politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Time to back Maria Miller as next out of the cabinet?
Over the weekend stories emerged about Maria Miller, the Culture Secretary, being criticised by parliamentary standards officials for claiming mortgage repayments and other expenses associated with a large detached property in south London.
Yep, it's wrong, and you would have thought that MPs would have learnt their lesson by now.
I work near Basingstoke, and the opinion of most people I've spoken to is that she should have been bloody well capable of commuting from there, like plenty of people around here do.
Set up a system where you can make £100k-plus for minimal effort and this is going to happen. People are people, and the indignation that arises in these cases hides the fact that 80% of "normal" people would have done the same (probably nearer 95% in an environment where all your colleagues were doing it too).
What we have here are resignations forced by being caught.
[and, face facts, you don't get to be an MP by being principled, but by being duplicitous, treacherous and conniving]
I get a distinct impression that the Committee on Standards was looking for a way to avoid severe sanctions. A report said the committee was divided - between people who felt she'd done nothing wrong, and people who thought it was an accidental oversight. The implication was that nobody thought it actually merited serious punishment.
(I've not followed the details so I've no opinion myself, by the way.)
Given the ongoing European sovereign debt crisis, is Salmond really expecting anyone to believe that a small transaction cost for the small share of business going across Hadrian's wall is worth the huge financial risks of a currency union for every business in the country?
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
"A record 602 foreign criminals used the European Convention on Human Rights, often via the European Court of Human Rights, to stop themselves from being deported from the UK last year."
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
It was a succinct deconstruction, given in front of a very hostile audience fielding probing, insightful questions...
I get a distinct impression that the Committee on Standards was looking for a way to avoid severe sanctions. A report said the committee was divided - between people who felt she'd done nothing wrong, and people who thought it was an accidental oversight. The implication was that nobody thought it actually merited serious punishment.
(I've not followed the details so I've no opinion myself, by the way.)
How could you possibly overlook £14k, even on an MP's salary? Sounds like people protecting their own class if you ask me...
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
Alex Salmond attacks ‘campaign rhetoric’ with a ‘George Tax’
Yep, it's wrong, and you would have thought that MPs would have learnt their lesson by now.
I work near Basingstoke, and the opinion of most people I've spoken to is that she should have been bloody well capable of commuting from there, like plenty of people around here do.
The season ticket from Basingstoke to Waterloo is a bit more than £4,500, which is a lot less than £90,000.
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
Alex Salmond attacks ‘campaign rhetoric’ with a ‘George Tax’
I get a distinct impression that the Committee on Standards was looking for a way to avoid severe sanctions. A report said the committee was divided - between people who felt she'd done nothing wrong, and people who thought it was an accidental oversight. The implication was that nobody thought it actually merited serious punishment.
(I've not followed the details so I've no opinion myself, by the way.)
A committee of (lesser) troughers, is hardly going to find fault with a fellow trougher.
'Given the ongoing European sovereign debt crisis, is Salmond really expecting anyone to believe that a small transaction cost for the small share of business going across Hadrian's wall is worth the huge financial risks of a currency union for every business in the country?'
Given that Salmond wants an independent Scotland to eventually join the EU (however long that takes) & new EU members are forced to join the €uro,business in rUK will get the transaction cost anyway.
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
Alex Salmond attacks ‘campaign rhetoric’ with a ‘George Tax’
Short version; "I'm right, you're all wrong, and what's more he's English. Oh, and if I don't get what I want I'm not paying my bills."
Masterpiece of statesmanship and diplomacy.....
You were expecting him to set out the nineteen precedents where successor states and seceding states entered long term currency unions?
But it's only for a year or two anyway, till Scotland joins the EU (as on Salmond's own case it will) and therefore joins the euro (which the rules say it will have to), and then we'll have the transaction costs anyway. I know raising this point makes me a bullying English PB Unionist, but it would still be good to know the answer.
But it's only for a year or two anyway, till Scotland joins the EU (as on Salmond's own case it will) and therefore joins the euro (which the rules say it will have to), and then we'll have the transaction costs anyway. I know raising this point makes me a bullying English PB Unionist, but it would still be good to know the answer.
Yes, surely Salmond had no qualms about 'transaction fees' when he wanted to join the Euro not so long ago. Sterling is a millstone, after all.
Ok, some more detailed queries. Do Salmond address: Lender of last resort concerns? The requirement for stringent fiscal limits, which would be contrary to a spirit of independence? The fact it would require the agreement of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but all the major parties are opposed?
Also, was there any suggestion of an alternative policy? Because the current position appears to be "We can vote to be independent and then dictate to the country we just left that we'll share their currency". That's not necessarily entirely consistent with reason.
@JosiasJessop - FPT: The word being given to the media is that the further damage at Dawlish pushes back the repairs by "upto two weeks", which would put completion back from March 18th to April 1st (at latest), so the "by the end of March" bet is not definitively lost, particularly given that there's no sign of another major blow on the way.
Last day of school term in London boroughs appears to be Friday 4th April - I imagine they'll be doing everything they can to have the line open in time for that.
But it's only for a year or two anyway, till Scotland joins the EU (as on Salmond's own case it will) and therefore joins the euro (which the rules say it will have to), and then we'll have the transaction costs anyway. I know raising this point makes me a bullying English PB Unionist, but it would still be good to know the answer.
Yes, surely Salmond had no qualms about 'transaction fees' when he wanted to join the Euro not so long ago. Sterling is a millstone, after all.
It does beg the question as to why he doesn't simply say that Scotland would join the Euro as soon as is feasibly possible, post any 'Yes' vote.
But it's only for a year or two anyway, till Scotland joins the EU (as on Salmond's own case it will) and therefore joins the euro (which the rules say it will have to), and then we'll have the transaction costs anyway. I know raising this point makes me a bullying English PB Unionist, but it would still be good to know the answer.
Yes, surely Salmond had no qualms about 'transaction fees' when he wanted to join the Euro not so long ago. Sterling is a millstone, after all.
Not just transaction costs but also exchange risk.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
Ok, some more detailed queries. Do Salmond address: Lender of last resort concerns? The requirement for stringent fiscal limits, which would be contrary to a spirit of independence? The fact it would require the agreement of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but all the major parties are opposed?
Also, was there any suggestion of an alternative policy? Because the current position appears to be "We can vote to be independent and then dictate to the country we just left that we'll share their currency". That's not necessarily entirely consistent with reason.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
I'm writing a thread for sometime this week.
Whatever the outcome of the IndyRef, will the result be a trigger for electoral and constitutional reform for the UK/RUK
Surely if there were no currency union English importers into Scotland would either take the hit or put up their prices. I guess Scottish importers into England would do the same. If cheaper options for consumers emerge that's capitalism for you.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
The Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) (Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd CJ, Leveson P, Hallett & Treacy LJ, & Burnett J) will tomorrow hand down its judgment on the lawfulness of whole life orders in the aftermath of the decision of the Strasbourg Court in Vinter and others v United Kingdom.
Mr. Observer, given the political stance of the major UK parties you may be able to make a significant sum if you can find a corresponding market on the subject.
Ok, some more detailed queries. Do Salmond address: Lender of last resort concerns? The requirement for stringent fiscal limits, which would be contrary to a spirit of independence? The fact it would require the agreement of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but all the major parties are opposed?
Also, was there any suggestion of an alternative policy? Because the current position appears to be "We can vote to be independent and then dictate to the country we just left that we'll share their currency". That's not necessarily entirely consistent with reason.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
I mean really ? So people spelling out the bleeding obvious would drive you to vote against it ? Then you must be shocked at some of the recent comments by EU officials and will be voting out at the first opportunity.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
They also have the right to grandstand in silly ways in a desperate attempt to influence the outcome of the referendum. Let's not pretend that they just have the noble aim of enlightening the people in mind.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
Would an independent Scotland revive Gretna Green as the destination of choice for eloping? I'll take a cheque.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
They also have the right to grandstand in silly ways in a desperate attempt to influence the outcome of the referendum. Let's not pretend that they just have the noble aim of enlightening the people in mind.
Same can be said for the Yes side, grandstanding on issues over which they have no control, with the notable example of the non-existent legal advice over EU entry which they spent £20k defending the right not to publish.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
I don't question their right to say whatever foolish thing they can think of, but I do question the wisdom of doing so.
Ok, some more detailed queries. Do Salmond address: Lender of last resort concerns? The requirement for stringent fiscal limits, which would be contrary to a spirit of independence? The fact it would require the agreement of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but all the major parties are opposed?
Also, was there any suggestion of an alternative policy? Because the current position appears to be "We can vote to be independent and then dictate to the country we just left that we'll share their currency". That's not necessarily entirely consistent with reason.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Dear Mr SumMe
If you propose to me an arrangement whereby you and I set up a joint bank account, I regret that I will decline the suggestion.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
'Ah, the PB Unionist universal translator, Babblepish. Wonderful the strange constructions it comes up with.'
Was Jim Sillars description of a currency union as 'stupidity on stilts' a split in the Yes camp or just Babblepish?
The Yes camp? Can you tell me what position Jim Sillars holds within either the SNP or the Yes campaign? Then perhaps you can tell me who 4 days ago re. No position on currency union said: 'This is entirely political and of course consistent with the unionist campaign. This is negative, it is about spreading fears and scare stories. What we require from the unionist parties is a bit of statesmanship and quite frankly their behaviour so far falls well short of that.' I'll give you a clue, he's currently voting No.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
If Scotland votes to become independent who would own the fish in the River Tweed? Is the whole river Scottish, only half of it, and is it divided by linear width or volume?
If you PM me I'll tell you where to send the bottle of vintage Scotch. Thanks.
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
It's quite boring and negative though. Seems we are playing into Yes's hands by appearing to be bad neighbours.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
Here's a go: how will Scottish Independence effect the use of the NATO military ranges up at Cape Wrath in the very northwest tip of Scotland?
Even if Scotland remained in NATO, would the organisation want to have their only ship-to-shore bombardment range in northern Europe, and the only place they can land live 1,000-pound bombs, in a country that is in half a mind to leave?
If you PM me I'll tell you where to send the bottle of vintage Scotch. Thanks.
If you think the prize is going to be that good you have as naive an approach to negotiations as the people who will be sitting around the table after Scotland votes 'yes' in September
It seems to me that the whole essence of independence is that the decisions will be made by the representatives of the Scottish people in the Holyrood Parliament in Edinburgh.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Westminster politicians have every right to say what they will and wont agree to in independence negotiations. Better that the voters go into the polling booths with their eyes open.
It's quite boring and negative though. Seems we are playing into Yes's hands by appearing to be bad neighbours.
You think shangri la bullshit from Salmond isn't boring ?
It's quite boring and negative though. Seems we are playing into Yes's hands by appearing to be bad neighbours.
Saying we won't have a currency union with an independent Scotland doesn't make us a bad neighbour. We are being extremely straight forward about the matter by ruling it out, just as we are by guaranteeing all UK debts no matter what happens.
I suspect that most Scots, remember the nats represent a minority, understand why we are saying these things now rather than allowing uncertainty to develop as the referendum nears.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Because Scotland needs one very badly and will, therefore, agree to all terms set out by the rUK. And if the rUK can dictate all terms there is no disadvantage to the rUK, while being part of such a union has some marginal advantages. Salmond is right to say that there was some bluster in what the unionist politicians said last week - if you read the advice from the Treasury (as opposed to Osborne's speech) combined with Mark Carney's speech there is plenty of wriggle room. However, Salmond is being less than up front with Scottish voters about Scotland's complete lack of a negotiating position. The options are: (1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or (2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt. And that's it.
If yes wins the referendum, how long before anyone other than the SNP is in power? Any guesses?
Would be weird if the ruling party were ruling an independent country that it thought should be part of a union wouldn't it? specially as the other side of the the border wanted a union as well
If yes wins the referendum, how long before anyone other than the SNP is in power? Any guesses?
Would be weird if the ruling party were ruling an independent country that it thought should be part of a union wouldn't it? specially as the other side of the the border wanted a union as well
Once the union is ended, it would be a national re-embarrassment to ask to join again. I'm pretty sure the rest of the parties would thus have to change their positions or risk offending national pride.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Because Scotland needs one very badly and will, therefore, agree to all terms set out by the rUK. And if the rUK can dictate all terms there is no disadvantage to the rUK, while being part of such a union has some marginal advantages. Salmond is right to say that there was some bluster in what the unionist politician said last week - if you read the advice from the Treasury (as opposed to Osborne's speech) combined with Mark Carney's speech there is plenty of wriggle room. However, Salmond is being less than up front with Scottish voters about Scotland's complete lack of a negotiating position. The options are: (1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or (2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt. And that's it.
The Scots might need one badly but the rest of us don't. So far you've set out a negotiating position without mentioning the salient points. To date you've said that transaction costs are the big advantage, but at £500m per annum they're dwarfed by the other side of the argument the bank bail outs alone were worth 100 years of transaction costs.
To date the best observation has been Ed Balls' why would we want a CU with a country which is trying to leave it to join another CU ?
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
If Scotland votes to become independent who would own the fish in the River Tweed? Is the whole river Scottish, only half of it, and is it divided by linear width or volume?
If you PM me I'll tell you where to send the bottle of vintage Scotch. Thanks.
100% Scots for most of the way, then almost 50-50 a fair bit*, then 50% Berwick, 50% [rest of] English.
*Except for where the border suddenly darts south into England for a short distance, , goes east-ish, and then disappears back north into the middle of the river. Apparently a Scots and an English village used to play the mediaeval or post-m equivalent of footy, and the winners 'owned' the pitch till the next year. And it just so happened that the Scots won the last game ... no idea if it is true but I like the story!
PS. Do I win the 'new and original comment' prize?
Scotland leaves the UK, but the EU withdrawal referendum doesn't happen. Scotland, desperate for a currency union, bends over backwards to accommodate UK concerns, as per Southam's scenario. An agreement is done where Scotland is under strict revenue and expenditure limits, approved yearly by a body where 90% of representation is from the UK. This is a much more rigorous system than the Eurozone, which continues to find it politically impossible to pass the much needed reforms. Scotland also manages to hang on to EU membership. In such a situation, you would have two currency unions within the EU, one working much more effectively than the other, especially as the sterling zone is likely to have higher growth. In such a situation, would other countries start becoming more interested in the sterling zone than the eurozone? Notably Ireland, which is already in a free passport area with the UK and Scotland...
Short version; "I'm right, you're all wrong, and what's more he's English. Oh, and if I don't get what I want I'm not paying my bills."
When did Salmond mention Osborne being English?
When he said George Tax because George is english you see.
Ah, the PB Unionist universal translator, Babblepish. Wonderful the strange constructions it comes up with.
Ah the divvie diversion, never a straight answer.
You didn't ask a question. I asked a straight question about Salmond describing Osborne as 'English', complete PB body swerve thus far.
I think it's pretty obvious the slant in Salmond's comment myself, as indeed would the target audience.
To criticise a Tory is not to be anti-English, remember we habe plenty of Tories in Scotland (and I reckon they'd survive better after a Yes vote than the Labour side).
I think the answer for Ireland is quite obvious - none of the 5 or 6 main political parties in the Republic are calling for a switch back to a Sterling zone. However the experience of Ireland moving from a Sterling zone to a Euro one (something that was probably not envisaged at independence) must surely make drawing Scotland into an arrangement with rUK more attractive for Westminster (what would it benefit them to see Scotland repeat the same journey?).
The English and Welsh have thought about this and they've decided they don't like the idea. None of the main three political parties is going to give way on this point.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Because Scotland needs one very badly and will, therefore, agree to all terms set out by the rUK. And if the rUK can dictate all terms there is no disadvantage to the rUK, while being part of such a union has some marginal advantages. Salmond is right to say that there was some bluster in what the unionist politician said last week - if you read the advice from the Treasury (as opposed to Osborne's speech) combined with Mark Carney's speech there is plenty of wriggle room. However, Salmond is being less than up front with Scottish voters about Scotland's complete lack of a negotiating position. The options are: (1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or (2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt. And that's it.
The Scots might need one badly but the rest of us don't. So far you've set out a negotiating position without mentioning the salient points. To date you've said that transaction costs are the big advantage, but at £500m per annum they're dwarfed by the other side of the argument the bank bail outs alone were worth 100 years of transaction costs.
To date the best observation has been Ed Balls' why would we want a CU with a country which is trying to leave it to join another CU ?
It can all be taken care of in the terms that the rUK dictates. What we will end up with is Devomax, except Scotland would have its own Olympics team, a seat in the UN and even less influence over Bank of England decision making than it does now. Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union. As you have said, a separate currency is the only way that happens. But, it seems, the SNP leadership does not like that option because of the risks it brings. Sillars, Harvie and other members of the Yes team are much more willing to accept that there are some potential short and medium term downsides to independence, but Salmond and Sturgeon clearly do not trust the Scottish people to make the right decision if they are exposed to these before 18th September.
I think any poster who comes up with an entirely new and interesting point on the issue of Scottish independence today should be given a prize of some sort.
If Scotland votes to become independent who would own the fish in the River Tweed? Is the whole river Scottish, only half of it, and is it divided by linear width or volume?
If you PM me I'll tell you where to send the bottle of vintage Scotch. Thanks.
100% Scots for most of the way, then almost 50-50 a fair bit*, then 50% Berwick, 50% [rest of] English.
*Except for where the border suddenly darts south into England for a short distance, , goes east-ish, and then disappears back north into the middle of the river. Apparently a Scots and an English village used to play the mediaeval or post-m equivalent of footy, and the winners 'owned' the pitch till the next year. And it just so happened that the Scots won the last game ... no idea if it is true but I like the story!
PS. Do I win the 'new and original comment' prize?
Actually on reflection I should have added the qualifier that there will be clear legal demarcations for the river anyway - the border was always a boundary between legal systems and also county (and burgh) councils (for instance, on riparian rights) so one just needs to check the old maps and regulations. That is the advantage of one of the oldest and most stable borders (I think the Debatable Lands were settled long ago), with the possible exception of the grey area of Berwick and its surrounding town fields, and even that would depend on the locals.
How about air traffic control? All flights from London to N.America fly initially north over Scotland. Maybe Eck could refuse airspace to flights from London until Osborne bows before him with sufficient enthusiasm.
Or what about border controls? If Scotland goes and is on the waiting list for EU then it will be a non-EU country and we'd all need passports to cross the border.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Because Scotland needs one very badly and will, therefore, agree to all terms set out by the rUK. And if the rUK can dictate all terms there is no disadvantage to the rUK, while being part of such a union has some marginal advantages. Salmond is right to say that there was some bluster in what the unionist politicians said last week - if you read the advice from the Treasury (as opposed to Osborne's speech) combined with Mark Carney's speech there is plenty of wriggle room. However, Salmond is being less than up front with Scottish voters about Scotland's complete lack of a negotiating position. The options are: (1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or (2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt. And that's it.
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Because Scotland needs one very badly and will, therefore, agree to all terms set out by the rUK. And if the rUK can dictate all terms there is no disadvantage to the rUK, while being part of such a union has some marginal advantages. Salmond is right to say that there was some bluster in what the unionist politicians said last week - if you read the advice from the Treasury (as opposed to Osborne's speech) combined with Mark Carney's speech there is plenty of wriggle room. However, Salmond is being less than up front with Scottish voters about Scotland's complete lack of a negotiating position. The options are: (1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or (2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt. And that's it.
Red herring. Scotland payment of UK debt is a completely separate issue which would never be dealt with in a currency union agreement anyway - why should it? The only connection between the two is Sturgeon's threat which is about on the level of "we will find out where you live and put dog poo through your letter box".
Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union.
Do you think the Netherlands is not "properly independent"? Why would Scotland be different?
Because the rUK has seen what has happened in the Eurozone over the last five years and will ensure that the issues which have caused so many problems are not repeated in a sterling currency union.
Why doesn't Scotland already have its own Olympic team? It's a country, and plays independently in pretty much every other sport of any note. Maybe if it did have all this rigmarole could have been avoided. I mean Team GB? What's that? We don't have it in rugby, football or cricket.
What we will end up with is Devomax, except Scotland would have its own Olympics team, a seat in the UN and even less influence over Bank of England decision making than it does now.
One of the 'wee things' brigade; Trident, welfare, foreign wars, revenue, taxation, immigration, EU membership etc, all wee things. The point is Devo Max isn't being offered and WILL not be offered after a No vote. I bet not even a PB Libdem could tell me what the LDs recent Devolution paper consists of, and Labour and Conservative offerings will be no less diaphonous. If a semi-realistic Devo Max option was on the ballot paper this referendum would be over bar the shouting.
The Scots might need one badly but the rest of us don't. So far you've set out a negotiating position without mentioning the salient points. To date you've said that transaction costs are the big advantage, but at £500m per annum they're dwarfed by the other side of the argument the bank bail outs alone were worth 100 years of transaction costs.
To date the best observation has been Ed Balls' why would we want a CU with a country which is trying to leave it to join another CU ?
It can all be taken care of in the terms that the rUK dictates. What we will end up with is Devomax, except Scotland would have its own Olympics team, a seat in the UN and even less influence over Bank of England decision making than it does now. Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union. As you have said, a separate currency is the only way that happens. But, it seems, the SNP leadership does not like that option because of the risks it brings. Sillars, Harvie and other members of the Yes team are much more willing to accept that there are some potential short and medium term downsides to independence, but Salmond and Sturgeon clearly do not trust the Scottish people to make the right decision if they are exposed to these before 18th September.
Exactly right.
He will get devo-max (and a currency union if there is a Yes vote, which of course there won't be). It is just a shame that he has to impose a whole referendum on Scotland to get it but perhaps he wouldn't have got it otherwise.
It is a perfectly acceptable strategy except for his disingenuousness in as you say not trusting the Scottish people to understand the implications of a currency union. And of course he can't afford to tell them what is involved because aside from a few more saltires here and there, the difference between No with devo-max and Yes with a currency union is immaterial.
Why doesn't Scotland already have its own Olympic team? It's a country, and plays independently in pretty much every other sport of any note. Maybe if it did have all this rigmarole could have been avoided. I mean Team GB? What's that? We don't have it in rugby, football or cricket.
Sports politics, I guess. The England cricket team gets to choose the best players from all over the British Isles, rugby needs as many international teams as it can get, the home FAs were allowed to preserve their distinct national teams as a special concession by FIFA. I don't think that there are many other sports in which there are separate England and Scotland teams at the very highest level.
How about air traffic control? All flights from London to N.America fly initially north over Scotland. Maybe Eck could refuse airspace to flights from London until Osborne bows before him with sufficient enthusiasm.
Or what about border controls? If Scotland goes and is on the waiting list for EU then it will be a non-EU country and we'd all need passports to cross the border.
Not all flights do that, it depends on the wind speed/direction on the day, and of course the destination.
Red herring. Scotland payment of UK debt is a completely separate issue which would never be dealt with in a currency union agreement anyway - why should it? The only connection between the two is Sturgeon's threat which is about on the level of "we will find out where you live and put dog poo through your letter box".
Didn't Salmond repeat that threat today? More bluff and blustering... ;-)
Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union.
Do you think the Netherlands is not "properly independent"? Why would Scotland be different?
Because the rUK has seen what has happened in the Eurozone over the last five years and will ensure that the issues which have caused so many problems are not repeated in a sterling currency union.
So Scotland could be "properly independent" in a currency union with the Eurozone but not in a Sterling union? I find it hard to believe that the rUK government would have to push for a deal that was so much more stringent than that agreed between members of the Eurozone but as they dont even acknowledge that a deal is a possibility we may never know that their stance would be.
The English and Welsh have thought about this and they've decided they don't like the idea. None of the main three political parties is going to give way on this point.
Quite - Salmond can bluster all he want but there is a reason no CoTE has signed up to the Euro - the voters wouldn't have it.
The Brexit Prize is intended to outline Britain's actions after voting to leave the EU "covering the process of withdrawal from the EU and the post-exit repositioning of the UK in the global trading and governance systems"
What we will end up with is Devomax, except Scotland would have its own Olympics team, a seat in the UN and even less influence over Bank of England decision making than it does now.
One of the 'wee things' brigade; Trident, welfare, foreign wars, revenue, taxation, immigration, EU membership etc, all wee things. The point is Devo Max isn't being offered and WILL not be offered after a No vote. I bet not even a PB Libdem could tell me what the LDs recent Devolution paper consists of, and Labour and Conservative offerings will be no less diaphonous. If a semi-realistic Devo Max option was on the ballot paper this referendum would be over bar the shouting.
Devomax is essentially what Scotland will be getting after a Yes vote. But, yes, you are right: not getting involved in foreign wars will be an additional benefit and it may be possible to negotiate a nuclear weapons free Scotland too. But on things like tax and welfare Scotland will be as constrained as it is now because the rUK will control economic policy.
I am not saying independence would be a bad thing at all. I can see its attractions. But it strikes me that, unlike the likes of Sillars and Harvie, the SNP leadership is not telling Scottish voters what the reality will be. I can understand why: they don't trust Scots to vote Yes if the full story is told and Yes is the be all and end all. Nothing else matters.
Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union.
Do you think the Netherlands is not "properly independent"? Why would Scotland be different?
Because the rUK has seen what has happened in the Eurozone over the last five years and will ensure that the issues which have caused so many problems are not repeated in a sterling currency union.
So Scotland could be "properly independent" in a currency union with the Eurozone but not in a Sterling union? I find it hard to believe that the rUK government would have to push for a deal that was so much more stringent than that agreed between members of the Eurozone but as they dont even acknowledge that a deal is a possibility we may never know that their stance would be.
Almost certainly. If they joined the Eurozone and didn't get into any troubles (itself a gamble) then they'd be fairly independent. But the UK, always far more cautious about the problems of asymmetric shocks, would only ever agree to one if it got control over levels of taxation and expenditure.
Hockey, netball, rugby league, golf.... Pretty much most team sports??
I remember a former poster who used to get really riled about this!
I havent done a sport-by-sport analysis but my guess is that in most Olympic sports Scottish athletes tend to compete in GB / GB + NI / UK teams. It is certainly the case in the biggest / most important Olympic sports (athletics and swimming).
More generally the IOC is pretty strict about the definition of countries that can compete. I am sure there are other examples but the main case I can think of where team / national boundaries dont coincide is GB / Ireland (which is different from UK / RoI) and even then the Northern Ireland athletes are entitled to choose between the two teams.
Surely if there were no currency union English importers into Scotland would either take the hit or put up their prices. I guess Scottish importers into England would do the same. If cheaper options for consumers emerge that's capitalism for you.
But there will be a currency union.
How many votes should Scotland on the Bank of England's MPC?
To what extent should the MPC be forced to consider Scotland's economy vs, say, London or the Welsh economy?
@TogetherDarling: Alex Salmond now pretending the last week never happened. We still don't know what money we would use after independence. #indyref
Alistair Darling @A_DarlingMP 25 mins By responding to everything that happened in the last week, Salmond is pretending last week never happened. http://better.tg/1chaimo #indyref
@TogetherDarling: Alex Salmond now pretending the last week never happened. We still don't know what money we would use after independence. #indyref
Alistair Darling @A_DarlingMP 25 mins By responding to everything that happened in the last week, Salmond is pretending last week never happened. http://better.tg/1chaimo #indyref
Be careful though, blink and you can easily miss the thorough deconstruction of Osborne's speech.
Basically, Scotland can't be properly independent in a currency union.
Do you think the Netherlands is not "properly independent"? Why would Scotland be different?
Because the rUK has seen what has happened in the Eurozone over the last five years and will ensure that the issues which have caused so many problems are not repeated in a sterling currency union.
So Scotland could be "properly independent" in a currency union with the Eurozone but not in a Sterling union? I find it hard to believe that the rUK government would have to push for a deal that was so much more stringent than that agreed between members of the Eurozone but as they dont even acknowledge that a deal is a possibility we may never know that their stance would be.
Scotland would certainly be more independent in the Eurozone as it is currently structured than in any future Sterling zone. The rUK has th ebenefit of being able to see where the Eurozone went wrong and so can structure the Sterling zone to avoid those pitfalls. But, of course, the Eurozone is now moving towards much greater political and economic union, so in the future that may not be the case.
I agree that the major unionist parties are not being honest about the chances of a currency union. But then the Salmond and Sturgeon are not being honest about the consequences of one. Both sides are as bad as each other.
Surely if there were no currency union English importers into Scotland would either take the hit or put up their prices. I guess Scottish importers into England would do the same. If cheaper options for consumers emerge that's capitalism for you.
But there will be a currency union.
How many votes should Scotland on the Bank of England's MPC?
To what extent should the MPC be forced to consider Scotland's economy vs, say, London or the Welsh economy?
And why?
The rUK will decide these things and let the Scots know.
Comments
I work near Basingstoke, and the opinion of most people I've spoken to is that she should have been bloody well capable of commuting from there, like plenty of people around here do.
What we have here are resignations forced by being caught.
[and, face facts, you don't get to be an MP by being principled, but by being duplicitous, treacherous and conniving]
(I've not followed the details so I've no opinion myself, by the way.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26220638
Didn't catch Salmond's speech. Did he deconstruct Osborne's various points on currency union, or did he gasp in horror, aghast that an Englishman expressed an opinion which was unhelpful?
http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1169-european-human-rights-regime-stopping-record-number-of-foreign-criminals-from-being-deported
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/alex-salmond-attacks-campaign-rhetoric-with-a-george-tax/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=alex-salmond-attacks-campaign-rhetoric-with-a-george-tax&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Short version; "I'm right, you're all wrong, and what's more he's English. Oh, and if I don't get what I want I'm not paying my bills."
Masterpiece of statesmanship and diplomacy.....
You were expecting him to set out the nineteen precedents where successor states and seceding states entered long term currency unions?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/14/goldman_sachs_on_oligopolistic_mergers.html
'Given the ongoing European sovereign debt crisis, is Salmond really expecting anyone to believe that a small transaction cost for the small share of business going across Hadrian's wall is worth the huge financial risks of a currency union for every business in the country?'
Given that Salmond wants an independent Scotland to eventually join the EU (however long that takes) & new EU members are forced to join the €uro,business in rUK will get the transaction cost anyway.
Lender of last resort concerns?
The requirement for stringent fiscal limits, which would be contrary to a spirit of independence?
The fact it would require the agreement of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but all the major parties are opposed?
Also, was there any suggestion of an alternative policy? Because the current position appears to be "We can vote to be independent and then dictate to the country we just left that we'll share their currency". That's not necessarily entirely consistent with reason.
Last day of school term in London boroughs appears to be Friday 4th April - I imagine they'll be doing everything they can to have the line open in time for that.
I asked a straight question about Salmond describing Osborne as 'English', complete PB body swerve thus far.
To have Westminster politicians lecture the Scots on what London will permit just drives home the point. It would certainly encourage me to vote for Independence, had I the vote.
Whatever the outcome of the IndyRef, will the result be a trigger for electoral and constitutional reform for the UK/RUK
'Ah, the PB Unionist universal translator, Babblepish. Wonderful the strange constructions it comes up with.'
Was Jim Sillars description of a currency union as 'stupidity on stilts' a split in the Yes camp or just Babblepish?
But there will be a currency union.
'Surely if there were no currency union English importers into Scotland'
Don't you mean exporters.
You're winning!
If you propose to me an arrangement whereby you and I set up a joint bank account, I regret that I will decline the suggestion.
Is that really lecturing you?
So you keep telling us, Mr Observer. You don't seem too keen on repeating why there should be such a Union. Perhaps you would care to give us an insight into your reasoning.
Then perhaps you can tell me who 4 days ago re. No position on currency union said: 'This is entirely political and of course consistent with the unionist campaign. This is negative, it is about spreading fears and scare stories. What we require from the unionist parties is a bit of statesmanship and quite frankly their behaviour so far falls well short of that.'
I'll give you a clue, he's currently voting No.
If you PM me I'll tell you where to send the bottle of vintage Scotch. Thanks.
Even if Scotland remained in NATO, would the organisation want to have their only ship-to-shore bombardment range in northern Europe, and the only place they can land live 1,000-pound bombs, in a country that is in half a mind to leave?
I suspect that most Scots, remember the nats represent a minority, understand why we are saying these things now rather than allowing uncertainty to develop as the referendum nears.
(1) have a currency union on the rUK's terms; or
(2) do not have a currency union and come up with an alternative that will allow Scotland to pay its agreed share of the UK's debt.
And that's it.
Would be weird if the ruling party were ruling an independent country that it thought should be part of a union wouldn't it? specially as the other side of the the border wanted a union as well
Not surprised that she was in favour of press controls, journalists asking silly questions about her interesting expense claims.
To date the best observation has been Ed Balls' why would we want a CU with a country which is trying to leave it to join another CU ?
The SNP should definitely finance a film with that name, subtitled Winning the YES campaign one hot voter at a time!
*Except for where the border suddenly darts south into England for a short distance, , goes east-ish, and then disappears back north into the middle of the river. Apparently a Scots and an English village used to play the mediaeval or post-m equivalent of footy, and the winners 'owned' the pitch till the next year. And it just so happened that the Scots won the last game ... no idea if it is true but I like the story!
PS. Do I win the 'new and original comment' prize?
Scotland leaves the UK, but the EU withdrawal referendum doesn't happen. Scotland, desperate for a currency union, bends over backwards to accommodate UK concerns, as per Southam's scenario. An agreement is done where Scotland is under strict revenue and expenditure limits, approved yearly by a body where 90% of representation is from the UK. This is a much more rigorous system than the Eurozone, which continues to find it politically impossible to pass the much needed reforms. Scotland also manages to hang on to EU membership. In such a situation, you would have two currency unions within the EU, one working much more effectively than the other, especially as the sterling zone is likely to have higher growth. In such a situation, would other countries start becoming more interested in the sterling zone than the eurozone? Notably Ireland, which is already in a free passport area with the UK and Scotland...
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2014-02-14/Currency union.png
The English and Welsh have thought about this and they've decided they don't like the idea. None of the main three political parties is going to give way on this point.
Or what about border controls? If Scotland goes and is on the waiting list for EU then it will be a non-EU country and we'd all need passports to cross the border.
Why doesn't Scotland already have its own Olympic team? It's a country, and plays independently in pretty much every other sport of any note. Maybe if it did have all this rigmarole could have been avoided. I mean Team GB? What's that? We don't have it in rugby, football or cricket.
The point is Devo Max isn't being offered and WILL not be offered after a No vote. I bet not even a PB Libdem could tell me what the LDs recent Devolution paper consists of, and Labour and Conservative offerings will be no less diaphonous. If a semi-realistic Devo Max option was on the ballot paper this referendum would be over bar the shouting.
He will get devo-max (and a currency union if there is a Yes vote, which of course there won't be). It is just a shame that he has to impose a whole referendum on Scotland to get it but perhaps he wouldn't have got it otherwise.
It is a perfectly acceptable strategy except for his disingenuousness in as you say not trusting the Scottish people to understand the implications of a currency union. And of course he can't afford to tell them what is involved because aside from a few more saltires here and there, the difference between No with devo-max and Yes with a currency union is immaterial.
Hockey, netball, rugby league, golf.... Pretty much most team sports??
http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit
This might help the SNP form an independence scenario that doesn't rely on EU membership.
The winner will be announced in April.
I am not saying independence would be a bad thing at all. I can see its attractions. But it strikes me that, unlike the likes of Sillars and Harvie, the SNP leadership is not telling Scottish voters what the reality will be. I can understand why: they don't trust Scots to vote Yes if the full story is told and Yes is the be all and end all. Nothing else matters.
Joins Brown in the "heavyweight brilliant political operators" of the Scottish left camp who when it came to the crunch weren't up to much.
I havent done a sport-by-sport analysis but my guess is that in most Olympic sports Scottish athletes tend to compete in GB / GB + NI / UK teams. It is certainly the case in the biggest / most important Olympic sports (athletics and swimming).
More generally the IOC is pretty strict about the definition of countries that can compete. I am sure there are other examples but the main case I can think of where team / national boundaries dont coincide is GB / Ireland (which is different from UK / RoI) and even then the Northern Ireland athletes are entitled to choose between the two teams.
To what extent should the MPC be forced to consider Scotland's economy vs, say, London or the Welsh economy?
And why?
By responding to everything that happened in the last week, Salmond is pretending last week never happened. http://better.tg/1chaimo #indyref
I agree that the major unionist parties are not being honest about the chances of a currency union. But then the Salmond and Sturgeon are not being honest about the consequences of one. Both sides are as bad as each other.