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A reminder. The Tory Party is the party of law and order – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited October 2023 in General
A reminder. The Tory Party is the party of law and order – politicalbetting.com

Big exclusive from @legalhackette Jonathan Ames & @matt_dathanRapists and burglars will be spared jail from next week after judges told prisons are fullCrown court judges ordered to delay sentencing hearings as prison population hits bursting pointhttps://t.co/wKDd6E50Yf

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    edited October 2023
    one 60th of a minute
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,073

    Carnyx said:

    Convicted rapists and burglars will be spared jail from next week after judges were told that the country’s prisons are full.

    Crown court judges have been ordered to delay sentencing hearings, The Times has learnt, as the prison population has reached bursting point.

    Lord Edis, the senior presiding judge for England and Wales, has ordered that sentencing of convicted criminals who are currently on bail should be delayed from Monday,

    The Times also understands, from crown court judges who have been issued with the guidance, that as soon as next week some prisoners will also be released early under proposals from justice ministers.

    In a meeting held remotely between Edis — a Court of Appeal judge who was promoted to the senior administrative position over the crown courts a year ago — and senior judges it emerged that cells in magistrates’ courts are to be used to hold suspects accused of the most serious crimes who are remanded in custody.

    One senior crown court judge said that from Monday, judges have been “ordered/strongly encouraged” not to send to prison a defendant who appears before them on bail so as not to add to the prison population.

    The judge said: “We have been told that this is a ‘short-term measure’, but nobody knows what that means.”

    The judge added that the “biggest concern” was defendants charged with historic rape or rape of a child under 13 and other sexual assault, as even if convicted they are now likely to remain on bail.

    “What am I going to do if a jury finds someone guilty [of rape],” asked the judge, adding: “Do I release that person who is now convicted back into the community, where the victim might see them? What will the victim think?”

    Figures from the Ministry of Justice showed that as of last Friday, the prison population in England and Wales was 88,016, just a few hundred below what officials have said is the estate’s capacity of about 88,670.

    Ministry officials published a report earlier this year that predicted that the prison population was set to rise to 94,400 by spring 2025 and more than 106,000 by 2027.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/judges-told-not-to-jail-rapists-as-prisons-are-full-2tfgb2czs

    Hmm. So the Tories knew about this well before promising to bang up certain categories forever? But admittedly the promised and still hypothetical new rule wouldn't make an actual difference for some time.
    This poster was true.


    Not it isn't, the government is just incompetent and has not been funding justice sufficiently since even the days of the Coalition, so it cannot do what it does want.

    I bet it can be tied to NIMBYism somehow too.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    Comment by Neil Monnery, Betfred on the Mid Beds election:-

    "When you speak to people on the ground (and yes, activists from all parties will say the canvassing is going great, that is par for the course) but the feeling seems to be that Labour think they are on the right path, the Tories know their vote will collapse but are still hopeful, whilst the Lib Dems are still working it extremely hard.

    On the face of it that may seem like it is Labour who deservedly get the favourites spot but as anyone who has followed Liberal Democrat by-election campaigning, when the party are still going all out ten days out from polling day, they are quietly confident of getting the win. There has been no withdrawal of funds or a realisation that it is slipping away. Clearly the by-election specialists are still thinking the game is very much on.

    Another (albeit very unscientific) approach is to see what social media is saying. A quick search on the platform formally known as Twitter for Mid Bedfordshire by-election terminology shows that probably 50-60% of posts from activists in the constituency are actually Lib Dems.

    Labour are next up with a fair few Tories still out there hoping for a split in the vote, allowing them to slip right through the middle. That might mean nothing at all but seeing so many supporters for Emma Holland-Lindsay still turning out in their droves from across the country is noteworthy.

    Anyone who has been an avid by-election watcher knows that there are still plenty of minds to be made up in the coming days. In this situation, it is pretty clear that there is significant anger about how the former MP acted and her decision to quit.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    "Dent any recovery" assumes there was any recovery to dent in the first place. I think, unless my political radar is completely out, that we'll see a small Labour bounce after this week's conference. It may largely be at the expense of Lib Dems (not Greens, who may pick up a bit of a Palestine vote from disaffected Corbynites) but may chip away a bit at Tory VI too.

    Cement their doom might be the right words here. It's the same dynamic that is going to see them punished for failing on small boats. If the Tory party can't even do very Toryish things well, like banging people up and deporting foreigners, then why would even their core vote bother?
  • Rory Stewart Attempts to Explain the History of Israel-Palestine in 10 Minutes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAs5EOBUDcs

    The Rest is Politics.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    theakes said:

    Comment by Neil Monnery, Betfred on the Mid Beds election:-

    "When you speak to people on the ground (and yes, activists from all parties will say the canvassing is going great, that is par for the course) but the feeling seems to be that Labour think they are on the right path, the Tories know their vote will collapse but are still hopeful, whilst the Lib Dems are still working it extremely hard.

    On the face of it that may seem like it is Labour who deservedly get the favourites spot but as anyone who has followed Liberal Democrat by-election campaigning, when the party are still going all out ten days out from polling day, they are quietly confident of getting the win. There has been no withdrawal of funds or a realisation that it is slipping away. Clearly the by-election specialists are still thinking the game is very much on.

    Another (albeit very unscientific) approach is to see what social media is saying. A quick search on the platform formally known as Twitter for Mid Bedfordshire by-election terminology shows that probably 50-60% of posts from activists in the constituency are actually Lib Dems.

    Labour are next up with a fair few Tories still out there hoping for a split in the vote, allowing them to slip right through the middle. That might mean nothing at all but seeing so many supporters for Emma Holland-Lindsay still turning out in their droves from across the country is noteworthy.

    Anyone who has been an avid by-election watcher knows that there are still plenty of minds to be made up in the coming days. In this situation, it is pretty clear that there is significant anger about how the former MP acted and her decision to quit.

    Most fun state of affairs during the count would be for all the coverage to say it's too close to call, then go to a series of recounts, and only once the final result is in do we find out that it was too close to call between Labour and Lib Dems, with the conservatives in distant third (or better still 4th behind the independent).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Rory Stewart Attempts to Explain the History of Israel-Palestine in 10 Minutes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAs5EOBUDcs

    The Rest is Politics.

    I daresay that's very good, but I cannot stand listening to the odious piece of humanity that is Alastair Campbell. He is a really nasty piece of work.
  • How long is it since we were praising Michael Gove for reinstating prisoners' library cards while also noting he'd left behind a shortage of places?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited October 2023
    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    theakes said:

    Comment by Neil Monnery, Betfred on the Mid Beds election:-

    "When you speak to people on the ground (and yes, activists from all parties will say the canvassing is going great, that is par for the course) but the feeling seems to be that Labour think they are on the right path, the Tories know their vote will collapse but are still hopeful, whilst the Lib Dems are still working it extremely hard.

    On the face of it that may seem like it is Labour who deservedly get the favourites spot but as anyone who has followed Liberal Democrat by-election campaigning, when the party are still going all out ten days out from polling day, they are quietly confident of getting the win. There has been no withdrawal of funds or a realisation that it is slipping away. Clearly the by-election specialists are still thinking the game is very much on.

    Another (albeit very unscientific) approach is to see what social media is saying. A quick search on the platform formally known as Twitter for Mid Bedfordshire by-election terminology shows that probably 50-60% of posts from activists in the constituency are actually Lib Dems.

    Labour are next up with a fair few Tories still out there hoping for a split in the vote, allowing them to slip right through the middle. That might mean nothing at all but seeing so many supporters for Emma Holland-Lindsay still turning out in their droves from across the country is noteworthy.

    Anyone who has been an avid by-election watcher knows that there are still plenty of minds to be made up in the coming days. In this situation, it is pretty clear that there is significant anger about how the former MP acted and her decision to quit.

    Bookmaker keen to drum up bets for the LibDems and not one of the parties that might win. I’m shocked.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    Understand last weekend Lib Dems had over 300 workers in the Mid Beds seat, knocked on 11,000 doors, spoke to almost 5,500 residents and delivered over 40,000 leaflets. Gosh. What will it be this weekend? The mind boggles.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Reason 1001 why the Tories are buggered
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited October 2023
    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-latest-hamas-palestine-sky-news-live-blog-12978800
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Also, from page 14 of today's Times:

    "Labour has vowed to change the law to stop shoplifters who steal goods worth less than £200 escaping with a fine."
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    It’s the Red Baron, watch out Biggles.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
  • Andy_JS said:

    Also, from page 14 of today's Times:

    "Labour has vowed to change the law to stop shoplifters who steal goods worth less than £200 escaping with a fine."

    Labour will jail small-scale shoplifters in Rwanda. Since they are mostly not prosecuted in the first place, it is all smoke and mirrors.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    That is quite a remarkable turnaround. Well done BJO your boy Rishi must have impressed at the conference last week. Good speech for levelling up in Southern England.
  • Look we have tried years of namby pamby liberal lefty Home Secretaries like Braverman, Patel, May and look at our criminal justice system now. Surely it is beyond time to give the Conservative party a chance to fix what has been broken by the metropolitan elite?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,881
    edited October 2023
    deleted
  • FPT

    Leon said:

    If Israel is simultaneously attacked from Gaza, the Lebanon and the West Bank (and perhaps from within its own Arab population) then it is in deep trouble

    It is not. Netanyahu advised Biden that he will use nukes, Biden sends in Gerald Ford. Ultimately the only way we get into deep trouble is if this ends up as US vs Russia using Israeli and Iranian proxies.
    How is Israel going to use nukes against somewhere separated from Israel by a wire fence that was knocked down a few days back?
    Hamas = Iran. Hezbollah = Iran. Threaten to nuke Iran to cut off support for the terrorists at source. That would get America's intention. Especially as Trump would probably back it.
    The current lunatic right conspiracy theory runs as follows:

    The US/NWO want an excuse to attack Iran.
    There is no way that Hamas could have done all that planning and training without Mossad and the CIA knowing about it.
    Therefore the US and Israel knew what was going to happen and allowed it to happen (or even encouraged it covertly).
    This gives Israel an excuse to clear Gaza and draw Iran into a wider conflict.
    This gives the US an excuse to get involved supporting Israel in an attack on Iran.

    This is Qanon Pizzagate levels of lunacy but it is widespread amongst the Trump supporting types over the last few days.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Andy_JS said:

    Also, from page 14 of today's Times:

    "Labour has vowed to change the law to stop shoplifters who steal goods worth less than £200 escaping with a fine."

    Labour need to be careful in case they lose the support of the Observer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/06/uk-prison-crisis-damages-justice-society-and-prisoners
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938
    On topic, an interesting question would be whether or not prison building has kept up with the rise in the population over the last 20 years. We know that the building of homes, hospitals, schools, motorways, train lines, etc, hasn't kept pace with the population increase, so I thought it'd be interesting to get the numbers for prison capacity.

    The only dataset I can find starts in Jun 2011 and goes to Jun 2022, for "prison operational capacity" here - https://data.justice.gov.uk/prisons/offender-management#prison-opcap

    Prison Capacity, June 2011: 87,902.
    Prison Capacity, Jun, 2022: 82,857.

    UK Population, 2011: 63.26m
    UK Population, 2022: 67.50m

    So prison capacity has fallen by 5.7% during an 11 year period in which population has increased by 6.7%.

    A reminder that "build, build, build" doesn't just apply to houses, it applies to absolutely everything else.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    Hm. Conference unbounce?. Given that the LP Conference started on 8 October, I'm not persuaded that polling conducted on 7 October indicates a negative reaction to either Conference or Starmer's speech.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
  • Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    From the election that Corbyn lost?

    I make it a 6% Con to Lab swing since then.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    Wait until folk learn about the prison situation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137
    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    In the national polls there's been a small drop in the Labour share recently, but it hasn't gone to the Tories. Minor parties have benefited. But since the Tory share has stayed roughly the same the Labour lead has declined slightly.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited October 2023

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    It’s like a Tory boasting in 1998 that Major won the 1992 election (with, lest we forget, the largest absolute vote of any winning party in decades). Equally bonkers.

    Actually more bonkers, because Corbyn lost. Major did actually manage a win.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Elizabeth line came up on here the other day. I missed this back in July, but TfL have done a really good study into where the demand is coming from:

    https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s20504/elc-20230725-part-1-item10-elizabeth-line-passenger-usage-insight.pdf

    "New journeys" are much higher than expected, though it's hard to tell how much of that is due to the line accelerating the COVID recovery (e.g. more days in the office).
  • How long is it since we were praising Michael Gove for reinstating prisoners' library cards while also noting he'd left behind a shortage of places?

    The prison population dropped throughout Gove's period as Justice Minister (which was only 14 months and was 7 years ago) and continued to drop for some time after he left. There have been 8 more Justice Secretaries since he left who have overseen a rapid increase in prison population.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129
    Andy_JS said:

    Also, from page 14 of today's Times:

    "Labour has vowed to change the law to stop shoplifters who steal goods worth less than £200 escaping with a fine."

    That's your vote secured, Andy, isn't it?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    How long is it since we were praising Michael Gove for reinstating prisoners' library cards while also noting he'd left behind a shortage of places?

    The prison population dropped throughout Gove's period as Justice Minister (which was only 14 months and was 7 years ago) and continued to drop for some time after he left. There have been 8 more Justice Secretaries since he left who have overseen a rapid increase in prison population.
    What was he doing to the inmates?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited October 2023

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    This is potentially slightly misleading. The R&W Blue Wall poll defines Blue Wall as:

    "The 42 parliamentary constituencies that:

    1) Are located in the South of England.
    2) The Conservative Party won in 2019, 2017, and 2015.
    3) Have a 25% or more population of university-degree holders.
    4) Had a Remain vote share greater than 42.5%
    5) The Conservative Party won in 2019 by less than 15,000 votes over the Liberal Democrats or by less than 10,000 votes over Labour."

    So it includes a significant number of seats where Labour were second and is NOT a Tory/Lib Dem marginal poll (although it does include some of these). To name just a few, it includes Chingford, Hendon, Reading West, both Milton Keynes seats etc.

    You are certainly right that the Tories won ALL these seats (and won them from 2015 onwards), and indeed the tweet notes this is a 12.5% swing to Labour - which is substantial. It's also the case that across the 42 seats, Labour were narrowly third in 2019.

    But a lot of these are seats where Labour was second in 2019.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    If, if and if.

    "If" I hadn't missed the boat train from Victoria, I'd have conquered Everest.
  • biggles said:

    How long is it since we were praising Michael Gove for reinstating prisoners' library cards while also noting he'd left behind a shortage of places?

    The prison population dropped throughout Gove's period as Justice Minister (which was only 14 months and was 7 years ago) and continued to drop for some time after he left. There have been 8 more Justice Secretaries since he left who have overseen a rapid increase in prison population.
    What was he doing to the inmates?
    Eating them?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    If, if and if.

    "If" I hadn't missed the boat train from Victoria, I'd have conquered Everest.
    I have begun watching the Netflix documentary on the 2015 Nepalese earthquake with plenty of Everest footage.

    It reminded me to renew my strong commitment never to climb Everest.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    The Blue Wall will always move back to the Tories so that’s not a surprise . They certainly wont like Starmers anti NIMBY planning changes . Labour would be overjoyed if they even managed 30% in that Blue Wall .
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Igor Molotov, RT’s Special Editor, wrote, “It was I who advised detonating a thermonuclear bomb over Siberia. I apologize. It should explode over Israel.”
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1712147224086368363

    I thought Russia said all the Nazis were in Ukraine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,073
    AlistairM said:

    Igor Molotov, RT’s Special Editor, wrote, “It was I who advised detonating a thermonuclear bomb over Siberia. I apologize. It should explode over Israel.”
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1712147224086368363

    I thought Russia said all the Nazis were in Ukraine.

    They see them everywhere, as you'd expect when some are in their midst.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,577
    AlistairM said:

    Igor Molotov, RT’s Special Editor, wrote, “It was I who advised detonating a thermonuclear bomb over Siberia. I apologize. It should explode over Israel.”
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1712147224086368363

    I thought Russia said all the Nazis were in Ukraine.

    There have been many meltdowns today:

    https://twitter.com/BarbaraRich_law/status/1712035565263032773
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
    Translating...

    36 x F/A-18E - plane on Top Gun: Maverick
    12 x F/A-18F - plane that carries fuel for other planes
    5 x EA-18G - plane that stops the bad guys launching missiles at you
    5 x E-2D - plane that knows where the bad guys are
    8 x MH-60S - helicopter that rescues people
    11 x MH-60R - helicopter that drops torpedoes on submarines
    2 x C-2A - plane that brings food and fuel to people

    This clip from Top Gun: Maverick shows a dialogue between an E2-D (Comanche) and F/A-18 (Dagger One)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCFdQObeHg&t=89s
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
    Translating...

    36 x F/A-18E - plane on Top Gun: Maverick
    12 x F/A-18F - plane that carries fuel for other planes
    5 x EA-18G - plane that stops the bad guys launching missiles at you
    5 x E-2D - plane that knows where the bad guys are
    8 x MH-60S - helicopter that rescues people
    11 x MH-60R - helicopter that drops torpedoes on submarines
    2 x C-2A - plane that brings food and fuel to people

    This clip from Top Gun: Maverick shows a dialogue between an E2-D (Comanche) and F/A-18 (Dagger One)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCFdQObeHg&t=89s
    I think the F/A 18 Tankers are also pretty good at hitting things at ground level.
  • Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    All 42 of the seats in the Blue Wall poll were won by the Conservatives in 2017. One of the criteria for inclusion in the poll is that they were blue in 2015, 2017 and 2019.

    So this isn't covering ANY seats Corbyn won even in his "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" heyday, and Starmer winning any of them would be better than Corbyn did in either of his two General Election defeats.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,073
    rcs1000 said:

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    I know Corbyn fans like to pretend 2019 never happened but it did. Boris Johnson went into the election without a majority and came away with a big one.

    Equal biggest drop in the opposition's seat number since WW2: Labour or Conservative.

    Edit to add: the 60 drop in Labour's seat total is tied with Michael Foot in 1983.
    I will never understand, even if I live to 150, why the 2017 election is so lionised.

    Expectations were exceeded, but the party still lost. So there are high points to draw on, but it obviously was not enough, and was followed by bigger failure.

    I don't think anyone has an issue recognising that 2017 happened (despite that being the confusing accusation), and against what people thought would happen represented a good result for Corbyn. But what good does it do to endlessly celebrate an increase in the vote that did not get them over the line as if that is all you need? If Sunak leads the Tories to hold onto largest party status but not enough to stay in power will his supporters bang on about that forevermore?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
    Translating...

    36 x F/A-18E - plane on Top Gun: Maverick
    12 x F/A-18F - plane that carries fuel for other planes
    5 x EA-18G - plane that stops the bad guys launching missiles at you
    5 x E-2D - plane that knows where the bad guys are
    8 x MH-60S - helicopter that rescues people
    11 x MH-60R - helicopter that drops torpedoes on submarines
    2 x C-2A - plane that brings food and fuel to people

    This clip from Top Gun: Maverick shows a dialogue between an E2-D (Comanche) and F/A-18 (Dagger One)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCFdQObeHg&t=89s
    I think the F/A 18 Tankers are also pretty good at hitting things at ground level.
    Well yes, but PB be simple folk that can't be understanding fancy-dan stuff :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    I know Corbyn fans like to pretend 2019 never happened but it did. Boris Johnson went into the election without a majority and came away with a big one.

    Equal biggest drop in the opposition's seat number since WW2: Labour or Conservative.

    Edit to add: the 60 drop in Labour's seat total is tied with Michael Foot in 1983.
    I will never understand, even if I live to 150, why the 2017 election is so lionised.

    Expectations were exceeded, but the party still lost. So there are high points to draw on, but it obviously was not enough, and was followed by bigger failure.

    I don't think anyone has an issue recognising that 2017 happened (despite that being the confusing accusation), and against what people thought would happen represented a good result for Corbyn. But what good does it do to endlessly celebrate an increase in the vote that did not get them over the line as if that is all you need? If Sunak leads the Tories to hold onto largest party status but not enough to stay in power will his supporters bang on about that forevermore?
    Just wait until @bigjohnowls hears about the 1997 General Election!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    Yep. 17 was a great result no question. Caused me to join up. Hope renewed. Felt like a win. Kind of was a win. Churlish of people to deny it. But then came the horror of 19. That can't be denied either. Time for a change. Enter SKS. And hasn't he just nailed it. Lucky, yes, but you can only beat what's in front of you, and boy is he ever doing that. Landslide coming.

    I'm on board bettingwise, as a party member, as a voter, and (most importantly) as a citizen. I have just this minute ordered my Sparkle With Starmer tee shirt from the club shop. I suggest you put your debilitating grudge aside and do the same. If you give me your size and colour I'd be happy to put it on my account.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,073
    edited October 2023
    carnforth said:

    AlistairM said:

    Igor Molotov, RT’s Special Editor, wrote, “It was I who advised detonating a thermonuclear bomb over Siberia. I apologize. It should explode over Israel.”
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1712147224086368363

    I thought Russia said all the Nazis were in Ukraine.

    There have been many meltdowns today:

    https://twitter.com/BarbaraRich_law/status/1712035565263032773
    A lot of people do get revealed in these situations, it's far beyond misspeaking in the heat of the moment. Sincere, horrible beliefs that are usually covered with slick language are exposed.

    Then the people saying it cry about being criticised, because mean tweets hurt dontchaknow, that's the real moral outrage.*

    *or they in fact get to continue on in whatever job they had in the first place without criticism of course.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
    Translating...

    36 x F/A-18E - plane on Top Gun: Maverick
    12 x F/A-18F - plane that carries fuel for other planes
    5 x EA-18G - plane that stops the bad guys launching missiles at you
    5 x E-2D - plane that knows where the bad guys are
    8 x MH-60S - helicopter that rescues people
    11 x MH-60R - helicopter that drops torpedoes on submarines
    2 x C-2A - plane that brings food and fuel to people

    This clip from Top Gun: Maverick shows a dialogue between an E2-D (Comanche) and F/A-18 (Dagger One)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCFdQObeHg&t=89s
    I think the F/A 18 Tankers are also pretty good at hitting things at ground level.
    It is certainly recommended that aircraft remain above ground level when in flight. First line of the instruction manual.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    kyf_100 said:

    On topic, an interesting question would be whether or not prison building has kept up with the rise in the population over the last 20 years. We know that the building of homes, hospitals, schools, motorways, train lines, etc, hasn't kept pace with the population increase, so I thought it'd be interesting to get the numbers for prison capacity.

    The only dataset I can find starts in Jun 2011 and goes to Jun 2022, for "prison operational capacity" here - https://data.justice.gov.uk/prisons/offender-management#prison-opcap

    Prison Capacity, June 2011: 87,902.
    Prison Capacity, Jun, 2022: 82,857.

    UK Population, 2011: 63.26m
    UK Population, 2022: 67.50m

    So prison capacity has fallen by 5.7% during an 11 year period in which population has increased by 6.7%.

    A reminder that "build, build, build" doesn't just apply to houses, it applies to absolutely everything else.

    We are now years past the 'Prison Works' doctrine of Michael Howard. The proper conservative position is that, by now, the 'Prison Works' doctrine would be so effective that there would be far fewer prisoners because far fewer serious crimes are being committed.

    What the public actually want is fewer in prison because policing, prosecution, sentencing and rehabilitation has for years already been so effective that crime isn't a big issue.

    Are we nearly there yet? Asking for a friend.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137
    algarkirk said:

    kyf_100 said:

    On topic, an interesting question would be whether or not prison building has kept up with the rise in the population over the last 20 years. We know that the building of homes, hospitals, schools, motorways, train lines, etc, hasn't kept pace with the population increase, so I thought it'd be interesting to get the numbers for prison capacity.

    The only dataset I can find starts in Jun 2011 and goes to Jun 2022, for "prison operational capacity" here - https://data.justice.gov.uk/prisons/offender-management#prison-opcap

    Prison Capacity, June 2011: 87,902.
    Prison Capacity, Jun, 2022: 82,857.

    UK Population, 2011: 63.26m
    UK Population, 2022: 67.50m

    So prison capacity has fallen by 5.7% during an 11 year period in which population has increased by 6.7%.

    A reminder that "build, build, build" doesn't just apply to houses, it applies to absolutely everything else.

    We are now years past the 'Prison Works' doctrine of Michael Howard. The proper conservative position is that, by now, the 'Prison Works' doctrine would be so effective that there would be far fewer prisoners because far fewer serious crimes are being committed.

    What the public actually want is fewer in prison because policing, prosecution, sentencing and rehabilitation has for years already been so effective that crime isn't a big issue.

    Are we nearly there yet? Asking for a friend.
    Innocent people not yet found guilty, held on remand: Just under 15,000 .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,073
    On Russia, the man himself knows what he is talking about.

    The purpose of propaganda is not to make you believe something. It is to make you believe nothing. So that you do nothing.
    https://nitter.net/DarthPutinKGB/status/1711308852740722692#m
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    What someone who was involved once told me was that actually it is very difficult to get sent to jail. The courts will try most every avenue to avoid it and you have to be very determined to end up in prison. Despite the various Daily Mail/Mirror headlines.

    What that says about the price of eggs goodness only knows but it would appear that our lily-livered criminal justice system is overwhelmed by actual criminals.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    I know Corbyn fans like to pretend 2019 never happened but it did. Boris Johnson went into the election without a majority and came away with a big one.

    Equal biggest drop in the opposition's seat number since WW2: Labour or Conservative.

    Edit to add: the 60 drop in Labour's seat total is tied with Michael Foot in 1983.
    I will never understand, even if I live to 150, why the 2017 election is so lionised.

    Expectations were exceeded, but the party still lost. So there are high points to draw on, but it obviously was not enough, and was followed by bigger failure.

    I don't think anyone has an issue recognising that 2017 happened (despite that being the confusing accusation), and against what people thought would happen represented a good result for Corbyn. But what good does it do to endlessly celebrate an increase in the vote that did not get them over the line as if that is all you need? If Sunak leads the Tories to hold onto largest party status but not enough to stay in power will his supporters bang on about that forevermore?
    Just wait until @bigjohnowls hears about the 1997 General Election!
    I don't expect him to be a source of sunshine on the day after GE 24 either.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    ...
    algarkirk said:

    kyf_100 said:

    On topic, an interesting question would be whether or not prison building has kept up with the rise in the population over the last 20 years. We know that the building of homes, hospitals, schools, motorways, train lines, etc, hasn't kept pace with the population increase, so I thought it'd be interesting to get the numbers for prison capacity.

    The only dataset I can find starts in Jun 2011 and goes to Jun 2022, for "prison operational capacity" here - https://data.justice.gov.uk/prisons/offender-management#prison-opcap

    Prison Capacity, June 2011: 87,902.
    Prison Capacity, Jun, 2022: 82,857.

    UK Population, 2011: 63.26m
    UK Population, 2022: 67.50m

    So prison capacity has fallen by 5.7% during an 11 year period in which population has increased by 6.7%.

    A reminder that "build, build, build" doesn't just apply to houses, it applies to absolutely everything else.

    We are now years past the 'Prison Works' doctrine of Michael Howard. The proper conservative position is that, by now, the 'Prison Works' doctrine would be so effective that there would be far fewer prisoners because far fewer serious crimes are being committed.

    What the public actually want is fewer in prison because policing, prosecution, sentencing and rehabilitation has for years already been so effective that crime isn't a big issue.

    Are we nearly there yet? Asking for a friend.
    It works in the most utilitarian sense by taking criminals out of circulation, and punishing them for their crimes. Rehabilitation into a blameless and fulfilling post-prison life is a bonus.

    We should build prisons in Sub-Saharan Africa for violent criminals.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    I thought they were already about 4 to a cell on average?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Israel reporting hostile aircraft entered airspace from Lebanon

    On topic will any of these stories get airtime with the Israel war dominating the media

    Pardon? Hostile aircraft?
    Israel words
    Oh yes, I get that, but whose?

    Hopefully this is all fog of war and minor incursions to poke the bear. If Israel was really attacked substantially from more than one front, the west wound have to consider direct support.
    Militant groups opened a second front in their war with Israel today, sending drones and paragliders carrying militants over the border from Lebanon and Syria.

    Sirens sounded in settlements across northern Israel as residents were warned of a significant infiltration, with “hostile aircraft” entering from Lebanon.

    Drones were also approaching from Syria, where Iran-backed militias including Hezbollah have been building facilities targeted at Israel in recent years.

    Hamas, which has launched five days of rocket and gun attacks from the southern Gaza strip, also said it had shelled the northern Israeli city of Haifa. There were no immediate reports of casualties.

    A spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces said Israel was now facing war “on three fronts”....

    ...It was not immediately clear who the presumed attackers were. Palestinian militant groups including both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also have bases in southern Lebanon.

    It is unlikely they would stage an assault without the approval of Hezbollah, however.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-war-hamas-latest-news-gaza-updates-dmptn2hdb
    Getting in before the Yanks arrive, onc ethat carrier group gets there they will be toast.
    The Ford has...

    36 x F/A-18E (Strike/A2A)
    12 x F/A-18F (Strike/Tanker)
    5 x EA-18G (Suppression of Air Defence/Electronic Warfare)
    5 x E-2D (AWACS)
    8 x MH-60S (Replenishment/SAR/Sea Control)
    11 x MH-60R (Maritime Strike)
    2 x C-2A (Shore Replenishment)

    That's a full set of golf clubs.
    Translating...

    36 x F/A-18E - plane on Top Gun: Maverick
    12 x F/A-18F - plane that carries fuel for other planes
    5 x EA-18G - plane that stops the bad guys launching missiles at you
    5 x E-2D - plane that knows where the bad guys are
    8 x MH-60S - helicopter that rescues people
    11 x MH-60R - helicopter that drops torpedoes on submarines
    2 x C-2A - plane that brings food and fuel to people

    This clip from Top Gun: Maverick shows a dialogue between an E2-D (Comanche) and F/A-18 (Dagger One)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCFdQObeHg&t=89s
    I think the F/A 18 Tankers are also pretty good at hitting things at ground level.
    It is certainly recommended that aircraft remain above ground level when in flight. First line of the instruction manual.
    Omitted from the F104-Starfighter, if memory serves. However served well in its secondary role as lawn dart. The Canadians used it (a very fast high-altitude unmaneuverable interceptor) as a ground-attack aircraft. The West Germans just cut out the middle man and flew it into the ground.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    Yep. 17 was a great result no question. Caused me to join up. Hope renewed. Felt like a win. Kind of was a win. Churlish of people to deny it. But then came the horror of 19. That can't be denied either. Time for a change. Enter SKS. And hasn't he just nailed it. Lucky, yes, but you can only beat what's in front of you, and boy is he ever doing that. Landslide coming.

    I'm on board bettingwise, as a party member, as a voter, and (most importantly) as a citizen. I have just this minute ordered my Sparkle With Starmer tee shirt from the club shop. I suggest you put your debilitating grudge aside and do the same. If you give me your size and colour I'd be happy to put it on my account.
    I haven't been a member since Milliband. Previously I had been involved since the '80s, and I was active in Camden and later Cardiff North and the Vale of Glamorgan. I made the error of voting for the wrong Milliband after Brown resigned. Corbyn was a fiasco and I am not sure what Starmer Labour stand for.

    That said the post-2019 Government has been without doubt the most appalling administration of my lifetime. After Johnson, I had high hopes of Sunak, but since he became PM he has lost every last shred of common sense. I though if they replace him with Mordaunt, I can live with that, but her speech last week confirmed she is hopeless. Which leaves us with a selection of absolute right wing roasters.

    So despite my ambivalence towards Starmer, I do hope Labour win, and win big.

    I do have a ton on a Conservative majority at 9/1 to soften any unexpected blow.
  • Fake Gaza news floods Twitter as Musk loses grip on reality
    Bastion of online free speech struggles to contain disinformation amid severe staff cuts

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/11/fake-gaza-news-twitter-elon-musk-loses-grip-reality/ (£££)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    Perhaps we should just give all police full judicial powers, a gun, and the right to summarily execute? Is that the direction you’re leaning?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137
    edited October 2023
    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
    I think it more tells us about the focus of a culture. We roughly have the symbolic role of the King for that, and worry less about flags.

    Consider the similar US oath of enlistment - swearing allegiance to the Constitution:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    (Old Glory seems OK for swimsuits.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    TOPPING said:

    What someone who was involved once told me was that actually it is very difficult to get sent to jail. The courts will try most every avenue to avoid it and you have to be very determined to end up in prison. Despite the various Daily Mail/Mirror headlines.

    What that says about the price of eggs goodness only knows but it would appear that our lily-livered criminal justice system is overwhelmed by actual criminals.

    I would imagine that we're also still abiding by human rights legislation that means priosners can't be incarcerated too far from home, so that family can visit, hence still having prisons in London. Are we transferring prisoners around the UK where there's space? We should be.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    biggles said:

    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    Perhaps we should just give all police full judicial powers, a gun, and the right to summarily execute? Is that the direction you’re leaning?
    Can we have the cool bikes and music as well?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLojnAG4VI
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    This represents a 12.5% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019 under your boy Corbyn.
    Whats the swing since 2017?

    Nobody cares, because Theresa May won. And we have had a defining election since.
    I know Centrists would like to pretend 2017 never happened but it did and when you say Theresa May won she went into the Election with a Majority and came out of it without one.

    Biggest increase in Lab vote share since WW2
    I know Corbyn fans like to pretend 2019 never happened but it did. Boris Johnson went into the election without a majority and came away with a big one.

    Equal biggest drop in the opposition's seat number since WW2: Labour or Conservative.

    Edit to add: the 60 drop in Labour's seat total is tied with Michael Foot in 1983.
    I will never understand, even if I live to 150, why the 2017 election is so lionised.

    Expectations were exceeded, but the party still lost. So there are high points to draw on, but it obviously was not enough, and was followed by bigger failure.

    I don't think anyone has an issue recognising that 2017 happened (despite that being the confusing accusation), and against what people thought would happen represented a good result for Corbyn. But what good does it do to endlessly celebrate an increase in the vote that did not get them over the line as if that is all you need? If Sunak leads the Tories to hold onto largest party status but not enough to stay in power will his supporters bang on about that forevermore?
    If Labour had done as badly as expected in 2017 May would have remained PM and the Brexit result may have been less bad. We probably wouldn't have had Boris or Truss.
    So, probably a bad thing that they did better than expected.
    And, why did that happen? Because people didn't want the Tories to get their predicted landslide - not because they liked Corbyn's policies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
    I think it more tells us about the focus of a culture. We roughly have the symbolic role of the King for that, and worry less about flags.

    Consider the similar US oath of enlistment - swearing allegiance to the Constitution:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
    Or standing, hand over heart at the beginning of the school day, facing the flag in the corner and reciting:

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all"

    It's like a religious thing to them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137
    edited October 2023
    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    No.

    The correct way was to boost the Court System, perhaps even temporarily, to deal with 18-20% of the prison population who are held on remand, more quickly.

    The vast increase is only an artefact of the last 2 years or so.

    Rishi or one of his two predecessors could even have sold it as a short-term fix. Then they (& we) would not be in this hole.
  • Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    I'm a relative newcomer in these parts. I don't wish to speak out of turn, but...

    Fieldwork was done up to and including 7th October. The Labour Party Conference started on 8th October.

    Get a grip of yourself and grow up.

    Rishi has done well to get a 'bounce' in the Blue Wall where his 'policies' would be manna from heaven.

    To suggest that it's a "Conference unbounce' [sic] for Labour is foolish when the Labour Party Conference had yet to start.
  • MattW said:

    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    No - the correct way was to boost the Court System, perhaps even temporarily, to deal with 18-20% of the prison population who are held on remand, more quickly.

    Rishi could even have sold it as a short-term decision.

    I would look to collect the number of prisoners in prison for each crime and then switch some prisoners in for minor crimes to community sentences.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Been away for a while, mostly due to a bereavement but have also been paying a good deal less attention to the constant diet of appalling news just lately - which is probably no bad thing.

    One hugely encouraging report tonight though: Starmer committing in unambiguous language to giving the Nimbies a bloody good kicking. If the rhetoric is ultimately backed by solid commitments in the manifesto then I might actually have to turn out and vote Labour, despite my deep cynicism that it makes any real difference to anything at all.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413

    Fake Gaza news floods Twitter as Musk loses grip on reality
    Bastion of online free speech struggles to contain disinformation amid severe staff cuts

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/11/fake-gaza-news-twitter-elon-musk-loses-grip-reality/ (£££)

    Why should Twitter 'contain' 'misinformation'? Censorship is not going to make everyone less misinformed - if anything it adds credence to the misinformation. People should accept there's a lot of bollocks on social media and use their common sense.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    edited October 2023
    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    Apols if I’m mischaracterising you but I had the impression that you were someone whose regular refrain is that the world & society are getting increasingly dystopian. I hadn’t realised you thought this was a good thing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137

    MattW said:

    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    No - the correct way was to boost the Court System, perhaps even temporarily, to deal with 18-20% of the prison population who are held on remand, more quickly.

    Rishi could even have sold it as a short-term decision.

    I would look to collect the number of prisoners in prison for each crime and then switch some prisoners in for minor crimes to community sentences.
    There's some backing for that:

    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/short-prison-sentences-calls-for-change/#:~:text=What has the Government recently,sentences served in the community.
  • Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    I'm a relative newcomer in these parts. I don't wish to speak out of turn, but...

    Fieldwork was done up to and including 7th October. The Labour Party Conference started on 8th October.

    Get a grip of yourself and grow up.

    Rishi has done well to get a 'bounce' in the Blue Wall where his 'policies' would be manna from heaven.

    To suggest that it's a "Conference unbounce' [sic] for Labour is foolish when the Labour Party Conference had yet to start.
    If Sir Keir Starmer could walk on water John would be criticising Starmer for not being able to swim.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Fake Gaza news floods Twitter as Musk loses grip on reality
    Bastion of online free speech struggles to contain disinformation amid severe staff cuts

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/11/fake-gaza-news-twitter-elon-musk-loses-grip-reality/ (£££)

    Why should Twitter 'contain' 'misinformation'? Censorship is not going to make everyone less misinformed - if anything it adds credence to the misinformation. People should accept there's a lot of bollocks on social media and use their common sense.
    Twitter has turned to shit under Elon, as a direct result of his mismanagement and alt-right fetish.

    There was always bollocks on Twitter but the noise:signal ratio has deteriorated rapidly.
  • TOPPING said:

    What someone who was involved once told me was that actually it is very difficult to get sent to jail. The courts will try most every avenue to avoid it and you have to be very determined to end up in prison. Despite the various Daily Mail/Mirror headlines.

    What that says about the price of eggs goodness only knows but it would appear that our lily-livered criminal justice system is overwhelmed by actual criminals.

    I would imagine that we're also still abiding by human rights legislation that means priosners can't be incarcerated too far from home, so that family can visit, hence still having prisons in London. Are we transferring prisoners around the UK where there's space? We should be.
    Gone are the days of Norman Stanley Fletcher being sent to the wilds of Cumbria, far from his home in Muswell Hill
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,137
    edited October 2023
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
    I think it more tells us about the focus of a culture. We roughly have the symbolic role of the King for that, and worry less about flags.

    Consider the similar US oath of enlistment - swearing allegiance to the Constitution:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
    Or standing, hand over heart at the beginning of the school day, facing the flag in the corner and reciting:

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all"

    It's like a religious thing to them.
    Do non-Usonians get an opt-out of that?

    Say if a British or French or Japanese child is at a school in the USA?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    pigeon said:

    Been away for a while, mostly due to a bereavement but have also been paying a good deal less attention to the constant diet of appalling news just lately - which is probably no bad thing.

    One hugely encouraging report tonight though: Starmer committing in unambiguous language to giving the Nimbies a bloody good kicking. If the rhetoric is ultimately backed by solid commitments in the manifesto then I might actually have to turn out and vote Labour, despite my deep cynicism that it makes any real difference to anything at all.

    Welcome back @pigeon
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited October 2023

    darkage said:

    Just out of interest, would anyone agree with the idea that the best way to get a grip on this problem is to put more prisoners in to each cell, and to cut the bureaucracy that investigates deaths and assaults in custody.

    Apols if I’m mischaracterising you but I had the impression that you were someone who’s regular refrain is that the world & society was getting increasingly dystopian. I hadn’t realised you thought this was a good thing.
    I was asking if anyone agreed with the idea... I wasn't suggesting that I think it is a good idea.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
    I think it more tells us about the focus of a culture. We roughly have the symbolic role of the King for that, and worry less about flags.

    Consider the similar US oath of enlistment - swearing allegiance to the Constitution:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
    Or standing, hand over heart at the beginning of the school day, facing the flag in the corner and reciting:

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all"

    It's like a religious thing to them.
    I have, more than once, had to explain to Americans that my main view on someone brining a union flag is “that’s silly and a bit of a waste - didn’t you have to pay for that flag”?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Lab needs 19% swing to win Mid Beds.

    Mid Beds isn't within the definition of the Blue Wall (as Con maj is too big) but even so it's in same part of country and must overall have quite similar characteristics.

    So if swing is "only" 12.5% in Blue Wall, can Lab get 19% swing in Mid Beds?

    I guess you would expect a higher swing due to the fact it's a by-election and also the Dorries factor. But even so it looks quite a tall order.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Crossover in the Blue Wall

    SKS Party Conference unbounce

    SKS Fans please explain

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest lead for the Conservatives since we started our Blue Wall tracker last October.

    Blue Wall VI (7 October):

    Conservative 36% (+5)
    Labour 32% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 25% (-1)
    Reform UK 4% (-2)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 10 September

    I'm a relative newcomer in these parts. I don't wish to speak out of turn, but...

    Fieldwork was done up to and including 7th October. The Labour Party Conference started on 8th October.

    Get a grip of yourself and grow up.

    Rishi has done well to get a 'bounce' in the Blue Wall where his 'policies' would be manna from heaven.

    To suggest that it's a "Conference unbounce' [sic] for Labour is foolish when the Labour Party Conference had yet to start.
    If Sir Keir Starmer could walk on water John would be criticising Starmer for not being able to swim.
    There are plenty of good reasons to criticise Keir.
    JohnO doesn’t bother with those, he mostly just reports comforting half-truths from inside the Corbynista bubble.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413

    TOPPING said:

    What someone who was involved once told me was that actually it is very difficult to get sent to jail. The courts will try most every avenue to avoid it and you have to be very determined to end up in prison. Despite the various Daily Mail/Mirror headlines.

    What that says about the price of eggs goodness only knows but it would appear that our lily-livered criminal justice system is overwhelmed by actual criminals.

    I would imagine that we're also still abiding by human rights legislation that means priosners can't be incarcerated too far from home, so that family can visit, hence still having prisons in London. Are we transferring prisoners around the UK where there's space? We should be.
    Gone are the days of Norman Stanley Fletcher being sent to the wilds of Cumbria, far from his home in Muswell Hill
    Well back they should come. Sell the prisons in London for housing.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    I learnt something new about the USA this afternoon.

    Flag Retirement Drop Boxes:
    https://hiltonheadislandsc.gov/firerescue/flagbox.cfm

    It may sound silly, but I think that's one of the 1,001 little ways that civilised nations behave. Life doesn't have to be a war of all against all accompanied by screaming.
    US flags only, mind.

    They're very fussy. No-one here thinks anything of UJ knickers, but (certainly in the C20) Old Glory underwear was very much frowned on over there.
    I think it more tells us about the focus of a culture. We roughly have the symbolic role of the King for that, and worry less about flags.

    Consider the similar US oath of enlistment - swearing allegiance to the Constitution:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
    Or standing, hand over heart at the beginning of the school day, facing the flag in the corner and reciting:

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all"

    It's like a religious thing to them.
    Do non-Usonians get an opt-out of that?

    Say if a British or French or Japanese child is at a school in the USA?
    A friend’s child, when they were out there for a bit, was told to sing “the national anthem”. So she did. Ours.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to delve into the detail of what happened in Israel over the weekend. It is both sickening and disturbing.

    But there are quite a few political implications, which are worth discussing. Such as -

    1. The possible impact on the US Presidential election. There are American hostages being held by Hamas. The US paid money to Iran recently in return for hostages. What impact might both of these facts have?

    2. The London Mayoral election. Susan Hall made a very ill-judged attack on Sadiq Khan and how Jews feared him when in fact Khan has reacted entirely appropriately and sensitively to what has happened. She ought to withdraw her accusation.

    3. It highlights what Starmer has achieved in Labour and undercuts any Tory claims that Starmer is somehow a Corbyn in a better suit.

    4. What happens next in Gaza, how one fights an asymmetric war and the double standards shown by those who were not at all squeamish about how the West and its proxies defeated ISIS in Iraq but now expect Israel to behave as if it was playing some sort of polite cricket match.

    5. What can be done to protect innocent Gazans from the wickedness of their leaders.

    6. The possibilities of a wider Middle Eastern war and the economic consequences of that and indeed what is happening now.

    7. The consequences for Israel itself and its internal politics. Will it cement Netanyahu in place or turf him out?

    8. Will the West become war weary - first Ukraine, now this. What might this mean?

    9. The response by some in this country - the realisation that those who use "fascist" and "genocide" to describe any tiny microaggression or refusal to do what is wanted seem incapable of using those words when they rather more accurately describe what is happening.

    Excellent questions.

    1. Not sure

    2. Quite fortuitous that Susan made the appalling remark prior to subsequent developments. She is a clown, but they might help her against Khan

    3. I suspect the Starmer served under anti-Semite could hurt.

    4. Scorched earth. It helps Bibi salvage his domestic reputation, in the short term at least.

    5. Quite probably, nothing.

    6. Very probable.

    7. The intelligence failure should have finished him. I fear the more retributive casualties will enhance him, and keep him out of jail.

    8. Western Europe can't afford a Putin win, and the US have to ensure an Israeli win.

    9. Emotive language is helpful for both sides.
This discussion has been closed.