Categories
Options
Will some be more equal than others? – politicalbetting.com
Will some be more equal than others? – politicalbetting.com
October is Black History Month. Labour marked this by issuing a Tweet saying that it is: “the time to celebrate the achievements and contributions of Black communities and acknowledge the inequality they still face.” To this end, Labour’s message went on: “Labour will introduce a Race Equality Act to tackle structural racial inequalities.”
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/01/former-race-lead-sues-ehrc-for-race-discrimination
My view is that we should aim to treat people equally regardless of race. My inference is that the Labour Party do not believe this.
We can say the same for gender, class, sexuality, disability etc.
That said, it feels like an inquiry into structural inequality - perhaps focusing on race, but not exclusively - with subsequent recommendations to inform a potential act would be more sensible.
I have a feeling some tory fuccboi will be wheeling out that MLK quote very soon.
1. Does structure racial inequality exist?
2. If so, does tackling it require legislation?
3. If so, does that legislation necessarily require "prioritising" people who are its victims*.
4. If so, what exactly does "prioritising" mean?
My responses are
1. Yes, definitely
2. Perhaps
3. Probably not
4. I have no idea
YMMV. I'll await detail before I get into a supportive/objecting mindset.
*Of course, we aren't just talking about non-White people. Some White people face structural inequality and racism too, amongst which are Jews and Travellers.
If Labour were serious about making an economic difference, they'd (for instance) be going large on their housing/planning policy rather than kicking it into the long grass.
This was also rather more on point.
https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1708559398715486303
We know, for instance, that a black student with the same A level results is less likely to get a first than a white student. Indeed, 3 A*s for a black student will have the same outcomes as a BBB white student. So something is happening during the process of university education that is disadvantaging black students. Therefore something about the ways universities operate has to change. We can look at the history of British education and accept that the mode of teaching is essentially based off of two institutions that were designed and evolved to educate the elite of British society. We can see that, because of previous generations of discrimination, there are fewer non white profs and lecturers (similarly there are fewer women in professorships or lecturing positions, although that number is increasing). So the changes we need to make are to those aspects of British education that disadvantage non white students - prioritising black students specifically.
Similar patterns can be seen with health outcome, job prospects, etc. They can also be seen in other intersecting categories - students with physical disabilities in higher education have lower outcomes comparable to their peers with similar results when entering university, muslim students similarly, as well as poorer students. We should be giving people equality of opportunity; and the only way to do that is to measure equality of outcomes.
Both sides are guilty of it.
But it smacks of presentation over substance.
You can't easily legislate away structural inequalities - unless they are ones which are explicit in existing legislation.
Thought I’d better update the good people of PB on how we fared doing the Yorkshire Three Peaks Challenge on Saturday, after people here were so generous with their donations.
I did it, completed the circuit in 8.5hrs, which I’m pleased with but I really pushed myself - no stopping to eat, no breaks, just constant motion. In parts it was utterly brutal especially getting up Ingleborough, the last of the peaks. A few people dropped out after the second peak cos they were either done in or so far behind they’d have been climbing the last peak in the dark - not a good idea.
I was the first to finish in our group - there were 28 of us that started in the end, 23 finished - and the last group of 5 got in after 13 hours in total, and they had to come down from Ingleborough in the dark. It was tricky enough in the daylight for me, so their persistence and determination was superb. One guy who did it had a prosthetic leg, after losing his leg in a crash last year. I cannot imagine how the hell he did that.
A couple of people who were intending to do it had to pull out due to injuries so they plan to do it in May and I said I’d join them. I must be insane.
We’re all stiff as a board and I’m still knackered - feels like a two day hangover today, that lingering lethargy I now have on a Monday if I’ve had a very boozy Saturday night.
Thanks again PB for your donations, loads of people mentioned to me how generous people from this site have been. Just in case you missed the link and would like to donate to a charity that supports children with congenital heart problems at Leeds General Infirmary, here you go: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/isaac-phoenix-davison?utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=fundraising&utm_content=isaac-phoenix-davison&utm_campaign=pfp-whatsapp&utm_term=a5d00617328744428695a5496d68e55f
That is, younger cohorts, who are more diverse get worse, more expensive housing.
This has already resulted in this policy change
"Rebecca Ann Felton (née Latimer; June 10, 1835 – January 24, 1930) was an American writer, politician, activist, and slave owner who was the first woman to serve in the United States Senate, although she served for only one day.[2][3] A major figure in American first-wave feminism, Felton was also a white supremacist and the last slave owner to serve in Senate who spoke vigorously in favor of lynching African Americans, under the pretense of protecting the sexual purity of white women. Many of the African Americans she admonished were falsely accused of rape."
And may not be everyone's favorite example of the benefits of "intersectionality".
https://www.nps.gov/articles/sojourner-truth.htm
As I understand it, Treasury has signed off package of reallocating the many billions of pounds of proceeds from cancelling HS2 Manchester leg to what ministers describe as people’s transport “priorities” (!). But the PM has not yet given his approval (or not!).
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1708770222050627671
There are two reasons why not. It actually not very interesting story, perhaps even undecided from a few which they actually want to put on, or it involves some very powerful people and its got bogged down in court.
It's important because the solutions are different and getting the right mix of solutions helps all those to whom the disadvantages apply, not just those with an easily measured characteristic where that group is better. For example, if it is about living off campus, that might also apply to disadvantaged white students (if it's a cost thing?) and so doing things to address that, either by making it easier to live on campus or looking at additional help in other ways for off-campus dwellers is more effective than targetting black students.
*e.g. increase in coursework assessment fingered for being behind the differentials between female and male attainment at school, although I don't know if that ever stood up to scrutiny
**this is a real thing - and not just by ethnic group, also by gender, economic background, education (state/private) etc
***I'd never heard this mentioned before, nor had it occurred to me, but intriguing if true
If people were capable of achieving 3 A*s then they were not previously hindered due to their race. Unless for some reason you think they did not earn the A* and were somehow gifted it unearned, which seems to me to be highly implausible and quite offensive.
If people are then being discriminated against, having not been previously, which then holds them back so that despite being triple A* at school they can't do well at university we should look at why that is and address it.
That doesn't mean prioritisation, it means fixing any discrimination so they're being treated on a level playing field.
No, thought not
“White people have the LOWEST life expectancy of any ethnic group in England and Wales, finds first official report of its kind”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9826487/White-people-worst-life-expectancy-ethnic-group.html
Rishi Sunak faces another nightmare by-election in a Red Wall seat as an MP is set to be ousted over a lobbying scandal.
The Standards Committee is poised to suspend Scott Benton for more than 10 days, which will trigger a process that will give his constituents the chance to remove him.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-face-another-nightmare-election-31082177
I remember once reading a study that discussed disciplining of young black Caribbean boys in primary schools and the discrepancies. Teachers would self report that those young students were more disruptive in class. How was this manifesting? Typically black Caribbean boys would ask to sharpen their pencils more, and would spend more time setting up for tasks by arranging their utensils - rulers, calculators etc. This study then went into the homes of these black Caribbean boys and saw that this was how they were shown to do tasks at home - that the adults would, before doing a task like cooking, set out all the utensils they would need and prepare all their tools. So they had been taught something that was a cultural difference at home, but it was perceived in the school as disruptive when repeated there. This would then start young black Caribbean boys off with negative associations with institutional education which would cascade as they got older - with early issues having bigger effects later on.
I've also seen studies that look at unconscious biases in personal tutors; where personal tutors were more likely to respond quickly to students who had male and white sounding names versus students who had female and non white sounding names. This kind of behaviour could also have a cascading effect - and it is something that is hard to notice as it is simply just someone probably skimming an email and unconsciously deeming things less urgent when they come from students of colour.
These kinds of things - cultural differences in learning alongside unconscious biases - exist and we have to tackle them, both from a moral stand point and in existing regulation of the sector.
Judge people on their actual grades plus some small adjustment things like performance against their peers at same school.
If it comes in at HE levels, then look into why and fix it.
Don't just slap a bandage on and fix bigotry by more bigotry.
Are you going to be prioritising the education of white boys over other ethnic groups? No, thought not. Funny, that
“OUT CLASSED UK White lads are the WORST at school and get the LOWEST GCSE results according to new report”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2153574/white-lads-are-the-worst-at-school-and-get-the-lowest-gcse-results-according-to-new-report/
(We do, much as it is derided by some - we all have them and to address them we need ot be alert to them. Take me, for example - I had a masters student who I concluded from first meeting was a lazy fekker; he proceeded to turn in a very respectable dissertation, well above average. So he was either lazy and very gifted or I misjudged him, perhaps due to cultural issues around how he expressed his ambition or lack of it - he was not from UK. Had it been a job interview, I'd have dismissed him pretty quickly.)
As per
@Peston
I’m also told the decision has been made to scrap the Manchester leg of HS2 with the money going on other transport projects
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1708778412150534226
"The penny is dropping among people in Westminster that the Government doesn't run the Government," says Conservative MP Danny Kruger..
..."There's a huge movement going on globally to create essentially a world government that will have power to dictate to national governments what they should do in anticipation of another pandemic," says Danny Kruger, who says there is "no greater threat to our national democracy"..
absolutely bloody ridiculous.
And yet you keep bringing this up as a gotcha.
We shouldn't instead tolerate it and do positive affirmation instead.
One promising highlight is some little known East Anglian MP talking about building, cutting taxes and growing the economy. In a proper Tory party she would be leadership material.
Look, even in The Thick of It, they didn't host a party conference in Manchester while scrapping a major public transport connection to Manchester
@skynewsniall
Oh, and in a former railway station. Just for sh*ts and gigs.
You gotta feel for Sir Kir. It's the performative imperative.
He can't take the knee every day. Nor can she
Also you can’t beat scooter diving with 14 foot sharks and massive manta rays after a couple of stiff ones
So to summarise, the Government has just announced plans to scrap the biggest public transport infrastructure project planned for any Northern city, while taking part in its conference in that same city, which its Chancellor chose to travel to by plane.
"However low in the polls the commentariat place us, I believe this week will be a turning point." - Peter Booth, the chair of the National Conservative Convention from the #cpc23 stage a moment ago.
Chinese and Indian pupils well ahead. Though of course immigrant families do tend to be more motivated anyway
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest
Rishi Sunak has inadvertently contrived to make the Conservatives' pre-election conference one about the future of HS2 rather than his broader vision for the future, whatever that may be....and with the scrapping of the Manchester leg he will trigger another noisy internal row. Leadership is impossibly tough..He's struggling to master the basic arts.
A key part of the levelling up agenda.
Edit: picked up a teeny bit as it's gone one.
On chopping and changing specs, lawyers, reviews etc, etc, etc
It wouldn't surprise me if the actual construction costs end up a tiny fraction of the overall costs.
Having politicians routinely reviewing or adapting the specs is a huge part of the problem - and they're doing it again now.
'Don't bet against Britain. It's been tried before, and it never works.'
Chancellor
@Jeremy_Hunt
speaks at the Tory party conference about the ONS 'changing their minds about the size of the British economy'.
In other news, we can't build a fucking railway line...
If the UK had always been run by people like Sunak and Hunt we'd be much poorer and at best a developing country.
The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.[2]
Initiative 200 effectively curtailed any form of affirmative action in the state.[3] In April 2019, the Washington Legislature passed Initiative 1000, ending the ban on affirmative action.[4] However, in November 2019, Referendum 88 blocked Initiative 1000 from going into effect."
Two details you won't find there: Washington state has a community property law, so that any money earned in a marriage belongs equally to husband and wife. So, for example, before the passage of I-200, a contractor could convert his business to a "female-owned" business by giving 1 percent of it to a daughter, or to his wife. That would then give him an advantage in winning state jobs.
Second, Japanese-Americans, before the passage of the initiative, were in a strange situation: They got "affirmative action" benefits in contracting, but not in admission to colleges and universities. So the same man might be treated as "white", and "non-white". (Those who understand quantum mechanics will appreciate that detail.)
I'm sure we've all observed the complete uselessness of the average British contractor - scratching their arses while 3 others stand around and supervise, but it seems almost inconceivable that this is the answer.
That means companies have a wider choice of people to employ when filling vacancies and provides people with the ability to find better paid work where their skills can be used (hence everyone wins because they are more productiove).
1) why are our costs 10x that of France?
2) what needs to be done to correct those issues?
3) Which of items can be fixed quickly?
Oh and I know he's lying that the costs are 10 times that of France but regardless of the actual multiply we should be identifying the issues and resolving them not stopping there and saying - tough.
I much prefer the postings from his less illiberal current alter egos.
Our motorways were constructed in the 60s and 70s and GDP per capita growth was far higher then as a result.
For the past few decades we've neglected our infrastructure. If we'd kept investing in new motorway capacity at the same rate as we had in the 60s, we'd be far more productive today.
Oh such a thing exists. Feel silly now.