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An R&W Welsh poll finds backing for the 20mph speed limit – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,769
edited September 2023 in General
An R&W Welsh poll finds backing for the 20mph speed limit – politicalbetting.com

Do Welsh voters support or oppose the new 20mph speed limit on roads where cars mix with pedestrians and cyclists? (16-17 September)Support 46%Oppose 34% pic.twitter.com/Lgwszqjla3

Read the full story here

Comments

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,598
    First, like the Drake.

    Haw!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    edited September 2023
    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken
  • Options
    "Green bonfire" - Guardian.

  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    FPT

    Kwasi Kwarteng on Newsnight: seems to be disappointed by scrapping of 2030 target.
  • Options
    "'Honest' Rishi" - Express.

    That could go horribly, horribly wrong.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    First, like the Drake.

    Haw!

    How can you be first if you only travel at 20 mph??
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,878
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Kwasi Kwarteng on Newsnight: seems to be disappointed by scrapping of 2030 target.

    KK is just a complete twerp isn't he really.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,715
    edited September 2023

    "'Honest' Rishi" - Express.

    That could go horribly, horribly wrong.

    Sorry link not working
  • Options

    "'Honest' Rishi" - Express.

    That could go horribly, horribly wrong.

    Meanwhile...


    Eric Holthaus
    @EricHolthaus
    ·
    4m
    "Brazil could record its highest temperature in history during this winter heatwave."

    Read that again. It's still winter in Brazil and they are approaching all-time record hottest temperatures for *any* month in *any* year.

    We are in a climate emergency.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Kwasi Kwarteng on Newsnight: seems to be disappointed by scrapping of 2030 target.

    Needs to have a word with Truss then
  • Options
    Sunak will be very pleased with those front pages.
  • Options

    Sunak will be very pleased with those front pages.

    The Sun in particular is effusive
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    I always liked him when I was a young lefty - remember him being on the titles of The London Programme, the theme tune to which really brings back memories of 80s London
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This whole green u-turn kerfuffle from the Tories is convincing me, once again, that I probably need to vote Labour

    Don’t get me wrong. I hate Labour. I mistrust Starmer. I loathe, with revolutionary zeal, everywhere about Wokeness. And Labour will do lots of Woke things

    But I believe Starmer’s Labour are basically patriotic, unionist, and capitalist and they won’t destroy the country (unlike Corbyn). They won’t disarm us of our nukes, they won’t impose an insane wealth tax which will demolish London

    So they are just about tolerable. In which case they will probably get my vote because if they are to govern well they need a big majority so they have confidence to enact real reforms over 5 or 10 years. And see them through. And finish things like HS2 and NPR. The Tories are just desperately politicking with an eye to the polls next month

    I know PB doesn’t believe me, but as things stand I am voting for my constituency MP. Sir Kir “Royale” Starmer

    You haven't explained why you don't like the Tories at the moment, unless it's simply because of the new green policy.
    Because they have no plan - for anything. Zero ideology. Zero ideas. Zero. ZERO. It’s all hand-to-mouth modest populism, and not even that well done

    Labour aren’t exactly a philosophical fountain of ideas but it’s a fair bet they will have SOME new thinking - after 13 years in opposition

    Whereas Cameron, Osborne, May and Johnson were all so sophisticated? Has the penny just dropped?
    Cameron did have ideas. Form an electoral bloc with Con and LD voters. Reduce the size of the state. Use referendums to resolve longstanding open sores. And for a while they worked. But the coalition could only deliver a small majority, austerity hurt more than it helped, and not all the referendums went to plan. Good ideas that failed in the field, but I understood it

    May had ideas. Arrange a painless Brexit, cope with the demographic problem by imposing a wealth tax. But her man management and presentation skills were not up to it and she failed. But I understood her.

    Boris had ideas. A spoilt and feckless man, his idea was to purchase votes by levelling up in the Red Wall, and his Greenery reflected the thoughtless interests of the metropolitan elite he personified. I genuinely disliked him but I understood him, better than himself. The Labour-Conservative bloc he built would have worked.

    Truss we shall pass a kindly veil over

    But Sunak. What does he believe? In his core? What is the Britain he wants to build? What are the problems, and what are the solutions? Does he even know himself?
    All fine as long as you're aware that these summaries are only impressions that you have formed, rather than the truth.
    You do what you can with what you have. Always happy to be corrected when wrong.
    It's not really a question of correcting you, merely us all recognising that these summaries are your truth. They're true, for you. Truth is many sided - we never have the full picture.
  • Options
    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This whole green u-turn kerfuffle from the Tories is convincing me, once again, that I probably need to vote Labour

    Don’t get me wrong. I hate Labour. I mistrust Starmer. I loathe, with revolutionary zeal, everywhere about Wokeness. And Labour will do lots of Woke things

    But I believe Starmer’s Labour are basically patriotic, unionist, and capitalist and they won’t destroy the country (unlike Corbyn). They won’t disarm us of our nukes, they won’t impose an insane wealth tax which will demolish London

    So they are just about tolerable. In which case they will probably get my vote because if they are to govern well they need a big majority so they have confidence to enact real reforms over 5 or 10 years. And see them through. And finish things like HS2 and NPR. The Tories are just desperately politicking with an eye to the polls next month

    I know PB doesn’t believe me, but as things stand I am voting for my constituency MP. Sir Kir “Royale” Starmer

    You haven't explained why you don't like the Tories at the moment, unless it's simply because of the new green policy.
    Because they have no plan - for anything. Zero ideology. Zero ideas. Zero. ZERO. It’s all hand-to-mouth modest populism, and not even that well done

    Labour aren’t exactly a philosophical fountain of ideas but it’s a fair bet they will have SOME new thinking - after 13 years in opposition

    Whereas Cameron, Osborne, May and Johnson were all so sophisticated? Has the penny just dropped?
    Cameron did have ideas. Form an electoral bloc with Con and LD voters. Reduce the size of the state. Use referendums to resolve longstanding open sores. And for a while they worked. But the coalition could only deliver a small majority, austerity hurt more than it helped, and not all the referendums went to plan. Good ideas that failed in the field, but I understood it

    May had ideas. Arrange a painless Brexit, cope with the demographic problem by imposing a wealth tax. But her man management and presentation skills were not up to it and she failed. But I understood her.

    Boris had ideas. A spoilt and feckless man, his idea was to purchase votes by levelling up in the Red Wall, and his Greenery reflected the thoughtless interests of the metropolitan elite he personified. I genuinely disliked him but I understood him, better than himself. The Labour-Conservative bloc he built would have worked.

    Truss we shall pass a kindly veil over

    But Sunak. What does he believe? In his core? What is the Britain he wants to build? What are the problems, and what are the solutions? Does he even know himself?
    That’s what I thought about Boris - he wasn’t governing in a particularly right wing way was he? Economically he was kind of centre left, culturally centre right. Pretty much reflecting the country

    I don’t think people on here hated him for his policies, but because they had underestimated, then been beaten by him consistently
    Curious that despite being culturally right/socially conservative migration figures are higher now than they were when we had FoM.
    Curious too that Mr Brexiteer was initially fine with May's Chequers surrender deal and only resigned to keep his hopes of getting the premiership alive after Davis did.
    And let's not forget how he claimed that he stood behind the DUP when May was PM, only to totally shaft them once he was in No10 himself.
    People hate Boris not because he beat them, but because he is a liar, a charlatan, who does things for his own self interest despite them causing great harm to the country. And along the gave positions to the likes of Chris Pincher, JRM, and Dorries despite knowing they weren't fit to be anywhere near the corridors of power.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The whole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,277
    The beatification of Sunak by the right wing press.

    He came and his mission was to save the poor and downtrodden ! Jeez they must think their readers are gullible morons !
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,449

    "'Honest' Rishi" - Express.

    That could go horribly, horribly wrong.

    Meanwhile...


    Eric Holthaus
    @EricHolthaus
    ·
    4m
    "Brazil could record its highest temperature in history during this winter heatwave."

    Read that again. It's still winter in Brazil and they are approaching all-time record hottest temperatures for *any* month in *any* year.

    We are in a climate emergency.
    It looks pretty damn hot in Paraguay.



    Meanwhile in Australia it is 14 degrees higher than the September average.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/19/nsw-schools-closed-heatwave-australia-high-fire-danger-total-fire-bans?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,489
    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The whole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    edited September 2023
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    I always liked him when I was a young lefty - remember him being on the titles of The London Programme, the theme tune to which really brings back memories of 80s London
    I iiked him even as a young rightwinger. He had a chirpiness. The classic rebellious cockney lad (born of WWC Tory parents). I liked the way he told the Blairite Labour Apparat to go fuck themselves, and he won. FFS they wanted Frank Dobson, the most boring man on earth (after Sadiq Khan)

    London can and must do better than Khan. Shape up, Labour



  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,289
    Foxy said:

    "'Honest' Rishi" - Express.

    That could go horribly, horribly wrong.

    Meanwhile...


    Eric Holthaus
    @EricHolthaus
    ·
    4m
    "Brazil could record its highest temperature in history during this winter heatwave."

    Read that again. It's still winter in Brazil and they are approaching all-time record hottest temperatures for *any* month in *any* year.

    We are in a climate emergency.
    It looks pretty damn hot in Paraguay.



    Meanwhile in Australia it is 14 degrees higher than the September average.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/19/nsw-schools-closed-heatwave-australia-high-fire-danger-total-fire-bans?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    27C in North Island NZ too.

    But chucking it down with rain here.
  • Options
    HMS Queen Elizabeth two-thirds empty as RAF fighter jets slashed
    The UK’s lead aircraft carrier is two-thirds empty as it leads a major deployment this autumn because of the “slaughter” of RAF fighter jet numbers in recent years.

    HMS Queen Elizabeth, the flagship of the Royal Navy, has the capacity to accommodate 36 F-35B Lightning jets and was designed to routinely carry up to 24 planes on operations.

    However, the 920ft long vessel is leading an international patrol around Norway and the North Atlantic with only eight fifth-generation fighters on board, meaning it will be two-thirds empty. When the USS Gerald R Ford, the largest American carrier, visited Norway earlier this year she had more than 40 aircraft on board, including dozens of F-18 fighter jets.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uks-lead-aircraft-carrier-two-thirds-empty-as-raf-fighter-jets-slashed-nfqqw8qrk (£££)

    Tory defence cuts go back decades. And that's leaving aside the matter of RAF jets on RN carriers.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Apparently an eye test can give early diagnosis for dementia. This is the man who did my op last week

    https://youtu.be/2oxsQJm3DTs?si=ztcmjsen0A9OMJMs
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The wthole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
    Actually, I think I probably would. LEON FOR LONDON

    But I would accept that this is my limit. I am not prime ministerial material. I am too easily distracted too easily bored, and my past life will not bear the scrutiny given to a potential PM. 10 years as a heroin addict is a hard sell, and all the tweeting from brothels could prove "tricky"

    Mayor of London, tho? Yeah, I could do that, and do it better than Khan. I would, at least, be funnier. Khan is so relentlessly humourless

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    I always liked him when I was a young lefty - remember him being on the titles of The London Programme, the theme tune to which really brings back memories of 80s London
    I iiked him even as a young rightwinger. He had a chirpiness. The classic rebellious cockney lad (born of WWC Tory parents). I liked the way he told the Blairite Labour Apparat to go fuck themselves, and he won. FFS they wanted Frank Dobson, the most boring man on earth (after Sadiq Khan)

    London can and must do better than Khan. Shape up, Labour



    London Programme theme.

    https://youtu.be/LPa1RFAivy4?si=HBODv6nkhzbQPt69
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,495
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The wthole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
    Actually, I think I probably would. LEON FOR LONDON

    But I would accept that this is my limit. I am not prime ministerial material. I am too easily distracted too easily bored, and my past life will not bear the scrutiny given to a potential PM. 10 years as a heroin addict is a hard sell, and all the tweeting from brothels could prove "tricky"

    Mayor of London, tho? Yeah, I could do that, and do it better than Khan. I would, at least, be funnier. Khan is so relentlessly humourless

    How did you stop the opiates?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This whole green u-turn kerfuffle from the Tories is convincing me, once again, that I probably need to vote Labour

    Don’t get me wrong. I hate Labour. I mistrust Starmer. I loathe, with revolutionary zeal, everywhere about Wokeness. And Labour will do lots of Woke things

    But I believe Starmer’s Labour are basically patriotic, unionist, and capitalist and they won’t destroy the country (unlike Corbyn). They won’t disarm us of our nukes, they won’t impose an insane wealth tax which will demolish London

    So they are just about tolerable. In which case they will probably get my vote because if they are to govern well they need a big majority so they have confidence to enact real reforms over 5 or 10 years. And see them through. And finish things like HS2 and NPR. The Tories are just desperately politicking with an eye to the polls next month

    I know PB doesn’t believe me, but as things stand I am voting for my constituency MP. Sir Kir “Royale” Starmer

    You haven't explained why you don't like the Tories at the moment, unless it's simply because of the new green policy.
    Because they have no plan - for anything. Zero ideology. Zero ideas. Zero. ZERO. It’s all hand-to-mouth modest populism, and not even that well done

    Labour aren’t exactly a philosophical fountain of ideas but it’s a fair bet they will have SOME new thinking - after 13 years in opposition

    Whereas Cameron, Osborne, May and Johnson were all so sophisticated? Has the penny just dropped?
    Cameron did have ideas. Form an electoral bloc with Con and LD voters. Reduce the size of the state. Use referendums to resolve longstanding open sores. And for a while they worked. But the coalition could only deliver a small majority, austerity hurt more than it helped, and not all the referendums went to plan. Good ideas that failed in the field, but I understood it

    May had ideas. Arrange a painless Brexit, cope with the demographic problem by imposing a wealth tax. But her man management and presentation skills were not up to it and she failed. But I understood her.

    Boris had ideas. A spoilt and feckless man, his idea was to purchase votes by levelling up in the Red Wall, and his Greenery reflected the thoughtless interests of the metropolitan elite he personified. I genuinely disliked him but I understood him, better than himself. The Labour-Conservative bloc he built would have worked.

    Truss we shall pass a kindly veil over

    But Sunak. What does he believe? In his core? What is the Britain he wants to build? What are the problems, and what are the solutions? Does he even know himself?
    That’s what I thought about Boris - he wasn’t governing in a particularly right wing way was he? Economically he was kind of centre left, culturally centre right. Pretty much reflecting the country

    I don’t think people on here hated him for his policies, but because they had underestimated, then been beaten by him consistently
    Curious that despite being culturally right/socially conservative migration figures are higher now than they were when we had FoM.
    Curious too that Mr Brexiteer was initially fine with May's Chequers surrender deal and only resigned to keep his hopes of getting the premiership alive after Davis did.
    And let's not forget how he claimed that he stood behind the DUP when May was PM, only to totally shaft them once he was in No10 himself.
    People hate Boris not because he beat them, but because he is a liar, a charlatan, who does things for his own self interest despite them causing great harm to the country. And along the gave positions to the likes of Chris Pincher, JRM, and Dorries despite knowing they weren't fit to be anywhere near the corridors of power.
    All that may well be true, or not, but @isam is right: Boris was feared and loathed because he kept winning. And he won the biggest vote of all: Brexit (and rammed it through by winning the Great Brexit Election). Everything else is subsidiary to that, all the partygate/Pincher nonsense, it was all trivial. Boris had to be brought down, because he won Brexit

    On the other hand, he was a total idiot for handing his enemies all the ammo they needed. He was weirdly naive
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,289
    Weird fact: Spain leads the world in internet meme content.

    Josep Maria Garcia, snapped in Barcelona: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbreaking:_The_Worst_Person_You_Know_Just_Made_A_Great_Point

    3 young Spaniards in a stick photo taken in Barcelona: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distracted_boyfriend

    El Risitas: Spanish comedian https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/spanish-laughing-guy-el-risitas-interview-parodies
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    Indeed, albeit he had a somewhat complicated relationship with his women
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    The beatification of Sunak by the right wing press.

    He came and his mission was to save the poor and downtrodden ! Jeez they must think their readers are gullible morons !

    Your move Starmer.


    The election has begun.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    For some reason I thought Ken was a teetotaller.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The wthole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
    Actually, I think I probably would. LEON FOR LONDON

    But I would accept that this is my limit. I am not prime ministerial material. I am too easily distracted too easily bored, and my past life will not bear the scrutiny given to a potential PM. 10 years as a heroin addict is a hard sell, and all the tweeting from brothels could prove "tricky"

    Mayor of London, tho? Yeah, I could do that, and do it better than Khan. I would, at least, be funnier. Khan is so relentlessly humourless

    How did you stop the opiates?
    Narcotics Anonymous, in the end. I tried everything else - running away, hiding in Cornwall, taking Naltrexone, nothing worked - ultimately I had to face up to my addiction in my hometown: London

    I didn't do quite the sixty meetings in sixty days, but I did about 30 meetings in 90 days, It was like a course of psychological antibotics, and had to be completed

    I still drink (obviously) which you are not meant to do. But I have not ever gone back to heroin. I have been clean of heroin since the Spring Equinox of 2002, when I began attending NA meetings (and after a truly weird epiphany in Soho)
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,277
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This whole green u-turn kerfuffle from the Tories is convincing me, once again, that I probably need to vote Labour

    Don’t get me wrong. I hate Labour. I mistrust Starmer. I loathe, with revolutionary zeal, everywhere about Wokeness. And Labour will do lots of Woke things

    But I believe Starmer’s Labour are basically patriotic, unionist, and capitalist and they won’t destroy the country (unlike Corbyn). They won’t disarm us of our nukes, they won’t impose an insane wealth tax which will demolish London

    So they are just about tolerable. In which case they will probably get my vote because if they are to govern well they need a big majority so they have confidence to enact real reforms over 5 or 10 years. And see them through. And finish things like HS2 and NPR. The Tories are just desperately politicking with an eye to the polls next month

    I know PB doesn’t believe me, but as things stand I am voting for my constituency MP. Sir Kir “Royale” Starmer

    You haven't explained why you don't like the Tories at the moment, unless it's simply because of the new green policy.
    Because they have no plan - for anything. Zero ideology. Zero ideas. Zero. ZERO. It’s all hand-to-mouth modest populism, and not even that well done

    Labour aren’t exactly a philosophical fountain of ideas but it’s a fair bet they will have SOME new thinking - after 13 years in opposition

    Whereas Cameron, Osborne, May and Johnson were all so sophisticated? Has the penny just dropped?
    Cameron did have ideas. Form an electoral bloc with Con and LD voters. Reduce the size of the state. Use referendums to resolve longstanding open sores. And for a while they worked. But the coalition could only deliver a small majority, austerity hurt more than it helped, and not all the referendums went to plan. Good ideas that failed in the field, but I understood it

    May had ideas. Arrange a painless Brexit, cope with the demographic problem by imposing a wealth tax. But her man management and presentation skills were not up to it and she failed. But I understood her.

    Boris had ideas. A spoilt and feckless man, his idea was to purchase votes by levelling up in the Red Wall, and his Greenery reflected the thoughtless interests of the metropolitan elite he personified. I genuinely disliked him but I understood him, better than himself. The Labour-Conservative bloc he built would have worked.

    Truss we shall pass a kindly veil over

    But Sunak. What does he believe? In his core? What is the Britain he wants to build? What are the problems, and what are the solutions? Does he even know himself?
    That’s what I thought about Boris - he wasn’t governing in a particularly right wing way was he? Economically he was kind of centre left, culturally centre right. Pretty much reflecting the country

    I don’t think people on here hated him for his policies, but because they had underestimated, then been beaten by him consistently
    Curious that despite being culturally right/socially conservative migration figures are higher now than they were when we had FoM.
    Curious too that Mr Brexiteer was initially fine with May's Chequers surrender deal and only resigned to keep his hopes of getting the premiership alive after Davis did.
    And let's not forget how he claimed that he stood behind the DUP when May was PM, only to totally shaft them once he was in No10 himself.
    People hate Boris not because he beat them, but because he is a liar, a charlatan, who does things for his own self interest despite them causing great harm to the country. And along the gave positions to the likes of Chris Pincher, JRM, and Dorries despite knowing they weren't fit to be anywhere near the corridors of power.
    All that may well be true, or not, but @isam is right: Boris was feared and loathed because he kept winning. And he won the biggest vote of all: Brexit (and rammed it through by winning the Great Brexit Election). Everything else is subsidiary to that, all the partygate/Pincher nonsense, it was all trivial. Boris had to be brought down, because he won Brexit

    On the other hand, he was a total idiot for handing his enemies all the ammo they needed. He was weirdly naive
    Many of those who wanted him gone were Brexiters . Brexit didn’t bring him down , being a pathological liar did .
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    edited September 2023
    Support for 20mph limits in Wales.

    50% of voters (and 70% of Conservatives and 55% of Welsh voters) back the government delaying its ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2035 however, 34% opposed.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/09/20/6d4f1/1
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    For some reason I thought Ken was a teetotaller.
    No idea why you thought that! He is - was - a famous boozer


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509257/Channel-4-film-attacks-Ken-Livingstones-astonishing-shocking-drinking-habits.html
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    I don't disagree with the sentiment but as a ceremonial only President should he really be making such political statements?
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,489
    edited September 2023
    All PBers - please stay away from Birmingham this weekend.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mass-xl-bully-walk-planned-27752197

    "Bring as many kids as possible"
  • Options
    TimS said:

    Weird fact: Spain leads the world in internet meme content.

    Josep Maria Garcia, snapped in Barcelona: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbreaking:_The_Worst_Person_You_Know_Just_Made_A_Great_Point

    3 young Spaniards in a stick photo taken in Barcelona: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distracted_boyfriend

    El Risitas: Spanish comedian https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/spanish-laughing-guy-el-risitas-interview-parodies

    I’m not sure the Gironese would thank you for saying they come from Barcelona…
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,682
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had between 3-400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,495
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The wthole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
    Actually, I think I probably would. LEON FOR LONDON

    But I would accept that this is my limit. I am not prime ministerial material. I am too easily distracted too easily bored, and my past life will not bear the scrutiny given to a potential PM. 10 years as a heroin addict is a hard sell, and all the tweeting from brothels could prove "tricky"

    Mayor of London, tho? Yeah, I could do that, and do it better than Khan. I would, at least, be funnier. Khan is so relentlessly humourless

    How did you stop the opiates?
    Narcotics Anonymous, in the end. I tried everything else - running away, hiding in Cornwall, taking Naltrexone, nothing worked - ultimately I had to face up to my addiction in my hometown: London

    I didn't do quite the sixty meetings in sixty days, but I did about 30 meetings in 90 days, It was like a course of psychological antibotics, and had to be completed

    I still drink (obviously) which you are not meant to do. But I have not ever gone back to heroin. I have been clean of heroin since the Spring Equinox of 2002, when I began attending NA meetings (and after a truly weird epiphany in Soho)
    Cheers, share a simillar personality. Avoided the opiates, though truthfully wouldn't have been introduced to them anyway.

    Always strange how easy it is to lie to yourself once over the edge.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    All PBers - please stay away from Birmingham this weekend.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mass-xl-bully-walk-planned-27752197

    "Bring as many kids as possible"

    What could go wrong?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Ken Livingstone diagnosed with Alzheimer's - BBC London

    Sad. Yes yes I know he was a quasi-Marxist anti-Semite with a weird Hitler obsession, but I always got the sense he enjoyed life, and REALLY enjoyed being a Londoner. A drinker and a hedonist and a big personality, exactly what London needs. He was a good mayor, even from my rightwing perspective

    So much better than the dismal Khan

    Safe travels, Red Ken

    A real shame.

    A reminder that time doesn't stand still for any of us... but I think out of any terminal illness Alzheimers/Dementia is probably the worst as it robs the sufferer of so much before eventually taking you to the eternal beyond.

    Poor Ken.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Theory: you cannot be a teetotaller and a good Mayor of London

    The wthole point of great world cities is Pleasure

    Pleasures that are artistic, culinary, architectural, sexual, intellectual, musical, literary, conversational, social, political, psychedelical. This is the POINT of great world cities. This is why you tolerate the crowding, the crime, the litter, the pollution, the noise, the hassle - otherwise you'd go live in a fucking redbrick semi in Cheshire or, indeed, a cottage in Provence or a farm in Idaho

    All this needs a tankard of beer or a glass of wine to wash it down, or something even stronger. Yet Sadiq Khan is teetotal. He is therefore a disaster: he doesn't *get* London on a fundamental level

    He is, however, a perfect MP for somewhere like Tooting. That was his level, and where he should have stayed

    "I would make a great London mayor"
    Actually, I think I probably would. LEON FOR LONDON

    But I would accept that this is my limit. I am not prime ministerial material. I am too easily distracted too easily bored, and my past life will not bear the scrutiny given to a potential PM. 10 years as a heroin addict is a hard sell, and all the tweeting from brothels could prove "tricky"

    Mayor of London, tho? Yeah, I could do that, and do it better than Khan. I would, at least, be funnier. Khan is so relentlessly humourless

    How did you stop the opiates?
    Narcotics Anonymous, in the end. I tried everything else - running away, hiding in Cornwall, taking Naltrexone, nothing worked - ultimately I had to face up to my addiction in my hometown: London

    I didn't do quite the sixty meetings in sixty days, but I did about 30 meetings in 90 days, It was like a course of psychological antibotics, and had to be completed

    I still drink (obviously) which you are not meant to do. But I have not ever gone back to heroin. I have been clean of heroin since the Spring Equinox of 2002, when I began attending NA meetings (and after a truly weird epiphany in Soho)
    Cheers, share a simillar personality. Avoided the opiates, though truthfully wouldn't have been introduced to them anyway.

    Always strange how easy it is to lie to yourself once over the edge.
    Indeed. Glad to hear you are clean!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Well that was partly why Meloni was elected and Vox and Le Pen are also rising in polls in southern Europe.

    However the declining European birthrate also means migration will still be needed but controlled migration
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Well that was partly why Meloni was elected and Vox and Le Pen are also rising in polls in southern Europe.

    However the declining European birthrate also means migration will still be needed but controlled migration
    Meloni has completely failed in her one major task: stop illegal immigration. It has doubled on her watch, She hasn't got the cullions to do anything real about it

    It will be interesting to see where Italian voters go next. Will they shrug and say Whatevs and accept no one can stop it, and go back to corrupt but charming social democrats who might govern quite well, or will they swing even further right and elect someone willing to use guns to defend the border?

    These awful choices will eventually face most European governments
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    Race relations are so much better in the UK than other European countries. No wonder the migrants want to come here.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Well that was partly why Meloni was elected and Vox and Le Pen are also rising in polls in southern Europe.

    However the declining European birthrate also means migration will still be needed but controlled migration
    Meloni has completely failed in her one major task: stop illegal immigration. It has doubled on her watch, She hasn't got the cullions to do anything real about it

    It will be interesting to see where Italian voters go next. Will they shrug and say Whatevs and accept no one can stop it, and go back to corrupt but charming social democrats who might govern quite well, or will they swing even further right and elect someone willing to use guns to defend the border?

    These awful choices will eventually face most European governments
    https://www.politico.eu/article/italy-prime-minister-giorgia-meloni-immigration-crackdown/
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,485
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    All that is true, but Zemmour is not wrong about the demographic imbalance between Europe and Africa. The population of Africa (close to Europe) is stil surging, even as Europe stagnates in its birthrates

    Add in the pressure of climate change on MENA and sub-Saharan Africa, and the failure of so many African societies - see the Sahel coup belt - and you have the recipe for a tsunami of unchecked migration into Old Europe

    A terrible reckoning is coming, however you slice it
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,484
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    And, of course, France's relatively high TFR is driven largely by migrant communities already in France. Ditto in the UK

    It's not white educated Catholic Frenchwomen who are suddenly having three or four kids
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,485
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
  • Options
    I see we have the decisive hard man version of Leon on tonight, rather than the terrified pearl-clutching version.

    Truly, he has the versatility to be either of the two both unconvincingly and for a mercifully fairly brief period of time. It is masterful.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,377
    Africa may have a big population, but it is also quite a big place. I know this because the point about Mercator projection gets made quite a lot.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080
    edited September 2023
    Effectively, Election 24 has begun today (yesterday)

    It's going to be lonnnngggg 12 months. Lets hope we all make it to the other side. 🙏
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080

    I see we have the decisive hard man version of Leon on tonight, rather than the terrified pearl-clutching version.

    Hmmmm... Sounds almost like Sean T (formally of this parish)
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,218
    edited September 2023
    Off topic: Cookery.

    Does anyone have good sweet or sweet & sour dip recipes?

    Had supper tonight with a friend who can't eat spice easily any more - due to bowel cancer recently treated.

    We had Gyoza Dumplings, and I made a sweet and sour (mainly sweet) dip with the following ingredients:

    Wine vinegar, maple syrup, peanut butter, lemon curd, small amount of soft brown sugar, and a smidge of mustard for heat, which worked very well.

    Does anyone have any other good recipes?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,485
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
    Here are your "top three" countries for TFR:



    Those lines are the very definition of collapsing (albeit at a multi-decade pace).

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,485
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Race relations are so much better in the UK than other European countries. No wonder the migrants want to come here.

    There are four reasons why migrants want to come to the UK:

    (1) Our economy is doing rather better than most places in Europe. Look at our unemployment rate compared to - say - Italy, and tell me you'd want to be in Italy.

    (2) We have a large informal economy, and it's very easy to get by without the proper (or indeed any) papers. Compare and contrast with Norway, the Netherlands, Denmark or Switzerland.

    (3) What's the language you're most likely to speak as a migrant? English. What language do we speak? English.

    (4) We have - candidly - a much more friendly society that is accepting of immigrants than most of Europe, with better race relations. (And there are probably many people from country [x] already here.)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
    Here are your "top three" countries for TFR:



    Those lines are the very definition of collapsing (albeit at a multi-decade pace).

    On no definition whatsoever is a 0.7 decline in TFR in Niger and a decline of 1 in TFR in Nigeria a 'collapse.'

    Both have TFRs almost 3 times replacement level for starters still
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    And, of course, France's relatively high TFR is driven largely by migrant communities already in France. Ditto in the UK

    It's not white educated Catholic Frenchwomen who are suddenly having three or four kids
    True albeit the religious tend to have more children.

    In the US for example Mormons have a TFR of 3.4, evangelical Protestants of 2.3 (same as Roman Catholics), Jews of 2.0 and Mainline Protestants of 1.9.

    Atheists however have a TFR of just 1.6 and agnostics of just 1.3
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/12/charted-the-religions-that-make-the-most-babies/
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
    Here are your "top three" countries for TFR:



    Those lines are the very definition of collapsing (albeit at a multi-decade pace).
    Even if in the long run they all trend to a TFR below two, a lot can happen in the meantime. I don't think it's a reason to downplay the disruption caused by current differential demographics.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    And, of course, France's relatively high TFR is driven largely by migrant communities already in France. Ditto in the UK

    It's not white educated Catholic Frenchwomen who are suddenly having three or four kids
    True albeit the religious tend to have more children.

    In the US for example Mormons have a TFR of 3.4, evangelical Protestants of 2.3 (same as Roman Catholics), Jews of 2.0 and Mainline Protestants of 1.9.

    Atheists however have a TFR of just 1.6 and agnostics of just 1.3
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/12/charted-the-religions-that-make-the-most-babies/
    The only significant number there is Mormons and they make up a tiny percentage of the population.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,245

    HMS Queen Elizabeth two-thirds empty as RAF fighter jets slashed
    The UK’s lead aircraft carrier is two-thirds empty as it leads a major deployment this autumn because of the “slaughter” of RAF fighter jet numbers in recent years.

    HMS Queen Elizabeth, the flagship of the Royal Navy, has the capacity to accommodate 36 F-35B Lightning jets and was designed to routinely carry up to 24 planes on operations.

    However, the 920ft long vessel is leading an international patrol around Norway and the North Atlantic with only eight fifth-generation fighters on board, meaning it will be two-thirds empty. When the USS Gerald R Ford, the largest American carrier, visited Norway earlier this year she had more than 40 aircraft on board, including dozens of F-18 fighter jets.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uks-lead-aircraft-carrier-two-thirds-empty-as-raf-fighter-jets-slashed-nfqqw8qrk (£££)

    Tory defence cuts go back decades. And that's leaving aside the matter of RAF jets on RN carriers.

    This article misses the point a bit. The constraint is the crew, not the aircraft. Although the MoD have gleefully siezed upon the cost savings by pushing the F-35B acquisition schedule to the right to match the trickle of crew that eventually emerge from the wreckage of MFTS. To date, "Joint Force Lightning" has generated 10 deck qualified crew and two of those are Americans on exchange so there's no point in having any more aircraft.

    The reason that QNLZ and the Kuznetsov are so fucking big is that they were designed around an utterly ludicrous rate of sortie generation so that "the Americans will take us seriously". The opinion of the US is a source of many sleepless nights in the upper echelons of the British defence establishment. As it turned out, the carriers will never be crewed or equipped to hit that very high sortie rate because the people to enable that just don't exist in anything more than a small fraction of those required.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,770
    edited September 2023
    It's quite something when Liz Truss's chancellor criticises the government from a green perspective, for changing the 2030 car targets.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    And, of course, France's relatively high TFR is driven largely by migrant communities already in France. Ditto in the UK

    It's not white educated Catholic Frenchwomen who are suddenly having three or four kids
    True albeit the religious tend to have more children.

    In the US for example Mormons have a TFR of 3.4, evangelical Protestants of 2.3 (same as Roman Catholics), Jews of 2.0 and Mainline Protestants of 1.9.
    Atheists however have a TFR
    of just 1.6 and agnostics of just 1.3
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/0
    5/12/charted-the-religions-
    that-make-the-most-babies/
    The only significant number there is Mormons and they make up a tiny percentage of the population.
    The significant number there is ALL Christian denominations and Jews have a higher average TFR than atheists and agnostics.

    Roman Catholics and evangelicals have a TFR above replacement level too, not just Mormons.

    Muslims also have an above average TFR
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,489
    edited September 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS Queen Elizabeth two-thirds empty as RAF fighter jets slashed
    The UK’s lead aircraft carrier is two-thirds empty as it leads a major deployment this autumn because of the “slaughter” of RAF fighter jet numbers in recent years.

    HMS Queen Elizabeth, the flagship of the Royal Navy, has the capacity to accommodate 36 F-35B Lightning jets and was designed to routinely carry up to 24 planes on operations.

    However, the 920ft long vessel is leading an international patrol around Norway and the North Atlantic with only eight fifth-generation fighters on board, meaning it will be two-thirds empty. When the USS Gerald R Ford, the largest American carrier, visited Norway earlier this year she had more than 40 aircraft on board, including dozens of F-18 fighter jets.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uks-lead-aircraft-carrier-two-thirds-empty-as-raf-fighter-jets-slashed-nfqqw8qrk (£££)

    Tory defence cuts go back decades. And that's leaving aside the matter of RAF jets on RN carriers.

    This article misses the point a bit. The constraint is the crew, not the aircraft. Although the MoD have gleefully siezed upon the cost savings by pushing the F-35B acquisition schedule to the right to match the trickle of crew that eventually emerge from the wreckage of MFTS. To date, "Joint Force Lightning" has generated 10 deck qualified crew and two of those are Americans on exchange so there's no point in having any more aircraft.

    The reason that QNLZ and the Kuznetsov are so fucking big is that they were designed around an utterly ludicrous rate of sortie generation so that "the Americans will take us seriously". The opinion of the US is a source of many sleepless nights in the upper echelons of the British defence establishment. As it turned out, the carriers will never be crewed or equipped to hit that very high sortie rate because the people to enable that just don't exist in anything more than a small fraction of those required.
    6 month submarine patrols probably don't help with recruitment

    https://twitter.com/SheilaLWeir/status/1701172772074926419?t=dwaslDOAM17kVMWeARoMLQ&s=19
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,485
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
    Here are your "top three" countries for TFR:



    Those lines are the very definition of collapsing (albeit at a multi-decade pace).

    On no definition whatsoever is a 0.7 decline in TFR in Niger and a decline of 1 in TFR in Nigeria a 'collapse.'

    Both have TFRs almost 3 times replacement level for starters still
    3x replacement is 6.3. (And in Africa replacement is more like 2.4 anyway, because many fewer fail to make it through to reproductive age.)

    Go look at the charts for much of less developed Asia. They're all where most of Africa was 20 years ago, and now they're below replacement.

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080

    This thread has been put back to 2035

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,660
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Strong language from the German president.

    "German president says country at ‘breaking point’ over migration"

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-migration-president-frank-walter-steinmeier-breaking-point/

    "Germany has ‘reached limit’ of its migrant intake, says president
    Frank-Walter Steinmeier called for stronger controls on Europe’s borders to help nation, which takes in third of those who reach EU"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/20/germany-migrants-reached-limit-president-borders/

    Eric Zemmour: “In 1900, Africa had 100 million people, while Europe had 300 or 400 million.

    Today Africa has 1.5 billion, of whom half are under the age of 25. In 20 years it will be 2 billion. One continent is overflowing into another.”


    https://x.com/zemmoureric/status/1704251818023231639
    He's not wrong. Europe has some stark choices

    Either we accept that Europe will become largely African (in race and culture), or we start towing the boats back and harshly defending the borders

    Both "solutions" will lead to quite serious distress, for many innocent humans. But those ARE the choices. Anyone who denies this is a liar and a charlatan: that means most politicians
    Except, of course, for the fact that some African countries already have birthrates below replacement. And even those that don't are seeing them collapse.

    If Zemmour had been making his pronouncements in 1980, he'd have talked about Bangladesh's runaway population growth. And yet now the total fertility ratio is below 2.

    Across Asia, populations are falling.

    The same is true of Eastern Europe.

    And Latin America has virtually no countries with TFRs above 2, and the first countries are beginning to see absolute population numbers decline.

    Africa isn't far behind.

    Collapse? Niger fertility rate 6.7, Nigeria fertility rate 5.1, Gambia fertility rate 4.5, Ivory Coast fertility rate 4.3, Kenya fertility rate 3.2, Algeria fertility rate 2.8.

    Italy fertility rate 1.3, Portugal fertility rate 1.4, Germany fertility rate 1.5, Hungary fertility rate 1.6, even France fertility rate only 1.8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate
    Collapsing means falling rapidly.

    That is, in fact, what is happening across Africa.

    This isn't one of those "oh, there are two sides to every story" and "it depends on how you look at it" things. TFRs are dropping in Africa, just as they have dropped everywhere else in the world.
    Here are your "top three" countries for TFR:



    Those lines are the very definition of collapsing (albeit at a multi-decade pace).

    On no definition whatsoever is a 0.7 decline in TFR in Niger and a decline of 1 in TFR in Nigeria a 'collapse.'

    Both have TFRs almost 3 times replacement level for starters still
    3x replacement is 6.3. (And in Africa replacement is more like 2.4 anyway, because many fewer fail to make it through to reproductive age.)

    Go look at the charts for much of less developed Asia. They're all where most of Africa was 20 years ago, and now they're below replacement.

    No they aren't, most of the Middle East and South Asia are still above replacement level.

    Only East Asia isn't
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,793
    This morning's Savanta 20% Labour lead is the highest since January.

    The Conservatives seem to be a busted flush. Time for change.


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