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How votes have moved in Esher since GE1997 – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    edited April 2023
    Good morning, one and all!

    On today’s posts to date:
    I sometimes think this government is convinced it’s going to last forever and will never face defeat after the election.
    Ms Abbott seems to have forgotten the Holocaust’. Further, although that was by far the worst example of prejudice against Jews, it was by no means the only location on which large numbers slaughtered.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    The woman is quite absurd.

    Her justification as to why the article in her opinion is flawed, leaps between Continent and Century to demonstrate her nonsense.

    On the selective evidence she cites she has a point, but by conveniently omitting the Holocaust her argument is completely bogus.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,042
    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    Jewish people tend to be richer, higher earning and more highly educated than average, so for many on the hard left discrimination against Jews doesn't count
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    Jewish people tend to be richer, higher earning and more highly educated than average, so for many on the hard left discrimination against Jews doesn't count
    Corbyn’s time, perhaps excepted, the word, additionally, a large number of Jews in the Labour Party
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Good morning, one and all!

    On today’s posts to date:
    I sometimes think this government is convinced it’s going to last forever and will never face defeat after the election.
    Ms Abbott seems to have forgotten the Holocaust’. Further, although that was by far the worst example of prejudice against Jews, it was by no means the only location on which large numbers slaughtered.

    No no no. The Holocaust was “just like prejudice suffered by red headed people”

    The Nazis used to cart the Jews off to Auschwitz just to laugh at their funny ginger hair, then they gave them bagels for lunch and sent them home
  • Amanda Spielman currently drowning on the LK show. Admitted Ofsted hasn't contacted Ruth Perry's family to offer condolences.

    They must be very nervous about legal action., I assume.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    Surely a spoof reference to Tim Minchin

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    Diane Abbott will be suspended by the end of the day
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    "Jewish people can't suffer racism because they are white" is good evidence that she is both very very stupid and obviously anti-semitic.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    Jewish people tend to be richer, higher earning and more highly educated than average, so for many on the hard left discrimination against Jews doesn't count
    Another sweeping statement from you, but whatever. Corbyn and his fellow travellers' main problem was their inability to differentiate aggression by right-wing Israeli Governments again the Palestinians with Judaism en-mass. By conflating the one with the other they demonstrated anti-Semitism.

    But back to Abbott. In this instance BJO is perfectly entitled to ask "Starmer fans please explain". Let's see what Sir Softie actually does over the coming days.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Amanda Spielman currently drowning on the LK show. Admitted Ofsted hasn't contacted Ruth Perry's family to offer condolences.

    They must be very nervous about legal action., I assume.

    The policy of requiring heads to maintain confidentiality of an assessment - sometimes for months - before a report is published, was an exceptionally stupid and cruel one. And very likely contributed to Ruth Perry's despair.

    OFSTED have tacitly acknowledged that by now deciding to change it.
    These changes of assessment policy (which occur on a regular basis) are of course made unilaterally, without consultation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
    Probably safe to assume the Observer doesn't necessarily have Abbott's best interests at heart.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,842
    We finished Severance last night, what a brilliant show. Probably the first since Stranger Things that is a reasonably original concept and hasn't already been done a zillion times.

    Apple TV is generally a bit rubbish but it's worth digging up a free 3 month subscription from somewhere for Severance and Slow Horses. Everything else on there is middling.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    Jewish people tend to be richer, higher earning and more highly educated than average, so for many on the hard left discrimination against Jews doesn't count
    Another sweeping statement from you, but whatever. Corbyn and his fellow travellers' main problem was their inability to differentiate aggression by right-wing Israeli Governments again the Palestinians with Judaism en-mass. By conflating the one with the other they demonstrated anti-Semitism.

    But back to Abbott. In this instance BJO is perfectly entitled to ask "Starmer fans please explain". Let's see what Sir Softie actually does over the coming days.
    Maybe it was because you couldn't call out right wing Israeli aggression without being accused of antisemitism by various right wing conservative supporting jewish groups in Britain. A lot of conflating was being done on that side as well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
    Probably safe to assume the Observer doesn't necessarily have Abbott's best interests at heart.
    True enough

    Well if Starmer wants to get rid of an annoying corbynite liability the Observer has given him the perfect opportunity. Indeed I don’t think Starmer has much choice. The letter is that bad
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Ghedebrav said:

    Surprising ignorance on here from some as to what the civil service is/does. It is not a shadowy cabal of socialists/remainers/globalists/whatever the current MailExpressTory-approved hated group of the day is.

    If they were they’d be the shittest cabal ever if all they’d achieved was forcing out a minister whose low quality seems to be pretty much unanimously agreed upon, but have not averted e.g. Spaffer’s worst-in-all-possible-worlds Brexit deal.

    Plus, er, ministers get replaced; their selection pretty much entirely at the discretion of the PM. So again, not a particularly clever way for an imaginary cabal to effect the change they seek.

    Seriously, engage your brains a little folks.

    The kind of conservatism I would vote for would be the one where responsibility and accountability were restored to important values ahead of finding the nearest available scapegoat.

    Is Raab the worst bully ever? No
    Is the bullying worthy of resignation on its own? Arguable
    Is the bullying symptomatic of a weak and ineffective manager? Absolutely
    Should a weak and ineffective manager maintain their job as DPM? Of course not
    Agreed. A narrative is being attempted both that the civil service are targeting Brexiters (with why Raab as noted a big question) and that those not seeing a conspiracy think Raab is the devil incarnate or something.

    Like a lot of people I was underwhelmed by reports of Raabs bullying behaviour and thought there was a good chance he'd survive. As it turns out the report ended up being more critical than expected and whether by his own choice or not he quit. There's not much more to it - there are media conversations on the lines of acceptable behaviour, and not just from headbangers, so I really doubt we'll see a swathe of these.

    And it bears repeating - not everything is about bloody Brexit. It's just pathetic to think that is the overriding motivation for everyone, but only against Raab it seems.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    ydoethur said:

    Yorkshire are going to win this, aren't they?

    I was hoping they would lose and stay rooted firmly to the bottom where they belong,

    Alas @Ydoethur, we will never know what mess Yorkshire would have made of Minor County West, as your club was incapable of hosting the fixture.

    No playing at Bristols. Meanwhile, cricket has been played this season at Taunton, Worcestershire, Cardiff, the village green at Mardale (the one under a reservoir). Even the Creature from the Black Lagoon has picked up half a dozen wickets at his home basin, despite conditions unsuited to his leg spin.



    Howzaaaaaaaaaat?
    The writers should ha
    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what you want a fag end government to be embarking on.

    Tories consider controversial plan to politicise civil service after Raab scandal
    No 10 adviser urges political appointments in a radical plan following crisis over bullying
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/22/tories-consider-controversial-plan-to-politicise-civil-service-after-raab-scandal

    This does not bode well. If this current crop of Tory politicians can only function if they have placemen working for them, then they are really are not very good politicians.
    I have no doubt the vast majority of civil servants are anti-Brexit and anti-Tory, and I know this because a few told me when I was working as a consultant there assuming (as I was youngish) that I was a sympathetic ear. I said nothing of course.

    However, that is not why Raab had to resign - for that, he can entirely blame his own behaviour.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
    It would save her from making a difficult decision - betray JEREMY or be expelled for supporting him.

    Not sure it's sensible, but I can the the mangled logic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    If she wants to restrict use of the word racism only where apartheid like measures, segregation, and slavery have taken place, isnt she in effect saying there is no racism left in Britain today?

    I'd say Abbott has faced racist comments many times over the course of her long career and life. But does her own argument now suggest otherwise?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    MaxPB said:

    We finished Severance last night, what a brilliant show. Probably the first since Stranger Things that is a reasonably original concept and hasn't already been done a zillion times.

    Apple TV is generally a bit rubbish but it's worth digging up a free 3 month subscription from somewhere for Severance and Slow Horses. Everything else on there is middling.

    Severance is indeed excellent
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Popped in to see what's happening and stumbled across a NEW THREAD
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In my time working for a Race Equality Council the worst incidents of racism and hate crime I saw and worked on were against Gypsies, Roma and Travellers. In other areas, it is Jewish people. For Diane Abbott to treat this as lesser than racism is appalling. It doesnt minimise racism against people of colour to say this

    https://twitter.com/AudreySuffolk/status/1650055615459258368?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
    Probably safe to assume the Observer doesn't necessarily have Abbott's best interests at heart.
    True enough

    Well if Starmer wants to get rid of an annoying corbynite liability the Observer has given him the perfect opportunity. Indeed I don’t think Starmer has much choice. The letter is that bad
    Sir Softie please. Rishi stated at PMQs. "... that's why everyone is calling him Sir Softie". Well aren't you "everyone"? Please get on message!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    Another big payout by SNP coming up, yet another pompous twat overeached and made a real mess. Got the wrong guy and included his employer in it as well.

    This sets the bar for a "disgusting act" very low.
    Well it's a civil action so that seems fine to have a lower bar
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,302
    Leon said:

    Good morning, one and all!

    On today’s posts to date:
    I sometimes think this government is convinced it’s going to last forever and will never face defeat after the election.
    Ms Abbott seems to have forgotten the Holocaust’. Further, although that was by far the worst example of prejudice against Jews, it was by no means the only location on which large numbers slaughtered.

    No no no. The Holocaust was “just like prejudice suffered by red headed people”

    The Nazis used to cart the Jews off to Auschwitz just to laugh at their funny ginger hair, then they gave them bagels for lunch and sent them home
    When Arkan’s scum rounded up Muslim men, women and children, shot them and kicked the bodies into mass graves…. For being Muslim.

    Racism or not? They looked white…
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    If she wants to restrict use of the word racism only where apartheid like measures, segregation, and slavery have taken place, isnt she in effect saying there is no racism left in Britain today?

    I'd say Abbott has faced racist comments many times over the course of her long career and life. But does her own argument now suggest otherwise?
    Yeah, lost the plot and needs to go.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get over that Diane Abbott letter. It is either stupidity of the grossest kind, or she is actively wicked

    And what were the Observer doing publishing it? ("Sorry, Diane, no space for your letter this week - we'd have had to lose the email from Mike Giggler about how Rishi Sunak has adopted Non-Dom status...")

    Not censorship, just stopping a public figure soiling themselves while everyone (OK, the readership for the Observer, excluding those who only read Nigel Slater) was watching.
    There’s a claim on Twitter that this is a deliberate attempt at martyrdom. She wants to be expelled

    She’s always been weirdly stupid in some ways but she must have known that letter would cause outrage. And as you say why would the editors not point this out to her?

    Anyway I think she’s history. Starmer will have to suspend or expel her
    I hadn't spotted this - PB is really a great news feed.

    Incredibly offensive letter from Abbott - she should be made to was Holocaust documentaries on an endless loop. And has to lose the Labour whip obvs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    In my time working for a Race Equality Council the worst incidents of racism and hate crime I saw and worked on were against Gypsies, Roma and Travellers. In other areas, it is Jewish people. For Diane Abbott to treat this as lesser than racism is appalling. It doesnt minimise racism against people of colour to say this

    https://twitter.com/AudreySuffolk/status/1650055615459258368?s=20

    Anyone who thinks gypsies dont face racism has not heard how direct some people get when a new pitch is proposed in their village.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    The growth in the US, however, has been rather unequally distributed. Your average American may not be feeling it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,302

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Diane Abbott makes a bid for the ugliest letter to the Observer, ever. She must be in danger of expulsion from the party

    If she wants to restrict use of the word racism only where apartheid like measures, segregation, and slavery have taken place, isnt she in effect saying there is no racism left in Britain today?

    I'd say Abbott has faced racist comments many times over the course of her long career and life. But does her own argument now suggest otherwise?
    Yeah, lost the plot and needs to go.
    In the Southern US racism against Jews was explicit. And sometimes murderous - more than one lynching.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,607

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    January 2008 was just before the UK banks crashed.

    Extrapolating future growth from the fantasy world of UK finance and housing of pre 2008 was real sandcastles before an incoming tide stuff.
This discussion has been closed.