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A LAB overall majority moves to new betting high – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,441

    Nigelb said:

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    A premature report, I think.

    Nothing official yet.

    Tweet reporting it deleted.
    Reported by Sky

    https://news.sky.com/story/trump-charged-with-conspiracy-to-commit-forgery-by-georgia-state-prosecutors-12940075
    No:
    … are set to bring charges including conspiracy to commit forgery against Donald Trump, Reuters reports.

    The charges appeared on a document posted to the Fulton County court website on Monday, but it was later taken down...


    As I said, premature.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,688

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    This would be a bad thing for the country, but I’d guess you could be right.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    New but long-expected.

    I think the case here might well be more difficult for Trump than the Federal cases, and, if he gets re-elected and ends up being convicted, I don't think he would have the power to pardon himself, as it's a prosecution under state law. What a constitutional mess that would be, though.
    Georgia is also unusual in the Governor not being able to grant pardons either - it's delegated to a Paroles Board.

    Some amusing tidbits from Georgia parole rules:

    "Good conduct, achievement of a fifth-grade level or higher on standardized reading tests, and efficient performance of duties by an inmate shall be considered by the board in his favor and shall merit consideration of an application for pardon or parole." So Trump better brush up on his reading skills.

    "Furthermore, no person shall be released on pardon or placed on parole unless and until the board is satisfied that he will be suitably employed in self-sustaining employment or that he will not become a public charge." Not sure if the Presidency is a plus or minus in this respect.

    "However, the board may, in its discretion, grant pardon or parole to any aged or disabled persons." Maybe Donald should consider replicating Biden's well-publicised stumbles.

    It's hard to come to terms with the realistic possibility that the US may be heading for a situation where the president is banged up in a Georgian prison cell. How on earth could that be conceivable? But it is.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,192
    edited August 2023
    A higher result for the Tories in the Redfield and Wilton poll . Upto 28% , Reform down 2%.

    Labours lead upto 20 points as Reform voters head back to their natural party the Tories .

    Whatever the Tories polling it’s clear that they can add most of the Reform who decide to vote at the next GE.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    If anyone is looking for a series to get into then I can, so far, recommend “Painkiller” on Netflix re The Sacklers/Purdue/Oxy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,952

    It is easy to see how things could have panned out differently.


    How to make me feel old.

    That was taken after Osborne's omnishambles budget.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,441

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    New but long-expected.

    I think the case here might well be more difficult for Trump than the Federal cases, and, if he gets re-elected and ends up being convicted, I don't think he would have the power to pardon himself, as it's a prosecution under state law. What a constitutional mess that would be, though.
    Georgia is also unusual in the Governor not being able to grant pardons either - it's delegated to a Paroles Board.

    Some amusing tidbits from Georgia parole rules:

    "Good conduct, achievement of a fifth-grade level or higher on standardized reading tests, and efficient performance of duties by an inmate shall be considered by the board in his favor and shall merit consideration of an application for pardon or parole." So Trump better brush up on his reading skills.

    "Furthermore, no person shall be released on pardon or placed on parole unless and until the board is satisfied that he will be suitably employed in self-sustaining employment or that he will not become a public charge." Not sure if the Presidency is a plus or minus in this respect.

    "However, the board may, in its discretion, grant pardon or parole to any aged or disabled persons." Maybe Donald should consider replicating Biden's well-publicised stumbles.

    It's hard to come to terms with the realistic possibility that the US may be heading for a situation where the president is banged up in a Georgian prison cell. How on earth could that be conceivable? But it is.
    Georgia will be … interesting.

    https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4149648-how-a-georgia-trump-indictment-would-differ-from-the-federal-jan-6-case/
    … The unique rules that run Georgia’s courts could also set it apart from Trump’s other criminal cases.
    “Historically in Georgia, there has been a value on transparency,” said Anthony Michael Kreis, a law professor at Georgia State University. “That’s not that’s not the case in other jurisdictions.”
    Federal courts by and large prohibit the photographing and broadcasting of judicial proceedings from courtrooms, while state courts have grown more lenient over time.
    The court in Fulton County, however, is “comfortable with televising proceedings,” Kreis said. In fact, Judge Robert C.I. McBurney of the Fulton County Superior Court — who has overseen matters tied to Georgia’s Trump investigation so far — has a YouTube channel where he televises his court’s proceedings..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,952
    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,636
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    And now we pass out of Plymouth, between the sumptuous green slopes of south Devon, and the purpled tors of Dartmoor, and the endless rains of July have made everything throng: quite jubilant with life

    We moan an awful lot. But, you know, sometimes, perhaps we moan too much

    You might have changed your mind by the time you reach Slough.
    Tiverton Parkway by itself can knock the stuffing out of anyone poetically inclined

    In all seriousness I’ve never seen Devon and Cornwall looking so rhapsodically green and lush. It must be all the summer rain? A silver lining…
    Been to TP. Could be anywhere, if it weren't for the Culm Valley scenery. No typical local goods shed with the huge doorway left over from broad gauge, or anything like that. Admittedly it is completely new (IIRC it's not on the site of the old station or if it is the old station couldn't be reused).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,636

    Leon said:

    And now we pass out of Plymouth, between the sumptuous green slopes of south Devon, and the purpled tors of Dartmoor, and the endless rains of July have made everything throng: quite jubilant with life

    We moan an awful lot. But, you know, sometimes, perhaps we moan too much

    You might have changed your mind by the time you reach Slough.
    But (presumably) nice trundle along the Kennet and Avon canal, past the remains of the Ironside Line and the Crofton pumping station.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    edited August 2023
    Hotel du Vin, Exeter

    I malign Exeter because most of it is postwar redbrick tat or stupidly ugly concrete but this is quite a decent view


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,135

    Leon said:

    I’m not sure there’s been a greater British sportsman in my entire life - than Stokes

    He’s won world cups in both white ball formats, he’s batted some of the greatest innings in the history of the sport, and he has personally (with some help) transformed the way Test cricket is played

    Who else? Beckham? Botham? I guess Bobby moore simply for lifting the World Cup? But I was about 3 weeks old and didn’t notice. Seb Coe? A fine athlete but not iconic. Steve Redgrave? It was just rowing

    Andy Murray? Bravo for winning Wimbledon after 200 years but not really in the same league in transforming a sport

    For me it is Stokes

    He’s good, no question, but not that good. Test average in the mid thirties. He has played some crucial knocks in extreme circs for sure (WC finals) and 2019 at Edgebaston, but I’d argue the case for Botham as a better cricketer, if not as a leader.

    It’s a bit of a mugs game, if fun, to compare other sports. Arguably Steve Redgrave - sustained excellence over 5 Olympic cycles, Mo Farar double double golds, Ronnie O Sullavan for sheer brilliance, James Anderson for longevity and excellence.
    Botham averaged 33 with the bat over his career (although he also averaged 28 with the ball).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,565
    edited August 2023

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    Queen's Gambit was quite good on Netflix. That's about all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,693

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,280

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    This would be a bad thing for the country, but I’d guess you could be right.

    The party needs the likes of Rory Stewart and David Herdson to come back and the likes of David Campbell Bannerman to go back to UKIP or whatever lunatic right wing fringe party they came from. The party has been as infiltrated as much by UKIPPers as Labour was by the hard left under Corbyn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,783

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    New but long-expected.

    I think the case here might well be more difficult for Trump than the Federal cases, and, if he gets re-elected and ends up being convicted, I don't think he would have the power to pardon himself, as it's a prosecution under state law. What a constitutional mess that would be, though.
    Georgia is also unusual in the Governor not being able to grant pardons either - it's delegated to a Paroles Board.

    Some amusing tidbits from Georgia parole rules:

    "Good conduct, achievement of a fifth-grade level or higher on standardized reading tests, and efficient performance of duties by an inmate shall be considered by the board in his favor and shall merit consideration of an application for pardon or parole." So Trump better brush up on his reading skills.

    "Furthermore, no person shall be released on pardon or placed on parole unless and until the board is satisfied that he will be suitably employed in self-sustaining employment or that he will not become a public charge." Not sure if the Presidency is a plus or minus in this respect.

    "However, the board may, in its discretion, grant pardon or parole to any aged or disabled persons." Maybe Donald should consider replicating Biden's well-publicised stumbles.

    It's hard to come to terms with the realistic possibility that the US may be heading for a situation where the president is banged up in a Georgian prison cell. How on earth could that be conceivable? But it is.
    It's still hard to believe anything will happen pre-election, but it's also hard to believe Trump did not commit a brazen crime in relation to Georgia at the very least just on what we know for sure he has said or done even without seeing the indictment details yet.

    I assume even if tried before the election he'd be out pending appeal by the time of it, so would be spared the admittedly surreal experience of being released from prison in order to take up office, in the event he wins the election.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    Oh please God no, not another Cameron. I couldnt go through another Brexit referendum.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,192
    edited August 2023
    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,565
    kle4 said:

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    New but long-expected.

    I think the case here might well be more difficult for Trump than the Federal cases, and, if he gets re-elected and ends up being convicted, I don't think he would have the power to pardon himself, as it's a prosecution under state law. What a constitutional mess that would be, though.
    Georgia is also unusual in the Governor not being able to grant pardons either - it's delegated to a Paroles Board.

    Some amusing tidbits from Georgia parole rules:

    "Good conduct, achievement of a fifth-grade level or higher on standardized reading tests, and efficient performance of duties by an inmate shall be considered by the board in his favor and shall merit consideration of an application for pardon or parole." So Trump better brush up on his reading skills.

    "Furthermore, no person shall be released on pardon or placed on parole unless and until the board is satisfied that he will be suitably employed in self-sustaining employment or that he will not become a public charge." Not sure if the Presidency is a plus or minus in this respect.

    "However, the board may, in its discretion, grant pardon or parole to any aged or disabled persons." Maybe Donald should consider replicating Biden's well-publicised stumbles.

    It's hard to come to terms with the realistic possibility that the US may be heading for a situation where the president is banged up in a Georgian prison cell. How on earth could that be conceivable? But it is.
    It's still hard to believe anything will happen pre-election, but it's also hard to believe Trump did not commit a brazen crime in relation to Georgia at the very least just on what we know for sure he has said or done even without seeing the indictment details yet.

    I assume even if tried before the election he'd be out pending appeal by the time of it, so would be spared the admittedly surreal experience of being released from prison in order to take up office, in the event he wins the election.
    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,055

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I'd agree with that prognosis in isolation, but Starmer is no Blair and the economic circumstances are far from as kind. If the Labour government becomes deeply unpopular, and the Tories are still toxic, what then?

    It could be that it opens an opportunity for the Lib Dems, I guess, but there's a fair chance that the electorate would go for the insane option, particularly with the right-wing elements of the media behind them.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,352

    Well.


    I am not convinced entirely about all this. In a place the size of NI is it really possible that sufficiently determined people don't already know exactly who is a copper and where they live?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    Surely Sean Bean dies?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,168
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    I’m not sure there’s been a greater British sportsman in my entire life - than Stokes

    He’s won world cups in both white ball formats, he’s batted some of the greatest innings in the history of the sport, and he has personally (with some help) transformed the way Test cricket is played

    Who else? Beckham? Botham? I guess Bobby moore simply for lifting the World Cup? But I was about 3 weeks old and didn’t notice. Seb Coe? A fine athlete but not iconic. Steve Redgrave? It was just rowing

    Andy Murray? Bravo for winning Wimbledon after 200 years but not really in the same league in transforming a sport

    For me it is Stokes

    He’s good, no question, but not that good. Test average in the mid thirties. He has played some crucial knocks in extreme circs for sure (WC finals) and 2019 at Edgebaston, but I’d argue the case for Botham as a better cricketer, if not as a leader.

    It’s a bit of a mugs game, if fun, to compare other sports. Arguably Steve Redgrave - sustained excellence over 5 Olympic cycles, Mo Farar double double golds, Ronnie O Sullavan for sheer brilliance, James Anderson for longevity and excellence.
    Botham averaged 33 with the bat over his career (although he also averaged 28 with the ball).
    300 test wickets swings it for me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,565

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    Oh please God no, not another Cameron. I couldnt go through another Brexit referendum.

    It would have to be a rejoin referendum, you can't Brexit twice.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,783
    algarkirk said:

    Well.


    I am not convinced entirely about all this. In a place the size of NI is it really possible that sufficiently determined people don't already know exactly who is a copper and where they live?
    It may be harder than you think. Even if it is not, the additional effort required really would prevent what might be termed casual dissident nutters from getting the information, who wouldn't have gone looking but will make use of a windfall.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,693
    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    Oh please God no, not another Cameron. I couldnt go through another Brexit referendum.

    It would have to be a rejoin referendum, you can't Brexit twice.
    If the next Tory PM has the characteristics of Cameron it will be twice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    Stokes changed test Cricket and won world cups. He is an incredible captain. He can’t be compared to anyone else. It’s not a matter of averages with Stokes
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,690

    Leon said:

    I’m not sure there’s been a greater British sportsman in my entire life - than Stokes

    He’s won world cups in both white ball formats, he’s batted some of the greatest innings in the history of the sport, and he has personally (with some help) transformed the way Test cricket is played

    Who else? Beckham? Botham? I guess Bobby moore simply for lifting the World Cup? But I was about 3 weeks old and didn’t notice. Seb Coe? A fine athlete but not iconic. Steve Redgrave? It was just rowing

    Andy Murray? Bravo for winning Wimbledon after 200 years but not really in the same league in transforming a sport

    For me it is Stokes

    He’s good, no question, but not that good. Test average in the mid thirties. He has played some crucial knocks in extreme circs for sure (WC finals) and 2019 at Edgebaston, but I’d argue the case for Botham as a better cricketer, if not as a leader.

    It’s a bit of a mugs game, if fun, to compare other sports. Arguably Steve Redgrave - sustained excellence over 5 Olympic cycles, Mo Farar double double golds, Ronnie O Sullavan for sheer brilliance, James Anderson for longevity and excellence.
    Ben Ainsley for me for his achievements in the Olympics and America's Cup.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    Surely Sean Bean dies?
    I think that's the point. like walking out of Romeo & Juliet because you can see the saccharine happy ending coming a mile off.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,952
    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    It was actually Liz Truss in the end.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,192
    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    Was on Isay, off Skye, in June, where this happened

    In the 16th century, the main house on the island was inhabited by the MacLeods of Lewis, and it was here that Roderick Macleod of Lewis ('Nimheach' - the venomous) implemented his plan to ensure that his grandson would inherit Raasay and the lands of Gairloch. He convened the two powerful families (names do not appear to have been recorded) of the time at Isay house for a banquet which he suggested was to inform them of good news. During the feast, he invited each person present to accompany him outside of the banquet hall in order to inform them of this news. Upon leaving the hall the victim was promptly stabbed to death. In this way, both families were wiped out.[4][6][7]
  • tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    Surely Sean Bean dies?
    Spoilers, sweetie!
    I didnt start watching GOT until after Sean Bean died.
    I missed out on Sopranos, Lost, Breaking Bad, 6 feet under, and probably loads of others. I say missed out because other people raved over them, who knows what I would have thought. You can't watch everything, especially when you're also trying to keep up with current affairs.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Miklosvar said:

    tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    Surely Sean Bean dies?
    I think that's the point. like walking out of Romeo & Juliet because you can see the saccharine happy ending coming a mile off.
    Too true
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,352
    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well.


    I am not convinced entirely about all this. In a place the size of NI is it really possible that sufficiently determined people don't already know exactly who is a copper and where they live?
    It may be harder than you think. Even if it is not, the additional effort required really would prevent what might be termed casual dissident nutters from getting the information, who wouldn't have gone looking but will make use of a windfall.
    I am sorry to say that if someone seriously wants to kill a policeman in any part of the UK it is quite possible to do so. This is doubly true in any situation where arms are available - as recent shootings show. It happens to be an occupation where invisibility all the time is not an option. To that end you don't have to know where a single one lives. You just have to await an opportunity.

    On the whole people who kill policemen are not going to trouble especially about the name and status.

    One reason why a whole life tariff is right for this offence.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,799
    nico679 said:

    A higher result for the Tories in the Redfield and Wilton poll . Upto 28% , Reform down 2%.

    Labours lead upto 20 points as Reform voters head back to their natural party the Tories .

    Whatever the Tories polling it’s clear that they can add most of the Reform who decide to vote at the next GE.

    As far as tonight's R&W is concerned, Labour are up three and Reform down three - some of the Reform numbers have looked like outliers - it'll be interesting to see if Opinium's 10% for Reform holds this coming weekend.

    The Greens are down two and the Conservatives up one.

    Starmer leads Sunak by ten in the best PM numbers so this looks a solid poll for Labour.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,693
    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    The Tories are going to lose the thick end of 100 seats. Whether that is enough to give Labour an overall majority will depend on how many seats Labour get back from the SNP. But 2028 could get even worse for the Tories unless they get their act together.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,693

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    Why would they do that? The will keep muttering about fiscal discipline and how everything else is an aspiration and then work out what they can actually do when in Number 10.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,352

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 688
    boulay said:

    If anyone is looking for a series to get into then I can, so far, recommend “Painkiller” on Netflix re The Sacklers/Purdue/Oxy.

    The reviews I've seen reckons Dopesick (on the same subject) is better.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,756
    tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    Surely Sean Bean dies?
    Shh! Spoilers! 😀
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    SandraMc said:

    boulay said:

    If anyone is looking for a series to get into then I can, so far, recommend “Painkiller” on Netflix re The Sacklers/Purdue/Oxy.

    The reviews I've seen reckons Dopesick (on the same subject) is better.
    Thanks, might give it a go too but enjoying Painkiller anyway.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,278


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
  • DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I'm not 100% sure she'll survive the 2024 massacre. She has a very good majority, but Portsmouth North is quite elastic and was Labour when they were last in office.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,693


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    There must surely come a point when enough of even the Republican party will realise this really isn't on.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,756


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    Isn't Mar a Lego in Florida and thereby outside Georgian jurisdiction? He can't release himself from a state prison, it isn't federal. He'll have to be like Grouty in Porridge.
  • algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
    I'd not necessarily bank on that, and suspect it's wishful thinking.

    I'm probably not alone in suspecting, based on CV and demeanour, that he'd be rather better at governing than the retail side of politics. He has tiny shoes to fill at least.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,783
    viewcode said:


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    Isn't Mar a Lego in Florida and thereby outside Georgian jurisdiction? He can't release himself from a state prison, it isn't federal. He'll have to be like Grouty in Porridge.
    In some countries I think they don't put people above a certain age in prison itself I believe, but I doubt the USA has such a policy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,783

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    It was actually Liz Truss in the end.
    Shocking given her being a fan of republicans


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,756
    DavidL said:


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    There must surely come a point when enough of even the Republican party will realise this really isn't on.
    It's the 2022 GOP. Everybody sensible left after 2016 or 2020. The current party is full of nutcases or cynics. The guy nearly pulled off a coup. Why would a spell in prison bother them?
  • viewcode said:


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    Isn't Mar a Lego in Florida and thereby outside Georgian jurisdiction? He can't release himself from a state prison, it isn't federal. He'll have to be like Grouty in Porridge.
    Genial Donald Trump?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
    I'd not necessarily bank on that, and suspect it's wishful thinking.

    I'm probably not alone in suspecting, based on CV and demeanour, that he'd be rather better at governing than the retail side of politics. He has tiny shoes to fill at least.
    The country needs a bout of reform. Hes not the type of person to upset the apple cart, Wrong man for the times.
  • Trump is going to learn how to toss the salad in prison.
  • algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
    I'd not necessarily bank on that, and suspect it's wishful thinking.

    I'm probably not alone in suspecting, based on CV and demeanour, that he'd be rather better at governing than the retail side of politics. He has tiny shoes to fill at least.
    The country needs a bout of reform. Hes not the type of person to upset the apple cart, Wrong man for the times.
    I don't agree. I think it needs a period of stability and sanity.

    Truss was the "bout of reform & upset the apple cart" PM.
  • kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    It was actually Liz Truss in the end.
    Shocking given her being a fan of republicans


    She met the Queen and the Queen died two days later.

    Coincidence?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    He could go full Pablo Escobar and build his own prison guarded by his MAGA cohorts.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Stark illustration of the absolute disaster of Cameron's and Osborne's austerity policy. None of our peers followed us down that route.

    The Conservatives have done nothing else right since then, either.


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
    I'd not necessarily bank on that, and suspect it's wishful thinking.

    I'm probably not alone in suspecting, based on CV and demeanour, that he'd be rather better at governing than the retail side of politics. He has tiny shoes to fill at least.
    The country needs a bout of reform. Hes not the type of person to upset the apple cart, Wrong man for the times.
    I don't agree. I think it needs a period of stability and sanity.

    Truss was the "bout of reform & upset the apple cart" PM.
    Truss mismanaged her agenda and yet the "grown ups" appear to have achieved the results they were warning about.

    The country needs a bout of reform as the system we have had since 1997 isnt working.
  • Oh dear, how sad, nevermind.

    At least 11 people, including four Russian soldiers, are said to have been killed when shooting erupted between President Putin’s forces in occupied southern Ukraine.

    Ukrainian officials said that the gun battle occurred when Chechen fighters loyal to the Kremlin clashed with Russian soldiers in the village of Urzuf, around 25 miles from Mariupol, the Ukrainian port city that was seized by Moscow last year.

    Footage published by Ukrainian officials showed two dead bodies slumped in bullet-riddled cars. One of the dead men was wearing a military uniform and the other was dressed in civilian clothing.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-latest-putin-war-ukraine-wagner-chechen-army-qcps3w2sn
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,189
    The fact Labour is gaining in polls in Scotland compared to 2019 as well as now being ahead in England helps Labour gain a majority as they will gain seats from the SNP as well as the Conservatives.

    I doubt any alternative Tory leader would make a difference, the only one who might make a slight difference and give a poll boost is Penny Mordaunt but she is too woke for Tory MPs and Tory members. More likely Braverman or Barclay or Badenoch would be picked as leader and they would likely do no better or even worse than Sunak.

    Plus 3 changes of Tory PM in 1 parliament is absurd, the Tories should focus on getting inflation down as Sunak and Hunt are doing and then getting interest rates down will follow, as well as controlling the boats. That is likely to make much more of an impact than another leadership change. Any further leadership change can wait and if Sunak does lose the next general election his resignation and a Tory leadership challenge will then soon follow
  • algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    At some point Labour are going to have to introduce policies they will stick to

    Thats when the fun will start
    That really goes without saying. Opposition may be dull but it is much easier than government. Government is constrained by the Overton window, the fabric of reality, the billion laws passed by your predecessors since about 1200, the inherent contradictions in what people want and need, the place from which you start (about as unpromising as could be), the finite nature of power, our age of problems without solutions, and the infinite demands of a disappointed public.
    All of that but Labour arent helped by how useless Starmer is. He has a huge task ahead if he becomes PM and has shown little sign he can hack it.

    Maybe the election after next we will have candidates like Milei in Argentina
    I'd not necessarily bank on that, and suspect it's wishful thinking.

    I'm probably not alone in suspecting, based on CV and demeanour, that he'd be rather better at governing than the retail side of politics. He has tiny shoes to fill at least.
    The country needs a bout of reform. Hes not the type of person to upset the apple cart, Wrong man for the times.
    Two ways of doing reform, though. One is the loud proclamation that we're going to reform everything and upset the apple cart as much as possible. The other is more like the magician who tells you to take any card you want, and somehow everyone always ends up with the card the magician intends.

    The story of our nation since 2019 has been leaders trying the first and it not working very well. The second, boring as it is, seems worth a try.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,189
    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I’m not convinced there will be a massacre . Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Tories eviscerated but expect they’ll make a recovery upto the GE and Labour might end up just largest party or with a small majority.
    The Tories are going to lose the thick end of 100 seats. Whether that is enough to give Labour an overall majority will depend on how many seats Labour get back from the SNP. But 2028 could get even worse for the Tories unless they get their act together.
    Or if inflation remains high and the economy in a relatively poor state with sluggish growth it could see as quick a swing back to the Opposition as 1970 or 1974 or 1979
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FPT Obama was a middling president - neither the best, nor the worst. But he rightly claims his place in the pantheon of presidents for the symbolism of the first black president in a country with a very troubled race history.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,660
    FF43 said:

    FPT Obama was a middling president - neither the best, nor the worst. But he rightly claims his place in the pantheon of presidents for the symbolism of the first black president in a country with a very troubled race history.

    Amen

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited August 2023
    Quote" rel="TheScreamingEagles">Trump is going to learn how to toss the salad in prison.

    Euphemism, right?
  • DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    He was caught lying on the BBC . So a perfect fit for the next Tory Leader .
    Don't know about that but in my view Penny Mordaunt will be the next leader and LOTO who will do well enough to prevent the 2024 massacre being consolidated.
    I'm not 100% sure she'll survive the 2024 massacre. She has a very good majority, but Portsmouth North is quite elastic and was Labour when they were last in office.
    But s

    Trump is going to learn how to toss the salad in prison.

    Euphemism, right?
    You really don't want to google 'tossing the salad', it is a well known American prison experience.

    Absolutely don't look it up if you are eating or have just eaten.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tossing the salad
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,189
    DavidL said:

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    I tend to agree. There are, simply, far too many nutters who hold positions of influence in the party. In contrast I heard Barclay this morning on R4. Very effective, very on top of his brief, good with numbers. But it needs a team, as Cameron had with Osborne, it is not enough to have one. Blair/Brown showed the same.
    If Barclay gets to the membership and faces any candidate but Badenoch he likely becomes next Tory leader in my view, most Rishi backing MPs would switch to Barclay in opposition.

    Barclay would be Hague to Sunak's Major, or Ed Miliband to Sunak's Brown
  • Well.

    British pollster YouGov has threatened to shift its listing to New York amid an exodus of companies from the London Stock Exchange.

    The market research firm, which was founded by Stephan Shakespeare and former chancellor Nadhim Zahawi, said it was considering the move after expanding its business through a recent takeover.

    Mr Shakespeare told the Financial Times: “I think the markets are better at supporting companies like ours there.”

    He said YouGov could either transfer its primary listing to New York or establish a secondary listing.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/08/14/yougov-quit-london-new-york-city-exodus/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,189

    Is this new ?

    US state of Georgia files legal action against Trump

    New but long-expected.

    I think the case here might well be more difficult for Trump than the Federal cases, and, if he gets re-elected and ends up being convicted, I don't think he would have the power to pardon himself, as it's a prosecution under state law. What a constitutional mess that would be, though.
    Georgia is also unusual in the Governor not being able to grant pardons either - it's delegated to a Paroles Board.

    Some amusing tidbits from Georgia parole rules:

    "Good conduct, achievement of a fifth-grade level or higher on standardized reading tests, and efficient performance of duties by an inmate shall be considered by the board in his favor and shall merit consideration of an application for pardon or parole." So Trump better brush up on his reading skills.

    "Furthermore, no person shall be released on pardon or placed on parole unless and until the board is satisfied that he will be suitably employed in self-sustaining employment or that he will not become a public charge." Not sure if the Presidency is a plus or minus in this respect.

    "However, the board may, in its discretion, grant pardon or parole to any aged or disabled persons." Maybe Donald should consider replicating Biden's well-publicised stumbles.

    It's hard to come to terms with the realistic possibility that the US may be heading for a situation where the president is banged up in a Georgian prison cell. How on earth could that be conceivable? But it is.
    It likely won't happen, even half of GOP voters tell polls they won't vote for Trump again if he is convicted
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
  • What a wanker, no wonder he backs Putin.

    RMT general secretary Mick Lynch admits he can turn against supporting England at World Cups because he gets annoyed by some of the hype around them.

    Lynch travels to watch Republic of Ireland matches and suggests he happily supports Scotland and Wales when they are at major tournaments.

    But when it comes to England, he told an audience in Edinburgh that his backing depends on “how pompous the British press is”.

    Lynch’s football allegiances, in stark contrast with many of the GMT’s 560,000 membership, were detailed in a talk with the broadcaster Iain Dale. The 61-year-old said his Irish heritage was “very important to me” and he had “never had a British passport ever”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/14/rmt-chief-mick-lynch-england-world-cup-iain-dale-edinburgh/
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,189

    Miklosvar said:


    I think it will split two ways: populist anti immigrant under Braverman or someone, and a kinder, gentler, euro-curious and housebuildy lot under whoever turns out to be the next Cameron.

    Assuming there's no big change to the electoral system, I think it will be a repeat, on steroids, of 1997-2005. A period of the party completely out in la-la land, possibly in the worst-case scenario under Braverman initially, until repeated electoral annihilation, sheer exhaustion, and the dying off and drifting away of the extremists, finally forces the party to accept that the only way back to power is to embrace reality again. Some future David Cameron will then be chosen as leader, and begin the long, hard slog of renewal.

    This will a very slow process. I'd say two parliamentary terms as an absolute minimum, but probably three or more, given how utterly insane the party has become.
    Fortunately for the Tories however, the economy a new Labour government will have to deal with will be worse than New Labour inherited in 1997. Inflation will certainly be higher, as likely will be interest rates, there will be more strikes and slower growth.

    The worst thing the Tories did for themselves in 1997 was leaving Blair and Brown a growing economy, balanced budget and low inflation and low unemployment. Major and Clarke did well by the country but as New Labour didn't muck it up unlike some of their Labour predecessors that was pivotal as to why the Tories spent so long in opposition from 1997 to 2010
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,308
    HYUFD said:

    The fact Labour is gaining in polls in Scotland compared to 2019 as well as now being ahead in England helps Labour gain a majority as they will gain seats from the SNP as well as the Conservatives.

    I doubt any alternative Tory leader would make a difference, the only one who might make a slight difference and give a poll boost is Penny Mordaunt but she is too woke for Tory MPs and Tory members. More likely Braverman or Barclay or Badenoch would be picked as leader and they would likely do no better or even worse than Sunak.

    Plus 3 changes of Tory PM in 1 parliament is absurd, the Tories should focus on getting inflation down as Sunak and Hunt are doing and then getting interest rates down will follow, as well as controlling the boats. That is likely to make much more of an impact than another leadership change. Any further leadership change can wait and if Sunak does lose the next general election his resignation and a Tory leadership challenge will then soon follow

    Spot on. Even lefties like me think Mordaunt is the Tories' best chance of appealing to the voters they have lost over the last three years. But she has no chance because the members think she's too woke (whatever that means), so she wouldn't win a leadership election.
    Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face - no wonder your party's in trouble.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,783

    What a wanker, no wonder he backs Putin.

    RMT general secretary Mick Lynch admits he can turn against supporting England at World Cups because he gets annoyed by some of the hype around them.

    Lynch travels to watch Republic of Ireland matches and suggests he happily supports Scotland and Wales when they are at major tournaments.

    But when it comes to England, he told an audience in Edinburgh that his backing depends on “how pompous the British press is”.

    Lynch’s football allegiances, in stark contrast with many of the GMT’s 560,000 membership, were detailed in a talk with the broadcaster Iain Dale. The 61-year-old said his Irish heritage was “very important to me” and he had “never had a British passport ever”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/14/rmt-chief-mick-lynch-england-world-cup-iain-dale-edinburgh/

    Do England really get hyped? My general impression is the press goes a bit nuts in expressing support, and there's a lot of feeling that the team should have done better than they have in the past, but that acknowledged they underperform so is not really hype.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    You forget youre english and nobody wants you.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,218

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    That's nice dear.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,135
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    There must be literally dozens of Netflix and Amazon series (amongst others) dating back well over 10 years I still haven't seen.

    I never finished 24 (got too predictable) and gave up after Season 2 of Prison Break. Never got beyond the Red Wedding in GOT, which I thought was appalling.

    Not really bothered since to be honest, apart from Picard and BBC nature documentaries.

    I gave up on GoT because after two episodes it was obvious that goodie two shoes Sean Bean character was going to become the king.
    It was actually Liz Truss in the end.
    Shocking given her being a fan of republicans


    Wearing a literal tinfoil hat?

    She never did have any sense.
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    You forget youre english and nobody wants you.
    Everybody wants us.

    It is Celtic inferiority that leads to the Celts having smaller todgers.
  • viewcode said:


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    Isn't Mar a Lego in Florida and thereby outside Georgian jurisdiction? He can't release himself from a state prison, it isn't federal. He'll have to be like Grouty in Porridge.
    "Livin' it up at the Hotel Mar a Lago!"
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,048

    What a wanker, no wonder he backs Putin.

    RMT general secretary Mick Lynch admits he can turn against supporting England at World Cups because he gets annoyed by some of the hype around them.

    Lynch travels to watch Republic of Ireland matches and suggests he happily supports Scotland and Wales when they are at major tournaments.

    But when it comes to England, he told an audience in Edinburgh that his backing depends on “how pompous the British press is”.

    Lynch’s football allegiances, in stark contrast with many of the GMT’s 560,000 membership, were detailed in a talk with the broadcaster Iain Dale. The 61-year-old said his Irish heritage was “very important to me” and he had “never had a British passport ever”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/14/rmt-chief-mick-lynch-england-world-cup-iain-dale-edinburgh/

    From reading his Wiki, he seems to have an Irish Passport and supports Brexit. So no contradiction there...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    You forget youre english and nobody wants you.
    Everybody wants us.

    It is Celtic inferiority that leads to the Celts having smaller todgers.

    thats why weve got three of them
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    That's nice dear.
    Within five years more people will admit to engaging in bestiality than admit to voting Brexit.
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    You forget youre english and nobody wants you.
    NI voted to Remain, 56% v. 44%
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,728

    viewcode said:


    In the very unlikely event he's in prison and wins the election, I very much doubt he'd be released in order to take up office; he can swear the oath in his cell.

    Housing the nuclear football, the security detail, and the secure communications kit in Calhoun State Prison would be an interesting challenge.
    He could sign an executive order to classify Mar a Lago as a prison and then lease it to the state at great expense.
    Isn't Mar a Lego in Florida and thereby outside Georgian jurisdiction? He can't release himself from a state prison, it isn't federal. He'll have to be like Grouty in Porridge.
    "Livin' it up at the Hotel Mar a Lago!"
    Maybe they can find an Oval Cell for him, or at least a white one.
  • Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    Various manifestations of old age, mostly.

    But it's indelicate to point out the relevance of that to the Brexit debate.

    However - how long do you expect a generation that opposed the idea in the first place and think it's going badly to keep it as a shrine to their ancestors?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,218

    HYUFD said:

    The fact Labour is gaining in polls in Scotland compared to 2019 as well as now being ahead in England helps Labour gain a majority as they will gain seats from the SNP as well as the Conservatives.

    I doubt any alternative Tory leader would make a difference, the only one who might make a slight difference and give a poll boost is Penny Mordaunt but she is too woke for Tory MPs and Tory members. More likely Braverman or Barclay or Badenoch would be picked as leader and they would likely do no better or even worse than Sunak.

    Plus 3 changes of Tory PM in 1 parliament is absurd, the Tories should focus on getting inflation down as Sunak and Hunt are doing and then getting interest rates down will follow, as well as controlling the boats. That is likely to make much more of an impact than another leadership change. Any further leadership change can wait and if Sunak does lose the next general election his resignation and a Tory leadership challenge will then soon follow

    Spot on. Even lefties like me think Mordaunt is the Tories' best chance of appealing to the voters they have lost over the last three years. But she has no chance because the members think she's too woke (whatever that means), so she wouldn't win a leadership election.
    Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face - no wonder your party's in trouble.
    Hang about, Mordaunt never made it to the members, so how can you possibly make that assumption? Members are constantly getting kicked here, but they only had a choice between the toxic charisma vacuum currently occupying number 10, and Truss. That was a choice engineered by Rishi's campaign, and between the two, the members were spot on.
  • kle4 said:

    What a wanker, no wonder he backs Putin.

    RMT general secretary Mick Lynch admits he can turn against supporting England at World Cups because he gets annoyed by some of the hype around them.

    Lynch travels to watch Republic of Ireland matches and suggests he happily supports Scotland and Wales when they are at major tournaments.

    But when it comes to England, he told an audience in Edinburgh that his backing depends on “how pompous the British press is”.

    Lynch’s football allegiances, in stark contrast with many of the GMT’s 560,000 membership, were detailed in a talk with the broadcaster Iain Dale. The 61-year-old said his Irish heritage was “very important to me” and he had “never had a British passport ever”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/14/rmt-chief-mick-lynch-england-world-cup-iain-dale-edinburgh/

    Do England really get hyped? My general impression is the press goes a bit nuts in expressing support, and there's a lot of feeling that the team should have done better than they have in the past, but that acknowledged they underperform so is not really hype.
    We all know we'll get knocked out in a penalty shootout.

    It is no coincidence that England have started doing better at international tournaments since they've been managed by a woke manager and woke players.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,218

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    That's nice dear.
    Within five years more people will admit to engaging in bestiality than admit to voting Brexit.
    Ok, good for you.
  • CatMan said:

    What a wanker, no wonder he backs Putin.

    RMT general secretary Mick Lynch admits he can turn against supporting England at World Cups because he gets annoyed by some of the hype around them.

    Lynch travels to watch Republic of Ireland matches and suggests he happily supports Scotland and Wales when they are at major tournaments.

    But when it comes to England, he told an audience in Edinburgh that his backing depends on “how pompous the British press is”.

    Lynch’s football allegiances, in stark contrast with many of the GMT’s 560,000 membership, were detailed in a talk with the broadcaster Iain Dale. The 61-year-old said his Irish heritage was “very important to me” and he had “never had a British passport ever”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/14/rmt-chief-mick-lynch-england-world-cup-iain-dale-edinburgh/

    From reading his Wiki, he seems to have an Irish Passport and supports Brexit. So no contradiction there...
    He's like that Pakistani heritage Muslim dude that's a member of the English Defence League.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2481474/EDLs-Muslim-member-fined-threatening-behaviour-Asian-men-rally.html
  • kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Well.


    I am not convinced entirely about all this. In a place the size of NI is it really possible that sufficiently determined people don't already know exactly who is a copper and where they live?
    It may be harder than you think. Even if it is not, the additional effort required really would prevent what might be termed casual dissident nutters from getting the information, who wouldn't have gone looking but will make use of a windfall.
    Yes, the new hard men with guns are less numerous and not as well organised as the old hard men with guns. In Northern Ireland, there may also be more undercover police officers or others in sensitive roles, or who might have offended one community or other in the past.

    In short, someone messed up, but it should also remind us that often privacy is important.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    edited August 2023

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    We'll rejoin without a plebiscite.
    You forget youre english and nobody wants you.
    NI voted to Remain, 56% v. 44%

    Almost half of voters – including one in five Leavers – believe there should be another Brexit referendum in the next decade, a new poll has found.

    A YouGov survey revealed that 46 per cent of people believe there should be a rerun of the 2016 vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union in the next 10 years.

    Just over a third – 36 per cent – said they believe there should not be a referendum in that period.

    The poll, conducted between Aug 8 and 9, also suggested that almost half of people believe Brexit “is not done”.

    Some 49 per cent of respondents said they believe Brexit is not yet done and dusted, while 30 per cent said they believe the matter is done.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/14/brexit-voters-second-referendum/

    LOL

    its the hope that kills you
    Various manifestations of old age, mostly.

    But it's indelicate to point out the relevance of that to the Brexit debate.

    However - how long do you expect a generation that opposed the idea in the first place and think it's going badly to keep it as a shrine to their ancestors?
    I dont expect that at all. I expect time will move on, the priorities change and follow on generations will seek different things.

    At present the polling is being flattered by not having the EU in the media. Weve forgotten the downsides. Run a campaign and that all changes. Rejoin\ Remain would have to set out a positive case, something they manifestly failed to do while in. The hurdles for rejoining are higher and more expensive.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644
    edited August 2023
    FF43 said:

    Stark illustration of the absolute disaster of Cameron's and Osborne's austerity policy. None of our peers followed us down that route.

    The Conservatives have done nothing else right since then, either.


    It's not really Cameron's fault that Gordon Brown stoked a credit-fuelled boom, or that the UK had the largest financial sector in the EU at the time. (Edit: and don't forget that $ rate includes the post-Brexit slide of the sterling, bad for people buying lots of iPhones or holidays, but the average person doesn't care as much.)
This discussion has been closed.