We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
So we now have South Devon, Cornwall and the Cambrian Coast all without any rail services following the recent storms. Dawlish is clearly going to take some while to repair. As a guide, much of the Cambrian Coast railway is going to be closed until late Spring even if repairs go to schedule.
Urrrm, part of the Cambrian Coast is closed because they are upgrading it. Replacement of an existing toll bridge led to the existing bridge suffering from scour last November, and the rather funny collapse of a nearby high-tension power pylon:
The latter link is well worth looking at if you like big bangs. What's impressive is that they were already well advanced on building the replacement when they blew up the old one.
Mr. D, that was quite good. I was glad when series X turned out to be surprisingly good (one or two lacklustre episodes but some that I liked a lot as well).
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Since mitigation (or rather adjustment) will actually help people whilst reducing emissions will have no effect what so ever there is a simple logic to the position which clearly you are not able to grasp.
Well, reducing emissions would clearly have an effect since they are the cause. But the questions are whether too much damage has already been done, and whether it's possible (politically, especially wrt the developing world) to reduce emissions enough to make enough of a difference.
Personally I think not, so agree with you that adaptation (thanks for correcting the jargon Oblitus) is the best way forward. But we have to actually flipping DO it, and not just agree that it's a good thing.
And that shouldn't, of course, stop us trying to move to alternatives to carbon where possible.
LOL. Sorry Hugh I always find it amusing when someone makes a stupid statement that has no basis in real science. Given that you made such a complete idiot of yourself the other night by making claims about CO2 that even AGW proponents would not be able to support I will accept that you simply know nothing about the subject.
Given that I find the whole concept of religion offensive I am afraid you are going to get no where with that argument.
There is clearly no point in discussing with you further because you are a self-righteous arsehole.
I am sure that OGH will delete this post - quite reasonably - because it is offensive to call you names. I would ask that you don't use offensive terms to describe my God.
I don't mind you calling me that at all Charles. Though I would point out that 'self-righteous' is probably a description more accurately ascribed to yourself given your ability to take offence simply because someone challenges your myth cycle.
I will wait for the cease and desist letter from your god before I start worrying about offending her.
As I've said, I don't care you challenging my beliefs. I just ask you extend a basic courtesy of using someone's proper name or title.
Why should I use the proper title for a fictional being? I will extend that courtesy to people who actually exist. But I certainly won't be bound by medieval conventions when it comes to figments of people's imaginations.
Hmmm. It would be interesting for you to back that assertion up by showing when the Dawlish seawall has been breached in the past. ISTR it happens every so often - as far back as 1840, 1855 and 1859. In civil engineering terms, it is hard to maintain a trackbed that has been built into the sea, as opposed to cut away from firm rock on the land. It certainly happened in the 1980s when I was a kid - there was a newspaper article of someone running along the adjacent footpath and stopping an HST just in time.
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
Dawlish is surprising because it's normally a relatively protected section of the coast IIRC. Maybe the wind direction was unusual.
Andy, I think the arriving storm centre was a lot further south than, for example, the Christmas Eve storm and that meant the initial wind gusts were more from the south-east or south-south east than a conventional south-westerly. That probably did the damage in places like Dawlish, Torquay and Teignmouth.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Since mitigation (or rather adjustment) will actually help people whilst reducing emissions will have no effect what so ever there is a simple logic to the position which clearly you are not able to grasp.
Well, reducing emissions would clearly have an effect since they are the cause. But the questions are whether too much damage has already been done, and whether it's possible (politically, especially wrt the developing world) to reduce emissions enough to make enough of a difference.
Personally I think not, so agree with you that adaptation (thanks for correcting the jargon Oblitus) is the best way forward. But we have to actually flipping DO it, and not just agree that it's a good thing.
And that shouldn't, of course, stop us trying to move to alternatives to carbon where possible.
LOL. Sorry Hugh I always find it amusing when someone makes a stupid statement that has no basis in real science. Given that you made such a complete idiot of yourself the other night by making claims about CO2 that even AGW proponents would not be able to support I will accept that you simply know nothing about the subject.
Ach go take a break from your keyboard, just because Charles owned your ass no need to turn your aggression this way.
Nah. I am having too much fun this morning pricking balloons. And I hardly think sulking because I upset his fictional creation is 'owning my ass'.
Your CO2 claims by the way were completely wrong. Not just in terms of the AGW debate but even with reference to AGW science. If you are going to try and discuss science then please at least try and learn the basics before you start.
Mr. CD13, if you believe in infinite parallel universes that means, right now, there's one (or more) where Jennifer Morrison and Olivia Wilde are pillow-fighting over who gets to sleep with me.
Huzzah!
Almost enough to make a chap believe in some sort of divine being.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Since mitigation (or rather adjustment) will actually help people whilst reducing emissions will have no effect what so ever there is a simple logic to the position which clearly you are not able to grasp.
Well, reducing emissions would clearly have an effect since they are the cause. But the questions are whether too much damage has already been done, and whether it's possible (politically, especially wrt the developing world) to reduce emissions enough to make enough of a difference.
Personally I think not, so agree with you that adaptation (thanks for correcting the jargon Oblitus) is the best way forward. But we have to actually flipping DO it, and not just agree that it's a good thing.
And that shouldn't, of course, stop us trying to move to alternatives to carbon where possible.
LOL. Sorry Hugh I always find it amusing when someone makes a stupid statement that has no basis in real science. Given that you made such a complete idiot of yourself the other night by making claims about CO2 that even AGW proponents would not be able to support I will accept that you simply know nothing about the subject.
Ach go take a break from your keyboard, just because Charles owned your ass no need to turn your aggression this way.
That's nothing, Tory Tiny Windmillism is notoriously bad tempered. As long as the tories don't turn their aggression to Cammie then all is well.
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Not sure Bath and Bathgate have ever been mistaken by anyone who has visited both
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Not sure Bath and Bathgate have ever been mistaken by anyone who has visited both
Not sure the Torygraph and WingsOverScotland have ever been mistaken by anyone who visited both. Even by inept labour spinners.
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Not sure Bath and Bathgate have ever been mistaken by anyone who has visited both
Not sure the Torygraph and WingsOverScotland have ever been mistaken by anyone who visited both. Even by inept labour spinners.
Ouch - really got to you that one didn't it ?
perhaps it should be cyber-expats rather than -nats ?
Dawlish is surprising because it's normally a relatively protected section of the coast IIRC. Maybe the wind direction was unusual.
Andy, I think the arriving storm centre was a lot further south than, for example, the Christmas Eve storm and that meant the initial wind gusts were more from the south-east or south-south east than a conventional south-westerly. That probably did the damage in places like Dawlish, Torquay and Teignmouth.
That's a good explanation. The other thing to bear in mind is that we're near the spring tides time of the month, and high tide yesterday evening would have coincided with some of the stronger winds.
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Not sure Bath and Bathgate have ever been mistaken by anyone who has visited both
Not sure the Torygraph and WingsOverScotland have ever been mistaken by anyone who visited both. Even by inept labour spinners.
Ouch - really got to you that one didn't it ?
perhaps it should be cyber-expats rather than -nats ?
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Not sure Bath and Bathgate have ever been mistaken by anyone who has visited both
Not sure the Torygraph and WingsOverScotland have ever been mistaken by anyone who visited both. Even by inept labour spinners.
Ouch - really got to you that one didn't it ?
perhaps it should be cyber-expats rather than -nats ?
LOL
Calm down dear. I doubt one of the most popular scottish political websites really is that bothered about a couple of Blue-noses out of joint, but feel free to rant away as it is certainly very amusing.
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
There was a piece on the news last night about Facebook's 10 years of existence. It'll be interesting to see how certain 'institutions' (Twitter, Facebook, Amazon, Google) last. Youtube's recent changes regarding copyright infringement has really pissed off a lot of people and I think it has put some channels into jeopardy. (From what I understand even a few seconds of footage or music can be sufficient for a copyright flag to be raised, and it's quite easy for a channel to be shut down if it receives a few).
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
Almost exactly the same as The Guardian piece.. Plagiarists!
You seriously think Dacre is going to turn kipper just because immigration scare stories sell papers? Think again.
Well that has to win the award for putting words in someone's mouth!
Why do you keep doing that?!
You seemed upset at the story when the guardian ran with it and little happier now that the Mail is going with it. I'm simply pointing out the facts as to why. Can't help it if you are so touchy about it when those facts are pointed out.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
In the same way general relativity predicts time dilation (which we can observe) but also things we can't observe (like what goes on inside black holes).
Although there are some predictions we can never test, we just have to take them as part of the package of a successful theory.
And if you really want to blow your mind with multiverses, try this
It's just very boisterous. Cameron was trying to say something regarding the flooding when Milliband had asked a question about women in parliament, so a lot of noise from the opposition benches. To be fair to Cameron, he did get to that point after he got his flooding point across.
It's just very boisterous. Cameron was trying to say something regarding the flooding when Milliband had asked a question about women in parliament. To be fair to Cameron, he did get to that point after he got his flooding point across.
Thanks. I realised that it wasn't a given that TJ was watching - I was about to post "Red-faced obfuscation by Cameron" on a similar basis.
"Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation."
I believe they are a consequence of the mathematics associated with string theory (as are another half a dozen dimensions). Quantum theory is one of the best tested theories and brings back an element of free will. Before then, the deterministic universe suggested that if you knew the initial set up of the world, you would know the future completely.
As you may guess, I think that scientific theories that are untestable (like multiverse theories) aren't really science, but metaphysics. Some scientists agree, some don't - it's a matter of faith.
Miliband started his Question on flooding and then changed the Question to women in the tory party,so Cameron started to give a reply on the flooding part but all the labour MP's wanted was a reply to women in the tory party,just showed parts of the labour party couldn't give a sh!t about the flooding.
Do you really care ? Is PMQ's relevant to anything ?
You right,miliband PMQ's questions,weather,women in the tory party and class warfare,what's the point.
labour lost the battle on the economy.
I'm afraid we're in for a year of this. Labour have no policies to discuss and are "keeping their powder dry " for the GE. Quite why a load of bollocks is more credible 6 months before a GE rather than 16 escapes me, but their spinners seem to think so.
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
Almost exactly the same as The Guardian piece.. Plagiarists!
You seriously think Dacre is going to turn kipper just because immigration scare stories sell papers? Think again.
Well that has to win the award for putting words in someone's mouth!
Why do you keep doing that?!
You seemed upset at the story when the guardian ran with it and little happier now that the Mail is going with it. I'm simply pointing out the facts as to why. Can't help it if you are so touchy about it when those facts are pointed out.
Have you gone mental? i Didn't comment on the tone of the reporting by The Guardian or The Mail. Seems to me that the Mail has copied the Guardian piece almost word for word.
Read last nights thread if you are unsure, quote an example of me being upset by it and amaze us all
Marquee Mark's Law: whoever first mentions Bullingdon has already lost the argument.....
Probably a less skewed law would be "Whoever first mentions embarrassing baggage in their opponent's past or present situation...." so that along with Bullingdon you can include other dull subjects like unions & female representation.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
In the same way general relativity predicts time dilation (which we can observe) but also things we can't observe (like what goes on inside black holes).
Although there are some predictions we can never test, we just have to take them as part of the package of a successful theory.
And if you really want to blow your mind with multiverses, try this
Morris Dancer: there is a petition in favour of Mr Nawaz on change.org. If you feel strongly about the way he has been harassed by other Lib Dems for not showing enough "respect" (a ridiculous concept) to Muslims' idea of Allah or Sky Fairy (that should keep both Charles and Richard Tyndall happy) then do sign.
It is important that those of us who value free speech, who do not want to be bullied into respect or threatened with violence, who do not want to see the reintroduction of a blasphemy law, who feel that Islam should be the subject of the same rough, critical and derisive public discourse as every other belief or group show solidarity.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
That is not remotely true. They are not an "inevitable prediction" of quantum theory. The competing Copenhagen interpretation of quantum events is at least as widely believed.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
In the same way general relativity predicts time dilation (which we can observe) but also things we can't observe (like what goes on inside black holes).
Although there are some predictions we can never test, we just have to take them as part of the package of a successful theory.
And if you really want to blow your mind with multiverses, try this
In an infinite number of universes, there must be at least one - or indeed trillions - where God exists. Therefore, God exists.
Silly argument. There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe. Same with an omnipotent being who is meant to love all humans as a parent loves a child, but is ok with a world like this where the torture of children is pretty much an everyday occurrence.
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
Thanks.
My Dad used to have a Beaufighter.
Childhood dream of his, but the quality was dreadful (roof leaked, passenger door wouldn't open, driver window stuck down) and the mileage per gallon had to been seen to be believed!
a gift if you think the bookies have called it right
Any takers?
Thats a bold offer for a bet, but I can see UKIP/Labour being very close in this seat (I'm on UKIP at 16s) so I personally won't take you up on it. A stunning offer for anyone who believes in Blue fortunes in Estuary England though.
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
Thanks.
My Dad used to have a Beaufighter.
Childhood dream of his, but the quality was dreadful (roof leaked, passenger door wouldn't open, driver window stuck down) and the mileage per gallon had to been seen to be believed!
For one over-excited minute, I thought you meant an actual Beaufighter.
A namesake of yours (Hugh Everet III), suggested the original multiverse in a PhD thesis in 1957 (I think). I reckon Nils Bohr to be one of the most under-rated scientists of the 20th century, but the Copenhagen interpretation was a little bizarre, even if it is true.
Of course, particles can be in two places at once. I believe there is a finite chance that you could disappear, and reappear the other side of the Sun. It is calculable. That is very small, but finite. Infinity is not really understandable, though.
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
Thanks.
My Dad used to have a Beaufighter.
Childhood dream of his, but the quality was dreadful (roof leaked, passenger door wouldn't open, driver window stuck down) and the mileage per gallon had to been seen to be believed!
For one over-excited minute, I thought you meant an actual Beaufighter.
They basically cut the wings and the tail off to make the car... ;-)
After the first Question,miliband went on women in the tory party and class warfare,just put's the bull what Nick Robinson tried to get out about a month back,no wonder this guy as a nickname of 'Toenails' when it comes to the labour party.
" There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe."
For a couple of thousand years it was a universal truth, true in any universe, that the sum of the angles in a triangle was 180 degrees. In other words there could not exist a universe in which that statement could be false. Then in the early 19th century Gauss proved that there were other geometries in which the sum of the angles need not be 180 degrees.
Is it not a little rash to make such a bald statement that in an infinite number of universes only those things which we know with our level of knowledge today to exist can exist?
Shame to see the railway at Dawlish in such a sorry state. Never been that way by rail - nearest equivalent in the London/Essex area I can think of is Chalkwell station on the London, Tilbury & Southend Line, right on the Thames Estuary.
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
Almost exactly the same as The Guardian piece.. Plagiarists!
You seriously think Dacre is going to turn kipper just because immigration scare stories sell papers? Think again.
Well that has to win the award for putting words in someone's mouth!
Why do you keep doing that?!
You seemed upset at the story when the guardian ran with it and little happier now that the Mail is going with it. I'm simply pointing out the facts as to why. Can't help it if you are so touchy about it when those facts are pointed out.
Have you gone mental? i Didn't comment on the tone of the reporting by The Guardian or The Mail. Seems to me that the Mail has copied the Guardian piece almost word for word.
Read last nights thread if you are unsure, quote an example of me being upset by it and amaze us all
" There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe."
For a couple of thousand years it was a universal truth, true in any universe, that the sum of the angles in a triangle was 180 degrees. In other words there could not exist a universe in which that statement could be false. Then in the early 19th century Gauss proved that there were other geometries in which the sum of the angles need not be 180 degrees.
Is it not a little rash to make such a bald statement that in an infinite number of universes only those things which we know with our level of knowledge today to exist can exist?
You need to change the definitions of either 'number', 'prime' or '4' to come up with a prime number that is divisible by 4 though. In the set of naturals excluding 2 (Or indeed 3), 4 is prime. But if 4 (And other naturals) has the normal meaning of S(S(S(S(0)))) then it can't be prime...
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
Thanks.
My Dad used to have a Beaufighter.
Childhood dream of his, but the quality was dreadful (roof leaked, passenger door wouldn't open, driver window stuck down) and the mileage per gallon had to been seen to be believed!
Cripes !!
Fortunately the earlier models, that I'm favouring, appear to enjoy a better reputation.
A namesake of yours (Hugh Everet III), suggested the original multiverse in a PhD thesis in 1957 (I think). I reckon Nils Bohr to be one of the most under-rated scientists of the 20th century, but the Copenhagen interpretation was a little bizarre, even if it is true.
Of course, particles can be in two places at once. I believe there is a finite chance that you could disappear, and reappear the other side of the Sun. It is calculable. That is very small, but finite. Infinity is not really understandable, though.
So why should a God be?
Well I suppose if a God obeys the laws of nature as we know them, then there's nothing ruling it out. But, unlike multiverses, there's nothing ruling it in either!
Trying to understand religion by means of logic and physics completely misses the point. Religion *has* to exist beyond the realms of the known (and preferablt, beyond the realms of the knowable), because its power relies on it being taken on faith. The potency of gods is that they have supernatural powers and that there are dimensions they exist in which humans cannot measure or understand (except on faith).
" There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe."
Is it not a little rash to make such a bald statement that in an infinite number of universes only those things which we know with our level of knowledge today to exist can exist?
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours. e.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
In the same way general relativity predicts time dilation (which we can observe) but also things we can't observe (like what goes on inside black holes).
Although there are some predictions we can never test, we just have to take them as part of the package of a successful theory.
And if you really want to blow your mind with multiverses, try this
In an infinite number of universes, there must be at least one - or indeed trillions - where God exists. Therefore, God exists.
Silly argument. There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe. Same with an omnipotent being who is meant to love all humans as a parent loves a child, but is ok with a world like this where the torture of children is pretty much an everyday occurrence.
What a lot of twaddle. Are you saying that you, Ishmael X have examined every universe in the infinitude of universes and you can personally reassure us that the laws of mathematics, as you understand them, apply everywhere?
Thanks for that. We'll be in touch. Keep taking the antipsychotics.
Far more likely than any of this nonsense is the PROBABILITY that a vulnerable, ingenious but rather self regarding bipedal ape, evolved from lemurs, living on a smallish planet in an obscure corner of the Milky Way near the dreary end of the Andromeda Cluster, does not have the mental capacity to understand the universe, no matter how hard he thinks, and nor does he have the mental capacity to realise these limitations.
And I offer, as an evidential example, Ishmael X of politicalbetting.com.
They basically cut the wings and the tail off to make the car... ;-)
There used to be a rusting Bristol (poss. a 401?) in a yard in Tarbert, Isle of Harris. Often wondered what happened to it.
The 401 is a little too early for me, although there is a fine example for sale presently at approx £70k. Hopefully your Tarbert example found a new home.
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation.
In the same way general relativity predicts time dilation (which we can observe) but also things we can't observe (like what goes on inside black holes).
Although there are some predictions we can never test, we just have to take them as part of the package of a successful theory.
And if you really want to blow your mind with multiverses, try this
In an infinite number of universes, there must be at least one - or indeed trillions - where God exists. Therefore, God exists.
Silly argument. There are lots of things, such as prime numbers divisible by 4, which we know do not exist in any universe. Same with an omnipotent being who is meant to love all humans as a parent loves a child, but is ok with a world like this where the torture of children is pretty much an everyday occurrence.
In an infinite number of universes then IFF E 1+ God ==> oo || God
i.e. if (and only if) at least one God exists then there must be an infinite number of Gods in an infinite number of universes
A namesake of yours (Hugh Everet III), suggested the original multiverse in a PhD thesis in 1957 (I think). I reckon Nils Bohr to be one of the most under-rated scientists of the 20th century, but the Copenhagen interpretation was a little bizarre, even if it is true.
Of course, particles can be in two places at once. I believe there is a finite chance that you could disappear, and reappear the other side of the Sun. It is calculable. That is very small, but finite. Infinity is not really understandable, though.
So why should a God be?
Well I suppose if a God obeys the laws of nature as we know them, then there's nothing ruling it out. But, unlike multiverses, there's nothing ruling it in either!
Trying to understand religion by means of logic and physics completely misses the point. Religion *has* to exist beyond the realms of the known (and preferablt, beyond the realms of the knowable), because its power relies on it being taken on faith. The potency of gods is that they have supernatural powers and that there are dimensions they exist in which humans cannot measure or understand (except on faith).
If any such being(s) exist I doubt they'd take much of an interest in the affairs of one tiny little planet amongst the billions (maybe trillions?) of others in the universe(s?).
But all the major religions (Certainly the Abraham ones) make out that we are incredibly important in the scheme of things .
Comments
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/pont-briwet-closed-trains-until-6445894
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/pylon-demolition-north-wales---6246730
The latter link is well worth looking at if you like big bangs. What's impressive is that they were already well advanced on building the replacement when they blew up the old one.
Can I suggest you both drop it and move onto other topics.
And Charles, please don't swear at other posters, thank you.
Keep it civil towards other posters.
*chortle*
I like Battenberg. The name I mean. No idea about the person. It makes a refreshing change to fruitcakes. :-)
I'm comfortable with RT calling God who he likes. Atheists tend to be determined to press their views, but it's their problem not ours.
Science is great as explaining how, but can never explain why. Currently, the favourite "how" to explain the world and it's beginning is the multiverse and all its variants. The world seemed so fine-tuned for life, that this "fixes" the chances. Unfortunately, it brings in the troublesome infinities.
So an infinite number of yous are having this identical argument with an infinite number of RTs at this very moment. Just think about that ... not a squillion yous, but an infinite number.
If you have to believe that to explain cosmic coincidence, a "Sky Fairy" seems quite sensible.
Your CO2 claims by the way were completely wrong. Not just in terms of the AGW debate but even with reference to AGW science. If you are going to try and discuss science then please at least try and learn the basics before you start.
Huzzah!
Almost enough to make a chap believe in some sort of divine being.
Almost identical set-up forecast for noon on Saturday.
And possibly another for Wednesday/Thursday next week.
Explanatory article here
http://news.sciencemag.org/social-sciences/2014/02/voter-shortsightedness-may-skew-elections
Study the article is based on here
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajps.12053/full
perhaps it should be cyber-expats rather than -nats ?
I thought it was a joke til I saw those pictures of Dawlish. Eeek.
There are an infinite number of universes where you are being ravaged non-stop by Sally Bercow.
*chortle*
Almost exactly the same as The Guardian piece.. Plagiarists!
Calm down dear. I doubt one of the most popular scottish political websites really is that bothered about a couple of Blue-noses out of joint, but feel free to rant away as it is certainly very amusing.
In case you still can't tell the difference.
The Telegraph is this link > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ (the clue was in the name)
WingsOverScotland is this one > http://wingsoverscotland.com/ (the clue was in the name)
Oh er missus !!
Now before the poor Moderator has a fit of the vapours or Mrs Harperson harangues us all, I do not refer to the rather lovely frontage that adorns the female of the species .... Shame say you all !!
No PBers I refer to the rather fine motor car. I'm looking to purchase a Bristol 411 or earlier. Do we have a Bristol Owner Club member on site or an aficionado who might offer some tips ??
Thanks.
But I agree - no point in banging my head against a brick wall.
As featured on Newsnight yesterday, the Conservatives have no organisation in the area
16/1 Paddy Power and Ladbrokes
You seriously think Dacre is going to turn kipper just because immigration scare stories sell papers? Think again.
Well that has to win the award for putting words in someone's mouth!
Why do you keep doing that?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26047446
There was a piece on the news last night about Facebook's 10 years of existence. It'll be interesting to see how certain 'institutions' (Twitter, Facebook, Amazon, Google) last. Youtube's recent changes regarding copyright infringement has really pissed off a lot of people and I think it has put some channels into jeopardy. (From what I understand even a few seconds of footage or music can be sufficient for a copyright flag to be raised, and it's quite easy for a channel to be shut down if it receives a few).
Why do you keep doing that?!
You seemed upset at the story when the guardian ran with it and little happier now that the Mail is going with it. I'm simply pointing out the facts as to why. Can't help it if you are so touchy about it when those facts are pointed out.
Do you really care ? Is PMQ's relevant to anything ?
- Vin Diesel as Riddick in "Pitch Black".
A dire day.
Did the lib dems remember to cheer?
labour lost the battle on the economy.
This is useful information for anyone affected by the the tube strike.
"Multiverses are actually far more scientific than God.
The reason being, they are in fact an inevitable prediction of robust scientific theories (eg quantum theory) whose other predictions have been verified by observation."
I believe they are a consequence of the mathematics associated with string theory (as are another half a dozen dimensions). Quantum theory is one of the best tested theories and brings back an element of free will. Before then, the deterministic universe suggested that if you knew the initial set up of the world, you would know the future completely.
As you may guess, I think that scientific theories that are untestable (like multiverse theories) aren't really science, but metaphysics. Some scientists agree, some don't - it's a matter of faith.
Have you gone mental? i Didn't comment on the tone of the reporting by The Guardian or The Mail. Seems to me that the Mail has copied the Guardian piece almost word for word.
Read last nights thread if you are unsure, quote an example of me being upset by it and amaze us all
It is important that those of us who value free speech, who do not want to be bullied into respect or threatened with violence, who do not want to see the reintroduction of a blasphemy law, who feel that Islam should be the subject of the same rough, critical and derisive public discourse as every other belief or group show solidarity.
Think it'll be a while til I take the sleeper between London and Penzance again.
Thurrock 2015
Best prices are
Lab 1/3
Con 7/2
Kip 16
LD 100
I will lay 4/5 Conservatives finish above UKIP
a gift if you think the bookies have called it right
Any takers?
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/nick-clegg-give-full-support-to-libdem-ppc-maajid-nawaz-and-take-disciplinary-action-against-party-member-mohammed-shafiq
I've not used the site before. I know it's common to have multiple petitions on the same subject, and would prefer to just sign the most popular.
Childhood dream of his, but the quality was dreadful (roof leaked, passenger door wouldn't open, driver window stuck down) and the mileage per gallon had to been seen to be believed!
I took 11/2 instead of 5-1 BOG today but didn't bother with a 15/8 instead of a 7/4 BOG...
http://yesscotland.net/survey
A namesake of yours (Hugh Everet III), suggested the original multiverse in a PhD thesis in 1957 (I think). I reckon Nils Bohr to be one of the most under-rated scientists of the 20th century, but the Copenhagen interpretation was a little bizarre, even if it is true.
Of course, particles can be in two places at once. I believe there is a finite chance that you could disappear, and reappear the other side of the Sun. It is calculable. That is very small, but finite. Infinity is not really understandable, though.
So why should a God be?
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/wythenshaweandsaleeast/#comment-62141
http://josefshomperlenmilwaukeearticle.net/miliband-wants-more-serious-pmqs/
After the first Question,miliband went on women in the tory party and class warfare,just put's the bull what Nick Robinson tried to get out about a month back,no wonder this guy as a nickname of 'Toenails' when it comes to the labour party.
For a couple of thousand years it was a universal truth, true in any universe, that the sum of the angles in a triangle was 180 degrees. In other words there could not exist a universe in which that statement could be false. Then in the early 19th century Gauss proved that there were other geometries in which the sum of the angles need not be 180 degrees.
Is it not a little rash to make such a bald statement that in an infinite number of universes only those things which we know with our level of knowledge today to exist can exist?
Read last nights thread if you are unsure, quote an example of me being upset by it and amaze us all
@MickPork
Where's the instant reply? You are normally so swift with a comeback.
Where did I say anything that criticised the Guardian or praised the Mail. Or offered an opinion other than to say the Mail had plagiarised?
Fortunately the earlier models, that I'm favouring, appear to enjoy a better reputation.
That story has disappeared off the news front pages completely. Genuinely curious.
Thanks for that. We'll be in touch. Keep taking the antipsychotics.
Far more likely than any of this nonsense is the PROBABILITY that a vulnerable, ingenious but rather self regarding bipedal ape, evolved from lemurs, living on a smallish planet in an obscure corner of the Milky Way near the dreary end of the Andromeda Cluster, does not have the mental capacity to understand the universe, no matter how hard he thinks, and nor does he have the mental capacity to realise these limitations.
And I offer, as an evidential example, Ishmael X of politicalbetting.com.
i.e. if (and only if) at least one God exists then there must be an infinite number of Gods in an infinite number of universes
Note the qualification
But all the major religions (Certainly the Abraham ones) make out that we are incredibly important in the scheme of things