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Punters think Rishi is going to be disappointed – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,916
edited May 2023 in General
imagePunters think Rishi is going to be disappointed – politicalbetting.com

The great challenge facing Sunak at the general election is that unlike Labour he’s needs to ensure that his party secures a clear majority to be certain of staying in the job.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 193
    If I only had the support of the Express I'd be very worried.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,474
    Must be a slow news day to feature a headline from the Express.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,635

    Must be a slow news day to feature a headline from the Express.

    It does seem to be. The BBC just has boring stuff - local elections etc.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Good morning

    I agree and to be fair he is the best conservatives have at present

    He seems to be plotting his own course with his desire to repair relationships with the EU (there is less than a cigarette paper between his attitude to the EU and Starmer's), recognises the importance of immigration, and with Hunt has steadied the economy which Labour should be pleased about

    However, the conservative party is riven with discord amongst itself and opposition beckons which is needed

    It is interesting that Starmer is struggling to convince voters with just 30% (not the wrongly reported 40%) thinking he is best as PM with 42% do not know
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760
    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    Now that stunt would have killed anyone else's ambitions, but it helped send Johnson's likeability factor into the stratosphere. Is Sunak that lucky?

    Interesting podcast on Global player with Guto Harri suggesting we are foolish to write-off Johnson.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,159

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Good morning

    I agree and to be fair he is the best conservatives have at present

    He seems to be plotting his own course with his desire to repair relationships with the EU (there is less than a cigarette paper between his attitude to the EU and Starmer's), recognises the importance of immigration, and with Hunt has steadied the economy which Labour should be pleased about

    However, the conservative party is riven with discord amongst itself and opposition beckons which is needed

    It is interesting that Starmer is struggling to convince voters with just 30% (not the wrongly reported 40%) thinking he is best as PM with 42% do not know
    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,635

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    I'm trying to decide whether that is an extra-large umbrella, or whether it just looks large in the context.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    When I hear of umbrellas and PMs I always get strong vibes of Neville Chamberlain.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,871
    edited May 2023
    On a similar note I see Simon Jenkins in the Grauniad today is putting out the annual "Loyalty no longer the Tories´secret weapon" piece. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/19/loyalty-tories-rishi-sunak-rebels-conservative-election.

    But why should the Tories even survive?

    Watching the far right Tories this week drinking the American funded Kool-Aid of culture wars and a fanatical and irrational aversion to political consensus of any kind made me think that that the Tories have simply lost it.

    A fanatic is one who won´t change their mind and won´t change the subject, and on so many subjects these pub bores have become increasingly sinister.

    Watching Rees Mogg do his schtick on KGB news is like watching a grandmother putting a baseball cap on backwards to get down with the kids to extol the virtues of the Mangle.

    The targets the Tories choose are irrelevant to 95% of the voters. Yet things that really do matter, like the quality of administration, delivery of services, and efficiency are not even in the top ten most interesting things to these people. It is so much easier to stir the woke warrior pot about Trans rights than lead a public discussion of the need to change transport.

    Yet these people are in government. They have no excuse. To coin a phrase, they should go back to their constituencies and prepare for a defeat on a scale not seen by a ruling party in over a century.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,666
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
    Harsh on Rishi- the only way he was culpable for the Trusstershambles was by failing to beat her in the first leadership election of 2022.

    Set against that, even diminished Major was a better retail politician than Sunak has been so far. Take the freaky way that Sunak struggles to persuade some Brexit backers that he's one of them, when he's the only PM we've had who supported the idea before it was cool.

    Not that it matters. There are enough people who just want the Conservatives, all of them, gone. Nothing personal.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    The irony there of course is if Johnson replaced Sunak he would, on anecdotal evidence alone from the RedWall, probably win again.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He didn’t resign as Chancellor because he disagreed with Boris Johnson’s economic policies.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760

    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/

    There does seem to a a head of steam building up behind Johnson both in the media and amongst the swivel eyed.

    Or am I mistaking wind and follow through for a head of steam?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,666
    ydoethur said:

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    When I hear of umbrellas and PMs I always get strong vibes of Neville Chamberlain.
    Did they recycle this umbrella?



    (Don't see them putting Rishi on a bicycle, though.)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
    Harsh on Rishi- the only way he was culpable for the Trusstershambles was by failing to beat her in the first leadership election of 2022.

    Set against that, even diminished Major was a better retail politician than Sunak has been so far. Take the freaky way that Sunak struggles to persuade some Brexit backers that he's one of them, when he's the only PM we've had who supported the idea before it was cool.

    Not that it matters. There are enough people who just want the Conservatives, all of them, gone. Nothing personal.
    The Truss episode is not harsh on Rishi, it is harsh on the Conservative party membership who are delusional and have lost the plot. Rishi pretty much told them how that would go and it did. But the damage to the brand is done.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,645
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
    Fortunately, the Truss Prime Ministership was over briefly.

    Black Wednesday (which actually was a very good thing for the UK economy) would have been forgiven, were it not for the house price crash, unemployment, and widespread repossessions. Objectively, the economy performed really well after 1993, but few people felt as if it was performing well.

    I very much doubt that he can win in 2024 (and I don't think it would suit anyone if he did, least of all the Conservaitve Party). But, he can leave the party in much better shape than in 1997.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,666

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He didn’t resign as Chancellor because he disagreed with Boris Johnson’s economic policies.
    Erm... Wasn't disagreement over the economy the official reason? There was nothing in his letter about Pincher the Pincher.

    I firmly believe the public are ready to hear that truth. Our people know that if something is too good to be true then it's not true. They need to know that whilst there is a path to a better future, it is not an easy one. In preparation for our proposed joint speech on the economy next week, it has become clear to me that our approaches are fundamentally too different.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62058236.amp

    The strangeness of his resignation kind of got lost in the escalating strangeness of that week.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
    Harsh on Rishi- the only way he was culpable for the Trusstershambles was by failing to beat her in the first leadership election of 2022.

    Set against that, even diminished Major was a better retail politician than Sunak has been so far. Take the freaky way that Sunak struggles to persuade some Brexit backers that he's one of them, when he's the only PM we've had who supported the idea before it was cool.

    Not that it matters. There are enough people who just want the Conservatives, all of them, gone. Nothing personal.
    The Truss episode is not harsh on Rishi, it is harsh on the Conservative party membership who are delusional and have lost the plot. Rishi pretty much told them how that would go and it did. But the damage to the brand is done.
    Rishi is rubbish.

    He’d be a nondescript junior minister if it wasn’t for him agreeing to wear the political gimp suit that Cummings and Johnson asked him to wear that Saj refused to do so.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Cicero said:

    On a similar note I see Simon Jenkins in the Grauniad today is putting out the annual "Loyalty no longer the Tories´secret weapon" piece. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/19/loyalty-tories-rishi-sunak-rebels-conservative-election.

    But why should the Tories even survive?

    Watching the far right Tories this week drinking the American funded Kool-Aid of culture wars and a fanatical and irrational aversion to political consensus of any kind made me think that that the Tories have simply lost it.

    A fanatic is one who won´t change their mind and won´t change the subject, and on so many subjects these pub bores have become increasingly sinister.

    Watching Rees Mogg do his schtick on KGB news is like watching a grandmother putting a baseball cap on backwards to get down with the kids to extol the virtues of the Mangle.

    The targets the Tories choose are irrelevant to 95% of the voters. Yet things that really do matter, like the quality of administration, delivery of services, and efficiency are not even in the top ten most interesting things to these people. It is so much easier to stir the woke warrior pot about Trans rights than lead a public discussion of the need to change transport.

    Yet these people are in government. They have no excuse. To coin a phrase, they should go back to their constituencies and prepare for a defeat on a scale not seen by a ruling party in over a century.

    Brown lost 91 seats in 2010. I think it will be touch and go whether the Tories do worse than that.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He didn’t resign as Chancellor because he disagreed with Boris Johnson’s economic policies.
    Erm... Wasn't disagreement over the economy the official reason? There was nothing in his letter about Pincher the Pincher.

    I firmly believe the public are ready to hear that truth. Our people know that if something is too good to be true then it's not true. They need to know that whilst there is a path to a better future, it is not an easy one. In preparation for our proposed joint speech on the economy next week, it has become clear to me that our approaches are fundamentally too different.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62058236.amp

    The strangeness of his resignation kind of got lost in the escalating strangeness of that week.
    Nah the standards bit of the letter is about Pincher.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Major never recovered from black Wednesday. Sunak cannot recover from the Truss episode which legend has it cost the UK billions that could have been spent on the precious NHS. In reality his party cannot recover from the fact that a majority of the membership thought Truss was a good idea.

    What both have in common is that they show both a lack of competence and a somewhat tenuous grip on reality, insufficient for a party to be in power. Once that perception is lost there is no way back, at least until the other side have done even worse.
    Harsh on Rishi- the only way he was culpable for the Trusstershambles was by failing to beat her in the first leadership election of 2022.

    Set against that, even diminished Major was a better retail politician than Sunak has been so far. Take the freaky way that Sunak struggles to persuade some Brexit backers that he's one of them, when he's the only PM we've had who supported the idea before it was cool.

    Not that it matters. There are enough people who just want the Conservatives, all of them, gone. Nothing personal.
    The Truss episode is not harsh on Rishi, it is harsh on the Conservative party membership who are delusional and have lost the plot. Rishi pretty much told them how that would go and it did. But the damage to the brand is done.
    Rishi is rubbish.

    He’d be a nondescript junior minister if it wasn’t for him agreeing to wear the political gimp suit that Cummings and Johnson asked him to wear that Saj refused to do so.
    If the Tories wanted someone who actually stood up to Johnson, Saj was a far better choice. Sunak owes his career to Johnson’s patronage. Let us not forget ….

    https://twitter.com/RobertJenrick/status/1136153207766433793?s=20
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,405

    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/

    There does seem to a a head of steam building up behind Johnson both in the media and amongst the swivel eyed.

    Or am I mistaking wind and follow through for a head of steam?
    I don’t see a head of steam. The man is finished.

    Put him back as leader and watch what happens. He is hated, across the spectrum.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,871
    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    On a similar note I see Simon Jenkins in the Grauniad today is putting out the annual "Loyalty no longer the Tories´secret weapon" piece. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/19/loyalty-tories-rishi-sunak-rebels-conservative-election.

    But why should the Tories even survive?

    Watching the far right Tories this week drinking the American funded Kool-Aid of culture wars and a fanatical and irrational aversion to political consensus of any kind made me think that that the Tories have simply lost it.

    A fanatic is one who won´t change their mind and won´t change the subject, and on so many subjects these pub bores have become increasingly sinister.

    Watching Rees Mogg do his schtick on KGB news is like watching a grandmother putting a baseball cap on backwards to get down with the kids to extol the virtues of the Mangle.

    The targets the Tories choose are irrelevant to 95% of the voters. Yet things that really do matter, like the quality of administration, delivery of services, and efficiency are not even in the top ten most interesting things to these people. It is so much easier to stir the woke warrior pot about Trans rights than lead a public discussion of the need to change transport.

    Yet these people are in government. They have no excuse. To coin a phrase, they should go back to their constituencies and prepare for a defeat on a scale not seen by a ruling party in over a century.

    Brown lost 91 seats in 2010. I think it will be touch and go whether the Tories do worse than that.
    I am not so sure, I feel like there is a latent heat in the anger building against the Tories and by this time next year they will be polling even lower than today, especially if the Lib Dems continue their steady recovery.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760
    edited May 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    When I hear of umbrellas and PMs I always get strong vibes of Neville Chamberlain.
    Did they recycle this umbrella?



    (Don't see them putting Rishi on a bicycle, though.)
    Probably a different item from the same batch received as NHS PPE during 2020. At least someone has now found a use for these faulty "masks".
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,556
    TimS said:

    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/

    There does seem to a a head of steam building up behind Johnson both in the media and amongst the swivel eyed.

    Or am I mistaking wind and follow through for a head of steam?
    I don’t see a head of steam. The man is finished.

    Put him back as leader and watch what happens. He is hated, across the spectrum.
    I agree. I cannot see any momentum for him and his problem is not so much the barking FBPE remain tendency that have hated him since Brexit, but others across the spectrum who have deserted him.

    He has no natural constituency now.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/

    There does seem to a a head of steam building up behind Johnson both in the media and amongst the swivel eyed.

    Or am I mistaking wind and follow through for a head of steam?
    I don’t see a head of steam. The man is finished.

    Put him back as leader and watch what happens. He is hated, across the spectrum.
    Some really love Boris and to this day believe his departure was unjust. He nearly won the leadership last year, If he wants it, he could get it. All it takes is a few bad weeks this summer for Sunak.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    When a party so richly deserves to be turfed out if power, the character of the PM is something of an irrelevance.

    But like Major, history will look more kindly on him than his immediate predecessor(s).
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,556
    So all of those people who were pushed into degrees by New Labour initially, who determined the jobs of the future will need degress, and carried on by subsequent govts. The striking doctors and uni lecturers and other middle class, white collar jobs, @Leon is right about this. AI is going to hit many white collar, middle management jobs like a steam train.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/artificial-intelligence-to-hit-workplace-like-a-freight-train-energy-boss-warns/ar-AA1bmSp1?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=8db4a9a1be1c4f36bed676afa027b59e&ei=25
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,556

    ydoethur said:

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    When I hear of umbrellas and PMs I always get strong vibes of Neville Chamberlain.
    Did they recycle this umbrella?



    (Don't see them putting Rishi on a bicycle, though.)
    I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @SkyNews

    PM Rishi Sunak says 'stopping the boats' is the country's priority, but refused to commit to reducing overall net migration below the 504,000 figure of June 2022, saying: "What I can commit is that we want to bring those levels down."

    #Rigby trib.al/eBCDLk5
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    Now that stunt would have killed anyone else's ambitions, but it helped send Johnson's likeability factor into the stratosphere. Is Sunak that lucky?

    Interesting podcast on Global player with Guto Harri suggesting we are foolish to write-off Johnson.
    Harri is as risible as the man he spun for.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    edited May 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    When a party so richly deserves to be turfed out if power, the character of the PM is something of an irrelevance.

    But like Major, history will look more kindly on him than his immediate predecessor(s).
    Does history look more kindly on Major than Thatcher?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    Another reason why WFH is awesome.

    WFH is closing door on rocketing property prices, economist says

    The era of massive house price rises is coming to an end because of the increase in working from home, rising interest rates and slower population growth, a senior economist at the government’s spending watchdog has said.

    David Miles, an economist at the Office for Budget Responsibility, said growth in house prices in the coming decades would be “much weaker” than it has been for the past 40 years.

    He said the rise in people working from home since the Covid pandemic had given people more choice about where they could live.

    “Those forces driving [house prices] up are going to be much weaker, I suspect, in the next 40 years than they have been in the past 40 years,” he told a conference held by the Economic Statistics Centre of Excellence in London. “If anything, this unusual age of massive rises of house prices may be nearing an end.”

    He said that house prices had risen particularly quickly in the UK compared with other countries because of constraints on house building.

    A poll on Thursday revealed that Britain is facing a generational divide over the green belt as a majority of young people favour relaxing restrictions to allow more development.

    The Fabian Society and YouGov found 63 per cent of under-25s support building more affordable housing on the green belt, compared with 31 per cent of over-65s


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wfh-is-closing-door-on-rocketing-property-prices-economist-says-87fxlv2g7
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,405
    Jonathan said:

    TimS said:

    Rishi should have said ‘we fight on, we fight to win.’

    Sunak’s betrayal of the North will not be forgotten.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-derails-boris-johnson-great-british-railways-pl/

    There does seem to a a head of steam building up behind Johnson both in the media and amongst the swivel eyed.

    Or am I mistaking wind and follow through for a head of steam?
    I don’t see a head of steam. The man is finished.

    Put him back as leader and watch what happens. He is hated, across the spectrum.
    Some really love Boris and to this day believe his departure was unjust. He nearly won the leadership last year, If he wants it, he could get it. All it takes is a few bad weeks this summer for Sunak.
    I think some 80 year old Tory members love Boris, but the country not so much. He was found out, and I don’t think most voters could trust him again.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    Cicero said:

    On a similar note I see Simon Jenkins in the Grauniad today is putting out the annual "Loyalty no longer the Tories´secret weapon" piece. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/19/loyalty-tories-rishi-sunak-rebels-conservative-election.

    But why should the Tories even survive?

    Watching the far right Tories this week drinking the American funded Kool-Aid of culture wars and a fanatical and irrational aversion to political consensus of any kind made me think that that the Tories have simply lost it.

    A fanatic is one who won´t change their mind and won´t change the subject, and on so many subjects these pub bores have become increasingly sinister.

    Watching Rees Mogg do his schtick on KGB news is like watching a grandmother putting a baseball cap on backwards to get down with the kids to extol the virtues of the Mangle...

    TBF, they've done a bang up job of seriously mangling government.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    .
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    When a party so richly deserves to be turfed out if power, the character of the PM is something of an irrelevance.

    But like Major, history will look more kindly on him than his immediate predecessor(s).
    Does history look more kindly on Major than Thatcher?
    My version of it does. 😊
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    I regret to inform you that a friend has said the same.

    Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny review — even Fleabag can’t rescue him this time

    The good news is that it’s not as poor as Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The bad news is that it’s not much better.

    A meandering, frequently enervating yawn, this fifth and most expensive Indy outing yet (about $300 million) is a curious demonstration of how a Hollywood studio can fire nearly a third of a billion bucks at late 20th century nostalgia and get it so wrong.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-even-fleabag-cant-rescue-him-this-time-xrlxsz5sg
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,400
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
    Harsh to describe him as “partying in lockdown”. I genuinely believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Boris and many others were happily “partying in lockdown” to be clear
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,129

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He didn’t resign as Chancellor because he disagreed with Boris Johnson’s economic policies.
    Erm... Wasn't disagreement over the economy the official reason? There was nothing in his letter about Pincher the Pincher.

    I firmly believe the public are ready to hear that truth. Our people know that if something is too good to be true then it's not true. They need to know that whilst there is a path to a better future, it is not an easy one. In preparation for our proposed joint speech on the economy next week, it has become clear to me that our approaches are fundamentally too different.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62058236.amp

    The strangeness of his resignation kind of got lost in the escalating strangeness of that week.
    Nah the standards bit of the letter is about Pincher.
    The 'standards' bit of that letter consists of the use of the word 'standards' and no more. You can say it alludes to Pincher, but it is seriously oblique:

    "However, the public rightly expect government to be conducted properly, competently and seriously. I recognise this may be my last ministerial job, but I believe these standards are worth fighting for and that is why I am resigning."
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Maybe but personally I think HMG should go on a diet, kick 500k public funded workers back in to the real economy and thereby cut spending and increase private sector output.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    A Scottish council is braced for legal action after it published the salaries of its entire staff on the internet.

    South Lanarkshire council accidentally released the personal details of nearly 15,000 workers in the latest in a dramatic series of data breaches in Scottish local government.

    Officials said that they spotted the mistake quickly and that they do not believe any of their employees will come to any harm.

    Unions, however, said that distressed staff were considering legal action. The local authority has reported itself to the Information Commissioner’s Office.

    The council confirmed that a spreadsheet containing the personal information of employees had been uploaded to a website called Whatdotheyknow, which is designed to help users compile freedom of information requests.

    Officials, citing human error, said that the document had been published by mistake in response to a request made through the site. They believe the document was removed before anyone was able to capture the information it contained.

    A spokesman said: “A spreadsheet containing anonymised employee data was uploaded to a website in response to a freedom of information request.

    “Unfortunately, as a result of human error, the spreadsheet contained a second page of personal data that had not been anonymised.

    “The error was noticed by the council and we arranged for that data to be removed.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/council-admits-error-as-details-of-15-000-employees-published-online-fwg6r69bg
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,756
    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    When a party so richly deserves to be turfed out if power, the character of the PM is something of an irrelevance.

    But like Major, history will look more kindly on him than his immediate predecessor(s).
    Does history look more kindly on Major than Thatcher?
    My version of it does. 😊
    Edwina? :wink:
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    Talking about governments who deserve to get gubbed at the next election.

    A&E chaos in Edinburgh forced NHS inspectors to muck in

    Help needed ‘to stop patients falling off trolleys’


    Inspectors monitoring a chaotic A&E department were forced to step in to help patients, a damning report has found.

    During two reviews of Edinburgh Royal Infirmary patients “repeatedly sought assistance from inspectors for help to access toilet facilities and pain relief”, a report revealed.

    The inspectors said that on a number of occasions they had to intervene to find help for patients.

    “During both inspection visits inspectors were required to request assistance from staff to prevent patients falling out of trolleys,” the NHS watchdog Healthcare Improvement Scotland found.

    It added: “In the return inspection, an incident occurred where an inspector was required to intervene and get assistance for a patient at risk of falling off a trolley as they tried to push themselves over the trolley side rails to get to the toilet. During this incident the inspector had to shout loudly twice to get the attention of staff who then came to help.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-e-chaos-in-edinburgh-forced-nhs-inspectors-to-muck-in-bf9mmr5qs
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    DavidL said:

    That's what take back control actually means.

    Aw, bless...

    You still think these numpties are in control of anything
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    When a party so richly deserves to be turfed out if power, the character of the PM is something of an irrelevance.

    But like Major, history will look more kindly on him than his immediate predecessor(s).
    Does history look more kindly on Major than Thatcher?
    My version of it does. 😊
    Edwina? :wink:
    I am judging his premiership, not his taste.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,129
    To complete the symbolism of that umbrella, there really should be yellow stars on the outer blue surface,
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    Cracking timing for the official announcement of his presidential run.

    Disney cancels plans for $1bn campus in Florida amid battle with DeSantis
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/may/18/disney-cancels-1bn-florida-campus-2000-jobs

    Hopefully he becomes a more malign version of Jeb Bush.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
    Harsh to describe him as “partying in lockdown”. I genuinely believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Boris and many others were happily “partying in lockdown” to be clear
    Wrong Place? Boris Johnson’s Downing Street
    Wrong time? Anytime.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Nigelb said:

    Cracking timing for the official announcement of his presidential run.

    Disney cancels plans for $1bn campus in Florida amid battle with DeSantis
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/may/18/disney-cancels-1bn-florida-campus-2000-jobs

    Hopefully he becomes a more malign version of Jeb Bush.

    You don't mess with the Mouse.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,903
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
    The only way we might ever look on this period as the good old days is if there is a black swan catastrophe such as nuclear war or the fall of democracy.

    This period will be set alongside the 30s and the 70s as pretty awful politically and economically.

    Things will only get better under Labour! ;-)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
    Harsh to describe him as “partying in lockdown”. I genuinely believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Boris and many others were happily “partying in lockdown” to be clear
    Wrong Place? Boris Johnson’s Downing Street
    Wrong time? Anytime.

    Is this a Campari advert?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
    The only way we might ever look on this period as the good old days is if there is a black swan catastrophe such as nuclear war or the fall of democracy.

    This period will be set alongside the 30s and the 70s as pretty awful politically and economically.

    Things will only get better under Labour! ;-)
    Its the hope that kills you.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,645
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cracking timing for the official announcement of his presidential run.

    Disney cancels plans for $1bn campus in Florida amid battle with DeSantis
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/may/18/disney-cancels-1bn-florida-campus-2000-jobs

    Hopefully he becomes a more malign version of Jeb Bush.

    You don't mess with the Mouse.
    De Santis v Disney is very much Alien v Predator. You want both to lose.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    edited May 2023
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
    If Starmer gets elected it will simply be more of the same. He wont do anything radical because thats not in his nature and as a lawyer he will go to his comfort zone and see governance as just passing lots more laws.

    So we'll still get crap economic performance but with more bureaucracy from laws to keep his activists happy ( and those of the LDs if its a coalition ).
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025

    ydoethur said:

    Carrying an umbrella like that highlights Rishi the Patriot.

    Mind you I was concerned the wind didn't catch the umbrella and send him skywards, Mary Poppins style.

    Shades of Johnson dangling in the air waving Union Jack flags !!!!
    When I hear of umbrellas and PMs I always get strong vibes of Neville Chamberlain.
    Did they recycle this umbrella?



    (Don't see them putting Rishi on a bicycle, though.)
    Not without stabilisers anyway.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @SkyNews
    'How do you feel when you lose?' - Sky's @BethRigby

    The Conservatives recently lost out in local elections and Beth Rigby asks PM Rishi Sunak how it feels to be "one of life's winners" but to lose.

    trib.al/eBCDLk5

    @IanDunt
    It's kind of incredible how badly he handles this. It's not even that hard to answer. 'I hate losing because it means it's harder to help people with our great plan to... etc etc'. But instead the machine splutters, reboots and then churns out the same old deadening guff.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,645

    I regret to inform you that a friend has said the same.

    Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny review — even Fleabag can’t rescue him this time

    The good news is that it’s not as poor as Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The bad news is that it’s not much better.

    A meandering, frequently enervating yawn, this fifth and most expensive Indy outing yet (about $300 million) is a curious demonstration of how a Hollywood studio can fire nearly a third of a billion bucks at late 20th century nostalgia and get it so wrong.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-even-fleabag-cant-rescue-him-this-time-xrlxsz5sg

    Sounds dismal.

    You can find really good examples of fanfiction, for almost any popular work, yet people who are paid professionals so often create crap.

    One film which greatly impressed me, and which I’m keenly awaiting Part Two, is Dune.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    Picard s3 is nostalgia done right.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
    The only way we might ever look on this period as the good old days is if there is a black swan catastrophe such as nuclear war or the fall of democracy.

    This period will be set alongside the 30s and the 70s as pretty awful politically and economically.

    Things will only get better under Labour! ;-)
    Its the hope that kills you.
    Whoever wins the next election is likely to get a decent run, whatever their policies.
    It's reasonably likely the war in Ukraine will be over; energy prices will continue to fall; relations with the EU ought to improve.

    The Tories will spend the next decade telling us that they set the conditions for recovery...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,903
    edited May 2023
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Genuine question: in what sense do you think we are adapting away from 'a low wage, low skill* economy'?

    Are we going to do away with, say, care workers, building labourers, fruit pickers, hospitality staff, farm workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, etc., etc.

    (*Low wage ≠ low skill btw. Some of those jobs I have listed require quite a lot of skill, just not the sort of skill valued by society.)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    With thrusting rhetoric and a vision like that to activate his party, Boris doesn’t stand a chance against Sunak.
    Yes he's taking the Starmer route of boring us to death. On this basis turnout will be about 5%.
    I heard him being interviewed on R5 the night before last. It was painful. The government's target is (from memory) 180K low cost houses over X period: what's yours?"

    "Emm....it will be more."

    "You support the builders, not the blockers but your deputy leader opposed the building of houses in her constituency"

    ...tumbleweed.

    As we all agree on this thread none of this will matter much but he is really poor. How long until we look back at this period as the good old days?
    The only way we might ever look on this period as the good old days is if there is a black swan catastrophe such as nuclear war or the fall of democracy.

    This period will be set alongside the 30s and the 70s as pretty awful politically and economically.

    Things will only get better under Labour! ;-)
    Its the hope that kills you.
    Whoever wins the next election is likely to get a decent run, whatever their policies.
    It's reasonably likely the war in Ukraine will be over; energy prices will continue to fall; relations with the EU ought to improve.

    The Tories will spend the next decade telling us that they set the conditions for recovery...
    Golden Legacy II, another shit remake.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 11,138

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
    Harsh to describe him as “partying in lockdown”. I genuinely believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Boris and many others were happily “partying in lockdown” to be clear
    Agree. He really was ambushed by a cake and there is no evidence he did any partying. He really was unlucky, but here is a man also told off for not wearing a seat belt and walking a dog without a lead. He seems to be attempting a Guinness Book a Records entry for the most trivial offences while politician around him take the piss and get away with. I hope he doesn't walk on the cracks in the pavement or wear a loud shirt in a built up area.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,998
    Jonathan said:

    Picard s3 is nostalgia done right.

    Indeed.

    Picard season 3 was better than sex.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Genuine question: in what sense do you think we are adapting away from 'a low wage, low skill* economy'?

    Are we going to do away with, say, care workers, building labourers, fruit pickers, hospitality staff, farm workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, etc., etc.

    (*Low wage ≠ low skill btw. Some of those jobs I have listed require quite a lot of skill, just not the sort of skill valued by society.)
    Double digit Inflation?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Maybe but personally I think HMG should go on a diet, kick 500k public funded workers back in to the real economy and thereby cut spending and increase private sector output.
    But, but I only joined in January.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak isn’t very good at winning elections so far.

    There is only one that matters

    However, Johnson and Truss legacy means he is unlikely to win in 24
    It’s his legacy too. He was chancellor for much of it.
    He resigned as Johnson’s COE and opposed Truss idiotic ideas
    He was Boris right hand man. He took a good long while to resign. Sunak was also fined by the police for partying in lockdown.

    He opposed Truss and lost.
    Harsh to describe him as “partying in lockdown”. I genuinely believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Boris and many others were happily “partying in lockdown” to be clear
    So the Abba Party just organically or magically manifested itself in his own apartment during a day and night of intense hard work?

    About that Garden Bridge. Hand over the £63m and it's yours.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Maybe but personally I think HMG should go on a diet, kick 500k public funded workers back in to the real economy and thereby cut spending and increase private sector output.
    But, but I only joined in January.
    Leave the Dark side behind and come back to the light
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    My swimming pool is an actual Roman cistern, fed by a natural spring



  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617
    Good morning everybody!

    When do we start to see results from the Northern Ireland local elections? I know the DUP have the most candidates, but with a bit of luck their vote will fall.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Leon said:

    My swimming pool is an actual Roman cistern, fed by a natural spring



    Their gerunds and pluperfects were terrible but they could certainly build.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,364
    I am curious about the photo of Sunak, his wife and the umbrella, which I think is a great one by the way. Other papers have.a different version. Did they nip back up the airplane steps, Mrs Murty do a rapid change from dress into green trousers and then go back down again


  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,170
    The bathroom tiles are made of fossils
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Genuine question: in what sense do you think we are adapting away from 'a low wage, low skill* economy'?

    Are we going to do away with, say, care workers, building labourers, fruit pickers, hospitality staff, farm workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, etc., etc.

    (*Low wage ≠ low skill btw. Some of those jobs I have listed require quite a lot of skill, just not the sort of skill valued by society.)
    Your last point is very true. Hearing jobs called "low skilled" just because they don't require a PPE degree and don't pay well is one of the things that really pisses me off. It just speaks to the ignorance of the middle class people who throw the term around, and is part of the ideological discourse by which these jobs are undervalued and the people who do them underpaid.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,458
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    Indeed:

    There comes a time when a party has been in power a long time, a little bit of arrogance has crept in, and they can't do anything right.

    There was nothing - fundamentally - wrong with Major's 1992-1997 government. Indeed, in many ways, it achieved a lot (a budget surplus, economic growth, progress in Northern Ireland, some much needed reforms to the white collar unions). Yet no-one gave a shit.

    Sunak - with a similar managerial bent - looks likely to suffer the same fate.
    Yep. The bad habits of being too long on power have crept in, things feel like crap, if it wasn't time now when would it be?

    If Rishi is still interested he can come back in 10 years after a sabbatical in the US.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Leon said:

    The bathroom tiles are made of fossils

    Are you safe?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,486
    Well given Rishi became PM in 2022, even if he loses next year he will have been PM 'for years'. Which is more than Liz can say!
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    Looks like Ukraine will now get F16s

    Biden says US wont block any transfers from European countries
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,903
    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “recognises the importance of immigration” meaning what? Oversees very high rates of immigration, while appointing a Home Secretary who constantly rails against the government’s own policies?

    @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak tells @ChrisMasonBBC says he REALLY wants to bring down legal immigration, but won't say by how much.

    "It will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time and the circumstances that we're facing."
    That's what take back control actually means. Rather than hundreds of thousands of EU citizens coming here on their choice from freedom of movement we get to choose who comes and ensure that their skills meet our shortages. The position of Rumanian street beggar is definitely filled.

    Right now, as we slowly try to adapt away from a low wage, low skill economy which developed under FoM, we have a lot of shortages so we need a lot of immigrants. Which is fine. One day we won't have such shortages at which point the number of permissions granted will fall very sharply.
    Genuine question: in what sense do you think we are adapting away from 'a low wage, low skill* economy'?

    Are we going to do away with, say, care workers, building labourers, fruit pickers, hospitality staff, farm workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, etc., etc.

    (*Low wage ≠ low skill btw. Some of those jobs I have listed require quite a lot of skill, just not the sort of skill valued by society.)
    Double digit Inflation?
    My (excellent) PT at the gym said her son stacking shelves at ASDA now earns the same rate as her because minimum wage has gone up by inflation whereas, like many others in work, she's had to settle for less.

    If it carries on like this everyone will be on the minimum wage. Tories introduce Marxism by the back door?

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    DavidL said:

    What else is he supposed to say? That his chances of winning are between slim and nil and Slim is out of town?

    Only the Express could take such comments seriously and even they struggle.

    I don’t agree that Rishi isn’t very good but it really won’t matter. The Tories are done and need to reinvent themselves once again during at least 2 Parliaments in opposition.

    I have a similar problem with the derision heaped on Jo Swinson here for her statement about becoming PM. She was leading a party standing in every constituency in GB. Was she supposed to say “My ambition is to prop up Johnson or Corbyn” to galvanise her party instead? Everyone knew she had no chance, but a non-league team playing Man City in the cup isn’t going to say, “ah, we’re just here to make up the numbers”.

    There are many reasons she wasn’t good but that wasn’t one.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,903
    edited May 2023
    FF43 said:

    I am curious about the photo of Sunak, his wife and the umbrella, which I think is a great one by the way. Other papers have.a different version. Did they nip back up the airplane steps, Mrs Murty do a rapid change from dress into green trousers and then go back down again


    Those two photos are getting off different planes, shirley?
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    For those who like a good story there is a new series of Danny Robins Uncanny Podcasts

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010x7c/episodes/downloads
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,458
    Sean_F said:

    I regret to inform you that a friend has said the same.

    Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny review — even Fleabag can’t rescue him this time

    The good news is that it’s not as poor as Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The bad news is that it’s not much better.

    A meandering, frequently enervating yawn, this fifth and most expensive Indy outing yet (about $300 million) is a curious demonstration of how a Hollywood studio can fire nearly a third of a billion bucks at late 20th century nostalgia and get it so wrong.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-even-fleabag-cant-rescue-him-this-time-xrlxsz5sg

    Sounds dismal.

    You can find really good examples of fanfiction, for almost any popular work, yet people who are paid professionals so often create crap.

    One film which greatly impressed me, and which I’m keenly awaiting Part Two, is Dune.
    I didn't much like it, since I think Chalamet is a dismal actor in everything I've seen him in and dont know what everyone else sees in him, but I want it to do so well they decide to make films of all the books, including the really crap ones at the end of the series. There's some very weird stuff that would be fun to see done epic and serious.
This discussion has been closed.