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Latest general election most seats betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    As a Donny lad myself, I still chuckle at the idea of Doncaster being a 'city'. I know it technically is now, but it's the towniest city imaginable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited April 2023

    Sunak’s mate Richard Sharp resigns.

    Oh dear, that's such a shame.
    So the balance has shifted left again...
    Sharp has resigned because he is found to have "inadvertently" (his defence) failed to disclose relevant potential conflicts of interest to the appointment panel. The Inquiry is not persuaded by his defence.

    So, a shift away from dodgy appointments rather than a shift to the left, I think you'll find.
    Indeed, all he had to do was follow the rules and not be an idiot about it. Is a failure to do that a right wing thing? I don't think it is, that's a rather pessimistic view of the right.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    'Only' 800 EU laws being repealed, what a ridiculous complaint. Things take time, and clearly they are working on it. Such a stupid promise to have made.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    Cookie said:

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
    Boris treated the trappings of power as a personal plaything Trump fashion, without any respect for balance or checks and balances on power - that’s the bottom line here.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    His decision to suspend Lineker was breathtakingly stupid, and the outcome entirely foreseeable.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,662
    Another week, another Sunak ally bites the dust.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Cookie said:

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
    Maybe they could have appointed someone who understood very basic concepts about openess and conflicts and they'd still be there?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    rkrkrk said:

    Selebian said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Great article from John Burn Murdoch setting out some figures on health service.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0fe5dcc-3797-4796-a19e-a2ee6c1b7be9

    JBM is that rare thing - a data cruncher in the mainstream media who apparently prefers to get the truth rather than a desired answer and also seems to know what he's doing.

    To avoid paywall, without 12ft.io or similar, if you click through from Google search on headline, the FT lets you in:
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Pay+rises+alone+will+not+stem+the+flow+of+Britain’s+medics
    He's definitely worth reading. FT weekend edition is best journalism out there at the moment i think.
    Yes it is, and on the rare weekends when I know I'll have a bit of sitting-down time I'll grab a copy from the newsagent. I still enjoy spreading the big broadsheet format out over the table and whatnot.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    malcolmg said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Platinum Jubilee numbers were:

    8.7 million watched the trooping of the colour
    13.4 million watched Party at the Palace
    16.75 million took part in a community event

    So about one in four of the population.

    It's a plurality because they were the most popular/watched TV shows at the time, and more people were celebrating than doing any other one activity - even if not an absolute majority of the population. Many more caught highlights later. There would also have been school and other institutional celebrations as well, as well as private ones that did not show up in the figures. All in all I suspect a third of the population did something.

    I expect viewing numbers for the Coronation to be similar and about 10 million+ to watch it live, and a higher number on highlights later.

    That’d be my guess too. Lots will probably just put it on in the background or whatever. Plenty of people who are not football fans still put the World Cup on. Similarly a lot of folk generally disinterested in royalty may well just flick it on out of a sense of curiosity or it’s-a-historic-event sort of thing.

    Whatever the actual viewing figures, I’m sure there’ll be plenty for all sides to interpret in whichever way fits their pre-existing views :)
    The only thing I did for the world cup was flip on the last 30 minutes of the Final, when England were in it.

    I otherwise never touch, watch or read about football and simply ignore anyone who does.
    I will not watch 1 second of the parasite crowning.
    Excitement really beginning to build now.

    If you change your mind, Trafalgar Square is the best place to stand I think. See you there!

    https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/12/best-places-to-watch-king-charles-iiis-coronation-procession-as-route-revealed-18592718/#:~:text=Trafalgar Square/Whitehall,way back to Buckingham Palace.

    https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/27/coronation-big-screens-around-london-to-watch-the-event-for-free-18662559/

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Jonathan said:

    Another week, another Sunak ally bites the dust.

    Or alternatively, another week another senior conservative steps down without the PM choosing factional idiocy to save them against what is the morally correct decision unlike under Johnson.

    Has Diane Abbot resigned yet?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    malcolmg said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Platinum Jubilee numbers were:

    8.7 million watched the trooping of the colour
    13.4 million watched Party at the Palace
    16.75 million took part in a community event

    So about one in four of the population.

    It's a plurality because they were the most popular/watched TV shows at the time, and more people were celebrating than doing any other one activity - even if not an absolute majority of the population. Many more caught highlights later. There would also have been school and other institutional celebrations as well, as well as private ones that did not show up in the figures. All in all I suspect a third of the population did something.

    I expect viewing numbers for the Coronation to be similar and about 10 million+ to watch it live, and a higher number on highlights later.

    That’d be my guess too. Lots will probably just put it on in the background or whatever. Plenty of people who are not football fans still put the World Cup on. Similarly a lot of folk generally disinterested in royalty may well just flick it on out of a sense of curiosity or it’s-a-historic-event sort of thing.

    Whatever the actual viewing figures, I’m sure there’ll be plenty for all sides to interpret in whichever way fits their pre-existing views :)
    The only thing I did for the world cup was flip on the last 30 minutes of the Final, when England were in it.

    I otherwise never touch, watch or read about football and simply ignore anyone who does.
    I will not watch 1 second of the parasite crowning.
    Morning Malc. You will have your union flag bunting out though, right? :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited April 2023
    Biden (D) 44%
    Trump (I) 23%
    DeSantis (R) 22%

    Ipsos

    https://twitter.com/ElectsWorld/status/1651674763692064769?s=20
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Jonathan said:

    Another week, another Sunak ally bites the dust.

    No doubt to be replaced by another card-carrying Tory placeman. And after months and months of prevarication in the face of facts that are no different to those revealed long ago by the Times. What took Sunak so long?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    Corrupt BBC Chair resigns whilst claiming he did nothing wrong, classic. Not even an admission that even if it was inadvertent what he did was titanically stupid, since a child understands issues of potential conflict better than he did apparently.

    Fully agree, except that there was nothing "potential" about it.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Cookie said:

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
    To be fair, this is how the wrong do, not the right.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    A nontrivial proportion of self-declared Christians neither attend church nor believe in God. So the actual Christian populations of the cities listed above will be rather lower.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    Corbyn's legacy, unless you are BJO, in which case the scale of the defeat was down to anyone bar Corbyn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    It's the distinction between cities that are cities because of the cathedral, and cities that are cities because they're too big to be towns, I would think?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    If the God of Largin’ It was the metric, Brighton, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle and London would be at the top.
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @severincarrell
    BREAKING Number 10 on brink of cancelling a Scottish press briefing with PM @RishiSunak in Glasgow - the first time a PM refuses to meet Scottish newspaper reporters 1/3

    Number 10 tried to handpick 6 reporters from centre-right papers & @PA - @ScotParlJournos, including six invited titles, refuse to comply & insist all reporters have access 2/3

    After TV reporters ask for one question to Sunak about Sharp resignation, No 10 demand TV cameras leave to do Sharp clip later. They then threaten to cancel press briefing entirely 3/3
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @severincarrell

    All Scottish media now refusing No 10’s insistence only pooled clip allowed


    Hiding in a fridge?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
    Maybe they could have appointed someone who understood very basic concepts about openess and conflicts and they'd still be there?
    Yes, Sharp (educated Merchant Taylor's School, fees £24k pa) is quitting because he forgot to mention how he helped Johnson (Eton, fees £46K pa) borrow 800k from Sam Blyth (Uppingham, fees £45k pa).

    If he had just been given the job as a reward for giving £400k to the Conservative Party it would have been fine.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Dennynews

    Rishi Sunak still hasn’t turned up to a pre-planned media huddle in Glasgow.

    His team is claiming the PM can only do one broadcast clip and take no other questions.

    This is a total shambles.

    And his government accuses the SNP of secrecy?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell

    All Scottish media now refusing No 10’s insistence only pooled clip allowed


    Hiding in a fridge?

    Counter top fridge tbf..
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    kamski said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Tim Davie, director-general of the BBC, said: "On behalf of the BBC Executive, I would like to thank Richard for his service to the BBC and the drive and intellect he brought to his time as chairman.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1651878868129644544?s=20

    Hopefully, he’ll be next out the door.
    You mean 2-0 to Lineker?
    If this is how well the right do with the national broadcaster while the Tories are in power, God knows what the BBC will be like when they lose.
    Maybe they could have appointed someone who understood very basic concepts about openess and conflicts and they'd still be there?
    Yes, Sharp (educated Merchant Taylor's School, fees £14k pa) is quitting because he forgot to mention how he helped Johnson (Eton, fees £46K pa) borrow 800k from Sam Blyth (Uppingham, fees £45k pa).

    If he had just been given the job as a reward for giving £400k to the Conservative Party it would have been fine.
    The stench of entitlement around these people is hard to ignore. They've been in power for too long.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Looks like the stroppy hacks were the only ones there


  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell
    BREAKING Number 10 on brink of cancelling a Scottish press briefing with PM @RishiSunak in Glasgow - the first time a PM refuses to meet Scottish newspaper reporters 1/3

    Number 10 tried to handpick 6 reporters from centre-right papers & @PA - @ScotParlJournos, including six invited titles, refuse to comply & insist all reporters have access 2/3

    After TV reporters ask for one question to Sunak about Sharp resignation, No 10 demand TV cameras leave to do Sharp clip later. They then threaten to cancel press briefing entirely 3/3

    Pathetic. What is Sunak afraid of?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell

    All Scottish media now refusing No 10’s insistence only pooled clip allowed


    Hiding in a fridge?

    Well, he's chilling out instead of meeting the press.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell
    BREAKING Number 10 on brink of cancelling a Scottish press briefing with PM @RishiSunak in Glasgow - the first time a PM refuses to meet Scottish newspaper reporters 1/3

    Number 10 tried to handpick 6 reporters from centre-right papers & @PA - @ScotParlJournos, including six invited titles, refuse to comply & insist all reporters have access 2/3

    After TV reporters ask for one question to Sunak about Sharp resignation, No 10 demand TV cameras leave to do Sharp clip later. They then threaten to cancel press briefing entirely 3/3

    Pathetic. What is Sunak afraid of?
    He's not like Johnson. He's freezing them out.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208


    kle4 said:

    Corrupt BBC Chair resigns whilst claiming he did nothing wrong, classic. Not even an admission that even if it was inadvertent what he did was titanically stupid, since a child understands issues of potential conflict better than he did apparently.

    Fully agree, except that there was nothing "potential" about it.
    I'm required by my work to do training on the Bribery Act 2010 and I would say there's a "potential" infraction of that act, which comes with prison sentences attached.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Scott_xP said:

    @Dennynews

    Rishi Sunak still hasn’t turned up to a pre-planned media huddle in Glasgow.

    His team is claiming the PM can only do one broadcast clip and take no other questions.

    This is a total shambles.

    And his government accuses the SNP of secrecy?

    Takes his politics from Modi?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
    Lincoln Cathedral of course being the first to knock the pharoahs off their bloody perch by taking the title of world's tallest building off the hitherto unbeaten Great Pyramid.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @severincarrell

    UPDATE No 10 about to relent: @RishiSunak will take @ScotParlJournos questions after all, and a pooled TV clip - after *all* Scottish papers refuse invitation-only press conference
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
    Well, in the case of Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester, York and above all Lincoln they literally dominate the city. They are still the tallest and largest buildings and the site of many major and important events including concerts and plays.

    (You could have added Lichfield, Ely and Hereford to that list, by the way.)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Scott_xP said:

    @Dennynews

    Rishi Sunak still hasn’t turned up to a pre-planned media huddle in Glasgow.

    His team is claiming the PM can only do one broadcast clip and take no other questions.

    This is a total shambles.

    And his government accuses the SNP of secrecy?

    Takes his politics from Modi?
    That seems an odd comment, on the face of it, OKC. Have I misunderstood - care to elaborate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    In this he is both politically maladroit, and wrong on the principle.
    Looking like LibDem for me, too.
  • Pleased to report that, after a late (it seemed) start our nest-box has been occupied by a pair of blue-tits and the female is now sitting on at least eight eggs.
    Something to watch on daytime TV at last!

    We've got a few ducks with ducklings in the mill basin where we're doing up our new place. We're going through the daily trauma of trying to count up how many ducklings are left. One started with 12, we think she's down to 7 as of an hour ago. The rest seem to have lost only a couple each so far. There's a pair of swans guarding a nest just over from us on a small island. My wife has set her camera on a tripod and is like the expectant father. I can't get any work out of her!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 41% (-2)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (+1)
    REF: 7% (-)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 26 - 27 Apr
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited April 2023

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    Yes. Exactly that. Because my interests are better served by a Lab+LibDem coalition than a Lab majority.

    If Starmer doesn't like that sort of tactical voting, he could, I dunno... endorse PR?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell

    All Scottish media now refusing No 10’s insistence only pooled clip allowed


    Hiding in a fridge?

    Counter top fridge tbf..
    Under the counter, is more the Tory style.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
    Well, in the case of Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester, York and above all Lincoln they literally dominate the city. They are still the tallest and largest buildings and the site of many major and important events including concerts and plays.

    (You could have added Lichfield, Ely and Hereford to that list, by the way.)
    Ely for sure; the ‘Ship of the Fens’, One can see it for miles.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Perhaps Sunak is feeling rather exposed given his Dick's out?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    SKS to blame

    Get over yourself
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 41% (-2)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (+1)
    REF: 7% (-)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 26 - 27 Apr

    Thanks for posting.

    Labour remains well in the double digits, the Rishi approach can only take them so far when they have 13 years to defend. That is going to be a tall order for any Government.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Pleased to report that, after a late (it seemed) start our nest-box has been occupied by a pair of blue-tits and the female is now sitting on at least eight eggs.
    Something to watch on daytime TV at last!

    Ours (disconnected by builders snipping the wire, since reconnected in theory) isn't talking to us, unfortunately (I'll have to take it to bits to fix, which I won't do until our current residents are finished in the summer). It's been fascinating to watch the successes and failures of the blue tits over the last six years - we've been lucky and had some in each year.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Dennynews

    Rishi Sunak still hasn’t turned up to a pre-planned media huddle in Glasgow.

    His team is claiming the PM can only do one broadcast clip and take no other questions.

    This is a total shambles.

    And his government accuses the SNP of secrecy?

    Takes his politics from Modi?
    That seems an odd comment, on the face of it, OKC. Have I misunderstood - care to elaborate?
    Comparison with the only other Hindu Head of Government. In a major nation anyway.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    Entirely off thread, but the page which comes up when I click 'new tab' on my work computer is the MSN home page, which gives a rolling string of clickbait. For some reason I get a lot of clickbait from 'MyLondon' (I expect I clicked an article of theirs once and as a consequence got more of them.) I'm a bit of a sucker for UK travel articles, of which 'MyLondon' has a lot, and I rather enjoy the tone of breathless surprise you get when a journalist ventures outside the south of England. I particularly enjoyed this one:
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/other/i-visited-a-tiny-town-just-over-3-hours-from-london-that-s-even-prettier-than-the-cotswolds/ar-AA1ar6z4?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=4c4afce7d5204da6b02441158355e0a7&ei=8

    I loved 'even prettier than the Cotswolds' as if the Cotswolds is the gold standard of prettiness which no-one could imagine a thing prettier than. And the sentence 'I’d had no idea England had places quite this pretty' - as if the Lake District were some big secret no-one knew about.
    Fluff, but I'll still be clicking the next time MyLondon marvels at somewhere else I had become blase about. Nice to see your own backyard through someone else's eyes.

  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Sharpe is off. The Tories are corrupt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Dialup said:

    Sharpe is off. The Tories are corrupt.

    Sharpe has gone flat.

    Was a tone deaf appointment.

    Is a major embarrassment.

    Was purely accidental.

    Pick your favourite musical pun from that list...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps Sunak is feeling rather exposed given his Dick's out?

    Rishi the pound shop Boris Johnson?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    SandraMc said:

    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.

    I'm still giving it to Lincoln. Not so much even for the architecture fine though it is, but for that truly stunning setting.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (-)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @techneUK
    , 26 - 27 Ap
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps Sunak is feeling rather exposed given his Dick's out?

    Rishi the pound shop Boris Johnson?
    The pound shop Johnson?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    SKS to blame

    Get over yourself
    Never ceases to amaze me how many self-declared lefties will do anything they can to keep the Tories in power.

    Funny old world.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (-)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @techneUK
    , 26 - 27 Ap

    Do I say, SKS please explain here?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Selebian said:

    Pleased to report that, after a late (it seemed) start our nest-box has been occupied by a pair of blue-tits and the female is now sitting on at least eight eggs.
    Something to watch on daytime TV at last!

    Ours (disconnected by builders snipping the wire, since reconnected in theory) isn't talking to us, unfortunately (I'll have to take it to bits to fix, which I won't do until our current residents are finished in the summer). It's been fascinating to watch the successes and failures of the blue tits over the last six years - we've been lucky and had some in each year.
    We’ve had ours for some 15 years now, and as you say it’s fascinating to watch the comings and goings. However, at 15 years it might be time to replace, although it’s still sound
  • ydoethur said:

    Dialup said:

    Sharpe is off. The Tories are corrupt.

    Sharpe has gone flat.

    Was a tone deaf appointment.

    Is a major embarrassment.

    Was purely accidental.

    Pick your favourite musical pun from that list...
    Could be a new Bernard Cornwell book?
    Sharpe's ........?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    Yes. Exactly that. Because my interests are better served by a Lab+LibDem coalition than a Lab majority.

    If Starmer doesn't like that sort of tactical voting, he could, I dunno... endorse PR?
    But in your seat it's a straight Lab-Tory fight, so actually you are enhancing your chances of getting a Tory MP – hardly a 'tactical' vote, rather the opposite in fact. Duh!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    Yes. Exactly that. Because my interests are better served by a Lab+LibDem coalition than a Lab majority.

    If Starmer doesn't like that sort of tactical voting, he could, I dunno... endorse PR?
    Which likely means no Labour majority ever again, which is why the Unions and Labour left generally oppose PR as much as the Tory right do.

    Neither want the LDs to be Kingmakers most elections. PR would also see Labour leak votes to the Greens and the Tories leak votes to RefUK
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps Sunak is feeling rather exposed given his Dick's out?

    @Ydoethur
    If you are going to watch cricket at the Bristols Lagoon today, you will need some of these 😆


  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Dennynews

    Rishi Sunak still hasn’t turned up to a pre-planned media huddle in Glasgow.

    His team is claiming the PM can only do one broadcast clip and take no other questions.

    This is a total shambles.

    And his government accuses the SNP of secrecy?

    Takes his politics from Modi?
    That seems an odd comment, on the face of it, OKC. Have I misunderstood - care to elaborate?
    Comparison with the only other Hindu Head of Government. In a major nation anyway.
    Seems a bit of an odd basis for comparison (unless policies are clearly dictated by religion). Although, I guess there are some parallels between Boris Johnson and Silvio Berlusconi, if we're comparing supposed Catholics :wink:
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,665
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    As a Donny lad myself, I still chuckle at the idea of Doncaster being a 'city'. I know it technically is now, but it's the towniest city imaginable.
    I wonder what exactly they are going to label as the 'city centre'?

    'Tis a joke, really. It seemed to be yet another distraction from dealing with actual problems for the council.

    Maybe someone wanted it on their CV.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    Dialup said:

    Sharpe is off. The Tories are corrupt.

    Sharpe has gone flat.

    Was a tone deaf appointment.

    Is a major embarrassment.

    Was purely accidental.

    Pick your favourite musical pun from that list...
    Could be a new Bernard Cornwell book?
    Sharpe's ........?
    We've already had Sharpe's Gold.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Doethur, Sharpe's Gold was from decades ago...
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,247

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
    Well, in the case of Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester, York and above all Lincoln they literally dominate the city. They are still the tallest and largest buildings and the site of many major and important events including concerts and plays.

    (You could have added Lichfield, Ely and Hereford to that list, by the way.)
    Ely for sure; the ‘Ship of the Fens’, One can see it for miles.
    There must have been many a weary traveller far from home on the M25 whose spirits were raised by the distant sight of St Albans.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited April 2023

    A nontrivial proportion of self-declared Christians neither attend church nor believe in God. So the actual Christian populations of the cities listed above will be rather lower.

    I think it's quite hard to come up with a watertight definition of an, "actual Christian".

    My mother-in-law used to attend church every Sunday, though the trick was to arrive just late enough that you had to wait in the foyer for the first bit of the service and have the opportunity to catch-up on the gossip. Was she an "actual Christian" at the time?

    Her first three grandchildren have all been baptised, with godparents appointed to keep the devil and his works at bay. The Catholic Church would certainly claim those children as their own, and I'd expect them all to go through first communion and confirmation, etc, when the time comes - is that enough to make them "actual Christians" or are they simply going through the motions of the traditional cultural practices that exist in society?

    It's really hard to say without having a window into their souls. Self-reporting might be as good as you are going to get. Saying that you are a Christian must mean something to the people who answer in that way, even if it doesn't mean the same now as it would have done in the 19th, 17th or 12th centuries.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    HYUFD said:

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    Yes. Exactly that. Because my interests are better served by a Lab+LibDem coalition than a Lab majority.

    If Starmer doesn't like that sort of tactical voting, he could, I dunno... endorse PR?
    Which likely means no Labour majority ever again, which is why the Unions and Labour left generally oppose PR as much as the Tory right do.

    Neither want the LDs to be Kingmakers most elections. PR would also see Labour leak votes to the Greens and the Tories leak votes to RefUK
    Indeed. Labour's opposition to PR is longstanding – Keir's comments are hardly surprising.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    Driver said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    It's the distinction between cities that are cities because of the cathedral, and cities that are cities because they're too big to be towns, I would think?
    I think it's a myth that a cathedral makes a town a city. There are several examples of Cathedrals in towns (like Southwell). I think it's just the fact that several hundred years ago the cathedrals would have been in the major settlements. Then the industrial revolution happened and geography changed.

    Anyway, personally, as an atheist, I can't see a cathedral (or indeed any reasonably handsome church) without my spirits being raised. Little to do with any sort of spirituality - just the joy or a really big and beautiful thing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    SKS to blame

    Get over yourself
    Never ceases to amaze me how many self-declared lefties will do anything they can to keep the Tories in power.

    Funny old world.
    SKS is a self declared leftie (when seeking to be leader)

    Also SKS by pissing off those that voted him as leader is doing anything he can to keep the Tories in power

    Funny old World

    Especially funny watching the increasing desperation of Centrists as Labour lead shrinks when long time Labour voters refuse to vote for the full weight wanker that is SKS who literally told them if they didnt like what he was doing theres the door
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    ....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Selebian said:

    malcolmg said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Platinum Jubilee numbers were:

    8.7 million watched the trooping of the colour
    13.4 million watched Party at the Palace
    16.75 million took part in a community event

    So about one in four of the population.

    It's a plurality because they were the most popular/watched TV shows at the time, and more people were celebrating than doing any other one activity - even if not an absolute majority of the population. Many more caught highlights later. There would also have been school and other institutional celebrations as well, as well as private ones that did not show up in the figures. All in all I suspect a third of the population did something.

    I expect viewing numbers for the Coronation to be similar and about 10 million+ to watch it live, and a higher number on highlights later.

    That’d be my guess too. Lots will probably just put it on in the background or whatever. Plenty of people who are not football fans still put the World Cup on. Similarly a lot of folk generally disinterested in royalty may well just flick it on out of a sense of curiosity or it’s-a-historic-event sort of thing.

    Whatever the actual viewing figures, I’m sure there’ll be plenty for all sides to interpret in whichever way fits their pre-existing views :)
    The only thing I did for the world cup was flip on the last 30 minutes of the Final, when England were in it.

    I otherwise never touch, watch or read about football and simply ignore anyone who does.
    I will not watch 1 second of the parasite crowning.
    Morning Malc. You will have your union flag bunting out though, right? :wink:
    It is ablaze as we speak.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    SKS to blame

    Get over yourself
    Never ceases to amaze me how many self-declared lefties will do anything they can to keep the Tories in power.

    Funny old world.
    SKS is a self declared leftie (when seeking to be leader)

    Also SKS by pissing off those that voted him as leader is doing anything he can to keep the Tories in power

    Funny old World

    Especially funny watching the increasing desperation of Centrists as Labour lead shrinks when long time Labour voters refuse to vote for the full weight wanker that is SKS who literally told them if they didnt like what he was doing theres the door
    Suspect many PBers will take your views with a pinch of salt given your support for that well-known socialist Boris Johnson.

    ToryJohnOwls please explain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    No, it's effectively a vote for PR.
    The assumption that one of the two largest parties deserves our vote solely because they are one of the two largest parties is contemptible and undemocratic.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    edited April 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    As a Donny lad myself, I still chuckle at the idea of Doncaster being a 'city'. I know it technically is now, but it's the towniest city imaginable.
    I wonder what exactly they are going to label as the 'city centre'?

    'Tis a joke, really. It seemed to be yet another distraction from dealing with actual problems for the council.

    Maybe someone wanted it on their CV.
    In its favour, I think Donny was the second town in Yorkshire to get its royal charter (after York)*. It is pretty venerable. May not be much obvious history left but it's rather citier than Rotherham.

    source: Whittaker's almanac, 1974, half-remembered from at least 20 years ago. May not be accurate but is not woefully inaccurate.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I don't think SKS ever claimed to be very left wing. My feeling is that a lot of left wingers decided to put their views on him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354

    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Yes; Brighton is the city of godless green gays; not much room for Christians there.
    Nor Tories in Brighton either now, two Parliamentary seats in the city Labour, the other Green
    Yes, I'm in Brighton Kemptown, a Tory seat as recently as 2015. The Tories have disappeared completely, even though Lloyd Russell-Moyle is the MP. We've had no communication from Tories for the local elections.
    Conservative support in Brighton & Hove in 2019 was actually lower than in 1997. It's England's equivalent of San Francisco, politically.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    A nontrivial proportion of self-declared Christians neither attend church nor believe in God. So the actual Christian populations of the cities listed above will be rather lower.

    I think it's quite hard to come up with a watertight definition of an, "actual Christian".

    My mother-in-law used to attend church every Sunday, though the trick was to arrive just late enough that you had to wait in the foyer for the first bit of the service and have the opportunity to catch-up on the gossip. Was she an "actual Christian" at the time?

    Her first three grandchildren have all been baptised, with godparents appointed to keep the devil and his works at bay. The Catholic Church would certainly claim those children as their own, and I'd expect them all to go through first communion and confirmation, etc, when the time comes - is that enough to make them "actual Christians" or are they simply going through the motions of the traditional cultural practices that exist in society?

    It's really hard to say without having a window into their souls. Self-reporting might be as good as you are going to get. Saying that you are a Christian must mean something to the people who answer in that way, even if it doesn't mean the same now as it would have done in the 19th, 17th or 12th centuries.
    I'd define an actual Christian quite simply – someone who believes in the Christian God. Is there much more to it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    SandraMc said:

    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.

    Both amazing, aye

    Ely sailing like a ship above the fenland mist is also spectacular

    Salisbury is uniquely perfect. Lincoln is incredibly atmospheric

    Which are the worst?

    Guildford, Manchester, Bristol, Liverpool, Truro….

    Guildford I think. So fucking ugly
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Scott_xP said:

    @severincarrell

    All Scottish media now refusing No 10’s insistence only pooled clip allowed


    Hiding in a fridge?

    Counter top fridge tbf..
    He would not be able to reach up to it
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes the Coronation will overshadow the results and help the Tories if the results are bad. Yet will they be so bad? Remember the comparison will be with the 28% NEV the Tories got in the May 2019 locals NOT the 43% the Tories got in the December 2019 general election.

    Indeed on the latest poll tonight from Deltapoll the Tories are on 30% so actually UP on what they got in the 2019 locals. It is therefore not impossible the Tories under Rishi will actually gain council seats next week from the LDs (who are on just 9% compared to the 19% they got in the May 2019 locals), Independents and Greens, even if they likely lose seats to Labour who are on 43% compared to the 28% NEV they also got in May 2019
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1651643505087750153?s=20

    We shouldn't be comparing opinion polls for intended vote at the next General Election with the expected NEV of the local elections next week. They're measuring very different things - for example, the LDs at the time weren't polling 19% in GE polling but around 11%; not too far from where they are now (about 10%).

    Comparing apples with apples to try to get the idea of the broad comparison of an orange with an orange, I've done an approximate comparison of the polling from the start of the year to the week ending the 29th of April (for sampling) in 2019 versus 2023. It's pretty crude, because I haven't done any adjustment for sample size, and it's averaging each out in each given week (and when sampling dates cross between weeks, they're put in the week when most sampling was taken):



    Labour well up (about 14 points)
    Cons slightly up (about 1 point)
    LDs slightly down (about 1 point)

    It should lead to decent improvement in seat numbers for Labour, and the churn between Cons and LDs may be overwhelmed by local strengths and weaknesses and possibly even tactical voting (and local activity and availability of candidates).
    Slight caveat; the Lab-Con battleground is a relatively small fraction of the seats up for election this time. The seat count is dominated by the all-up elections in rural districts, where there are fewer voters per councillor and Labour often aren't in the running.
    2019 was an excellent year for independents and local parties, who I suspect will fall back somewhat.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    Yes. Exactly that. Because my interests are better served by a Lab+LibDem coalition than a Lab majority.

    If Starmer doesn't like that sort of tactical voting, he could, I dunno... endorse PR?
    Yes, I think for many of us a Lab-LD coalition would be by far the best outcome. The near 30 pp leads suggested Tory wipeout (and I don’t say that wouldn’t be served) and huge Labour majority. Thankfully, that’s now looking a lot less likely.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    Amazing what a big-ass cathedral can do.

    Carlisle, Gloucester, Peterborough, Worcester, Coventry: all big-ass cathedral cities, all near the top of the list.

    Leicester, Birmingham, Manchester: over-promoted parish churches, all near the bottom of the list. Oxford: college chapel. Cambridge: doesn't even have one.

    Handful of exceptions (Doncaster; Bristol, Norwich) but it's an interesting correlation nonetheless.
    In my experience even atheists in cities with great Medieval cathedrals like Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester,
    St David's, York, Canterbury,
    Winchester and Lincoln are proud of their cathedrals as great landmarks and features of the city
    Well, in the case of Durham, Worcester, Salisbury, Gloucester, York and above all Lincoln they literally dominate the city. They are still the tallest and largest buildings and the site of many major and important events including concerts and plays.

    (You could have added Lichfield, Ely and Hereford to that list, by the way.)
    Ely for sure; the ‘Ship of the Fens’, One can see it for miles.
    There must have been many a weary traveller far from home on the M25 whose spirits were raised by the distant sight of St Albans.
    There's a great spot on the M11 when you can suddenly see London's cluster of skyscrapers on the horizon, always a welcome sight on a long drive home from the North.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Dialup said:

    I don't think SKS ever claimed to be very left wing. My feeling is that a lot of left wingers decided to put their views on him.

    He said Corbyns Manifesto would be the blueprint of his leadership.

    He gave 10 pledges none of which he now stands by

    Its not even about being left wing its about integrity

    He promised to unite all wings of the Party and has done the complete opposite
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    ydoethur said:

    Dialup said:

    Sharpe is off. The Tories are corrupt.

    Sharpe has gone flat.

    Was a tone deaf appointment.

    Is a major embarrassment.

    Was purely accidental.

    Pick your favourite musical pun from that list...
    A key appointment for base motives.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Leon said:

    SandraMc said:

    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.

    Both amazing, aye

    Ely sailing like a ship above the fenland mist is also spectacular

    Salisbury is uniquely perfect. Lincoln is incredibly atmospheric

    Which are the worst?

    Guildford, Manchester, Bristol, Liverpool, Truro….

    Guildford I think. So fucking ugly
    Guildford isn't bad inside. But from the outside it reminds me of Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,665
    edited April 2023
    Cookie said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leicester because of Islam/Hindu, Brighton because they’re godless?

    ✝️Christians as a percentage of population in [city] in 2021

    Carlisle 53.3%
    Doncaster 50.9%
    Wrexham 49.5%
    Gloucester 47.7%
    Peterborough 46.3%
    Worcester 48.9%
    Stoke 45.8%
    Coventry 43.9%
    Leeds 42.3%
    London 41.7%
    Newcastle 41.3%
    Swansea 41.3%
    Derby 40.2%
    Southampton 40.1%
    Hull 39.9%
    Sheffield 38.5%
    Cardiff 38.3%
    Oxford 38.1%
    Manchester 36.2%
    Cambridge 35.2%
    Nottingham 34.7%
    Birmingham 34.0%
    Norwich 33.6%
    Bradford 33.4%
    Bristol 32.2%
    Brighton & Hove 30.9%
    Leicester 24.7%

    Source: ONS.


    https://twitter.com/Rob_Kimbell/status/1651817996870885376?s=20

    As a Donny lad myself, I still chuckle at the idea of Doncaster being a 'city'. I know it technically is now, but it's the towniest city imaginable.
    I wonder what exactly they are going to label as the 'city centre'?

    'Tis a joke, really. It seemed to be yet another distraction from dealing with actual problems for the council.

    Maybe someone wanted it on their CV.
    In its favour, I think Donny was the second town in Yorkshire to get its royal charter (after York)*. It is pretty venerable. May not be much obvious history left but it's rather citier than Rotherham.

    source: Whittaker's almanac, 1974, half-remembered from at least 20 years ago. May not be accurate but is not woefully inaccurate.
    May well be true - it has a long history - but the character of the place is not really that of a city, even though you are right that Rotherham is even less of one.

    It is a shame that very little remains of the Roman occupation.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.

    mickydroy said:

    People are forgetting just how far behind Labour starts from.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I know things aren't equal and all the rest of it, but if Labour took 80 seats (80!) from the Conservatives, then assuming no other changes, Labour would still be second in term of seats (282 v 285).

    Tribalism, Swingback, Natural Party of Government, Incumbancy Bias, Better the Devil you know....
    Call it what you want.

    Labour have a moutain to climb to get a majority. Only Blair has won that many seats from the last GE.
    To even be the largest party they need 82 gains (and 82 losses to the Conservatives). That's a big ask. It's been done, and its certainly a more realistic target but its still a big ask.
    I have been saying this for ages, Starmer has a mountain to climb, clawing some seats back in Scotland could be crucial, even then I wouldn't be backing a Labour overall majority
    I'm genuinely puzzled why Starmer seems to be going out of his way to alienate progressives (for want of a better word) who could make the difference in so many marginals.

    The kerfuffle about PR this week was one example. Starmer's spokesman didn't need to say he has "a long-standing view against proportional representation" - literally no one is going to switch their vote from Con to Lab because Starmer is strongly against PR. Just a non-commital "we have a lot of work to do recovering from 15 years of Tory rule and the voting system isn't an immediate priority" would have been fine. But no, he has to take the small-C conservative line. It happens every time.

    As it stands I'm going to be in a Lab/Con stretch marginal after the boundary changes. As such, I should be a target voter for Labour. Right now I'm planning to waste my vote on the LibDems.
    Effectively a vote for the Tories. Bravo.
    SKS to blame

    Get over yourself
    Never ceases to amaze me how many self-declared lefties will do anything they can to keep the Tories in power.

    Funny old world.
    SKS is a self declared leftie (when seeking to be leader)

    Also SKS by pissing off those that voted him as leader is doing anything he can to keep the Tories in power

    Funny old World

    Especially funny watching the increasing desperation of Centrists as Labour lead shrinks when long time Labour voters refuse to vote for the full weight wanker that is SKS who literally told them if they didnt like what he was doing theres the door
    Suspect many PBers will take your views with a pinch of salt given your support for that well-known socialist Boris Johnson.

    ToryJohnOwls please explain.
    As I say increasingly desperate Centrists ........
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    I don't think SKS ever claimed to be very left wing. My feeling is that a lot of left wingers decided to put their views on him.

    He said Corbyns Manifesto would be the blueprint of his leadership.

    He gave 10 pledges none of which he now stands by

    Its not even about being left wing its about integrity

    He promised to unite all wings of the Party and has done the complete opposite
    The 2017 manifesto. How is what he is offering now very different to that please?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    SandraMc said:

    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.

    Both amazing, aye

    Ely sailing like a ship above the fenland mist is also spectacular

    Salisbury is uniquely perfect. Lincoln is incredibly atmospheric

    Which are the worst?

    Guildford, Manchester, Bristol, Liverpool, Truro….

    Guildford I think. So fucking ugly
    Ah now we've been here before, about this time last year. I remember the opprobrium heaped on Truro - and then a month later I drove past Truro Cathedral on a sunny day and was awestruck. Not a typical British cathedral, but rather striking nonetheless. Certainly in the top 1% of attractive buildings in the country, even if not in the top 1% of cathedrals.

    Manchester: just a large parish church, basically. Not ugly by any means. Quite charming in its way. But not amazing. Ditto Blackburn.

    Manchester had plans for a bloody huge cathedral in Piccadilly Gardens. A pity it never happened: not because Manchester needs a huge cathedral, but because what got put there instead was so ugly. These were the plans:


    https://confidentials.com/manchester/imagined-manchester-piccadilly-gardens-in-dreams

    (My favourite cathedral is York Minster).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    edited April 2023
    ydoethur said:

    SandraMc said:

    Durham Cathedral is my favourite, followed by Wells.

    I'm still giving it to Lincoln. Not so much even for the architecture fine though it is, but for that truly stunning setting.
    I visited Wells Cathedral for the first time, a fortnight ago. It's stunning.

    Out of Durham, Lincoln, Wells, Exeter, Ely, Winchester, Southwell, York, St. Paul's, St. Alban's, St. David's, I'd be hard pressed to choose.

    Ely has a special place in my heart, because when I worked for Wood Green Animal Shelters, there was an annual service to which people took their dogs, who'd all start howling and barking along to the hymns.
This discussion has been closed.