Is Johnson right about the polls just before he resigned last July – politicalbetting.com

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Is Johnson right about the polls just before he resigned last July – politicalbetting.com

Boris Johnson: “When I stepped down, we were only a handful of points behind the Labour Party… I’m just saying that”. YouGov poll conducted in the days before he quite as prime minister ?? pic.twitter.com/R2s4siZsaO

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Taz

First

Scott_xP

Boris Johnson says Brexit deal won’t take back control

It takes back control from him and his headbanger chums...

EPG

The Tories and LDs were doing a lot better. The ensuing maelstrom, followed by the rise of patrician centrist Sunak, has shredded a lot of Tory votes but also taken the wind very much out of LD sails - for that demographic Sunak appears to be one of us.

Fishing

I agree with Mike that it's hard to assert they were just a handful of points behind. Of course, a handful isn't a specific number, but I usually use it to mean 3-6 or so, not a dozen.

However, those poll deficits were just normal mid-term blues, whereas the Truss implosion has meant leads that are more like those in the terminal stage of an administration, like the mid-90s, or Labour in 2008. In both cases, there was some recovery by the election, but it wasn't enough.

So, as ever with politicians, it's a half-truth, rather than an outright lie.

Nigelb

Perhaps someone can explain to him how handfuls relate to percentages ?
(5 marks; show your workings)

TimS

EPG said:

The Tories and LDs were doing a lot better. The ensuing maelstrom, followed by the rise of patrician centrist Sunak, has shredded a lot of Tory votes but also taken the wind very much out of LD sails - for that demographic Sunak appears to be one of us.

I don't think that's the main reason for the change in LD voting preference. Their score was temporarily inflated by success in North Shropshire and Tiverton and Honiton. It always happens after byelections.

Ordinarily this May would be a good opportunity for a similar post-election bounce but the Lib Dems are defending a lot of seats won at their 2019 high water mark.

BartholomewRoberts

TimS said:

EPG said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

EPG said:

WillG said:

EPG said:

WillG said:

EPG said:

WillG said:

EPG said:

WillG said:

EPG said:

The "consent" to roads policy is Council elections. Just like the "consent" to EU law was national and European elections. Come on. If elections don't count as consent, democracy is impossible.

Remind me the last time a vote in European elections changed EU policy. If elections don't affect government policy, they are just a facade of democracy.

Since we're talking about trade deals, the European Parliament shut down a giant IP treaty, ACTA, supported by most EU governments and the Commission.

I didn't say the EP didn't have power. I said election didn't affect its policy preferences. Did the EP support the deal and then an election change it?

To be precise, you asked about changing EU / government policy.

I asked about elections changing EU policy. That hasn't happened.

European Parliament members were elected in 2009.

And did they have any difference in policy outlook compared to EP members that existed before that? i.e. what difference did that election make?

It put into office a few hundred members who voted to bin the treaty.

You're not understanding the question, how was that a change from what came before?

I was a delegate at NUS Conference in 2003. My university seemed to be one of the only ones in the country whose delegates were apolitical. As a bloc we had a policy, agreed in the Union in advance, that the purpose of the Union was to serve students and not other policies. There were no Labour, Tory, or any other candidates elected, just candidates to serve student interests, on issues that affect students.

That do you think the first thing the NUS debated that year? Tuition Fees? Top-up fees? Student Finances? Student HMOs? No, it was the Iraq War, like the NUS had any say on the Iraq War. 🤦‍♂️

As a bloc I and my colleagues from our Uni all stood up and voted against a motion saying the NUS should oppose the Iraq War, we seemed to be the only ones in the room to do so, to which we got some filthy looks from many of the other delegates.

In most Student Unions across the country the elections are hijacked by left-wing people who want to further their left-wing national politics, rather than serving student interests on areas affecting students.

The same happens in the EP. European issues decided by the European Parliament are rarely debated at European Elections, instead they're a continuance of national politics by other means so obsessives and freaks like Farage and others get themselves elected to the European Parliament rather than scrutinising and debating issues the EP actually decides.

I think your grievance about being in the minority on a NUS vote is not necessarily comparable to working out the competencies of the European Parliament. But the example shows that it's hard to say what an election is "about". I'm sure many students thought their vote was indeed about having a student movement that expressed political views, especially views that were stereotypically associated with students in the mid-2000s. I also doubt that you are basing your characterisation of the Parliament's workload on such personal experience; you can check its website to see what its members do, and it's free!

I think it's unarguable that the UK sent many MEPs to the parliament who were more interested in furthering national politics than voting on European rules. There are a couple of other smaller countries where something similar happens, usually with the far left and far right. But, looking over the debates and motions in the EP over the last few years and the people engaged with them, the majority of these were properly focused on areas of EU and EP competence. Where EU membership is not in itself a culture war battleground (i.e. most countries other than the UK) it feels much more like a parliament doing what it was set up to do. Often putting pressure on the commission, for example on areas like tax reform.

Precisely!

Some of it can be cultural, if the nation has the right culture and viewpoint then debating areas of competencies can happen at elections, while if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

That's part of why the European Union suits many European countries, even if not this nation.

Stuartinromford

Scott_xP said:

Boris Johnson says Brexit deal won’t take back control

It takes back control from him and his headbanger chums...

That was the point of Brexit, though, wasn't it? For some people, anyway.

And on topic: Self-servingly wrong question by the Bozza. The real question is what the polls would have looked like now had he stayed on? There would still have been the cost of living problems and a continued drip drip of terrible behaviour by the government. He'd have avoided the Truss plunge, but that's about it.

Mexicanpete

Scott_xP said:

Boris Johnson says Brexit deal won’t take back control

It takes back control from him and his headbanger chums...

He's obviously seen an angle to damage Sunak. I am not sure I see it, but lots of nest feathering going on here.

Stuartinromford

Nigelb said:

Perhaps someone can explain to him how handfuls relate to percentages ?
(5 marks; show your workings)

It was the handfuls that Chris Pincher pinched that were the final straw.

BartholomewRoberts

Fishing said:

I agree with Mike that it's hard to assert they were just a handful of points behind. Of course, a handful isn't a specific number, but I usually use it to mean 3-6 or so, not a dozen.

However, those poll deficits were just normal mid-term blues, whereas the Truss implosion has meant leads that are more like those in the terminal stage of an administration, like the mid-90s, or Labour in 2008. In both cases, there was some recovery by the election, but it wasn't enough.

So, as ever with politicians, it's a half-truth, rather than an outright lie.

If you count via swing then upto a ten point deficit requires a handful (5) of swing.

Most polls certainly where in that range, and as you say in normal mid-term blues.

However what it overlooks is that Boris had to go for reasons unrelated to the polls. Even if the Tories were in a poll lead, I'd have still been calling for Boris to go.

MattW

FPT:

El_Capitano said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

El_Capitano said:

In local news, there's an interesting double by-election in Littlemore & Rose Hill today, one of the more working class parts of Oxford. Both city and county seats are up for election. Both were held by Labour, though by two different councillors (the county one was beyond hopeless and had, I believe, the worst attendance record on the whole council; I don't know the city one at all; it seems curious that they resigned at the same time).

Littlemore has one of Oxford's much-discussed Low Traffic Neighbourhood schemes. There's an Independent standing on a platform of opposition to it, and the Tories have come out against it too (even though they pushed LTNs, and implemented several, while in control of the county council).

The LibDems and Greens aren't making much of an effort - Littlemore isn't fertile territory for either of them. As usual for East Oxford there are TUSC candidates too.

I think it'll come down to Labour vs Independent, and if pushed I'd say Labour will hold it, but it's far from a done deal.

An interesting set of by-elections indeed.

The (less advanced) Cambridge equivalent Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme is already developing into a battleground between familiar stereotypes.

The bicycling lefty dons versus the hard-working poor. The intellectual elite versus the struggling, down-to-earth workers.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-updates-anti-congestion-charge-26330201

For example, my brother-in-law (staunch Labour) literally cannot contain his rage about it. I have never seen him angrier.

Prediction -- this is the new Brexit.

This is Farage's next Big Issue. It is tailor-made to pit one section of Labour voters against another section.

I'm not convinced it's the new Brexit, as it's an issue imo with strictly limited mileage. I think that perhaps the "working class", like "disabled people", are being used as human shields by various quite-Right political types.

We are seeing increasing evidence that what Khan is doing in London is working.

What are the protestors proposing as their tool to meet legally binding emissions targets, which have been delegated down by the Government, should the LEZ and so on be cancelled?

A workplace parking levy might make more sense for Cambridge, and it's notable that quite a lot of places are now cancelling low-emission zones, as they are meeting emissions targets.

Among those who haven't done very much are the mainly Tory Outer London Boroughs who are now moaning their heads off, and LD Boroughs who want a delay. Examples of London Boroughs:


https://mobile.twitter.com/RantyHighwayman/status/1618146962405982209

I support what Cambridge are trying to do. It is a medieval city with way, way too much traffic.

My point was my brother-in-law was ready to kick my head in over this.

And he votes Labour and works as ancillary staff in Addenbrooke's Hospital.

I think you are underestimating how angry a sizeable fraction of people are about this.

As for me, I broadly agree with it.

I am just worried about the punishment beating I am going to get at the next family reunion. He's a big man.

I can't help with the family dispute.

But as staff at Addenbrooke's perhaps he could explain how he would deal with air pollution, which is a legal requirement? Or keep stumm.

AFAICS the data from London is demonstrating that a - LTNs do not cause extra traffic or emissions on boundary or internal streets, and b - that emissions are being reduced significantly.

I just can't see a problem with preventing rat-runners from driving through residential areas - it's only a modest version of the standards which apply to all new developments, and has been in extensive use for at least half a century - albeit in places in a misapplied, 'we're not-learning-from-other-places', mealy-mouthed half-hearted incompetent British local council sort of way.

You seem to think I am disputing the LTN policy. I agree with it. As regards the data from London, it might be nice to see a proper source rather than a tweet.

I am just trying to understand the electoral consequences if the policy pisses off a section of the Labour vote in Littlemore, Oxford -- which is where @El_Capitano pointed to a tricky Labour defence tonight.

FWIW I think Cambridge is doing a much better job of it than Oxford. (This is to be expected, as I'm sure @TheScreamingEagles will agree.)

Cambridge is doing a London-style congestion charge, which is a blunt instrument but equal in its impact and easy to understand. Along with this it's been putting in proper cycle infrastructure.

Oxford is doing LTN point closures (which are fine albeit controversial) but also a baffling series of traffic filters, which will have uncertain results, have a complex and uneven set of rules, and may actually worsen safety for pedestrians and cyclists in some places. It has put in basically zero safe cycling infrastructure, but rather just painted a lot of bicycle symbols on the existing roads.

As @oxfordsimon has posted, much of this is at the behest of one rather eccentric, elderly officer in the County Council who has pushed through his ideas and not really taken on board any feedback.

If Labour lose the by-election then I think the traffic filters are toast. To be honest I'm not convinced they will happen anyway: Network Rail announced the timetable for their planned works on the Botley Road rail bridge this morning, which will mean the traffic filters can't start before October 2024. All seats in the county are up for election in May 2025, so I can't see the rainbow coalition either bringing them in a few months before an election, or standing for re-election with them as a flagship policy.

If only Oxford would listen to Cambridge a bit more...

I was not trying to suggest that - apols if that came across.

I think that traffic filters, with their techno-feel, are perhaps a bit cakeist / complex. Simply filter traffic by mode, block through traffic, and have done with it.

I think that history (see various urbanist Youtube Channels such as Not Just Bikes) shows that a decent modal shift away from private vehicles (say 10-20%) reduces congestion, since other forms of urban transport are more efficient ways to move people around.

For the UK I think places where we get a third network of transport facilities, in addition to motor vehicle roads and footways, will be a revelation as we get to grips with the advantages for wheelchairs, mobility scooters, e-scooters, and other forms of micro-mobility transport which are not currently even in the system.

One of our problems is that police preached for decades that blocking paths to walkers and wheelers was important for security, and now we have local councillors irrevocably dedicated to now-illegal obstructions that are of no benefit. Greenwich put a new illegal barrier on the Thames Path in January, for example.

That tweet is a thread from a Highways professional, and was not done elsewhere.

For data on LTNs in London, here is one recent study on traffic from the Uni of Westminster:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64319027

And one on traffic and emissions from Imperial College:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/241731/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-reduce-pollution-surrounding-streets/

OnlyLivingBoy

Wait, Boris Johnson is saying something slightly dishonest?

EPG

TimS said:

EPG said:

The Tories and LDs were doing a lot better. The ensuing maelstrom, followed by the rise of patrician centrist Sunak, has shredded a lot of Tory votes but also taken the wind very much out of LD sails - for that demographic Sunak appears to be one of us.

I don't think that's the main reason for the change in LD voting preference. Their score was temporarily inflated by success in North Shropshire and Tiverton and Honiton. It always happens after byelections.

Ordinarily this May would be a good opportunity for a similar post-election bounce but the Lib Dems are defending a lot of seats won at their 2019 high water mark.

Of course if they hadn't been popular, they wouldn't have won by-elections in challenging Brexity areas in the first place.

eek

Fishing said:

I agree with Mike that it's hard to assert they were just a handful of points behind. Of course, a handful isn't a specific number, but I usually use it to mean 3-6 or so, not a dozen.

However, those poll deficits were just normal mid-term blues, whereas the Truss implosion has meant leads that are more like those in the terminal stage of an administration, like the mid-90s, or Labour in 2008. In both cases, there was some recovery by the election, but it wasn't enough.

So, as ever with politicians, it's a half-truth, rather than an outright lie.

It's hard for someone who is honest to assert something that isn't true.

For Bozo the clown who knows that he is targeting people who don't care about details / experts it just the 3pm on Thursday lie.

Selebian

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Wait, Boris Johnson is saying something slightly dishonest?

I know! He must have become more honest since being booted out.

Luckyguy1983

Stuartinromford said:

Scott_xP said:

Boris Johnson says Brexit deal won’t take back control

It takes back control from him and his headbanger chums...

That was the point of Brexit, though, wasn't it? For some people, anyway.

And on topic: Self-servingly wrong question by the Bozza. The real question is what the polls would have looked like now had he stayed on? There would still have been the cost of living problems and a continued drip drip of terrible behaviour by the government. He'd have avoided the Truss plunge, but that's about it.

If he'd avoided the Truss plunge 'but that's about it', he'd be doing better than Sunak.

EPG

Despite the national Tory Golgotha, I don't quite think that the LDs would have won North Shropshire by 6,000 votes if the by-election were last week. Am I alone in getting this sense?

MattW

FPT:

BartholomewRoberts said:

MattW said:

LTNs were consulted extensively (check your local council website) - what we are getting now is blowback from groups who did not bother to take part in consultations, and are now upset.

LOL you're confirming what I said, but from the other vantage point.

A small number of organised obsessives with an agenda can push their agenda via "consultations" that the overwhelming majority of people are not aware are even happening.

Then when others find out about it, they get annoyed, and you call that "blowback by people who didn't bother".

I'm no particular fan of existing consultative mechanisms - do you have a suggestion for an alternative?

We've had a couple of schemes consulted on recently, and you get a map scheme but without sufficient technical information such as measured and expected traffic flows, and 2 weeks to respond, when the thing does not meet National Guidelines for safety or quality. Not easy.

In the case of active travel schemes, we even currently have a profession that widely do not understand the users of the thing they are designing due to none having been designed for a generation.

Razedabode

Sick to death of Johnson. Perhaps he did need to face the electorate to be “defeated”

eek

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

kle4

As stuart notes the issue is what if he had stayed. That's obviously subjective. Itd have avoided the Truss implosion, but on the other hand he was fatally wounded by his own incompetence causing repeated scandals.

So whilst it cannot be proven, his implication they'd be doing as well has reason to be questioned.

kle4

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

TheScreamingEagles

Huge twist.

Newcastle United exposed as liars and should get kicked out of the Premier League

Premier League clubs have reacted with anger to the description in a US court document of the Newcastle chairman, Yasir al-Rumayyan, as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.

The development has prompted calls from Amnesty for the league to re-examine the assurances given by Newcastle’s owners that the Saudi state would not have control of the club.

The Guardian understands that the clubs dismayed by the situation are in no mood to let the matter lie. The document filed this week has raised fresh questions about the level of separation between the Saudi state and the Public Investment Fund (PIF), whose governor is Rumayyan.

A brief filed in a court case involving the PGA Tour and LIV Golf describes the PIF as “a sovereign instrumentality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia” and Rumayyan as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/02/premier-league-newcastle-owners-us-court-case-amnesty

SeaShantyIrish2

Does Boris Johnson really have a hand with 11 fingers?

ohnotnow

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63914518

"Deputy First Minister John Swinney has announced he is leaving the Scottish government after nearly 16 years.

He will stand down once a new first minister is appointed later this month."

williamglenn

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

TheScreamingEagles

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

Stuartinromford

Luckyguy1983 said:

Stuartinromford said:

Scott_xP said:

Boris Johnson says Brexit deal won’t take back control

It takes back control from him and his headbanger chums...

That was the point of Brexit, though, wasn't it? For some people, anyway.

And on topic: Self-servingly wrong question by the Bozza. The real question is what the polls would have looked like now had he stayed on? There would still have been the cost of living problems and a continued drip drip of terrible behaviour by the government. He'd have avoided the Truss plunge, but that's about it.

If he'd avoided the Truss plunge 'but that's about it', he'd be doing better than Sunak.

Not by much though. Here's the wikigraph, with an extra line added by the not-at-all-rigourous "draw a straight line that looks about right" approach from summer 2021 to now.



You can see Paterson and Partygate and Ukraine, along with the Truss Plunge and Small Sunak Bounceback. But between those, there is a steady decay of about 1 percent per month, every month. The relentlessness of that is the critical thing, because it has kept adding up.

My guess is that it's related to the cost of living squeeze; inflation started to exceed wage rises in the second half of 2021, albeit gently at first. But unless BoJo had an answer to it (and the track record is that he didn't) then he might well have ended up about where Sunak is now.

Driver

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

Yeah, but that also applies to the DPP.

TheScreamingEagles

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

Calm down.

Many senior civil servants have served party leaders and vice versa.

Benpointer

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Scott_xP

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

TheScreamingEagles

Gus O’Donnell was Press Secretary to John Major as Chancellor/PM.

Chris Meyer Press Secretary to Major then went on to become Ambassador to Germany then America.

Nigelb

Feds arrest Michigan man who plotted to kill Jewish elected officials in the state
https://www.jta.org/2023/03/01/united-states/feds-arrest-michigan-man-who-plotted-to-kill-jewish-elected-officials-in-the-state
...Jack Eugene Carpenter III, a resident of Tipton, Michigan, had tweeted on Feb. 17 that he was “heading back to Michigan now threatening to carry out the punishment of death to anyone that is jewish in the Michigan govt if they don’t leave, or confess,” according to the FBI’s affidavit. There are several prominent Jewish elected officials in the state, including Attorney General Dana Nessel, U.S. Rep. Elissa Slotkin and a handful of state senators and representatives.

In a tweet Thursday, Nessel said the FBI had confirmed she was one of Carpenter’s targets, and added, “It is my sincere hope that the federal authorities take this offense just as seriously as my Hate Crimes & Domestic Terrorism Unit takes plots to murder elected officials.”..,/i>

Selebian

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

Has gone back to his constituency?

kinabalu

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

kle4

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

That's a bit strong, people can be very professional whatever their political views.

After all 'almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out'.

But her name became big in politics for a time and she was senior. A longer period before a career in politics might have been sensible.

Foxy

MattW said:

FPT:

El_Capitano said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

El_Capitano said:

In local news, there's an interesting double by-election in Littlemore & Rose Hill today, one of the more working class parts of Oxford. Both city and county seats are up for election. Both were held by Labour, though by two different councillors (the county one was beyond hopeless and had, I believe, the worst attendance record on the whole council; I don't know the city one at all; it seems curious that they resigned at the same time).

Littlemore has one of Oxford's much-discussed Low Traffic Neighbourhood schemes. There's an Independent standing on a platform of opposition to it, and the Tories have come out against it too (even though they pushed LTNs, and implemented several, while in control of the county council).

The LibDems and Greens aren't making much of an effort - Littlemore isn't fertile territory for either of them. As usual for East Oxford there are TUSC candidates too.

I think it'll come down to Labour vs Independent, and if pushed I'd say Labour will hold it, but it's far from a done deal.

An interesting set of by-elections indeed.

The (less advanced) Cambridge equivalent Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme is already developing into a battleground between familiar stereotypes.

The bicycling lefty dons versus the hard-working poor. The intellectual elite versus the struggling, down-to-earth workers.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-updates-anti-congestion-charge-26330201

For example, my brother-in-law (staunch Labour) literally cannot contain his rage about it. I have never seen him angrier.

Prediction -- this is the new Brexit.

This is Farage's next Big Issue. It is tailor-made to pit one section of Labour voters against another section.

I'm not convinced it's the new Brexit, as it's an issue imo with strictly limited mileage. I think that perhaps the "working class", like "disabled people", are being used as human shields by various quite-Right political types.

We are seeing increasing evidence that what Khan is doing in London is working.

What are the protestors proposing as their tool to meet legally binding emissions targets, which have been delegated down by the Government, should the LEZ and so on be cancelled?

A workplace parking levy might make more sense for Cambridge, and it's notable that quite a lot of places are now cancelling low-emission zones, as they are meeting emissions targets.

Among those who haven't done very much are the mainly Tory Outer London Boroughs who are now moaning their heads off, and LD Boroughs who want a delay. Examples of London Boroughs:


https://mobile.twitter.com/RantyHighwayman/status/1618146962405982209

I support what Cambridge are trying to do. It is a medieval city with way, way too much traffic.

My point was my brother-in-law was ready to kick my head in over this.

And he votes Labour and works as ancillary staff in Addenbrooke's Hospital.

I think you are underestimating how angry a sizeable fraction of people are about this.

As for me, I broadly agree with it.

I am just worried about the punishment beating I am going to get at the next family reunion. He's a big man.

I can't help with the family dispute.

But as staff at Addenbrooke's perhaps he could explain how he would deal with air pollution, which is a legal requirement? Or keep stumm.

AFAICS the data from London is demonstrating that a - LTNs do not cause extra traffic or emissions on boundary or internal streets, and b - that emissions are being reduced significantly.

I just can't see a problem with preventing rat-runners from driving through residential areas - it's only a modest version of the standards which apply to all new developments, and has been in extensive use for at least half a century - albeit in places in a misapplied, 'we're not-learning-from-other-places', mealy-mouthed half-hearted incompetent British local council sort of way.

You seem to think I am disputing the LTN policy. I agree with it. As regards the data from London, it might be nice to see a proper source rather than a tweet.

I am just trying to understand the electoral consequences if the policy pisses off a section of the Labour vote in Littlemore, Oxford -- which is where @El_Capitano pointed to a tricky Labour defence tonight.

FWIW I think Cambridge is doing a much better job of it than Oxford. (This is to be expected, as I'm sure @TheScreamingEagles will agree.)

Cambridge is doing a London-style congestion charge, which is a blunt instrument but equal in its impact and easy to understand. Along with this it's been putting in proper cycle infrastructure.

Oxford is doing LTN point closures (which are fine albeit controversial) but also a baffling series of traffic filters, which will have uncertain results, have a complex and uneven set of rules, and may actually worsen safety for pedestrians and cyclists in some places. It has put in basically zero safe cycling infrastructure, but rather just painted a lot of bicycle symbols on the existing roads.

As @oxfordsimon has posted, much of this is at the behest of one rather eccentric, elderly officer in the County Council who has pushed through his ideas and not really taken on board any feedback.

If Labour lose the by-election then I think the traffic filters are toast. To be honest I'm not convinced they will happen anyway: Network Rail announced the timetable for their planned works on the Botley Road rail bridge this morning, which will mean the traffic filters can't start before October 2024. All seats in the county are up for election in May 2025, so I can't see the rainbow coalition either bringing them in a few months before an election, or standing for re-election with them as a flagship policy.

If only Oxford would listen to Cambridge a bit more...

I was not trying to suggest that - apols if that came across.

I think that traffic filters, with their techno-feel, are perhaps a bit cakeist / complex. Simply filter traffic by mode, block through traffic, and have done with it.

I think that history (see various urbanist Youtube Channels such as Not Just Bikes) shows that a decent modal shift away from private vehicles (say 10-20%) reduces congestion, since other forms of urban transport are more efficient ways to move people around.

For the UK I think places where we get a third network of transport facilities, in addition to motor vehicle roads and footways, will be a revelation as we get to grips with the advantages for wheelchairs, mobility scooters, e-scooters, and other forms of micro-mobility transport which are not currently even in the system.

One of our problems is that police preached for decades that blocking paths to walkers and wheelers was important for security, and now we have local councillors irrevocably dedicated to now-illegal obstructions that are of no benefit. Greenwich put a new illegal barrier on the Thames Path in January, for example.

That tweet is a thread from a Highways professional, and was not done elsewhere.

For data on LTNs in London, here is one recent study on traffic from the Uni of Westminster:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64319027

And one on traffic and emissions from Imperial College:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/241731/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-reduce-pollution-surrounding-streets/

I wish cities would coordinate a little with their hinterlands. Leicester (Labour controlled) is busy trying to reduce congestion, while the Leics County Council (Con controlled) is busy hacking away at bus services, so the only way to work, study or shop in the city is by car.

Selebian

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

williamglenn

kinabalu said:

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

He'd better get some talking done, seriously.

ydoethur

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

He's not making the white call.

Foxy

ydoethur said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

He's not making the white call.

I think there are 50 shades of opinion on whether Gray is a good appointment.

Northern_Al

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Apparently, they got to know one another over a beer and curry during lockdown.

Gray should hold an Inquiry over her appointment.

ydoethur

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

He's not making the white call.

I think there are 50 shades of opinion on whether Gray is a good appointment.

Hey, she told off Case and Acland-Hood over those boozy lockdown parties. She's OK with me.

MattW

Foxy said:

MattW said:

FPT:

El_Capitano said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

MattW said:

YBarddCwsc said:

El_Capitano said:

In local news, there's an interesting double by-election in Littlemore & Rose Hill today, one of the more working class parts of Oxford. Both city and county seats are up for election. Both were held by Labour, though by two different councillors (the county one was beyond hopeless and had, I believe, the worst attendance record on the whole council; I don't know the city one at all; it seems curious that they resigned at the same time).

Littlemore has one of Oxford's much-discussed Low Traffic Neighbourhood schemes. There's an Independent standing on a platform of opposition to it, and the Tories have come out against it too (even though they pushed LTNs, and implemented several, while in control of the county council).

The LibDems and Greens aren't making much of an effort - Littlemore isn't fertile territory for either of them. As usual for East Oxford there are TUSC candidates too.

I think it'll come down to Labour vs Independent, and if pushed I'd say Labour will hold it, but it's far from a done deal.

An interesting set of by-elections indeed.

The (less advanced) Cambridge equivalent Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme is already developing into a battleground between familiar stereotypes.

The bicycling lefty dons versus the hard-working poor. The intellectual elite versus the struggling, down-to-earth workers.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-updates-anti-congestion-charge-26330201

For example, my brother-in-law (staunch Labour) literally cannot contain his rage about it. I have never seen him angrier.

Prediction -- this is the new Brexit.

This is Farage's next Big Issue. It is tailor-made to pit one section of Labour voters against another section.

I'm not convinced it's the new Brexit, as it's an issue imo with strictly limited mileage. I think that perhaps the "working class", like "disabled people", are being used as human shields by various quite-Right political types.

We are seeing increasing evidence that what Khan is doing in London is working.

What are the protestors proposing as their tool to meet legally binding emissions targets, which have been delegated down by the Government, should the LEZ and so on be cancelled?

A workplace parking levy might make more sense for Cambridge, and it's notable that quite a lot of places are now cancelling low-emission zones, as they are meeting emissions targets.

Among those who haven't done very much are the mainly Tory Outer London Boroughs who are now moaning their heads off, and LD Boroughs who want a delay. Examples of London Boroughs:


https://mobile.twitter.com/RantyHighwayman/status/1618146962405982209

I support what Cambridge are trying to do. It is a medieval city with way, way too much traffic.

My point was my brother-in-law was ready to kick my head in over this.

And he votes Labour and works as ancillary staff in Addenbrooke's Hospital.

I think you are underestimating how angry a sizeable fraction of people are about this.

As for me, I broadly agree with it.

I am just worried about the punishment beating I am going to get at the next family reunion. He's a big man.

I can't help with the family dispute.

But as staff at Addenbrooke's perhaps he could explain how he would deal with air pollution, which is a legal requirement? Or keep stumm.

AFAICS the data from London is demonstrating that a - LTNs do not cause extra traffic or emissions on boundary or internal streets, and b - that emissions are being reduced significantly.

I just can't see a problem with preventing rat-runners from driving through residential areas - it's only a modest version of the standards which apply to all new developments, and has been in extensive use for at least half a century - albeit in places in a misapplied, 'we're not-learning-from-other-places', mealy-mouthed half-hearted incompetent British local council sort of way.

You seem to think I am disputing the LTN policy. I agree with it. As regards the data from London, it might be nice to see a proper source rather than a tweet.

I am just trying to understand the electoral consequences if the policy pisses off a section of the Labour vote in Littlemore, Oxford -- which is where @El_Capitano pointed to a tricky Labour defence tonight.

FWIW I think Cambridge is doing a much better job of it than Oxford. (This is to be expected, as I'm sure @TheScreamingEagles will agree.)

Cambridge is doing a London-style congestion charge, which is a blunt instrument but equal in its impact and easy to understand. Along with this it's been putting in proper cycle infrastructure.

Oxford is doing LTN point closures (which are fine albeit controversial) but also a baffling series of traffic filters, which will have uncertain results, have a complex and uneven set of rules, and may actually worsen safety for pedestrians and cyclists in some places. It has put in basically zero safe cycling infrastructure, but rather just painted a lot of bicycle symbols on the existing roads.

As @oxfordsimon has posted, much of this is at the behest of one rather eccentric, elderly officer in the County Council who has pushed through his ideas and not really taken on board any feedback.

If Labour lose the by-election then I think the traffic filters are toast. To be honest I'm not convinced they will happen anyway: Network Rail announced the timetable for their planned works on the Botley Road rail bridge this morning, which will mean the traffic filters can't start before October 2024. All seats in the county are up for election in May 2025, so I can't see the rainbow coalition either bringing them in a few months before an election, or standing for re-election with them as a flagship policy.

If only Oxford would listen to Cambridge a bit more...

I was not trying to suggest that - apols if that came across.

I think that traffic filters, with their techno-feel, are perhaps a bit cakeist / complex. Simply filter traffic by mode, block through traffic, and have done with it.

I think that history (see various urbanist Youtube Channels such as Not Just Bikes) shows that a decent modal shift away from private vehicles (say 10-20%) reduces congestion, since other forms of urban transport are more efficient ways to move people around.

For the UK I think places where we get a third network of transport facilities, in addition to motor vehicle roads and footways, will be a revelation as we get to grips with the advantages for wheelchairs, mobility scooters, e-scooters, and other forms of micro-mobility transport which are not currently even in the system.

One of our problems is that police preached for decades that blocking paths to walkers and wheelers was important for security, and now we have local councillors irrevocably dedicated to now-illegal obstructions that are of no benefit. Greenwich put a new illegal barrier on the Thames Path in January, for example.

That tweet is a thread from a Highways professional, and was not done elsewhere.

For data on LTNs in London, here is one recent study on traffic from the Uni of Westminster:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64319027

And one on traffic and emissions from Imperial College:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/241731/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-reduce-pollution-surrounding-streets/

I wish cities would coordinate a little with their hinterlands. Leicester (Labour controlled) is busy trying to reduce congestion, while the Leics County Council (Con controlled) is busy hacking away at bus services, so the only way to work, study or shop in the city is by car.

Amen to that.

Same in Oxford and Cambridge aiui, and to an extent in Notts / Nottingham - though here transport coordination seems better with eg the Robin Hood Line.

MoonRabbit

TheScreamingEagles said:

Huge twist.

Newcastle United exposed as liars and should get kicked out of the Premier League

Premier League clubs have reacted with anger to the description in a US court document of the Newcastle chairman, Yasir al-Rumayyan, as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.

The development has prompted calls from Amnesty for the league to re-examine the assurances given by Newcastle’s owners that the Saudi state would not have control of the club.

The Guardian understands that the clubs dismayed by the situation are in no mood to let the matter lie. The document filed this week has raised fresh questions about the level of separation between the Saudi state and the Public Investment Fund (PIF), whose governor is Rumayyan.

A brief filed in a court case involving the PGA Tour and LIV Golf describes the PIF as “a sovereign instrumentality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia” and Rumayyan as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/02/premier-league-newcastle-owners-us-court-case-amnesty

Twist. Or original fudge both parties (money in suitcase FA shook hands over the top of) shouldn’t have got away with now falling apart?

Might not hurt Newcastle, that’s been signed off so much FA face hurt in row back, but could hurt Manchester United more as their similar fudge has yet to be signed off so no face to lose by merely stamping a document “rejected”.

Still all ifs and buts though.

williamglenn

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

He's not making the white call.

I think there are 50 shades of opinion on whether Gray is a good appointment.

Can Starmer be trusted on the Treaty of Monochrome?

bigjohnowls

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

He's not making the white call.

I think there are 50 shades of opinion on whether Gray is a good appointment.

Angela Smith has been readmitted just in time to talk about Sue "Funny Tinges" appointment as Chief of Staff

bigjohnowls

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

Not a single person of Colour in the shadow Cabinet? but Angela Funny Tinge is back in Labour

TheScreamingEagles

bigjohnowls said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

Not a single person of Colour in the shadow Cabinet? but Angela Funny Tinge is back in Labour

David Lammy isn’t a person of colour?

Edit and Dr Allin Khan and Thangam Debbonaire.

Taz

TheScreamingEagles said:

Huge twist.

Newcastle United exposed as liars and should get kicked out of the Premier League

Premier League clubs have reacted with anger to the description in a US court document of the Newcastle chairman, Yasir al-Rumayyan, as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.

The development has prompted calls from Amnesty for the league to re-examine the assurances given by Newcastle’s owners that the Saudi state would not have control of the club.

The Guardian understands that the clubs dismayed by the situation are in no mood to let the matter lie. The document filed this week has raised fresh questions about the level of separation between the Saudi state and the Public Investment Fund (PIF), whose governor is Rumayyan.

A brief filed in a court case involving the PGA Tour and LIV Golf describes the PIF as “a sovereign instrumentality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia” and Rumayyan as “a sitting minister of the Saudi government”.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/02/premier-league-newcastle-owners-us-court-case-amnesty

Top Clubs dismayed at competition for champions league places
Loser clubs dismayed at losing a competitor for relegation.

All over the description of a public figure in a court document.

bigjohnowls

TheScreamingEagles said:

bigjohnowls said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

Not a single person of Colour in the shadow Cabinet? but Angela Funny Tinge is back in Labour

David Lammy isn’t a person of colour?

Edit and Dr Allin Khan and Thangam Debbonaire.

Christ Angela Smiths worst nightmare.

StuartDickson

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

Carnyx

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

That's a bit strong, people can be very professional whatever their political views.

After all 'almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out'.

But her name became big in politics for a time and she was senior. A longer period before a career in politics might have been sensible.

What's she supposed to do, run a donkey sanctuary for ten years first?

MattW

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

DavidL

ohnotnow said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63914518

"Deputy First Minister John Swinney has announced he is leaving the Scottish government after nearly 16 years.

He will stand down once a new first minister is appointed later this month."

Swinney was incompetent, especially as Education minister, but he was the closest thing that Sturgeon had to a safe pair of hands. The prospects of the current cabal around Nicola breaking up are improving.

Selebian

TheScreamingEagles said:

bigjohnowls said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

Not a single person of Colour in the shadow Cabinet? but Angela Funny Tinge is back in Labour

David Lammy isn’t a person of colour?

Edit and Dr Allin Khan and Thangam Debbonaire.

To be fair, he did say not a single person of colour. There's more than one and they're all in relationships, so he's right, however you read it

HYUFD

Certainly getting rid of Boris was a Tory own goal in terms of cutting Labour’s poll lead. As the chart above shows Labour’s lead has only got bigger, massively so under Truss and slightly so still under Sunak.

Though Sunak has run a bit more of a competent less gaffe free government than Boris was in his final period as PM. The LD voteshare is also down from where it was under Boris. So Sunak has regained a few upper middle class Remainers Boris lost, while losing more working class voters to Labour and hardcore Leavers to RefUK

Selebian

Carnyx said:

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

That's a bit strong, people can be very professional whatever their political views.

After all 'almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out'.

But her name became big in politics for a time and she was senior. A longer period before a career in politics might have been sensible.

What's she supposed to do, run a donkey sanctuary for ten years first?

You mean be Conservative Party Chair? Also a bit partisan, that.

Carnyx

Selebian said:

Carnyx said:

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

That's a bit strong, people can be very professional whatever their political views.

After all 'almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out'.

But her name became big in politics for a time and she was senior. A longer period before a career in politics might have been sensible.

What's she supposed to do, run a donkey sanctuary for ten years first?

You mean be Conservative Party Chair?

Nah. Proper nice, bright, relatable perissodactyl ungulates with big ears.

Carnyx

Selebian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

bigjohnowls said:

Selebian said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

I expected him to appoint a person of colour

Not a single person of Colour in the shadow Cabinet? but Angela Funny Tinge is back in Labour

David Lammy isn’t a person of colour?

Edit and Dr Allin Khan and Thangam Debbonaire.

To be fair, he did say not a single person of colour. There's more than one and they're all in relationships, so he's right, however you read it

Either that or BJO is colour blind.

bigjohnowls

Conservative Deputy Chairman Lee Anderson says one family in his local constituency who regularly uses his local food bank, he also sees in McDonalds "two or three times a week."

Is his 2nd job carrying out surveillance outside his local McDonalds. I thought he had a full time job.

Carnyx

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

Other possibility is that SKS is selecting for competence rather than partisanship.

Carnyx

bigjohnowls said:

Conservative Deputy Chairman Lee Anderson says one family in his local constituency who regularly uses his local food bank, he also sees in McDonalds "two or three times a week."

Is his 2nd job carrying out surveillance outside his local McDonalds. I thought he had a full time job.

Nah, he uses his army of local Party wardens for that. He just comes out personally as the final cherry on the cake, or rather ketchup on the burger, when everything is nicely set up and ready for his ceremonial inspection.

Luckyguy1983

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

Selebian

Carnyx said:

Selebian said:

Carnyx said:

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Seems unwise for her reputation to do it so soon. Like Chakrabarti losing any ability to opine in supposedly objective fashion.

It's unwise to do it at all. She should never have been a senior civil servant if she was that partisan.

That's a bit strong, people can be very professional whatever their political views.

After all 'almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out'.

But her name became big in politics for a time and she was senior. A longer period before a career in politics might have been sensible.

What's she supposed to do, run a donkey sanctuary for ten years first?

You mean be Conservative Party Chair?

Nah. Proper nice, bright, relatable perissodactyl ungulates with big ears.

Sounds appealing when you put it like that

JosiasJessop

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Selebian

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

Probably the only time I've ever felt some sympathy towards Dominic Cummings.

Malmesbury

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Some of the eScooters and bikes we are seeing are definitely into serious powered vehicle class. There's one design which seems to be an attempt at looking like a scramble motorbike.

Pavement parking for cars? or eVehicles? I've see visual impaired people tripping over piles of the various scouters, locally.

Carnyx

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

It's when he doesn't have Prof Vallance and Mr 14-polydimensional-Diplomacy-Cummings around that I worry about his ability to count.

TheScreamingEagles

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

It's when he doesn't have Prof Vallance and Mr 14-polydimensional-Diplomacy-Cummings around that I worry about his ability to count.

If the rumours are true then Boris Johnson cannot count the number of children he has.

Driver

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

And the last messages in the pictures at least show that his instincts were right.

noneoftheabove

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

kinabalu

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

He'd better get some talking done, seriously.

Secure the highest sustained growth in the G7
Build an NHS fit for the future
Make Britain’s streets safe
Breakdown the barriers to opportunity at every stage
Make Britain a clean energy superpower

Which is your favourite? See if it's the same as mine.

Luckyguy1983

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

It's when he doesn't have Prof Vallance and Mr 14-polydimensional-Diplomacy-Cummings around that I worry about his ability to count.

It wouldn't worry me if he didn't have an ability to count, providing he had access to someone who was good at it. There were other, very serious deficiencies in Borises PMship, but I don't think this Whatsapp thread demonstrates a big one.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

It's when he doesn't have Prof Vallance and Mr 14-polydimensional-Diplomacy-Cummings around that I worry about his ability to count.

If the rumours are true then Boris Johnson cannot count the number of children he has.

Not enough fingers?

Driver

kinabalu said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

He'd better get some talking done, seriously.

Secure the highest sustained growth in the G7
Build an NHS fit for the future
Make Britain’s streets safe
Breakdown the barriers to opportunity at every stage
Make Britain a clean energy superpower

Which is your favourite? See if it's the same as mine.

Are those Sir Keir's big policies? That's sub-EdStone level.

ydoethur

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

I posted this on the previous thread, and I realise it may be unpopular, but:

Speaking as a cyclist, tragic though it must be for the dead person's family, on the facts as reported that's an utterly ridiculous verdict:

1) If the police could not say it was a shared space, then it wasn't. Something is not a *shared space* unless clearly nominated as such. So if the report is accurate the judge has misdirected the jury.

2) Even if it was a shared space, the cyclist had no business cycling towards a pedestrian like that, as they would have right of way and must be given that way. (I would add, if it was a shared space it's totally unsuitable for it given how narrow it is.)

3) Shouting 'get off the fucking path' to somebody who is illegally cycling on the path and presenting a hazard is not actually an unreasonable thing to do.

4) How is it, to take this to its logical end, that an illegal motorcyclist round here riding at high speed on the pavement can get a telling off (literally, that is what Staffordshire Police will do) and somebody shouting at somebody to stop breaking the law, albeit with this horrible result, gets sent to prison?

An example of how the law can make a complete ass of itself.

TheScreamingEagles

Awww

A mum has wowed royal fans after transforming her son into Prince Harry for World Book Day.
📚

Three-year-old Ellis Wright is known for his bold personality. Keen to follow her son's wishes, as he didn't want a traditional costume for his first World Book Day at preschool, mum Melissa suggested the Duke of Sussex and author of Spare - and the youngster loved it.

📚
Using children's hair spray and face paint, she transformed Ellis into Prince Harry, complete with ginger hair and a beard, which her son picked as his favourite part of the outfit.

Big_G_NorthWales

Good afternoon

I mentioned some time ago that I had taken out a new BT contract last September and at the time I directly referred to the CPI+ 3.9% increase due in April 2023 and expressed concern. The representative accepted that they were under pressure and was aware of Ofcom’s interest in these charges. He said that if I agree the contract now then if I phone in March, they will ameliorate the increase. I took a note of the conversation, the staff member’s name, and the time.

As promised, I said I would let colleagues on this forum know of the outcome of my talks with BT in March.

Today I had that conversation and have agreed a new deal at less than my existing contract even before the April 14% increase, saving £14.25 per month.

Similarly, I received an increase notice from Sky, notwithstanding a new contract I took out in January this year, and again I managed to avoid the April increase and obtain a £9 per month reduction.

It seems that these companies are using these high price increases to take out new contracts, and in my case good savings, as I had already taken out new contracts with them in the last 6 months.

They do take quite a time on the phone to complete negotiations but remaining firm and polite, though the odd reference to Ofcom can be beneficial and I hope this information may be of assistance to colleagues.

I should say that in BT’s case I have full fibre broadband 100 + halo+ landline+ BT sport with second box + 2 sim cards.

Fishing

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

It's when he doesn't have Prof Vallance and Mr 14-polydimensional-Diplomacy-Cummings around that I worry about his ability to count.

Johnson is an Oxford Arts man. I doubt he had to use any maths at all after he left school.

If you want pretentious classical quotations or obscure historial references, though, he's your man.

FeersumEnjineeya

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Edit: I'd add that the sentence does seem harsh, but perhaps that was partly due to the failure of the pedestrian to render any sort of aid after the accident.

Driver

TheScreamingEagles said:

Awww

A mum has wowed royal fans after transforming her son into Prince Harry for World Book Day.

I'm sure it did get a lot of "Wow"s on Facebook...

CD13

Hancock is a fool, and barely fit to be a politician. He trusts a journalist to keep her word. BoJo is a journalist too, so he's a double fool.

When you sup with the devil, use a long spoon.

HYUFD

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

Indeed, that is what the PM pays his advisers for.

Boris’ comments there will also go down well with the anti lockdown, RefUK crowd

bigjohnowls

kinabalu said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

He'd better get some talking done, seriously.

Secure the highest sustained growth in the G7
Build an NHS fit for the future
Make Britain’s streets safe
Breakdown the barriers to opportunity at every stage
Make Britain a clean energy superpower

Which is your favourite? See if it's the same as mine.

Meaningless soundbite
Meaningless soundbite
Meaningless soundbite
Meaningless soundbite
Or Meaningless soundbite

My favorite is meaningless soundbite but as SKS is a liar i fear it may end up in the meaningless soundbite bin by next month along with all the previous pledges/promises/missions

Pity

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

Indeed, that is what the PM pays his advisers for.

Boris’ comments there will also go down well with the anti lockdown, RefUK crowd

He pays people public money because he can't do primary school level maths? You serious? Great value for money, all right.

williamglenn

kinabalu said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

eek said:

Sue Gray has been appointed SKS's chief of staff..

Rubbish appointment.

She obviously fancies the Cab Sec role next year.

Starmer is preparing for Government.

But not in an overconfident and hubristic way. It's just that things are looking awwwright.

He'd better get some talking done, seriously.

Secure the highest sustained growth in the G7
Build an NHS fit for the future
Make Britain’s streets safe
Breakdown the barriers to opportunity at every stage
Make Britain a clean energy superpower

Which is your favourite? See if it's the same as mine.

Two and possibly three of them are a bit tainted by national exceptionalism, so I guess you would have to pick making the streets safe or breaking down barriers to opportunity.

noneoftheabove

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Personally very confused as to why the pedestrian does not have right of way even if it is shared use. At the point they crossed by the lamppost there is not room for both of them. Why does the cyclist have priority?

The pedestrian was rude, aggressive and apparently unremorseful, but from whats been reported manslaughter feels a very big stretch.

bigjohnowls

‘The NHS is a huge bureaucratic black hole and we’re just throwing taxpayer's money at it and it’s not working.’

Political commentator
@ReemAmirIbrahim
calls for a free market health care service in the UK.

Looks like SKS material for Health Secretary if Streetings Pet Shop past catches up with him

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

StuartDickson said:

If this wasn’t a real conversation between a PM and his scientific and political advisers about a lethal pandemic, it would be funny. Sadly it is real and thoroughly depressing. Is the teaching of maths at Eton so poor? Johnson: “What is the mortality rate of Covid?” @Telegraph





https://twitter.com/peston/status/1630960569585999874?s=46

Boris Johnson is a total fanny.

It doesn't strike me as a terrible solecism by Boris - he doesn't understand something and asks the questions he needs to understand it.

Indeed, that is what the PM pays his advisers for.

Boris’ comments there will also go down well with the anti lockdown, RefUK crowd

You mean Oakeshott and Tice who are busily trashing their brand

FeersumEnjineeya

noneoftheabove said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Personally very confused as to why the pedestrian does not have right of way even if it is shared use. At the point they crossed by the lamppost there is not room for both of them. Why does the cyclist have priority?

The pedestrian was rude, aggressive and apparently unremorseful, but from whats been reported manslaughter feels a very big stretch.

Yes, I agree with you. But as I noted in my edit, the harsh sentence may have been due to the failure of the pedestrian to render any sort of aid after the accident, or indeed to stay at the scene.

Carnyx

noneoftheabove said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Personally very confused as to why the pedestrian does not have right of way even if it is shared use. At the point they crossed by the lamppost there is not room for both of them. Why does the cyclist have priority?

The pedestrian was rude, aggressive and apparently unremorseful, but from whats been reported manslaughter feels a very big stretch.

Can't see why it is even shared. A pavement at the side of the road without any bike logos painted on it looks very like a pedestrian-only route.

GIN1138

TheScreamingEagles said:

Awww

A mum has wowed royal fans after transforming her son into Prince Harry for World Book Day.
📚

Three-year-old Ellis Wright is known for his bold personality. Keen to follow her son's wishes, as he didn't want a traditional costume for his first World Book Day at preschool, mum Melissa suggested the Duke of Sussex and author of Spare - and the youngster loved it.

📚
Using children's hair spray and face paint, she transformed Ellis into Prince Harry, complete with ginger hair and a beard, which her son picked as his favourite part of the outfit.

Lets just hope she keeps him awake from the Crack pipe...

ydoethur

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

We have had of course discussions before about the poor cycling provision in your area, which is odd because it's not far from where I live and the cycling provision by contrast is excellent.

However, a few points need to be made:

1) If it was designated as a cycleway, then it wasn't one and the cyclist was at fault.

2) Is that a killing matter? No. I cycle on pavements that are not cycleways from time to time. Am I breaking the law? Yes. Do I consider that, if the footpath is empty and I have a queue of traffic behind me, less important than letting them through? Also yes. But if there is anyone walking on the path - even if it's a shared way - I either revert to the road to avoid them, or stop to let them past. This person did neither.

3) Is there an issue on the ground where the road is dangerous for cyclists so they are using the pavement for that reason? The video suggests 'yes.' However, that doesn't alter the fact that this other person - who let us not forget is partially sighted so was not in a position to safely take avoiding action - was in the right. She said, in fact, something I have frequently said to motorcyclists riding on the pavement. And the judge, in saying otherwise, is in the wrong.

4) Does a cyclist deserve to die for that? Again, obviously not. But she was still in the wrong.

4) Could the report be wrong? Also yes. But if it isn't, there's been a clear miscarriage of justice. Bound over to keep the peace might be an appropriate verdict, a jail sentence is sheer lunacy.

That said, as you say the poor provision for cyclists to move about safely is probably at the root of the problem. But for that there would have been no problem.

Selebian

noneoftheabove said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Personally very confused as to why the pedestrian does not have right of way even if it is shared use. At the point they crossed by the lamppost there is not room for both of them. Why does the cyclist have priority?

The pedestrian was rude, aggressive and apparently unremorseful, but from whats been reported manslaughter feels a very big stretch.

I initially thought it seemed very harsh on the pedestrian, changed my mind a little when it turned out to be apparently shared use, although the lack of clarity on that is unclear - I also didn't know about a pinch point at the scene.

I'm always a bit uneasy about sentencing that is based on outcomes of an action rather than the action. Had there not been a car passing, the sentence, if it even got to court, would have been minor. Likewise, there was a report on the BBC website a few days back about a lad who drove a car into the back of a lorry at high speed, after a police chase, where the lorry was bumped off the road and the car rebounded onto the chasing police car getting a suspended sentence. Luck brought no serious injuries in that case, but that looks to me to be the bigger crime.

ETA: Don't think the video was there when I first saw, or I missed it. Ridiculous shared space - an accident waiting to happen.

tlg86

TheScreamingEagles said:

Awww

A mum has wowed royal fans after transforming her son into Prince Harry for World Book Day.
📚

Three-year-old Ellis Wright is known for his bold personality. Keen to follow her son's wishes, as he didn't want a traditional costume for his first World Book Day at preschool, mum Melissa suggested the Duke of Sussex and author of Spare - and the youngster loved it.

📚
Using children's hair spray and face paint, she transformed Ellis into Prince Harry, complete with ginger hair and a beard, which her son picked as his favourite part of the outfit.

Call social services.

PoodleInASlipstream

JosiasJessop said:

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

Very true. But the essential difference is drivers have a two-ton lump of metal moving at high speed so the consequences of their errors are so much worse. The more dangerous a vehicle is, the more the driver should have to prove they are competent to be in charge of that vehicle.

Drivers are massively under-regulated to the point of insanity, purely because they are such a powerful voting bloc. I find it grimly amusing that as someone who rides a scooter regularly (the motorcycle kind, not an e-scooter) I have to pass two practical tests to get a license, while car drivers only have to do one. If I want to ride a scooter with a larger engine I have to go back and do those tests again on a more powerful machine.

But drivers can do one test in a Ford Fiesta and then run off and buy a McLaren and possibly kill someone with it.

When I'm out riding I am not afraid of pedestrians, runners or cyclists. But I am very afraid of drivers, enough to treat each one like they are a blind, selfish, incompetent fool. Because far too many of them are. And the Government is not interested in getting them off the road until it's too late.

Want to reduce congestion, pollution and road fatalities? Make drivers sit a refresher test every 5 years and sort cars into categories based on power/size/wight and make people take a test on that type of car before they can drive it. A lot will fail because they're just not safe behind the wheel, which is why none of our political parties have the balls to try anything like this. They'll keep tinkering with 20mph limits and LTNs, ignoring the real problem because it's politically toxic to actually fix it.

noneoftheabove

Selebian said:

noneoftheabove said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

noneoftheabove said:

JosiasJessop said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Malmesbury said:

The again, we have the clowns who think that any attempt to at stopping ebikes doing 30mph on pedestrian pathways on the Thames embankments is "blocking the future".

Apparently, doing 5mph like the other cyclists - because of the large number of people walking, children etc - is "too restricting"

If you have a vehicle with power and you want to ride at that speed there are some other "pathways" you can use. London is full of them.

I go for

- Geo locking
- Spot checks. If you have a e-whatever with geolocking disabled, straight to the crusher.

Interesting points.

1 - If it does 30mph, it's a moped not an ebike (which top out assistance at 14.5mph), so is subject to all moped regulation. Speaking as a resident of Chiswick for 4 years, yes, confiscate and crush in those circs.

2 - Would you go for geo-locking and crushing to control pavement parking? It's an interesting idea, and pavement parking is a far greater disruption than anything any e-bike or moped does.

Taz said:

I bet you are a devotee of Jeremy Vine's twitter feed too and that Cycling Mikey clown.

I think Vine does a job of keeping some things in the public eye, which need to be there. I agree with him *some* of the time.

I find Mikey more interesting, and he does a decent job of getting dangerous drivers (which is his 'Gandalf' wrong-side-of-the-road drivers and all mobile phone using drivers) into continuing education courses, at a time when this country has *zero* routine continuing education for drivers, and an appalling road culture. It is interesting how much support he gets from senior members at places like Pistonheads and Pepipoo.

Far better if we were all updated every 10 years when we replace our photocards, but for now ROSPA, the IAM, Ashley Neal, Cycling Mikey, lots of dash cammers, and various bits and pieces are all we have.

I walk, run, cycle and drive. I have seen bad pedestrians, runners, cyclists and drivers. I have been a bad pedestrian, runner, cyclist and pedestrian at times. It's called being human, and making mistakes. Part of the battle for improvement is acknowledging that.

I have seen some *terrible* cyclists; including some speed demons whilst on a run last Sunday. Six or seven lycra-clad pepperamis were coming towards me three abreast along a single track road, and instead of going into single or double file, they just ploughed on towards me at speed, forcing me onto the verge,

Wankers.

I'd love it if Vine gave examples where *he'd* got things wrong. Perhaps he does, but they never appear in my feed. But from what I see, he comes across as a little bit of a Peter Perfect.

Apologies if its been done already but what are pb cyclists thoughts on todays manslaughter conviction and 3 year jail term for the pedestrian ruled to have caused a cyclists death?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

The quote:

"The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway."

stands out. I'd say that, as is not uncommon in the UK, poor road / cycle path design is the main culprit in this instance.

Personally very confused as to why the pedestrian does not have right of way even if it is shared use. At the point they crossed by the lamppost there is not room for both of them. Why does the cyclist have priority?

The pedestrian was rude, aggressive and apparently unremorseful, but from whats been reported manslaughter feels a very big stretch.

I initially thought it seemed very harsh on the pedestrian, changed my mind a little when it turned out to be apparently shared use, although the lack of clarity on that is unclear - I also didn't know about a pinch point at the scene.

I'm always a bit uneasy about sentencing that is based on outcomes of an action rather than the action. Had there not been a car passing, the sentence, if it even got to court, would have been minor. Likewise, there was a report on the BBC website a few days back about a lad who drove a car into the back of a lorry at high speed, after a police chase, where the lorry was bumped off the road and the car rebounded onto the chasing police car getting a suspended sentence. Luck brought no serious injuries in that case, but that looks to me to be the bigger crime.

Yes I was amazed that 100mph crash was not a prison sentence. And the driving ban was only 2 years! To me that seemed worthy of 2 years prison and 10 year driving ban,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-64809523