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Why the BBC Lineker dispute could get a lot worse – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited March 2023 in General
imageWhy the BBC Lineker dispute could get a lot worse – politicalbetting.com

The row that is going on at the BBC is very familiar territory for me because it was at Broadcasting House that I worked as a news editor in the early years of the Thatcher government. At the time I was also very active in the National Union of Journalists and was Father of the Chapel (head of union branch) at Broadcasting House.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    If there is an industrial dispute then so what ? We have plenty of other channels and radio stations now. Any dispute and, presumably, live BBC shows going off air, assuming it happpens, only harms the BBC and the case for the license fee. People will simply go elsewhere.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ClippP said:

    Taz said:

    If there is an industrial dispute then so what ? We have plenty of other channels and radio stations now. Any dispute and, presumably, live BBC shows going off air, assuming it happpens, only harms the BBC and the case for the license fee. People will simply go elsewhere.

    Is that not the plan of the leading Conservatives - and of the Murdoch press too? Rubbish or otherwise run down all our treasured institutions, and then sell the bits off to the highest bidder, be they Americans. Chinese, venture capital vulture banks or other favoured generous donors to Conservative Party funds?
    And looking to Mike’s graphic, there can be no arguing about it now, the Tories HAVE turned the state broadcaster blue.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    We don't recall any outcry when BBC Scotland's Business and Economy editor, Douglas Fraser, said *on air* that the SNP "appear to have a sort of North Korean tendency". Fraser very clearly breached impartiality guidelines. So why wasn't he censured?


    https://twitter.com/msm_monitor/status/1634516014015627264?s=46
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    While I am sure the SNP would love us to believe this, and vote accordingly, it just isn´t true. The tide for the SNP is going out, and the question is now not independence vs anything, it is what kind of devolution/home rule can work best for the people of Scotland rather than the SNP.

    Personally I still believe in a Federal Britain.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    .Its no excuse for the companies with large departments whise only job is to manage hundreds of millions of the company's cash, but you can see why a startup might not have appreciated that SVB wasn't safe as houses.

    Less than a week ago, Forbes named Silicon Valley Bank America's Best Bank for the fifth straight year, also calling the firm a "Financial All Star"
    https://mobile.twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1635074063289958403
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    ClippP said:

    Taz said:

    If there is an industrial dispute then so what ? We have plenty of other channels and radio stations now. Any dispute and, presumably, live BBC shows going off air, assuming it happpens, only harms the BBC and the case for the license fee. People will simply go elsewhere.

    Is that not the plan of the leading Conservatives - and of the Murdoch press too? Rubbish or otherwise run down all our treasured institutions, and then sell the bits off to the highest bidder, be they Americans. Chinese, venture capital vulture banks or other favoured generous donors to Conservative Party funds?
    It is the plan according to some people on social media. It’s all a bit conspiracy theory.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    Morning all. Happy bank run day!
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. Happy bank run day!

    It’s going to be an interesting day.

    https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1634885127179325440?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The DG and the Chairman must go then.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    edited March 2023
    Nikkei off 1.5% in morning trading, but Hang Seng actually up by around the same amount. USD and GBP falling slightly against EUR and JPY.

    All looks surprisingly okay so far, perhaps the Fed’s overnight announcement of deposit protection is enough to avoid further contagion past SVB, Signature, and Silvergate, and into more mainstream small banks.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    Senior SNP politicians have expressed doubts about the plans, including all three of the party’s leadership candidates. Humza Yousaf has suggested he would exclude small businesses in the scheme’s first year of operation. His main rival, Kate Forbes, has said the scheme would cause carnage for businesses. Ash Regan has said she would scrap the scheme in its current form.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,288
    edited March 2023
    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The DG and the Chairman must go then.
    There are two separate issues. One is very straightforward. The Chairman is plainly a political appointee, so the Corporation will always be in an awkward position when questions of impartiality arise.

    The other is whether the Corporation can sanction staff and contributors who cross certain lines when commenting publicly. I'm agnostic on that, but such lines must apply equally to all. That seems to be the problem here. One thinks of, say, Clarkson and Neil, and then has to ask 'How different to Lineker?'. The Beeb has to untwist its knickers on that one going forward for sure.

    How does it get itself out of the immediate mess? I'm not sure. If the DG has played a part in creating it, he should resign, but probably won't, and really that one is not big potatoes.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    edited March 2023
    Not much in the way of surprises at the Oscars. I think the favourites at Ladbrokes all won.

    I really enjoyed Everything Everywhere All At Once.

    https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1635077218903773188?t=mWMwhQoXg8g7bwtevqYI8Q&s=19

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,849
    ...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572
    Thread:

    It’s not on any front pages, but @Jeremy_Hunt has announced a much bigger than many expected set of policy changes for his ‘back to work’ focused Budget. Will have real impacts on people’s lives so take a break from football/immigration…


    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1634827332597825536?s=20
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    NZ win another test by 1 run !
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Morning, Nazis.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

  • Options
    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.
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    Pulpstar said:

    NZ win another test by 1 run !

    Two wickets surely?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Morning, Nazis.

    Would they be 1930's Nazis?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    AIUI, the status quo is that news and current affairs people are supposed to be politically balanced on social media, whereas other people seem to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, which leads to the likes of Lineker pushing the line.

    Standing for election is an interesting one. It’s okay if they are independent, but a difficult call if they have a party affiliation while still working there. There’s a few TV presenters in Parliament, Gloria De Piero and Esther McVey immediately spring to mind, but I think they resigned before they stood for election.

    Personally, I’d let them say what they like on their own personal social media channels, but that the BBC should promote only official programme accounts. They would also need to keep issuing statements that what people say in their spare time is not our responsibility, even when some random sports presenter goes Godwin on the government of the day. Even worse, they’d have to play down the story as a nothing burger, and not have it lead the news!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    edited March 2023

    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.

    When financiers tell you not to panic, it is probably time to panic!

    It ain't Bailey Savings and Loan any more with electronic withdrawals. A bank run can happen in seconds.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Cicero said:

    As someone who gets irritated by the playground drivel of "Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic" said as though it is the wisdom of the ages and not just trite drivel, I reluctantly find myself asking what the "Conservatives" are actually trying to conserve?

    Is there a single national institution that they have not in someway damaged, tarnished or undermined over the course of the past decade?

    The list is long: the BBC, Universities, the Union they profess to be dedicated to, infrastructure spending, 1000 years of English County local government, the constitutional prerogatives of the Monarchy, the NHS, even the power of the City of London and all of the soft power of the UK brand, all that is just the start for the Tory wrecking crew.

    The Bullshitters in a China shop have mangled so much, and it is not just English rivers that are full of shit. The political/media complex that has given us such "giants" as Johnson, Gove, "Leon", Peter Hitchens, or Farage is a cynical servant of a cynical and corrupt media world view exemplified by Trump and Murdoch.

    So we end up with the spectacle of a Conservative government- a Conservative government- cancelling David Attenborough and then watching the public purse being robbed of tens of millions by corrupt chancers and then packing the House of Lords with said chancers and KGB vatniks. A government that breaks even its own rules on every possible occasion.

    The damage these "#¤%s have caused will need a long time, and a radical agenda to fix. I don´t know if SKS has it, but I do know that the Tories must be driven out, bag and baggage.

    well its a sign of the times

    The LibDems are neither liberal or democratic
    The Conservatives conserve nothing
    Labour doesnt know what a worker is

    But the shape of UK politics is not unique, most euopean countries have the same problem, hence the rise of protest parties.

  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,053
    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The DG and the Chairman must go then.
    Why ?

    Mark Thompson was saying on TV yesterday the DG would have no involvement in this and should not go over this.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Damn it stop confusing me. I was just about to like @Sandpit post and then you counter with a post I also want to like.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201
    edited March 2023
    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.
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    The memory of the English as oppressors of the Welsh should be taken into account when statues and monuments are checked for glorifying colonialism and slavery, archaeologists say.

    A string of castles were built by Edward I to secure his military gains against Llywelyn ap Gryffydd, the last Welsh Prince of Wales, in 1277.

    The monuments have been suggested for inclusion in anti-racist guidance being prepared by the Welsh government about whether councils should pull down, move, destroy or retain statues showing contentious individuals or events.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/decolonise-the-english-oppressors-say-welsh-06b8rppqf
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
  • Options
    I guess those who call Gary Lineker a tax dodger will be calling King Charles III a tax dodger as well?

    Prince Andrew is said to be bewildered and in despair because the King is keeping his mother’s £370 million fortune to himself.

    An unnamed friend of the Duke of York was quoted in the Mail on Sunday saying: “What’s he meant to do? Go cap in hand to his elder brother to keep a roof over his head?”

    The Palace has declined to comment, but eyebrows have been raised at the likelihood that Andrew would be unaware of the convention that monarchs pass their estate to each other because the government allows them to escape inheritance tax. The arrangements began in 1862 and were last confirmed in a negotiation over royal finance with John Major, when he was prime minister, in 1993.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-in-despair-as-charles-keeps-queens-cash-6cktp69nm
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    dixiedean said:

    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.

    Just the UK arm.

    US arm likely going to PNC, GS or MS.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    edited March 2023
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The principle at stake is rather larger than either.

    And it's Lineker vs the current management (who have their own issues), not the BBC itself.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.

    I posted that ages ago.

    I've been in the office since 5am.

    Might be the quietest day ever, might take the afternoon off and go watch Cocaine Bear and Scream VI at the cinema.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    Not clear if more than an amphibious raid across the river, but interesting nonetheless.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940

    dixiedean said:

    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.

    I posted that ages ago.

    I've been in the office since 5am.

    Might be the quietest day ever, might take the afternoon off and go watch Cocaine Bear and Scream VI at the cinema.
    Was it finalised then?
    In my defence?
    Cost a £1.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.

    I posted that ages ago.

    I've been in the office since 5am.

    Might be the quietest day ever, might take the afternoon off and go watch Cocaine Bear and Scream VI at the cinema.
    Was it finalised then?
    In my defence?
    Cost a £1.
    I would have paid £2.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514

    I guess those who call Gary Lineker a tax dodger will be calling King Charles III a tax dodger as well?

    Prince Andrew is said to be bewildered and in despair because the King is keeping his mother’s £370 million fortune to himself.

    An unnamed friend of the Duke of York was quoted in the Mail on Sunday saying: “What’s he meant to do? Go cap in hand to his elder brother to keep a roof over his head?”

    The Palace has declined to comment, but eyebrows have been raised at the likelihood that Andrew would be unaware of the convention that monarchs pass their estate to each other because the government allows them to escape inheritance tax. The arrangements began in 1862 and were last confirmed in a negotiation over royal finance with John Major, when he was prime minister, in 1993.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-in-despair-as-charles-keeps-queens-cash-6cktp69nm

    Andrew needs to write a book complaining about playing Spare to his brother.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,219
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    I think it was Hermann Kahn who observed that one of the annoying features of war, is that enemies have an annoying habit of ruining your carefully designed plans. By doing the one thing that frustrates them.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    Yes, the Russians wouldn’t be planning for the defenders crossing the river at Nova Kakhovka or Kherson, but rather coming south from East Kiev. They’d hope the river would hold as a fortification of the rear lines.

    There’s something going on with the Kerch Bridge today as well, pictures of long queues on the bridge itself, and Russian guards stopping and searching everyone.
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    Taz said:

    ClippP said:

    Taz said:

    If there is an industrial dispute then so what ? We have plenty of other channels and radio stations now. Any dispute and, presumably, live BBC shows going off air, assuming it happpens, only harms the BBC and the case for the license fee. People will simply go elsewhere.

    Is that not the plan of the leading Conservatives - and of the Murdoch press too? Rubbish or otherwise run down all our treasured institutions, and then sell the bits off to the highest bidder, be they Americans. Chinese, venture capital vulture banks or other favoured generous donors to Conservative Party funds?
    It is the plan according to some people on social media. It’s all a bit conspiracy theory.
    Whilst it sounds like a conspiracy theory, you then look at the evidence and it feels real. Either they are purposefully smashing as many institutions as possible, or they are not trying to do so and are grossly incompetent.

    As for the conspiracy bit, we have evidence of plenty of other conspiracies they have been involved in. One involving the chairman of the BBC and a certain loan as one example...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    The distinction has always existed for those involved in BBC news. What's utterly muddled - and management is responsible for that - is what rules apply to everyone else, and whether they are fairly applied.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    rcs1000 said:
    It's troubling. Basically no bank is solvent if they have to pay out more than half their deposits in 24 hours. The whole borrow short and lend long model that allows banks to invest in start ups etc collapses. If you are lending long it takes time and effort to get your money back (and the knock on consequences for your customers can be severe).

    My immediate thoughts are:
    (1) is there a bigger role for the LOLR? If the Fed or BOE underwrites liquidity then the problem goes away but is the cost of this risk one that taxpayers should bear?
    (2) Do we need to completely break up retail banks and investment banks? Are investment risks just too great for a retail balance sheet to bear?
    (3) LOL at Forbes.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842

    dixiedean said:

    SVB sold to HSBC.
    No more details.

    I posted that ages ago.

    I've been in the office since 5am.

    Might be the quietest day ever, might take the afternoon off and go watch Cocaine Bear and Scream VI at the cinema.
    Perhaps wait until New York also opens quietly…
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,219

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    You mean the scheme that is so badly designed that every candidate for the SNP leadership is now saying it should be stopped, delayed or rethought?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64785574
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    .

    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.

    Barclays might have been better for the UK ?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,330
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The principle at stake is rather larger than either.

    And it's Lineker vs the current
    management (who have their own issues), not the BBC itself.
    Just Before I drive off on hols....There are two bites of the cherry. The first will end up as a smudge with opaque words, the second is the Taxman far more painful fir him and others than any freedom of speech row.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    Foxy said:

    I guess those who call Gary Lineker a tax dodger will be calling King Charles III a tax dodger as well?

    Prince Andrew is said to be bewildered and in despair because the King is keeping his mother’s £370 million fortune to himself.

    An unnamed friend of the Duke of York was quoted in the Mail on Sunday saying: “What’s he meant to do? Go cap in hand to his elder brother to keep a roof over his head?”

    The Palace has declined to comment, but eyebrows have been raised at the likelihood that Andrew would be unaware of the convention that monarchs pass their estate to each other because the government allows them to escape inheritance tax. The arrangements began in 1862 and were last confirmed in a negotiation over royal finance with John Major, when he was prime minister, in 1993.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-in-despair-as-charles-keeps-queens-cash-6cktp69nm

    Andrew needs to write a book complaining about playing Spare to his brother.
    Waaagh!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, by that rationale one would argue removing Constantine's statue from outside of York Minster. Or toppling every statue of William the Conqueror.

    Imposing modern day (especially controversial) moralistic views on the past is the act of a fucking idiot.

    Edward I made war on almost everyone (ironically, not the French, with whom he got along very well). That wasn't because he was a 21st century racist, it was because he was a king and it was the 13th century.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Morning, Nazis.

    Good morning Gary.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    They need to push Russian artillery out of range of Kherson, or its levelling will mean a Phyrric victory. A bridgehead near Nova Kakhovka might mean that artillery moving eastwards. But then Ukraine can launch a massive thrust over the Dnipro at Kherson.

    Russia is going to be wishing it still had those lost tens of thousands at Bakhmut.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    You mean the scheme that is so badly designed that every candidate for the SNP leadership is now saying it should be stopped, delayed or rethought?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64785574
    How dare you bring facts into this? That’s really unfair to Stuart.
  • Options

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, by that rationale one would argue removing Constantine's statue from outside of York Minster. Or toppling every statue of William the Conqueror.

    Imposing modern day (especially controversial) moralistic views on the past is the act of a fucking idiot.

    Edward I made war on almost everyone (ironically, not the French, with whom he got along very well). That wasn't because he was a 21st century racist, it was because he was a king and it was the 13th century.

    I advocate removing all statues and replacing them with mobile phone transmitters.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.

    Barclays might have been better for the UK ?
    Possibly.

    I suspect what happens to the SVB UK integration will be heavily monitored and some banks decided it wasn't worth the effort.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,219
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:
    It's troubling. Basically no bank is solvent if they have to pay out more than half their deposits in 24 hours. The whole borrow short and lend long model that allows banks to invest in start ups etc collapses. If you are lending long it takes time and effort to get your money back (and the knock on consequences for your customers can be severe).

    My immediate thoughts are:
    (1) is there a bigger role for the LOLR? If the Fed or BOE underwrites liquidity then the problem goes away but is the cost of this risk one that taxpayers should bear?
    (2) Do we need to completely break up retail banks and investment banks? Are investment risks just too great for a retail balance sheet to bear?
    (3) LOL at Forbes.
    3) Aged like milk indeed

    Bank runs will always kill banks. The question is how to create an orderly resolution.

    In this case, as far as we know, things worked reasonably well - the losses were limited/won’t happen for the depositors, no government money needed, the depositors are going to get timely access to their money.

    Oh, and the bank itself got wiped out - the actual risk takers bear the burden.

    Still got doubts about the US scheme to provide liquidity, though.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    Foxy said:

    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.

    When financiers tell you not to panic, it is probably time to panic!

    It ain't Bailey Savings and Loan any more with electronic withdrawals. A bank run can happen in seconds.
    The Fed response has dealt with that.
    If they hadn't made depositors good, they'd have created a strong incentive to be the first to desert any bank with a sniff of problems.
    That could have been immensely destabilising.
    Expect Trump's regulatory rollback to be rolled back.

    Probably safe now until the next Trump administration.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, by that rationale one would argue removing Constantine's statue from outside of York Minster. Or toppling every statue of William the Conqueror.

    Imposing modern day (especially controversial) moralistic views on the past is the act of a fucking idiot.

    Edward I made war on almost everyone (ironically, not the French, with whom he got along very well). That wasn't because he was a 21st century racist, it was because he was a king and it was the 13th century.

    Nothing new or particularly Woke about pulling down statues or monuments of oppressors. It has been a story as long as history itself.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    You mean the scheme that is so badly designed that every candidate for the SNP leadership is now saying it should be stopped, delayed or rethought?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64785574
    How dare you bring facts into this? That’s really unfair to Stuart.
    Just imagine if he was an actual Scotch expert.

    Still chuckling at his assertion that there wasn't a cat in hell's chance in Forbes standing to succeed Sturgeon.

    You cannot buy that quality of anti-tipster.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Uh oh

    HSBC, bankers to drug lords terrorists, and Iran, are looking like the most likely to buyout SVB UK.

    Panic over lads.

    When financiers tell you not to panic, it is probably time to panic!

    It ain't Bailey Savings and Loan any more with electronic withdrawals. A bank run can happen in seconds.
    The Fed response has dealt with that.
    If they hadn't made depositors good, they'd have created a strong incentive to be the first to desert any bank with a sniff of problems.
    That could have been immensely destabilising.
    Expect Trump's regulatory rollback to be rolled back.

    Probably safe now until the next Trump administration.
    Nothing is safe if Trump wins again.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,216
    edited March 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.



    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Someone whose job is going around the country telling people that their outdated junk might have some value is obviously a Tory, innit?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Not the first time it's happened when outside observers conclude a stalemate has been reached.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Robert you are still not getting it.

    For better or worse, Gary L is a face of the BBC. He is literally a BBC poster boy. He is absolutely identified with the BBC and no, I couldn't name an Antiques Roadshow presenter beyond the Fimeister.

    That said, so is Richard Sharp (absolutely identified with the BBC) and the whole thing is a mess.

    But according to the letter of the guidelines, and on the very reasonable assumption that Lineker is very associated with the BBC then it is right that he should be sanctioned.

    As for what happens next, I'm sure we are all rubber-necking with disbelief at events and await the "positive direction" final destination.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Not the first time it's happened when outside observers conclude a stalemate has been reached.
    In part it may be that the mud season ends earlier in Kherson than further east, so operations are more possible there.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,514
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Robert you are still not getting it.

    For better or worse, Gary L is a face of the BBC. He is literally a BBC poster boy. He is absolutely identified with the BBC and no, I couldn't name an Antiques Roadshow presenter beyond the Fimeister.

    That said, so is Richard Sharp (absolutely identified with the BBC) and the whole thing is a mess.

    But according to the letter of the guidelines, and on the very reasonable assumption that Lineker is very associated with the BBC then it is right that he should be sanctioned.

    As for what happens next, I'm sure we are all rubber-necking with disbelief at events and await the "positive direction" final destination.
    But the guidelines do allow BBC sport presenters to comment on Social Media on politics.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    Thanks Robert. These despatches from the front line are hugely useful.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
    Murdoch hasn’t owned Sky since 2018.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:
    It's troubling. Basically no bank is solvent if they have to pay out more than half their deposits in 24 hours. The whole borrow short and lend long model that allows banks to invest in start ups etc collapses. If you are lending long it takes time and effort to get your money back (and the knock on consequences for your customers can be severe).

    My immediate thoughts are:
    (1) is there a bigger role for the LOLR? If the Fed or BOE underwrites liquidity then the problem goes away but is the cost of this risk one that taxpayers should bear?
    (2) Do we need to completely break up retail banks and investment banks? Are investment risks just too great for a retail balance sheet to bear?
    (3) LOL at Forbes.
    No bank is solvent. Well certainly under fractional reserve banking. Hike RR + ER up to 20% and they are still vulnerable.

    That's why the Fed now (and in 1987) are so crucial to public confidence and a functioning modern economy, which the system relies upon. It is why the UK govt needs to do the same. And I have no doubt will.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:
    It's troubling. Basically no bank is solvent if they have to pay out more than half their deposits in 24 hours. The whole borrow short and lend long model that allows banks to invest in start ups etc collapses. If you are lending long it takes time and effort to get your money back (and the knock on consequences for your customers can be severe).

    My immediate thoughts are:
    (1) is there a bigger role for the LOLR? If the Fed or BOE underwrites liquidity then the problem goes away but is the cost of this risk one that taxpayers should bear?
    (2) Do we need to completely break up retail banks and investment banks? Are investment risks just too great for a retail balance sheet to bear?
    (3) LOL at Forbes.
    The solution will possibly some sort of enhanced deposit insurance.
    The Fed has given them a year to sort something out.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    edited March 2023
    TOPPING said:

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
    Well, if SKY were to match his salary and give him a politics show too...? He's probably better than Peston.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Dr. Foxy, they should pull down statues of Llewellyn then, for agreeing to terms, reneging on them, and then losing.

    In the past, there was a shitload of wars. Conquering = loot and more land to dole out. 'Oppressors' is a very modern take, especially given for a long time (centuries, I think) in England the law differed for Normans (ruling class) and the English.

    Better smash the Alexander the Great statues, he didn't let the cities of the Persian Empire cast a democratic vote to decide if they wanted to be conquered or not.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227

    TOPPING said:

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
    Murdoch hasn’t owned Sky since 2018.
    The brand is tainted, however. How many of Gary's followers are aware of that.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572
    rcs1000 said:
    Who needs Professor Peston when we have Twitter…..
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    They need to push Russian artillery out of range of Kherson, or its levelling will mean a Phyrric victory. A bridgehead near Nova Kakhovka might mean that artillery moving eastwards. But then Ukraine can launch a massive thrust over the Dnipro at Kherson.

    Russia is going to be wishing it still had those lost tens of thousands at Bakhmut.
    Here we go.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,349
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Robert you are still not getting it.

    For better or worse, Gary L is a face of the BBC. He is literally a BBC poster boy. He is absolutely identified with the BBC and no, I couldn't name an Antiques Roadshow presenter beyond the Fimeister.

    That said, so is Richard Sharp (absolutely identified with the BBC) and the whole thing is a mess.

    But according to the letter of the guidelines, and on the very reasonable assumption that Lineker is very associated with the BBC then it is right that he should be sanctioned.

    As for what happens next, I'm sure we are all rubber-necking with disbelief at events and await the "positive direction" final destination.
    He's the face of BBC football.
    Anyone getting wound up by anything he has to say about politics is puddled.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,088
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    Thanks Robert. These despatches from the front line are hugely useful.
    You are hilariously sore about any good news for Ukraine.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,216

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    They need to push Russian artillery out of range of Kherson, or its levelling will mean a Phyrric victory. A bridgehead near Nova Kakhovka might mean that artillery moving eastwards. But then Ukraine can launch a massive thrust over the Dnipro at Kherson.

    Russia is going to be wishing it still had those lost tens of thousands at Bakhmut.
    Putin's number one concern is neutralising any potential internal opposition, so it will have suited him to have those Wagner guys lose troops and face by throwing them into a hopeless battle.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Talks between Lineker and the BBC moving in the right direction say sources.

    What an utter shambles this is for the BBC. The tail wagging the dog. The BBC held to ransom, effectively, by a petulant freelancer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64930957

    Anyone who feels that insistence on the right to freedom of speech is 'petulant', simply because it's from someone who criticised the government, doesn't have much respect for the concept.
    Of course not, which is why I have repeatedly defended in discussion here linekers right to his views and free speech 🙄

    However this has gone beyond that now. It is becoming a stand off where the BBC is effectively disproving the old adage that no one is bigger than the corporation.
    The principle at stake is rather larger than either.

    And it's Lineker vs the current
    management (who have their own issues), not the BBC itself.
    Just Before I drive off on hols....There are two bites of the cherry. The first will end up as a smudge with opaque words, the second is the Taxman far more painful fir him and others than any freedom of speech row.
    Anyone evading tax needs to be dealt with, but I note that those losing the freedom of speech argument (in particular Leon) turn to accusing him of being a tax evader with absolutely no knowledge of the case whatsoever. On the face of it he is a freelancer. If the HMRC can prove otherwise then so be it, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with the freedom of speech argument and is just an excuse to smear him.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Robert you are still not getting it.

    For better or worse, Gary L is a face of the BBC. He is literally a BBC poster boy. He is absolutely identified with the BBC and no, I couldn't name an Antiques Roadshow presenter beyond the Fimeister.

    That said, so is Richard Sharp (absolutely identified with the BBC) and the whole thing is a mess.

    But according to the letter of the guidelines, and on the very reasonable assumption that Lineker is very associated with the BBC then it is right that he should be sanctioned.

    As for what happens next, I'm sure we are all rubber-necking with disbelief at events and await the "positive direction" final destination.
    But the guidelines do allow BBC sport presenters to comment on Social Media on politics.

    They absolutely (and specifically) do. But I would suggest that Gary is more than a sports presenter. As mentioned upthread I think it is a reasonably position to say that he is very closely associated with the BBC, indeed a face of the BBC and many people will take his utterings as the semi-official BBC view.

    The guidelines was of course bad drafting as in their minds I have no doubt was the bloke who gets the Bournemouth vs Brentford Saturday late kick-off to call.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572
    This morning, the Government and the Bank of England facilitated a private sale of Silicon Valley Bank UK to HSBC

    Deposits will be protected, with no taxpayer support

    I said yesterday that we would look after our tech sector, and we have worked urgently to deliver that promise


    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1635173913545302016?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    TOPPING said:

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
    Well, if SKY were to match his salary and give him a politics show too...? He's probably better than Peston.
    Probably?!
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    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL at Gary Lineker and a movie awards show leading the news, rather than financial Armageddon.

    My view hasn’t changed. The BBC either needs to say that presenters have freedom of speech on social media, or that they don’t and need to stay apolitical. They then need to enforce their chosen policy everywhere and all the time, with no exceptions.

    Are you really telling me there shouldn't be looser rules for a car show presenter or a sports commentator than a political correspondent?

    Should an Antiques Roadshow presenter be prevented from standing for their District Council because it would show their political leanings?
    Robert you are still not getting it.

    For better or worse, Gary L is a face of the BBC. He is literally a BBC poster boy. He is absolutely identified with the BBC and no, I couldn't name an Antiques Roadshow presenter beyond the Fimeister.

    That said, so is Richard Sharp (absolutely identified with the BBC) and the whole thing is a mess.

    But according to the letter of the guidelines, and on the very reasonable assumption that Lineker is very associated with the BBC then it is right that he should be sanctioned.

    As for what happens next, I'm sure we are all rubber-necking with disbelief at events and await the "positive direction" final destination.
    There are of course two basic issues preventing a successful Lineker BBC fatwa. One - had he been in favour of the policy no action would have been taken. Two - the people declaring the fatwa are Tory plants.

    Which all rather demolishes the whole impartiality standards thing. The best case scenario for Davie and Sharp and Johnson is that Lineker is quietly reinstated followed immediately by a HUUUUUGE breaking news story which completely kills the otherwise lethal repercussions of the Tories having to climb down and reinstate Lineker.

    Otherwise, Crispbag gets his job back and the impartiality story switches focus wholly onto the Tories. That a portion of their Mince MPs have openly called for a formal investigation is unfortunate...
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,219

    ydoethur said:

    Devolution isn’t safe. Drip by drip the British Establishment are going to dismantle it, Labour included.

    Only 8% of people living in Scotland support Direct Rule.

    The choice is no longer Independence v Devolution, it is Independence v Assimilation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

    You mean the scheme that is so badly designed that every candidate for the SNP leadership is now saying it should be stopped, delayed or rethought?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64785574
    How dare you bring facts into this? That’s really unfair to Stuart.
    Just imagine if he was an actual Scotch expert.

    Still chuckling at his assertion that there wasn't a cat in hell's chance in Forbes standing to succeed Sturgeon.

    You cannot buy that quality of anti-tipster.
    Anti-tipster?

    Shouldn’t @Roger sue for use of IP without consent?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    News coming though that confirms that the ZSU crossed the Dnipro in some size at Nova Kakhovka in the past 36 hours and that the Russian forces took some significant damage. Remains unclear if Ukrainian forces remain south of the river, but if they were to hold a beach head it would be a crisis for the Russian high command. As the grinding battle of Bakhmut continues, with staggering casualties for the Russians, the prospect of a significant Ukrainian counter offensive is clearly growing.

    Interesting. Nova Kakhovka is the source for the Crimean water canal. Good to see a fightback from the defenders.
    Russia has positioned its forces on the assumption that Ukraine would attack in a South Eastern direction towards Maruipol. If, instead, they are crossing the Dnieper much further West and cutting East towards Melitopol and Henichesk, then they could cut Crimea off much faster than anyone expects.
    Thanks Robert. These despatches from the front line are hugely useful.
    You are hilariously sore about any good news for Ukraine.
    Well first of all I have no idea whether what he wrote was good or bad news for anyone. It was an hilariously spuriously detailed tactical scenario the probability of which I suspect (without having any idea either) he has no clue.

    And yes I do have a thing about our PB tacticians you may have noticed.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,227

    TOPPING said:

    The issue for the BBC is how many people stop paying the "Lineker Fee" as a result of this fiasco.

    You can hardly expect SKY and others not to put the golden boot in.

    s'tricky though. Surely the sainted Gazza wouldn't take the Sky gold which will forever be Murdoch-tainted.
    Well, if SKY were to match his salary and give him a politics show too...? He's probably better than Peston.
    Interesting yes - do a crossover like Jermaine Jenas but end up with his Sunday morning politics show instead.

    At heart I think he wants to stay with the footie, however, and news this morning seems to be indicating that will be at the Beeb.
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