to see the honourable lady has done as she is want to do, and plagiarised our policies..." or something similar.

Most politicians have them. It's nowhere near a career-breaker, but it is funny.

Malmesbury

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Several people have used a plagiarism checker to generate references - copy and pasta your work together and it turns it into a referenced work. One I saw was quite clever and could find primary sources from Wikipedia articles.

Why not look cool and have 30 pages of primary sources at the back of your book?

ydoethur

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

ydoethur

Malmesbury said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Several people have used a plagiarism checker to generate references - copy and pasta your work together and it turns it into a referenced work. One I saw was quite clever and could find primary sources from Wikipedia articles.

Why not look cool and have 30 pages of primary sources at the back of your book?

The problem with people doing copy and pasta is they don't give the sauce.

MJW

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

There's a basic problem here though - every one wants an end to senseless deaths - but the problem that Hamas and, previously, Israeli hardliners have become adept at exploiting is the terrorist's veto. By that I mean the fact that as long as there is a significant minority who do want genocidal violence, then it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to do the kind of things that would start the ball rolling on peace and live side by side. As long as there are 50,000+ armed young men in Gaza belonging to an organisation whose charter is only indistinguishable from Nazism in its religious allusions, and who share those beliefs, there's going to be some kind of security arrangements that Palestinians justifiably find abhorrent. That's previously been exploited by both sides' hardliners to create misery for Palestinians. But now sadly puts the Israelis in an impossible position - the only way some kind of peace and security can be achieved is in operationally destroying Hamas - as a ceasefire just leaves them intact to plan the next outrage when Hezbollah might also have a crack, but Hamas will ensure the human cost of efforts to get rid of them is huge. There are really no good options here - and I fear those who go a bit John Lennon about it all are deluding themselves. Which is why everything ends up full of horror. There maybe no good outcome that doesn't involve either the human cost of militarily removing Hamas, or the future human cost of appeasement that strengthens both Hamas and its allies in dictatorial regimes who will have absolutely no hesitation to wipe out Israel and who have already caused huge bloodshed across the region, far more than the Israelis have ever managed.

Leon

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

noneoftheabove

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

SouthamObserver

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

I used to love my solo work travels. There's a lot to be said for spending a few evenings in entirely anonymous hotel bars, where no-one knows or cares anything about you, reading a good book and drinking a few beers. It provides perspective. We are nothing.

OnlyLivingBoy

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

We visited Knossos earlier in the year and I was a bit torn on it. I know the right answer is that the restoration and reconstruction work by the British dude is a travesty, but I thought that it probably did help to bring the palace alive a bit - without it, it would have just been a load of foundations. The sheer size of the site is impressive anyway. I was surprised at how interesting our kids found it, too.

Leon

MJW said:

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

There's a basic problem here though - every one wants an end to senseless deaths - but the problem that Hamas and, previously, Israeli hardliners have become adept at exploiting is the terrorist's veto. By that I mean the fact that as long as there is a significant minority who do want genocidal violence, then it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to do the kind of things that would start the ball rolling on peace and live side by side. As long as there are 50,000+ armed young men in Gaza belonging to an organisation whose charter is only indistinguishable from Nazism in its religious allusions, and who share those beliefs, there's going to be some kind of security arrangements that Palestinians justifiably find abhorrent. That's previously been exploited by both sides' hardliners to create misery for Palestinians. But now sadly puts the Israelis in an impossible position - the only way some kind of peace and security can be achieved is in operationally destroying Hamas - as a ceasefire just leaves them intact to plan the next outrage when Hezbollah might also have a crack, but Hamas will ensure the human cost of efforts to get rid of them is huge. There are really no good options here - and I fear those who go a bit John Lennon about it all are deluding themselves. Which is why everything ends up full of horror. There maybe no good outcome that doesn't involve either the human cost of militarily removing Hamas, or the future human cost of appeasement that strengthens both Hamas and its allies in dictatorial regimes who will have absolutely no hesitation to wipe out Israel and who have already caused huge bloodshed across the region, far more than the Israelis have ever managed.

You write articulately and persuasively

But please learn to paragraph! It’s not hard

Just do a paragraph every three or four sentences. That’s all it takes

ydoethur

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

Might split it over two days. Monday and Tuesday (my flight's not till Wednesday).

To be fair, might also come back. So far, so impressed. Amazing place and everyone's really friendly.

Apart from these fecking bikes...

Malmesbury

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

It's the carelessness that gets to me. Plagiarism checks are automated. Run one, just in case you have remembered and copied something accidentally. If you have copied lots, turn them into references and keep on trucking.

Do that and your book looks all academic and posh.

Sean_F

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Spinalonga is well worth it. I was there, on 2nd October. The Eastern scenery is very bleak and beautiful.

Leon

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

Might split it over two days. Monday and Tuesday (my flight's not till Wednesday).

To be fair, might also come back. So far, so impressed. Amazing place and everyone's really friendly.

Apart from these fecking bikes...

Perfect time of year as well. I just checked your weather - same as here. 26C and sunny - ideal for almost everything and the sea is still warm enough to swim

In the future this is surely when people will go the southern Med - in spring and autumn. Summer is becoming insanely and offputtingly hot (and it’s way more crowded)

algarkirk

edit

noneoftheabove

MJW said:

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

There's a basic problem here though - every one wants an end to senseless deaths - but the problem that Hamas and, previously, Israeli hardliners have become adept at exploiting is the terrorist's veto. By that I mean the fact that as long as there is a significant minority who do want genocidal violence, then it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to do the kind of things that would start the ball rolling on peace and live side by side. As long as there are 50,000+ armed young men in Gaza belonging to an organisation whose charter is only indistinguishable from Nazism in its religious allusions, and who share those beliefs, there's going to be some kind of security arrangements that Palestinians justifiably find abhorrent. That's previously been exploited by both sides' hardliners to create misery for Palestinians. But now sadly puts the Israelis in an impossible position - the only way some kind of peace and security can be achieved is in operationally destroying Hamas - as a ceasefire just leaves them intact to plan the next outrage when Hezbollah might also have a crack, but Hamas will ensure the human cost of efforts to get rid of them is huge. There are really no good options here - and I fear those who go a bit John Lennon about it all are deluding themselves. Which is why everything ends up full of horror. There maybe no good outcome that doesn't involve either the human cost of militarily removing Hamas, or the future human cost of appeasement that strengthens both Hamas and its allies in dictatorial regimes who will have absolutely no hesitation to wipe out Israel and who have already caused huge bloodshed across the region, far more than the Israelis have ever managed.

Realistically there is no achievable path to peace that both sides can choose to take. When peace arrives it will be through a series of unexpected events and fortunate timing and individual leaders being at the right place at the right time rather than a logically planned climbdown.

Having said that there are actions either side can take that make peace even further away, such as the Hamas attack.

NickPalmer

Leon said:

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I've been a couple of times but did avoid Knossos on similar advice. I don't normally notice my surroundings (I'd probably be perfectly happy living in Milton Keynes on the same street for 30 years) but in Crete you really can't help it - that comnbination of mountains and sea everywhere you look astonishes me every time.

In the meantime, happy anniversary to Only Living Boy, and thank you both for the reflections. That sort of exchange gives PB a flavour that few blogs achieve.

viewcode

I appreciate that the perception filter/somebody else's problem field is still in effect around Boris Johnson, but by all the angels above how can we discuss plagiarism without mentioning him. Y'know. Fat scruffy bloke. Used to be PM. That one.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boris+johnson+plagiarism

ydoethur

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

Might split it over two days. Monday and Tuesday (my flight's not till Wednesday).

To be fair, might also come back. So far, so impressed. Amazing place and everyone's really friendly.

Apart from these fecking bikes...

Perfect time of year as well. I just checked your weather - same as here. 26C and sunny - ideal for almost everything and the sea is still warm enough to swim

In the future this is surely when people will go the southern Med - in spring and autumn. Summer is becoming insanely and offputtingly hot (and it’s way more crowded)

It's always when I would go to the Med. I *like* the British Isles and their temperate climate in summer. The last time I went to the Med in summer I was at a conference in Yad Vashem and resolved, never again. Since then, if they want me in summer it's on Zoom.

It did actually rain today, not much, but otherwise the temperature is really nice and and I've been for a swim. It's absolutely perfect. I'm feeling all warm and smug at my judgement so far.

Hope your trip to the interior of Sicily is as blest.

Sean_F

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

Might split it over two days. Monday and Tuesday (my flight's not till Wednesday).

To be fair, might also come back. So far, so impressed. Amazing place and everyone's really friendly.

Apart from these fecking bikes...

Perfect time of year as well. I just checked your weather - same as here. 26C and sunny - ideal for almost everything and the sea is still warm enough to swim

In the future this is surely when people will go the southern Med - in spring and autumn. Summer is becoming insanely and offputtingly hot (and it’s way more crowded)

We went on a trip to Richtis Gorge, which is very impressive. As an added bonus, two young Frenchwomen were standing under the waterfall, showing off their bums.

Very pretty is the drive from Agios Nikolaos to Mirtos, via Kritsas, which has most impressive Byzantine frescoes in the church.

noneoftheabove

Malmesbury said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

It's the carelessness that gets to me. Plagiarism checks are automated. Run one, just in case you have remembered and copied something accidentally. If you have copied lots, turn them into references and keep on trucking.

Do that and your book looks all academic and posh.

But why should it "have to" be academic?

Jim_Miller

On the previous thread: I posted a comment on the North Carolina redistricting that adds some historical context. I should warn some commenters that, if they are looking for more evidence that all Republicans are evil, they won't find it there.

The comment includes a link to some entertaining maps.

(My apologies for being slow to put it up, but I like to eat breakfast at the usual time here.)

dixiedean

...

RochdalePioneers

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

Taz

Leon said:

Off topic, the Israeli authorities are now slowly releasing the worst of the images from October 7

WARNING: HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION COMING

One of them from the festival (I obvs won’t link) shows a young woman who has very very clearly been brutally raped - I won’t go into further details - then it appears the terrorists murdered her possibly by burning just her head. Her roasted face is locked in a terrible rictus scream

I imagine Israelis are seeing these pics. And sharing them. They must be. The truth is actually considerably worse than the original 40 beheaded babies story

The vengeful fury when the Israelis go into Gaza will be nightmarishly bloody. We can expect this mighty violence to spread far beyond the Levant

That is to say: brace

Both sides will do it and there will be more and more gruesome pictures to come.

IT cannot really do any good to either cause I would think, only inflame tensions.

I saw a picture of a man in Gaza running down a street holding a carrier bag within which, allegedly, was the body (or the bits of the body) of his young child.

As you say, brace.

Leon

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

jamesdoyle

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

I used to love my solo work travels. There's a lot to be said for spending a few evenings in entirely anonymous hotel bars, where no-one knows or cares anything about you, reading a good book and drinking a few beers. It provides perspective. We are nothing.

Just had four days away by myself, in Oxford. Apart from shop and restaurant staff, I spoke to one person - I was just coming away from Tolkien's grave, and she was obviously looking for it. Did a lot of reading, and thinking. Lovely break.

Stocky

Leon said:

MJW said:

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

There's a basic problem here though - every one wants an end to senseless deaths - but the problem that Hamas and, previously, Israeli hardliners have become adept at exploiting is the terrorist's veto. By that I mean the fact that as long as there is a significant minority who do want genocidal violence, then it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to do the kind of things that would start the ball rolling on peace and live side by side. As long as there are 50,000+ armed young men in Gaza belonging to an organisation whose charter is only indistinguishable from Nazism in its religious allusions, and who share those beliefs, there's going to be some kind of security arrangements that Palestinians justifiably find abhorrent. That's previously been exploited by both sides' hardliners to create misery for Palestinians. But now sadly puts the Israelis in an impossible position - the only way some kind of peace and security can be achieved is in operationally destroying Hamas - as a ceasefire just leaves them intact to plan the next outrage when Hezbollah might also have a crack, but Hamas will ensure the human cost of efforts to get rid of them is huge. There are really no good options here - and I fear those who go a bit John Lennon about it all are deluding themselves. Which is why everything ends up full of horror. There maybe no good outcome that doesn't involve either the human cost of militarily removing Hamas, or the future human cost of appeasement that strengthens both Hamas and its allies in dictatorial regimes who will have absolutely no hesitation to wipe out Israel and who have already caused huge bloodshed across the region, far more than the Israelis have ever managed.

You write articulately and persuasively

But please learn to paragraph! It’s not hard

Just do a paragraph every three or four sentences. That’s all it takes

Full stops aren't hard either.

Anabobazina

I look back fondly on the days when PB bantz centred on man eats burger / man eats bacon sandwich.

Yesterday, seems so very far away.

Pagan2

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

While what you are saying is true you neglect the company side of this. I work from home. My company has a policy written into my contract that I cant work from abroad apart from a limited number of days. Reason is payroll doesnt want to deal with many tax regimes so if I was for example living in spain that would be a pain for them

Stocky

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

Is Sri Lanka back on the tourist map, Leon?

Pagan2

Anabobazina said:

I look back fondly on the days when PB bantz centred on man eats burger / man eats bacon sandwich.

Yesterday, seems so very far away.

At least we know yesterday existed we are less sure of tomorrow doing so

Nigelb

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

We visited Knossos earlier in the year and I was a bit torn on it. I know the right answer is that the restoration and reconstruction work by the British dude is a travesty, but I thought that it probably did help to bring the palace alive a bit - without it, it would have just been a load of foundations. The sheer size of the site is impressive anyway. I was surprised at how interesting our kids found it, too.

Visited it many decades ago,
Along with the scale I remeber being most impressed by the extensive terracotta plumbing system.

Leon

Taz said:

Leon said:

Off topic, the Israeli authorities are now slowly releasing the worst of the images from October 7

WARNING: HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION COMING

One of them from the festival (I obvs won’t link) shows a young woman who has very very clearly been brutally raped - I won’t go into further details - then it appears the terrorists murdered her possibly by burning just her head. Her roasted face is locked in a terrible rictus scream

I imagine Israelis are seeing these pics. And sharing them. They must be. The truth is actually considerably worse than the original 40 beheaded babies story

The vengeful fury when the Israelis go into Gaza will be nightmarishly bloody. We can expect this mighty violence to spread far beyond the Levant

That is to say: brace

Both sides will do it and there will be more and more gruesome pictures to come.

IT cannot really do any good to either cause I would think, only inflame tensions.

I saw a picture of a man in Gaza running down a street holding a carrier bag within which, allegedly, was the body (or the bits of the body) of his young child.

As you say, brace.

Yes I’ve seen truly awful images out of Gaza. But maybe none match the close and personal torture aspect of the October 7 atrocities. But I’m not trying to make some league table of evil

Either way, what a nightmare. I have the feeling the bloodlust, on both sides, will now only be sated by a war to the end. The Gazans are spoiling for a fight to finally end their imprisonment, the Israelis are eager for a fight to defend their very existence

The collision is coming. It will reverberate

noneoftheabove

Leon said:

MJW said:

Selebian said:

I'm in the 60%

I'll not "stand with Israel" because of the things they have done and will do in Gaza (and indeed the West Bank). Neither do I stand with Gaza and Hamas.

I stand with those on both sides who wish for no more hatred and senseless death. Sadly, from the outside, they seem a minority, but perhaps it is not so.

There's a basic problem here though - every one wants an end to senseless deaths - but the problem that Hamas and, previously, Israeli hardliners have become adept at exploiting is the terrorist's veto. By that I mean the fact that as long as there is a significant minority who do want genocidal violence, then it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to do the kind of things that would start the ball rolling on peace and live side by side. As long as there are 50,000+ armed young men in Gaza belonging to an organisation whose charter is only indistinguishable from Nazism in its religious allusions, and who share those beliefs, there's going to be some kind of security arrangements that Palestinians justifiably find abhorrent. That's previously been exploited by both sides' hardliners to create misery for Palestinians. But now sadly puts the Israelis in an impossible position - the only way some kind of peace and security can be achieved is in operationally destroying Hamas - as a ceasefire just leaves them intact to plan the next outrage when Hezbollah might also have a crack, but Hamas will ensure the human cost of efforts to get rid of them is huge. There are really no good options here - and I fear those who go a bit John Lennon about it all are deluding themselves. Which is why everything ends up full of horror. There maybe no good outcome that doesn't involve either the human cost of militarily removing Hamas, or the future human cost of appeasement that strengthens both Hamas and its allies in dictatorial regimes who will have absolutely no hesitation to wipe out Israel and who have already caused huge bloodshed across the region, far more than the Israelis have ever managed.

You write articulately and persuasively

But please learn to paragraph! It’s not hard

Just do a paragraph every three or four sentences. That’s all it takes

Sounds like copying someone elses writing technique to me.....dangerous stuff.

Anabobazina

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

On topic and fpt for @OnlyLivingBoy

“I'm sure many people in a long term relationship would struggle to sustain a two hour conversation with their partner - I think I would. What is there to talk about for that long that one doesn't already know your partner's views on, and they yours?
I've been thinking about my relationship with my wife today as it's our 21st wedding anniversary - and tomorrow we will have been "going out" for 29 years. I can't say what our secret is - I wouldn't hold us up as some kind of ideal couple, anyway. I think we both love and like and respect each other, we are both monogamous by nature, we have similar senses of humour and we find each other attractive - me with better reason!


SNIP

I suspect we both also don't like the idea of being alone. By contrast, you seem to be quite happy with your own company and not that monogamous by nature, so perhaps a long relationship isn't something you really want? I would certainly recommend it, I can't imagine life without my wife but I would guess it's not for everyone.”

++++

Good for you. Seriously. I often envy my happily married friends but then I often feel the opposite of envy too (why isn’t there a precise word for that?)

I am definitely not the monogamous domestic type. I generally feel trapped. My short but very happy marriage was a startling anomaly - she’s quite an unusual person - and so am I

I hope I die on the road. In some tiny town in a remote part of Baluchistan, or lost in a ravine in Svalberg, or of an overdose in a backstreet in Valparaiso, or by driving over a cliff in Assynt. Dying alone and unnoticed will be totally fine with me. We all die alone in the end

I’ll probably expire in a nursing home in Hastings but a man can dream

Wouldn't 'supercilious' fit the bill?

Cheers from Heraklion
And I honestly don't know how I didn't kill any motorcyclists on my minor tour of Knossos and Phaistos. They are all fucking mental.

What did you think of Knossos?

Tbh it disappointed me. Over restored and over painted. Weirdly like legoland

Crete has many wonders but Knossos is not one of them for me

I agree entirely. Also it was bloody heaving. Interesting, but could have been much more so.

I really liked Phaistos though. That's an undiscovered (or at least, less discovered) gem for anyone going to Crete. Not just the ruins but the scenery is quite magnificent.

Apparently even at the time the over-restoration of Knossos was controversial. Damn shame

Agree on phaistos

Have you made it out to the east and spinalonga? If the weather is fair it’s a magnificent bleak sunburned bit of coast - very atmospheric and far fewer tourists

I've pencilled that in for Monday.

I was aiming to have a long walk around Chania tomorrow. I don't want to be driving on weekends(!) so I thought I'd explore Heraklion properly, as there's loads to do. That left Monday for exploring the East as it's a long drive away and I don't want to do it twice if I can help it.

Sensible plan. It is a long way

The leper island itself is definitely worth a visit. Sad and beautiful and lonely and a nice little jaunt for a morning

There are luxe hotels around there which will do a great lunch (and not too pricey)

Might split it over two days. Monday and Tuesday (my flight's not till Wednesday).

To be fair, might also come back. So far, so impressed. Amazing place and everyone's really friendly.

Apart from these fecking bikes...

Perfect time of year as well. I just checked your weather - same as here. 26C and sunny - ideal for almost everything and the sea is still warm enough to swim

In the future this is surely when people will go the southern Med - in spring and autumn. Summer is becoming insanely and offputtingly hot (and it’s way more crowded)

Yes, I had an idyllic trip to the Majorcan interior via Palma one October. 24c every day and abundant sunshine. As I grow older, I like heat less and less. There really is no need for temperatures over 28c.

P.S. Palma is an absolutely fab city with a great food scene for PBers who haven’t been, and only about 15 mins from the airport to the centre.

viewcode

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

Vanlife does not work. You have to park it and it is not easy getting a place to do it. Damp is almost unavoidable. If you live in a van permanently you have no address and hence no GP. If you live in a van temporarily you have to buy the thing and if it's good enough to sleep in it's too expensive to justify the expense. Plus you are incredibly vulnerable if somebody breaks in. Don't do it.

RochdalePioneers

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

The only problem with not having a commute is that the working day can become quite long, with no space at the start / end of the day for deconstruction through music / podcasts. Not that I am complaining - having my own office a short walk away from my bed is waaaay better than having a desk in an office. And as its 2023 if I need to have a water cooler chat I can call people on Teams or WhatsApp.

Pagan2

viewcode said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

Vanlife does not work. You have to park it and it is not easy getting a place to do it. Damp is almost unavoidable. If you live in a van permanently you have no address and hence no GP. If you live in a van temporarily you have to buy the thing and if it's good enough to sleep in it's too expensive to justify the expense. Plus you are incredibly vulnerable if somebody breaks in. Don't do it.

I live in a house I have no gp

Jim_Miller

Surprise! And a nasty one at that. The September 9th issue of The Economist has a cover story titled "The New Middle East". The subtitle is: "More money and less mayhem. For now."

Nothing in the story suggests the Hamas terrorist attack may be about to happen. (Except possibly that last sentence in the subitle.)

So, how did The Economist miss the approaching storm? Perhaps the publication, for understandable reasons, pays too much attention to making money, and too little attention to deep hatreds.

Perhaps also because Iran and Hamas saw they were losing out, with it becoming more likely that the Saudis and Israelis would soon sign a peace agreement -- and both would make their peoples even better off.

RochdalePioneers

viewcode said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

Vanlife does not work. You have to park it and it is not easy getting a place to do it. Damp is almost unavoidable. If you live in a van permanently you have no address and hence no GP. If you live in a van temporarily you have to buy the thing and if it's good enough to sleep in it's too expensive to justify the expense. Plus you are incredibly vulnerable if somebody breaks in. Don't do it.

Hopefully wifey doesn't actually bin me off to put it to the test. Would be registered *somewhere* for tax / services obviously...

kinabalu

viewcode said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

Vanlife does not work. You have to park it and it is not easy getting a place to do it. Damp is almost unavoidable. If you live in a van permanently you have no address and hence no GP. If you live in a van temporarily you have to buy the thing and if it's good enough to sleep in it's too expensive to justify the expense. Plus you are incredibly vulnerable if somebody breaks in. Don't do it.

But on the upside you might meet Alan Bennett.

Burgessian

In the previous thread someone referenced the "geopolitical" commentator Peter Zeihan. I'd never heard of him but had a look at this Youtube interview he gave a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4w0g-apV2o&ab_channel=RealVision

Trenchant opinions on China (doomed to collapse due to demographics), the Ukraine war (existential threat), Israel - Hamas (a side show), and the next presidential election (a Biden landslide). All in a smiley, "aw shucks" kinda way. He's pretty persuasive. Worth a look.

spudgfsh

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

The only problem with not having a commute is that the working day can become quite long, with no space at the start / end of the day for deconstruction through music / podcasts. Not that I am complaining - having my own office a short walk away from my bed is waaaay better than having a desk in an office. And as its 2023 if I need to have a water cooler chat I can call people on Teams or WhatsApp.

that's the problem I have with it though. you don't accidentally bump into someone on teams all these conversations are deliberate. building team spirit is harder if the people never meet physically. I don't have the option (and worked in an office all through Covid too).

I also wouldn't get any exercise too as I commute to work on my bike.

algarkirk

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

It's the carelessness that gets to me. Plagiarism checks are automated. Run one, just in case you have remembered and copied something accidentally. If you have copied lots, turn them into references and keep on trucking.

Do that and your book looks all academic and posh.

But why should it "have to" be academic?

It doesn't have to be, but many academic books, including standard text books that sell well, essentially collate and order vast quantities of material from several hundred sources and render it accessible to readers/students etc. These books make serious money (loads more than the scholars who provide the ammunition) BUT it is only remotely honest (and useful) if you carefully attribute everything in the footnotes.

Non-academic popular books (eg random rubbish by politicians who need it on their CVs, like the one in question) are different. Everyone knows that they are derivative rubbish, but the one thing you can't do is directly pinch stuff at length from anyone and not say so. You don't need footnotes, but you do need: "As Hilary Benn put it so well..." Or "I owe much of this chapter to Fergus Kelly's ground breaking work on the medieval Irish law on bee keeping". Etc.

The book will still be unreadable rubbish, but will be honest and honourable.

Alanbrooke

Tory MP arrested on rape charge.

Another by election methinks.

Pagan2

spudgfsh said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

If Mrs RP ever decides to get shut of me, I will buy a van and basically spend my time on the road. Why be stuck in a pokey expensive rental when you can travel?

When I quit my job and started tutoring, I had this half-formed idea of doing more travel to warmer places in winter while taking my laptop so I could still work.

Hasn't quite worked out as although I'm earning an absolute mint at the moment I have to be on site for much of it, but maybe next year.

I'm doing better and better with my consulting gig (now into my 4th year) and could be based anywhere. Moving to rural Aberdeenshire is already "anywhere" compared to the usual places someone at my level in this industry would be based.

So why not push that further again. Have seen a few vanlife channels on YouTube and a few seem to have done Tesla. With my channel also rocketing forward in terms of views and revenues there could be some crossover thing I could do. Hoovie seem's to have survived the transition from Hoovie's Garage to getting the boot...

A prescient article on all this from the Speccie

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-work-from-home-when-you-can-work-from-paradise/

Quite a few people now working from home, will slowly realise that same home could be a lot warmer, sunnier and cheaper - and they can move it every few months

The only problem with not having a commute is that the working day can become quite long, with no space at the start / end of the day for deconstruction through music / podcasts. Not that I am complaining - having my own office a short walk away from my bed is waaaay better than having a desk in an office. And as its 2023 if I need to have a water cooler chat I can call people on Teams or WhatsApp.

that's the problem I have with it though. you don't accidentally bump into someone on teams all these conversations are deliberate. building team spirit is harder if the people never meet physically. I don't have the option (and worked in an office all through Covid too).

I also wouldn't get any exercise too as I commute to work on my bike.

Most of my team are based in glasgow, I am in devon our support people are in sheffield. Our team gets into a call every day even if we aren't peer programming and just chats away in the background all day. Mostly not even work talk it works for us and builds team spirit. I have been in the office 3 times in 2 years and one of those was my first days to pick up my new work laptop. In that time we have also taken on an apprentice and he is now getting an integral part of us and has learnt a lot from us.

isam

viewcode said:

I appreciate that the perception filter/somebody else's problem field is still in effect around Boris Johnson, but by all the angels above how can we discuss plagiarism without mentioning him. Y'know. Fat scruffy bloke. Used to be PM. That one.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boris+johnson+plagiarism

Wonder what Harriet Harman et al had to say about that

FeersumEnjineeya

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

I used to love my solo work travels. There's a lot to be said for spending a few evenings in entirely anonymous hotel bars, where no-one knows or cares anything about you, reading a good book and drinking a few beers. It provides perspective. We are nothing.

In my younger days I quite enjoyed travels for work. I wouldn't say I loved them, though, and I was always glad to get home.

But nowadays I wouldn't enjoy living out of a suitcase one little bit. I enjoy my home comforts, and I love living with my family and close to friends in an area that I know and appreciate. Thankfully, we all have very different ideas of what constitutes a decent life, and I am very content with mine. I'm happy to have the likes of Leon travel the world and report back so that I don't to.

noneoftheabove

algarkirk said:

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

It's the carelessness that gets to me. Plagiarism checks are automated. Run one, just in case you have remembered and copied something accidentally. If you have copied lots, turn them into references and keep on trucking.

Do that and your book looks all academic and posh.

But why should it "have to" be academic?

It doesn't have to be, but many academic books, including standard text books that sell well, essentially collate and order vast quantities of material from several hundred sources and render it accessible to readers/students etc. These books make serious money (loads more than the scholars who provide the ammunition) BUT it is only remotely honest (and useful) if you carefully attribute everything in the footnotes.

Non-academic popular books (eg random rubbish by politicians who need it on their CVs, like the one in question) are different. Everyone knows that they are derivative rubbish, but the one thing you can't do is directly pinch stuff at length from anyone and not say so. You don't need footnotes, but you do need: "As Hilary Benn put it so well..." Or "I owe much of this chapter to Fergus Kelly's ground breaking work on the medieval Irish law on bee keeping". Etc.

The book will still be unreadable rubbish, but will be honest and honourable.

Fine with academic side.

Disagree on non academic, non fiction, it is up to the writer and the audience, unless copyright is materially broken. Nor is a paragraph at length.

Luckyguy1983

viewcode said:

I appreciate that the perception filter/somebody else's problem field is still in effect around Boris Johnson, but by all the angels above how can we discuss plagiarism without mentioning him. Y'know. Fat scruffy bloke. Used to be PM. That one.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boris+johnson+plagiarism

You know it's all muscle, right?

Pagan2

FeersumEnjineeya said:

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

There are also advantages to the solo, wandering life

Cheers from Ortigia

I used to love my solo work travels. There's a lot to be said for spending a few evenings in entirely anonymous hotel bars, where no-one knows or cares anything about you, reading a good book and drinking a few beers. It provides perspective. We are nothing.

In my younger days I quite enjoyed travels for work. I wouldn't say I loved them, though, and I was always glad to get home.

But nowadays I wouldn't enjoy living out of a suitcase one little bit. I enjoy my home comforts, and I love living with my family and close to friends in an area that I know and appreciate. Thankfully, we all have very different ideas of what constitutes a decent life, and I am very content with mine. I'm happy to have the likes of Leon travel the world and report back so that I don't to.

Which is pretty much backing up what I said earlier, fulfilment is from within not from your surroundings. Happy with yourself it doesn't matter really where you are.

tlg86

Alanbrooke said:

Tory MP arrested on rape charge.

Another by election methinks.

Arrested by Surrey Police is interesting.

Stark_Dawning

Alanbrooke said:

Tory MP arrested on rape charge.

Another by election methinks.

Being questioned by Surrey Police. Is that relevant?

MightyAlex

algarkirk said:

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

noneoftheabove said:

carnforth said:

Reeves cops to it, but says it was an accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67225980

Its a book, with a paragraph or few copied from wikipedia. Am I alone in not seeing an issue? It is neither a student gaining an advantage nor passing off someone elses work as her own (imo at least but maybe others think its substantial enough to be so).

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Copying from it is plagiarising its authors, even if they are many and anonymous.

Not anywhere near as bad as copying many paragraphs from a single similar book, I'll grant you that.

Isnt the whole point of wikipedia that people copy from it? Do they care? Do the people reading the book care?

No; No; Perhaps.

Not what we would like from a politician though. And it's not just Wikipedia:

"Another paragraph about international aid under New Labour is very similar to a foreword written by Hilary Benn, who is now the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, on the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change website.

Only a few words in the paragraph in the book differ from Mr Benn's foreword."

(BBC)

I literally couldn't care less. I can see the issue in academia but not in wider publishing unless they are infringing the copyright of someone who cares in a substantial manner.

It's the carelessness that gets to me. Plagiarism checks are automated. Run one, just in case you have remembered and copied something accidentally. If you have copied lots, turn them into references and keep on trucking.

Do that and your book looks all academic and posh.

But why should it "have to" be academic?

It doesn't have to be, but many academic books, including standard text books that sell well, essentially collate and order vast quantities of material from several hundred sources and render it accessible to readers/students etc. These books make serious money (loads more than the scholars who provide the ammunition) BUT it is only remotely honest (and useful) if you carefully attribute everything in the footnotes.

Non-academic popular books (eg random rubbish by politicians who need it on their CVs, like the one in question) are different. Everyone knows that they are derivative rubbish, but the one thing you can't do is directly pinch stuff at length from anyone and not say so. You don't need footnotes, but you do need: "As Hilary Benn put it so well..." Or "I owe much of this chapter to Fergus Kelly's ground breaking work on the medieval Irish law on bee keeping". Etc.

The book will still be unreadable rubbish, but will be honest and honourable.

Yes. Its simply poor character to steal whether it matters or not.

Maybe Labour should have Johnson's razor: If Johnson did it, don't.

DavidL

tlg86 said:

Alanbrooke said:

Tory MP arrested on rape charge.

Another by election methinks.

Arrested by Surrey Police is interesting.

Has the England cricket team been arrested for impersonation yet?

spudgfsh

Alanbrooke said:

Tory MP arrested on rape charge.

Another by election methinks.

at this rate there's going to be a GE by default as most of the Tory MPs will have given up their seats.