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The 2023 Budget – open thread – politicalbetting.com

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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited March 2023

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    Nigelb said:

    TEMPORARY full capital expensing for next three years. Big deal for big firms. Big mistake doing it temporarily - brings forward firms investment rather than increasing it
    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1635989754305998848

    Bringing it forward temporarily means much bigger economic growth in the run up to the election though....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,864
    Stocky said:

    Not sure how the abolition of the pensions lifetime allowance will go down.

    Potentially giving lots of extra money to already wealthy people.

    It will benefit two classes of people: 1) higher paid public sector DB members and 2) private sector city types who dump bonuses into DC schemes.

    Regarding 2) - I've not watched the budget - is there still annual allowances which will restrict 2) above.
    Hiked to 60k. All in all some nice extras for the relatively affluent. Good solid tory measure.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,919
    edited March 2023

    Phil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.

    The SpaceX Starship program is probably going to cost £8 billion, to develop. So we could have a moon rocket, land some British astronauts on the moon, and probably have £80 billion left over.
    I suspect the cost of HS2 has been roughly doubled by Treasury shenanigans alone.

    If we were serious about infrastructure investment in this country then it wouldn’t cost us any where near as much.
    More likely the cost estimates the Treasury bought into were half what they should have been.
    No, it was the Treasury that insisted on shifting all risk in the construction contracts onto the contractors, meaning that they promptly turned around and got quotes to insure against said risk (no one wants to carry a multi-decade multi-$billion potential liability on their books) and added that back onto the contracts. Which meant that the government paid to insure itself against a long term risk - the one thing that a government can always do far more cheaply in house.

    It was the Treasury that kept insisting on shaving bits off the scheme & lengthening the construction time in order to save £ in the short term, all of which simply lead to the whole scheme costing far more over the full length of construction.

    Treasury brain is a scourge upon this country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited March 2023

    Just imagine if Hunt had won in 2019.

    We would have competent government since then.

    We might also have Corbyn as PM though, with the 2019 general election producing another hung parliament, redwall seats staying Labour and the SNP giving a minority Corbyn government confidence and supply after still gaining 7 seats from the SCons. Brexit would also never have happened with no Conservative majority as Boris won in 2019
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
  • Some very sensible measures for the poor - childcare, prepayment meters etc are sensible to resolve.

    Some very sensible measures the the affluent - pensions cliff edges etc are sensible to resolve.

    Over all a pretty reasonable Budget for the extremes, nothing immediately standing out as a negative, but not sure what was there for anyone in the middle.
  • MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Did you get the email from Larry Fink?

    The chairman of the world’s largest asset manager has warned of the threat of a “slow-rolling” financial crisis triggered by the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank as investors sold off shares in the embattled lender Credit Suisse.

    Larry Fink, the chairman of BlackRock, said in a letter to investors that the environment of rapidly rising interest rates had historically “led to spectacular financial flameouts” which could repeat after the collapse of the US technology lender SVB last week and Sovereign Bank over the weekend.

    “We don’t know yet whether the consequences of easy money and regulatory changes will cascade throughout the US regional banking sector . . . with more seizures and shutdowns coming,” he said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/svb-fall-could-cause-slow-rolling-financial-crisis-says-larry-fink-cxhnxmfqr
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Stewart Hosie of the SNP actually critiquing the budget, unlike the parade of cliches “here’s one I wrote earlier” from Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited March 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good ideas there but nothing dramatic, certainly on tax.

    Rather a shrug shoulders budget in essence

    It was a budget very much of a chancellor who wants to minimize defeat and then, as leader, conduct a party rebuilding project as a 'safe pair of hands'.
    Hunt's only chance of being next Conservative leader is if Sunak gets a shock re election. If not he goes down on the ship with Rishi as Chancellor to Rishi's PM, they will be blamed for the defeat and the members will vote for a more rightwing leader after Rishi resigns
    I wonder if Liz Truss would throw her hat in the ring again. The view 'It wasn't her fault; the Bank of England crashed the markets' has a niche following on here, but it would be interesting to know how widespread it is within the Tory membership. Not as unusual as all that would be my guess.
    Kemi Badenoch is more likely to win the membership vote now than Truss. I can't even see her getting enough MPs to get to the final 2, indeed the likes of Barclay and Tugendhat and Mordaunt would get more now
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.

    The SpaceX Starship program is probably going to cost £8 billion, to develop. So we could have a moon rocket, land some British astronauts on the moon, and probably have £80 billion left over.
    Yes, but can the astronauts commute between RAE Farnborough and Waterloo reliably?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964

    Just imagine if Hunt had won in 2019.

    We would have competent government since then.

    Or....he would have done a May, buggered up the election - and we would be into Year 4 of the Corbyn Year Zero Government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.
    .
    But how many passengers can you squeeze into a 6.1 inch shell???
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Geri Colombe Beaten 😯
  • Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    edited March 2023

    Can we please stop saying 'the UK is the only G7 economy which is still smaller than it was before the pandemic'?

    This is no longer true, after German GDP was revised down... 🤓


    https://twitter.com/julianhjessop/status/1635991791538192385

    'Hooray, Germany is just as bad as us' was the triumphant cry.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    I'm sure we will be told any European banking crash is down to Brexit.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775
    edited March 2023
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    TEMPORARY full capital expensing for next three years. Big deal for big firms. Big mistake doing it temporarily - brings forward firms investment rather than increasing it
    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1635989754305998848

    I think that's an OBR enforced measure. I'll bet he wanted it to be made permanent and in any case I'd be surprised if it was removed, full expensing will just become part of doing business here as it is in the US.
    Hmm. There are a few things like that - chance of the 5p going back onto fuel duty must be slim, but it will be in the budget documents as more income from next year onwards to make the future path of the deficit look better.

    I know there's a venerable history of temporary British budget measures, that are still technically temporary, but everyone understands that they aren't. I wonder at what point the OBR have to start producing projections on the assumption that such supposedly temporary measures, that are constantly renewed, are actually permanent?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    Phil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.

    The SpaceX Starship program is probably going to cost £8 billion, to develop. So we could have a moon rocket, land some British astronauts on the moon, and probably have £80 billion left over.
    I suspect the cost of HS2 has been roughly doubled by Treasury shenanigans alone.

    If we were serious about infrastructure investment in this country then it wouldn’t cost us any where near as much.
    A big part of the problem is that projects are engineered politically. The work is turned into a pyramid of contracts. At each level there is a profit.

    The classic moment was when Elon Musk got summoned to Washington by Richard Shelby. This was as commercial cargo for the space station was approaching first launch.

    Up till then, SpaceX had been a small player. It was ok then for them to award contracts to suppliers based on stupid criteria like cost, quality etc

    Shelby had a list of politically connected suppliers who had not got SpaceX sub contracts. And made it clear that if SpaceX didn’t spread the money properly…

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They may not have branches (in south Devon, my nearest is the still-branded Drummonds branch in Trafalgar Square). But they still have an existence independent of NatWest.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    I'm sure we will be told any European banking crash is down to Brexit.
    You must be guest editing the FT next week.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They may not have branches (in south Devon, my nearest is the still-branded Drummonds branch in Trafalgar Square). But they still have an existence independent of NatWest.
    Subsidiary at best?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    I'm sure we will be told any European banking crash is down to Brexit.
    Doesn't an £80,000 rule exist on British banks at the moment?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,548

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.
    .
    But how many passengers can you squeeze into a 6.1 inch shell???
    According to some articles on the Internet, it's more of a question how 6.2 inch shells you can shove up a passenger...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/artillery-shell-rectum-bum-squad-twitter-reaction_uk_61aa265fe4b0f398af204204
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/world-news/france-hospital-evacuated-man-has-ww1-shell-up-anus/

    (I've no idea about the veracity of these stories. And am not keen for any demonstrations...)
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,864
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good ideas there but nothing dramatic, certainly on tax.

    Rather a shrug shoulders budget in essence

    It was a budget very much of a chancellor who wants to minimize defeat and then, as leader, conduct a party rebuilding project as a 'safe pair of hands'.
    Hunt's only chance of being next Conservative leader is if Sunak gets a shock re election. If not he goes down on the ship with Rishi as Chancellor to Rishi's PM, they will be blamed for the defeat and the members will vote for a more rightwing leader after Rishi resigns
    I wonder if Liz Truss would throw her hat in the ring again. The view 'It wasn't her fault; the Bank of England crashed the markets' has a niche following on here, but it would be interesting to know how widespread it is within the Tory membership. Not as unusual as all that would be my guess.
    Kemi Badenoch is more likely to win the membership vote now than Truss. I can't even see her getting enough MPs to get to the final 2, indeed the likes of Barclay and Tugendhat and Mordaunt would get more now
    Next Con Leader is a 'lay all the favs' market at this point imo. Esp Badenoch, Johnson, Wallace.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.
    .
    But how many passengers can you squeeze into a 6.1 inch shell???
    According to some articles on the Internet, it's more of a question how 6.2 inch shells you can shove up a passenger...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/artillery-shell-rectum-bum-squad-twitter-reaction_uk_61aa265fe4b0f398af204204
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/world-news/france-hospital-evacuated-man-has-ww1-shell-up-anus/

    (I've no idea about the veracity of these stories. And am not keen for any demonstrations...)
    Those are 57mm (6 pounder) and maybe a 47mm shell I think. Not 155mm ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20
  • MaxPB said:

    He really is no Blair.

    Yes. Not a posh public schoolboy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    I wouldn’t take Douche Bank for less than you paying me one HS2 to do so.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    Can we please stop saying 'the UK is the only G7 economy which is still smaller than it was before the pandemic'?

    This is no longer true, after German GDP was revised down... 🤓


    https://twitter.com/julianhjessop/status/1635991791538192385

    'Hooray, Germany is just as bad as us' was the triumphant cry.
    Not triumphant, but realistic.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited March 2023
    cancelled

  • ReedReed Posts: 152

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,235

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
    If you're really bored interested you can read all 123 pages of their accounts.

    https://tinyurl.com/aj5uwhnk
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.

    The SpaceX Starship program is probably going to cost £8 billion, to develop. So we could have a moon rocket, land some British astronauts on the moon, and probably have £80 billion left over.
    Yes, but can the astronauts commute between RAE Farnborough and Waterloo reliably?
    Fixed that yesterday - Pascal B etc

    Plus we launch from central Slough. Alternate launch site in central Bedford. On both cases, launching a rocket larger than Saturn 5 will do billions in improvements to the locality.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.
    .
    But how many passengers can you squeeze into a 6.1 inch shell???
    According to some articles on the Internet, it's more of a question how 6.2 inch shells you can shove up a passenger...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/artillery-shell-rectum-bum-squad-twitter-reaction_uk_61aa265fe4b0f398af204204
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/world-news/france-hospital-evacuated-man-has-ww1-shell-up-anus/

    (I've no idea about the veracity of these stories. And am not keen for any demonstrations...)
    155 mm is 6.1 inches, not 6.2!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,864
    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    The tory core are quite into women staying at home, I'd have thought.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    "Credit Suisse shares down by a quarter, key backer says no more money"

    https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/credit-suisse-shares-drop-fresh-record-low-cds-widen-2023-03-15/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They stopped pretending tehy were Scottish and reverted to their takeover English bank name of NWG.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,548
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.
    .
    But how many passengers can you squeeze into a 6.1 inch shell???
    According to some articles on the Internet, it's more of a question how 6.2 inch shells you can shove up a passenger...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/artillery-shell-rectum-bum-squad-twitter-reaction_uk_61aa265fe4b0f398af204204
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/world-news/france-hospital-evacuated-man-has-ww1-shell-up-anus/

    (I've no idea about the veracity of these stories. And am not keen for any demonstrations...)
    Those are 57mm (6 pounder) and maybe a 47mm shell I think. Not 155mm ...
    It was a joke... ;)

    Though someone's probably tried.

    As a sad aside, there's pictures from the Ukrainian wat showing soldiers with live shells sticking out of them, being operated on. Brave surgeons...
  • ReedReed Posts: 152

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Did you get the email from Larry Fink?

    The chairman of the world’s largest asset manager has warned of the threat of a “slow-rolling” financial crisis triggered by the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank as investors sold off shares in the embattled lender Credit Suisse.

    Larry Fink, the chairman of BlackRock, said in a letter to investors that the environment of rapidly rising interest rates had historically “led to spectacular financial flameouts” which could repeat after the collapse of the US technology lender SVB last week and Sovereign Bank over the weekend.

    “We don’t know yet whether the consequences of easy money and regulatory changes will cascade throughout the US regional banking sector . . . with more seizures and shutdowns coming,” he said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/svb-fall-could-cause-slow-rolling-financial-crisis-says-larry-fink-cxhnxmfqr
    a banking crash on the torys watch on top of everything else will see their polling drop to around 15% and be truly existential for them. Elderly asset owners are the conservative core vote.
  • Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Nothing for hospitality which is also struggling?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,864
    edited March 2023

    MaxPB said:

    He really is no Blair.

    Yes. Not a posh public schoolboy.
    And not (as yet) up the backside of a right wing American president.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964

    Stewart Hosie of the SNP actually critiquing the budget, unlike the parade of cliches “here’s one I wrote earlier” from Starmer.

    If he's doing a half-decent job, he could be party leader by year end....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161
    edited March 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
    If you're really bored interested you can read all 123 pages of their accounts.

    https://tinyurl.com/aj5uwhnk
    I'm compiling an index for a book at the moment - so I daren't let myself get distracted by something so exciting.

    I did have a moment of worry re the FSCS and checked bank brands in view of the paqrallel diswcussion - and find that RBS and NW are almost, though surprisingly enough not completely, separate - there is one NW account whcih is regarded as being with NW so if you have more than 85K in the two ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    They only exist now like "Scottish Labour Party" or "Scottish Conservative Party" in that they are a subregional subsidiary of the English parent.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    I'm sure we will be told any European banking crash is down to Brexit.
    Doesn't an £80,000 rule exist on British banks at the moment?
    Yes, although it is £85,000 rather than £80,000. What you have to be careful of is that it is for each parent company. So if you have money in a number of banks/building societies but they are all owned by the same parent company overall, you only get protection for a single £85,000 amount, not multiple amounts. If you are going to spread your money around to improve government protection then make sure you look at who actually owns the institutions you are putting your money into.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited March 2023
    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    A fair point, although I’m not sure it’s that simple. You’re kindof right, though - if there is a coherent principle behind tory policy, it’s propping up the asset values of their backers and client vote. That’s the inviolable principle underpinning their policy agenda.

    Welcome to the site.
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    kinabalu said:

    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    The tory core are quite into women staying at home, I'd have thought.
    yes but not at the expense of their property prices
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    "Wall Street Silver
    @WallStreetSilv

    Credit Suisse now has a probability of default of 47%. That is up from 38% just a few hours ago.

    $CS is also offering crazy deposit rates of 6.5% to attract and retain deposits that are being moved out.

    Do we see a bailout by this weekend ???"

    https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1636002341408186368
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,160
    edited March 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    I believe they need to keep that entity in order to keep printing their Scottish monopoly money bank notes?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Not problematic at all just bloody sensible. It’s a drag on economy and growth business crying out for skills they can’t get is holding our country back.

    It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills!

    The best in the business of building trade support right now are Albanians, they built the Balkans. And so many already here, so wont have to pay travel over cost.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited March 2023
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    They will need to have seen pay rises to meet the likely requirements:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations

    And the Government can, of course, adjust these numbers.

    Also, we will be able to take workers from all countries, based on skill not European-ness.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    The childcare is the best policy in budget. The cost and availability of childcare is holding our economy back.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited March 2023
    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    Property prices north of the Watford gap are far cheaper, it is more rising energy and food bills etc the issue for them (property prices are starting to fall this year anyway).

    More child benefit for a parent who wants to stay home with the children and increased married couples' tax allowance would also be good rather than just more funds for working parents' childcare costs
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    edited March 2023
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally pretty cool on government giving out massive sweeties - because ir's not a giveaway, it's a redistribution, and though there are strong cases for redistribution, redistribution does not tend to make us, collectively, richer.
    But if the government does go ahead with the proposed 30 hours free childcare for 1 and 2 year olds (extending fron what 3 year olds currently get) it will be the best public spending commitment of my lifetime (the special and conplex case of furlough aside).
    I won't personally be affected - I'm through that stage now. But the cost of childcare - along with the cost of housing - effectively makes raising the next generation almost unafforable apart from the very rich or very poor.
    I am massively supportive of this.
    If they can now go on and announce a massive programme of housebuilding (essential) and investment in transport infrastructure (personal hobbyhorse) then I can maybe be convinced that the state can be a force for good.

    I think the spectacularly high expense of HS2 was laid bare on the radio this morning with the 76 - 100 billion odd it's now going to cost (And the rest) juxtaposed against the 3 billion odd this childcare is going to cost p.a.

    I know one is capex and the other is ongoing cost - but still !
    If railways continue to cost 100s of billions, then we won’t have many more railways.

    To give an example - the marginal cost of a 155mm shell is £500, in mass production. So for a billion pounds, we could stockpile 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition.

    The SpaceX Starship program is probably going to cost £8 billion, to develop. So we could have a moon rocket, land some British astronauts on the moon, and probably have £80 billion left over.
    I suspect the cost of HS2 has been roughly doubled by Treasury shenanigans alone.

    If we were serious about infrastructure investment in this country then it wouldn’t cost us any where near as much.
    More likely the cost estimates the Treasury bought into were half what they should have been.
    No, it was the Treasury that insisted on shifting all risk in the construction contracts onto the contractors, meaning that they promptly turned around and got quotes to insure against said risk (no one wants to carry a multi-decade multi-$billion potential liability on their books) and added that back onto the contracts. Which meant that the government paid to insure itself against a long term risk - the one thing that a government can always do far more cheaply in house.

    It was the Treasury that kept insisting on shaving bits off the scheme & lengthening the construction time in order to save £ in the short term, all of which simply lead to the whole scheme costing far more over the full length of construction.

    Treasury brain is a scourge upon this country.
    "The capital construction cost of the phase one London to West Midlands infrastructure is estimated at between £15.4 billion and £17.3 billion, with a mean value of £16.3 billion."

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69741/hs2-cost-and-risk-model-report.pdf

    March 2012

    Lolololololol
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    Not sure about this one though:

    "3421 Graphic designers – all jobs England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland 80% of going rate: £18,800(£9.27 per hour)"

    A job that can most often be done remotely.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Nothing for hospitality which is also struggling?
    Too conspicuous. Lets migration cat out of bag voter-wise. Polish plumber down in the building site is one thing. Polish waitperson or beer-puller another.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
    If you're really bored interested you can read all 123 pages of their accounts.

    https://tinyurl.com/aj5uwhnk
    I'm compiling an index for a book at the moment - so I daren't let myself get distracted by something so exciting.

    I did have a moment of worry re the FSCS and checked bank brands in view of the paqrallel diswcussion - and find that RBS and NW are almost, though surprisingly enough not completely, separate - there is one NW account whcih is regarded as being with NW so if you have more than 85K in the two ...
    It's one of those grey areas that could be doing with a bit of clearing up.

    It could messy if you've got accounts with Bank of Scotland and Halifax which are part of the wider Lloyds Banking Group.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited March 2023
    Has he kept the corporation tax hike?
  • malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    They only exist now like "Scottish Labour Party" or "Scottish Conservative Party" in that they are a subregional subsidiary of the English parent.
    Tell me you know nothing about the subject without telling me you know nothing about the subject.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    Stocky said:

    Has he kept the corporation tax hike?

    Yes.
  • MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    It's also a policy that will fail the moment the shit hits the fan, which means that unplanned emergency support will be granted instead.

    If anyone actually believes that if DB fails the German Government will just stand back and do nothing, then they need to put down the drugs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,161
    edited March 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
    If you're really bored interested you can read all 123 pages of their accounts.

    https://tinyurl.com/aj5uwhnk
    I'm compiling an index for a book at the moment - so I daren't let myself get distracted by something so exciting.

    I did have a moment of worry re the FSCS and checked bank brands in view of the paqrallel diswcussion - and find that RBS and NW are almost, though surprisingly enough not completely, separate - there is one NW account whcih is regarded as being with NW so if you have more than 85K in the two ...
    It's one of those grey areas that could be doing with a bit of clearing up.

    It could messy if you've got accounts with Bank of Scotland and Halifax which are part of the wider Lloyds Banking Group.
    I know. I've got at least one account which seems to hop between the two at random.

    Edit: Have to check FSCS list carefully - no other way to do it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited March 2023

    Stocky said:

    Has he kept the corporation tax hike?

    Yes.
    Gosh - I had a feeling he'd at least moderate that.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,235

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Not problematic at all just bloody sensible. It’s a drag on economy and growth business crying out for skills they can’t get is holding our country back.

    It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills!

    The best in the business of building trade support right now are Albanians, they built the Balkans. And so many already here, so wont have to pay travel over cost.
    I was thinking problematic because it would see working-class Brexit voters having their wages undercut by immigrants, and these were the people who voted Boris in 2019. But actually stuff 'em. It's the market at work, and there's no room for sentimentality in a global economy.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 815
    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    Why women?
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    HYUFD said:

    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    Property prices north of the Watford gap are far cheaper, it is more rising energy and food bills etc the issue for them (property prices are starting to fall this year anyway).

    More child benefit for a parent who wants to stay home with the children and increased married couples' tax allowance would also be good rather than just more funds for working parents' childcare costs
    property prices in the north still require 2 people working earning both at least an average wage to afford anything beyond the worst properties in the worst areas. A single person....forget it unless you are on a massive salary.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Roger said:

    cancelled

    About time. 🤭
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.
    Royal Bank of Scotland will now be able to get all those brilliant bargains they didn't manage 15-20 years ago....

    "DB for a £1, anyone?

    We'll take 50p...."
    RBS don't exisat any more ...
    They do.
    Only as a trading name of NatWest I thought?
    Yes and no.

    The parent group became the Natwest Group however the RBS brand and as a distinct legal entity RBS still exists.
    Thanks.
    If you're really bored interested you can read all 123 pages of their accounts.

    https://tinyurl.com/aj5uwhnk
    I'm compiling an index for a book at the moment - so I daren't let myself get distracted by something so exciting.

    I did have a moment of worry re the FSCS and checked bank brands in view of the paqrallel diswcussion - and find that RBS and NW are almost, though surprisingly enough not completely, separate - there is one NW account whcih is regarded as being with NW so if you have more than 85K in the two ...
    It's one of those grey areas that could be doing with a bit of clearing up.

    It could messy if you've got accounts with Bank of Scotland and Halifax which are part of the wider Lloyds Banking Group.
    I know. I've got at least one account which seems to hop between the two at random.
    It is a known issue with the Halifax and BOS apps.

    Why can I see my Halifax account here/BOS account here is a common call to HBOS call centres.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Stocky said:

    Has he kept the corporation tax hike?

    Yes. He has tempered it somewhat by allowing for full expensing of investment in IT and plant.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,916

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Still creates British jobs though, all those Home Office officials who have to get paid to badly handle the visa applications.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer's voice is extremely irritating.

    Killer point.
    However he tries to dress it up MaxPB is essentially a city boy earning well above what most people dream of but wants a bigger slice of the cake for himself
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    edited March 2023
    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    So in the EU if a bank has a run the plan is to protect the insured deposits by raiding the uninsured? Wouldn't that make a run more likely? i.e. Get out before your losses are increased by the regulations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    There hasn’t been a state bailout of depositors. If the assets at the end of the process aren’t enough to cover the depositors, the other *banks* are on the hook via the FDIC.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    So in the EU if a bank has a run the plan is to protect the insured deposits by raiding the unisured? Wouldn't that make a run more likely? i.e. Get out before your losses are increased by the regulations.
    Yes
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    HYUFD said:

    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    Property prices north of the Watford gap are far cheaper, it is more rising energy and food bills etc the issue for them (property prices are starting to fall this year anyway).

    More child benefit for a parent who wants to stay home with the children and increased married couples' tax allowance would also be good rather than just more funds for working parents' childcare costs
    By keeping in work a woman will however be able to keep their career in a way that is often impossible if they step away from the workforce for a few years.

    Note - I'm not commenting on whether that should be the case or not - just the reality of the situation.
  • ReedReed Posts: 152

    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    The childcare is the best policy in budget. The cost and availability of childcare is holding our economy back.
    well thats looking at things in purely monetary terms...and by holding the economy back i think you mean holding the economy back for the tory partys rich donors.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    So in the EU if a bank has a run the plan is to protect the insured deposits by raiding the unisured? Wouldn't that make a run more likely? i.e. Get out before your losses are increased by the regulations.
    Yes, it's why the UK opposed it but the EU needed regulations to justify stealing the deposits of Greek account holders to bail out French and German bond holders.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Not problematic at all just bloody sensible. It’s a drag on economy and growth business crying out for skills they can’t get is holding our country back.

    It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills! The best in the business of building trade support right now are Albanians, they built the Balkans. And so many already here, so wont have to pay travel over cost.
    I was thinking problematic because it would see working-class Brexit voters having their wages undercut by immigrants, and these were the people who voted Boris in 2019. But actually stuff 'em. It's the market at work, and there's no room for sentimentality in a global economy.
    Let’s be straight and honest here. What Hunt has put in his budget today is let’s give Albanians jobs in our building industry. If we didn’t Brexit they would already be in the jobs.

    Brexit drawbridge being brought down bit by bit by the Tories now. It was inevitable. It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills and expensive tastes in welfare and public services.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    edited March 2023
    Taz said:

    Pension lifetime allowance abolished.

    For the few not the many
    I quite like Hunt, a sensible guy compared to what has gone before but surely that's how the opposition parties will spin it. Tax cuts for those that have well over a million to put into their pension pots.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Interesting comment from the OBR presentation - if Hunt were to make the capital allowances permanent beyond the initial 3 years it would cost £10bn/year - which he’s not in a position to do yet, without breaching “the rules”…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    It's also a policy that will fail the moment the shit hits the fan, which means that unplanned emergency support will be granted instead.

    If anyone actually believes that if DB fails the German Government will just stand back and do nothing, then they need to put down the drugs.
    If Douche Bank goes down, my opinion is that the resulting unravelling of shot will do an Italian Job on German politics. There will be about 5 German politicians left.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited March 2023
    Meanwhile, back to what really matters. My daily free bet is on Red Risk at 40-1 the Coral Cup.
  • MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    So in the EU if a bank has a run the plan is to protect the insured deposits by raiding the unisured? Wouldn't that make a run more likely? i.e. Get out before your losses are increased by the regulations.
    Yes, it's why the UK opposed it but the EU needed regulations to justify stealing the deposits of Greek account holders to bail out French and German bond holders.
    Yep, the worst and most nasty politics.

    The bond holders should have been the first to be burnt, but much of the Eurozone crisis was instead led by how to stop that.
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    ftse down another 3% today thats about 8% in a week.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    I hate the Swiss, they've ruined my week.

    I think we're slowly heading for another banking crash in Europe. I don't understand why they didn't use the last decade to do the same thing as we did and force the banks to hold a lot more capital and reduce their balance sheet sizes. I feel like they got so caught up in attempting to be competitive with the City and attempting to make the City less competitive they forgot to properly regulate their sector.

    What's going to be really tough in Europe is the existence of the BRRD, if a major bank fails in Europe the BRRD will enforce the €100k insurance limit and prevent a depositor bail out by the state. If I had significant money in any European bank I'd be looking to get all but €100k out of the EU and into the UK asap.
    Sorry £85,000 insurance on British banks

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/deposit-savings-protection
    Yes, but out of the EU there's no regulation to prevent a state bailout of depositors should it come to it as Biden has done in the US. In the EU the rules state that uninsured deposits must be used to bail in banks before the state can intervene. It's a mental policy and the UK objected to it at the time yet they ploughed ahead anyway.
    So in the EU if a bank has a run the plan is to protect the insured deposits by raiding the uninsured? Wouldn't that make a run more likely? i.e. Get out before your losses are increased by the regulations.
    So by the end of next week, £100 will be worth 17,412 Euros.

    And will buy you the entire EU banking sector.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Not problematic at all just bloody sensible. It’s a drag on economy and growth business crying out for skills they can’t get is holding our country back.

    It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills! The best in the business of building trade support right now are Albanians, they built the Balkans. And so many already here, so wont have to pay travel over cost.
    I was thinking problematic because it would see working-class Brexit voters having their wages undercut by immigrants, and these were the people who voted Boris in 2019. But actually stuff 'em. It's the market at work, and there's no room for sentimentality in a global economy.
    Let’s be straight and honest here. What Hunt has put in his budget today is let’s give Albanians jobs in our building industry. If we didn’t Brexit they would already be in the jobs.

    Brexit drawbridge being brought down bit by bit by the Tories now. It was inevitable. It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills and expensive tastes in welfare and public services.
    That's EU member state Albania?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,235

    Deep in Budget red book, govt adds construction workers to “shortage occupation list” making it easier for firms to bring in foreign workers. Just the start. Govt promises firms will have “access to skills and talent from abroad where needed”

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1636010658264231940?s=20

    Hmm. Problematic. This is one of the very sectors that we were told would be reaping huge pay rises now that competition from cheap foreign labour has been obliterated.
    Not problematic at all just bloody sensible. It’s a drag on economy and growth business crying out for skills they can’t get is holding our country back.

    It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills! The best in the business of building trade support right now are Albanians, they built the Balkans. And so many already here, so wont have to pay travel over cost.
    I was thinking problematic because it would see working-class Brexit voters having their wages undercut by immigrants, and these were the people who voted Boris in 2019. But actually stuff 'em. It's the market at work, and there's no room for sentimentality in a global economy.
    Let’s be straight and honest here. What Hunt has put in his budget today is let’s give Albanians jobs in our building industry. If we didn’t Brexit they would already be in the jobs.

    Brexit drawbridge being brought down bit by bit by the Tories now. It was inevitable. It’s important to have growth and an economy as it pays for all our bills and expensive tastes in welfare and public services.
    Yes, the anti-immigration crowd will no doubt come out with the mealy-mouthed 'But it's different because Mr Hunt is making the decision not the EU', but if you ask me if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 815
    maxh said:

    Reed said:

    ping said:

    On the budget - indeed, on the tories ever since Truss - they’re out of ideas.

    The tories have lost the argument and don’t know what they stand for any more.

    There’s no way a confident Tory party would do that childcare package.

    The Stop the boats bullshit is a strategy - again - designed around Starmer and the threat that he poses. The Tory Yang to Starmers Yin.

    What is the point of the Conservative Party?

    To be fair to them, the current leaders, they carry everything of the last 13 years, borrowing, taxing, cuddling up to Russians, cuddling up to Chinese, incomes eroded, no growth. It’s like turning round a tanker with everyone just remembering the way it was originally pointed.
    The childcare issue is asinine. If property prices came down then women could afford to stay at home for the first 2 years of their childs live. But of course the tory core vote wont countenence anything like this.
    Why women?
    Sorry, a bit too flippant.

    There’s an obvious biological answer to my question but I think there is a really important opportunity for both parents to balance the burden of parenting in the early years.

    Also, welcome!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    OllyT said:

    Taz said:

    Pension lifetime allowance abolished.

    For the few not the many
    I quite like Hunt, a sensible guy compared to what has gone before but surely that's how the opposition parties will spin it. Tax cuts for those that have well over a million to put into their pension pots.
    Not a few of those in the public sector....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    @MaxPB

    European banks are *massively* better capitalized than they were 15 years ago. The total value of outstanding loans across the Eurozone is down about 40% (which is a massive contraction in aggregate money supply which has had very negative impacts on growth), while tier one equity has more than doubled.

    Now, there are still some European banks that have enormous issues (cough *Deutsche* cough), but the French, Irish, Dutch, and Spanish banks literally look nothing like they did back in 2008, while even the Italian and Germans look better.
  • So unConservative.


    Fiscal drag is huge in next 5 years

    Chx has kept freeze on income tax thresholds until 2028, despite record tax receipts in past year

    That will drag a whopping extra 15.5m people into basic income tax rate by 27/28, 9.8m extra into higher rate, & 1.6m extra into additional rate




    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1636017518052507652/photo/1
This discussion has been closed.