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Nadine Dorries quits an MP to help write Labour attack lines – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,794
edited September 2023 in General
Nadine Dorries quits an MP to help write Labour attack lines – politicalbetting.com

Conservative MP Nadine Dorries resigns Commons seat, two months after promising to quit, telling UK PM Rishi Sunak "history will not judge you kindly" https://t.co/gx0p7vvSiv

Read the full story here

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,335
    edited August 2023
    Go Nads, good riddance, but thanks for an exciting by election.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    edited August 2023
    She'd not have been the worst Peer ever created, but her personal bitterness about not getting it makes her letting rip less impactful. Not least since she could have done it months ago - what has she achieved by holding on long after she said she would, other than looking silly? She certainly hasn't gotten those answers she said she wanted, and her reputation locally went downhill with the stories she'd stopped working.
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    Even a broken clock can be right.

    Rishi is a bad PM, but of the reasons he is, it is not because he denied Mad Nads her bauble.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    kle4 said:

    She'd not have been the worst Peer ever created

    It's hard to imagine though that she could have been a worse peer than Charlotte Owen will be.

    The only skill she appears to have is exaggerating her CV.

    At least Dorries has had a job and was a minister (albeit a very shit one).

    (Incidentally the first Google auto fill on her name still speaks volumes as to why people think she was ennobled.)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    As was noted when she made her 'immediate' resignation ages ago, the LDs have proven they can win seats from a very distant third in the right sort of situation, despite the same arguments about fears of a split vote being advanced for those.

    However, in this seat it may be more likely as the gap between Lab and LD is larger than in some others, and the LDs are starting from even further back.

    I think Con could hold in those circumstances, but feel like some Tory locals will want to teach the party a lesson - from a Dorries direction wanting to punish Sunak, and from a general unhappyness position.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,529
    FPT

    Nevermind Paul Flowers. What about Brandon? He’s on the BBC at Reading Festival and I’m looking out for my son who’s somewhere in the crowd and by all accounts (from a few scarce texts) is having the time of his life.

    And there was talk of Mormons above too.

    The Killers set makes me feel doubly inadequate. It reminds me I’m now too old for pop festivals (or rather, too old to go to a pop festival without standing out as above the recommended age limit); and it reminds me I will never be as irritatingly good looking as Brandon Flowers, who is admittedly a few years younger than me.

    And on topic, I think is is probably one worth Labour and Lib Dems both going hell for leather on, even if the Tories sneak through as a result.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    edited August 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Some of them are even accurate.

    It's just they apply, frequently with more force, to her as well.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,900
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66626866

    On the spanish kissing story, this article on the BBC website is really poor reporting. It purports to be an account of the situation but gives no sense that there may be an other side of the story, nor that there may be other countervailing social forces in Spain. It actually just reads a jubilant facebook post from one side on the culture war. Obviously a lot of people on here will like it and fair enough, but the BBC has to drop it's claim to be 'impartial'. You can just make your choice between it and GB News, the output is at the same level.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    I feel like a lot of Boris fans are angry at Sunak for insufficient loyalty, but at the end of the day pretty much everyone was quitting in that period, and then he kept his mouth shut publicy during the Trussian period (I assume he was more active behind the scenes). Dorries never had a problem bad mouthing leaders, which I'm also fine with, you need MPs like that, but it's hard to condemn disloyalty in those situations.
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    Well.


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    The Metropolitan Police is on high alert following a significant security breach that led to officers' and staff's details being hacked.

    All 47,000 personnel have been notified about the potential exposure of their photographs, names, and ranks, The Sun newspaper reported.

    The breach occurred when cybercriminals managed to infiltrate the IT systems of a contractor responsible for printing warrant cards and staff passes.

    In response to the report, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police told Sky News: "We have been made aware of unauthorised access to the IT system of a Met supplier.

    "We are working with the company to understand if there has been any security breach relating to Metropolitan Police data."


    https://news.sky.com/story/met-police-admits-details-of-officers-at-risk-of-exposure-after-warrant-card-supplier-was-hacked-12948602
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,900
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Nevermind Paul Flowers. What about Brandon? He’s on the BBC at Reading Festival and I’m looking out for my son who’s somewhere in the crowd and by all accounts (from a few scarce texts) is having the time of his life.

    And there was talk of Mormons above too.

    The Killers set makes me feel doubly inadequate. It reminds me I’m now too old for pop festivals (or rather, too old to go to a pop festival without standing out as above the recommended age limit); and it reminds me I will never be as irritatingly good looking as Brandon Flowers, who is admittedly a few years younger than me.

    And on topic, I think is is probably one worth Labour and Lib Dems both going hell for leather on, even if the Tories sneak through as a result.

    Isn't it the case that the live music industry largely exists for affluent middle aged people?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    I was reading this piece about Yousaf and saying the Sindy movement has never been strong, which whatever he has to say whether it is true or not so it's not worth assessing if it is, but I was interested in his comment about 'repopulating' rural areas.

    He admitted there were divisions within SNP but insisted independence “is closer now than it ever has been” with nearly 75,000 SNP members.

    Mr Yousaf added: “It’s so important first of all, that even in the face of let’s be frank, some of the most difficult weeks and months in our party’s history, support for independence remains rock solid.”

    He called for a “legally binding referendum” and said “humane migration” could help repopulate rural areas of Scotland such as Dumfries and Galloway, and the Borders.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/humza-yousaf-says-support-for-independence-has-never-been-stronger/ar-AA1fOqxR?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=fdfb5bfcc3504b28cc8a1a4604a5be1c&ei=7

    Now, I don't really know those areas, though my dad used to live in the Dumfries and Galloway region for a time, and I'm not going to say anything negative about them as a result, but when you have migrants how often do they go for the less populated, rural areas, which presumably have fewer current migrants?

    It's happened in the USA I'd guess, with those big empty areas out west and German settlers and the like, but are there recent examples of being able to encourage migrants to settle into depopulated rural areas?
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660

    The Metropolitan Police is on high alert following a significant security breach that led to officers' and staff's details being hacked.

    All 47,000 personnel have been notified about the potential exposure of their photographs, names, and ranks, The Sun newspaper reported.

    The breach occurred when cybercriminals managed to infiltrate the IT systems of a contractor responsible for printing warrant cards and staff passes.

    In response to the report, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police told Sky News: "We have been made aware of unauthorised access to the IT system of a Met supplier.

    "We are working with the company to understand if there has been any security breach relating to Metropolitan Police data."


    https://news.sky.com/story/met-police-admits-details-of-officers-at-risk-of-exposure-after-warrant-card-supplier-was-hacked-12948602

    Is there something concerted going on?!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    The Metropolitan Police is on high alert following a significant security breach that led to officers' and staff's details being hacked.

    All 47,000 personnel have been notified about the potential exposure of their photographs, names, and ranks, The Sun newspaper reported.

    The breach occurred when cybercriminals managed to infiltrate the IT systems of a contractor responsible for printing warrant cards and staff passes.

    In response to the report, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police told Sky News: "We have been made aware of unauthorised access to the IT system of a Met supplier.

    "We are working with the company to understand if there has been any security breach relating to Metropolitan Police data."


    https://news.sky.com/story/met-police-admits-details-of-officers-at-risk-of-exposure-after-warrant-card-supplier-was-hacked-12948602

    It's a day ending in Y, so there must be a negative story about the Met.

    Granted this one is a of a different kind than the usual reason.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,529
    kle4 said:

    I was reading this piece about Yousaf and saying the Sindy movement has never been strong, which whatever he has to say whether it is true or not so it's not worth assessing if it is, but I was interested in his comment about 'repopulating' rural areas.

    He admitted there were divisions within SNP but insisted independence “is closer now than it ever has been” with nearly 75,000 SNP members.

    Mr Yousaf added: “It’s so important first of all, that even in the face of let’s be frank, some of the most difficult weeks and months in our party’s history, support for independence remains rock solid.”

    He called for a “legally binding referendum” and said “humane migration” could help repopulate rural areas of Scotland such as Dumfries and Galloway, and the Borders.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/humza-yousaf-says-support-for-independence-has-never-been-stronger/ar-AA1fOqxR?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=fdfb5bfcc3504b28cc8a1a4604a5be1c&ei=7

    Now, I don't really know those areas, though my dad used to live in the Dumfries and Galloway region for a time, and I'm not going to say anything negative about them as a result, but when you have migrants how often do they go for the less populated, rural areas, which presumably have fewer current migrants?

    It's happened in the USA I'd guess, with those big empty areas out west and German settlers and the like, but are there recent examples of being able to encourage migrants to settle into depopulated rural areas?

    You certainly got more points to immigrate to Canada if you put Yukon ahead of Ontario.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    Zelensky part of the Usyk build up
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    Given Dorries essentially gave up working as an MP months ago, and as Rob Ford in the header notes the LDs have basically been camped out in the seat for months already, some people locally might well assume they already have a LD MP.

    I jest, but I remain skeptical that parties 'giving a free run' is necessarily as impactful as they think. We get inconsistent reports about how much candidates are really trying, and how much support they have, in these situations, especially as they rarely openly admit they are doing that. I suspect it's all much murkier and more fluid, and that the confused mass of the public in the seat can just sort of align on who makes most sense as the main anti-Tory candidate regardless.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,938
    Pulpstar said:

    Zelensky part of the Usyk build up

    I'm sure that was meant to convey something...
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,529
    darkage said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Nevermind Paul Flowers. What about Brandon? He’s on the BBC at Reading Festival and I’m looking out for my son who’s somewhere in the crowd and by all accounts (from a few scarce texts) is having the time of his life.

    And there was talk of Mormons above too.

    The Killers set makes me feel doubly inadequate. It reminds me I’m now too old for pop festivals (or rather, too old to go to a pop festival without standing out as above the recommended age limit); and it reminds me I will never be as irritatingly good looking as Brandon Flowers, who is admittedly a few years younger than me.

    And on topic, I think is is probably one worth Labour and Lib Dems both going hell for leather on, even if the Tories sneak through as a result.

    Isn't it the case that the live music industry largely exists for affluent middle aged people?
    There may be hope yet. Though looking like Brandon Flowers might be a step too far.
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    Well.


    "Met Police ... exposure ..."

    Makes a pleasant change that this Police scandal isn't about Police engaging in indecent exposure or other behaviour towards members of the public.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141

    Pulpstar said:

    Zelensky part of the Usyk build up

    I'm sure that was meant to convey something...
    Putin's probably made an error invading such a self confident nation tbh
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    edited August 2023
    Blimey, seems like a lot of effort to go to for small reward.

    Thieves in Switzerland have conquered one of the country's most challenging protected climbing routes.

    They ascended to an altitude of 2,350m and traversed gorges on narrow steel cables - all to rob a collection box...

    The donation box was found smashed open and empty. The thieves were not only good climbers, equipped with all the necessary mountaineering kit, they took the tools with them to break open the donation box "with brute force" the climbing club said.

    Astonishingly, it appears they then continued their ascent, with the money, to the top of the Dauberhorn, at 2941 metres...

    The climbing club is not sure exactly how much money was stolen; but club member and mountain guide Richard Werlen told the BBC it was likely to be at least 400-500 Swiss francs (€420-520; $450-560).
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    Nigelb said:

    As Bryant suggests, Dorries might have a future career writing Labour election messaging.

    ...Dorries, who was elected as an MP in May 2005, added: “What exactly has been done or have you [Sunak] achieved? You hold the office of prime minister unelected, without a single vote, not even from your own MPs.

    “You have no mandate from the people, and the government is adrift. You have squandered the goodwill of the nation, for what?”..

    If Nads had actually got her peerage, would she have had "a mandate from the people"? Would she not be "unelected, without a single vote, not even from [her] own MPs"?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    edited August 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Zelensky part of the Usyk build up

    I'm sure that was meant to convey something...
    Les sanglots longs
    Des violons
    De l'automne

    Edit: seriously, think it means the Usyk fight (boxer)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    Oh well, another unexpected night in Warsaw. Thankfully the hotel is right outside, is 5*, and has five people working the check-in queue.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141

    Well.


    "Met Police ... exposure ..."

    Makes a pleasant change that this Police scandal isn't about Police engaging in indecent exposure or other behaviour towards members of the public.
    Yes, only 45,000 men and women who put themselves on the line on a daily basis potentially endangered here. No big deal I'm sure.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    TimS said:

    darkage said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Nevermind Paul Flowers. What about Brandon? He’s on the BBC at Reading Festival and I’m looking out for my son who’s somewhere in the crowd and by all accounts (from a few scarce texts) is having the time of his life.

    And there was talk of Mormons above too.

    The Killers set makes me feel doubly inadequate. It reminds me I’m now too old for pop festivals (or rather, too old to go to a pop festival without standing out as above the recommended age limit); and it reminds me I will never be as irritatingly good looking as Brandon Flowers, who is admittedly a few years younger than me.

    And on topic, I think is is probably one worth Labour and Lib Dems both going hell for leather on, even if the Tories sneak through as a result.

    Isn't it the case that the live music industry largely exists for affluent middle aged people?
    There may be hope yet. Though looking like Brandon Flowers might be a step too far.
    Never understand the age thing. At metal gigs, we have multiple generations. At the last Metallica gig I did, had fans older than the band. While teenagers were getting ready for the mosh pit. And every age in between.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217
    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.
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    Reasons that Rishi Sunak is a bad PM.

    1: He's freezing tax thresholds at a time of high inflation, so that take home pay is down even if people get an inflation-meeting pay rise.

    2: He's encouraging below-inflation pay rises.

    3: He's opposing the construction of much needed housing.

    4: Taxes are continuously going up on those working for a living, while spending goes up on client voters who aren't.

    5: No positive vision for growing the economy.

    6: Spending is being redirected towards client voters instead of investment.

    ...

    976,456,159 An ex-MP didn't get her promised bauble.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    Pulpstar said:

    Well.


    "Met Police ... exposure ..."

    Makes a pleasant change that this Police scandal isn't about Police engaging in indecent exposure or other behaviour towards members of the public.
    Yes, only 45,000 men and women who put themselves on the line on a daily basis potentially endangered here. No big deal I'm sure.
    That’s nuts. I used to work for a company with 10k employees, and they had a secure office with a very expensive printer for ID cards.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,394
    I don’t get the Lib Dem confidence in Mid Beds, feels far more like a Lab prospect to me.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Well.


    "Met Police ... exposure ..."

    Makes a pleasant change that this Police scandal isn't about Police engaging in indecent exposure or other behaviour towards members of the public.
    Yes, only 45,000 men and women who put themselves on the line on a daily basis potentially endangered here. No big deal I'm sure.
    It. Was. A. Joke.

    Maybe a bad one, but one grounded in truth after all that's happened over the past 12 months of Met Officers abusing women; of course its a big deal.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,271
    Sunak vows to put vilest killers in jail for whole life in the week Letby receives...erm...

    ...a whole life term.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,000
    edited August 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour came second in 2019:

    Conservative Nadine Dorries 38,692 59.8 −1.8
    Labour Rhiannon Meades 14,028 21.7 −6.7
    Lib Dem Rachel McGann 8,171 12.6 +6.6
    Green Gareth Ellis 2,478 3.8 +1.0
    Independent Alan Victor 812 1.3 New
    Monster Raving Ann Kelly 536 0.8 −0.3
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217
    edited August 2023
    Missed the previous thread, which is Sod's Law because it's one of the best headers I've seen for a long time.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    I don’t get the Lib Dem confidence in Mid Beds, feels far more like a Lab prospect to me.

    Displaying such confidence, they hope, will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

    It worked in Tiverton, among others, though Labour are further ahead in this one than those.
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    Sunak vows to put vilest killers in jail for whole life in the week Letby receives...erm...

    ...a whole life term.

    Sunak is a political bed blocker. He's there not to do anything, but just to manage decline and support the status quo, while preventing Downing Street from being occupied by someone who wants to take any action like ensuring homes are built or literally anything else.

    He's possibly realised that setting 'goals' of things to achieve is difficult, even 'reducing inflation' when inflation is falling globally now and will fall without the government doing anything.

    Better for him to set goals of things that we're already doing, then he can say mission accomplished by not doing anything and saying that his goal has been achieved.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    First 2 rounds to Usyk
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019
    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour are second and won Selby and Ainsty on a smaller swing than this requires.

    If Labour can win Selby, why should Labour not go full gas for Mid Beds?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141

    Pulpstar said:

    Well.


    "Met Police ... exposure ..."

    Makes a pleasant change that this Police scandal isn't about Police engaging in indecent exposure or other behaviour towards members of the public.
    Yes, only 45,000 men and women who put themselves on the line on a daily basis potentially endangered here. No big deal I'm sure.
    It. Was. A. Joke.

    Maybe a bad one, but one grounded in truth after all that's happened over the past 12 months of Met Officers abusing women; of course its a big deal.
    Far more Ratanas in the MET than Couzens
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Oh, I think with 57 to choose from he's probably able to climb of the very bottom of the list.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811
    darkage said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Nevermind Paul Flowers. What about Brandon? He’s on the BBC at Reading Festival and I’m looking out for my son who’s somewhere in the crowd and by all accounts (from a few scarce texts) is having the time of his life.

    And there was talk of Mormons above too.

    The Killers set makes me feel doubly inadequate. It reminds me I’m now too old for pop festivals (or rather, too old to go to a pop festival without standing out as above the recommended age limit); and it reminds me I will never be as irritatingly good looking as Brandon Flowers, who is admittedly a few years younger than me.

    And on topic, I think is is probably one worth Labour and Lib Dems both going hell for leather on, even if the Tories sneak through as a result.

    Isn't it the case that the live music industry largely exists for affluent middle aged people?
    Not exclusively, but the music festival crowd has a much greater age range than 35 years ago when I first went.

    It depends on who you go to see what the age of the audience is.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,972
    I would say Sunak did not abandon the core principles of conservatism in the way that Dorries’ candidate Truss did.

    Anyway onto the by election which both Labour and the Liberal Democrats will likely target and will be a challenge for the Conservatives to hold on current polls and midterm protest vote
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    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had

    Oh that's going a bit far.

    He's not even the most manifestly inadequate and damaging PM we've had in the past decade.

    He's a dud, yes. A waste of space, yes. He's going to waste the last 2 years the Tories hold Downing Street. He's simply not up to the job and doesn't have anything to do.

    But PMs who do the wrong thing, are more damaging than PMs who do nothing like Sunak.

    He's basically leaving the country to decline on auto-pilot, he's not crashing the plane.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,392
    Opposition voters in Mid Beds are going to be split and so I see the Tories holding the seat. They had a huge majority at the last GE and it would be astonishing if they lost this seat against a split opposition.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,529

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour are second and won Selby and Ainsty on a smaller swing than this requires.

    If Labour can win Selby, why should Labour not go full gas for Mid Beds?
    This is going to be fascinating.

    1. Labour victory: confirms they are on course, and can win in the semi-rural Home Counties
    2. Lib Dem victory: yet more evidence they will destroy the Tories in the blue wall
    3. Tory hold: signs of trouble ahead for the tactical voting coalition, and another Uxbridge-style straw in the wind that things might not be all that bad for them after all
    4. Tories third: lol

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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,986
    Much as I have little time for Ms Dorries, her resignation letter certainly got to the heart of the matter regarding the takeover of the party formerly known as The Conservatives.

    "It became clear to me as I worked that remaining as a back bencher was incompatible with publishing a book which exposes how the democratic process at the heart of our party has been corrupted."

    and

    "Since you took office a year ago, the country is run by a zombie Parliament where nothing meaningful has happened. What exactly has been done or have you achieved?"

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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019

    Reasons that Rishi Sunak is a bad PM.

    1: He's freezing tax thresholds at a time of high inflation, so that take home pay is down even if people get an inflation-meeting pay rise.

    2: He's encouraging below-inflation pay rises.

    3: He's opposing the construction of much needed housing.

    4: Taxes are continuously going up on those working for a living, while spending goes up on client voters who aren't.

    5: No positive vision for growing the economy.

    6: Spending is being redirected towards client voters instead of investment.

    ...

    976,456,159 An ex-MP didn't get her promised bauble.

    But the lack of bauble for Nad demonstrates Rishi's lack of political acumen. This outcome was inevitable. And as someone else said, would she really be the worst thing in the HOL? She wasn't even the worst thing on Bojo's list.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,271
    HYUFD said:

    I would say Sunak did not abandon the core principles of conservatism in the way that Dorries’ candidate Truss did.

    Anyway onto the by election which both Labour and the Liberal Democrats will likely target and will be a challenge for the Conservatives to hold on current polls and midterm protest vote

    Labour are 6 on BF.

    Got to be value if it is true they are going for it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,271
    edited August 2023

    Reasons that Rishi Sunak is a bad PM.

    1: He's freezing tax thresholds at a time of high inflation, so that take home pay is down even if people get an inflation-meeting pay rise.

    2: He's encouraging below-inflation pay rises.

    3: He's opposing the construction of much needed housing.

    4: Taxes are continuously going up on those working for a living, while spending goes up on client voters who aren't.

    5: No positive vision for growing the economy.

    6: Spending is being redirected towards client voters instead of investment.

    ...

    976,456,159 An ex-MP didn't get her promised bauble.

    Still, it looks like his precious 'AI is going to kill us all' global conference is going ahead at Bletchley Park.

  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,396
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had

    Oh that's going a bit far.

    He's not even the most manifestly inadequate and damaging PM we've had in the past decade.

    He's a dud, yes. A waste of space, yes. He's going to waste the last 2 years the Tories hold Downing Street. He's simply not up to the job and doesn't have anything to do.

    But PMs who do the wrong thing, are more damaging than PMs who do nothing like Sunak.

    He's basically leaving the country to decline on auto-pilot, he's not crashing the plane.
    If the plane is crashing, 'doing nothing' is absolutely the most wrong and damaging thing to do, and 'doing something' is the least damaging option. Clearly that's where we differ.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Oh, I think with 57 to choose from he's probably able to climb of the very bottom of the list.
    To be fair, I've only studied post Lord Liverpool, so if there were any pre-that (Walpoles or Pitts) that were worse, I apologise. I'm also not including any ye olde worlde ones like the keeper of Henry VIII's privy or whatever. But since Liverpool, I'm not aware of any crappier. Feel free to name and shame.
  • Options

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had

    Oh that's going a bit far.

    He's not even the most manifestly inadequate and damaging PM we've had in the past decade.

    He's a dud, yes. A waste of space, yes. He's going to waste the last 2 years the Tories hold Downing Street. He's simply not up to the job and doesn't have anything to do.

    But PMs who do the wrong thing, are more damaging than PMs who do nothing like Sunak.

    He's basically leaving the country to decline on auto-pilot, he's not crashing the plane.
    If the plane is crashing, 'doing nothing' is absolutely the most wrong and damaging thing to do, and 'doing something' is the least damaging option. Clearly that's where we differ.
    The plane isn't crashing though.

    The UK is a developed economy that is doing OK. We could do better, we could do worse.

    He's "meh" more than actively harmful. Not remotely good enough to PM, but not a disaster either.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    It's full of some remarkable and blatant skulduggery for such a small community. Just a taste.

    Braxton followed all of the legal procedures to declare his candidacy, despite Stokes’s efforts to obscure from residents that they could run for mayor or for the council...

    Because the town had never had a proper election, Stokes argues that they could not have known it was illegal for them to attempt to uphold their positions through a closed election.

    “There is no clearly established law regarding what to do when an Alabama town does not hold elections for decades,” their brief said.

    The “elected” councilmembers[this relates to allies of the old mayor filing late papers for an 'election', but not telling anyone about it, so declaring themselves council members by default) started holding meetings without telling Braxton. Then, because he wasn’t attending the meetings, they voted him out as mayor and appointed Stokes instead.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    Pulpstar said:

    First 2 rounds to Usyk

    Ooh, had forgotten this was on. Thanks.
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    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Oh, I think with 57 to choose from he's probably able to climb of the very bottom of the list.
    To be fair, I've only studied post Lord Liverpool, so if there were any pre-that (Walpoles or Pitts) that were worse, I apologise. I'm also not including any ye olde worlde ones like the keeper of Henry VIII's privy or whatever. But since Liverpool, I'm not aware of any crappier. Feel free to name and shame.
    Easy: Theresa May.

    At a time where the country had voted to Leave the EU, she utterly failed to draw a consensus either on her own side or across Parliament in order to find a way to do so. This was much worse for business investment etc than today's failure to act by Sunak, as we needed a solution and firms needed to know what was going to happen.

    After losing her proposal by 230 votes in the first "meaningful vote", the worst defeat by any Prime Minister on any issue ever in modern times, she had no solution other than to refuse to take no for an answer and to keep retabling the same proposal without changes hoping without reason that Parliament would eventually change its mind.

    Her Premiership was an unmitigated disaster that meant even Boris Johnson was positive in comparison in being able to get a solution through Parliament unlike her. To be less collegiate, less able to shepherd Parliament than even Boris Johnson shows just how utterly awful she was.

    Even without getting into my personal gripes about her being a horrid xenophobe or citizens of nowhere etc
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had

    Oh that's going a bit far.

    He's not even the most manifestly inadequate and damaging PM we've had in the past decade.

    He's a dud, yes. A waste of space, yes. He's going to waste the last 2 years the Tories hold Downing Street. He's simply not up to the job and doesn't have anything to do.

    But PMs who do the wrong thing, are more damaging than PMs who do nothing like Sunak.

    He's basically leaving the country to decline on auto-pilot, he's not crashing the plane.
    If the plane is crashing, 'doing nothing' is absolutely the most wrong and damaging thing to do, and 'doing something' is the least damaging option. Clearly that's where we differ.
    The plane isn't crashing though.

    The UK is a developed economy that is doing OK. We could do better, we could do worse.

    He's "meh" more than actively harmful. Not remotely good enough to PM, but not a disaster either.
    He has actively harmed inward investment with his CT hike. He has actively harmed domestic energy production with his windfall tax and tinkering with allowances. He has actively harmed public finances by agreeing to fund the BOE's bond sell off. One could go on. Other than that, he's maintained the current course of keeping EU regulations and laws, deference to our bloated CS and quangocracy, increasing the tax burden, favouring imported goods, food and energy over domestic, failing to provide houses for people to live in etc. If we were on a satisfactory political trajectory, steady eddy would be fine. We're not, so it's not.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    Dubois happy to hear the bell at the end of the 7th. One way traffic from Usyk.
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    kle4 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    It's full of some remarkable and blatant skulduggery for such a small community. Just a taste.

    Braxton followed all of the legal procedures to declare his candidacy, despite Stokes’s efforts to obscure from residents that they could run for mayor or for the council...

    Because the town had never had a proper election, Stokes argues that they could not have known it was illegal for them to attempt to uphold their positions through a closed election.

    “There is no clearly established law regarding what to do when an Alabama town does not hold elections for decades,” their brief said.

    The “elected” councilmembers[this relates to allies of the old mayor filing late papers for an 'election', but not telling anyone about it, so declaring themselves council members by default) started holding meetings without telling Braxton. Then, because he wasn’t attending the meetings, they voted him out as mayor and appointed Stokes instead.
    A town of 133 people with its own town hall. And council. And apparently several locksmiths.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,408

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    "Later, a Black woman flagged Braxton down to tell him her elderly sister had gone into cardiac arrest. Braxton ran to the fire department to get a defibrillator, but he had been locked out of the building. He drove home, returned to the department, got the machine and tried to revive the woman, but it was too late."

    Jesus.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    edited August 2023
    Usyk in the 9th! 🇺🇦
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,019

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Oh, I think with 57 to choose from he's probably able to climb of the very bottom of the list.
    To be fair, I've only studied post Lord Liverpool, so if there were any pre-that (Walpoles or Pitts) that were worse, I apologise. I'm also not including any ye olde worlde ones like the keeper of Henry VIII's privy or whatever. But since Liverpool, I'm not aware of any crappier. Feel free to name and shame.
    Easy: Theresa May.

    At a time where the country had voted to Leave the EU, she utterly failed to draw a consensus either on her own side or across Parliament in order to find a way to do so. This was much worse for business investment etc than today's failure to act by Sunak, as we needed a solution and firms needed to know what was going to happen.

    After losing her proposal by 230 votes in the first "meaningful vote", the worst defeat by any Prime Minister on any issue ever in modern times, she had no solution other than to refuse to take no for an answer and to keep retabling the same proposal without changes hoping without reason that Parliament would eventually change its mind.

    Her Premiership was an unmitigated disaster that meant even Boris Johnson was positive in comparison in being able to get a solution through Parliament unlike her. To be less collegiate, less able to shepherd Parliament than even Boris Johnson shows just how utterly awful she was.

    Even without getting into my personal gripes about her being a horrid xenophobe or citizens of nowhere etc
    Theresa May was fairly crap, with a share of the blame for her crapness going to 'spreadsheet Phil'. However, I do remember her, however hopelessly, attempting to adhere to her red lines when negotiating with the EU. I give her some credit for that, when it appears that Sunak's approach to negotiating with the EU is to ask them how many zeros they'd like on their cheque.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,386
    Rishi's spin doctors did reasonably well with ITN News: headline mostly made Nadine look a nut.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    Come on boxing promotors, make Usyk v Fury happen.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    This in a state which apparently has a higher GDP per head than many European countries, including the UK.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour are second and won Selby and Ainsty on a smaller swing than this requires.

    If Labour can win Selby, why should Labour not go full gas for Mid Beds?
    This is going to be fascinating.

    1. Labour victory: confirms they are on course, and can win in the semi-rural Home Counties
    2. Lib Dem victory: yet more evidence they will destroy the Tories in the blue wall
    3. Tory hold: signs of trouble ahead for the tactical voting coalition, and another Uxbridge-style straw in the wind that things might not be all that bad for them after all
    4. Tories third: lol

    Not much chance of the Tories coming third. They should get at least 35%.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,392

    HYUFD said:

    I would say Sunak did not abandon the core principles of conservatism in the way that Dorries’ candidate Truss did.

    Anyway onto the by election which both Labour and the Liberal Democrats will likely target and will be a challenge for the Conservatives to hold on current polls and midterm protest vote

    Labour are 6 on BF.

    Got to be value if it is true they are going for it.
    We are. I've taken the 6 - now down to 4.6.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754

    HYUFD said:

    I would say Sunak did not abandon the core principles of conservatism in the way that Dorries’ candidate Truss did.

    Anyway onto the by election which both Labour and the Liberal Democrats will likely target and will be a challenge for the Conservatives to hold on current polls and midterm protest vote

    Labour are 6 on BF.

    Got to be value if it is true they are going for it.
    We are. I've taken the 6 - now down to 4.6.
    That’s great value after the Opinium poll. Do we know anything about this independent?

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    kle4 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    It's full of some remarkable and blatant skulduggery for such a small community. Just a taste.

    Braxton followed all of the legal procedures to declare his candidacy, despite Stokes’s efforts to obscure from residents that they could run for mayor or for the council...

    Because the town had never had a proper election, Stokes argues that they could not have known it was illegal for them to attempt to uphold their positions through a closed election.

    “There is no clearly established law regarding what to do when an Alabama town does not hold elections for decades,” their brief said.

    The “elected” councilmembers[this relates to allies of the old mayor filing late papers for an 'election', but not telling anyone about it, so declaring themselves council members by default) started holding meetings without telling Braxton. Then, because he wasn’t attending the meetings, they voted him out as mayor and appointed Stokes instead.
    A town of 133 people with its own town hall. And council. And apparently several locksmiths.
    I was going to say local government is simply a bigger deal in america, but that's partly why I'm so surprised they've gotten so crazy over actually having an election, and needing to get litigious.

    There are many parishes in this country with around that many electors or fewer, though if you are creating new parish of that size if would not have a council, but only a Meeting. And of course there'd be far fewer powers. They might have a village hall, if they are lucky and they had one from a time when they were larger and it was suitably set up to be sustained into the future.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    Sandpit said:

    Come on boxing promotors, make Usyk v Fury happen.

    How much money would it take? Seems like it should be possible to get to whatever is the price, but here we are still.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    Never a safe job even in the best of conditions.

    One of Ukraine's most celebrated fighter pilots and two other airmen have been killed in a mid-air crash.

    Andrii Pilshchykov won fame taking part in dogfights over Kyiv during the early phase of Russia's invasion.

    The Ukrainian military called the airmen's deaths "painful and irreparable" losses, and paid tribute to Pilshchykov as a pilot with "mega knowledge and mega talent".

    The crash involved two L-39 training planes flying over northern Ukraine


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66631182
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,972
    edited August 2023

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    Oh, I think with 57 to choose from he's probably able to climb of the very bottom of the list.
    To be fair, I've only studied post Lord Liverpool, so if there were any pre-that (Walpoles or Pitts) that were worse, I apologise. I'm also not including any ye olde worlde ones like the keeper of Henry VIII's privy or whatever. But since Liverpool, I'm not aware of any crappier. Feel free to name and shame.
    Easy: Theresa May.

    At a time where the country had voted to Leave the EU, she utterly failed to draw a consensus either on her own side or across Parliament in order to find a way to do so. This was much worse for business investment etc than today's failure to act by Sunak, as we needed a solution and firms needed to know what was going to happen.

    After losing her proposal by 230 votes in the first "meaningful vote", the worst defeat by any Prime Minister on any issue ever in modern times, she had no solution other than to refuse to take no for an answer and to keep retabling the same proposal without changes hoping without reason that Parliament would eventually change its mind.

    Her Premiership was an unmitigated disaster that meant even Boris Johnson was positive in comparison in being able to get a solution through Parliament unlike her. To be less collegiate, less able to shepherd Parliament than even Boris Johnson shows just how utterly awful she was.

    Even without getting into my personal gripes about her being a horrid xenophobe or citizens of nowhere etc
    May’s Deal was not a bad one overall and better for Northern Ireland than Boris’ which even the Windsor Framework has not fully resolved in terms of differences between GB and NI even if it has removed checks. Truss, Brown, Callaghan, Heath and Eden just in the postwar period were worse than May and Sunak
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Come on boxing promotors, make Usyk v Fury happen.

    How much money would it take? Seems like it should be possible to get to whatever is the price, but here we are still.
    Surely it’s the most expensive fight in history, for whoever can pull it off and get the two of them in the same place. A lot of boxing politics to get cleared out of the way first though.

    That said, I missed the low blow in this fight, which Dubois and Frank Warren are now suggesting leads to a rematch here first. Lots of argument on both sides on where to draw the line on low blows, which depends to some extent on the briefing to the fighters from the referee before they started.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    edited August 2023
    Reasonably large changes coming to Mid Bedfordshire from the looks of it, around 20% loss of land area, but doesn't at a glance look significant for future GEs (unsurprisingly given the majority in 1997 was still 7k). I presume the current seat is simply over large.

    (shaded area current constituency)

    (shaded area new constituency)

    https://commonslibrary.shinyapps.io/new_constituencies_insight/
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Come on boxing promotors, make Usyk v Fury happen.

    How much money would it take? Seems like it should be possible to get to whatever is the price, but here we are still.
    Surely it’s the most expensive fight in history, for whoever can pull it off and get the two of them in the same place. A lot of boxing politics to get cleared out of the way first though.

    That said, I missed the low blow in this fight, which Dubois and Frank Warren are now suggesting leads to a rematch here first. Lots of argument on both sides on where to draw the line on low blows, which depends to some extent on the briefing to the fighters from the referee before they started.
    I think the punch might have very very slightly clipped his cup. Technically in the low area but not his bollocks.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754
    edited August 2023
    @BartholomewRoberts FPT, those fans on Amazon look okay to me. It’s difficult to actually damage a laptop with crap replacements, because the driver software works on actual temperature and shuts things down if they get too hot. Somewhere in the driver software will be a temp reading you can refer to, before and after the swap.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,021
    Is ULEZ a similar political mistake to the poll tax? They both left most people unaffected while hitting other politically important groups in a really obvious way.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,754

    Is ULEZ a similar political mistake to the poll tax? They both left most people unaffected while hitting other politically important groups in a really obvious way.

    Here’s the attack lines getting tested: “Labour's carless society”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12448979/Secret-plan-change-drivers-mile-Ulez-start-Labours-carless-society.html
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/26/black-mayor-alabama-town-locked-out

    Quite an extraordinary story. Alabama, in the twenty-first century.

    It is an extraordinary story.

  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Is ULEZ a similar political mistake to the poll tax? They both left most people unaffected while hitting other politically important groups in a really obvious way.

    Here’s the attack lines getting tested: “Labour's carless society”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12448979/Secret-plan-change-drivers-mile-Ulez-start-Labours-carless-society.html
    Worse than class ceiling.

    "Weak weak weak"
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,021
    Sandpit said:

    Is ULEZ a similar political mistake to the poll tax? They both left most people unaffected while hitting other politically important groups in a really obvious way.

    Here’s the attack lines getting tested: “Labour's carless society”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12448979/Secret-plan-change-drivers-mile-Ulez-start-Labours-carless-society.html
    "White van man ban"?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would say Sunak did not abandon the core principles of conservatism in the way that Dorries’ candidate Truss did.

    Anyway onto the by election which both Labour and the Liberal Democrats will likely target and will be a challenge for the Conservatives to hold on current polls and midterm protest vote

    Labour are 6 on BF.

    Got to be value if it is true they are going for it.
    We are. I've taken the 6 - now down to 4.6.
    That’s great value after the Opinium poll. Do we know anything about this independent?

    The problem with this poll is that it puts the Tories on just 24%, which isn't credible IMO.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    @BartholomewRoberts FPT, those fans on Amazon look okay to me. It’s difficult to actually damage a laptop with crap replacements, because the driver software works on actual temperature and shuts things down if they get too hot. Somewhere in the driver software will be a temp reading you can refer to, before and after the swap.

    Thanks for getting back to me! Got them coming tomorrow, so will attempt my first ever fan exchange on a Laptop tomorrow.

    Done it on a PC before, so not my first time using thermal paste etc, but still a bit nervous. Handling this stuff with PCs always seems easier to me than with Laptops despite them being essentially mostly the same thing.

    Good point that the Laptop will just shut down if it overheats, that's happened before when I was playing a game in bed so the exhaust ports were all blocked by the duvet so it overheated. Suppose so long as I don't f things up myself then presumably worst that can happen is I've wasted £21 and need to do this again with official parts.

    I've been monitoring the temperature since the noise became an issue, in case that was it. Its typically running at CPU 50-70C though sometimes higher and GPU seems to fairly consistently stick to reasonably close to 50C. Currently running at 60 and 50 respectively, so I have a baseline to compare before and after.

    Thanks for the advice. :)
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,301
    edited August 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Is ULEZ a similar political mistake to the poll tax? They both left most people unaffected while hitting other politically important groups in a really obvious way.

    Here’s the attack lines getting tested: “Labour's carless society”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12448979/Secret-plan-change-drivers-mile-Ulez-start-Labours-carless-society.html
    I would have no qualms at all with a per-mile road charging system, so long as all other taxes on driving were completely abolished and 100% of the proceeds of such a tax went ringfenced back into the roads and not into general taxation.

    Have a special chartered organisation (like the BBC Charter, but only charging road users not other transportation/TV users like the BBC does) set up to run the roads and responsible for handling the proceeds of such revenue, maintenance of roads and construction of new ones.

    I for one would then welcome either the vast increase in road construction that could be funded from charges equivalent to our current taxes, or the dramatic reduction in charges/taxes that would happen instead.

    But of course we know that the anti-car fanatics would just want this to be another general tax to penalise people who go about with private transportation on infrastructure funded and then some from taxes on private transportation. They would seek to raise tens of billions from road charges and spend it on public transport or the NHS instead of roads.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,217
    How can somewhere with 133 people qualify as a town? Describing it as a village is a bit of a push.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,228

    Reasons that Rishi Sunak is a bad PM.

    1: He's freezing tax thresholds at a time of high inflation, so that take home pay is down even if people get an inflation-meeting pay rise.

    2: He's encouraging below-inflation pay rises.

    3: He's opposing the construction of much needed housing.

    4: Taxes are continuously going up on those working for a living, while spending goes up on client voters who aren't.

    5: No positive vision for growing the economy.

    6: Spending is being redirected towards client voters instead of investment.

    ...

    976,456,159 An ex-MP didn't get her
    promised bauble.

    Most of those points are he’s “a PM is disagree with” as opposed to a “bad PM”.

    I disagree with a lot of Atlee and Gladstones’s policies. But it doesn’t make them bad PMs. In fact I’d even say they were rather good
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,228

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    That you dislike him so much is one of the strongest points in his favour. He must be doing something right!

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    Reasons that Rishi Sunak is a bad PM.

    1: He's freezing tax thresholds at a time of high inflation, so that take home pay is down even if people get an inflation-meeting pay rise.

    2: He's encouraging below-inflation pay rises.

    3: He's opposing the construction of much needed housing.

    4: Taxes are continuously going up on those working for a living, while spending goes up on client voters who aren't.

    5: No positive vision for growing the economy.

    6: Spending is being redirected towards client voters instead of investment.

    ...

    976,456,159 An ex-MP didn't get her
    promised bauble.

    Most of those points are he’s “a PM is disagree with” as opposed to a “bad PM”.

    I disagree with a lot of Atlee and Gladstones’s policies. But it doesn’t make them bad PMs. In fact I’d even say they were rather good
    A PM who prioritises his client votes over growing the economy and ensuring all citizens can progress through work is a bad PM in my eyes.

    A PM should govern for the whole nation, just just his or her client vote.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,988

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    That you dislike him so much is one of the strongest points in his favour. He must be doing something right!

    Sorry, what is doing right? Do tell!
    You can make a case for his keeping Jeremy Hunt in post to settle market nerves, but what the hell else has he done or is planning to do?

    It’s a zombie administration.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,228

    Cyclefree said:

    Her criticisms of Sunak might be worth taking more seriously were she not so obviously motivated by bitterness at not being given a bauble and by her support for Johnson, a man wholly unsuitable to be PM and who degraded British politics and British public life.

    Her criticisms of Sunak are old news to anyone who has been vaguely conscious for the past 2 years. If you're still at the stage of not 'taking them seriously' then you should question your own seriousness as an observer of British politics. He's a dud. Crap. The sort of person who can find the only tailor on Savile Row (it would seem) who makes trousers so bad they're meme-able. Simply the most manifestly inadequate and damaging Prime Minister we've ever had. If they'll have him in California, someone put him on a plane for heaven's sake.
    That you dislike him so much is one of the strongest points in his favour. He must be doing something right!

    Sorry, what is doing right? Do tell!
    You can make a case for his keeping Jeremy Hunt in post to settle market nerves, but what the hell else has he done or is planning to do?


    It’s a zombie administration.
    It was a snarky jab at our resident right wing nut job. That’s all
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,230
    Glad she has stepped down but I have little interest in reading her embittered letter.

    Why indulge her further?

    These politicians are not as important as they think they are. She was the future, once.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,518
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour are second and won Selby and Ainsty on a smaller swing than this requires.

    If Labour can win Selby, why should Labour not go full gas for Mid Beds?
    This is going to be fascinating.

    1. Labour victory: confirms they are on course, and can win in the semi-rural Home Counties
    2. Lib Dem victory: yet more evidence they will destroy the Tories in the blue wall
    3. Tory hold: signs of trouble ahead for the tactical voting coalition, and another Uxbridge-style straw in the wind that things might not be all that bad for them after all
    4. Tories third: lol

    Not much chance of the Tories coming third. They should get at least 35%.
    Why? A genuine question, because from any objective point of view they are in a terrible position for this by election
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,385
    edited August 2023
    Per The Telegraph:

    "Rachel Reeves has ruled out any version of a wealth tax if Labour forms the next government, declaring that additional taxation will not lead to prosperity.

    In an interview with The Telegraph, the Shadow Chancellor launches a bold bid for support from businesses and wealthier households, saying she will not introduce a levy to target wealth or expensive properties, and will not increase capital gains tax or the top rate of income tax."

    So appears as if the next GE will have no impact on the level of taxes. And indeed spending as nobody is going to risk additional borrowing.

    We've got Sunak under attack from both Left and Right. But the Left isn't going to do anything different. And when the Right (ie Truss) tried to do something different it completely blew up in their faces.

    Realistically there is no significant scope for doing anything different however much people might dislike it.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,230
    Cicero said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour campaigning hard in Mid Beds can only hand the seat to the Tories since the LDs are likely to be the main challengers.

    Labour are second and won Selby and Ainsty on a smaller swing than this requires.

    If Labour can win Selby, why should Labour not go full gas for Mid Beds?
    This is going to be fascinating.

    1. Labour victory: confirms they are on course, and can win in the semi-rural Home Counties
    2. Lib Dem victory: yet more evidence they will destroy the Tories in the blue wall
    3. Tory hold: signs of trouble ahead for the tactical voting coalition, and another Uxbridge-style straw in the wind that things might not be all that bad for them after all
    4. Tories third: lol

    Not much chance of the Tories coming third. They should get at least 35%.
    Why? A genuine question, because from any objective point of view they are in a terrible position for this by election
    Andy keeps beating the tory drum but, as you say, I'm not sure this is evidence based. The only real 'evidence' is past performance, which is not a guide for the present.

    That historic precedence shows that in 1997 they polled 30.7%, well below Andy's 'at least 35%'. For all the talk that Starmer is no Blair, 2024 is also no 1997 in terms of the background and conditions. Most commentators would argue that the situation now is far worse than in 1997, when this country was in fact in pretty good economic health.

    In 2001 the Conservatives still only polled 31.7%

    And in 2005 32.6%

    They didn't get back over the 35% mark until 2010, and even then only by just over 1%.

    Based on that, and the current polling, I see no firm basis at the present time for Andy's optimism.

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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,228
    MikeL said:

    Per The Telegraph:

    "Rachel Reeves has ruled out any version of a wealth tax if Labour forms the next government, declaring that additional taxation will not lead to prosperity.

    In an interview with The Telegraph, the Shadow Chancellor launches a bold bid for support from businesses and wealthier households, saying she will not introduce a levy to target wealth or expensive properties, and will not increase capital gains tax or the top rate of income tax."

    So appears as if the next GE will have no impact on the level of taxes. And indeed spending as nobody is going to risk additional borrowing.

    We've got Sunak under attack from both Left and Right. But the Left isn't going to do anything different. And when the Right (ie Truss) tried to do something different it completely blew up in their faces.

    Realistically there is no significant scope for doing anything different however much people might dislike it.

    Political wiggle question:

    Is the “top rate of tax” the same as the “additional rate”?
This discussion has been closed.