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Kate Forbes tops a Scottish poll – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Politics at anecdotal level.

    With a group of pro-Brexit and normally solid Tory friends, plenty of jokes about "turnips" and widespread ridicule of Therese Coffey.

    The real danger isn't when they hate you - it's when they laugh at you. There's a way back if you aren't liked - there's no way back if you become a joke.

    More than 2 turnip jokes, plus additional non-turnip related ridicule of Therese Coffey?
    No, mostly turnip related.

    Plenty of Blackadder references and my comment that she couldn't really have said "British people should eat swedes" got a few laughs.

    Just a sense Coffey was hopelessly out of touch though, as I said on here the other night, there's a germ of a truth here about the availability of fruit and vegetables and expectations now against say 40 years ago.
    She could have hailed back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess, when they believed tomatoes were poison.
    No tomatoes in Sainsbury tonight, nor turnips either, though they did have some bags of salad.

    I didn't peruse the tinned fish section so cannot report on that.
    Evening Foxy. Amazing recommendation Daises! How did I ever miss that one?

    It’s just like in this flat! It’s my life! Especially the cheeky bits of sexual violence. [spank on bottom with whatever object at hand - are you listening to me?]
  • Options

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Do you know what irony is?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    FF43 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Keir Starmer’s election war chest has been given an extraordinary boost after one of the biggest New Labour-era donors returned to the party fold with a £2m donation, the Observer can reveal.

    David Sainsbury, who was consistently one of the largest donors under the last Labour government before withdrawing his support, has now renewed his backing with his first multimillion-pound donation since 2016.

    In a development claimed by Starmer’s allies as a sign of rising support within the business world, Lord Sainsbury, the former chairman of the Sainsbury’s supermarket chain, said he had been attracted back to Labour by its leader’s desire to “reunite the country around an agenda of economic growth and social justice”.

    The news comes as insiders say that the party is now “debt- and deficit-free” after facing significant bills for legal action, redundancies and falling membership revenue that left it plunging into the red at the start of last year. It also signals that the race to raise funds before the next election has already begun.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/25/lord-sainsbury-returns-to-the-labour-fold-with-2m-donation?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1677352148

    What regulations did it buy him? I don't believe for a moment this is a man motivated by reuniting the country or social justice the guy is an ass
    The disaster capitalists who bankroll Brexit and the Tories got plenty of presumably profitable disaster for their money.
    Did I claim they didnt? Anyone donating 2 million to any political cause is doing it for payback
    What about people that leave vast sums in their wills?
    Fecking virtue signallers.

    It always annoys me that Washington got a free pass from the anti-slavery woke lobby because he freed his slaves in his will, which shows he was a Conscientious Master.

    No he wasn't. If he was, he'd have freed them when he was alive. He freed them because he had no further use for them and no direct heir.

    Same with people who give nothing to charity when they're alive and then salve their conscience by publicly leaving gazillions they can't put in a shroud.
    Two categories of bequest beneficiaries which are free of IHT:

    (a) registered UK charities
    (b) the Tory Party (well, other parties too, but in practice ...)
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    HYUFD said:

    Given Forbes only leads Yousaf by 2% amongst SNP voters, amongst SNP members Yousaf might be ahead

    That's what I was thinking, but will he be far enough ahead in the first round to win if the transfers go against him?

    From what little I have seen on pro-Sturgeon social media there are plenty of people who consider Regan to be determined to launch an anti-trans witch hunt, and Forbes to be akin to a Trump-supporting bible basher poised to ban abortion - so there might be not much crossover between Yousaf's support and support for the two female candidates.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
    My mate told me that I don't understand irony either. Which was ironic because we were at a bus stop at the time.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    FF43 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Keir Starmer’s election war chest has been given an extraordinary boost after one of the biggest New Labour-era donors returned to the party fold with a £2m donation, the Observer can reveal.

    David Sainsbury, who was consistently one of the largest donors under the last Labour government before withdrawing his support, has now renewed his backing with his first multimillion-pound donation since 2016.

    In a development claimed by Starmer’s allies as a sign of rising support within the business world, Lord Sainsbury, the former chairman of the Sainsbury’s supermarket chain, said he had been attracted back to Labour by its leader’s desire to “reunite the country around an agenda of economic growth and social justice”.

    The news comes as insiders say that the party is now “debt- and deficit-free” after facing significant bills for legal action, redundancies and falling membership revenue that left it plunging into the red at the start of last year. It also signals that the race to raise funds before the next election has already begun.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/25/lord-sainsbury-returns-to-the-labour-fold-with-2m-donation?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1677352148

    What regulations did it buy him? I don't believe for a moment this is a man motivated by reuniting the country or social justice the guy is an ass
    The disaster capitalists who bankroll Brexit and the Tories got plenty of presumably profitable disaster for their money.
    Did I claim they didnt? Anyone donating 2 million to any political cause is doing it for payback
    What about people that leave vast sums in their wills?
    Fecking virtue signallers.

    It always annoys me that Washington got a free pass from the anti-slavery woke lobby because he freed his slaves in his will, which shows he was a Conscientious Master.

    No he wasn't. If he was, he'd have freed them when he was alive. He freed them because he had no further use for them and no direct heir.

    Same with people who give nothing to charity when they're alive and then salve their conscience by publicly leaving gazillions they can't put in a shroud.
    Americans are desperate for Washington to be a good guy on this issue. I remember when we visited Mount Vernon they were all so keen to put a "good master" gloss on it all, it was kind of nauseating. I asked some awkward questions because the whole thing was sickening. None of the Virginia founding fathers come out of it smelling if roses. But at least the Americans have got Lincoln, one of the real great men from history, perhaps the greatest.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    ...
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,716
    EPG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    They must have hated Liz Truss's race more.
    Liz Truss's poor polling was down to her own foolish actions.

    Rishi Sunak's polling challenges are down to the ERG, Lee Anderson, Liz Truss writing articles and not being sorry, Boris ptsd, a proportion of the public being racist scumbags, and anything else we can pull out of our arse today.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    Kevin Schofield @KevinASchofield

    Rishi Sunak has told the Sunday Times that “there’s unfinished business on Brexit and I want to get the job done”.

    Must have been a different Rishi Sunak who said in the 2019 election that a majority Tory govt would “get Brexit done” in 2020.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,458

    EPG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    They must have hated Liz Truss's race more.
    Liz Truss's poor polling was down to her own foolish actions.

    Rishi Sunak's polling challenges are down to the ERG, Lee Anderson, Liz Truss writing articles and not being sorry, Boris ptsd, a proportion of the public being racist scumbags, and anything else we can pull out of our arse today.
    Don't worry, it's also down to his own foolish actions. Like his Braverman and Williamson appointments.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,458

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Never change, Sunil.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
    My mate told me that I don't understand irony either. Which was ironic because we were at a bus stop at the time.
    I’m with you Sunil. Seal pups done a bump of K this evening
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883

    In other news, and while buildings are lit up in Ukranian colours all over the West, Russia appears to be mounting a serious assault on Bakhmut tonight according to Twitter.

    Situation is looking bad for the Ukrainians in Bakhmut now.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    According to Sources on the Ground near Bakhmut it is reported that Russian/Wagner Forces have broken through Ukrainian Defensive Lines to the Northwest of Bakhmut and have advanced to the Settlement of Bohdanivka.


    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1629607442182033411

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    Bakhmut is effectively Operationally Encircled.
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    NZ - 209 all out

    Lead of 226

    England enforce follow on
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,601
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
    My mate told me that I don't understand irony either. Which was ironic because we were at a bus stop at the time.
    Which is exactly like rain on your wedding day.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,357
    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    Not voting for someone because they're Muslim isn't racist, it's Islamophobic.

    I genuinely think very few people are arsed if someone is a different skin colour. Rather more are arsed if they are culturally different.

    There was a psychology book a few years back, 'Thinking, fast and slow' or some such. What I'm talking about here is the 'fast' thinking - the instinctive reaction to people before the rational part of the brain ticks in and corrects it. My view is that the 'fast' part of almost everyone in the country's brains is entirely comfortable with different skin colours, but possibly balks slightly at visible cultural differences.
    So I'm not just splitting hairs here.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,458

    In other news, and while buildings are lit up in Ukranian colours all over the West, Russia appears to be mounting a serious assault on Bakhmut tonight according to Twitter.

    Situation is looking bad for the Ukrainians in Bakhmut now.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    According to Sources on the Ground near Bakhmut it is reported that Russian/Wagner Forces have broken through Ukrainian Defensive Lines to the Northwest of Bakhmut and have advanced to the Settlement of Bohdanivka.


    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1629607442182033411

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    Bakhmut is effectively Operationally Encircled.
    Has been predicted for some time, though if actually trapped that is at the worst end of expectations.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    edited February 2023
    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Though if you reject medicalisation and both surgery and chemical intervention that does mean Trans-folk will be hormonally and physically intact in their original state, yet living as the opposite gender. How comfortable are you with that?
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,909
    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Yes. - Also Trans by Helen Joyce.

    Tolerating gender non-conformity while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately chemical/surgical intervention is where most are already at. It's the trans-activists that are the problem - I really think this is being recognised now.
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,357
    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Well, quite.

    Take away the label 'gender non-conformity' - basically we're saying don't be nasty to a boy who's a bit effeminate or a girl who's a bit masculine. Should be utterly uncontroversial. There aren't exactly two personality types - a 'male' one and a 'female' one: there's hundreds and hundreds. That's surely the more straightforward and compassionate position to take than 'there are exactly two personality types to have and if the one you have doesn't match your biological stereotype then you need to choose the other one and have medical interventions' - which appears to be the position of the trans lobby.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    Not voting for someone because they're Muslim isn't racist, it's Islamophobic.

    I genuinely think very few people are arsed if someone is a different skin colour. Rather more are arsed if they are culturally different.

    There was a psychology book a few years back, 'Thinking, fast and slow' or some such. What I'm talking about here is the 'fast' thinking - the instinctive reaction to people before the rational part of the brain ticks in and corrects it. My view is that the 'fast' part of almost everyone in the country's brains is entirely comfortable with different skin colours, but possibly balks slightly at visible cultural differences.
    So I'm not just splitting hairs here.
    How many is "very few"? 1%? 5%?, 10%? On the political right or left?

    I think it in part explains some of the RefUK vote. Not the entirety of course.

    And of course there will also be a positive vote for Sunak for similar reasons.

    How this nets out is of significance to political bettors.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,444
    EPG said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
    My mate told me that I don't understand irony either. Which was ironic because we were at a bus stop at the time.
    Which is exactly like rain on your wedding day.
    It’s easy to mock the song for a string of suggestions that are not, in fact, ironic, but perhaps it’s more meta than that? The author knows none of them are ironic, and that’s the irony…
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,457

    In other news, and while buildings are lit up in Ukranian colours all over the West, Russia appears to be mounting a serious assault on Bakhmut tonight according to Twitter.

    Situation is looking bad for the Ukrainians in Bakhmut now.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    According to Sources on the Ground near Bakhmut it is reported that Russian/Wagner Forces have broken through Ukrainian Defensive Lines to the Northwest of Bakhmut and have advanced to the Settlement of Bohdanivka.


    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1629607442182033411

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    Bakhmut is effectively Operationally Encircled.
    UA Map have stopped updating which is generally what happens when matters develop not necessarily to Ukraine's best advantage. eg Soledar.



    They really should change that explosion icon from a mushroom cloud to something less alarming. PMC Wagner must be fighting with pointy sticks at this point because Shoigu/Gerasimov are desperate for Prigozhin not to get a politically spectacular win so they have turned off the ammo tap.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,805
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Though if you reject medicalisation and both surgery and chemical intervention that does mean Trans-folk will be hormonally and physically intact in their original state, yet living as the opposite gender. How comfortable are you with that?
    I think society will adjust.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    EPG said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Look…oh forget it
    But Sunil is right. She hasn’t been in change UK since 2019. Do you really need us to link it for you 🙄
    My mate told me that I don't understand irony either. Which was ironic because we were at a bus stop at the time.
    Which is exactly like rain on your wedding day.
    More like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,267

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    ping said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Though if you reject medicalisation and both surgery and chemical intervention that does mean Trans-folk will be hormonally and physically intact in their original state, yet living as the opposite gender. How comfortable are you with that?
    I think society will adjust.
    Well, I don't see much evidence of that.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,444
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    Not voting for someone because they're Muslim isn't racist, it's Islamophobic.

    I genuinely think very few people are arsed if someone is a different skin colour. Rather more are arsed if they are culturally different.

    There was a psychology book a few years back, 'Thinking, fast and slow' or some such. What I'm talking about here is the 'fast' thinking - the instinctive reaction to people before the rational part of the brain ticks in and corrects it. My view is that the 'fast' part of almost everyone in the country's brains is entirely comfortable with different skin colours, but possibly balks slightly at visible cultural differences.
    So I'm not just splitting hairs here.
    I think that’s why some take so much issue with the hijab/veils etc. It’s an othering device, no matter what skin colour is involved. It runs counter to western ideas (whether it’s worn by choice or not). Get past it and know the person.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    1 takes place mostly in the auumn, the other after Christmas.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,267

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
    To the extent that racism exists in this country, it will be more about prejudice over cultural traits. I don't see conservative votes applying it to a conservative PM.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    kle4 said:

    In other news, and while buildings are lit up in Ukranian colours all over the West, Russia appears to be mounting a serious assault on Bakhmut tonight according to Twitter.

    Situation is looking bad for the Ukrainians in Bakhmut now.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    According to Sources on the Ground near Bakhmut it is reported that Russian/Wagner Forces have broken through Ukrainian Defensive Lines to the Northwest of Bakhmut and have advanced to the Settlement of Bohdanivka.


    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1629607442182033411

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    Bakhmut is effectively Operationally Encircled.
    Has been predicted for some time, though if actually trapped that is at the worst end of expectations.
    I think Mariupol has been the only encirclement completed in the war so far. Both sides have proven to be pretty good at knowing when it was time to abandon a position that was under threat and so have avoided losing large numbers of soldiers to encirclement. Hopefully the same will prove to be the case here, and most of the Ukrainian defenders will make it out.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    1 takes place mostly in the auumn, the other after Christmas.
    Even so. It seems a bit pointless. It always has. Even when it was the League/Rumbalows/Milk Cup it seemed surplus to requirements.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    edited February 2023
    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
    To the extent that racism exists in this country, it will be more about prejudice over cultural traits. I don't see conservative votes applying it to a conservative PM.
    I am sure that the vast majority of Tory voters agree. I am also sure that it won't be 100%.

    And of course there will be some who choose to vote Tory for the same reason.

    How it nets out, and under FPTP where it affects are factors that punters may want to consider.
  • Options
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Politics at anecdotal level.

    With a group of pro-Brexit and normally solid Tory friends, plenty of jokes about "turnips" and widespread ridicule of Therese Coffey.

    The real danger isn't when they hate you - it's when they laugh at you. There's a way back if you aren't liked - there's no way back if you become a joke.

    More than 2 turnip jokes, plus additional non-turnip related ridicule of Therese Coffey?
    No, mostly turnip related.

    Plenty of Blackadder references and my comment that she couldn't really have said "British people should eat swedes" got a few laughs.

    Just a sense Coffey was hopelessly out of touch though, as I said on here the other night, there's a germ of a truth here about the availability of fruit and vegetables and expectations now against say 40 years ago.
    Yes, I've mentioned before my astonishment as a student 40 years ago at seeing peaches on sale in Hampstead while snow lay on the ground.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,657
    Cookie - You are right to remind us of Kahneman's book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

    (Which, amazingly enough, was a best seller.)

    I had seen some of the research the book is based on, years earlier, but it was good to see it summarized so brilliantly.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    1 takes place mostly in the auumn, the other after Christmas.
    Even so. It seems a bit pointless. It always has. Even when it was the League/Rumbalows/Milk Cup it seemed surplus to requirements.
    Remember the Full Members' Cup?

    Not only was it pointless, it had a name that made you think of cocks.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    1 takes place mostly in the auumn, the other after Christmas.
    Even so. It seems a bit pointless. It always has. Even when it was the League/Rumbalows/Milk Cup it seemed surplus to requirements.
    Remember the Full Members' Cup?

    Not only was it pointless, it had a name that made you think of cocks.
    Was that what became the Zenith Data Systems Cup? Yes indeed,
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,228
    I very much hope that Kate Forbes is elected next leader of the SNP.
  • Options
    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    There's something about enforcing the follow-on that always has the air of hubris, unless there is a severe shortage of time left in the match. Have England made a mistake?
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,716
    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
    To the extent that racism exists in this country, it will be more about prejudice over cultural traits. I don't see conservative votes applying it to a conservative PM.
    I am sure that the vast majority of Tory voters agree. I am also sure that it won't be 100%.

    And of course there will be some who choose to vote Tory for the same reason.

    How it nets out, and under FPTP where it affects are factors that punters may want to consider.
    If Sunak's race is having an impact on his polling, it seems far likelier to me that it would be in his favour, with some people not wishing to seem too condemnatory toward our first Asian PM.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited February 2023

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    edited February 2023
    Just when the Muslim Council of the UK fades into obscurity we get the Scottish Association of Mosques, FB followers 5, Twitter followers 17.


  • Options
    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    It was an Alan Hardaker vanity project.
  • Options
    The Labour Party has turned a significant corner under Keir’s leadership. I’m pleased to be returning to my political home.

    https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/1629563100109197326
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883

    Just when the Muslim Council of the UK fades into obscurity we get the Scottish Association of Mosques, FB followers 5, Twitter followers 17.


    All so-called community leaders are self-appointed to one extent or another, so it's something of a surprise that this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's basically just an extension of the election campaign tactic used by the Tories on social media in recent years to create astroturf groups for the purpose of deceptive campaigning.
  • Options

    Just when the Muslim Council of the UK fades into obscurity we get the Scottish Association of Mosques, FB followers 5, Twitter followers 17.


    All so-called community leaders are self-appointed to one extent or another, so it's something of a surprise that this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's basically just an extension of the election campaign tactic used by the Tories on social media in recent years to create astroturf groups for the purpose of deceptive campaigning.
    Depressing that the supposedly sceptical, whip smart press falls for it though.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,657
    One of the "thinking fast" prejudices against Sunak is, I am nearly certain, his height.

    (For the record: I am close to the average height, for an American man.)
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited February 2023

    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
    To the extent that racism exists in this country, it will be more about prejudice over cultural traits. I don't see conservative votes applying it to a conservative PM.
    I am sure that the vast majority of Tory voters agree. I am also sure that it won't be 100%.

    And of course there will be some who choose to vote Tory for the same reason.

    How it nets out, and under FPTP where it affects are factors that punters may want to consider.
    If Sunak's race is having an impact on his polling, it seems far likelier to me that it would be in his favour, with some people not wishing to seem too condemnatory toward our first Asian PM.
    If he does fight the next GE, it’ll be interesting to see the differential swing in certain constituencies. I think the tories will notably outperform in wealthier Asian areas, like Solihull.

    He’ll get crucified in the red wall which will get interpreted as racism, but is really down to the unconservative and illiberal Boris 2019 big state platform reverting to a cameronite liberal/austerity agenda.

    Sunak’s performance in red wall constituencies should really be benchmarked against 2010/15.

    I know there’s current red wall polling vs 2019 (mrp?) but has any polling company done the figures on current vs. 2010/15?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,486
    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    Forbes is more rightwing than Sunak so obviously the Mail has some sympathy with her despise her pro independence views
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,403
    WillG said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To channel my inner @Leon for a moment, not long back from a really busy central London. A very pleasant late lunch in Piccadilly but a rather less pleasant walk back to the tube with the raucous braying of Manchester United and Newcastle fans filling the chill West End evening.

    Why do we innocent Londoners have to put up with this nonsense? We're already full of lovely tourists enjoying our hospitality and devalued currency but we now have to deal with thousands of football fans.

    Basic economic sense dictates we can hold the EFL Final anywhere - it's not that important - why not at some stadium in the north to avoid all the travelling? I believe football is played at anfield - well, it was, not much evidence of it this season admittedly.

    Playing the final in London is more convenient for the majority of glory hunting Man U "fans" than somewhere close to Manchester.

    While my support for The Toon has waned, I would love it if we beat them tomorrow. (As someone once said.)
    I find the EFL cup largely pointless. We have the FA Cup as the main cup competition. Why do we need another one?
    They brought them in when floodlights became common-place and they could play evening games. As long as they attract crowds it will continue, even if it is inconvenient for the mega clubs.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,228
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    Forbes is more rightwing than Sunak so obviously the Mail has some sympathy with her despise her pro independence views
    Is she more right-wing on other subjects apart from marriage?
  • Options
    ping said:

    Just finished “Time to think” by Hannah Barnes, about GIDS/Tavistock.

    Worth a read, imo.

    Don’t make the mistake I made, though. Get the real book/kindle, not the audiobook. Too many statistics and different characters to keep track of. Better read in black and white.

    It’s not really a page turner, more a very extensive newsnight investigation.

    What makes it so compelling is that it’s genuinely written from a position of compassion for young trans people.

    I do hope this book helps push society in the direction of greater tolerance for gender non-conformity, while rejecting medicalisation & ultimately, chemical/surgical intervention.

    The kids bodies are just fine - they don’t need “fixing”, should be the guiding principle.

    Oh, and people who bully gender non-conforming people/kids are dicks. Always have been, always will be.

    Just finished it too. Thought it a balanced account which included trans kids who had followed the “affirmative care” path now championed almost exclusively by the US and were happy well adjusted adults, others who’d done the same and bitterly regretted it and some in the middle who thought the medical solution was not right for them.

    What emerged for me was it was primarily a management failure - no one set out to do harm, but the GIDS service lost sight of its founding principle of balancing psychiatric care with medical intervention, and effectively ended up as simply gatekeepers (of widely varying quality) for puberty blockers and hormones.

    Concerns were raised by clinicians throughout its history but the people at the top wouldn’t listen - and some may have felt pressure from Mermaids/Gendered Intelligence into following the affirmative care model. Critics were ignored or accused of transphobia. Gay clinicians who raised concerns over internalised or familial homophobia were dismissed as they raised concerns over “transing away the gay” - some families would be much happier with a straight trans son than a lesbian daughter.

    And then there’s the money. GIDS went from 8% of the trusts revenue to 28%. That too may have played a part in inhibiting scrutiny.

    While they did do some good, sadly there are undoubtedly young adults out there who have been permanently damaged by a clinic following bad medicine.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883

    Just when the Muslim Council of the UK fades into obscurity we get the Scottish Association of Mosques, FB followers 5, Twitter followers 17.


    All so-called community leaders are self-appointed to one extent or another, so it's something of a surprise that this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's basically just an extension of the election campaign tactic used by the Tories on social media in recent years to create astroturf groups for the purpose of deceptive campaigning.
    Depressing that the supposedly sceptical, whip smart press falls for it though.
    On the basis that it is more efficient to report news that you have invented, than to actually have to go out and find the stuff, I would have thought it would be a logical development for the newspapers to invent these group themselves, were it not for the fact that there are so many people willing to do most of the work for them by writing press releases that can be easily adapted into newspaper copy.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    Off topic, I’m not sure this NI deal will do anything for Sunak. It’s repeatedly badged as a “Brexit” deal, which only hammers home what a pain in the arse the Tories’ signature policy this Parliament is.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    Does anyone even read the Mail in Scotland?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,486
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    Forbes is more rightwing than Sunak so obviously the Mail has some sympathy with her despise her pro independence views
    Is she more right-wing on other subjects apart from marriage?
    Yes, abortion and tax cuts
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,203
    Against some pretty strong opposition, this is the most batshit thing to ever appear in a local newspaper. A man complaining that someone in Aldi asked to search his bag of allotment waste.

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/aldi-shoppers-anger-after-staff-request-bag-search-again-282485/
  • Options
    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    I agree. She’s certainly more competent than Yousaf (a low bar - ed.) and is more of a known quantity than Regan (who she? -ed.)

    I’d ignore random wittering about how “right wing” she is - we simply don’t know, While she has expressed views on social issues I’ve yet to see evidence that she’d bring that to the table of public policy - she’s welcome to try, but I don’t think she will.

    I suspect longer term she represents the greater threat to the Union as her focus appears to be governing competently on issues that matter - not CV polishing like her predecessor.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,267
    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    What's the Camilla story about? Are they now fully trying to elevate her and pretend all the awful adultery never happened?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    DougSeal said:

    Does anyone even read the Mail in Scotland?

    They claim a readership over 100,000 - apparently the Irish edition even has a circulation over 25,000.
  • Options
    WillG said:

    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    What's the Camilla story about? Are they now fully trying to elevate her and pretend all the awful adultery never happened?
    https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/camilla-queen-consort-coronation-king-charles-royal/
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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,233
    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    I had a look at the mail's website the other day to see what they were making of it. The main thing seemed to be the one photo of Forbes they'd found from an angle that made her boobs look huge.

    So I'm guessing... that means they are pro-Kate? Maybe?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633
    Is Forbes topping the poll because a section of the electorate would like her to top their pole?

    Goodnight!
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,716
    ping said:

    Foxy said:

    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    For sure. I don't want to make a big thing out of it, because it probably isn't a massive factor, but it is certainly there in the mix, all tangled up with various other resentments around money and class.
    I'm not so sure. Sunak is the best-polling Tory politician in the country. If he was losing support due to racism I would have thought that there would be a white Tory who polled better than him.
    No he's just objectively the best they have. I am sure he'd be polling better if he were white. Not much better, but a bit.
    To the extent that racism exists in this country, it will be more about prejudice over cultural traits. I don't see conservative votes applying it to a conservative PM.
    I am sure that the vast majority of Tory voters agree. I am also sure that it won't be 100%.

    And of course there will be some who choose to vote Tory for the same reason.

    How it nets out, and under FPTP where it affects are factors that punters may want to consider.
    If Sunak's race is having an impact on his polling, it seems far likelier to me that it would be in his favour, with some people not wishing to seem too condemnatory toward our first Asian PM.
    If he does fight the next GE, it’ll be interesting to see the differential swing in certain constituencies. I think the tories will notably outperform in wealthier Asian areas, like Solihull.

    He’ll get crucified in the red wall which will get interpreted as racism, but is really down to the unconservative and illiberal Boris 2019 big state platform reverting to a cameronite liberal/austerity agenda.

    Sunak’s performance in red wall constituencies should really be benchmarked against 2010/15.

    I know there’s current red wall polling vs 2019 (mrp?) but has any polling company done the figures on current vs. 2010/15?
    I don't think I see him making the election.
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    Dura_Ace said:

    In other news, and while buildings are lit up in Ukranian colours all over the West, Russia appears to be mounting a serious assault on Bakhmut tonight according to Twitter.

    Situation is looking bad for the Ukrainians in Bakhmut now.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    According to Sources on the Ground near Bakhmut it is reported that Russian/Wagner Forces have broken through Ukrainian Defensive Lines to the Northwest of Bakhmut and have advanced to the Settlement of Bohdanivka.


    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1629607442182033411

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    Bakhmut is effectively Operationally Encircled.
    UA Map have stopped updating which is generally what happens when matters develop not necessarily to Ukraine's best advantage. eg Soledar.



    They really should change that explosion icon from a mushroom cloud to something less alarming. PMC Wagner must be fighting with pointy sticks at this point because Shoigu/Gerasimov are desperate for Prigozhin not to get a politically spectacular win so they have turned off the ammo tap.
    Bakhmut strategically is not that important any more. It's only a disaster for the Ukrainians if they let their forces be trapped there and lose large amount of men. They may do so given its symbolism but, so far, Ukraine doesn't seem to make pointless stands for the sake of it.

    One slight surprise is that the Ukrainians have not gone full in on HIMARS support for the garrison.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,486
    WillG said:

    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    What's the Camilla story about? Are they now fully trying to elevate her and pretend all the awful adultery never happened?
    It is just the standard form for the King's wife in terms of title.

    However it remains Diana's son and grandson next in line to the throne, not Camilla's
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,228
    "Robin Ashenden
    What happened to the Russia I loved?" (£)

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-happened-to-the-russia-i-loved/
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,605
    edited February 2023
    Andrew Neil saying everything I've been saying on here for months (except he does't actually have the guts to name Kemi as the future for the Tories) I need to start charging Mike commission for my brilliant commentary lol! 😂

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11790831/ANDREW-NEIL-youre-expecting-Labour-landslide-missed-Keir-Starmers-word-salad.html

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,605
    WillG said:

    ping said:

    Well, the Mail on Sunday seem smitten:


    Forgive me for not keeping up with the Scottish media scene - is the Scottish Mail/MoS editorial line still as staunchly pro-Union as I assume it is/was?

    Forbes must pose quite the dilemma for them, if so.
    What's the Camilla story about? Are they now fully trying to elevate her and pretend all the awful adultery never happened?
    The sooner these two wretched adulterers are off the Throne and William and Catherine ascend the better...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That’s a big blow for Change U.K.
    Except they wound up in the wake of the 2019 election.
    Bloody hell, Sunil, even HYFUD saw what I was trying to do there. But I guess it’s not funny if you have to explain it.
    Except Luciana left Change UK months BEFORE the election - way back in April 2019!
    Do you know what irony is?
    They use it to make steely, right?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    We need to discuss Scottish racism, lay Yousaf.

    Panelbase also found that candidates’ religious views may have little impact on voter sentiment. Electing an SNP leader who is a practising Christian would make 12 per cent of voters more likely to vote SNP and 10 per cent less likely, while the vast majority (70 per cent) said it would make no difference.

    Similarly, electing a Muslim as SNP leader would make 5 per cent more likely and 14 per cent less likely to vote SNP

    I think we cannot ignore that a section of the population are quite racist. I think it part of why Sunak polls badly.
    Not voting for someone because they're Muslim isn't racist, it's Islamophobic.

    I genuinely think very few people are arsed if someone is a different skin colour. Rather more are arsed if they are culturally different.

    There was a psychology book a few years back, 'Thinking, fast and slow' or some such. What I'm talking about here is the 'fast' thinking - the instinctive reaction to people before the rational part of the brain ticks in and corrects it. My view is that the 'fast' part of almost everyone in the country's brains is entirely comfortable with different skin colours, but possibly balks slightly at visible cultural differences.
    So I'm not just splitting hairs here.
    We make short cuts all the time: if you see someone on the street and they look like you, in manner of clothes age or skin color, you will be unlikely to think of them as a threat. By contrast, if they look very different - then your defenses will be up.

    It's why, of course, the greatest conmen have looked exactly like their victims.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,999
    Another Brexit thread. Oh frabjous day.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    edited February 2023
    [deleted - brain fart]

    Just when the Muslim Council of the UK fades into obscurity we get the Scottish Association of Mosques, FB followers 5, Twitter followers 17.


    All so-called community leaders are self-appointed to one extent or another, so it's something of a surprise that this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's basically just an extension of the election campaign tactic used by the Tories on social media in recent years to create astroturf groups for the purpose of deceptive campaigning.
    As notably in indyref 1.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    DougSeal said:

    Does anyone even read the Mail in Scotland?

    A few snowflake southerners and some crusty old Tory coffin dodgers.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    Is Forbes topping the poll because a section of the electorate would like her to top their pole?

    Goodnight!

    Pretty dire , a pervy would be ashamed of that
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    malcolmg said:

    Is Forbes topping the poll because a section of the electorate would like her to top their pole?

    Goodnight!

    Pretty dire , a pervy would be ashamed of that
    Ash is prettier in any case ;)
This discussion has been closed.