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How the papers are reporting BoJo’s big day – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,154
edited March 2023 in General
imageHow the papers are reporting BoJo’s big day – politicalbetting.com

This is terrible for the ex-Tory PM. YouGov finds that even the majority of CON voters think Johnson is dishonest pic.twitter.com/uCvvwg7ntL

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited March 2023
    *** Jet lag - good morning ***

    If Johnson is suspended and heads for a recall I guess he would resign. He's not one to like ignominy.

    Whatever happens this is all playing into Labour's hands and, of course, come the election next year they will be sure to bring all of this up.

    We all want to move on from what happened with the pandemic but there's still a day of reckoning, a blood letting, that will be a necessary part of the catharsis.

    The tories are going to take an absolute hammering at the next General Election.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited March 2023
    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In some ways what's more telling is "the dog that didn't bark". Johnson not even mentioned on the front page of the Sun. Meanwhile the damage done to the Conservative brand is still very much present:





    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1638573935783542785?s=20

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,340
    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    It's hilarious how you keep coming on here day after day at silly o'clock to post partial tweets, claim you speak for the whole nation and that a day of reckoning is coming.

    You're like one of these batty street preachers who stand on the corner shouting with a billboard round their necks, and a bible in their hand.

    Everyone ignores them.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited March 2023

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    It's hilarious how you keep coming on here day after day at silly o'clock to post partial tweets, claim you speak for the whole nation and that a day of reckoning is coming.

    You're like one of these batty street preachers who stand on the corner shouting with a billboard round their necks, and a bible in their hand.

    Everyone ignores them.
    Lovely. Good morning to you too. What a nice chap you are.

    I'm jet lagged from Asia but that doesn't negate the truth of what I've written, evidenced in many quarters including the national press coverage this morning.

    The real issue here is yourself and your ilk like Felix. The tories who cannot face holding up the mirror to their own faces and seeing the inherent characters flaws, the same lack of personal morals and ethical conduct, which have led to Labour leading the Conservatives by double digits. The "batty" ones are those who refuse to read the writing on the wall. There has been a sea-change in public opinion. Labour are on course for a handsome victory. Nothing now will change that.

    The polls don't lie.

    Have a nice day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,967
    Teacher vacancies in England 93% higher than pre-pandemic, study finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/mar/23/teacher-vacancies-in-england-93-higher-than-pre-pandemic-study-finds
    The findings indicate staff turnover is still rising, with vacancies in schools in England up 37% compared with 2021/22. “This likely indicates that teachers who may have put off the decision to leave teaching during the pandemic are leaving now that the labour market is recovering,” the report said.
    ..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,936
    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    Though I suppose Rishi's supporters can say he resigned (or betrayed Boris according to the loons), albeit after far too much sewagey water had passed under the bridge.
    Personally I find he has a strangely unhateable quality compared to a lot of Tories; a geek, a bit of a twat but not a complete ****. Dunno if that transfers to people who might possibly consider voting for the ghastly party.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    It's hilarious how you keep coming on here day after day at silly o'clock to post partial tweets, claim you speak for the whole nation and that a day of reckoning is coming.

    You're like one of these batty street preachers who stand on the corner shouting with a billboard round their necks, and a bible in their hand.

    Everyone ignores them.
    Lovely. Good morning to you too. What a nice chap you are.

    I'm jet lagged from Asia but that doesn't negate the truth of what I've written, evidenced in many quarters including the national press coverage this morning.

    The real issue here is yourself and your ilk like Felix. The tories who cannot face holding up the mirror to their own faces and seeing the inherent characters flaws, the same lack of personal morals and ethical conduct, which have led to Labour leading the Conservatives by double digits. The "batty" ones are those who refuse to read the writing on the wall. There has been a sea-change in public opinion. Labour are on course for a handsome victory. Nothing now will change that.

    The polls don't lie.

    Have a nice day.
    Haha nice to get an honourable mention from on of PBs most hypocritical nutjobs. Reminds me why I never vote Labour.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    Yup just like Starmrr and Labour forget the years of sitting with and voting for Corbyn. That stench on the room is hypocrisy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743
    I've seen some funny Mail headlines, but "Boris was as agile as a cat"?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Heathener said:



    The tories are going to take an absolute hammering at the next General Election.

    It's sadly not going to be an extinction level event for the tories. To the average shitmuncher, Sunak is less obviously detestable than Johnson and less obviously ludicrous than Truss though his satin finish, highly enriched venality indicates moral turpitude worse than either of them. Also, Sunak is sly enough to start slowly removing the self-imposed Brexit economic sanctions so he may have a feeble economic tailwind by the next election. Finally, the tories' voter suppression campaign will bear some blighted fruit.

    A hung parliament with the uncoalitionable tories as the largest party is the GE outcome with the highest entertainment value.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    Yup just like Starmrr and Labour forget the years of sitting with and voting for Corbyn. That stench on the room is hypocrisy.
    More importantly, this is likely to be successful. David Cameron's appeal was not being like his predecessors, and Boris stood against the policies of Cameron and May; Liz Truss likewise.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting podcast - Malcom Turnbull chats to Theresa May:

    https://link.chtbl.com/DefendingDemocracy
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    "Yes, your smartphone is snooping on you. Cybersecurity specialists say microphones may be constantly picking up clues as to where someone is, what they are doing and what they are interested in

    Nearly half of Britons believe that they have been a victim of ‘sonic snooping’ s
    NordVPN said apps can potentially pick up on private conversations and noise"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11892567/Cybersecurity-specialists-say-microphones-constantly-picking-clues-someone.html
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858
    edited March 2023
    His whole life, Johnson has considered himself and acted as if he is above the rules that apply to everyone else; a psychology that I recall one of his schoolmasters diagnosing with startling clarity.

    It is very fitting that, having finally made it to being above everyone else (in getting the top job), it is this same attitude that has brought him down,
  • So, it wasn't much of a shock that the committee is presented evidence that the proven liar had lied to parliament. That he sat there lying to them wasn't a surprise either.

    I was told yesterday that my non-surprise at these events was somehow proof of my bias. Perhaps the fact that the Earth is round is proof of my bias against the Flat Earth people.

    The only question that remains is how much of a sanction is imposed. His parliamentary crime is about as bad as it gets and doubling down yesterday just made it worse.

    Happily for non-biased people they will soon be able to watch non-biased news where presenter Lee Anderson gets to interview Jonathan Gullis and Simon Clarke and finds that everyone of a right mind thinks this is all a wokeist remainder plot.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858
    Chris said:

    I've seen some funny Mail headlines, but "Boris was as agile as a cat"?

    Neither of them put their agility to any good purpose.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743
    IanB2 said:

    Chris said:

    I've seen some funny Mail headlines, but "Boris was as agile as a cat"?

    Neither of them put their agility to any good purpose.
    Surely "slippery as a greased pig" is the most appropriate animal comparison?
  • Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chris said:

    I've seen some funny Mail headlines, but "Boris was as agile as a cat"?

    Neither of them put their agility to any good purpose.
    Surely "slippery as a greased pig" is the most appropriate animal comparison?
    Cats are arseholes, Boris Johnson is an arsehole, the cat analogy works.

    I say that as a former cat owner slave.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    To Beijing, not Moscow:

    BREAKING: Xi Jinping invited the leaders of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan in May for the "first China-Central Asia Summit" - AFP

    https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1638254443727581202?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799

    To Beijing, not Moscow:

    BREAKING: Xi Jinping invited the leaders of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan in May for the "first China-Central Asia Summit" - AFP

    https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1638254443727581202?s=20

    This is the other consequence of Putin's aggression. Central Asian republics in what Moscow sees as its sphere of influence are increasingly looking to China.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,967
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    Yup just like Starmrr and Labour forget the years of sitting with and voting for Corbyn. That stench on the room is hypocrisy.
    You do realise Foxy is a LibDem ?
    I think you're smelling your own emanations.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    edited March 2023

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    I concur.
    No increase pound slides feeds inflation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508

    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
    Er...spring forward = hour less zen calmness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    Which of those options is the stupidest?

    Because assume that's the one they'll take.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799

    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
    Er...spring forward = hour less zen calmness.
    Spring back, fall forwards. What's the point of a mnemonic whose opposite is just as plausible?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508
    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508
    ydoethur said:

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    Which of those options is the stupidest?

    Because assume that's the one they'll take.
    If we are headed for inflation sub 4%, then a large increase will soonest have to be reversed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508

    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
    Er...spring forward = hour less zen calmness.
    Spring back, fall forwards. What's the point of a mnemonic whose opposite is just as plausible?
    Have you ever heard a military command of "fall forward"???
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
    You’re probably both right. People don’t hate the Tories quite so much under their current leadership, but a vote for one of the other parties still counts even if you don’t press on the pencil quite so hard.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
    You've detected a sea change in public opinion following the news of Starmer's pension law in the last 24 hours? That's impressive. Or that's wishful thinking.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799

    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
    Er...spring forward = hour less zen calmness.
    Spring back, fall forwards. What's the point of a mnemonic whose opposite is just as plausible?
    Have you ever heard a military command of "fall forward"???
    Have you ever seen chucking out time at the Dog and Duck?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,967
    Canada sees fastest population growth in over half a century.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65047436
    Canada's population grew by over a million people for the first time ever last year, the government has said.
    The country's population increased from 38,516,138 to 39,566,248 people, Statistics Canada said.
    It also marked Canada's highest annual population growth rate - 2.7% - since 1957.
    The increase was in part fuelled by government efforts to recruit migrants to the country to ease labour shortages, Statistics Canada said.
    The country also depends on migration to support an ageing population...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,211
    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
    You've detected a sea change in public opinion following the news of Starmer's pension law in the last 24 hours? That's impressive. Or that's wishful thinking.
    Or my tongue was somewhat in cheek!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508

    ydoethur said:

    Blimey, it’s a bit early to be this angry, isn’t it?

    Dont worry clocks move forward in a couple of days so everyone shall have an extra hour of zen calmness.
    Er...spring forward = hour less zen calmness.
    Spring back, fall forwards. What's the point of a mnemonic whose opposite is just as plausible?
    Have you ever heard a military command of "fall forward"???
    Have you ever seen chucking out time at the Dog and Duck?
    When people pitch farward?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    I don't support Labour or Starmer and won't be voting for them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,771
    Thankfully I am busy today again, I will be giving my jury speech in my latest rape case. Hopefully we will have moved onto a more interesting topic when I get back.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Whataboutery. In any event the failings of Labour did not take place in Government. Furthermore Starmer has kicked Corbyn out of the PLP. That’s his atonement.
  • Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Sitting on the outside it is obvious - both leaders are in it up to their eyeballs. Sunak can't distance himself from a government he was chancellor of, from Downing Street parties he was at. Starmer can't distance himself from a Corbyn front bench he was a prominent figure in.

    The best either of them can do is move on with new perspectives and policies. Its easier to do that in opposition because you don't actually implement policies. Harder for Sunak because they did - but he is trying as the Windsor Framework demonstrates.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,967

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
    You've detected a sea change in public opinion following the news of Starmer's pension law in the last 24 hours? That's impressive. Or that's wishful thinking.
    Yes, in its own way, as hyperbolic a claim as anything from Heathener.
    Some of the usually level headed Max's economic predictions seem to have a touch of wishful thinking about them, too.

    My view, FWIW, is that we're in phony war territory at the moment. The battle lines for the next election have yet to be clearly defined.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,967

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Labour have not been in government for over a decade. You get to reinvent yourself in opposition in a way that's much harder in government.
    Not that it's impossible.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394

    ydoethur said:

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    Which of those options is the stupidest?

    Because assume that's the one they'll take.
    If we are headed for inflation sub 4%, then a large increase will soonest have to be reversed.
    Will the 2% target be being abandoned then?
    I find it a little implausible we are headed for sub 4% soon.
    We've had deep real term pay cuts, and yet the labour market is still tight. Something has to give there.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,196
    edited March 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    You've been away in Asia. A well-received Budget. SKS's politically dubious pension arrangements.

    You couldn't be expected to sense the change in mood away from Labour.

    But now you're back. you should note it.

    Hint: the people that always hated the Tories now REALLY hate the Tories. Floating voters? Not so much.
    You've detected a sea change in public opinion following the news of Starmer's pension law in the last 24 hours? That's impressive. Or that's wishful thinking.
    Yes, in its own way, as hyperbolic a claim as anything from Heathener.
    Some of the usually level headed Max's economic predictions seem to have a touch of wishful thinking about them, too.

    My view, FWIW, is that we're in phony war territory at the moment. The battle lines for the next election have yet to be clearly defined.
    Yes. And when they are it is my hunch is that this will favour the Conservatives. Hence my increased No Overall Majority bet this morning at 3.05 (BF).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Whataboutery. In any event the failings of Labour did not take place in Government. Furthermore Starmer has kicked Corbyn out of the PLP. That’s his atonement.
    In a fortnight where Sunak has brokered lasting peace on the Island of Ireland, an end to small boats leaving France for our shores, paid the national debt in a cheque to HMRC and saved Credit Suisse, we still in the debit column Suella Braverman as Home Secretary.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,211

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Sitting on the outside it is obvious - both leaders are in it up to their eyeballs. Sunak can't distance himself from a government he was chancellor of, from Downing Street parties he was at. Starmer can't distance himself from a Corbyn front bench he was a prominent figure in.

    The best either of them can do is move on with new perspectives and policies. Its easier to do that in opposition because you don't actually implement policies. Harder for Sunak because they did - but he is trying as the Windsor Framework demonstrates.
    That’s probably right. Although I’d say Starmer was more culpable - Johnson was more about personal failings that Sunak tolerated while Starmer turned a blind eye to anti semitism

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,771

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    I agree but this weeks seriously disappointing inflation figures have made it a more marginal call than it otherwise would have been. The MPC will have been rattled by that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,288
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    I know that twitter is a fairly poor litmus test but, wow, there's intense anger around from so many different quarters.

    Three examples, each direct in their different ways:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1638580693600018451?s=20

    https://twitter.com/SimplyRedHQ/status/1638559655352778754?s=20

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1638553725726781440?s=20


    Those who try to claim that this is all past us now and we need to move on really have not engaged with the country's mood. There will be a national cathartic day of reckoning and it's called the General Election.

    It's hilarious how you keep coming on here day after day at silly o'clock to post partial tweets, claim you speak for the whole nation and that a day of reckoning is coming.

    You're like one of these batty street preachers who stand on the corner shouting with a billboard round their necks, and a bible in their hand.

    Everyone ignores them.
    Lovely. Good morning to you too. What a nice chap you are.

    I'm jet lagged from Asia but that doesn't negate the truth of what I've written, evidenced in many quarters including the national press coverage this morning.

    The real issue here is yourself and your ilk like Felix. The tories who cannot face holding up the mirror to their own faces and seeing the inherent characters flaws, the same lack of personal morals and ethical conduct, which have led to Labour leading the Conservatives by double digits. The "batty" ones are those who refuse to read the writing on the wall. There has been a sea-change in public opinion. Labour are on course for a handsome victory. Nothing now will change that.

    The polls don't lie.

    Have a nice day.
    Did your flask survive the journey
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So: 0.5% increase, 0.25% increase or no increase today?

    I say 0.25% increase.

    Which of those options is the stupidest?

    Because assume that's the one they'll take.
    If we are headed for inflation sub 4%, then a large increase will soonest have to be reversed.
    Will the 2% target be being abandoned then?
    I find it a little implausible we are headed for sub 4% soon.
    We've had deep real term pay cuts, and yet the labour market is still tight. Something has to give there.
    2% is still the target. But it will be a long time until we get there!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,211
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Labour have not been in government for over a decade. You get to reinvent yourself in opposition in a way that's much harder in government.
    Not that it's impossible.
    That’s a different question.

    This one was whether Sunak/Starmer were compromised by happily serving under a flawed leader
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Labour have not been in government for over a decade. You get to reinvent yourself in opposition in a way that's much harder in government.
    Not that it's impossible.
    That’s a different question.

    This one was whether Sunak/Starmer were compromised by happily serving under a flawed leader
    It's a spurious argument in both cases.
  • Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,770

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chris said:

    I've seen some funny Mail headlines, but "Boris was as agile as a cat"?

    Neither of them put their agility to any good purpose.
    Surely "slippery as a greased pig" is the most appropriate animal comparison?
    Cats are arseholes, Boris Johnson is an arsehole, the cat analogy works.

    I say that as a former cat owner slave.
    And of course cats infect their owners with that brain-rotting parasite. A rather good analogy for what has happened to many Tories as a result of Johnsonism.
  • DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak is trying to pretend the Johnson years and Truss weeks were nothing to do with him. He was Johnsons Chancellor, lived next door to all the parties, yet strangely didn't notice them. He was at the cabinet table for years with Truss and Kwarteng etc. He put Braverman as Home Sec.

    It doesn't work for me or many others. There needs to be a reckoning.

    And yet the failings of Labour under Corbyn are nothing to do with Starmer?
    Whataboutery. In any event the failings of Labour did not take place in Government. Furthermore Starmer has kicked Corbyn out of the PLP. That’s his atonement.
    In a fortnight where Sunak has brokered lasting peace on the Island of Ireland, an end to small boats leaving France for our shores, paid the national debt in a cheque to HMRC and saved Credit Suisse, we still in the debit column Suella Braverman as Home Secretary.
    Poor Cruella. The right were OUTRAGED by the cropping of the photo of her cackling in front of the detention block under construction in Rwanda. As if the presence of the two locals also cackling somehow makes it ok.

    To give her some credit, that was at least proof that Rwanda is making a start on preparing to take people from here. I will stop quoting 200 as their capacity. The problem for her and PB supporters of the plan is that to render people to the Rwandan gulag, first you have to lock them up in the UK.

    They are building detention blocks in Rwanda. We are not building detention blocks in the UK. Which means we literally have nowhere to house the people coming in we want to deport. Every time a location is proposed locals are up in arms. Though they do keep choosing Tory areas. Surely its only proper to use Labour areas as punishment.

    Frankly, if they barracaded the centre of Barnsley and used it as a detention camp, they would improve the place...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated

    Well, those in Downing Street were...
  • Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    If you are referring to me what are you saying my take on the mail was, as I utterly reject the mails idiotic front page and leader this morning
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
  • Foxy said:

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    Having serving MPs as TV "news" presenters is a novelty that I don't recall happening before, and it isn't a positive development.

    The splintering of media and narrow-casting news outlets, so we can all sit in our micro-bubbles is not a good thing for national unity.
    I can honestly say I have never watched GBNews or quoted them
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,770
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.

    Edit: only for males, admittedly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.
    My ears don't work very well, at best 50% there.

    I mean, I can use the abacus but it's a real nuisance lugging it around. And people give you funny looks when you have to pause to add things up on it.
  • Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    If you are referring to me what are you saying my take on the mail was, as I utterly reject the mails idiotic front page and leader this morning
    Yes I know you did - that is what I was referring to. You are pro-Tory pro-Sunak. And reject out of hand the lunacy of a front page which as you said appears to be watching a different hearing to the rest of us.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.

    Edit: only for males, admittedly.
    Have you ever seen a woman?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.

    Edit: only for males, admittedly.
    Have you ever seen a woman?
    Surely you have never suggested to a woman that she is too old to use items that add up to 26?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.
    My ears don't work very well, at best 50% there.

    I mean, I can use the abacus but it's a real nuisance lugging it around. And people give you funny looks when you have to pause to add things up on it.
    Now you mention it, I do have a vague memory of being introduced to an abacus at school, along with slide rules and log tables. Then the exam boards allowed calculators so that was that. Do schoolchildren still use pocket calculators, or use phone apps instead? You'd have thought smartphones' other capabilities would worry exam boards.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,608
    Doesn’t GB News have a responsibility to be impartial?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.
    My ears don't work very well, at best 50% there.

    I mean, I can use the abacus but it's a real nuisance lugging it around. And people give you funny looks when you have to pause to add things up on it.
    Now you mention it, I do have a vague memory of being introduced to an abacus at school, along with slide rules and log tables. Then the exam boards allowed calculators so that was that. Do schoolchildren still use pocket calculators, or use phone apps instead? You'd have thought smartphones' other capabilities would worry exam boards.
    They have to use calculators as you can't take phones into an exam.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,196

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    If you are referring to me what are you saying my take on the mail was, as I utterly reject the mails idiotic front page and leader this morning
    Yes I know you did - that is what I was referring to. You are pro-Tory pro-Sunak. And reject out of hand the lunacy of a front page which as you said appears to be watching a different hearing to the rest of us.
    Not as bonkers as the Quentin Letts sketch in the Times.

    When medieval heretics were burnt at the stake it took three hours for the corpse to turn to ashes. The Martyrdom of St Boris lasted roughly the same time but by the end it was not clear who had been vapourised. Johnson looked annoyingly chipper but the privileges committee’s Sir Bernard Jenkin was a bit singed at the eyebrows and Harriet Harman was the colour of hot lobster.

    Highlights the challenge for Team Rishi. There's still a non-trivial minority who are deeply invested in Boris and will take his necessary destruction really badly. Not enough to win, but enough to make a lot of noise. And they are concentrated in the Conservative Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,770

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.

    Edit: only for males, admittedly.
    Have you ever seen a woman?
    Eh? Yes, but males have nipples too, now you mention it, so make that 26 for males at least ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,331
    Have we done this ? The move for reparations for slavery is moving forward. Two Labour MPs demanded we pay reparations to descendents and in San Francisco a proposal to pay $5Million per eligble person plus $97K annual income for 250 years, one of many, is gathering quite a bit of support. Ironic as California was never a slave state but "racial justice" seems to be a growing priority these days.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/san-francisco-reparation-plans-black-residents

    There is also the demand for climate reparations, which is growing and largely supported by charities who would help administer the funds.

    I wonder where this all ends and how it is afforded ?



  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,196
    Foxy said:

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    Having serving MPs as TV "news" presenters is a novelty that I don't recall happening before, and it isn't a positive development.

    The splintering of media and narrow-casting news outlets, so we can all sit in our micro-bubbles is not a good thing for national unity.
    At what point does GB News die? It's losing lots of money, and doesn't work as a propaganda outfit, because its audience is tiny. "Look Up The Western East Of The Region Where You Are Tonight" tiny.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,714
    Jonathan said:

    Doesn’t GB News have a responsibility to be impartial?

    No. Its a channel for the brain dead. Impartiality is irrelevant.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,963

    Interesting podcast - Malcom Turnbull chats to Theresa May:

    https://link.chtbl.com/DefendingDemocracy

    I definitely first read that as “Malcolm Tucker” and was hoping for comedy gold.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,978
    edited March 2023

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    If you are referring to me what are you saying my take on the mail was, as I utterly reject the mails idiotic front page and leader this morning
    Yes I know you did - that is what I was referring to. You are pro-Tory pro-Sunak. And reject out of hand the lunacy of a front page which as you said appears to be watching a different hearing to the rest of us.
    It is not only their front page their leader column is utterly out of touch and an embarrassment

    As has been said the mail and band of 22 voting against the WF are like the Japanese soldier in the jungle still fighting a battle long ended

    Yesterday was a good day for Sunak and the signing of the WF on Friday in London creates his legacy no matter what happens in 24

    Indeed I believe Sunak is pragmatic enough to take us much closer to the EU starting with the Horizon programme and continuing to develop a mutually beneficial and friendly relationship with the EU

    Indeed Starmer will need to adjust his pro Brexiter credentials if he not to be left in Sunak's slipstream
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,963
    Jonathan said:

    Doesn’t GB News have a responsibility to be impartial?

    Only when doing “the news” is my understanding of their loophole. Hence (haven’t watched it so I gather this from others) they have the news read by people who are not the celeb presenters.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,640
    Sunak is clearly an asset for the Tories as he is very obviously more honest and competent than either Johnson or Truss. But he leads a party whose MPs and members made both their leader. I think enough voters will remember that to see the Tories lose power at the next election, especially as there will be plenty of very visible loons - Braverman, Anderson, Rees Mogg, Francois, Patel etc - demanding loon policies, such as withdrawal from the ECHR, to remind them of that. Labour loons, on the other hand, are safely hidden away and the loon-in-chief will not be standing for Labour.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,161
    biggles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Doesn’t GB News have a responsibility to be impartial?

    Only when doing “the news” is my understanding of their loophole. Hence (haven’t watched it so I gather this from others) they have the news read by people who are not the celeb presenters.
    It's the same with Good Morning Britain.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well, in other news I'm fifty today.

    Just went out to do a quick 6k run to burn off the remaining alcohol from last night's celebrations. Before going to a restaurant in town at lunchtime for even more alcohol. :)

    Happy birthday.

    I'm 40 in a couple of weeks. Is that old enough to start counting backwards?
    As I near 80 I struggle to count either way !!!!!
    I started to struggle after 10. Not enough fingers, you see.
    Surely possible to count up to 24, including nose and ears.

    Edit: only for males, admittedly.
    Have you ever seen a woman?
    Eh? Yes, but males have nipples too, now you mention it, so make that 26 for males at least ...
    Use those 26 "extremities" to count in binary, then you can get to 2^26-1. That gets you to 67108863. which is enough for most things, at least since Italy got rid of the Lira.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,340
    Taz said:

    Have we done this ? The move for reparations for slavery is moving forward. Two Labour MPs demanded we pay reparations to descendents and in San Francisco a proposal to pay $5Million per eligble person plus $97K annual income for 250 years, one of many, is gathering quite a bit of support. Ironic as California was never a slave state but "racial justice" seems to be a growing priority these days.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/san-francisco-reparation-plans-black-residents

    There is also the demand for climate reparations, which is growing and largely supported by charities who would help administer the funds.

    I wonder where this all ends and how it is afforded ?



    It's instructive that that $5m is being criticised from both sides - for being "too low" from the campaign groups and "ridiculous" by those opposed to it.

    If ultra-liberals in San Francisco proceed with this they will find themselves rapidly out of office.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,766
    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, reparations paid by people who did nothing wrong to people who suffered no harm. For people who love grievance, but not logic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,288
    Taz said:

    Have we done this ? The move for reparations for slavery is moving forward. Two Labour MPs demanded we pay reparations to descendents and in San Francisco a proposal to pay $5Million per eligble person plus $97K annual income for 250 years, one of many, is gathering quite a bit of support. Ironic as California was never a slave state but "racial justice" seems to be a growing priority these days.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/san-francisco-reparation-plans-black-residents

    There is also the demand for climate reparations, which is growing and largely supported by charities who would help administer the funds.

    I wonder where this all ends and how it is afforded ?



    You would have thought they would be more concerned that the streets of San Francisco are crowded with homeless people and drug addicted people with a view as how to solve a real problem.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,640
    Labour lead up 7 to 26 in this week’s YouGov published just now in The Times Red Box.
    Labour 49 (+3)
    Tories 23 (-4)
    LibDems 10 (-1)
    Greens 6 (nc)
    Reform 6 (nc)
    SNP (-1)
    No fieldwork dates, but likely to be 21st and 22nd March. Looks like an outlier.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,999
    IanB2 said:

    Guardian: the hardline Tory Brexiters are complaining that Mr Sunak is fixing flaws in a bad deal, and asserting that the better solution would be to stick with a worse deal and have no solution at all. Their real objection cannot be declared openly. It is that the current prime minister has shamed his predecessor by proving that constructive negotiation in good faith gets results. Mr Johnson’s acolytes despise the Windsor framework because it is an emblem of realistic compromise that runs counter to the delusional utopian spirit of Euroscepticism as a nationalist liberation struggle.

    They couldn't make up their mind whether to claim credit for it or just condemn it. In the end we saw both, but they did at least focus on the latter.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,862
    He's become a figure of fun but not in a nice way anymore.

    The Mail and Express seem happy to go down with him
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858
    Strong support for New Labour from Albania there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357

    Thinking a little more on the comedy of Lee Anderson being hired as a news anchor I do have to float the question - are the mad right now intoxicated from the smell of their own farts?

    Propaganda is a dark art - needs to be subtle and convincing at times, rabble rousing at others. When it is at its most effective is when it is barely detectable as such. And yet the hate and suspicion of both extremes towards the "mainstream media" pushes both in turn to produce their own news which is a pitiful parody.

    The hard left tried its own online news platform - The Canary - and then its own "TV" service - Novara. Short of cash neither were convincing in their presentation, and their content was so absurdly one-sided that it was excruciatingly obvious what it was.

    The hard nats have their own newspaper - The National - which prints comedy "come on everyone lets cheer the boss!" headlines. A Scottish version of the Daily Express.

    Neither of these fell into the trap the hard right have done with GBeebies. They've started hiring serving Tory MPs - not as guests, but as presenters. They have the budget and the production values so it looks like news. But increasingly we have Tory MPs presenting "news" where they interview Tory MPs.

    Aside from their core 20%, does anyone pay any attention to it? They already have newspapers which tell utter whoppers (cf Big-Gs take on the Heil's front page). But the whoppers are written by 3rd parties - they don't have Lee Anderson write the story or even the headlines.

    So why do it on their TV News station? Talking to yourselves and only yourselves is reassuring I am sure. But if the aim is to win hearts and minds, to be a mass movement the masses will once again vote for, this isn't the right approach - self-parody.

    If you are referring to me what are you saying my take on the mail was, as I utterly reject the mails idiotic front page and leader this morning
    Yes I know you did - that is what I was referring to. You are pro-Tory pro-Sunak. And reject out of hand the lunacy of a front page which as you said appears to be watching a different hearing to the rest of us.
    It is not only their front page their leader column is utterly out of touch and an embarrassment

    As has been said the mail and band of 22 voting against the WF are like the Japanese soldier in the jungle still fighting a battle long ended

    Yesterday was a good day for Sunak and the signing of the WF on Friday in London creates his legacy no matter what happens in 24

    Indeed I believe Sunak is pragmatic enough to take us much closer to the EU starting with the Horizon programme and continuing to develop a mutually beneficial and friendly relationship with the EU

    Indeed Starmer will need to adjust his pro Brexiter credentials if he not to be left in Sunak's slipstream
    I think it is a stretch to suggest Starmer is a pro-Brexiter and Sunak is more pragmatic.

    Personally speaking I would rather we had never left, I would have been content for another referendum fo prevent the economic (if not the social and political) chaos. But anyway now we have left, it is disingenuous of you to imply we can rejoin in a heartbeat a single market, when as a nation we won't accept FoM. In reality there is not a cigarette paper between the Labour and Conservative (under Sunak) policies. Both are unsatisfactory, but both have a client vote to appease. You saw for yourself yesterday Sunak's dilemma. Initial excitement that only 22 "headers" had voted against was tempered by the dozens of abstentions. He has the voters and the nutters to worry him, Starmer only has the RedWall to fear.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,521
    Trying to be vaguely fair, I'm half-persuaded that Johnson did get advice from various political appointees that he was OK to say what he did. I note that of the three apparently killer quotes that were used on Newsnight, two of them don't say they advised against, they just say they weren't among those who offered advice. The third expressed doubts but doesn't seem to haqve offered a strong opinion. "Why didn't you ask a lawyer?" seems to me unreasonable - PMQs is every week, and the PM can't keep calling a lawyer for every possible question. So I think various people told him what he wanted to hear and he happily went with it.

    But the underlying positionm is of course outrageous - of course he shouldn't have assumed that the stringent regulations didn't apply to his circle, as he quite obviously did. The more people go into micro-detail, the weaker the case compared with that fundamental fact.
This discussion has been closed.