Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

It’s looking like 2 terrible results for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
It’s looking like 2 terrible results for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Read the full story here

Comments

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    edited October 2023
    Quietly confident of first like Labour.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    edited October 2023
    Posted at 2:10
    Tamworth could go to a recount

    We’re told by some of those running the count here in Staffordshire it’s looking very close.

    Discussions appear to be under way over whether the Tamworth vote is close enough for a recount.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67126173
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    edited October 2023
    Third.

    Thanks for the header, Mike !

    I like easy reads.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    BBC: Labour confident in Tamworth but could be recount.
  • Andy_JS said:

    BBC: Labour confident in Tamworth but could be recount.

    Tories asking for a recount to see if they can save their deposit? ;)
  • Hyperbole from Mid Beds:-

    Labour: Mid Beds win would be 'biggest by-election shock in history'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67126173
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    edited October 2023
    Odd statement from the BBC News correspondent: a declaration is getting close, and there may be a recount. But surely a recount will delay the result by quite a while? Usually it does.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    It may be my disillusionment with the current political world, but do by-elections matter as much as they used to?

    Whatever the results tonight, nothing really changes.

    Does this sort of thing resonate beyond politco-nerds?
  • It may be my disillusionment with the current political world, but do by-elections matter as much as they used to?

    Whatever the results tonight, nothing really changes.

    Does this sort of thing resonate beyond politco-nerds?

    A better question is will it resonate with backbench Conservative MPs enough to make them ditch the Prime Minister?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Wot, still no results?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    It may be my disillusionment with the current political world, but do by-elections matter as much as they used to?

    Whatever the results tonight, nothing really changes.

    Does this sort of thing resonate beyond politco-nerds?

    A better question is will it resonate with backbench Conservative MPs enough to make them ditch the Prime Minister?
    It won't make a Tory win more likely
  • January 2025 general election pretty certain now, unless “events” happen.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    Sandpit said:

    Wot, still no results?

    Tamworth very soon.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Sandpit said:

    Wot, still no results?

    They're on the platform in Tamworth. Tory locked in the loo by the look of things.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    edited October 2023
    Tory candidate not on the stage. He hasn't shown up at the count according to Sky News.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,313
    Is the Tory candidate throwing a wobbly?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Tory candidate not on the stage. He hasn't shown up at the count according to Sky News.

    Shameful
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wot, still no results?

    They're on the platform in Tamworth. Tory locked in the loo by the look of things.
    Dirty protest at not been allowed a recount!!
  • Turns out winning Uxbridge was not great for the Tories.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    23.9% swing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    Lab maj 5.14%
    Swing, Con to Lab: 23.89%
  • January 2025 general election pretty certain now, unless “events” happen.

    6.4 on BF currently...
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,313
    I somehow have a feeling those recount rumours came from the Tory candidate... massive sore loser.
  • January 2025 general election pretty certain now, unless “events” happen.

    Events might be happening if it is true Starmer's pro-Israel stance is putting off Muslim voters, and Sunak is pushing for aid for Gaza.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
  • pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    LibDems won't be happy to see the BBC name the "three main parties" as Lab, Con and Reform.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    "Jon Craig
    @joncraig

    Latest prediction I’m hearing at Mid Beds count is Labour win by about 1,000, not the much bigger 3-4,000 I was told earlier. Still a remarkable victory if correct given Nadine Dorries’ majority in 2019 was 24,664."

    https://twitter.com/joncraig/status/1715185660951240743
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    LibDems won't be happy to see the BBC name the "three main parties" as Lab, Con and Reform.
    But what do the LDs stand for? Why vote for them right now?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    Yes, generally quite a big far-right vote - over 3000 between BF, UKIP and Reform. Is that the first Reform deposit retained?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    I somehow have a feeling those recount rumours came from the Tory candidate... massive sore loser.

    He told some people to fxck off and they returned the favour!

    Perhaps the Facebook drama did cost him some votes .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    edited October 2023

    pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    Yes, generally quite a big far-right vote - over 3000 between BF, UKIP and Reform. Is that the first Reform deposit retained?
    No, they also achieved 5%+ in Old Bexley and Sidcup (with leader Richard Tice as candidate).
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    LibDems won't be happy to see the BBC name the "three main parties" as Lab, Con and Reform.
    But what do the LDs stand for? Why vote for them right now?
    They stand for being the party to vote for in Tory/Lib Dem marginals if you want rid of the Cons . And that’s exactly what I’ll be doing in Eastbourne.

    A Labour vote here is just enabling the Tories so it has to be Lib Dem .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    edited October 2023
    This was the second-highest swing from Con to Lab since 1945. Only Dudley West in 1994 was larger.
  • pinball13 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 11,719
    Con 10,403
    ReformUK 1,373
    Britain First 580
    UKIP 436
    Green 417
    LD 417
    Loony 155
    Longman 86

    Lab maj 1,316

    Electorate 71,302
    Total votes 25,586
    Turnout 35.88%

    Lab 45.80%
    Con 40.66%
    ReformUK 5.37%
    Britain First 2.27%
    UKIP 1.70%
    Green 1.63%
    LD 1.63%
    Loony 0.61%
    Longman 0.34%

    Sad to see Britain First beating Greens and LDs
    Yes, generally quite a big far-right vote - over 3000 between BF, UKIP and Reform. Is that the first Reform deposit retained?
    Disillusioned Tories looking for a home?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    edited October 2023
    Mid Beds

    Lab 13,872
    Con 12,680
    LD 9,420
    Mackey 1,865
    ReformUK 1,487
    Green 732
    Loony 249
    Eng Dem 107
    CPA 101
    True & Fair 93
    Heritage 63
    Emp India 27
    Mainstream 24

    Electorate 92,578
    Total votes 40,720
    Turnout 43.98%

    Lab maj 1,192


    Lab 34.07%
    Con 31.14%
    LD 23.13%
    Mackey 4.58%
    ReformUK 3.65%
    Green 1.80%

    Lab maj 2.93%

    Swing, Con to Lab: 20.52%
  • Never had a doubt :lol:
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Andy_JS said:

    Mid Beds

    Lab 13,872
    Con 12,680
    LD 9,420
    Mackey 1,865
    ReformUK 1,487
    Green 732
    Loony 249
    Eng Dem 107
    CPA 101
    True & Fair 93
    Heritage 63
    Emp India 27
    Mainstream 24

    Electorate 92,578
    Total votes 40,720
    Turnout 43.98%

    Lab maj 1,192

    Only 20.5% swing.

    Diddy.

    SKSFPE.
  • Never had a doubt :lol:

    How much money did you make on it Sunil?
  • Predicted an 800 Lab maj earlier on here. Not bad.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    Spectacular result for Labour to win Mid Beds.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Seriously though, there are lots of seats across the wider South that will look at Labour as possible winners, that advertising is priceless, as LD will now be squeezed outside their obvious targets.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    Is the Tory candidate not on the stage in Mid Beds?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Is the Tory candidate not on the stage in Mid Beds?

    He was there, just off screen.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Andy_JS said:

    Is the Tory candidate not on the stage in Mid Beds?

    He was late arriving and then quickly left .

    Great night for Labour and the result in Mid Beds is good for the Lib Dems .

    Some Tories won’t cross over to Labour but will to the Lib Dems.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2023
    Tremors now being felt in Tamworth, are from Sir Robert Peel's restless spirit doing cartwheels.

    Appears they are also shaking the Bed!
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Rayner's ginger army on the march this evening.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,670
    Hooray! I made a nice little profit on that. Would have wiped my face had Con or LD won, so that's clearly the best possible outcome for the voters of mid Beds.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    LOL
  • Never had a doubt :lol:

    How much money did you make on it Sunil?
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4576784/#Comment_4576784
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,950
    Congratulations to everyone who predicted a Labour win in Mid Beds.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    edited October 2023
    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    Turnout only 43%, despite all three parties seemingly throwing the kitchen sink at this constituency for months.

    Good result for Labour though, Sunak’s not going to be too happy today. 600 votes the other way, and the narrative would be very different this morning.
  • I think a question maybe to ask is where a big by-election swing (let's say 20% or more) HASN'T led to a change in govt at the next GE?

    Mid Staffs 1990 springs to mind - any others?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705
    Not only a terrible result for the Tories, it’s an excellent result for Labour. Two big swings, delivered on the same day in different parts of country and overcoming a LD challenge in Mid Beds. Promising.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Cons will win both at the General.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,629
    Sir Keir Starmer fans please explain.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,629
    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    Someone will be an MP for, what, 14 months maximum?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705

    Cons will win both at the General.

    You might have to get rid of Dr Death. His inability to do basic politics is proving fatal to the blue gang. Trouble is you’ll bring back Truss.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Wow. The Tories really have lost their voters. As much hand sitting as switching, but they all count. We will all get a free owl by Christmas , through the autumn statement. As noted above, GE now nailed on for Jan 2025.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Good morning all.

    To the doubters amongst you, cast it away. We're heading for a huge Labour General Election victory.

    That 13/4 bet on a Labour win 36 hours ago was a very pretty penny. Happy about that. But considerably more happy that the voters of this country are going to exact their revenge on the Conservatives for all their appalling behaviour in recent times.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    That's I'm afraid a desperate thing to post.

    With a turnout at a by-election substantially down you're obviously talking about fewer votes.

    These are two HUGE wins for Labour on swings of 23.9% and 20.5%, which come on top of the swing at Rutherglen of 23.6%

    Scotland, Midlands, South: all 20%+ swings to Labour.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    “Nothing to do with Russia”

    Watch the video:

    Amir Weitmann, powerful member of Netanyahu’s Likud party in Israel, went live on Russia Today and, oh Boy, tore into Russia’s stance. I was only waiting for him to step through the screen. What an epic statement.

    This is exactly what will resonate in Moscow, especially with Putin.

    #Israel #Russia #Ukraine
    [VIDEO]

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1715091278759637078?s=46&t=eiaG-Nju8t7zgfE3oCmAHA
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    biggles said:

    Wow. The Tories really have lost their voters. As much hand sitting as switching, but they all count. We will all get a free owl by Christmas , through the autumn statement. As noted above, GE now nailed on for Jan 2025.

    I'm currently staying with my tory friend in Surrey and we were just discussing it over an early cuppa. She has voted Conservative at every single election since she turned 18.

    She will not vote for them next time for the first time in her life.

    Nothing to do with me: she is repulsed by the direction they have gone, almost to the point of tears.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Andy_JS said:

    This was the second-highest swing from Con to Lab since 1945. Only Dudley West in 1994 was larger.

    And look what followed at the next General Election ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,128

    Cons will win both at the General.

    Or be below 100 seats...

    I see that leaked memo from the Tories 2 days back was spot on. Not many direct vote switchers but rather a refusal to turn out.

    Well done Labour!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023

    January 2025 general election pretty certain now, unless “events” happen.

    Well only if that want political suicide.

    No one has any money in January. It's dark, cold, it messes up Christmas, New Year/Hogmanay, and it smacks of utter desperation. It's a very very bad look to be clinging to the last minutes of power.

    The tories could face a sub-100 seat wipeout if they do it. I think it's exceptionally unlikely because for all his faults I don't think Sunak is that stupid.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,201
    Heathener said:

    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    That's I'm afraid a desperate thing to post...

    No, it's not.
    It's just underlining, given the massive percentage swing, how much the Tory vote has collapsed.
    What will win Labour a majority at the next election is that the Conservatives own voters have just had enough of them.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    The Daily Telegraph are saying that the Mid-Beds result is the largest majority ever overturned.

    Is this true?

    Also:

    Labour’s victories at Mid Bedfordshire and Tamworth mean that swings of over 20 percentage points have taken place at eight by-elections in the past three years - a pattern that is unprecedented in recent political history.

    Five of the eight swings have occurred in the past four months:

    Selby & Ainsty (23.7 points from Conservatives to Labour)
    Somerton & Frome (29.0 points from Conservatives to the Liberal Democrats) in July
    Rutherglen & Hamilton West (20.4 points from the SNP to Labour) earlier this month
    Mid Bedfordshire (20.5 points from Conservatives to Labour)
    Tamworth (23.9 points from Conservatives to Labour)

    The others were Tiverton & Honiton (29.9 points) in June 2022, North Shropshire (34.1 points) in December 2021, and Chesham & Amersham (25.2 points) in June 2021, all from the Conservatives to the Liberal Democrats.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    That's I'm afraid a desperate thing to post...

    No, it's not.
    It's just underlining, given the massive percentage swing, how much the Tory vote has collapsed.
    What will win Labour a majority at the next election is that the Conservatives own voters have just had enough of them.
    No it's what sore losers always say after a crushing by-election defeat. You occasionally get it on GE nights too.

    There are literally no crumbs of comfort in this for the tories, just as the critics of Keir Starmer might be advised to go away and spend a little time in self-reflection.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,128

    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20

    The Tories have lost both Remainers AND Leavers is the only way that voter pattern has broken down.

    Sunak is doomed to go down in history with the Brexit albatross around his neck.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,151
    Foxy said:

    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20

    The Tories have lost both Remainers AND Leavers is the only way that voter pattern has broken down.

    Sunak is doomed to go down in history with the Brexit albatross around his neck.
    This.

    Punishing the Tories for Brexit (and the fiasco of how they went about it) will be an overdue pleasure.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Undoubtedly a very good night for Labour - whether the Tories go down to defeat or wipeout at the GE will depend on whether the Tory voter strike continues or not.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,133
    edited October 2023

    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20

    I agree - I get the impression that Brexit has lost its salience. I hear it mentioned a lot less than I did when people talk politics. Partly because of time, partly because it's neither got us to the sunlit uplands nor caused catastrophic collapse. It's difficult to feel passionately about mediocrity, especially given all the horror currently happening overseas, and with living standards, which, given similar and worse declines across continental Europe, is obviously unrelated to leaving the EU.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,128
    I see too that in both byelections that REFUK got more votes than the Lab majority.

    So all that red meat chucked at the XL Bully party by the Tory culture warriors at their conference did them no good with their target audience.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,151
    Meanwhile, lost in the other news:

    Many more councils in England are at risk of bankruptcy, town hall leaders have warned, as unprecedented financial pressures force local authorities to prepare drastic cuts to services to cope with a collective £4bn deficit.

    The bleak message, set out in a letter to the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, said council budgets were “under pressure like never before” because of the rapid deterioration in their finances caused by inflation and soaring demand for social care.

    Without an injection of government cash even well-run councils – both Labour and Conservative controlled – were at serious risk of running into financial difficulty over the next 18 months, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.

    It said an “inflationary storm” had dramatically widened English councils’ estimated budget gap by an extra £1bn since July alone, with resources outstripped by the soaring costs of child protection, special educational needs and homelessness services

    Councils reporting major overspends this autumn are scrambling to meet their legal duty to balance their budgets by next April, typically proposing cuts to “discretionary” spending in areas like bus subsidies, museums, leisure centres, recycling centres and grants to local charities.

    Remaining resources are being increasingly focused on coping with huge demand for “core” statutory services such as social care – which accounts on average for 64p in every pound spent by top tier authorities, up from 56p six years ago – and providing temporary accommodation for homeless families.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    Fishing said:

    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20

    I agree - I get the impression that Brexit has lost its salience. I hear it mentioned a lot less than I did when people talk politics. Partly because of time, partly because it's neither got us to the sunlit uplands nor caused catastrophic collapse. It's difficult to feel passionately about mediocrity, especially given all the horror currently happening overseas, and with living standards, which, given similar and worse declines across continental Europe, is obviously unrelated to leaving the EU.
    I don't think that quite hits the spot.

    It's not that people think it has lost its salience in the way you turned CV's comment in a different direction, it's that a significant number of people now know it was a mistake. I do hear people referring back to it, but in those terms.

    How Carlotta put it was more accurate: it now proves little guide to the parties' political fortunes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    “Nothing to do with Russia”

    Watch the video:

    Amir Weitmann, powerful member of Netanyahu’s Likud party in Israel, went live on Russia Today and, oh Boy, tore into Russia’s stance. I was only waiting for him to step through the screen. What an epic statement.

    This is exactly what will resonate in Moscow, especially with Putin.

    #Israel #Russia #Ukraine
    [VIDEO]

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1715091278759637078?s=46&t=eiaG-Nju8t7zgfE3oCmAHA

    Not mincing his words there, was he?

    Meanwhile, in other WWIII news, drones attacked US air bases in Iraq and Syria yesterday.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/us-military-bases-in-iraq-syria-targeted-in-drone-attack-injuries-reported
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    Congrats to the two new MPs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,201
    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    That's I'm afraid a desperate thing to post...

    No, it's not.
    It's just underlining, given the massive percentage swing, how much the Tory vote has collapsed.
    What will win Labour a majority at the next election is that the Conservatives own voters have just had enough of them.
    No it's what sore losers always say after a crushing by-election defeat. You occasionally get it on GE nights too.

    There are literally no crumbs of comfort in this for the tories, just as the critics of Keir Starmer might be advised to go away and spend a little time in self-reflection.
    Again, you are missing the point - and your ascribing motive to a poster without any real evidence, which is just rude.

    One other interesting aspect is that there is an argument that the LibDems competing in some seats might not actually hinder Labour's chances, if they take enough votes from past Tory voters who are reluctant to switch to Labour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,151
    edited October 2023
    Heathener said:

    Fishing said:

    Interesting observation in an interesting thread:

    Brexit voting patterns are now proving little guide to the parties’ political fortunes. No-one would have believed that Tamworth or mid-Beds could be in play, even at by-elections. In 2019 and 2021 the Brexit realignment looked permanent and ongoing. It doesn’t now.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1715204941734678949?s=20

    I agree - I get the impression that Brexit has lost its salience. I hear it mentioned a lot less than I did when people talk politics. Partly because of time, partly because it's neither got us to the sunlit uplands nor caused catastrophic collapse. It's difficult to feel passionately about mediocrity, especially given all the horror currently happening overseas, and with living standards, which, given similar and worse declines across continental Europe, is obviously unrelated to leaving the EU.
    I don't think that quite hits the spot.

    It's not that people think it has lost its salience in the way you turned CV's comment in a different direction, it's that a significant number of people now know it was a mistake. I do hear people referring back to it, but in those terms.

    How Carlotta put it was more accurate: it now proves little guide to the parties' political fortunes.
    It’s lost its salience for (previous or current) supporters, is how the assessment should read. The political position of seeking support because Brexit is somehow under threat or not done properly or not done fully enough has disappeared, now that most people can see the depressing reality, with the Norwegian-style health service promised by the Leave campaign almost a comedy sketch, given how far from reality it remains.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,201
    House GOP drowning as crisis reaches breaking point

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/19/house-gop-speaker-mccarthy-gaetz-00122617
    When Matt Gaetz stepped to the microphones during Thursday’s three-hour private House GOP meeting on the speakership, the speaker he ousted promptly yelled at him to “sit down.”

    Kevin McCarthy was not the only Republican to vent fury with Gaetz, the Florida conservative who successfully ousted the House’s leader. The room met Gaetz with booing, profanities and calls to back off, according to multiple lawmakers in the room. When Gaetz refused, Rep. Mike Bost (R-Ill.) stood up and hollered a command at him that one Republican recalled as: “If you don’t sit down, I’ll put you down.”..

    ...After 16 days adrift, it was clear by Thursday evening that House Republicans have hit rock bottom. What began as social media sniping over their failed speakership battle has devolved into real fears for the safety of members whose families are receiving personal threats over their decision to oppose Jordan...

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    slade said:

    Just noticed that Labour got fewer votes in Mid Beds than in the last General election.

    That's I'm afraid a desperate thing to post...

    No, it's not.
    It's just underlining, given the massive percentage swing, how much the Tory vote has collapsed.
    What will win Labour a majority at the next election is that the Conservatives own voters have just had enough of them.
    That was the story of 1997, the Con vote stayed home just as much as the Lab vote come out for Blair.

    Blair added 2m votes compared to Kinnock, but Major lost 4.5m of his 1992 voters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,128
    🚨 *JUST FOR FUN ALARM* 🚨

    How GB would vote if the Mid Bedfordshire By-Election swing was repeated across the country:

    LAB: 480 (+284)
    LDM: 104 (+96)
    CON: 20 (-356)
    SNP: 23 (-25)
    PLC: 3 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Labour Majority: 310
    Changes w/ GE2019 Notional.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1715211956980785483?t=jVX-zyQfOSxIOAg2updYKQ&s=19

    Tories 4th largest party in the Commons.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,128
    Foxy said:

    🚨 *JUST FOR FUN ALARM* 🚨

    How GB would vote if the Mid Bedfordshire By-Election swing was repeated across the country:

    LAB: 480 (+284)
    LDM: 104 (+96)
    CON: 20 (-356)
    SNP: 23 (-25)
    PLC: 3 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Labour Majority: 310
    Changes w/ GE2019 Notional.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1715211956980785483?t=jVX-zyQfOSxIOAg2updYKQ&s=19

    Tories 4th largest party in the Commons.

    Quite striking patten of voting reflecting the old Danelaw.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    New thread folks
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,151
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    🚨 *JUST FOR FUN ALARM* 🚨

    How GB would vote if the Mid Bedfordshire By-Election swing was repeated across the country:

    LAB: 480 (+284)
    LDM: 104 (+96)
    CON: 20 (-356)
    SNP: 23 (-25)
    PLC: 3 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Labour Majority: 310
    Changes w/ GE2019 Notional.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1715211956980785483?t=jVX-zyQfOSxIOAg2updYKQ&s=19

    Tories 4th largest party in the Commons.

    Quite striking patten of voting reflecting the old Danelaw.
    And suggests rather more tactical voting opportunity for the LibDems than sometimes suggested.
  • Foxy said:

    🚨 *JUST FOR FUN ALARM* 🚨

    How GB would vote if the Mid Bedfordshire By-Election swing was repeated across the country:

    LAB: 480 (+284)
    LDM: 104 (+96)
    CON: 20 (-356)
    SNP: 23 (-25)
    PLC: 3 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Labour Majority: 310
    Changes w/ GE2019 Notional.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1715211956980785483?t=jVX-zyQfOSxIOAg2updYKQ&s=19

    Tories 4th largest party in the Commons.

    Amusing that even in that cirucmstance the Tories would still have one seat in Scotland.
This discussion has been closed.