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The concerns of LAB voters compared with CON ones – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,217
edited July 2023 in General
imageThe concerns of LAB voters compared with CON ones – politicalbetting.com

I find the above chart absolutely fascinating particularly when there is a large divergence between the parties.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Err Britain leaving the EU shows Labour voters slightly ahead of the Conservatives according to this graphic
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    OGH, am I reading the chart wrong, because looks to me that with respect to "Britain leaving the EU" the latest R&W does NOT suggest that "For LAB voters the latter barely registers."

    Instead, just over 10% of BOTH Labour and Conservative supporters rate it as their top issue.

    BTW, hope you're feeling better AND on the mend; also visa versa!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    PBers, please note close-to-final comment on previous thread by Peck, new poster but long lurker.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    My post is right - look on a bigger screen
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    My post is right - look on a bigger screen

    AM looking on a big screen via my pc. The two dots beside "Britain leaving the EU" are almost on top of each other, with Labour a point or two higher.

    What are the precise numbers for each group?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    OK, just found the data tables via this link
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-2-july-2023/

    According to R&W, "Britain Leaving the EU" was among top three issues mentioned by 10% of total survey; for respondents who said they voted for in GE2019 for
    > Labour =12%
    > Conservative = 11%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256

    My post is right - look on a bigger screen

    AM looking on a big screen via my pc. The two dots beside "Britain leaving the EU" are almost on top of each other, with Labour a point or two higher.

    What are the precise numbers for each group?
    That's why Labour barely registers - it's hidden under the Tory dot.

    And in any event, it's a meaninglessly ambiguous metric - it's an issue for me, but only because I believe it a big mistake.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    LOL. China banned the Barbie movie over this map:
    https://twitter.com/rzhongnotes/status/1675936014135619584
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Notable that Tory voters seem to give even less of a crap about the Union than do Labour.
  • Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    Ironically, I just get "Something went wrong. Try reloading."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, I think there's definitely space and appetite for an alternative to Twitter but Meta/Facebook is the company I might least trust to do it.

    I forget the specifics, but VR headset users were pissed that the promise not to require a Facebook signin for the hardware was broken.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    My post is right - look on a bigger screen

    AM looking on a big screen via my pc. The two dots beside "Britain leaving the EU" are almost on top of each other, with Labour a point or two higher.

    What are the precise numbers for each group?
    That's why Labour barely registers - it's hidden under the Tory dot.

    And in any event, it's a meaninglessly ambiguous metric - it's an issue for me, but only because I believe it a big mistake.
    Interesting, however, that the question in question did NOT use the B-word.

    Which might have goosed the numbers some . . . but perhaps with bit more difference between Lab and Con?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    It's going to be fairly interesting. So far, once a social media channel has reached a critical mass, it is very hard to dislodge. however much money you chuck at it. See Google+.

    So we have Facebook, Twitter, TikTok and Instragram; all to some extents overlapping, but also with their own niches. The barrier to creating a new platform are massively high against established orgs.

    Unless one of those current behemoths mucks up, and not only leaves the goal open wide, but hands you the ball and straps their goalkeeper to the uprights. Can Twitter die? Yes, if its current ownership continues as it is - though I doubt it will ever fully be switched off.

    As for the alternatives: I don't trust Dorsey, and hence Bluesky. I use Facebook, but don't like the company or Zuckerberg - besides, they already own FB, Instragram and Whatsapp. Having them control a 'new' Twitter might be a little too much consolidation.

    Another interesting (to me) point: Musky Baby recently appointed a new Twitter CEO. Where is she in all of this? Why is he the one announcing all this?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, I think there's definitely space and appetite for an alternative to Twitter but Meta/Facebook is the company I might least trust to do it.

    I forget the specifics, but VR headset users were pissed that the promise not to require a Facebook signin for the hardware was broken.

    Yes, Facebook bought Oculus and promised at the time they’d be run totally separately.

    A year or two later, and a software update forced Facebook logins on people who’d spent four figures on hardware and either really didn’t want a Facebook login, or had been banned from the platform for wrong-think.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240

    Another interesting (to me) point: Musky Baby recently appointed a new Twitter CEO. Where is she in all of this? Why is he the one announcing all this?

    Musk announced a new CEO with a background in advertising, specifically to fix/improve Twitter’s ad sales. He then rate limited his entire user base which obviously kneecaps engagement and hence ad views.

    It’s quite spectacular really.

    I’ve noticed the number of ads I see on Twitter has increased vastly over the past few days - probably threefold. I wonder if they’ve pumped up the ads/organic ratio to compensate for the reduced views.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    The problem with Threads it that it requires an Instagram account, and it’s still not clear if you’ll be able to view threads without being logged in, which is what’s now driving people away from Twitter. Knowing Facebook and their appetite for data, that’s pretty unlikely.

    I think that Twitter will reverse on that one though, their impressions on popular posts must be way down, and a lot of the embedding (such as used to happen on this site, before it slowed things right down) has been broken.

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Government are even starting to lose the confidence of the Telegraph:

    Headline “Tory stealth tax raid to hurt 1.5m more workers than first thought”, referring to the failure of income tax bracket threasholds to increase with wage inflation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/news/stealth-tax-raid-hits-million-more-workers-than-planned/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    The Tories have become the anti immigrant party, and Labour has become the fix stuff that actually matters party. I know which one I'll be voting for.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited July 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    Ironically, I just get "Something went wrong. Try reloading."
    Perfect copy, then.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,842
    Scott_xP said:
    Unsurprising that you would follow a nation that has no idea about playing a game the right way. The Ozzies have probably been cheating for years and not been discovered until recently. How long had they been doing it...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    edited July 2023
    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
    It is truly odd that instead of leveraging Twitter's undoubted usefulness to grow revenue, Musk has limited or outright crippled functionality in an apparently futile attempt to force users to pay subscriptions.

    He might understand how to run engineering companies, and has amazing (if unappealing to me) skills in using social media. He just doesn't seem to understand how to run a social media service.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
    It was something I was vaguely aware of but being in the UK not that important because hey we don't get big earthquakes / tsunami (bar an example in 16th century Bristol) or similar here but it's the reason why we have a national emergency alert system and twitter was way more flexible there...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
    It was something I was vaguely aware of but being in the UK not that important because hey we don't get big earthquakes / tsunami (bar an example in 16th century Bristol) or similar here but it's the reason why we have a national emergency alert system and twitter was way more flexible there...
    The Bristol one is now more likely believed to have been a heavy storm at high tide
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    Yes, it’s the sort of thing that should have been done years ago, but it’s always easier to keep scaling what you have already, until one day it isn’t. The rumour was that the AWS bill was close to $1bn, as video content became more popular on the site, and the company was basically bankrupt a year ago when the new management came in. They way overpaid, have taken on a lot of debt, and need to get everything somewhat stable in a couple of years.

    Redesigning the infrastructure from scratch with a massive load (server load, not another Elon Musk joke!) will be horrible to work through for the developers, and is the sort of thing that indeed generates random errors all over the place. You can’t realistically QA that sort of scale either, so the only option is to try and drop as much load as possible through the changeover. Which is not good for an established service with millions of daily users.

    They would probably have seen a bump in paid users this week as well, which gives them the dilemma of revenue from subscriptions vs revenue from advertisers. The new CEO lady is an advertising industry veteran, so probably wants the status quo ante with more eyeballs viewing, whereas Musk wants a more balanced revenue model.

    The network effect is massive though, and if they can fix things in a week or two, it will be okay for them in the long run. It’s fun to watch an existing company go through so much change in such a short timescale,

    How Microsoft managed to kill Skype, right at the time we all started to get smartphones, and then through a pandemic when everyone worked from home, still takes some beating!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/02/the-rise-and-fall-of-skype.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    One part of the recent announcements (agreed with by Labour) is to reduce the massive amounts of agency work by actually employing enough people full time.

    Sensible in itself - if you have work that needs doing 365 days a year, year after year, contractors are always more expensive.

    I do wonder the effect that this is going to have, though. To start with, a big reduction in take home for many medics. That has the potential to cause some serious unrest.

    Of course, actually achieving the staff increases is another matter
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    edited July 2023
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
    It was something I was vaguely aware of but being in the UK not that important because hey we don't get big earthquakes / tsunami (bar an example in 16th century Bristol) or similar here but it's the reason why we have a national emergency alert system and twitter was way more flexible there...
    The Bristol one is now more likely believed to have been a heavy storm at high tide
    Are we not due a major volcanic explosion in the Canary Islands?

    And on that happy, thought, good morning!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    One part of the recent announcements (agreed with by Labour) is to reduce the massive amounts of agency work by actually employing enough people full time.

    Sensible in itself - if you have work that needs doing 365 days a year, year after year, contractors are always more expensive.

    I do wonder the effect that this is going to have, though. To start with, a big reduction in take home for many medics. That has the potential to cause some serious unrest.

    Of course, actually achieving the staff increases is another matter
    But how do you reduce agency staff when most head in that direction because it

    1) pays more
    2) means you avoid a lot of the admin side of the job

    the reality is the only way to reduce agency costs was/ is to make permanent pay as relatively well paid as contract work and I don't think that's possible given the pay restraints...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Twitter's latest bid to kill the platform is to redesign Tweetdeck and restrict it to verified users.

    Good news for PBers who don't like posted Tweets...

    Between Meta’s new Threads app and BlueSky (which I rather like) Twitter has a whole set of problems that didn’t exist 6 months ago.

    And one app will win because Twitter served a couple of purposes (quick news reporting, disaster management) where real time information is important and will drag all the audience into a single site.

    Musk really did throw away $44bn because he’s an idiot,.
    The "disaster management" angle is an interesting one. Apparently many orgs were using Twitter as a way of communicating emergency information. Its value for that decreases rapidly if the users cannot see the alerts. And who trusts Musky Baby not to have broken that functionality (or even to care about it?)

    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2013/introducing-twitter-alerts
    It is truly odd that instead of leveraging Twitter's undoubted usefulness to grow revenue, Musk has limited or outright crippled functionality in an apparently futile attempt to force users to pay subscriptions.

    He might understand how to run engineering companies, and has amazing (if unappealing to me) skills in using social media. He just doesn't seem to understand how to run a social media service.
    The twitter "for you" feed is now unreadable, just spam adverts and shock jocks.

    The "lists" function still works though, and I have created a few including "PB and Polling"* which is fairly useful. My "UK Medicine" list has quite a few followers.

    * contains a few former PB posters, like Tim etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    Yes, it’s the sort of thing that should have been done years ago, but it’s always easier to keep scaling what you have already, until one day it isn’t. The rumour was that the AWS bill was close to $1bn, as video content became more popular on the site, and the company was basically bankrupt a year ago when the new management came in....
    That doesn't pass the smell test.
    Musk's takeover has added a billion a year in debt interest expenses.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    To go back to the chart for a moment: Tory voters are motivated by the economy, healthcare, and migration in that order. The economy far outweighs the others, yet all the focus is on Stop The Boats - and they fail miserably on that measure and all the others.

    The Tories can't actually deliver policies because they are written in crayon, idiotic, incompetently managed and either illegal or crushed by the markets. They can't blame the blob of lefty lawyers or the last Labour government because it's all them. They're trying to say "Labour would make it worse" but it's hard to see how it could be worse when they are managing everything this badly.

    In essence: it's the economy stupid! And having been brutalized by the cost of living crisis we're now heading into the mortgage winter of discontent. "Yebbut that Sue Gray shouldn't have been allowed to talk to Starmer" isn't going to cut it...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    edited July 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    One part of the recent announcements (agreed with by Labour) is to reduce the massive amounts of agency work by actually employing enough people full time.

    Sensible in itself - if you have work that needs doing 365 days a year, year after year, contractors are always more expensive.

    I do wonder the effect that this is going to have, though. To start with, a big reduction in take home for many medics. That has the potential to cause some serious unrest.

    Of course, actually achieving the staff increases is another matter
    Not quite. The NHS Workforce Plan doesn't include the funding to pay salaries to all the new staff, and too little to actually train them. Hence many of them are likely to work agency/locums.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    So do you consider that savings should receive 0% interest like they have had for the past 14 years just to enable people to take out bigger and bigger mortgages?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    edited July 2023

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    To go back to the chart for a moment: Tory voters are motivated by the economy, healthcare, and migration in that order. The economy far outweighs the others, yet all the focus is on Stop The Boats - and they fail miserably on that measure and all the others.

    The Tories can't actually deliver policies because they are written in crayon, idiotic, incompetently managed and either illegal or crushed by the markets. They can't blame the blob of lefty lawyers or the last Labour government because it's all them. They're trying to say "Labour would make it worse" but it's hard to see how it could be worse when they are managing everything this badly.

    In essence: it's the economy stupid! And having been brutalized by the cost of living crisis we're now heading into the mortgage winter of discontent. "Yebbut that Sue Gray shouldn't have been allowed to talk to Starmer" isn't going to cut it...

    You forget though that Starmer was destroyed by having a beer and takeaway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
    The problem is that keeping things agnostic costs time and money, and these decisions are often made when there’s short supply of both - and a real pain to change things around later, as Twitter are discovering this week!

    Add to the vendors trying to differentiate themselves with ‘exclusive’ functionality that definitely isn’t lock-in, and we end up where we end up.

    Twitter was originally an SMS relay, with tiny amounts of data going through the servers. One doesn’t need to be an infrastructure architect, to understand that a service now hosting movie-length videos that get 100m hits a day, requires a somewhat different approach!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    Do you believe Musk had a sane project to move the infrastructure? I don't.

    It also does not make sense in another way: they would have known the date the bill becomes due. You don't make that date the project end-date; you make it month(s) earlier so you can get work through the wrinkles.

    It's quite simple: the alleged richest man in the world should pay his bills.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    edit wrong context,

    And sorry but it's £700 lost to local shops / businesses as the son will be cutting all expenditure to the bone... Multiple that a few times and the local shops will be closing down...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    Most teachers and probably lecturers undoubtedly believe the same of education.

    But I think it unlikely. It’s more that they’re very inept and their well-meaning but ignorant meddling has grave consequences.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
    If Elon Musk does want to move Twitter off the cloud then my first question (since I've not been following this at all) is does Musk know there is a land outside America? Does he have datacentres outside the United States (like the cloud vendors) or can he cover the rest of the world with global CDNs (which is not a cheap option either)?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
    If Elon Musk does want to move Twitter off the cloud then my first question (since I've not been following this at all) is does Musk know there is a land outside America? Does he have datacentres outside the United States (like the cloud vendors) or can he cover the rest of the world with global CDNs (which is not a cheap option either)?
    And if he does use datacentres abroad, will he actually pay the rent?

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jan/24/twitter-sued-by-crown-estate-alleged-unpaid-rent-london-hq
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    I’m surprised a little that the Australian media are taking quite the balanced view of things. Well, more balanced than expected anyway!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TDkb4fdFErM

    What will come of this incident, is that both teams are going to be playing to the letter of the law for the remainder of this series, and we can expect all sorts of antics that aren’t usually seen as being cricket. Will we get a few Mankad incidents at Headingly?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    Didn't take long to find the first mistake:

    Other sports have rules but cricket has laws.

    https://www.theifab.com/#!/laws

    I once heard it said of football that rules (e.g. away goals) are local and laws (e.g. offside) are universal. So there's some logic to the terminology.

    What's different about cricket is that the game is on and then off again without a clear demarcation. Michael Atherton always says you only have to be switched on for those few moments each delivery. It wasn't a lapse in concentration like a defender in football who is caught ball watching. Being able to assume that ball is no longer live is part of how the game is played. The Aussies took advantage of that. You can argue that it's fair enough, but I'm sure it's the best way to go about winning a game of cricket.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
    If Elon Musk does want to move Twitter off the cloud then my first question (since I've not been following this at all) is does Musk know there is a land outside America? Does he have datacentres outside the United States (like the cloud vendors) or can he cover the rest of the world with global CDNs (which is not a cheap option either)?
    No because if he did he wouldn't have guttered his moderation teams. Australia are looking at fining Twitter $500,000 a day and the new EU fines that appear in October for failure to moderate are oh boy levels.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
    4.30% (limited access, though, in terms of number of withdrawals a year) from Coventry BS; news just in. 4.20 from RCI Bank.

    HSBC isn't the only high street bank with crap rates if you don't have a current account.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    Who, in any case, are saving money already rather than spending it ...

    Edit: Or trying to save. Quite a high rate of withdrawals from savings accounts apparently to fund current spending, given inflation, was reported (and discussed on here) a few days back.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    edited July 2023
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    Didn't take long to find the first mistake:

    Other sports have rules but cricket has laws.

    https://www.theifab.com/#!/laws

    I once heard it said of football that rules (e.g. away goals) are local and laws (e.g. offside) are universal. So there's some logic to the terminology.

    What's different about cricket is that the game is on and then off again without a clear demarcation. Michael Atherton always says you only have to be switched on for those few moments each delivery. It wasn't a lapse in concentration like a defender in football who is caught ball watching. Being able to assume that ball is no longer live is part of how the game is played. The Aussies took advantage of that. You can argue that it's fair enough, but I'm sure it's the best way to go about winning a game of cricket.
    Did you mean the last sentence? Or should there be a not in there?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    The table in the article is fascinating. But let me make a disquieting suggestion:

    The votes that count in the sense of making a difference from last time are those of the switchers from 2019. This includes a fair number of PB contributors, including me.

    It seems to me that very few of the switchers are doing so because of policy in any significant area; and there is almost no belief that a Labour government would be able to achieve much especially in the short term.

    Nearly all the switching is about matters not in the list. Competence, honesty, moral exhaustion, decency, consistency, integrity, hope.

    In a sense the table illustrates the extent to which the UK public (and pollsters?) distrust abstract nouns and theory of any description.

    The election won't be won or lost on the issues in this list.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    algarkirk said:

    The table in the article is fascinating. But let me make a disquieting suggestion:

    The votes that count in the sense of making a difference from last time are those of the switchers from 2019. This includes a fair number of PB contributors, including me.

    It seems to me that very few of the switchers are doing so because of policy in any significant area; and there is almost no belief that a Labour government would be able to achieve much especially in the short term.

    Nearly all the switching is about matters not in the list. Competence, honesty, moral exhaustion, decency, consistency, integrity, hope.

    In a sense the table illustrates the extent to which the UK public (and pollsters?) distrust abstract nouns and theory of any description.

    The election won't be won or lost on the issues in this list.

    I don't think you're stupid, far from it, but it's the economy...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    The story I've heard is slightly different and makes slightly more sense. Musk had a long(ish) term project to move the infrastructure but it's running late. And Google had a large overdue bill where they had been clear that services would be disabled if it wasn't paid by July 1st. Google then cut a few services....
    One thing I’ve been quite a pain on, on recent projects - keeping he system infrastructure agnostic.

    It’s very easy to fall for lock in features from one vendor or another.

    I was quite proud that at one company, the system was up and running on a new cloud vendor (in test) in 2 hours.

    I personally believe that the future of cloud computing will be high mobility, with rapid scale up/down on different vendors, depending on price.

    There is also a lot to be said for going in house for the load that is always required. Ideally, your data centre should be directly competing with the cloud pricing.
    If Elon Musk does want to move Twitter off the cloud then my first question (since I've not been following this at all) is does Musk know there is a land outside America? Does he have datacentres outside the United States (like the cloud vendors) or can he cover the rest of the world with global CDNs (which is not a cheap option either)?
    No because if he did he wouldn't have guttered his moderation teams. Australia are looking at fining Twitter $500,000 a day and the new EU fines that appear in October for failure to moderate are oh boy levels.
    Internationalisation is quickly becoming a total pain in the proverbial for web-based companies, with more countries insisting on local offices and accountable executives.

    You can be in favour of freedom of speech as definied very loosely in the USA, with a handful of people policing the site, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to moderate to comply with laws elsewhere.

    I do wonder if Twitter in particular, might withdraw from certain markets, or allow themselves to be banned by authorities, rather than co-operate with governments. We’ve already seen this from many companies with regard to China, and Facebook and Google have been banning newspapers from posting articles in several jurisdictions, as a result of revenue-sharing laws.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
    Either way you are losing real value.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
    Edit: ignore, finger trouble, apols.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,975
    edited July 2023
    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    The chart is interesting. But where is the most important issue de nos jours - the imposition of unisex toilets?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    As for the alternatives: I don't trust Dorsey, and hence Bluesky.

    The CEO Dorsey hired also didn't trust Dorsey, so she insisted on a separate non-profit corporation independent of Twitter and not controlled by him. He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it as far as I can tell. Graber came from Zerocash, the other board member made Jabber, and the team seem to be the same kind of people, ie they're from the techie, non-hustler end of p2p/crypto.

    More detail here:
    https://theintercept.com/2023/06/01/bluesky-owner-twitter-elon-musk/
  • tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    Didn't take long to find the first mistake:

    Other sports have rules but cricket has laws.

    https://www.theifab.com/#!/laws

    I once heard it said of football that rules (e.g. away goals) are local and laws (e.g. offside) are universal. So there's some logic to the terminology.

    What's different about cricket is that the game is on and then off again without a clear demarcation. Michael Atherton always says you only have to be switched on for those few moments each delivery. It wasn't a lapse in concentration like a defender in football who is caught ball watching. Being able to assume that ball is no longer live is part of how the game is played. The Aussies took advantage of that. You can argue that it's fair enough, but I'm sure it's the best way to go about winning a game of cricket.
    Did you mean the last sentence? Or should there be a not in there?
    Damn.. you knoticed before I could make a bowline change joke
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. eek, Skipton's got 7.5% (only £250 per month, mind) for existing customers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498

    As for the alternatives: I don't trust Dorsey, and hence Bluesky.

    The CEO Dorsey hired also didn't trust Dorsey, so she insisted on a separate non-profit corporation independent of Twitter and not controlled by him. He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it as far as I can tell. Graber came from Zerocash, the other board member made Jabber, and the team seem to be the same kind of people, ie they're from the techie, non-hustler end of p2p/crypto.

    More detail here:
    https://theintercept.com/2023/06/01/bluesky-owner-twitter-elon-musk/
    Dorsey is a techbro. He operates, and thinks, like a techbro.

    "He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it."

    That means little - see the way Musk has operated in the past.

    And if you want the ultimate reason not to go with Bluesky - Dorsey is backing RFK Jr. Before it has even started, BlueSky has gone over to the dark side.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,975
    HYUFD said:

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
    Didn’t stop George Washington.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,975
    To our American posters.

    Happy treason day you bunch of ungrateful colonials.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Looks like Sunak needs to focus on the economy and immigration controls to get his vote out.

    Starmer needs to focus on putting more money in the NHS to get his voters out and the economy to win the swing voters
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
    Good morning

    My HSBC online bonus saver has been paying 4% for the last couple of months
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    A key problem right now is it *isn’t* being paid to savers.
    4.25% available from Yorkshire Building society

    1.35% from HSBC - guess where a lot of money is being moved to today...
    Either way you are losing real value.
    Sure. The issue is whether you believe Mr Sunak on halving inflation, in which case if you fix at 5 or 6 per cent, or whether inflation and sacings rates will still go up ...

    The other factor is that the savings allowance in income tax is 1K and this is going to catch a lot of savers out who have been enjoying tax free savings albeit at miserable rates. Also higher rate taxpaters only get 500 allowance. Add fiscal drag and the DM readership is not happy about this hit on the hard working retirees/savers etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    edited July 2023
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    Didn't take long to find the first mistake:

    Other sports have rules but cricket has laws.

    https://www.theifab.com/#!/laws

    I once heard it said of football that rules (e.g. away goals) are local and laws (e.g. offside) are universal. So there's some logic to the terminology.

    What's different about cricket is that the game is on and then off again without a clear demarcation. Michael Atherton always says you only have to be switched on for those few moments each delivery. It wasn't a lapse in concentration like a defender in football who is caught ball watching. Being able to assume that ball is no longer live is part of how the game is played. The Aussies took advantage of that. You can argue that it's fair enough, but I'm sure it's the best way to go about winning a game of cricket.
    Bairstow didn't even look behind to Carey (Unlike Balbirnie's dismissal to Foakes though)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    HYUFD said:

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
    For goodness sake, it was a joke !!!!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Sunak needs to focus on the economy and immigration controls to get his vote out.

    Starmer needs to focus on putting more money in the NHS to get his voters out and the economy to win the swing voters

    Neither of them notable successes. Indeed reminding voters of Tory economic failure and increasingly massive immigration could be quite some own goal.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited July 2023

    As for the alternatives: I don't trust Dorsey, and hence Bluesky.

    The CEO Dorsey hired also didn't trust Dorsey, so she insisted on a separate non-profit corporation independent of Twitter and not controlled by him. He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it as far as I can tell. Graber came from Zerocash, the other board member made Jabber, and the team seem to be the same kind of people, ie they're from the techie, non-hustler end of p2p/crypto.

    More detail here:
    https://theintercept.com/2023/06/01/bluesky-owner-twitter-elon-musk/
    Dorsey is a techbro. He operates, and thinks, like a techbro.

    "He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it."

    That means little - see the way Musk has operated in the past.

    And if you want the ultimate reason not to go with Bluesky - Dorsey is backing RFK Jr. Before it has even started, BlueSky has gone over to the dark side.
    You've lost me. He doesn't own or control the company. That means a lot. It means that if he wanted it to do some shitty thing involving RFK Jr or whatever, Graber and the team would tell him to piss off.

    Or is the thought, he doesn't own it now but he could buy it from the people who do? Because that applies to all companies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    One interesting fact from that excellent article is that WC Grace did exactly the same thing in 1882. His response to complaints, "I taught the lad a lesson". Which sounds right for Bairstow too.
    Didn't take long to find the first mistake:

    Other sports have rules but cricket has laws.

    https://www.theifab.com/#!/laws

    I once heard it said of football that rules (e.g. away goals) are local and laws (e.g. offside) are universal. So there's some logic to the terminology.

    What's different about cricket is that the game is on and then off again without a clear demarcation. Michael Atherton always says you only have to be switched on for those few moments each delivery. It wasn't a lapse in concentration like a defender in football who is caught ball watching. Being able to assume that ball is no longer live is part of how the game is played. The Aussies took advantage of that. You can argue that it's fair enough, but I'm sure it's the best way to go about winning a game of cricket.
    Bairstow didn't even look behind to Carey (Unlike Balbirnie's dismissal to Foakes though)
    Save us, Oh Lord, walking…

    (I think probably the only person who will get that is @el_capitano )
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
    Didn’t stop George Washington.
    That was a declaration of independence and last time I checked Australia was already an independent nation not still a British colony
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Most doctors think ministers want to destroy NHS, BMA boss says
    Philip Banfield says health service is in state of ‘managed decline’ and may not survive next ‘five or 10 years’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/04/most-doctors-think-ministers-want-to-destroy-nhs-bma-boss-says

    Note the government response (the usual boilerplate) doesn't address most of his critiques at all.

    The Economy and Healthcare are the two most important issues to both sets of voters.

    Of course, 'The Economy,' is also a bit vague. A friend of mine's son has just secured a 5 yr fixed rate having been on a 2 yr that expired.

    The result? He now has to pay double the amount each month on his mortgage: literally up from £700 to £1400 pcm.

    The Conservatives are beating windward with the mainsail ripped to shreds, a faulty rudder, and a holed hull.
    So that is £700 a month of spending which is now lost to the economy. Instead of having a disposable income to spend on products and services, the money gets burned on the inflation fire. Which means less money circulating, more jobs go, more companies go, we spiral downwards into a bigger economic pit.

    This is the Tory tax. They have broken the economy and people are having to pay ever larger penalties.
    That £700 is not lost to the economy. It is propping up company profits and being (finally) paid to savers.

    Arguably not particularly useful redistribution, but not lost.
    edit wrong context,

    And sorry but it's £700 lost to local shops / businesses as the son will be cutting all expenditure to the bone... Multiple that a few times and the local shops will be closing down...
    Exactly. Our economy depends on the circulation of money. The velocity of that circulation. Cash paid in wages being spent on things which pays other wages. Capitalism.

    These company profits that @Foxy mentions - unless it is cash spent on things in the UK, it *is* lost. An awful lot of money is being and has for a while been hoovered up by these big businesses and disappearing elsewhere. These aren't British investors benefitting, getting lots of cash to invest in UK business and lots of UK dividends. Its being taken by spivs. Which is how we end up with the likes of Thames Water, who massively overcharge consumers, massively under-invest and somehow manage to massively load the company up with dept.

    All our money, taken by these spivs. Not circulating. Not providing jobs. The Tory problem is that they are a party owned by spivs, in thrall to these grifters, handing our money over to their mates increasingly in exchange for nothing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Sunak needs to focus on the economy and immigration controls to get his vote out.

    Starmer needs to focus on putting more money in the NHS to get his voters out and the economy to win the swing voters

    Neither of them notable successes. Indeed reminding voters of Tory economic failure and increasingly massive immigration could be quite some own goal.
    If he cuts inflation and immigration and the boats by next Spring however Tory poll ratings will rise too
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    edited July 2023

    PBers, please note close-to-final comment on previous thread by Peck, new poster but long lurker.

    Thanks for the reference. I hope Peck carries on commenting. His post is interesting, novel and testable by the effluxion of time. There are at least 47 different ways of opposing the suggestion and the photo looks like the PM has wandered into a BNP rally and is hoping to escape without being noticed. In every respect a perfect contribution. Welcome.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    I suspect we are going to see a fair bit about fuel prices again today

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    1h
    Fuel retailers swallowed up the Govt’s 5p cut in fuel duty -intended to help people with cost of living - for their profit margins

    Harriet Baldwin, head of Treasury select: ‘That whole £2.4bn cost to the Exchequer has gone straight to the bottom line of the retailers’
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not a fan of Meta, but this will be interesting.

    Meta's Twitter alternative, Threads, will be released on Thursday in the United States and on Friday for the rest of the world.
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1676017094893383680

    (Snip)

    There was a rumour that Twitter were changing their infrastructure (away from AWS and Google Cloud, towards their own, to reduce ruinous hosting costs), this week is when the changeover happened, and their infrastructure people need time to fix scaling issues at data centres.
    I've been talking to a couple of friends about this, and that'll be an insane amount of work. It's simple in theory - if it's set up right, just change a few config files (*), but with the number of users, the throughput and everything else, stuff will break in very interesting ways - not good on a live service.

    And I bet Twitter have got rid of the very people who know the system well enough to do this work - you know, the 'useless' ones (defined as 'useless' because they don't like Musk...).

    Given their newly-found reputation for not paying bills, who would work with Twitter?

    (*) Ha ha ha
    Yes, it’s the sort of thing that should have been done years ago, but it’s always easier to keep scaling what you have already, until one day it isn’t. The rumour was that the AWS bill was close to $1bn, as video content became more popular on the site, and the company was basically bankrupt a year ago when the new management came in....
    That doesn't pass the smell test.
    Musk's takeover has added a billion a year in debt interest expenses.

    Before the takeover, costs were rising higher than income, and net income was only positive because of disposals.

    https://investor.twitterinc.com/files/doc_financials/2022/q1/Final-Q1’22-earnings-release.pdf

    Yes, the price paid and the debt incurred make the job a lot harder, hence the number of redundancies, the chasing of subscription revenue, and the new CEO with an advertising background.

    It wouldn’t be a surprise to see a new funding round at some point, in order to reduce the indebtedness of the company. EM has already said there’s a limit to how many Tesla shares he can dispose of, so perhaps the long-rumoured Starlink floatation happens and that gives him some more money to fund Twitter.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Sunak needs to focus on the economy and immigration controls to get his vote out.

    Starmer needs to focus on putting more money in the NHS to get his voters out and the economy to win the swing voters

    Neither of them notable successes. Indeed reminding voters of Tory economic failure and increasingly massive immigration could be quite some own goal.
    If he cuts inflation and immigration and the boats by next Spring however Tory poll ratings will rise too
    And how will he do that? Setting aside that the pledges were *this year* and not next year, every one of those pledges is sliding in the wrong direction.

    If you want to see good performance in the economy you have to manage it competently. If you want to action a reduction in migration you have to understand that international co-operation is key and manage it competently and legally.

    The key word here is competent. Which is why so many of your voters are now former voters and you are left chasing the vote of golliwog fans.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Sunak needs to focus on the economy and immigration controls to get his vote out.

    Starmer needs to focus on putting more money in the NHS to get his voters out and the economy to win the swing voters

    HTAF will Rishi do anything to fix the economy - if you have a mortgage at some point your expenditure is going to go through the floor as you try and pay the mortgage and if you are own the property the longer term issue is prices are going to fall as people can only afford to borrow less than they previously did.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    algarkirk said:

    PBers, please note close-to-final comment on previous thread by Peck, new poster but long lurker.

    Thanks for the reference. I hope Peck carries on commenting. His post is interesting, novel and testable by the effluxion of time. There are at least 47 different ways of opposing the suggestion and the photo looks like the PM has wandered into a BNP rally and is hoping to escape without being noticed. In every respect a perfect contribution. Welcome.
    One suggestion: does it really matter to the Tories whether a Scottish constituency is a SNP or Labour seat? The latter is if anything more likely to cooperate with the Tory Party as shown very well by recent history and various deals at local government level.

    Edit: so removing Scotland means a permanent addition to the Tory numbers, either way.
  • HYUFD said:

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
    The Australians' actions were the type of thing Boris Johnson would have done. Enough said.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498

    As for the alternatives: I don't trust Dorsey, and hence Bluesky.

    The CEO Dorsey hired also didn't trust Dorsey, so she insisted on a separate non-profit corporation independent of Twitter and not controlled by him. He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it as far as I can tell. Graber came from Zerocash, the other board member made Jabber, and the team seem to be the same kind of people, ie they're from the techie, non-hustler end of p2p/crypto.

    More detail here:
    https://theintercept.com/2023/06/01/bluesky-owner-twitter-elon-musk/
    Dorsey is a techbro. He operates, and thinks, like a techbro.

    "He still has a seat on the board, but beyond that no power over it."

    That means little - see the way Musk has operated in the past.

    And if you want the ultimate reason not to go with Bluesky - Dorsey is backing RFK Jr. Before it has even started, BlueSky has gone over to the dark side.
    You've lost me. He doesn't own or control the company. That means a lot. It means that if he wanted it to do some shitty thing involving RFK Jr or whatever, Graber and the team would tell him to piss off.

    Or is the thought, he doesn't own it now but he could buy it from the people who do? Because that applies to all companies.
    He's on the board, and the ownership situation, as explained, is rather opaque - and does not, as far as I can see, stop Dorsey having a big share?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    Lets repost it here from @Peck
    Peck said:

    Long-time lurker here. I was wondering today how English Tories might attempt to facilitate their preferred option out of the top two available in Scotland, which is to say an SNP bounce rather than a Labour landslide. And then I saw this photo... Never saw the Union Jack wrapped like that before. Must have taken some effort to make it look like the flag of St George with a little bit of decoration around the edge. Then another option for English Tories popped into mind: let Scotland go hang, and either push for English independence or else take such a big dump on Scotland that support for independence there rises to over 50% AND manifests as such in BritGE2024 somehow - meaning not necessarily with an SNP bounce but more likely with growing support among ScotLab voters and members. Just leak a phone call where Sunak makes a kilt or sporran joke or summat. Then bring in Penny and maybe someone who's posh and doesn't sound like JRM and they can say together that yes they bloody well are English and do think that England has its own interests... Aka selling Scotland down the river... And the Tories would never do that. Right?

    image

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718

    HYUFD said:

    I see the Aussie PM has issued a declaration of war against the UK.

    I hope the Trident subs are on their way to Australia.


    No he said Australia won the last test against England fair and square, he is hardly going to declare war v a nation which even has the same King and head of state as his does
    For goodness sake, it was a joke !!!!
    And an argument over cricket lasts longer than a war! I think the bodyline controversy still rumbles in odd corners!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    edited July 2023
    eek said:

    I suspect we are going to see a fair bit about fuel prices again today

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    1h
    Fuel retailers swallowed up the Govt’s 5p cut in fuel duty -intended to help people with cost of living - for their profit margins

    Harriet Baldwin, head of Treasury select: ‘That whole £2.4bn cost to the Exchequer has gone straight to the bottom line of the retailers’

    People old enough to remember when the Tory party actually stood for a few basic philosophical principles might wonder about this.

    What is happening is that in a tightly contested free market for fuel the supermarket entrants, and the cheapest, are being told by Conservatives that their prices should be regulated because of the opinion that they are charging Xp a litre more than they should, and that there is something wicked and wrong about making profits - the amount of which should be for the state to decide.

    No-one seems to regard this as weird. The BBC headlines it. The Overton window is all over the place.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    algarkirk said:

    PBers, please note close-to-final comment on previous thread by Peck, new poster but long lurker.

    Thanks for the reference. I hope Peck carries on commenting. His post is interesting, novel and testable by the effluxion of time. There are at least 47 different ways of opposing the suggestion and the photo looks like the PM has wandered into a BNP rally and is hoping to escape without being noticed. In every respect a perfect contribution. Welcome.
    And in fairness to Mr Sunak and the Tories, Labour are also upping the UF count of late. 4 in this pic of SKS 2 years back [edit].

    https://labourheartlands.com/sir-keir-starmer-to-make-a-two-flag-annocement-telling-britain-it-has-a-choice-good-government-under-labour-or-failed-ideology-under-the-tories/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    edited July 2023

    Mr. eek, Skipton's got 7.5% (only £250 per month, mind) for existing customers.

    First Direct £300/Mth ; Natwest £150/Mth both at 6 or 7ish%

    If you've got enough funds you could set up regular savers with various different banks, and as they cycle to maturity reuse the funds. I've got a First Direct (From whom I have borrowed money at lower rates) one and a Natwest one both on the go. The First Direct one will mature in 5 months, at which point I'll probably set it up for another go round the saving merry go round.

    Of course savers are not winning from the situation. If you can keep your shirt with a mortgage it is reducing in real terms whilst interest rates are below inflation; although it won't feel like it as monthly repayments are going up. Lowering inflation will help everyone.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited July 2023
    Report on Sky that interest rates are to rise to 6% adding more to mortgage holders misery and the rates are likely to remain high for a considerable period of time

    This crisis is looking very like 1991 to 2021 where negative equity prevailed, increased repossessions, and falling house prices

    This is a deadly cocktail for the conservatives but in a wider context not good for any government but at least Starmer should receive a honeymoon period for a whiie
This discussion has been closed.