How much damage is Dorries doing to the Tory brand? – politicalbetting.com

System

How much damage is Dorries doing to the Tory brand? – politicalbetting.com

"Where the **** is Nadine Dorries?"The News Agents speak to LBC’s @HenryRiley1 who went on the hunt for the MP in her constituency Mid Bedfordshire, without any luck…On @GlobalPlayerhttps://t.co/SdyBDl7Yow@jonsopel | @lewis_goodall pic.twitter.com/SkiJKiC9kR

Read the full story here

SeaShantyIrish2

On Topic - Mad Nad is a fleabite on the hind end of creation.

Addendum - and doubt yours truly is first to say (or at least think) this thought.

williamglenn

Trump's interview with Tucker Carlson is online now:

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143

DecrepiterJohnL

Is Nadine Dorries doing any damage to the wider Conservative brand or is she seen as a one-off? I'd suggest the latter.

Twickbait_55

The continued squatting Mad Nads is undertaking in Mid Beds will no doubt hand her seat over to the Libs at the upcoming election (or by-election), whenever that occurs. She has, unfortunately for the Tories become a symbol in the public eye for all that is bad in the current 'tea party ' incarnation of the Tories. Uncaring, self obsessed, self serving and corrupted. This will of course be well used as a meme against them and will be damaging, especially so in the so called 'blue wall' seats that are already trending away from them. Voter's in these seats expect an MP to act democratically and at least do the job for the constituency, rather than squat and do nothing. The Tories should be actively working to get her out, rather than making blithe comment. It can only be very damaging if they do not.

DecrepiterJohnL

For the second straight year, someone in this picture ran down Jakob Ingebrigtsen to win the 1500m world title
https://twitter.com/jgault13/status/1694431523070447832

rcs1000

williamglenn said:

Trump's interview with Tucker Carlson is online now:

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143

Carlson will have more views of his Trump interview than - I think - all his other shows put together.

Fishing

Darth Putin is on a roll:

Prigozhin did a Luna-25 tribute act.

Prigozhin probably felt safe taking an aisle rather than a window seat

Day 546 of my 3 day war. Thanks to me Moscow is being regularly bombed for the first time 80 years.
I remain a master strategist.

rcs1000

Hard to disagree...

Nigelb

I imagine the Trump interview is more like a turd-dog.

I feel like entrant in Hot Dog Eating contest who has downed 58 of them but can't take any more

So signing off

The 3 who seemed to pander least are Hutchinson, Christie, Pence, sometimes Haley

Pander most: DeSantis, and Borgum some too

Ramaswamy: like facing that 400th hotdog
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694541047085322333

Nigelb

People who have come across as human beings so far:
-Hutchinson
-Christie
-Pence (yes)

Not:
-DeSantis

Ineffable category of his own:
-Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694532869400490251

Nigelb

DeSantis had a bad night.
"There is only one thing worse than being talked about..."

Pile-on in Milwaukee: Who won, who lost and who fizzled in the first Republican debate
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/24/republican-debate-who-won-takeaways-00112691
..Largely ignored for two hours by his lower-polling rivals on Wednesday, the Florida governor watched as the first debate of the GOP primary turned into a pile on Vivek Ramaswamy, the 38-year-old biotech entrepreneur rising in polls.
Mike Pence tangled with Ramaswamy. So did Nikki Haley and Chris Christie. DeSantis, still polling second to former President Donald Trump — but with his campaign floundering — was all but reduced to an afterthought, while Pence, Haley and Christie dominated the stage...

Pulpstar

Looks like Trump won judging by the hundred million impressions on the Tucker interview

IanB2

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

Sandpit

In the queue to get out of Ukraine, it’s been a rather mad couple of weeks!

TheScreamingEagles

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

TheScreamingEagles

The former SNP spin doctor who described the police investigation into party finances as a “grotesque circus” has been appointed as the party’s chief executive.

The new role for Murray Foote, the former editor of the Daily Record, has been revealed to the SNP’s ruling national executive committee after a five-month hunt to fill the vacant post.

Foote was the catalyst for Nicola Sturgeon’s husband, Peter Murrell, quitting as SNP chief executive in a row over false membership figures.

After leaving newspapers, he was appointed head of press for the SNP at Holyrood but resigned after unwittingly misleading the media.

The party provided inaccurate membership figures during its leadership election in March. Foote, a respected figure within the media, who masterminded “The Vow” front page on which unionist leaders promised more powers for Holyrood in the run-up to the 2014 independence referendum, said he had robustly defended the inaccurate numbers in “good faith”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/daily-record-editor-to-take-over-from-murrell-as-snp-chief-executive-jvp60059g

Sandpit

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

Makes a change from falling out of random windows.

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

The former SNP spin doctor who described the police investigation into party finances as a “grotesque circus” has been appointed as the party’s chief executive.

The new role for Murray Foote, the former editor of the Daily Record, has been revealed to the SNP’s ruling national executive committee after a five-month hunt to fill the vacant post.

Foote was the catalyst for Nicola Sturgeon’s husband, Peter Murrell, quitting as SNP chief executive in a row over false membership figures.

After leaving newspapers, he was appointed head of press for the SNP at Holyrood but resigned after unwittingly misleading the media.

The party provided inaccurate membership figures during its leadership election in March. Foote, a respected figure within the media, who masterminded “The Vow” front page on which unionist leaders promised more powers for Holyrood in the run-up to the 2014 independence referendum, said he had robustly defended the inaccurate numbers in “good faith”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/daily-record-editor-to-take-over-from-murrell-as-snp-chief-executive-jvp60059g

Interesting only to the extent that it suggests that Yousless is no longer determining questions by asking himself “what would Nicola do?”

OnlyLivingBoy

rcs1000 said:

Hard to disagree...

McConnell looks to be the one getting no satisfaction.

OnlyLivingBoy

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

You come for the king, you better not miss.

NickPalmer

I didn't see the debate but it sounds like a win for Ramaswamy, who was edging ahead anyway in a poll assuming Trump was not available:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/national/

"As crazy as Trump but not in prison and not elderly" seems to be a possible winning card.

ydoethur

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

You come for the king, you better not miss.

I make that five times somebody has said that on here since Prigozhin bought it.

Selebian

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

If the latter (and it may be, as most people have had it now) then they still pushed many infections past the availability of effective vaccines. That and protecting hospitals.from being overrun will have significantly reduced deaths.

As they correctly state, the interventions do need to be considered along with their costs, too.

OnlyLivingBoy

ydoethur said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

You come for the king, you better not miss.

I make that five times somebody has said that on here since Prigozhin bought it.

Great minds...

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

You come for the king, you better not miss.

I make that five times somebody has said that on here since Prigozhin bought it.

And nobody has got it right, since it is Putin, surely the correct phrase should be

'You come for the queen, you better not miss.'

TheScreamingEagles

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

One the arguments I've seen that the lockdowns, particularly the last two, saved lots of lives due to buying time for the vaccine rollout.

Chris

Selebian said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

If the latter (and it may be, as most people have had it now) then they still pushed many infections past the availability of effective vaccines. That and protecting hospitals.from being overrun will have significantly reduced deaths.

If anyone doubts that, they have only to reflect on how many people they know who had COVID-19 pre-vaccination, and how many post-vaccination.

Of course the data are there in the infection surveys if anyone really needs to see them.

ydoethur

On topic - I don't remember Jared O'Mara, who was a hundred times worse,* doing damage to Labour.

Sure, we all laughed in a mixture of amusement, pity and disgust at how Corbyn's processes ever let a twat like that near power. But it didn't even cost Labour Sheffield Hallam at the 2019 election.

She does rather sum up all that's wrong with the Greasy Johnsonites but I can't see it making much impact at an election.

*Dorries is an arse, but has not to my knowledge been accused of assault, sexual assault, false accounting or embezzlement.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

So the Wagner leader has apparently been killed in a random plane crash….

You come for the king, you better not miss.

I make that five times somebody has said that on here since Prigozhin bought it.

And nobody has got it right, since it is Putin, surely the correct phrase should be

'You come for the queen, you better not miss.'

Oh, bee have.

darkage

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/leaked-figures-show-uk-has-granted-asylum-to-dozens-of-rwandans-355165/

"The plan has also had cold water poured over it after it was revealed 29 decisions have been made on Rwandan claimants since the start of 2020.

Of these 14 people were granted protection, while 10 were refused. A further five applications were withdrawn.

Thom Brooks, of the University of Durham, told The Mirror: “While we are told Rwanda is safe for all, the Home Office recognises that it is not safe for all Rwandans. It is unclear how Rwanda can be safe for all from any country if not safe for every Rwandan.”

ydoethur

Selebian said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

If the latter (and it may be, as most people have had it now) then they still pushed many infections past the availability of effective vaccines. That and protecting hospitals.from being overrun will have significantly reduced deaths.

As they correctly state, the interventions do need to be considered along with their costs, too.

Can I say for the fourth time the problem with lockdown as a policy was that if it worked people would say it wasn't necessary?

IanB2

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

ydoethur

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Disappointing lack of imagination. He should have blamed Prigozhin.

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Disappointing lack of imagination. He should have blamed Prigozhin.

Or MI5.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Disappointing lack of imagination. He should have blamed Prigozhin.

Or MI5.

I don't think anybody would have believed that.

Sandpit

ydoethur said:

Selebian said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

If the latter (and it may be, as most people have had it now) then they still pushed many infections past the availability of effective vaccines. That and protecting hospitals.from being overrun will have significantly reduced deaths.

As they correctly state, the interventions do need to be considered along with their costs, too.

Can I say for the fourth time the problem with lockdown as a policy was that if it worked people would say it wasn't necessary?

It’s hardly news that stay at home orders reduce the spread of an infectious disease. The more meaningful questions are around the costs of such measures, and the benefits in reduced deaths and health service constraints.

Malmesbury

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Disappointing lack of imagination. He should have blamed Prigozhin.

Or MI5.

Trans Woke NATO Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

One the arguments I've seen that the lockdowns, particularly the last two, saved lots of lives due to buying time for the vaccine rollout.

That would make sense. If you have a game changer like the vaccines it makes sense to buy time. But by the last lockdown we were all on our second or third dose. It was way past time to stop as Boris correctly concluded.

ydoethur

One for @Eabhal

Drivers face tougher sentences for killing pedestrians
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66593086

Although this seems to fly in the face of the idea in Scotland that younger people are less responsible for their actions?

DavidL

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

boulay

NickPalmer said:

I didn't see the debate but it sounds like a win for Ramaswamy, who was edging ahead anyway in a poll assuming Trump was not available:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/national/

"As crazy as Trump but not in prison and not elderly" seems to be a possible winning card.

I only heard selective highlights (well, lowlights really apart from Christie damning Trump when asked if he would support him) and Ramaswamy actually managed to sound more deranged, and a worse option, than Trump.

RochdalePioneers

Twickbait_55 said:

The continued squatting Mad Nads is undertaking in Mid Beds will no doubt hand her seat over to the Libs at the upcoming election (or by-election), whenever that occurs. She has, unfortunately for the Tories become a symbol in the public eye for all that is bad in the current 'tea party ' incarnation of the Tories. Uncaring, self obsessed, self serving and corrupted. This will of course be well used as a meme against them and will be damaging, especially so in the so called 'blue wall' seats that are already trending away from them. Voter's in these seats expect an MP to act democratically and at least do the job for the constituency, rather than squat and do nothing. The Tories should be actively working to get her out, rather than making blithe comment. It can only be very damaging if they do not.

I can almost understand Dorries throwing a mega strop that lover boy failed to give her Ermine. But why is she still a Tory MP? Does the party literally have no standards about what it expects from its MPs?

rcs1000

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

One the arguments I've seen that the lockdowns, particularly the last two, saved lots of lives due to buying time for the vaccine rollout.

That would make sense. If you have a game changer like the vaccines it makes sense to buy time. But by the last lockdown we were all on our second or third dose. It was way past time to stop as Boris correctly concluded.

The later lockdowns had far less justification than the first one.

ydoethur

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

Wagner's eclipse marks The Twilight of the Gods?

Malmesbury

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

One of the things about dictatorial regiemes is that

1) They claim to be all powerful
2) They claim their enemies are so powerful that Dark Forces are under your bed all the time. Even in your bed.

RochdalePioneers

ydoethur said:

On topic - I don't remember Jared O'Mara, who was a hundred times worse,* doing damage to Labour.

Sure, we all laughed in a mixture of amusement, pity and disgust at how Corbyn's processes ever let a twat like that near power. But it didn't even cost Labour Sheffield Hallam at the 2019 election.

She does rather sum up all that's wrong with the Greasy Johnsonites but I can't see it making much impact at an election.

*Dorries is an arse, but has not to my knowledge been accused of assault, sexual assault, false accounting or embezzlement.

O'Mara was not a Labour MP though. They suspended the whip pretty quickly. Dorries remains a Tory MP. Apparently sulking and shirking and not being there are perfectly acceptable behaviours for a Tory MP.

Sandpit

Oh crap, just been told that the wait for the Polish border is around seven hours! Bloody EU.

Malmesbury

ydoethur said:

One for @Eabhal

Drivers face tougher sentences for killing pedestrians
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66593086

Although this seems to fly in the face of the idea in Scotland that younger people are less responsible for their actions?

Well, they take away the sentence reduction for being an inexperienced young driver, add an aggravating factor of killing a vulnerable road user. Then add a sentence reduction for being a twenty something and not fully competent.

Bet that ends up with the same sentence as before.

Yes Minister lives!

ydoethur

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

On topic - I don't remember Jared O'Mara, who was a hundred times worse,* doing damage to Labour.

Sure, we all laughed in a mixture of amusement, pity and disgust at how Corbyn's processes ever let a twat like that near power. But it didn't even cost Labour Sheffield Hallam at the 2019 election.

She does rather sum up all that's wrong with the Greasy Johnsonites but I can't see it making much impact at an election.

*Dorries is an arse, but has not to my knowledge been accused of assault, sexual assault, false accounting or embezzlement.

O'Mara was not a Labour MP though. They suspended the whip pretty quickly. Dorries remains a Tory MP. Apparently sulking and shirking and not being there are perfectly acceptable behaviours for a Tory MP.

I think it unlikely that the average voter in either Sheffield or Mid Beds is avidly following whether or not their MP keeps the whip. Who they were elected for is more important.

Not forgetting Dorries has lost the whip before and it seemed to make little difference to her.

ydoethur

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

One for @Eabhal

Drivers face tougher sentences for killing pedestrians
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66593086

Although this seems to fly in the face of the idea in Scotland that younger people are less responsible for their actions?

Well, they take away the sentence reduction for being an inexperienced young driver, add an aggravating factor of killing a vulnerable road user. Then add a sentence reduction for being a twenty something and not fully competent.

Bet that ends up with the same sentence as before.

Yes Minister lives!

That applies with greater force to computer crimes.

They would know how to handle a Hacker.

Malmesbury

ydoethur said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

One for @Eabhal

Drivers face tougher sentences for killing pedestrians
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66593086

Although this seems to fly in the face of the idea in Scotland that younger people are less responsible for their actions?

Well, they take away the sentence reduction for being an inexperienced young driver, add an aggravating factor of killing a vulnerable road user. Then add a sentence reduction for being a twenty something and not fully competent.

Bet that ends up with the same sentence as before.

Yes Minister lives!

That applies with greater force to computer crimes.

They would know how to handle a Hacker.

The Post Office management say Hi!

sbjme19

On topic, presumably the reason the Tories don't do anything is because they don't want a by-election to lose. A No.10 spokesman said "It is rather unusual for an MP to stay..." Rishi: "the constituents are not being represented". Wow I'd be scared if I were Nad. Like being challenged by a wet lettuce.

TimS

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

One of the things about dictatorial regiemes is that

1) They claim to be all powerful
2) They claim their enemies are so powerful that Dark Forces are under your bed all the time. Even in your bed.

It seems British intelligence now has a worthy competitor in the living rent free in Russian heads championship.

ydoethur

sbjme19 said:

On topic, presumably the reason the Tories don't do anything is because they don't want a by-election to lose. A No.10 spokesman said "It is rather unusual for an MP to stay..." Rishi: "the constituents are not being represented". Wow I'd be scared if I were Nad. Like being challenged by a wet lettuce.

That was Truss.

And she lost.

Nigelb

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

One of the things about dictatorial regiemes is that

1) They claim to be all powerful
2) They claim their enemies are so powerful that Dark Forces are under your bed all the time. Even in your bed.

A similar mindset to the Trump GOP.

Nigelb

boulay said:

NickPalmer said:

I didn't see the debate but it sounds like a win for Ramaswamy, who was edging ahead anyway in a poll assuming Trump was not available:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/national/

"As crazy as Trump but not in prison and not elderly" seems to be a possible winning card.

I only heard selective highlights (well, lowlights really apart from Christie damning Trump when asked if he would support him) and Ramaswamy actually managed to sound more deranged, and a worse option, than Trump.

He needs to cut back on the caffeine - or the coke.

OnlyLivingBoy

sbjme19 said:

On topic, presumably the reason the Tories don't do anything is because they don't want a by-election to lose. A No.10 spokesman said "It is rather unusual for an MP to stay..." Rishi: "the constituents are not being represented". Wow I'd be scared if I were Nad. Like being challenged by a wet lettuce.

A wet lettuce might provide more of a challenge. Bear in mind that a lettuce outlived the last Tory PM.

ydoethur

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

Monksfield

Twickbait_55 said:

The continued squatting Mad Nads is undertaking in Mid Beds will no doubt hand her seat over to the Libs at the upcoming election (or by-election), whenever that occurs. She has, unfortunately for the Tories become a symbol in the public eye for all that is bad in the current 'tea party ' incarnation of the Tories. Uncaring, self obsessed, self serving and corrupted. This will of course be well used as a meme against them and will be damaging, especially so in the so called 'blue wall' seats that are already trending away from them. Voter's in these seats expect an MP to act democratically and at least do the job for the constituency, rather than squat and do nothing. The Tories should be actively working to get her out, rather than making blithe comment. It can only be very damaging if they do not.

Agree, these ‘blue wall’ seats are the analogues of the suburban and exurban seats that have trended away from the Republicans in recent elections. Educated, value good governance, fiscal conservatives but socially liberal, repelled by excessive dogma. The Tories have attempted for 13 years to be all things to all people. You can’t.

Malmesbury

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

One of the things about dictatorial regiemes is that

1) They claim to be all powerful
2) They claim their enemies are so powerful that Dark Forces are under your bed all the time. Even in your bed.

A similar mindset to the Trump GOP.

Yes, exactly. As I understand it, the paranoia about Dark Forces is a vital component of the spiral of ever more extreme violence and illegality that is required to create a dictatorial system.

OnlyLivingBoy

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

The quantity of magpies at least is a good sign.

Malmesbury

OnlyLivingBoy said:

sbjme19 said:

On topic, presumably the reason the Tories don't do anything is because they don't want a by-election to lose. A No.10 spokesman said "It is rather unusual for an MP to stay..." Rishi: "the constituents are not being represented". Wow I'd be scared if I were Nad. Like being challenged by a wet lettuce.

A wet lettuce might provide more of a challenge. Bear in mind that a lettuce outlived the last Tory PM.

TimS said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

IanB2 said:

The Russian Ambassador on R4 now, blaming Ukraine for the plane crash killing

Wow. So Ukraine has anti aircraft batteries on the outskirts of Moscow? Is it getting close to the time for surrender?

One of the things about dictatorial regiemes is that

1) They claim to be all powerful
2) They claim their enemies are so powerful that Dark Forces are under your bed all the time. Even in your bed.

It seems British intelligence now has a worthy competitor in the living rent free in Russian heads championship.

There is a housing crisis - perhaps British Intelligence can roomshare with Ukraine in Russian heads.

Malmesbury

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

What kind of pie crust are you thinking of?

Carnyx

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

Re the mood in Edinburgh, where depopulation for the sake of airbnbs is an issue:

Irsvine Welsh a year or so back:

‘In places like our capital – a global tourist attraction – the people living there are increasingly irrelevant in a city being increasingly redesigned to attract tourists, wealthy students, businesses and housing developers. The people who bring income are paramount, and our modern culture of cheap Airbnb accommodation, landlordism and commercial development constantly feeds the dominant narrative telling us that so-called “legacy citizens” are unnecessary, even a hindrance, to the city’s progress.'

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/irvine-welsh-ian-rankin-and-alexander-mccall-smith-join-forces-3521951

Complaints about "housing developers" tell you what these people are aiming for. A sort of state-controlled housing sector where workers get taxed to house non-workers like arts students.

FPT: not so. The students *are* part of the problem, as I remarked earlier - the general expansion, and the building of commercial student barracks, sorry condominiums, aimed at rich foreign students or students with rich parents.

Edit: I suspect some of the latter at least are designed for quyick conversion to residential flats, as Malmesbury has remarked before. But if one has sold off some at least of the flats? Maybe it's the ones that are rented out rather than sold out that fall into that area.

Benpointer

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

The resurgence of corvid?

Taz

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

What kind of pie crust are you thinking of?

Stargazy.

dixiedean

Have more words ever been written on a by-election which hasn't been called?

Malmesbury

Carnyx said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

Re the mood in Edinburgh, where depopulation for the sake of airbnbs is an issue:

Irsvine Welsh a year or so back:

‘In places like our capital – a global tourist attraction – the people living there are increasingly irrelevant in a city being increasingly redesigned to attract tourists, wealthy students, businesses and housing developers. The people who bring income are paramount, and our modern culture of cheap Airbnb accommodation, landlordism and commercial development constantly feeds the dominant narrative telling us that so-called “legacy citizens” are unnecessary, even a hindrance, to the city’s progress.'

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/irvine-welsh-ian-rankin-and-alexander-mccall-smith-join-forces-3521951

Complaints about "housing developers" tell you what these people are aiming for. A sort of state-controlled housing sector where workers get taxed to house non-workers like arts students.

FPT: not so. The students *are* part of the problem, as I remarked earlier - the general expansion, and the building of commercial student barracks, sorry condominiums, aimed at rich foreign students or students with rich parents.

Student accommodation can also be rented out, out of term time. And generally is. So the students pay. Then the AirBnB’rs pay again…

When the debt incurred in building the student accommodation is paid down (and the area has gentrified a bit), kick the students out, kick some internal walls down and sell them as flats.

While you build more student accommodation on the edge of the next unfashionable area.

TheScreamingEagles

dixiedean said:

Have more words ever been written on a by-election which hasn't been called?

Yes.

Eastleigh between the summer of 2010 and February 2013 when it was formally triggered.

FF43

Nigelb said:

People who have come across as human beings so far:
-Hutchinson
-Christie
-Pence (yes)

Not:
-DeSantis

Ineffable category of his own:
-Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694532869400490251

Vivek Ramaswamy is Liz Truss super concentrated, on steroids.

dixiedean

Carnyx said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

Re the mood in Edinburgh, where depopulation for the sake of airbnbs is an issue:

Irsvine Welsh a year or so back:

‘In places like our capital – a global tourist attraction – the people living there are increasingly irrelevant in a city being increasingly redesigned to attract tourists, wealthy students, businesses and housing developers. The people who bring income are paramount, and our modern culture of cheap Airbnb accommodation, landlordism and commercial development constantly feeds the dominant narrative telling us that so-called “legacy citizens” are unnecessary, even a hindrance, to the city’s progress.'

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/irvine-welsh-ian-rankin-and-alexander-mccall-smith-join-forces-3521951

Complaints about "housing developers" tell you what these people are aiming for. A sort of state-controlled housing sector where workers get taxed to house non-workers like arts students.

FPT: not so. The students *are* part of the problem, as I remarked earlier - the general expansion, and the building of commercial student barracks, sorry condominiums, aimed at rich foreign students or students with rich parents.

Edit: I suspect some of the latter at least are designed for quyick conversion to residential flats, as Malmesbury has remarked before. But if one has sold off some at least of the flats? Maybe it's the ones that are rented out rather than sold out that fall into that area.

Often in marginal parts of town.
10 years to gentrify the district then sell off the lot at a huge profit.

Nigelb

OnlyLivingBoy said:

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

The quantity of magpies at least is a good sign.

The ravens were just Wotan around.

Luckyguy1983

Does Nadine get more money for losing the seat at the next GE? It is bad. It doesn't affect the Tories in the wider sense, more than say, being a shit Government does.

Carnyx

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

Not quite right, surely? Death rate would depend on whether hospitals were saturated - remember Italy in early 2020. And the UK hospitals and their staff did have a grim time of it, even so.

Also:with infectious diseases and exponential increases, it's simply not possible to fine tune to the degree retrospective critics would like. You're talking about margins in absolute ratios of ordinary numbers, effectively, when the true metric/function is a logarithmic conversion of that ratio.

DecrepiterJohnL

More than 100 MPs received freebies worth £180,000 this summer
Exclusive: Oliver Dowden and Keir Starmer among those who enjoyed free tickets to events including the Chelsea flower show and the Derby
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/23/more-than-100-mps-received-freebies-worth-180000-this-summer

On one level, trivial, but on another, more likely to damage MPs' brand than Nadine's no-show.

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Mr. B, sounds like a conspiracy to me.

Benpointer

Nigelb said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

The quantity of magpies at least is a good sign.

The ravens were just Wotan around.

Could you be any Freyja with your puns?

Carnyx

Luckyguy1983 said:

Does Nadine get more money for losing the seat at the next GE? It is bad. It doesn't affect the Tories in the wider sense, more than say, being a shit Government does.

She gets redundo (double the statutory) if she sticks around till the dissolution of Pmt and doesn't stand again. If not, not. What I'm not clear about is whether the period assumed is for the current Parliament, or goes back to her previous first election.

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/freedom-of-information/2017-18/cas-80614

Fishing

So farewell then,
Yevgeny Prigozhin,
Murderous psychopath yet bane of Putin.
Life and people can be complicated,
I suppose.

Carnyx

Benpointer said:

Nigelb said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

The quantity of magpies at least is a good sign.

The ravens were just Wotan around.

Could you be any Freyja with your puns?

Our colleagues aren't ones you fing Hugin the remotest possible pun to themselves.

Benpointer

FF43 said:

Nigelb said:

People who have come across as human beings so far:
-Hutchinson
-Christie
-Pence (yes)

Not:
-DeSantis

Ineffable category of his own:
-Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694532869400490251

Vivek Ramaswamy is Liz Truss super concentrated, on steroids.

I shudder to ask this question but I am going to anyway: are the GOP base going to cope with a candidate who is not white?

Malmesbury

dixiedean said:

Carnyx said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

Re the mood in Edinburgh, where depopulation for the sake of airbnbs is an issue:

Irsvine Welsh a year or so back:

‘In places like our capital – a global tourist attraction – the people living there are increasingly irrelevant in a city being increasingly redesigned to attract tourists, wealthy students, businesses and housing developers. The people who bring income are paramount, and our modern culture of cheap Airbnb accommodation, landlordism and commercial development constantly feeds the dominant narrative telling us that so-called “legacy citizens” are unnecessary, even a hindrance, to the city’s progress.'

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/irvine-welsh-ian-rankin-and-alexander-mccall-smith-join-forces-3521951

Complaints about "housing developers" tell you what these people are aiming for. A sort of state-controlled housing sector where workers get taxed to house non-workers like arts students.

FPT: not so. The students *are* part of the problem, as I remarked earlier - the general expansion, and the building of commercial student barracks, sorry condominiums, aimed at rich foreign students or students with rich parents.

Edit: I suspect some of the latter at least are designed for quyick conversion to residential flats, as Malmesbury has remarked before. But if one has sold off some at least of the flats? Maybe it's the ones that are rented out rather than sold out that fall into that area.

Often in marginal parts of town.
10 years to gentrify the district then sell off the lot at a huge profit.

It’s the self justifying bureaucrats again.

The local people are an annoying obstacle to their plans for a bigger and better Edinburgh. It is Better For All Concerned* if they are pushed out to dormitory towns outside Edinburgh.

*Not for the locals

SirNorfolkPassmore

DecrepiterJohnL said:

More than 100 MPs received freebies worth £180,000 this summer
Exclusive: Oliver Dowden and Keir Starmer among those who enjoyed free tickets to events including the Chelsea flower show and the Derby
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/23/more-than-100-mps-received-freebies-worth-180000-this-summer

On one level, trivial, but on another, more likely to damage MPs' brand than Nadine's no-show.

I don't think most voters care if their MP got a free ticket to the Chelsea Flower Show. Your first instinct, that it's trivial, was correct and you should've stuck with it.

Foxy

ydoethur said:

I've got three ravens and two magpies having a fight outside my conservatory.

Is that a portent of some kind?

It's nothing to crow about.

Scott_xP

Presumably if Nads wants to stand at the next election, it will not be as the Tory candidate

Pulpstar

DecrepiterJohnL said:

More than 100 MPs received freebies worth £180,000 this summer
Exclusive: Oliver Dowden and Keir Starmer among those who enjoyed free tickets to events including the Chelsea flower show and the Derby
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/23/more-than-100-mps-received-freebies-worth-180000-this-summer

On one level, trivial, but on another, more likely to damage MPs' brand than Nadine's no-show.

Why on earth are MPs accepting these gifts ?

boulay

Lest we forget, overshadowed by Prigozhin’s death, I hope that PB can come together and mourn our favourite comedy Nazi, Utkin, who also was killed by MI6, the Ukrainians but not Putin.




May he rest in pieces.

Carnyx

dixiedean said:

Carnyx said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

Re the mood in Edinburgh, where depopulation for the sake of airbnbs is an issue:

Irsvine Welsh a year or so back:

‘In places like our capital – a global tourist attraction – the people living there are increasingly irrelevant in a city being increasingly redesigned to attract tourists, wealthy students, businesses and housing developers. The people who bring income are paramount, and our modern culture of cheap Airbnb accommodation, landlordism and commercial development constantly feeds the dominant narrative telling us that so-called “legacy citizens” are unnecessary, even a hindrance, to the city’s progress.'

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/irvine-welsh-ian-rankin-and-alexander-mccall-smith-join-forces-3521951

Complaints about "housing developers" tell you what these people are aiming for. A sort of state-controlled housing sector where workers get taxed to house non-workers like arts students.

FPT: not so. The students *are* part of the problem, as I remarked earlier - the general expansion, and the building of commercial student barracks, sorry condominiums, aimed at rich foreign students or students with rich parents.

Edit: I suspect some of the latter at least are designed for quyick conversion to residential flats, as Malmesbury has remarked before. But if one has sold off some at least of the flats? Maybe it's the ones that are rented out rather than sold out that fall into that area.

Often in marginal parts of town.
10 years to gentrify the district then sell off the lot at a huge profit.

In Edinburgh, I wouldn't call the West Port-Fountainbridge-canal basin particularly marginal, for all that it's a littel seedy around the Pubic Triangle - it's already poshed up a bit in recent decades with business hotels such as the Co-op former dept store. The adjacency of the business zone has had that effect. But I'm sure it adds to the overall effect, with at least some profit in prospect.

Dura_Ace

Chris said:

I was going to suggest Prigozhin might have fallen out of a window shortly before the crash. But I see about 20 people got there first.

If you don't have a high capacity for one dimensional, 100% predictable humour you are in the wrong place.

The Prigozhin snuff is proper 'Гыыы' as the Russians say. Or LMAO to the power of kek as we say.

I will miss his pithy output on Telegram but his fatalistic and nihilistic posts have indicated that he's known for about a year that he's a dead man. Лучшее в аду, indeed.

Dunno what this means for the glory that is the SMO. Probably not much. The Wagners will be absorbed into the RF forces or other PMCs like Convoy and Gazprom. The Shoigu/Krivoruchka axis is definitely in ascendancy over the Surovikin/Teplinsky faction.

ydoethur

Benpointer said:

FF43 said:

Nigelb said:

People who have come across as human beings so far:
-Hutchinson
-Christie
-Pence (yes)

Not:
-DeSantis

Ineffable category of his own:
-Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694532869400490251

Vivek Ramaswamy is Liz Truss super concentrated, on steroids.

I shudder to ask this question but I am going to anyway: are the GOP base going to cope with a candidate who is not white?

They did OK with Trump who's a sort of orangey red.

Malmesbury

boulay said:

Lest we forget, overshadowed by Prigozhin’s death, I hope that PB can come together and mourn our favourite comedy Nazi, Utkin, who also was killed by MI6, the Ukrainians but not Putin.




May he rest in pieces.

It’s says something about me, that when I first saw that picture, my thought was -

Reinhard Heydrich would have said he was a bit OTT on the whole SS enthusiasm thing.

Benpointer

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Mr. B, sounds like a conspiracy to me.

That would be an unkindness; enough of your mischief!

Carnyx

Pulpstar said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

More than 100 MPs received freebies worth £180,000 this summer
Exclusive: Oliver Dowden and Keir Starmer among those who enjoyed free tickets to events including the Chelsea flower show and the Derby
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/23/more-than-100-mps-received-freebies-worth-180000-this-summer

On one level, trivial, but on another, more likely to damage MPs' brand than Nadine's no-show.

Why on earth are MPs accepting these gifts ?

In a few cases, I suppose they may be legitimately connected with the MP's interests - e.g. in gambling or hortoculture on a Committee. Yet they have expenses to claim for that sort of thing. And remember what Which do - they never accept freebies whether washing machines or holidays when they are testing. Independence is all.

SirNorfolkPassmore

Scott_xP said:

Presumably if Nads wants to stand at the next election, it will not be as the Tory candidate

Whilst you cannot trust much that Dorries says, she announced she'd not be standing at the next election several months before she claimed she was triggering a by-election. She almost certainly doesn't want to stand at the next election - at most, she's eking out another year or so of salary for zero actual work.

BartholomewRoberts

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

Things to file under: No shit, Sherlock.

It was also the wrong thing to do, illiberal, bad for children, bad for education and bad for the economy and the future of the NHS which now operates with a backlog and constrained taxes from a country that is broke.

bondegezou

Benpointer said:

FF43 said:

Nigelb said:

People who have come across as human beings so far:
-Hutchinson
-Christie
-Pence (yes)

Not:
-DeSantis

Ineffable category of his own:
-Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1694532869400490251

Vivek Ramaswamy is Liz Truss super concentrated, on steroids.

I shudder to ask this question but I am going to anyway: are the GOP base going to cope with a candidate who is not white?

And not Christian. Some evangelicals have already been critical.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/august/ramaswamy-hindu-modi-republican-judeo-christian.html

Foxy

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

I don’t find that remotely surprising but did they reduce the number of infections overall or simply flatten the curve to protect hospitals etc? I suspect the latter and if that is right they won’t have reduced the death rate overall. And this is the key question when considering the economic and social impacts.

Clearly governments need to act if health services are endangered. But we never got very close to that point. That might be good management, it might be an excess of caution.

One the arguments I've seen that the lockdowns, particularly the last two, saved lots of lives due to buying time for the vaccine rollout.

That would make sense. If you have a game changer like the vaccines it makes sense to buy time. But by the last lockdown we were all on our second or third dose. It was way past time to stop as Boris correctly concluded.

I appreciate things were a bit different in Scotland, but I am not sure what you mean by the last lockdown.

The first was in the first wave, in spring 2020.

The second was autumn of 2020 when schools and universities went back.

The third was in Dec 2020, coinciding with the roll out of the first vaccines, and carried on with reducing measures into spring 2021.

It was Jan/Feb 2021 when NHS services came closest to collapse, during rollout of the vaccine.

Scott_xP

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

She almost certainly doesn't want to stand at the next election - at most, she's eking out another year or so of salary for zero actual work.

But that's the point. If she is defeated at the election she gets another chunk of free cash for zero work

Foxy

BartholomewRoberts said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Lockdowns and other non-pharmaceutical interventions were “unequivocally” effective in cutting the transmission of Covid-19 globally, according to a review by the Royal Society.

However, the authors of the report, which considered hundreds of studies into the use of masks, stay at home orders, test and trace, and border controls, said that future work should also quantify the social and economic costs of such measures.

The report involving more than 50 scientists from around the world, found that the strongest impact on coronavirus infections came from a full lockdown. Of 151 studies they considered that estimated an effect of stay at home orders, 119 found a substantial benefit, corresponding to a reduction in the “r number” — the rate of spread of the virus — by about 50 per cent.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pandemic-lockdown-masks-protect-virus-transmission-royal-society-report-2023-3vlhztc88

Things to file under: No shit, Sherlock.

It was also the wrong thing to do, illiberal, bad for children, bad for education and bad for the economy and the future of the NHS which now operates with a backlog and constrained taxes from a country that is broke.

Yes it would have been so much easier and convenient if there hadn't been a pandemic.

Does it actually occur to you that some of the effects were due to the virus rather than control methods.

Sure we could learn a lot from South Korea, Japan, Taiwan etc in terms of control. One lesson being that early control measures prevent a total shutdown.