politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An emerging trend? LAB voters are now more likely to say they are certain to vote
There’s an interesting article by Ipsos-MORI’s Roger Mortimer on the way that LAB voters are increaingly saying that they are more certain to vote than CON ones.
Does this trend match up with loss of support to UKIP? UKIP does well with older people, and older people are the most likely voters, so if they're defecting more than average the remaining Conservatives will be less reliable voters.
Does this trend match up with loss of support to UKIP? UKIP does well with older people, and older people are the most likely voters, so if they're defecting more than average the remaining Conservatives will be less reliable voters.
That would explain the small fall in the Tory certainty to vote, but most of the change above is because Labour's is much higher - probably because their voters are motivated to get rid of the government and (whether linked or not) because the voters switching from the Lib Dems (as Mike as previously shown) are more motivated than most.
Italy and France Services PMIs are out, and both are marginally ahead of expectations. Italy improved to 49.4 from 47.9. France showed a miniscule amount of improvement, going from 48.6 to 48.9.
Germany was slightly behind expectations, coming out at 53.1, which is a slight slowdown from December's 53.6.
Overall Eurozone composite PMI showed a continued, albeit tepid, recovery - the figure of 52.9 was marginally behind December's 53.2 but still showed economic expansion.
Broadly: the periphery (Ireland and Spain) is improving; Germany is weaker than expected; while France and Italy might be pulling themselves off the floor, but we probably need a few more months results before getting more optimistic.
Happy Birthday to Nick Palmer the Once and Future MP. :-)
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
I think as a counter measure to this thread I feel it incumbent on me as the undisputed PB TOTY since 2008 and world wide accoladed sage of matters political that I proffer to the denizens of our august site my most considered appreciation :
Does this trend match up with loss of support to UKIP? UKIP does well with older people, and older people are the most likely voters, so if they're defecting more than average the remaining Conservatives will be less reliable voters.
That would explain the small fall in the Tory certainty to vote, but most of the change above is because Labour's is much higher - probably because their voters are motivated to get rid of the government and (whether linked or not) because the voters switching from the Lib Dems (as Mike as previously shown) are more motivated than most.
The LD switching - as Mike tells us regularly and frequently - happened in 2010 and has been rock solid ever since so it would already be in the numbers.
More likely, Miliband has been throwing his base some red meat in the form of raising taxes on other people and they like that.
Happy Birthday to Nick Palmer the Once and Future MP. :-)
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
I think as a counter measure to this thread I feel it incumbent on me as the undisputed PB TOTY since 2008 and world wide accoladed sage of matters political that I proffer to the denizens of our august site my most considered appreciation :
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister
So you think that LAB will win GE2015 with another leader?
Happy Birthday to Nick Palmer the Once and Future MP. :-)
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
I don't share your religious views. However, I largely agree with your views on the proposed Charter. I'm not interested in gesture politics. I'd rather see an end to chain migration, particularly from dysfunctional societies, such as Pakistan and the Horn of Africa, and the police enforcing our laws, rather than backing off for reasons of "cultural sensitivity."
I think as a counter measure to this thread I feel it incumbent on me as the undisputed PB TOTY since 2008 and world wide accoladed sage of matters political that I proffer to the denizens of our august site my most considered appreciation :
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister
So you think that LAB will win GE2015 with another leader?
I think it unlikely I'll join the Labour party before May 2015 .... and even if I was offered the leadership of the Labour party some political miracles are beyond even my powers of resurrection !!
Mike, you'll just have to content yourself with another Con/LibDem coalition and a peerage for political services a few years down the line.
Lord Smithson of Bedford has a certain elegance to it.
Spot on, Mr. F. It was such 'sensitivity' that prevented the possibility of the rape gangs that came to light last year from being caught and stopped earlier.
On a less vicious note, it's the same 'sensitivity' (aided by political cowardice) that means we almost have a de facto blasphemy law when it comes to Islam/Mohammed.
Happy Birthday to Nick Palmer the Once and Future MP. :-)
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
I think as a counter measure to this thread I feel it incumbent on me as the undisputed PB TOTY since 2008 and world wide accoladed sage of matters political that I proffer to the denizens of our august site my most considered appreciation :
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister
So you think that LAB will win GE2015 with another leader?
Lord Smithson of Bedford has a certain elegance to it.
OT but as a correction/clarification (of my contribution!) re the discussion with @david_herdson yesterday - when a list MSP dies/resigns, the seat goes to the highest unsuccessful person on the PARTY list of the relevant list group for the party in question as at the last GE, not all parties.
Of course this does not work if a single independent MSP dies - but I suppose this is not unjust as they have no party to complain about being hard done by. Presumably they have an election.
Spot on, Mr. F. It was such 'sensitivity' that prevented the possibility of the rape gangs that came to light last year from being caught and stopped earlier.
On a less vicious note, it's the same 'sensitivity' (aided by political cowardice) that means we almost have a de facto blasphemy law when it comes to Islam/Mohammed.
Time and again, Councillor Peter Golds has provided the police with evidence of electoral malpractice in Tower Hamlets, only to be told "it's a cultural matter."
If one compares the VI turnout at the same relative point in the parliament along with the subsequent upswing for Labour towards GE2010 and the polls at both relevant points then I feel it would be foolish from a betting perspective to rule out Labour Majority.
A Labour Minority Gov't is still my view whilst the very best the Conservatives can hope for a continuation of the coalition. I am still ruling out a Conservative Majority.
I only refer to people with religious beliefs as being mentally ill when SeanT is on the board and I want to provoke him.
Does this make me a bad person?
Just to be clear before Charles' misinterpretation takes root. I did not say that individuals were mentally ill if they had religious beliefs. What I said was that religious belief was "a sign of some underlying illness in society".
I think as a counter measure to this thread I feel it incumbent on me as the undisputed PB TOTY since 2008 and world wide accoladed sage of matters political that I proffer to the denizens of our august site my most considered appreciation :
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister
So you think that LAB will win GE2015 with another leader?
Lord Smithson of Bedford has a certain elegance to it.
Duke of Bedford would be much more attractive.
Me thinks the post is already occupied .... although you holding PB events at Woburn Abbey would have its merits and PB Moderators might have red carded PBers sent to the Safari Park for dinner !!
Happy Birthday to Nick Palmer the Once and Future MP. :-)
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
I've had an idea for a betting market for the GE - a kind of VIX index - a market on the number of seats changing hands - bands of say 20 between 0 and 160.
1997 would be high, 2001 low etc - punters of all party allegiance could bet on the same outcomes.
On topic: This is a very interesting graph. Labour’s positive electoral bias has historically stemmed partly from having low turnouts in their heartlands. In these heartlands the Tories are demoralised and know they can’t win -so they turn out in very low numbers, and the Labour voters know a red rosetted donkey will win and don’t bother much either. This gives Labour a high MPS/votes ratio.
Maybe in 2015 we’ll see higher turnouts and votes for Labour. In their heartlands it will make zero difference to MPS. But if this impending rise in turnout applies also to marginals then they’ll win by a big margin.
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
One poster yesterday called anyone who would vote against what he regards as the right way in the Scottish referendum as "insane".
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
I only refer to people with religious beliefs as being mentally ill when SeanT is on the board and I want to provoke him.
Does this make me a bad person?
Just to be clear before Charles' misinterpretation takes root. I did not say that individuals were mentally ill if they had religious beliefs. What I said was that religious belief was "a sign of some underlying illness in society".
In the same way that my Phenytoin tablets are a sign of my underlying epilepsy, I suppose.
I don't think it makes sense to treat all religious practices alike but I appreciate that if one has a devout Catholic mother the temptation is probably irresistible.
On topic, we should separate the instance from the trend. Is this the start of a trend? I have my doubts.
Looking at the above graph, the current figures are the eighth time that Labour's 'certainty to vote' figures have topped the Tory ones since the election - or put another way, on seven occasions, the Tories have recovered the lead. Will this time be any different.
In fact, the medium-term trend is for *both* major parties' figures to show a slow decline, from around 67% in late 2010 to about 60% now, with both wobbling about 3% either side of that trend line. I don't think these latest figures are any more significant that those from late 2013 which gave the Conservatives a brief lead.
I was about to make the same point as Patrick. What we may see in 2015 is a reduction in that portion of the higher Labour seats-to-votes ratio, compared with the Conservatives on the same national vote share, which arises from the historic tendency to low turnout in safe Labour seats (the shameful systematic electoral pro-Labour bias of smaller constituency sizes in safe Labour areas will of course remain). As regards the result, what matters is whether there is an improved Labour turnout in marginal seats; given the efforts that already are made by both main parties in such seats to get their supporters out, there may be less room for improvement in the marginals, although it's hard to assess.
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
One poster yesterday called anyone who would vote against what he regards as the right way in the Scottish referendum as "insane".
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
When people have to resort to insulting others on these forums, there is nothing really interesting happening to comment on. The political polling, referendum and current political issues are currently very boring. I am surprised that people have not started to comment on the weather !
Spot on, Mr. F. It was such 'sensitivity' that prevented the possibility of the rape gangs that came to light last year from being caught and stopped earlier.
On a less vicious note, it's the same 'sensitivity' (aided by political cowardice) that means we almost have a de facto blasphemy law when it comes to Islam/Mohammed.
It is one area of this country where I feel we are going backwards. The Life of Brian is arguably one of Britain's greatest comedies, banned by several local authorities and countries at the time, I think you'd have to search a while to find a Christian who would want it banned now.
The right of people to mock, lampoon and satirise religion - be it Christianity, Islam or even the lack of it in Atheism (As SeanT did in his blog) is something that is fundamentally British I feel.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
Richard Nabavi [9.51am] The shameful systematic electoral pro-Labour bias of smaller constituency sizes in safe Labour areas will of course remain
I presume you regard the USA as undemocratic because of the way Senators are elected?
More seriously, how would you suggest the Coalition remedy it?
I don't see why all MPs have to have exactly one vote each. Let constituencies be based on historical boundaries (or ones that people can relate to in some other "real-world" way) and let the MP have as many votes in the House as they have constituents who voted for them.
Of course, this would require the Party apparatuses to work flat out in all seats, so it's hardly like to appeal to them...
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
One poster yesterday called anyone who would vote against what he regards as the right way in the Scottish referendum as "insane".
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
Indeed. Although arguably in common parlance to call someone "insane" is not necessarily the same as saying they are mentally ill!
But I have just politely asked Richard not to use an offensive term. I don't think that is unreasonable.
On religion I’d personally make a distinction between the ‘believers’ and the ‘behavers’. The ‘behavers’ I’d describe as those loosely compliant with their religion’s tenets and who occasionally attend but generally aren’t devout. When Christian they try to be nice, help at church fairs etc. Whether or not they actually believe in God is debatable. Behavers are easy to accept and get along with and their religion is inoffensive, unobtrusive and greatly beneficial to society.
It’s the true Believers that are the more dangerous ones. Their whole world view is shaped through the lens of that belief and simple facts or opposing beliefs pose a threat to their belief system – and they don’t always react well to this. I’d put the US Christian evangelist/creationist lot and Islamic fundamentalists in this category.
I think the ratio of Believers to Behavers in Islam is a lot higher than Christianity – they haven’t had their Enlightenment yet.
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
One poster yesterday called anyone who would vote against what he regards as the right way in the Scottish referendum as "insane".
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
Really? You think a battle of the quotes stacking up what the PB tories have said is very wise do you? I'd be fine with that particularly after some of the ludicrously naive posts already about what has and hasn't been posted on here. Nothing ringing a bell about any PB tories posting endlessly on who is or is not "insane"? No? Try thinking harder.
Oh and at least have the decency to wait till that poster you refer to comes on later to defend his own views as I'm sure he will.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
The 'God' of the abrahamic religions has a few names though... Yahweh, Allah, God - which one is it ?
Simon Heffer's Newsnight piece on Conservative Party membership decline. Starts 2 mins into programme. One suggestion in the discussion part is that the decline in door-to-door campaigning, by all parties, contributes to the decline in turnout.
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
The 'God' of the abrahamic religions has a few names though... Yahweh, Allah, God - which one is it ?
My understanding - although not a philologist - those are all translations of the term "God". Christos and its derivatives, as well as Son of Man, are titles rather than names. Terms like "I Am Who I Am" are just messing with you ;-)
It's my view that in general one's religion is an accident of when and where they were born !
Similarly, one day - hopefully a long-time in the future - the last human being will die. At the very latest, our sun will be extinguished, and with that *poof* goes the last person.
And with that, all vestiges of religion will be gone.
Does God exist, if there is no one to believe in him?
On topic, we should separate the instance from the trend. Is this the start of a trend? I have my doubts.
You are right to strike a note of caution about trend analysis. I would make a couple of other points.
1. The general election opinion poll certainty to vote figures were 74% for the Conservatives and 66% for Labour, which compares with the election turnout of 65.1%. While it is possible that turnout for all other voters was down at the ~50-55% necessary to reconcile these figures, it is perhaps more likely that people in general over-estimate their likelihood to vote. If Labour voters are more likely to do so this has the potential to introduce error.
2. A greater certainty to vote by Labour supporters will help a bit in the marginals, perhaps, but the largest impact is likely to be racking up larger majorities in safe Labour seats, which would tend to reduce the efficiency of Labour's vote distribution, and not help them win a majority in seats - though it does make the scenario of Labour most seats & Conservatives most votes less likely, which would be helpful for Labour in any post-election coalition negotiations.
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
I'm not sure it is religion per se, so much as religious-ethnic-cultural divides. Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilisations is still worth reading if you ignore the last chapter (where he posits that the decline in Western hegemony is the result of the increased acceptance of homosexuality undermines our cultural unity)
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
The most telling thing about that chart is even after all the damage Brown and Darling had done to the economy the labour 'certain to vote' still shoots up before the election as does the tory one. (I'm wondering what caused the steep drop for labour before that rise and there's another spike and drop in roughly July 08)
The gap between the tories and labour remains pretty constant during the steep pre-election jump so it's probably safe to presume by that time (roughly 6 months before an election) whatever the gap is will remain pretty much the same come 2015 as well.
I've had an idea for a betting market for the GE - a kind of VIX index - a market on the number of seats changing hands - bands of say 20 between 0 and 160.
1997 would be high, 2001 low etc - punters of all party allegiance could bet on the same outcomes.
Don't worry. There will be betting markets on the total number of seats changing hands. This is one of my favourite and historically profitable bets.
Another interesting point to note is that religious wars/tension are in general caused when two religions/factions of religion are close to one another.
Blair holds secret talks with Gove to urge him to fight on with radical schools reforms http://bit.ly/1cTbz3A #schools
Turns out the supposed radical right winger is indeed nothing more than a bog-standard Blairite doing what "the Master" tells him.
Wait till that devastating lib dem 'differentiation' kicks in, then Gove won't know what hit him. Though of course nor will anyone else since it won't work.
Negative retail sales data from the Eurozone: December sales dropped 1.6% (on a seasonally adjusted) basis. The weakest countries were Portugal, Spain and (somewhat surprisingly) Germany, where they fell 2.5%. Perhaps unsurprisingly, Ireland was the top Eurozone performer, and pretty much the only EZ country to show significant volume increases (+1.4%).
Turns out the supposed radical right winger is indeed nothing more than a bog-standard Blairite doing what "the Master" tells him.
Turns out both of them see that education needs a serious shake up. The difference was that Blair let the Blob tendency in his own party overwhelm him and he ultimately chickened out of his own good ideas - whereas Gove only has an external enemy to confront here and seems to relish the challenge. They're both right.
Are Survation desperate for work? I can't imagine any other reason why they would risk trashing their own reputation by putting their name to a poll as full of leading questions as this:
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Turns out the supposed radical right winger is indeed nothing more than a bog-standard Blairite doing what "the Master" tells him.
Turns out both of them see that education needs a serious shake up. The difference was that Blair let the Blob tendency in his own party overwhelm him and he ultimately chickened out of his own good ideas - whereas Gove only has an external enemy to confront here and seems to relish the challenge. They're both right.
Rubbish. Blair had a huge majority to start with and he still had a perfectly workable one in 2005. All this twaddle about him somehow belatedly realising he should have done more is simply a not very subtle attack on Brown (that's a shocker and no mistake) and now the same thing aimed at Miliband while trying to rally the Blairites in little Ed's shadow cabinet.
Will it annoy little Ed? Quite possibly but he and the remaining Blairites were already busy trying to push union reforms Blair did not so he won't be that worried.
Fact is Blair could have went as far as he wanted on school reforms with very big majorities. He marched the labour party through the aye lobby for Iraq so let's not pretend this after the fact spin from Blair is either very believable or not primarily yet another swift kick aimed at the current labour leadership.
It certainly proves Gove is a bog-standard Blairite because far from reaching for any tory standard-bearers on the right he predictably seeks out Blair and jumps to his tune. Yet again.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
I guess they didn't give the right warning. 10 years ago it was all we were going to fry under baking suns if we didn't drown from rising sea levels.
Are Survation desperate for work? I can't imagine any other reason why they would risk trashing their own reputation by putting their name to a poll as full of leading questions as this:
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
In the Jargon "mitigation" is reducing the amount of global warming by reducing emissions and "adaptation" is adapting to the impacts of global warming, either instead of attempting to avoid them, or to a more limited extent because it is impossible to avoid all impacts due to historical emissions.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Hmmm. It would be interesting for you to back that assertion up by showing when the Dawlish seawall has been breached in the past. ISTR it happens every so often - as far back as 1840, 1855 and 1859. In civil engineering terms, it is hard to maintain a trackbed that has been built into the sea, as opposed to cut away from firm rock on the land. It certainly happened in the 1980s when I was a kid - there was a newspaper article of someone running along the adjacent footpath and stopping an HST just in time.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
In that case I am afraid I have no sympathy for your position. First you ascribe to me a comment I did not make or even imply. Then you claim you think it is okay to criticise religion but not individuals (which I would agree with) and then you moan because I am making derogatory comments about religion.
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
In the Jargon "mitigation" is reducing the amount of global warming by reducing emissions and "adaptation" is adapting to the impacts of global warming, either instead of attempting to avoid them, or to a more limited extent because it is impossible to avoid all impacts due to historical emissions.
You think there's any useful Jargon to describe tories who unaccountably keep forgetting Cammie is fully signed up to the science of climate change? 'Tiny windmillism' perhaps?
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Precisely.
(And just to annoy the Kipper tendency on here, why don't we use the DfID budget for things like flood defences in Bangladesh?)
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
In that case I am afraid I have no sympathy for your position. First you ascribe to me a comment I did not make or even imply. Then you claim you think it is okay to criticise religion but not individuals (which I would agree with) and then you moan because I am making derogatory comments about religion.
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
Because I have asked you politely not to use a term that I find offensive.
Richard, I think you are a pretty decent guy, so let's make a deal.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Sorry but no. I view religion in the same way that many people view opposing political views - except I consider it more dangerous and insidious. If you were to ask people on here never to ridicule other's political beliefs you would get very short shrift.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
One poster yesterday called anyone who would vote against what he regards as the right way in the Scottish referendum as "insane".
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
David, you are a real plonker, you trying to ridicule me and holding me in contempt would be seen as a badge of honour. Typical big jessie Tory to try and make something out of nothing. AS you are so dumb , it was a figure of speech that anyone with the intelligence of a 5 year old or above would have understood. Obviously you are not out of nursery school yet.
Of all the questions that the public lie about when asked by opinion pollsters, this must be top of the list.
I'm very interested in politics. I have never missed an opportunity to vote (though I have once spoiled my ballot paper). With over a year to go before the next election, I would not be sufficiently confident that I would be 10/10 certain to vote. Nor do I see how anyone else could claim to be either.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
In that case I am afraid I have no sympathy for your position. First you ascribe to me a comment I did not make or even imply. Then you claim you think it is okay to criticise religion but not individuals (which I would agree with) and then you moan because I am making derogatory comments about religion.
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
Because I have asked you politely not to use a term that I find offensive.
Of course you can carry on using it if you want.
But that says a huge amount about you.
Given that I find the whole concept of religion offensive I am afraid you are going to get no where with that argument.
I concur entirely. Someone making a film called Life of Abdul would probably have to spend the rest of their life in hiding. Politicians (and the media) are failing to stand up for freedom of speech in a major way.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Precisely.
(And just to annoy the Kipper tendency on here, why don't we use the DfID budget for things like flood defences in Bangladesh?)
From memory (and it must have been 20 years since I was at the talk), Bangladesh is very difficult to stop flooding due to its low-lying nature - the vast majority of the country is floodplain, and lies only a few metres above sea level. It also contains the delta for the Ganges.
In addition, ISTR the rice paddies require regular flooding, but I might be wrong on that,
Basically, it is massively difficult to do, either from fresh or salt water.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
So we now have South Devon, Cornwall and the Cambrian Coast all without any rail services following the recent storms. Dawlish is clearly going to take some while to repair. As a guide, much of the Cambrian Coast railway is going to be closed until late Spring even if repairs go to schedule.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
Apparently the sea wall there is supposed to withstand a one in a hundred years storm, but it was breached in 2004, so perhaps intense storms are becoming more frequent, or less intense storms are able to breach the sea wall now that sea levels are higher.
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Indeed. When people talk about preferring mitigation of climate change over reducing emissions, this is exactly the sort of thing that we should have been focussing on.
Since mitigation (or rather adjustment) will actually help people whilst reducing emissions will have no effect what so ever there is a simple logic to the position which clearly you are not able to grasp.
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
In that case I am afraid I have no sympathy for your position. First you ascribe to me a comment I did not make or even imply. Then you claim you think it is okay to criticise religion but not individuals (which I would agree with) and then you moan because I am making derogatory comments about religion.
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
Because I have asked you politely not to use a term that I find offensive.
Of course you can carry on using it if you want.
But that says a huge amount about you.
Personally, I think one of the most pernicious modern attitudes is the belief that any comment or opinion should be withheld, withdrawn or apologised for if someone finds it offensive. It's deeply undemocratic and deeply authoritarian. We might as well go back 400 years to the days of those challenging authority being branded heretics and blasphemers, or to certain states where a chellenge is denounces as subversive and treacherous.
If we withdraw all that some find offensive then we simply give the censor's pen to the most extreme.
I'm still laughing at the cybernat article, I was going to label it #Bathgate but then I remembered that's actually located in Scotland ..... unlike the Rev Campbell.
Mr. Jessop, at school I recall studying a plan to resolve Bangaldesh's constant flooding. It involved a huge number of massive stone dykes, I believe. There were only a small number of minor flaws: 1) It would cost an unaffordable amount 2) It would require lots of stone (Bangladesh doesn't have any) 3) It would take a very long time to do 4) It might not work
You are perfectly entitle to ridicule and criticise religious beliefs.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
Show me exactly where I called believers mentally ill or please shut up.
That's why I put [mentally] in square brackets it was an interpretation on the basis that a belief couldn't be a physical illness.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
In that case I am afraid I have no sympathy for your position. First you ascribe to me a comment I did not make or even imply. Then you claim you think it is okay to criticise religion but not individuals (which I would agree with) and then you moan because I am making derogatory comments about religion.
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
Because I have asked you politely not to use a term that I find offensive.
Of course you can carry on using it if you want.
But that says a huge amount about you.
Personally, I think one of the most pernicious modern attitudes is the belief that any comment or opinion should be withheld, withdrawn or apologised for if someone finds it offensive. It's deeply undemocratic and deeply authoritarian. We might as well go back 400 years to the days of those challenging authority being branded heretics and blasphemers, or to certain states where a chellenge is denounces as subversive and treacherous.
If we withdraw all that some find offensive then we simply give the censor's pen to the most extreme.
"We might as well go back 400 years to the days of those challenging authority being branded heretics and blasphemers,"
Given that I find the whole concept of religion offensive I am afraid you are going to get no where with that argument.
There is clearly no point in discussing with you further because you are a self-righteous [Moderated]
I am sure that OGH will delete this post - quite reasonably - because it is offensive to call you names. I would ask that you don't use offensive terms to describe my God.
That said, I've found my atheism mellowing significantly over time. I probably shared Mr. Tyndall's view some years ago, but now (so long as the beliefs of others don't infringe upon me or the rights of others) then I generally don't care.
Personally, I think one of the most pernicious modern attitudes is the belief that any comment or opinion should be withheld, withdrawn or apologised for if someone finds it offensive. It's deeply undemocratic and deeply authoritarian. We might as well go back 400 years to the days of those challenging authority being branded heretics and blasphemers, or to certain states where a chellenge is denounces as subversive and treacherous.
If we withdraw all that some find offensive then we simply give the censor's pen to the most extreme.
Indeed. But I'm not preventing him from holding his beliefs. I'm just asking him not to engage derogatory name calling.
If he wants to have a reasonable argument as to why it is futile and pointless to believe in God, whether Christian or not, then bring it on. (Although ultimately it comes down to faith so I doubt it will shed much light as a discussion)
Given that I find the whole concept of religion offensive I am afraid you are going to get no where with that argument.
There is clearly no point in discussing with you further because you are a self-righteous [Moderated]
I am sure that OGH will delete this post - quite reasonably - because it is offensive to call you names. I would ask that you don't use offensive terms to describe my God.
I don't mind you calling me that at all Charles. Though I would point out that 'self-righteous' is probably a description more accurately ascribed to yourself given your ability to take offence simply because someone challenges your myth cycle.
I will wait for the cease and desist letter from your god before I start worrying about offending her.
Mr. Jessop, at school I recall studying a plan to resolve Bangaldesh's constant flooding. It involved a huge number of massive stone dykes, I believe. There were only a small number of minor flaws: 1) It would cost an unaffordable amount 2) It would require lots of stone (Bangladesh doesn't have any) 3) It would take a very long time to do 4) It might not work
Reminds me of this Red Dwarf moment!
The Cat: Why don't we drop the defensive shields? Kryten: A superlative suggestion, sir. With just two minor flaws. One, we don't have any defensive shields. And two, we don't have any defensive shields. Now I realise that technically speaking that's only one flaw but I thought that it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.
Incredible pictures from Dawlish - I suspect this time the mainline will be closed for a long time. It's a unique stretch of line and a big part of the train travelling experience from London to Penzance (something I used to do a lot in the 90s) and has always been vulnerable to winter disruption.
I'm still laughing at even the Mail piling in to the latest kipper fruitcake. (Well, Battenberg, but almost)
Ukip MEP calls for Muslim code of conduct: Fresh controversy after senior figure says members of religion should be made to sign document saying they reject violence
Gerard Batten slammed for comments that 'overlap with the far-Right'
He claims he co-authored the document with friend who is an Islamic scholar
But his comments look likely to heap embarrassment on his party
If Labour voters are more likely to turn out than previously it could well boost the party's vote in its safe seats. While not making a huge difference to the overall result, what it may well do - if it happens - is to make it more likely that Labour gets most votes and most seats in a hung Parliament, as opposed to the oft-discussed possibility of Labour getting most seats but the Tories getting most votes. That has betting implications, of course, but it may also have a major affect on LD thinking in terms of coalition partner, going into opposition etc.
Given that I find the whole concept of religion offensive I am afraid you are going to get no where with that argument.
There is clearly no point in discussing with you further because you are a self-righteous arsehole.
I am sure that OGH will delete this post - quite reasonably - because it is offensive to call you names. I would ask that you don't use offensive terms to describe my God.
I don't mind you calling me that at all Charles. Though I would point out that 'self-righteous' is probably a description more accurately ascribed to yourself given your ability to take offence simply because someone challenges your myth cycle.
I will wait for the cease and desist letter from your god before I start worrying about offending her.
As I've said, I don't care you challenging my beliefs. I just ask you extend a basic courtesy of using someone's proper name or title.
Comments
Germany was slightly behind expectations, coming out at 53.1, which is a slight slowdown from December's 53.6.
Overall Eurozone composite PMI showed a continued, albeit tepid, recovery - the figure of 52.9 was marginally behind December's 53.2 but still showed economic expansion.
Broadly: the periphery (Ireland and Spain) is improving; Germany is weaker than expected; while France and Italy might be pulling themselves off the floor, but we probably need a few more months results before getting more optimistic.
I am slightly disappointed he announced it as I thought I had an inside line through our friendship on Facebook and I was going to surprise him this morning :-)
Anyway, also in answer to Nick (since he referenced me specifically) regarding Batten's 'Charter' comments.
I am in a slightly strange position with this one and probably not representative of anyone else's views except my own. Since I am quite vehemently atheist and think all beliefs in the Middle Eastern Sky Fairies are probably a sign of some underlying illness in society I am pretty happy with anything that marginalizes religion in the modern world. Of course I would not impose that view on anyone else but since Batten's proposal was apparently for something voluntary - something that allowed but did not force people to proclaim their opposition to extremism - I do not see anything really wrong with it in principle.
In practice it is probably a stupid and unworkable idea since of course it would be used as a stick to beat those individuals and organisations who for whatever reason (some perfectly reasonable) chose not to sign up.
So I would not attack Batten for proposing it - I do not believe there is anything morally or philosophically wrong with the idea. But I would criticise him for not having thought through what it would mean in practice and how much division it could potentially sow between groups who are otherwise moderate in their views. .
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister
More likely, Miliband has been throwing his base some red meat in the form of raising taxes on other people and they like that.
I won't call you names if you don't belittle my beliefs. I find references to "sky fairies" and "[mental] illnesses" really rather offensive. I don't expect to to share my views, but I do think it is reasonable to respect the fact that I hold them genuinely and in good faith.
Cheers.
Mike, you'll just have to content yourself with another Con/LibDem coalition and a peerage for political services a few years down the line.
Lord Smithson of Bedford has a certain elegance to it.
Does this make me a bad person?
On a less vicious note, it's the same 'sensitivity' (aided by political cowardice) that means we almost have a de facto blasphemy law when it comes to Islam/Mohammed.
I make a point of not actually naming individuals in my comments but I certainly would not agree to religion of any kind being off limits for ridicule and criticism. By the way my mother is a devout Catholic and I do understand therefore that people hold these beliefs genuinely and in good faith. I just happen to believe they are utterly wrong and detrimental to both society and the individual.
For instance the SNP MSP Monsieur Allain is a directl slot-in replacement for a deceased North-East list MSP - http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-parliament-s-first-french-msp-sworn-in-1-2930881
Of course this does not work if a single independent MSP dies - but I suppose this is not unjust as they have no party to complain about being hard done by. Presumably they have an election.
A Labour Minority Gov't is still my view whilst the very best the Conservatives can hope for a continuation of the coalition. I am still ruling out a Conservative Majority.
One's reminded of Churchill's assessment of appeasement: an appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
But that's not the same as calling believers names.
I would call you out if you called Labour supporters "mentally ill" or "Leftards" for instance. (And I suspect OGH would intervene pretty fast).
1997 would be high, 2001 low etc - punters of all party allegiance could bet on the same outcomes.
Maybe in 2015 we’ll see higher turnouts and votes for Labour. In their heartlands it will make zero difference to MPS. But if this impending rise in turnout applies also to marginals then they’ll win by a big margin.
It's a view, one he's perfectly entitled to and one that should be ridiculed and held in contempt.
I don't think it makes sense to treat all religious practices alike but I appreciate that if one has a devout Catholic mother the temptation is probably irresistible.
Looking at the above graph, the current figures are the eighth time that Labour's 'certainty to vote' figures have topped the Tory ones since the election - or put another way, on seven occasions, the Tories have recovered the lead. Will this time be any different.
In fact, the medium-term trend is for *both* major parties' figures to show a slow decline, from around 67% in late 2010 to about 60% now, with both wobbling about 3% either side of that trend line. I don't think these latest figures are any more significant that those from late 2013 which gave the Conservatives a brief lead.
Also it shows the continued decline in solid support since the GE, notwithstanding the Labour surge from the LD defections.
Similar graphs for UKIP and the LDs would be interesting as would be also for the SNP (Scotland and Westminster elections).
It is one area of this country where I feel we are going backwards. The Life of Brian is arguably one of Britain's greatest comedies, banned by several local authorities and countries at the time, I think you'd have to search a while to find a Christian who would want it banned now.
The right of people to mock, lampoon and satirise religion - be it Christianity, Islam or even the lack of it in Atheism (As SeanT did in his blog) is something that is fundamentally British I feel.
It's actually "Sky Fairy" that I find insulting. I am not a Hindu or a Buddist, for instance, but I would refer to their gods by their chosen name. It is just a question of common courtesy.
I presume you regard the USA as undemocratic because of the way Senators are elected?
More seriously, how would you suggest the Coalition remedy it?
I don't see why all MPs have to have exactly one vote each. Let constituencies be based on historical boundaries (or ones that people can relate to in some other "real-world" way) and let the MP have as many votes in the House as they have constituents who voted for them.
Of course, this would require the Party apparatuses to work flat out in all seats, so it's hardly like to appeal to them...
But I have just politely asked Richard not to use an offensive term. I don't think that is unreasonable.
It’s the true Believers that are the more dangerous ones. Their whole world view is shaped through the lens of that belief and simple facts or opposing beliefs pose a threat to their belief system – and they don’t always react well to this. I’d put the US Christian evangelist/creationist lot and Islamic fundamentalists in this category.
I think the ratio of Believers to Behavers in Islam is a lot higher than Christianity – they haven’t had their Enlightenment yet.
Then worst of all are, of course, the Beliebers!
You think a battle of the quotes stacking up what the PB tories have said is very wise do you? I'd be fine with that particularly after some of the ludicrously naive posts already about what has and hasn't been posted on here. Nothing ringing a bell about any PB tories posting endlessly on who is or is not "insane"? No? Try thinking harder.
Oh and at least have the decency to wait till that poster you refer to comes on later to defend his own views as I'm sure he will.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03trt4y/Newsnight_04_02_2014/
Islam/Christianity
Protestants/Catholics
Sunni/Shia
And with that, all vestiges of religion will be gone.
Does God exist, if there is no one to believe in him?
1. The general election opinion poll certainty to vote figures were 74% for the Conservatives and 66% for Labour, which compares with the election turnout of 65.1%. While it is possible that turnout for all other voters was down at the ~50-55% necessary to reconcile these figures, it is perhaps more likely that people in general over-estimate their likelihood to vote. If Labour voters are more likely to do so this has the potential to introduce error.
2. A greater certainty to vote by Labour supporters will help a bit in the marginals, perhaps, but the largest impact is likely to be racking up larger majorities in safe Labour seats, which would tend to reduce the efficiency of Labour's vote distribution, and not help them win a majority in seats - though it does make the scenario of Labour most seats & Conservatives most votes less likely, which would be helpful for Labour in any post-election coalition negotiations.
The most telling thing about that chart is even after all the damage Brown and Darling had done to the economy the labour 'certain to vote' still shoots up before the election as does the tory one. (I'm wondering what caused the steep drop for labour before that rise and there's another spike and drop in roughly July 08)
The gap between the tories and labour remains pretty constant during the steep pre-election jump so it's probably safe to presume by that time (roughly 6 months before an election) whatever the gap is will remain pretty much the same come 2015 as well.
Wait till that devastating lib dem 'differentiation' kicks in, then Gove won't know what hit him. Though of course nor will anyone else since it won't work.
Turns out both of them see that education needs a serious shake up. The difference was that Blair let the Blob tendency in his own party overwhelm him and he ultimately chickened out of his own good ideas - whereas Gove only has an external enemy to confront here and seems to relish the challenge. They're both right.
Today.
We can't say that we didn't see this coming. Has any work on an alternative route for the train line been done?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/sorry-rmt-theres-no-proof-the-public-support-the-tube-strikes/
Like I said, people did warn this sort of thing would happen.
Will it annoy little Ed? Quite possibly but he and the remaining Blairites were already busy trying to push union reforms Blair did not so he won't be that worried.
Fact is Blair could have went as far as he wanted on school reforms with very big majorities. He marched the labour party through the aye lobby for Iraq so let's not pretend this after the fact spin from Blair is either very believable or not primarily yet another swift kick aimed at the current labour leadership.
It certainly proves Gove is a bog-standard Blairite because far from reaching for any tory standard-bearers on the right he predictably seeks out Blair and jumps to his tune. Yet again.
http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Sea Wall Guide/SWhistory.html
Those pesky Victorians and their global warming!
It seems to me that some pro-AGW folks are seeing patterns where there may not be any ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Devon_Railway_sea_wall#Maintenance_and_the_future
I do not accept that religion should not be open to ridicule for the simple fact that it is ridiculous. Middle Eastern Sky Fairy belief is a perfectly good (if derisory) description of the organised monotheistic religions and I see no reason at all not to continue using it.
(And just to annoy the Kipper tendency on here, why don't we use the DfID budget for things like flood defences in Bangladesh?)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10618989/Exclusive-Labours-Wythenshawe-and-Sale-East-candidate-wanted-David-Miliband-to-be-leader.html
Of course you can carry on using it if you want.
But that says a huge amount about you.
AS you are so dumb , it was a figure of speech that anyone with the intelligence of a 5 year old or above would have understood. Obviously you are not out of nursery school yet.
I'm very interested in politics. I have never missed an opportunity to vote (though I have once spoiled my ballot paper). With over a year to go before the next election, I would not be sufficiently confident that I would be 10/10 certain to vote. Nor do I see how anyone else could claim to be either.
I concur entirely. Someone making a film called Life of Abdul would probably have to spend the rest of their life in hiding. Politicians (and the media) are failing to stand up for freedom of speech in a major way.
In addition, ISTR the rice paddies require regular flooding, but I might be wrong on that,
Basically, it is massively difficult to do, either from fresh or salt water.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100258140/sally-bercows-latest-scandal-means-john-bercow-has-to-go/
Yet all that the political establishment cares about is HS2. Although it now looks as though Labour is going to do its best to scupper further legislation before May 2015.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10618108/HS2-Labour-could-delay-law-to-kill-off-42bn-scheme.html
It would explain much.
If we withdraw all that some find offensive then we simply give the censor's pen to the most extreme.
1) It would cost an unaffordable amount
2) It would require lots of stone (Bangladesh doesn't have any)
3) It would take a very long time to do
4) It might not work
Or fruitcakes, or racists
I am sure that OGH will delete this post - quite reasonably - because it is offensive to call you names. I would ask that you don't use offensive terms to describe my God.
That said, I've found my atheism mellowing significantly over time. I probably shared Mr. Tyndall's view some years ago, but now (so long as the beliefs of others don't infringe upon me or the rights of others) then I generally don't care.
If he wants to have a reasonable argument as to why it is futile and pointless to believe in God, whether Christian or not, then bring it on. (Although ultimately it comes down to faith so I doubt it will shed much light as a discussion)
I will wait for the cease and desist letter from your god before I start worrying about offending her.
Incredible pictures from Dawlish - I suspect this time the mainline will be closed for a long time. It's a unique stretch of line and a big part of the train travelling experience from London to Penzance (something I used to do a lot in the 90s) and has always been vulnerable to winter disruption.
I fear this may not be the end of the storms.
*chortle*