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Is this the best way to deal with two massive elections at the same time? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited October 2023 in General
Is this the best way to deal with two massive elections at the same time? – politicalbetting.com

In 1964 there were less than three weeks between the UK general & US presidential elections. During that time Khrushchev was overthrown in the USSR & China produced its first atomic bomb. The world endured.

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    Oh
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,561
    Second like the Tories, if they are lucky
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    Can't see desperately looking for something to turn up Rishi will care too much about the above and go early
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,848
    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    I think the point about "inexperienced ministers" is a joke. If that was a concern we might as well not have an election and a change of government, inevitably there will be inexperienced ministers. I'm not sure the present "experienced" lot are that good in a crisis.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    Agreed the Myanmar lot are fairly irrelevant. I forgot El-Sisi: he’d be tier 2.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    Agreed the Myanmar lot are fairly irrelevant. I forgot El-Sisi: he’d be tier 2.
    Why is Xi in tier 2? Surely his actions in Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Tibet plus his rampaging personal criminality should qualify him for Tier 1?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,457
    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606
    edited October 2023

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    No, it’s not blocked, or at least, it’s working for me.

    Israel’s version of Hamas.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,457

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    More likely to be silliness with Twitter.

    Do you think that that post, and your comment, is rather telling? That you use one video (source uncertain) as 'evidence' of Israeli policy?

    Yet you are silent when Hamas wants to kill all Jews, and its leader says that millions of deaths are worth their victory?

    Why do you have such a disconnect?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    I have to say on topic that I feel it makes not one jot of difference the timing of the next GE. Tories look like they will be lucky to get 220 seats whenever it's held.

    I reckon SKSICIPM

    Well it worked last time!!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,457
    ydoethur said:

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    No, it’s not blocked, or at least, it’s working for me.

    Israel’s version of Hamas.
    Not working for me.

    Lovely Twitter... ;)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,848

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he
    is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    So nothing to do with the Israeli government’s actual policies then?

    I hate to bring up what you went through years ago, but I really don’t understand why you don’t understand the evil that is Islamist terrorism as practiced by Hamas and others
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,715
    Any of the sports pages used the headline "SO NEAR...YET SAFFER...."?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    More likely to be silliness with Twitter.

    Do you think that that post, and your comment, is rather telling? That you use one video (source uncertain) as 'evidence' of Israeli policy?

    Yet you are silent when Hamas wants to kill all Jews, and its leader says that millions of deaths are worth their victory?

    Why do you have such a disconnect?
    Not really evidence I agree.It was tongue in cheek and an example that hatred is not always one sided.

    Am going to try not to mention Palestine anymore today as emotions get raised on both sides.

    Let's talk CPI and GE2024
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606
    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,571
    edited October 2023

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606

    Any of the sports pages used the headline "SO NEAR...YET SAFFER...."?

    We weren’t bloody near in the cricket.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    Any of the sports pages used the headline "SO NEAR...YET SAFFER...."?

    I missed the game was watching the Blades continuing the bad run whilst sipping some rather nice vino blanco. Was it a fair result or were England unlucky?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    Agreed the Myanmar lot are fairly irrelevant. I forgot El-Sisi: he’d be tier 2.
    Why is Xi in tier 2? Surely his actions in Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Tibet plus his rampaging personal criminality should qualify him for Tier 1?
    He’s not (yet) a complete global pariah, but I grant you he has the potential. I’d have had Putin in tier 2 until 2014.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    ydoethur said:

    Any of the sports pages used the headline "SO NEAR...YET SAFFER...."?

    We weren’t bloody near in the cricket.
    Oh yes I saw that I thought we were talking Rugby. Sounds like that was very close.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138
    ydoethur said:

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    No, it’s not blocked, or at least, it’s working for me.

    Israel’s version of Hamas.
    Blocked for me too - here in Spain!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    ydoethur said:

    Any of the sports pages used the headline "SO NEAR...YET SAFFER...."?

    We weren’t bloody near in the cricket.
    Oh yes I saw that I thought we were talking Rugby. Sounds like that was very close.
    According to the commentators on Sky bowling first in that heat was an incredibly bad decision.
    And good morning everybody; hope it’s drying up in Scotland. It’s quite pleasant here blue skies and white clouds.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."
    It exists for me. Perhaps it's because I am in Spain?

    It's a fat bloke wrapped in an Israeli flag shouting at the top of his voice "We will kill you all one by one fucking Muslins" whilst crossing his throat as if to behead those he is shouting at. No idea where its filmed.
    Actually to be precise it's "We will kill you all. All. All of you one by one fucking Muslims" please tell me it's not blocked in the UK
    No, it’s not blocked, or at least, it’s working for me.

    Israel’s version of Hamas.
    Blocked for me too - here in Spain!
    Really I am currently in Malaga and saw it there.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138
    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    The bigger worry is just how many Labour members and MPs have broadly similar views....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Mrs C. and I have just had £300 each towards fuel bills. I’m not entirely sure why that shouldn’t be included in taxed income.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,571

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Well I wouldn't. I've been screwed by the FAS pension that denies any increase on service before 1997 so I got 1Pc on that. There are millions like me being screwed
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Mrs C. and I have just had £300 each towards fuel bills. I’m not entirely sure why that shouldn’t be included in taxed income.
    Yes when you take into account all the energy support we are getting it's completely untenable to expect 8.5% on top of that. Me and the wife got the £150 top up for disabled people too.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Well I wouldn't. I've been screwed by the FAS pension that denies any increase on service before 1997 so I got 1Pc on that. There are millions like me being screwed
    I don't know what that is is it easy to explain?

    Also surely 6.7 means you are keeping up with inflation and haven't you received any of the energy top ups as well?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Mrs C. and I have just had £300 each towards fuel bills. I’m not entirely sure why that shouldn’t be included in taxed income.
    Because that would be unpopular with the Tory core vote.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    edited October 2023
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: no real read on the race in terms of cunning betting insights. Suspicion is Verstappen to win with Norris and Hamilton hard to separate for runner-up.

    Leclerc's loss of time to Hamilton in the sprint bodes ill for the Ferrari.

    Edited extra bit: will likely back a Briton to be winner each way, if I can decide who to go for...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Very interesting thread @TSE

    I totally agree about January. It would be political suicide.

    December is vaguely possible but the Brexit election of 2019 is best seen as a one-off.

    There's no real point going for November. It holds next-to-no advantages over October and many disadvantages. The clocks have gone back. It's a hiatus from autumn to Christmas and it's a bloody miserable month: for most people the worst of the year.

    So October or September. The latter is an interesting idea. I'm warming to it.

    Or Spring but I think it less likely.

    September / October 2024 60%
    Spring 2024 25%

    November 2024 5%
    December 2024 8%
    January 2025 2%
  • What the Kurds need is for some Jews to settle on their land
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,247
    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    That’s what the police may well conclude having investigated them.
  • ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Well I wouldn't. I've been screwed by the FAS pension that denies any increase on service before 1997 so I got 1Pc on that. There are millions like me being screwed
    I don't know what that is is it easy to explain?

    Also surely 6.7 means you are keeping up with inflation and haven't you received any of the energy top ups as well?
    Part of the problem is that the stats are contaminated with all sorts of one-offs, so it's really hard to tell what's actually going on.

    Example. Energy costs are lower (yay!) but most people aren't getting a Truss bung this year (right and proper but boo!) so my DD is pretty much the same and a lot higher than before the Ukraine war started. How does that appear in inflation stats and the "cash at the end of the month" test?

    Another example. The reason public sector strikes were solved was often a one-off bonus. How many of the (no doubt grateful) recipients of those realise that they're heading for less money next year than this year?

    And that's before we get onto the cost of accommodation which varies from nearly zero if you have a paid-off mortgage to more than most people can imagine if you don't.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Betting Post

    F1: backed Hamilton at 6.5 to be winner each way.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/10/usa-pre-race-2023.html
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,584

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Well I wouldn't. I've been screwed by the FAS pension that denies any increase on service before 1997 so I got 1Pc on that. There are millions like me being screwed
    I don't know what that is is it easy to explain?

    Also surely 6.7 means you are keeping up with inflation and haven't you received any of the energy top ups as well?
    Part of the problem is that the stats are contaminated with all sorts of one-offs, so it's really hard to tell what's actually going on.

    Example. Energy costs are lower (yay!) but most people aren't getting a Truss bung this year (right and proper but boo!) so my DD is pretty much the same and a lot higher than before the Ukraine war started. How does that appear in inflation stats and the "cash at the end of the month" test?

    Another example. The reason public sector strikes were solved was often a one-off bonus. How many of the (no doubt grateful) recipients of those realise that they're heading for less money next year than this year?

    And that's before we get onto the cost of accommodation which varies from nearly zero if you have a paid-off mortgage to more than most people can imagine if you don't.
    Very good post.

    I agree with all of it.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,212
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    Let the anti-Semites speak, especially politicians, and we can all call them out as the racists they are. Shut them up, and they can pass by under the radar, most of the population remaining unaware of their views.

    Save the prosecutions for more overt actions, such as those directly supporting the actions of a proscribed terrorist group by name, or fundraising on their behalf.
    Yeah on balance I would agree with this, both sides should be able to speak what they think. The idea that all hate can be removed is actually quite dystopian and totalitarian because of the level of social control it implies. The problem is basically that what is defined as 'unacceptable hate sppech' is going to always be politicised. I have been observing this for a long time and seen too many free passes given for 'acceptable' causes. I realised this about 5 years ago listening to a folk singer glorify terrorism with people in the audience clapping and cheering along. The idea we can 'crack down on hate' is absurd because it ultimately just means different things to different people.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    will be 8.5% from earnings assuming they don't fiddle it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544

    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    The treatment of the Rohingya is a lot worse than most bad stuff that happens in the world. At best they have rendered millions stateless, at worst it amounts to genocide. The Myanmar junta are really a bad lot - although sadly their treatment of the Rohingya is popular with many in the country.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,212

    I don't really see this. The outgoing US administration stays in place until the changeover in January. Also, we're not that important - it's not like we take over as temporary global hegemon when the US is ill-deposed. This sounds to me like the chronic self-importance of the British deep state at work again. Or perhaps they're trying to push Sunak into a spring poll because they're just as sick of him as the rest of us.

    I think their point is about resource deployment in the security services regarding global attempts at election interference - not so much about an inflated sense of self importance, although that may play a part.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,364
    I watched the rugby last night, and it can be lonely at prop. I played amateur rugby every week in that position until I was 48, but I never was short of a game. No matter how unathletic I was.

    In the professional game, you can be stomped for all to see, especially on a slipperly pitch. You can go backwards or go down. And the referee has no sympathy - if he even knows what's going on. You can be penalised for doing your best and breaking no law.

    At least, they earn a lot now.



  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    “only an idiot would call an election that would see a general election campaign that would straddle Christmas”

    January election nailed on then?

    I’ve got a clear memory of Major hanging on in 1979, hoping that ‘something would turn up!’ In February of that year I was among those charged with getting Nurse Prescribing off the ground, and being told that it had to be done by May, because the Minister wanted it as a Conservative ‘success’.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,606
    edited October 2023

    “only an idiot would call an election that would see a general election campaign that would straddle Christmas”

    January election nailed on then?

    I’ve got a clear memory of Major hanging on in 1979, hoping that ‘something would turn up!’ In February of that year I was among those charged with getting Nurse Prescribing off the ground, and being told that it had to be done by May, because the Minister wanted it as a Conservative ‘success’.
    Sorry OKC but I'm thinking it wasn't that clear...

    Edit - assume it was typing issues? Feel a bit mean now for saying it...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,306
    darkage said:

    I don't really see this. The outgoing US administration stays in place until the changeover in January. Also, we're not that important - it's not like we take over as temporary global hegemon when the US is ill-deposed. This sounds to me like the chronic self-importance of the British deep state at work again. Or perhaps they're trying to push Sunak into a spring poll because they're just as sick of him as the rest of us.

    I think their point is about resource deployment in the security services regarding global attempts at election interference - not so much about an inflated sense of self importance, although that may play a part.
    The fact that “Whitehall Sources” are briefing the papers, on stuff that would be very much classified in detail, might be indicative of the senior CS trying to bounce the PM into an early election.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    The treatment of the Rohingya is a lot worse than most bad stuff that happens in the world. At best they have rendered millions stateless, at worst it amounts to genocide. The Myanmar junta are really a bad lot - although sadly their treatment of the Rohingya is popular with many in the country.
    It’s not only the Rohingya either, who are suffering from the Myanmar government’s hatred. The Karen and other groups in the east of the country, while not suffering to quite the same extent, are being treated appallingly badly. Many are in camps along the Thai border.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040
    edited October 2023
    ydoethur said:

    “only an idiot would call an election that would see a general election campaign that would straddle Christmas”

    January election nailed on then?

    I’ve got a clear memory of Major hanging on in 1979, hoping that ‘something would turn up!’ In February of that year I was among those charged with getting Nurse Prescribing off the ground, and being told that it had to be done by May, because the Minister wanted it as a Conservative ‘success’.
    Sorry OKC but I'm thinking it wasn't that clear...

    Edit - assume it was typing issues? Feel a bit mean now for saying it...
    Quite, it was typing. Thanks for pointing it out.
    Don’t feel mean!

    In the back of my mind was the thought of Callaghan aiming to ‘hang on’ until October that year, and being forced into an election by the failure of a N. Irish MP to arrive in time for a confidence vote.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,631
    Why not January 2025? It will be the last possible moment.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,647
    Victoria Derbyshire is much better at this than Kueenesberg.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,766
    edited October 2023
    These "security concerns" seem to be nonsense, and the added danger from having two elections at once is probably non-existent. They remind me of the idiotic reasons used by the securocrats under Blair to justify 90 day detention without charge. Why is it more difficult to launch cyber attacks on two elections happening at different times than at once? If anything, dividing the attention of Russian hackers or whatever might make them each slightly more secure. And in any case, the US election campaign will last for most of next year. A May/June election campaign would clash with 11 Republican primaries, for example. And Western countries are exposed whether a security threat arises during an election campaign or not - it's not as if GCHQ or M16 staff don't work once one is called.

    We have an over-mighty security state much too used to getting its own way without proper scrutiny. We shouldn't hold our democratic process hostage to security considerations, without a lot more specific and detailed information about much more credible additional threats.
  • biggles said:

    Why not January 2025? It will be the last possible moment.

    Campaigning over Xmas?
  • One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,997
    A new UK PM moves in the day after the election if they win a majority, a new US President isn't inaugrated until January so I don't see a big problem.

  • TimS said:

    FPT:

    It’s pretty clear Netanyahu is a wrongun. In the tiering of global bad guy national leaders I’d place him in tier 3.

    Tier 1: Putin, Khamenei, Kim Yong Un, Taliban, Hamas leadership, coup leaders in various Sahel countries

    Tier 2: Xi, Kagame, Myanmar junta, Lukashenko, MBS, Maduro

    Tier 3: Bibi, Erdogan, Modi, Orban, Trump

    Tier 4: all the various semi-populist somewhat corrupt but not so dangerous leaders around the world (I’d have put Johnson here if he were still PM)

    Tier 5: normal democratic politicians including ones we like or don’t like, from Truss to Rishi to Starmer to Macron to Biden.

    The philosophy is broadly sound but you can quibble with the details.

    I’d put Myanmar lower - they have limited reach outside their borders and although the treatment of the Rohingya is horrific it’s not much worse than many others have done. I’d also put Lukashenko lower - he’s a marginal player without much capability or agency beyond what Putin gives him.

    More me Erdpgan is the closest to Netenyahu
    The treatment of the Rohingya is a lot worse than most bad stuff that happens in the world. At best they have rendered millions stateless, at worst it amounts to genocide. The Myanmar junta are really a bad lot - although sadly their treatment of the Rohingya is popular with many in the country.
    It’s not only the Rohingya either, who are suffering from the Myanmar government’s hatred. The Karen and other groups in the east of the country, while not suffering to quite the same extent, are being treated appallingly badly. Many are in camps along the Thai border.
    @Mexicanpete will tell you he's never heard of the Karen tribe.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,221
    A pertinent story about the potential of AI to manipulate TV news. This is only going to get worse


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-will-destroy-tv-news/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    Hodges: barring a miracle it is over for the tories.


    DAN HODGES: If Tories are being trounced in their safest citadels, all Rishi can do is sit down... and pray
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12657739/DAN-HODGES-Tories-trounced-Rishi-sit-pray.html
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,631
    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    100% agree. See also the Bradley Lowery teeshirt, Hillsborough/Munich tee shirts, etc.

    These things reflect different levels of someone being a cock, and should be called out: but it pains me that we now live in a world where they are unlawful.

    Potentially different, of course, if you direct these things at a specific person or people, but even then I’m uneasy about abuse (however vile, abusive or racist) being a criminal matter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,452

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    Such litotes, such delicacy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,997

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    20 to 25 Tory MPs is not enough for a VONC and given 168 Tory MPs didn't endorse Sunak even when he was elected Tory leader last autumn is nowhere near enough to suggest his position is under threat
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,596
    Barnesian said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding the situation in the middle east I think it is too complicated to reduce to a good v evil situation, and that taking a side in general terms (ie Israel v Palestine) is not a good move. This is a 'twas ever thus' situation. Ultimately the only position I can think of to take on it is to try and work out towards a solution that leads to peace, not a particularly original one, but one that still has merit.

    I've just watched "The Human Factor" on Netflix.

    It is a documentary covering 30-years of diplomatic effort to secure peace in the Middle East, using interviews with key figures.

    It reminded me of how disastrous was the assassination of Rabin and how poisonous is Netanyahu.

    https://www.newonnetflix.info/info/81555474
    Netanyahu is as malign a influence on the Middle East as Hamas is.

    A hard man who has failed to keep his people safe from a group his govt helped prop up.

    This should precipitate his political demise.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    HYUFD said:

    A new UK PM moves in the day after the election if they win a majority, a new US President isn't inaugrated until January so I don't see a big problem.

    I think the point is more that two of the 'five eyes' will be totally wrapped up in election campaigning throughout Oct/Nov if both go to the polls.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,631

    I think the "clashing election" thing is bollocks.

    It’s the typical case of one media outlet alleging a price of advice was given, with no other context, and then al the rest uncritically assuming it’s a fact.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,571
    edited October 2023

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    These are the usual "bastards".... John Major had his "bastards"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    edited October 2023

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    They are just totally crackers now. The first shark has been jumped and they are on the second one.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,704
    OT
    Just watching the Partygate Channel 4 docudrama on youtube. I know it's dramatised for TV etc, but oh my God...
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,596
    Tres said:

    Victoria Derbyshire is much better at this than Kueenesberg.

    She’s been a refreshing change. Probing questions well put and allowing people to speak.

    The Tories must be scraping the barrel putting Jenrick up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    I don't really see this. The outgoing US administration stays in place until the changeover in January. Also, we're not that important - it's not like we take over as temporary global hegemon when the US is ill-deposed. This sounds to me like the chronic self-importance of the British deep state at work again. Or perhaps they're trying to push Sunak into a spring poll because they're just as sick of him as the rest of us.

    I think their point is about resource deployment in the security services regarding global attempts at election interference - not so much about an inflated sense of self importance, although that may play a part.
    The fact that “Whitehall Sources” are briefing the papers, on stuff that would be very much classified in detail, might be indicative of the senior CS trying to bounce the PM into an early election.
    Agreed. The security issues are completely different in each country and will be dealt with by their own resources. In the US they have the problem of someone who has no respect for the democratic system and simply will not accept any result other than a win. In this country the main concern is probably the manufacturers of Mogadon who may well suffer dangerous falls in sales.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,450
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Victoria Derbyshire is much better at this than Kueenesberg.

    She’s been a refreshing change. Probing questions well put and allowing people to speak.

    The Tories must be scraping the barrel putting Jenrick up.
    he lost this week's round of Rock Paper Scissors
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,221
    The bells ring out across old Catania!

    Temporally drowning out the mopeds. And the gunshots
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Bumrah once again showing England, and a few other teams in fairness, what a bowling attack should look like.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Leon said:

    The bells ring out across old Catania!

    Temporally drowning out the mopeds. And the gunshots

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,097

    ydoethur said:

    June/July for me. CPI base effects are key. That is, the rise in CPI inflation in the July CPI published August 2024 due to the previous fall in energy prices disappearing from the CPI means that a favourable economic window will slam shut by August.

    Has September CPI been released yet? Pensions and benefits usually linked.

    If not are there any forecasts?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,same rate as in August.
    Thanks 6.7 it is then
    If the Govt doesn't give pensioners 8.5 pc they will get completely and utterly stuffed at the GE. I have written to my MP about the weasel words that are emanating about NHS bonuses being factored out. Why only NHS ones one
    wonders.
    It couldn't be because the Govt are bunch of deceitful scumbags who need turfing out at the first opportunity. Once trust is lost ,its impossible to regain. I have no faith in this Govt.
    I don't think they should give us 8.5.

    The triple lock is completely unaffordable when Public Services are on their knees.

    I would be happy with 6.7
    Well I wouldn't. I've been screwed by the FAS pension that denies any increase on service before 1997 so I got 1Pc on that. There are millions like me being screwed
    I don't know what that is is it easy to explain?

    Also surely 6.7 means you are keeping up with inflation and haven't you received any of the energy top ups as well?
    Part of the problem is that the stats are contaminated with all sorts of one-offs, so it's really hard to tell what's actually going on.

    Example. Energy costs are lower (yay!) but most people aren't getting a Truss bung this year (right and proper but boo!) so my DD is pretty much the same and a lot higher than before the Ukraine war started. How does that appear in inflation stats and the "cash at the end of the month" test?

    Another example. The reason public sector strikes were solved was often a one-off bonus. How many of the (no doubt grateful) recipients of those realise that they're heading for less money next year than this year?

    And that's before we get onto the cost of accommodation which varies from nearly zero if you have a paid-off mortgage to more than most people can imagine if you don't.
    I think your final point on accommodation gets to the heart of the problem. Talking about OAP benefits for a second (so all people from the same age group who were old enough to buy comparatively affordable housing), there are people in this group in at least three different situations, which are broadly:

    A) Bought years ago, paid their mortgage regularly until it was paid off. Now live in accommodation which is essentially free.

    B) Have lived in subsidised social housing most of their working lives, and continue to do so, often paying rents which are a fraction of the market rent.

    C) Are living in rented accommodation at current rares (although there's a huge variation there - rents for new tenants are up by about 50% in the last 3 years, but a lot of existing tennants aren't paying anything like that).

    If you pay pensions/benefits to everyone at a level where those in 'C' aren't in grinding poverty, those in 'A' are going to be doing pretty well out of it, as they probably get twice what they need to live on. This will also cost the government a fortune.

    If you means test according and pay according to need, why would anybody work hard and pay their mortgage off? Or if you are in that position, why not gift the house to your kids then rent it back - that way you can pass it on IHT free and you get full whack pension.

    I'm not sure what the answer is (other than building houses/restricting immigration until there are more than enough houses to go round), but the spectacular growth in rental costs is rapidly making it a bigger issue at the moment.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,194
    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    As you say, this raises many questions. Williamson has some unpleasant views, but are they criminal? People here have advocated ethnic cleansing: should their views be investigated by the police too?

    Is he calling for a genocide? (And I mean that in the sense of can you prove that in a court of law?) He is not calling for anyone to be murdered or expelled, but for a different geopolitical structure. If someone said “Northern Ireland has forfeited any right to exist” and campaigned for Irish unification, that wouldn’t be genocidal, would it?

    Even if he is calling for genocide, is that illegal under UK law? The Terrorism Act 2000 forbids expressing support for terrorism. That’s presumably what he’s being investigated under. But the Terrorism Act says nothing about calling for genocide being a crime. The question is presumably whether his comment constitutes supporting terrorism. But it’s legal to support an outcome that terrorists also support. It’s legal to call for Basque independence or Irish unification, for example.
  • HYUFD said:

    A new UK PM moves in the day after the election if they win a majority, a new US President isn't inaugrated until January so I don't see a big problem.

    I think the point is more that two of the 'five eyes' will be totally wrapped up in election campaigning throughout Oct/Nov if both go to the polls.

    Shouldn't it really be ten eyes? Or is it to reflect all the stuff that happens that we turn a blind eye to?

    Anyway, say New Zealand and Canada were having elections at the same time, no-one would even notice. So its that its the US election that is the issue, and its because Trump has a decent chance to move it to an Erdogan style "democracy", and that risk is similar whenever we hold our election.
  • OT
    Just watching the Partygate Channel 4 docudrama on youtube. I know it's dramatised for TV etc, but oh my God...

    It obviously heightened the reality for effect but I didn’t see anyone challenging the essential facts after it was first broadcast. What I still don’t understand is why partygate fines were a fraction of the average of the thousands handed out let alone the really punitive ones.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Fishing said:

    These "security concerns" seem to be nonsense, and the added danger from having two elections at once is probably non-existent. They remind me of the idiotic reasons used by the securocrats under Blair to justify 90 day detention without charge. Why is it more difficult to launch cyber attacks on two elections happening at different times than at once? If anything, dividing the attention of Russian hackers or whatever might make them each slightly more secure. And in any case, the US election campaign will last for most of next year. A May/June election campaign would clash with 11 Republican primaries, for example. And Western countries are exposed whether a security threat arises during an election campaign or not - it's not as if GCHQ or M16 staff don't work once one is called.

    We have an over-mighty security state much too used to getting its own way without proper scrutiny. We shouldn't hold our democratic process hostage to security considerations, without a lot more specific and detailed information about much more credible additional threats.

    In the interests of security PM Braverman will cancel elections indefinitely.

    Don't say you weren't warned...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,631
    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    These "security concerns" seem to be nonsense, and the added danger from having two elections at once is probably non-existent. They remind me of the idiotic reasons used by the securocrats under Blair to justify 90 day detention without charge. Why is it more difficult to launch cyber attacks on two elections happening at different times than at once? If anything, dividing the attention of Russian hackers or whatever might make them each slightly more secure. And in any case, the US election campaign will last for most of next year. A May/June election campaign would clash with 11 Republican primaries, for example. And Western countries are exposed whether a security threat arises during an election campaign or not - it's not as if GCHQ or M16 staff don't work once one is called.

    We have an over-mighty security state much too used to getting its own way without proper scrutiny. We shouldn't hold our democratic process hostage to security considerations, without a lot more specific and detailed information about much more credible additional threats.

    In the interests of security PM Braverman will cancel elections indefinitely.

    Don't say you weren't warned...
    “Cancel”? Never. Just postponed, and the results properly vetted, when conducted, to ensure they would not lead to a exhorts risk.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,715

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    These are the usual "bastards".... John Major had his "bastards"
    These are anti-Rishi agitators who gave us Prime Minister Liz Truss.

    Enough said.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,631
    edited October 2023
    ydoethur said:

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    I'm reminded of the Shadow Cabinet minister who cautioned against trying to topple Corbyn in 2016 because Labour's procedures meant he would win again, 'leaving us looking not only unelectable but fucking stupid.'

    The Tories don't seem to need help with the latter right now though.
    I don’t believe any of this stuff is true. Who would even stand? Who would want to be PM for one crap year when, if you have the support to win, the alternative could be LOTO through a weak Starmer ministry and then at least one full term. Granted, the downside risk is a strong Labour win and no prospect of being PM, but if you’re ambitious now then I think post-election is when you move.

    Has to be a fighting chance Boris goes for Mid-Beds or Tamworth at the GE on exactly that basis.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,704

    OT
    Just watching the Partygate Channel 4 docudrama on youtube. I know it's dramatised for TV etc, but oh my God...

    It obviously heightened the reality for effect but I didn’t see anyone challenging the essential facts after it was first broadcast. What I still don’t understand is why partygate fines were a fraction of the average of the thousands handed out let alone the really punitive ones.
    It can't have done much for the career prospects of the Spads involved.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    edited October 2023
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    I'm reminded of the Shadow Cabinet minister who cautioned against trying to topple Corbyn in 2016 because Labour's procedures meant he would win again, 'leaving us looking not only unelectable but fucking stupid.'

    The Tories don't seem to need help with the latter right now though.
    I don’t believe any of this stuff is true. Who would even stand? Who would want to be PM for one crap year when, if you have the support to win, the alternative could be LOTO through a weak Starmer ministry and then at least one full term. Granted, the downside risk is a strong Labour win and no prospect of being PM, but if you’re ambitious now then I think post-election is when you move.

    Has to be a fighting chance Boris goes for Mid-Beds or Tamworth at the GE on exactly that basis.
    Braverman, Shapps, Patel would all be interested for sure, probably the sword carrier too. Most of the rest just counting down the days for it to end, or prefer to wait for opposition.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    NZ are 13/1 after 6. Awesome new ball bowling. This is why I think that they are unbeatable.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,571
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    One MP who spoke to the agitators said the groups believed that 20 to 25 letters of no confidence had either been submitted or were about to be submitted to the 1922 Committee.

    “What was clear is that they want to get rid of the prime minister; what was less clear was who they wanted to replace him with,” the MP said. “I told them I didn’t think the British public would forgive us for changing prime minister again and that it would likely hurt not help our electoral fortunes.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-next-uk-general-election-rishi-sunak-2023-wwl2brt3h

    I'm reminded of the Shadow Cabinet minister who cautioned against trying to topple Corbyn in 2016 because Labour's procedures meant he would win again, 'leaving us looking not only unelectable but fucking stupid.'

    The Tories don't seem to need help with the latter right now though.
    I don’t believe any of this stuff is true. Who would even stand? Who would want to be PM for one crap year when, if you have the support to win, the alternative could be LOTO through a weak Starmer ministry and then at least one full term. Granted, the downside risk is a strong Labour win and no prospect of being PM, but if you’re ambitious now then I think post-election is when you move.

    Has to be a fighting chance Boris goes for Mid-Beds or Tamworth at the GE on exactly that basis.
    I hope the party memberships will be sensible enough to refuse him.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,274

    ydoethur said:

    At risk of precipitating a meltdown:

    Chris Williamson’s tweet ‘Israel has forfeited any right to exist’ is now under police investigation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-67161730

    Williamson, of course, is a genuine and unredeemable antisemite, perhaps most bizarrely shown in his statement that claims of his antisemitism were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him.

    Here, however, we come back to an awkward problem. Should he be prosecuted for such views? After all, it’s not as though he is like his friends in Hamas actually trying to carry them out. And however repellent his views - and calling for a genocide is repellent - is there not something difficult about censoring what people say, because it’s a subjective question?

    As you say, this raises many questions. Williamson has some unpleasant views, but are they criminal? People here have advocated ethnic cleansing: should their views be investigated by the police too?

    Is he calling for a genocide? (And I mean that in the sense of can you prove that in a court of law?) He is not calling for anyone to be murdered or expelled, but for a different geopolitical structure. If someone said “Northern Ireland has forfeited any right to exist” and campaigned for Irish unification, that wouldn’t be genocidal, would it?

    Even if he is calling for genocide, is that illegal under UK law? The Terrorism Act 2000 forbids expressing support for terrorism. That’s presumably what he’s being investigated under. But the Terrorism Act says nothing about calling for genocide being a crime. The question is presumably whether his comment constitutes supporting terrorism. But it’s legal to support an outcome that terrorists also support. It’s legal to call for Basque independence or Irish unification, for example.
    I'm uneasy about the police and courts being asked to decide what language implies, no matter how much we all think we know what Williamson means. Does "forfeit the right to exist" mean "kill all its people" or just the end of Israel politically?

    I wonder what this Norweigian lady thinks she means, for example:


This discussion has been closed.