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Could Johnson really lose his seat? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2023 in General
imageCould Johnson really lose his seat? – politicalbetting.com

This is going to be a massive week for the former prime minister Boris Johnson with the report of the Commons Privileges Committee on whether he lied to the House about partygate.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,588
    If Johnson is found to be as innocent as he claims does Sunak feel obliged to walk?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    If Johnson is found to be as innocent as he claims does Sunak feel obliged to walk?

    But he's not going to be found innocent, is he?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2023
    For a suspension of Johnson to happen it would need about 20% of Conservative MPs to vote with Opposition MPs for it
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Latest UKPollingReport forecast for Uxbridge.

    Lab 53%
    Con 37%

    https://pollingreport.uk/seats/E14001007
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,588

    If Johnson is found to be as innocent as he claims does Sunak feel obliged to walk?

    But he's not going to be found innocent, is he?
    Don't forget we as taxpayers are paying David Pannick to defend him. What are we getting back for our investment? Acquitted and exonerated, it should be a resigning matter for the entire Opposition front bench when BigDog gets his 4 to 3 win in the Committee. I do hope Hunt hasn't emulsioned over the wallpaper.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    Can’t say I’m particularly impressed with the relaunched ukpr.

    Lots of adverts and “sponsored posts” about startups and wotnot.

    It was good while it lasted, I guess.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,588

    If Johnson is found to be as innocent as he claims does Sunak feel obliged to walk?

    But he's not going to be found innocent, is he?
    Can I phone a friend?
    HYUFD said:

    For a suspension of Johnson to happen it would need about 20% of Conservative MPs to vote with Opposition MPs for it

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    If Sunk gives a free vote, then I can't see any excuse for the opposition parties to vote for Boris (for mischief) or abstain.

    So he's toast.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Despite poll after poll, despite decades of improving race relations, despite many examples of this country's openness and compassion, a large chunk of the commentariat can't believe that voters here are both positive about foreign newcomers and hard-nosed about letting them in.

    https://twitter.com/damcou/status/1637469266881511427
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    “To lie outright, while accusing your colleagues of being Trumpian for demanding facts you sought to conceal, betrays a special kind of arrogance.” Bravo @JoanMcAlpine. Time to reclaim @theSNP good reputation. #VoteAsh1 #VoteKate2

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1637568272995438599?s=20
  • HYUFD said:

    For a suspension of Johnson to happen it would need about 20% of Conservative MPs to vote with Opposition MPs for it

    It's a good job for you that 20%+ of Tory MPs don't utterly loathe Johnson and want his political career permanently ended, then.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    The local election results will give us some hard data to work with.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Thread:

    A short story.

    The CEO of a high flying company accepts a payment of £660k from a client, for a very specific project said client would like delivered. The CEO and his board of directors commit to deliver the project for the agreed fee paid.


    https://twitter.com/SpartacusLives/status/1637462789898883072?s=20
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65010185

    Very interesting, particularly regarding China’s role.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Sanctions busting (not by Lion Air, who had returned the aircraft to the Lessor):

    While embargoes against Russia continued, S7 Airlines managed to bring two B737-900 type aircraft from Indonesian Lion Air to Russia.

    The planes will be painted in S7 Airlines colors and given to the flights. For the first time, the airline added B737-900 type aircraft to its fleet.

    The airline had pre-war orders for the A320neo, A321neo and B737 MAX. A large number of aircraft, which were completed and could not be delivered, were transferred to many airline companies, especially THY.


    Last seen in Abu Dhabi, before Moscow......which I expect is where they'll get the spares from.....

    https://twitter.com/HavaSosyalMedya/status/1634695715967385600?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    Kwasi, showing all the judgment he displayed as Chancellor, is still team Boris.

    Kwarteng: Johnson could survive Partygate grilling and lead Tories again
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/19/us-china-russia-relations-00087633
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    Nigelb said:

    Kwasi, showing all the judgment he displayed as Chancellor, is still team Boris.

    Kwarteng: Johnson could survive Partygate grilling and lead Tories again
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/19/us-china-russia-relations-00087633

    And he is not entirely alone.
    ...Johnson’s supporters have long sought to discredit the inquiry. Over the weekend, they stepped up their attacks on the inquiry that all MPs voted to begin last April.

    Lord Cruddas, a former Tory party treasurer to whom Johnson gave a peerage in 2020, has urged the privileges committee not to rely on a report into the illegal parties compiled by the senior civil servant Sue Gray, given she later took up a job offer from Labour.

    A petition was also launched by the Conservative Post website, which called on the four Tory MPs who make up the majority of committee members to withdraw...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    Apologies for the wrong link (though the Politico artichoke is worth a read).
    The Kwarteng link.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/19/kwasi-kwarteng-i-would-never-rule-out-boris-johnson-leading-tories-again
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Asian markets open, and a big sea of red this morning. Nikkei down more than 1%, and the Hang Seng off nearly 3% already.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited March 2023

    “To lie outright, while accusing your colleagues of being Trumpian for demanding facts you sought to conceal, betrays a special kind of arrogance.” Bravo @JoanMcAlpine. Time to reclaim @theSNP good reputation. #VoteAsh1 #VoteKate2

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1637568272995438599?s=20

    Former SNP MSP Joan McAlpine in The Sunday Post - "Trust, truth and confidence go together in politics. If people lose trust in their politicians, they also lose confidence in them to get the job of running the country done.

    For years, the SNP government benefited from the precious gift of trust. Polls consistently showed it enjoyed higher levels of confidence than its Westminster counterpart.

    That has been destroyed by the small cabal around Nicola Sturgeon and her husband Peter Murrell, the SNP’s now ex-chief executive. It’s perhaps a blessing that the secretive, controlling and undemocratic edifice they built is tumbling down in spectacular fashion."

    https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/trust-so-carefully-won-has-been-lost-it-is-time-for-a-clean-pair-of-hands/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    HYUFD said:

    For a suspension of Johnson to happen it would need about 20% of Conservative MPs to vote with Opposition MPs for it

    The Government's working majority is 66, so only about 10% need to swap sides to erase it. Stick a fork in the evil bastard, he's done.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
  • Ministers fear that Downing Street has “oversold” Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal amid concerns that the Democratic Unionist Party and Tory Eurosceptics will vote against it.

    This week the prime minister will put a critical aspect of his deal, the Windsor framework, to a vote in the Commons. While ministers are confident that they have the numbers to get it through, some in government are concerned that No 10 has “overpromised and underdelivered”.

    They raised concerns about the “Stormont brake”, which allows the government to veto new EU legislation if there are concerns in Northern Ireland. “The legislation isn’t what’s been sold,” a minister said. “The brake doesn’t really do much.”

    In a critical report, the European Research Group of MPs is expected to claim that the legal text of Sunak’s deal would in effect stop the UK from diverging from the EU because it would result in new barriers between Britain and Northern Ireland. It also dismisses the brake as “unusable”, warning that any block would have to be ultimately agreed by Brussels.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-over-promised-on-brexit-deal-ministers-fear-3f7dzpkw8
  • Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    Gnosall is only about fifteen miles from where I lived. I know it well.

    I was very surprised by the claim about rents so I checked prices round here.

    Genuinely staggered at the rates being asked for even modest houses. That’s a 50% increase on what I was paying just eight years ago.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    ...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,226
    edited March 2023

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputation?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    a

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Too Big To Fail

    The Met has used the “national responsibilities” thing as a shield before - especially the anti-terrorism remit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputstion?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
    Gloucestershire police could cut crime in half tomorrow just by committing rather less of it.

    As for the Met how many bloody chances does it need? Enough already. Break it up into five different forces each with their own Commissioner, Police Authority and PCC. That’s been needed for over 100 years.

    And at the same time, change the rules on disciplinary procedures so they are completed whether you resign or not (and that could be usefully applied in other fields as well, the way it is in teaching).
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited March 2023
    I recon the FED/BoE are going to chicken out.

    If you want a half decent fixed rate on your cash savings, jump now.

    https://www.paragonbank.co.uk/savings/cash-isas/three-year-fixed-cash-isa

    Ain’t too bad

    I expect these kind of rates will be pulled very soon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    It's been a staple of PB discussion for at least a decade that government should be building, or facilitating the building of many more houses. And most political persuasions agree on that.
    I can only conclude that we've had remarkably useless government for at least the last decade.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Ministers fear that Downing Street has “oversold” Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal amid concerns that the Democratic Unionist Party and Tory Eurosceptics will vote against it.

    This week the prime minister will put a critical aspect of his deal, the Windsor framework, to a vote in the Commons. While ministers are confident that they have the numbers to get it through, some in government are concerned that No 10 has “overpromised and underdelivered”.

    They raised concerns about the “Stormont brake”, which allows the government to veto new EU legislation if there are concerns in Northern Ireland. “The legislation isn’t what’s been sold,” a minister said. “The brake doesn’t really do much.”

    In a critical report, the European Research Group of MPs is expected to claim that the legal text of Sunak’s deal would in effect stop the UK from diverging from the EU because it would result in new barriers between Britain and Northern Ireland. It also dismisses the brake as “unusable”, warning that any block would have to be ultimately agreed by Brussels.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-over-promised-on-brexit-deal-ministers-fear-3f7dzpkw8

    "In a critical report, the European Research Group of MPs..."
    Ignore, then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    It's been a staple of PB discussion for at least a decade that government should be building, or facilitating the building of many more houses. And most political persuasions agree on that.
    I can only conclude that we've had remarkably useless government for at least the last decade.
    Tbf, that’s not the only piece of evidence.

    School policy, electricity generation, the constant costly bungling of HS2, the delays in getting FTTP rolled out and the mere existence of Dominic Cummings all point the same way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    Gnosall is only about fifteen miles from where I lived. I know it well.

    I was very surprised by the claim about rents so I checked prices round here.

    Genuinely staggered at the rates being asked for even modest houses. That’s a 50% increase on what I was paying just eight years ago.
    At first glance, I assumed the story was from around London.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    ydoethur said:

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputstion?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
    Gloucestershire police could cut crime in half tomorrow just by committing rather less of it.

    As for the Met how many bloody chances does it need? Enough already. Break it up into five different forces each with their own Commissioner, Police Authority and PCC. That’s been needed for over 100 years.

    And at the same time, change the rules on disciplinary procedures so they are completed whether you resign or not (and that could be usefully applied in other fields as well, the way it is in teaching).
    This morning reported that over 500 Met officers are currently being investigated for sex related offences. 100 of whom have already resigned.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,037
    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    a

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Too Big To Fail

    The Met has used the “national responsibilities” thing as a shield before - especially the anti-terrorism remit.
    Where Dick was promoted from.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    Gnosall is only about fifteen miles from where I lived. I know it well.

    I was very surprised by the claim about rents so I checked prices round here.

    Genuinely staggered at the rates being asked for even modest houses. That’s a 50% increase on what I was paying just eight years ago.
    I’ve been pointing this out for years - it’s all very well to say that people can afford to spend thousands a month on housing.

    Except that nearly no one has the pension provision to afford that.

    Expect large number of stories of people retiring and discovering their only options are to move to some very, very out of the places or are homeless.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,037

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputation?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
    For far too many police it seems to simply be a steady job for busybodies who want an easy life.

    That said, there are a number of police, probably in the minority but no less impressive for it, who really do put themselves on the front line in harm's way dealing with the most unpleasant aspects of our society.

  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited March 2023
    Gas 97.65p/therm, Brent $70.60/barrel

    That should be good news (lower inflation), but it might be bad news (sign of an incoming recession).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,037
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    Gnosall is only about fifteen miles from where I lived. I know it well.

    I was very surprised by the claim about rents so I checked prices round here.

    Genuinely staggered at the rates being asked for even modest houses. That’s a 50% increase on what I was paying just eight years ago.
    I rented a two-bed flat in Rotherhithe with views of the Thames in 2012 for £1,667 a month.

    Goodness knows what that would be now.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputation?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
    For far too many police it seems to simply be a steady job for busybodies who want an easy life.

    That said, there are a number of police, probably in the minority but no less impressive for it, who really do put themselves on the front line in harm's way dealing with the most unpleasant aspects of our society.

    if only the problem was just busybodies who want an easy life!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    It's been a staple of PB discussion for at least a decade that government should be building, or facilitating the building of many more houses. And most political persuasions agree on that.
    I can only conclude that we've had remarkably useless government for at least the last decade.
    Tbf, that’s not the only piece of evidence.

    School policy, electricity generation, the constant costly bungling of HS2, the delays in getting FTTP rolled out and the mere existence of Dominic Cummings all point the same way.
    Agreed - but some of those have nonetheless been a matter of partisan argument.
    Does anyone disagree with the abject failure on housing ?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    Gnosall is only about fifteen miles from where I lived. I know it well.

    I was very surprised by the claim about rents so I checked prices round here.

    Genuinely staggered at the rates being asked for even modest houses. That’s a 50% increase on what I was paying just eight years ago.
    The underlying problem here is that policy on the private rented sector has been allowed to drift along with popular sentiment rather than facing reality. Unless the government act to incentivise people to rent out property (through tax breaks and deregulation), rents will continue to drift upwards due to constraints in supply as landlords are quitting the market en masse. This poses a dillemma for the government because they have been trying to pin the blame for the current situation on 'greedy landlords' rather than finding solutions through policy. If you look at the turnover of housing ministers it is absurd, it is a situation where effectively government have given up.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    You've already written off the current government ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Despite poll after poll, despite decades of improving race relations, despite many examples of this country's openness and compassion, a large chunk of the commentariat can't believe that voters here are both positive about foreign newcomers and hard-nosed about letting them in.

    https://twitter.com/damcou/status/1637469266881511427

    I was told by someone in the social services, that when the grooming gangs stuff began to come out, that the upper echelons panicked.

    They were talking about demanding suspension of civil rights, sending the army in, curfews etc. For the residents. Because they believed that the result wou
    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    It's been a staple of PB discussion for at least a decade that government should be building, or facilitating the building of many more houses. And most political persuasions agree on that.
    I can only conclude that we've had remarkably useless government for at least the last decade.
    Part of the problem is a near religious anti-development belief. We see people twisting themselves in knots to declare that building a couple of million homes will destroy the countryside, that claiming there is a housing shortage is racist, that all we need to do is evict second home owners/Fu Manchu* etc etc.

    France has a similar population, and with millions more homes doesn’t face anything like the same problem.

    Not building the homes is racist, as well.

    *It seems to be acceptable to be quite racist about foreign property owners.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    Ministers fear that Downing Street has “oversold” Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal amid concerns that the Democratic Unionist Party and Tory Eurosceptics will vote against it.

    This week the prime minister will put a critical aspect of his deal, the Windsor framework, to a vote in the Commons. While ministers are confident that they have the numbers to get it through, some in government are concerned that No 10 has “overpromised and underdelivered”.

    They raised concerns about the “Stormont brake”, which allows the government to veto new EU legislation if there are concerns in Northern Ireland. “The legislation isn’t what’s been sold,” a minister said. “The brake doesn’t really do much.”

    In a critical report, the European Research Group of MPs is expected to claim that the legal text of Sunak’s deal would in effect stop the UK from diverging from the EU because it would result in new barriers between Britain and Northern Ireland. It also dismisses the brake as “unusable”, warning that any block would have to be ultimately agreed by Brussels.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-over-promised-on-brexit-deal-ministers-fear-3f7dzpkw8

    Strangely, Sunak is almost the only person who believes in Global Britain and making Brexit work.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    If Johnson is found to be as innocent as he claims does Sunak feel obliged to walk?

    Why does an investigation into whether Johnson misled parliament have anything to do with the leader of the opposition?

    (Which Johnson absolutely did, bythe way. The only question is whether Tory MPs vote accordingly. It's an entirely political choice for them).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    edited March 2023
    Worth noting social housing isn't necessarily cheaper any more.
    Up 15% plus round here in a couple of weeks.
    Only advantages are secure tenancy and that they are fully covered by the housing component of UC. (Of less use if you are in work).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,037
    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    You've already written off the current government ?
    I'm not sure how much can be done in the next 18 months.

    Getting inflation down and interest rates trimmed a bit is, realistically, probably it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Different ears, but as though the one on the left has had a fair bit of surgery to try and look like him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    .

    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    You've already written off the current government ?
    I'm not sure how much can be done in the next 18 months.

    Getting inflation down and interest rates trimmed a bit is, realistically, probably it.
    That's hardly an excuse for continuing to ignore one if the country's more pressing problems.
    If they believed they had any chance at all of being re-elected, they'd be looking beyond the next 18 months. As any responsible government should in any event be doing.

    'Let's leave all the problems to the next lot' is an appalling attitude for a party which likes to call itself the natural party of government.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    ping said:

    Can’t say I’m particularly impressed with the relaunched ukpr.

    Lots of adverts and “sponsored posts” about startups and wotnot.

    It was good while it lasted, I guess.

    I got an email about it a month or so ago (I had commented many years ago, guess it meant AW kept my email despite GDPR coming along in the interval(!)) and had a look.
    Didn't bother bookmarking the site. Didn't think much of it.......
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    dixiedean said:

    Worth noting social housing isn't necessarily cheaper any more.
    Up 15% plus round here in a couple of weeks.
    Only advantages are secure tenancy and that they are fully covered by the housing component of UC. (Of less use if you are in work).

    Using rent control to deal with a shortage can only ever help a small number. And stuffs up the rest of housing provision - as seen all too many times round the world.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Betting question, did anyone look up the odds of there being no safety car in the F1 yesterday? My guess would have been 10/1 - and there was only the one, very contentious, SC in the end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,081
    Sandpit said:

    Different ears, but as though the one on the left has had a fair bit of surgery to try and look like him.
    Those ears look the same to me. Perhaps he hasn't got his lower denture in in the first picture.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Different ears, but as though the one on the left has had a fair bit of surgery to try and look like him.
    Those ears look the same to me. Perhaps he hasn't got his lower denture in in the first picture.
    He doesn't really do jaw jaw...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Different ears, but as though the one on the left has had a fair bit of surgery to try and look like him.
    Those ears look the same to me. Perhaps he hasn't got his lower denture in in the first picture.
    The conspiracy theories are silly, is the body double wearing fake ears?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Different ears, but as though the one on the left has had a fair bit of surgery to try and look like him.
    Those ears look the same to me. Perhaps he hasn't got his lower denture in in the first picture.
    Maybe that’s it. The more I look, the more I think they’re the same person. Forehead lines, for example.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited March 2023
    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial
  • RattersRatters Posts: 756
    The wiping out of the most junior bondholders in Credit Suisse, below that of equity holders, is going to have interesting repercussions for the banking sector.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,093
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    You've already written off the current government ?
    I'm not sure how much can be done in the next 18 months.

    Getting inflation down and interest rates trimmed a bit is, realistically, probably it.
    That's hardly an excuse for continuing to ignore one if the country's more pressing problems.
    If they believed they had any chance at all of being re-elected, they'd be looking beyond the next 18 months. As any responsible government should in any event be doing.

    'Let's leave all the problems to the next lot' is an appalling attitude for a party which likes to call itself the natural party of government.
    Though the budgetary plans have already done an awful lot of shoving difficult problems about 2-3 years into the future, set to be made worse if the government does the cut in the basic rate we're all(?) expecting them to try
    in 2024.

    And older homeowners with time to complain about things going on up their backyard are about the only Conservative voters left right now, so Sunak daren't annoy them.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited March 2023

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking;

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split ~80/20 in favour of our Sue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    The problem with that argument is she was only appointed because every other possible candidate - including the politically appointed Case - was under investigation.

    I agree it isn't a good look but the issue is the widespread flouting of the rules that Johnson not only took part in but actively encouraged.

    And then, patently, lied about.

    If he tries to move it onto this territory all that happens is he underlines how widespread the practice he said happened as a moment of madness was.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,404

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    His lies to Parliament are recorded in Hansard. We watched him say them on TV.

    Everything else is theatre, distraction and whataboutery.

    He's banged to rights.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Ratters said:

    The wiping out of the most junior bondholders in Credit Suisse, below that of equity holders, is going to have interesting repercussions for the banking sector.

    Yup, just saw that, seems like a mental idea, equity holders should always be first in line to get wiped out. Handing them 2.7bn francs is money they definitely don't deserve. Credit Suisse was insolvent. Very poor decision, UBS should have paid a maximum of 1 franc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    His lies to Parliament are recorded in Hansard. We watched him say them on TV.

    Everything else is theatre, distraction and whataboutery.

    He's banged to rights.
    Well, he's banged everything else.

    Ah, my coat...
  • ping said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking,

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split 80/20 in favour of our Sue.
    I have no doubt you are correct, but Burley seems to think it will be part of Johnson's defence on Wednesday
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    14bn in CoCos being zeroed out but shareholders get to keep 2.7bn, this absolutely stinks. I don't think we've seen the last of this one, expect it to go to court, UBS better have indemnity from the Swiss government.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    @IGcom
    2m
    *UBS SHARES FALL 10% AFTER AGREEING CREDIT SUISSE TAKEOVER
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    And unsurprisingly that uncertainty of where bondholders sit has done nothing to calm markets, in fact it's made everything worse.

    Well done Swiss government, what a fucking bang up job you've done here. Morons.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,093
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    The problem with that argument is she was only appointed because every other possible candidate - including the politically appointed Case - was under investigation.

    I agree it isn't a good look but the issue is the widespread flouting of the rules that Johnson not only took part in but actively encouraged.

    And then, patently, lied about.

    If he tries to move it onto this territory all that happens is he underlines how widespread the practice he said happened as a moment of madness was.
    It's clear that Johnson is fighting for his political life here. And we know that in those circumstances, he will say and do anything to survive. And anyone who gets in his way is fair game.

    I don't see how he survives this- the arithmetic is against him- but he may well leave a trail of destruction in his attempts to cling on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    edited March 2023

    ping said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking,

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split 80/20 in favour of our Sue.
    I have no doubt you are correct, but Burley seems to think it will be part of Johnson's defence on Wednesday
    Well, that's good, in its own way, because then he'll have to explain why there was so much lawbreaking going on among the Tories he could only find someone sympathetic to Labour to investigate.

    And I don't think he'll have much fun answering that...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    MaxPB said:

    And unsurprisingly that uncertainty of where bondholders sit has done nothing to calm markets, in fact it's made everything worse.

    Well done Swiss government, what a fucking bang up job you've done here. Morons.

    Surely they should have got all this straight, before the market opening this morning? Not a good look from the Swiss, and their somewhat diminishing reputation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Just checked into slack for 5 mins, one of our guys worked out that CS was probably worth €-18bn so UBS shares still have some way to fall.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    The problem with that argument is she was only appointed because every other possible candidate - including the politically appointed Case - was under investigation.

    I agree it isn't a good look but the issue is the widespread flouting of the rules that Johnson not only took part in but actively encouraged.

    And then, patently, lied about.

    If he tries to move it onto this territory all that happens is he underlines how widespread the practice he said happened as a moment of madness was.
    It's clear that Johnson is fighting for his political life here. And we know that in those circumstances, he will say and do anything to survive. And anyone who gets in his way is fair game.

    I don't see how he survives this- the arithmetic is against him- but he may well leave a trail of destruction in his attempts to cling on.
    It's worked for him for 35 years. Why would he change a winning formula?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    And unsurprisingly that uncertainty of where bondholders sit has done nothing to calm markets, in fact it's made everything worse.

    Well done Swiss government, what a fucking bang up job you've done here. Morons.

    Surely they should have got all this straight, before the market opening this morning? Not a good look from the Swiss, and their somewhat diminishing reputation.
    Yup companies who are reliant on debt financing or have negative shareholder equity post COVID are getting battered at the moment.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721
    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    The wiping out of the most junior bondholders in Credit Suisse, below that of equity holders, is going to have interesting repercussions for the banking sector.

    Yup, just saw that, seems like a mental idea, equity holders should always be first in line to get wiped out. Handing them 2.7bn francs is money they definitely don't deserve. Credit Suisse was insolvent. Very poor decision, UBS should have paid a maximum of 1 franc.
    Given that they are paying in UBS shares... maybe it will be just a franc in a couple of days time
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    We expect Boris Johnson’s legal defence to be published today ahead of his questioning by the privileges committee on Wednesday.

    He has already submitted the dossier to the committee, which will publish the document as soon as this afternoon. Johnson has no say in the timing.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1637725846948413440?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    I think the Swiss may have just triggered a full on financial crisis. Governments will need to clarify immediately that bondholders still sit above shareholders or the bond markets will just stop working for a while.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    .

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    You've already written off the current government ?
    I'm not sure how much can be done in the next 18 months.

    Getting inflation down and interest rates trimmed a bit is, realistically, probably it.
    That's hardly an excuse for continuing to ignore one if the country's more pressing problems.
    If they believed they had any chance at all of being re-elected, they'd be looking beyond the next 18 months. As any responsible government should in any event be doing.

    'Let's leave all the problems to the next lot' is an appalling attitude for a party which likes to call itself the natural party of government.
    Though the budgetary plans have already done an awful lot of shoving difficult problems about 2-3 years into the future, set to be made worse if the government does the cut in the basic rate we're all(?) expecting them to try
    in 2024.

    And older homeowners with time to complain about things going on up their backyard are about the only Conservative voters left right now, so Sunak daren't annoy them.
    It's not a party political point (though given the current lot have been in for over a decade, it might seem so), but I despise the attitude that hard decisions should be put off for political convenience.
    That's why, for example, our energy infrastructure is far worse than it might otherwise be.
    But you can probably come up with a dozen examples.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,773
    MaxPB said:

    14bn in CoCos being zeroed out but shareholders get to keep 2.7bn, this absolutely stinks. I don't think we've seen the last of this one, expect it to go to court, UBS better have indemnity from the Swiss government.

    They are claiming it wasn’t their decision
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,934
    ydoethur said:

    Britain’s biggest police force faces being broken up if it does not rapidly overhaul a toxic culture that will be exposed in an independent report tomorrow, The Times has learnt.

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock’s excoriating review — ordered after Sarah Everard was abducted, raped and murdered by the serving Metropolitan Police officer Wayne Couzens in 2021 — found institutional problems of sexism, racism and homophobia.

    Casey is expected to detail a culture of bullying, officers being placed under unbearable work pressure and a failure of the Met’s leadership to get to grips with a series of misconduct scandals.

    Whitehall sources said that the 300-page report was “do or die” for the Met, revealing that Casey had made a series of hard-hitting recommendations with the requirement that progress be monitored by a new oversight board, led by the mayor of London. They said the option was left open for more radical reform, including structural changes, if a drastic overhaul did not occur.

    There have long been calls for more specialist areas, such as the national counter-terrorism command, to be split off and subsumed by the National Crime Agency to allow the Met to get to grips with policing London.

    One source said “nothing is off the table” in the long term but added that it was crucial to give Sir Mark Rowley, who took over as the Met commissioner in September, time for reforms.

    Casey is understood to have uncovered widespread failings in every department she examined, including the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command. She will recommend that the unit, in which Couzens and the serial sex offender David Carrick both served, be “effectively disbanded”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-met-faces-being-broken-up-wghtk0rj9

    Isn't there a crisis in policing across the country? Can you name a single force that has a stellar reputstion?

    The Met is one of five forces in special measures. My own county force, Gloucestershire, is one of them, and having had some dealings with them recently I find that far from surprising.

    The whole police system across the country needs a thorough shake up. Step forward...

    Suella Braverman? :(
    Gloucestershire police could cut crime in half tomorrow just by committing rather less of it.

    As for the Met how many bloody chances does it need? Enough already. Break it up into five different forces each with their own Commissioner, Police Authority and PCC. That’s been needed for over 100 years.

    And at the same time, change the rules on disciplinary procedures so they are completed whether you resign or not (and that could be usefully applied in other fields as well, the way it is in teaching).
    How the flip would breaking up the Met help? Something needs to be done; breaking up the Met is something; therefore... But no word on how things will change along with the cap badge. Will the sub-Mets magically become better at policing, and less corrupt? I doubt it. No mechanism is offered. The government has no idea and a reorganisation will disguise that.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    The problem with that argument is she was only appointed because every other possible candidate - including the politically appointed Case - was under investigation.

    I agree it isn't a good look but the issue is the widespread flouting of the rules that Johnson not only took part in but actively encouraged.

    And then, patently, lied about.

    If he tries to move it onto this territory all that happeHe cons is he underlines how widespread the practice he said happened as a moment of madness was.
    It's clear that Johnson is fighting for his political life here. And we know that in those circumstances, he will say and do anything to survive. And anyone who gets in his way is fair game.

    I don't see how he survives this- the arithmetic is against him- but he may well leave a trail of destruction in his attempts to cling on.
    He could threaten to set up a Macron stye En Marche party for the next election which would destroy the tories. "By Jove"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,773
    MaxPB said:

    Just checked into slack for 5 mins, one of our guys worked out that CS was probably worth €-18bn so UBS shares still have some way to fall.

    If you have written off the bonds surely that goes down?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2023

    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    An apparent inflation rate over 20%. For significant parts of the country, life is becoming increasingly precarious.

    Cost of living: 'I never thought I'd be sofa-surfing at 74'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-64983317
    ...The letting agency has seen average rents increase from £989 per calendar month in January 2022, to £1,241 this January, yet there is no let-up in demand...

    Housing: if you own outright in this country you have reached the promised land. If you have a mortgage then you keep everything crossed that you don't get laid off - or that your wages don't fall so low that you can no longer afford to service it. If you rent then, unless you're lucky enough to be in social housing with a good provider, you are up the proverbial without a paddle.

    That septuagenarian who's sofa surfing is the harbinger of many millions in decades to come - have nots who couldn't afford to buy will be working til they drop to service extortionate rents, before ending up in hostels or sleeping rough in their 70s and 80s. A wholly avoidable humanitarian crisis, deliberately generated by Government policy.
    If that does happen then there will be (eventually) a left-wing government that turns property rights on its head and probably drives capital flight out of the country and a broader economic collapse.

    The next government must must must do something about the affordability of property.
    Most Conservative councils in the Home counties have produced Local Plans allowing for thousands more new houses to be developed.

    The main opposition to new housing comes from Residents' Associations, Independents and the Liberal Democrats not the Conservatives. See Chesham and Amersham and this ultra Nimby LD councillor

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1634525916125642752?s=20
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    Iceland did it right.

    A decade and a half of stupid economics trying to avoid pain has just created more pain.

    Idiots.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,753
    ping said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking;

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split ~80/20 in favour of our Sue.
    If Goodwin ran the poll:

    “Who do you trust more? Well meaning victim of witch hunt Boris Johnson or friend of Keir Starmer & future Labour chief of staff Sue Gray?”

    Probly still be 80/20 mind.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    Just checked into slack for 5 mins, one of our guys worked out that CS was probably worth €-18bn so UBS shares still have some way to fall.

    If you have written off the bonds surely that goes down?
    Hmm yes, I guess he didn't take that into account over the weekend lol.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,153
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking,

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split 80/20 in favour of our Sue.
    I have no doubt you are correct, but Burley seems to think it will be part of Johnson's defence on Wednesday
    Well, that's good, in its own way, because then he'll have to explain why there was so much lawbreaking going on among the Tories he could only find someone sympathetic to Labour to investigate.

    And I don't think he'll have much fun answering that...
    Als\o someone whom Mr J praised to the skies as being competent, independent, etc. if I recall rightly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kwasi, showing all the judgment he displayed as Chancellor, is still team Boris.

    Kwarteng: Johnson could survive Partygate grilling and lead Tories again
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/19/us-china-russia-relations-00087633

    And he is not entirely alone.
    ...Johnson’s supporters have long sought to discredit the inquiry. Over the weekend, they stepped up their attacks on the inquiry that all MPs voted to begin last April.

    Lord Cruddas, a former Tory party treasurer to whom Johnson gave a peerage in 2020, has urged the privileges committee not to rely on a report into the illegal parties compiled by the senior civil servant Sue Gray, given she later took up a job offer from Labour.

    A petition was also launched by the Conservative Post website, which called on the four Tory MPs who make up the majority of committee members to withdraw...
    Cruddas is a genuine basket case. His ravings when Boris stood down were absurd in their understand of the law and politics.

    I get thinking Boris is the best leader and ousting him being a mistake, I get being persuaded by the legal justifications, but he goes well beyond that.

    Personally I think pressuring the committee members is a mistake. It's as good as attacking their integrity by implying they are bent if they do not do what Boris wants.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,093
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    The problem with that argument is she was only appointed because every other possible candidate - including the politically appointed Case - was under investigation.

    I agree it isn't a good look but the issue is the widespread flouting of the rules that Johnson not only took part in but actively encouraged.

    And then, patently, lied about.

    If he tries to move it onto this territory all that happens is he underlines how widespread the practice he said happened as a moment of madness was.
    It's clear that Johnson is fighting for his political life here. And we know that in those circumstances, he will say and do anything to survive. And anyone who gets in his way is fair game.

    I don't see how he survives this- the arithmetic is against him- but he may well leave a trail of destruction in his attempts to cling on.
    It's worked for him for 35 years. Why would he change a winning formula?
    He should because he's playing a different game in a different climate.

    He's not broken unwritten rules here, so the pile of bluster approach won't work. And he's yesterday's man not heir apparent, so the unsubtle bullying won't work either.

    A bit like a music hall turn failing to adapt to the advent of television, Johnson was to arrogant / lazy / incapable to keep his act fresh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    ping said:

    Good morning

    Listening to the news this morning I expect this week is going to be very dramatic and it looks as if Johnson has Harriet Harman and Sue Gray in his sights

    Kay Burley said that Sue Gray was talking to Labour at the same time as she was advising the committee looking into Johnson and it doesn't look good (her words, not mine)

    I have no respect for Johnson whatsoever and would be delighted if he faced a recall but this is going to be hugely controversial

    On the off chance any pollsters are lurking;

    “Who do you trust more? Boris Johnson or Sue Gray?”

    Would make for an interesting question.

    I recon the public would split ~80/20 in favour of our Sue.
    If Goodwin ran the poll:

    “Who do you trust more? Well meaning victim of witch hunt Boris Johnson or friend of Keir Starmer & future Labour chief of staff Sue Gray?”

    Probly still be 80/20 mind.
    What on Earth was Starmer thinking, hiring Sue Gray while all this Johnson stuff was still ongoing?

    It looks terrible, and is going to give the Tories the opportunity to question the timeline, in an attempt to discredit her as a political stooge.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    MaxPB said:

    And unsurprisingly that uncertainty of where bondholders sit has done nothing to calm markets, in fact it's made everything worse.

    Well done Swiss government, what a fucking bang up job you've done here. Morons.

    Legislating to bypass shareholders in order to force the takeover, without considering the bondholders, which seems to be the case, was a serious mistake.
    A fair accompli is fine when there's no concern over values (SVB UK), but otherwise it's just deferring dealing with the problem.

    Probably would have been much cheaper to sort out in the medium term, if the government had just taken on the problem itself.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Whatever else happens, I think today Switzerland has lost its reputation for boring competence. There were so many other ways to handle this, chiefly a depositor bail out and letting everything else burn or even giving UBS 15bn to buy it for 1 franc would probably have worked.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,776
    MaxPB said:

    I think the Swiss may have just triggered a full on financial crisis. Governments will need to clarify immediately that bondholders still sit above shareholders or the bond markets will just stop working for a while.

    How can they not? Bonds are debts owed by the company. The shareholders get what's left when the debts are paid, in this case less than nothing. The position adopted by the Swiss government here is bizarre and eccentric.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    We expect Boris Johnson’s legal defence to be published today ahead of his questioning by the privileges committee on Wednesday.

    He has already submitted the dossier to the committee, which will publish the document as soon as this afternoon. Johnson has no say in the timing.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1637725846948413440?s=20

    I wonder if it will be that different from his last attempt. It had some interesting arguments, as youd hope from expensive legal advice, and got a lot of people very excited, but the Committees response to it was a very clear takedown.

    Of course its purpose is to bolster the vote against any sanction, if any is recommended - if it persuades any committee members that would be a bonus.
This discussion has been closed.