This could well be the 50p feeding through. Or an outlier. One of the two.
Agh.
It's neither. The polls are static. Utterly static.
The Tories are low-mid 30s, Labour are mid-high 30s, with bouncy noise on individual polls. It's been like that for millions of billions of years, since the Big Bang.
I agree with that. The two voting blocs do look quite rigid. The key group are the 2010 LD switchers.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
You defended the authoritarianism just the other day by saying "whether or not its right its not out of touch". Although your touchiness in demanding an apology over the slightest of sleights is telling.
Accusing UKIP of being anti-immigration whilst supporting a party that refused for so long to even consider giving desperately needed asylum to Syrian refugees. Dragged kicking and screaming to a position that was proposed by Farage more than a month ago. Sad indeed to see how nbackward and insular the Tory party has become.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
For heaven's sake, have you actually read the stuff your party is presenting as its primary message? Go on, go to the link I gave, and read what UKIP says it stands for. You'll be shocked, or you will if you are honest with yourself. It has changed hugely in the last few months, and is increasingly becoming an anti-immigration rant.
Or go to UKIP's home page; top item, 'Common sense on immigration'.
Of course, that is probably astute enough politically. (They've followed Lynton Crosby's advice and have stripped away the barnacles). But it's not your vision.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Your party wants to stop educated Chinese coming here to spend their money in our further education system, all because they are desperate to be seen to be doing 'something' about immigration when they have no real concept of the issues at all. That is why they will defend free movement within the EU at all costs whilst refusing entry to those who at one end of the spectrum can greatly benefit our country or those at the other end who are in desperate need of our help.
Doesn't it make you ashamed to be a Tory? If not it should. Callous, self serving, incoherent incompetence is no basis for sound government.
Oakeshott at odds with Alexander clearly supporting Labour's 50% while Alexander opposes it and wants to stick wit 45%. LDs now effectively 2 parties, one social democratic with Labour the other traditonal Liberal and with the Tories
Indeed. Well spotted. There are hardly any of the second group, it's just that the Orange Book have the current power. Presumably they will be swept away by the social democratic wing if the Coalition loses power.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
From the pub...
I don't disagree that immigration can cause problems.
My belief is that the problems are irrelevant.
I believe that states should not have the right to prevent the free movement of people.
Is not an irrelevant problem a contradiction in terms?
Accusing UKIP of being anti-immigration whilst supporting a party that refused for so long to even consider giving desperately needed asylum to Syrian refugees. Dragged kicking and screaming to a position that was proposed by Farage more than a month ago. Sad indeed to see how nbackward and insular the Tory party has become.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
For heaven's sake, have you actually read the stuff your party is presenting as its primary message? Go on, go to the link I gave, and read what UKIP says it stands for. You'll be shocked, or you will if you are honest with yourself. It has changed hugely in the last few months, and is increasingly becoming an anti-immigration rant.
Or go to UKIP's home page; top item, 'Common sense on immigration'.
Of course, that is probably astute enough politically. (They've followed Lynton Crosby's advice and have stripped away the barnacles). But it's not your vision.
Erm, I am sure I am about to be vilified by Hugh as the love child of Adolf Hitler and Attila the Hun, but what exactly is wrong with 'Common sense on immigration'?
You defended the authoritarianism just the other day by saying "whether or not its right its not out of touch". Although your touchiness in demanding an apology over the slightest of sleights is telling.
Don't be daft, I didn't defend anything. I merely point out that you were wrong to say politicians were out of touch with public opinion on this, because, as I proved, the public are not particularly concerned about it. Now, maybe you are so stupid that you cannot understand the distinction between 'defending authoritarism' and pointing out that surveillance is not a particularly salient issue for voters, but if so I'd be grateful if you desisted from attributing to me views I don't hold and statements which I haven't made. I, after all, unlike you, have the courage to post under my real name.
I really do hope that there are a few Conservative/UKIP switchers watching BBC QuestionTime tonight...... I have a feeling their Labour/Libdem bingo card is just an immigration question short of screaming HOUSE!
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
I will confess to a real chuckle when I saw this one. Not because it heralds anything new, but because it demonstrates nothing new! Labour are 38/39, Tories are 32 +/-3% MOE. The pants-shitting excitement of the ComRes poll and the two YouGovs proved the centre of the MOE spreads as we've had Labour up north of 40 and the Tories low 30s recently.
Can we now please accept a few basics. Most punters don't follow shenanigans in the Commons, or PMQs or politician A saying B. They don't care as they hate one side or the other as Satan incarnate or both sides equally. A lot decided who to vote for (or if we are honest vote against) a while back and have seen nothing to change that decision.
Either the Tories are going to improve their vote score against the normal run of governments in office or Labour will improve their vote score against the normal run of oppositions or the fruitcake party will win or the quisling yellow pox will make history by being kingmaker again. However you cut it the result will be unusual according to the history books because the history books have gone on holiday.
Accusing UKIP of being anti-immigration whilst supporting a party that refused for so long to even consider giving desperately needed asylum to Syrian refugees. Dragged kicking and screaming to a position that was proposed by Farage more than a month ago. Sad indeed to see how nbackward and insular the Tory party has become.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
For heaven's sake, have you actually read the stuff your party is presenting as its primary message? Go on, go to the link I gave, and read what UKIP says it stands for. You'll be shocked, or you will if you are honest with yourself. It has changed hugely in the last few months, and is increasingly becoming an anti-immigration rant.
Or go to UKIP's home page; top item, 'Common sense on immigration'.
Of course, that is probably astute enough politically. (They've followed Lynton Crosby's advice and have stripped away the barnacles). But it's not your vision.
Erm, I am sure I am about to be vilified by Hugh as the love child of Adolf Hitler and Attila the Hun, but what exactly is wrong with 'Common sense on immigration'?
That it's not "common sense" from UKIP, it's stark, staring, howling at the moon, mumbling at your own piss in the gutter after the pub mental?
Really? Please explain to me why it is so, I am obviously missing something.
Lest anyone be in any doubt just how shambolic today was here's a very telling comment from a lib dem blog.
"My understanding this morning was that the LDs had agreed to the home secretary’s power to remove citizenship only to see off the unacceptable rebel amendments. But the Government has just announced it won’t oppose the Raab amendment"
So that would mean Cammie was so terrified of his backbenches he begged Clegg to accept all the concessions to the tory rebels (which unbelievably Clegg agrees to) then when it becomes clear the tory rebels have told Cammie where to stick his concessions he caves in anyway and leaves Clegg to vote it out and holding the bag as angry lib dems realise just what he's signed them all up for.
I really do hope that there are a few Conservative/UKIP switchers watching BBC QuestionTime tonight...... I have a feeling their Labour/Libdem bingo card is just an immigration question short of screaming HOUSE!
England HEIs China 24225 31085 37440 44255 46400 5% India 18480 18195 18535 13250 10235 -23% United States 6685 7230 7575 7925 7870 -1% Nigeria 6650 8030 8050 8170 7855 -4% Malaysia 5575 6505 6470 6765 6890 2% Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China) 3680 3975 4220 4760 5710 20% Thailand 2490 3000 3380 3545 3420 -4% Saudi Arabia 2730 4665 5185 3555 3265 -8% Pakistan 4435 4225 4580 3390 2825 -17% Singapore 1295 1680 1925 2185 2420 11% All other 43710 46245 46120 45205 45265 0% Total England HEIs 119960 134825 143480 143010 142150 -1%
Except you are wrong, Of all the regions in the world that send students to the UK the biggest increases since the coalition are those from China and Hong Kong.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Your party wants to stop educated Chinese coming here to spend their money in our further education system, all because they are desperate to be seen to be doing 'something' about immigration when they have no real concept of the issues at all. That is why they will defend free movement within the EU at all costs whilst refusing entry to those who at one end of the spectrum can greatly benefit our country or those at the other end who are in desperate need of our help.
Doesn't it make you ashamed to be a Tory? If not it should. Callous, self serving, incoherent incompetence is no basis for sound government.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
Maybe it just shows how unbelievably thick righties are.
I really do hope that there are a few Conservative/UKIP switchers watching BBC QuestionTime tonight...... I have a feeling their Labour/Libdem bingo card is just an immigration question short of screaming HOUSE!
*tears of laughter etc.*
The Cameroons do sound very tired and emotional tonight for obvious reasons.
You defended the authoritarianism just the other day by saying "whether or not its right its not out of touch". Although your touchiness in demanding an apology over the slightest of sleights is telling.
Don't be daft, I didn't defend anything. I merely point out that you were wrong to say politicians were out of touch with public opinion on this, because, as I proved, the public are not particularly concerned about it. Now, maybe you are so stupid that you cannot understand the distinction between 'defending authoritarism' and pointing out that surveillance is not a particularly salient issue for voters, but if so I'd be grateful if you desisted from attributing to me views I don't hold and statements which I haven't made. I, after all, unlike you, have the courage to post under my real name.
You actually started the post with something like "whether or not it's right". There's really no need to get so aggressive, although feel free to be self-righteous about your bravery if it makes you feel good. I'm bowled over by your courage.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
Maybe it just shows how unbelievably thick righties are.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
A lefty so thick he fails to realise that I have never, not once, claimed that QT, the BBC or any other public service organisation was dominated by the left. Never. I leave that to the Tories or who see conspiracies everywhere. I just scorn the left. I don't even believe they are bright enough to dominate anything so effectively.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Lest anyone be in any doubt just how shambolic today was here's a very telling comment from a lib dem blog.
"My understanding this morning was that the LDs had agreed to the home secretary’s power to remove citizenship only to see off the unacceptable rebel amendments. But the Government has just announced it won’t oppose the Raab amendment"
So that would mean Cammie was so terrified of his backbenches he begged Clegg to accept all the concessions to the tory rebels (which unbelievably Clegg agrees to) then when it becomes clear the tory rebels have told Cammie where to stick his concessions he caves in anyway and leaves Clegg to vote it out and holding the bag as angry lib dems realise just what he's signed them all up for.
Incredible.
Shambles doesn't even begin to cover it.
Seriously, did anyone in government know what/if/if not they were voting for today. It seems like they were changing their minds every few minutes. The funny thing bout that article was the Lib Dem saying "Of course, if the Labour Party were actually thinking like a responsible political party, they’d vote against the amendments rather than play political games and abstain," when in reality their own leader was doing the hokey cokey with his parties decision.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
A lefty so thick he fails to realise that I have never, not once, claimed that QT, the BBC or any other public service organisation was dominated by the left. Never. I leave that to the Tories or who see conspiracies everywhere. I just scorn the left. I don't even believe they are bright enough to dominate anything so effectively.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Was this the first poll where all the fieldwork was done after the 50p tax rate was announced? I know that other polls of the shitinabagandpunchit variety came out after 50p but with sampling beforehand thus not proving hate of Balls as suggested.
Totally off topic I thought the NHS was going to collapse this winter under the unbelievably thick health secretary we have and this abhorent coalition government. Any ideas why this has not happened ?
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Is it? At the risk of doing what I've just accused Socrates of doing (!), I wouldn't have attributed to you the sentiment "These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis, our politicians are doing nothing in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us. Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and our vital NHS and state school places are straining under a tide of immigration. " which are the opening words of how UKIP describes what it stands for.
But if that is your vision then of course that is fair enough.
England HEIs China 24225 31085 37440 44255 46400 5% India 18480 18195 18535 13250 10235 -23% United States 6685 7230 7575 7925 7870 -1% Nigeria 6650 8030 8050 8170 7855 -4% Malaysia 5575 6505 6470 6765 6890 2% Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China) 3680 3975 4220 4760 5710 20% Thailand 2490 3000 3380 3545 3420 -4% Saudi Arabia 2730 4665 5185 3555 3265 -8% Pakistan 4435 4225 4580 3390 2825 -17% Singapore 1295 1680 1925 2185 2420 11% All other 43710 46245 46120 45205 45265 0% Total England HEIs 119960 134825 143480 143010 142150 -1%
Except you are wrong, Of all the regions in the world that send students to the UK the biggest increases since the coalition are those from China and Hong Kong.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Your party wants to stop educated Chinese coming here to spend their money in our further education system, all because they are desperate to be seen to be doing 'something' about immigration when they have no real concept of the issues at all. That is why they will defend free movement within the EU at all costs whilst refusing entry to those who at one end of the spectrum can greatly benefit our country or those at the other end who are in desperate need of our help.
Doesn't it make you ashamed to be a Tory? If not it should. Callous, self serving, incoherent incompetence is no basis for sound government.
Except of course I am not wrong. The Tories really did try to limit the number of students coming to the UK from China and India as a means of limiting immigration. The fact they were utterly incompetent at it is just a rather amusing aside.
Totally off topic I thought the NHS was going to collapse this winter under the unbelievably thick health secretary we have and this abhorent coalition government. Any ideas why this has not happened ?
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
A lefty so thick he fails to realise that I have never, not once, claimed that QT, the BBC or any other public service organisation was dominated by the left. Never. I leave that to the Tories or who see conspiracies everywhere. I just scorn the left. I don't even believe they are bright enough to dominate anything so effectively.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Is it? At the risk of doing what I've just accused Socrates of doing (!), I wouldn't have attributed to you the sentiment "These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis, our politicians are doing nothing in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us. Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and our vital NHS and state school places are straining under a tide of immigration. " which are the opening words of how UKIP describes what it stands for.
But if that is your vision then of course that is fair enough.
The language they use is rather more flowery than mine but then they are trying to make a point.
But given that I think mass migration is ultimately bad for the country and that part of that is because of the unacceptable strain it puts on our services, it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to try and claim the basic point is not one I agree with.
What they were trying to do was to reduce the numbers who use the student visa system to bypass the visa rules. Chinese students (and Hong Kong and Singapore) students are much less likely to use it as a channel to bring in spouses and families, and much more likely to return to their home countries. Coalition policy has been a success at this.
UKIP should copy the policy as part of its immigration policy, and probably will!
Except you are wrong, Of all the regions in the world that send students to the UK the biggest increases since the coalition are those from China and Hong Kong.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Your party wants to stop educated Chinese coming here to spend their money in our further education system, all because they are desperate to be seen to be doing 'something' about immigration when they have no real concept of the issues at all. That is why they will defend free movement within the EU at all costs whilst refusing entry to those who at one end of the spectrum can greatly benefit our country or those at the other end who are in desperate need of our help.
Doesn't it make you ashamed to be a Tory? If not it should. Callous, self serving, incoherent incompetence is no basis for sound government.
Except of course I am not wrong. The Tories really did try to limit the number of students coming to the UK from China and India as a means of limiting immigration. The fact they were utterly incompetent at it is just a rather amusing aside.
I thought the NHS crisis was being caused by Seniors misplacing their Tramadol prescriptions and going to hospital A&E departments rather than GP surgeries to get replacements.
Totally off topic I thought the NHS was going to collapse this winter under the unbelievably thick health secretary we have and this abhorent coalition government. Any ideas why this has not happened ?
Wowzers the feminist on QT is Cressida off The Modern Parents in Viz!!!
Tories have had a horror day, and down in the poll. And they're laying in to you Kippers in anger at it, and you kippers don't like the Big Guns turned on you.
Basically, it's a night for lefties to sit back and open the popcorn, so on that note!
It's just like the other night when Labour were down 4, Ukip were up 4, and you got your passive aggresive knickers in a twist about the phrase white working class!
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
A lefty so thick he fails to realise that I have never, not once, claimed that QT, the BBC or any other public service organisation was dominated by the left. Never. I leave that to the Tories or who see conspiracies everywhere. I just scorn the left. I don't even believe they are bright enough to dominate anything so effectively.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Come on Richard, don't be so grumpy!
I am not grumpy SO. Once in a while it is fun to get down and dirty and give someone a good verbal kicking, although to be honest I could have wished for a bit better opponent.
I am probably a bit demob happy. Three weeks away from home ends tomorrow. This has been one of the toughest winters in memory for offshore work with a lot of installations evacuated because the weather was so bad they could not resupply with food and water plus a couple because there has been a genuine fear they might not survive the storms. I am very glad to be getting a couple of weeks away from it.
Wowzers the feminist on QT is Cressida off The Modern Parents in Viz!!!
Tories have had a horror day, and down in the poll. And they're laying in to you Kippers in anger at it, and you kippers don't like the Big Guns turned on you.
Basically, it's a night for lefties to sit back and open the popcorn, so on that note!
It's just like the other night when Labour were down 4, Ukip were up 4, and you got your passive aggresive knickers in a twist about the phrase white working class!
You shouldn't expect to be able to peddle your nasty far-right UKIP (at best) bullsh!t without being challenged, Sam, no matter how polite.
Actually its very much my vision. It is by no means the be all and end all for me but then neither is it for UKIP.
Is it? At the risk of doing what I've just accused Socrates of doing (!), I wouldn't have attributed to you the sentiment "These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis, our politicians are doing nothing in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us. Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and our vital NHS and state school places are straining under a tide of immigration. " which are the opening words of how UKIP describes what it stands for.
But if that is your vision then of course that is fair enough.
I pretty much agree with most of that, most of it is indisputable.
The Conservatives are going to improve their score. The complacency of the Labour party on the back of their polling leads midterm has led them to the arrogant assumption that they are completely Teflon coated and nailed on to win the next GE no matter what their manifesto contains. Its almost as if the Labour party genuinely believe that they can now rewrite the history of their 70's economic policies to fit the modern age and a global economy. And they will try to peddle that this time around its different and it will prove far more electorally successful. And all because its in the bag as the Conservatives are just so toxic after clearing up Labour's last mess by creating economic stability and a strong recovery.
I caught the BBC 10 O'clock news tonight, and while Nick Robinson whittered on about a Tory splits and Cameron caving in etc, but the politics of both Labour and the Libdems successfully combining to vote to defeat the Raab amendment looked terrible as a result. While Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg now fight over those Lab/Libdem switchers, and with Ed MIliband desperately hoping that they will deliver his 35% strategy while Clegg tries to avoid a complete humiliating GE defeat.
On the other hand, the Conservatives right now must be having a 'Carlsberg' moment when it comes to their dream strategy for bringing back former Con/UKIP switchers back into the fold. And no matter how much the Labour party might wish or claim that Cameron has lost control of his party. It would appear that quite the opposite is happening this week, just look at the way that its now those backbench rebels who are now fracturing and shrinking. As always happens when the Labour party over play their hand, it has a way of uniting the Conservatives. Ask Gordon Brown about that 2007 GE that never was.
I will confess to a real chuckle when I saw this one. Not because it heralds anything new, but because it demonstrates nothing new! Labour are 38/39, Tories are 32 +/-3% MOE. The pants-shitting excitement of the ComRes poll and the two YouGovs proved the centre of the MOE spreads as we've had Labour up north of 40 and the Tories low 30s recently.
Can we now please accept a few basics. Most punters don't follow shenanigans in the Commons, or PMQs or politician A saying B. They don't care as they hate one side or the other as Satan incarnate or both sides equally. A lot decided who to vote for (or if we are honest vote against) a while back and have seen nothing to change that decision.
Either the Tories are going to improve their vote score against the normal run of governments in office or Labour will improve their vote score against the normal run of oppositions or the fruitcake party will win or the quisling yellow pox will make history by being kingmaker again. However you cut it the result will be unusual according to the history books because the history books have gone on holiday.
Wowzers the feminist on QT is Cressida off The Modern Parents in Viz!!!
Tories have had a horror day, and down in the poll. And they're laying in to you Kippers in anger at it, and you kippers don't like the Big Guns turned on you.
Basically, it's a night for lefties to sit back and open the popcorn, so on that note!
It's just like the other night when Labour were down 4, Ukip were up 4, and you got your passive aggresive knickers in a twist about the phrase white working class!
You shouldn't expect to be able to peddle your nasty far-right UKIP (at best) bullsh!t without being challenged, Sam, no matter how polite.
I'm sorry if that upsets you.
No offence taken, it wasn't me that said it
LOL. Hugh really isn't very good at this is he. :-)
Twitter Sun Politics @Sun_Politics 1h EXCL: Ed-ache for Labour as Alan Johnson reveals 'tensions' between Miliband and Balls over flagship tax policy: http://bit.ly/1bbfEMf
I pretty much agree with most of that, most of it is indisputable.
I'm sure lots of people agree with it, in part at least. Even Labour belatedly got round to admitting that immigration had been too high under their watch.
David Cameron beats Tory Immigration Bill rebellion – with the help of the Opposition
David Cameron has beat an embarrassing retreat in the face of a rebellion by more than 80 Tory MPs who voted against the Government on its Immigration Bill.
The Prime Minister’s authority was challenged by his own backbenchers as they demanded a tougher line on deporting foreign criminals from Britain.
Amid farcical scenes in the Commons, Mr Cameron had to rely on the votes of Labour MPs and his Liberal Democrat Coalition partners to defeat a revolt by 87 Tories, who voted to give ministers rather than judges the final decision on whether deportation would breach the human rights of foreign criminals.
The rebels, who included many of Mr Cameron’s fiercest Tory critics, pressed ahead despite warnings that their move would divert attention from a series of official statistics showing the economy is recovering.
Wowzers the feminist on QT is Cressida off The Modern Parents in Viz!!!
Tories have had a horror day, and down in the poll. And they're laying in to you Kippers in anger at it, and you kippers don't like the Big Guns turned on you.
Basically, it's a night for lefties to sit back and open the popcorn, so on that note!
It's just like the other night when Labour were down 4, Ukip were up 4, and you got your passive aggresive knickers in a twist about the phrase white working class!
You shouldn't expect to be able to peddle your nasty far-right UKIP (at best) bullsh!t without being challenged, Sam, no matter how polite.
I'm sorry if that upsets you.
No offence taken, it wasn't me that said it
LOL. Hugh really isn't very good at this is he. :-)
How does highlighting your inadequacy contradict what I have said? I want you to know how little regard I have for you and how much I enjoy pointing out your failings. Scorn is only worth conveying if your target is aware of it.
As for monocles. Not really my style. Though I might enjoy regarding you with disdain over the top of a pair of pince-nez.
It's hilarious that Richard Nabavi has a go at UKIP for making arguments that will be politically advantageous, when he defends David Cameron's authoritarian spying as "well it's popular, even if it's not right".
Now please, don't write such garbage. I never said anything remotely like that, and I look forward to your (anonymous) apology for lying about my (non-anonymous) views.
God I feel sorry for you, as a sane Tory, for having to deal with these far right headcases.
At least us centre lefties don't have to worry about them too much electorally, they must bug the heck out of you.
The difference is Hugh that all lefties whether centre or hard left are basically headcases. A sane lefty is an oxymoron.
And yet, lefties are everywhere!
We've taken over the entire Establishment, we choose Question Time audiences, we control immigration policy. We can't be that insane, eh.
A lefty so thick he fails to realise that I have never, not once, claimed that QT, the BBC or any other public service organisation was dominated by the left. Never. I leave that to the Tories or who see conspiracies everywhere. I just scorn the left. I don't even believe they are bright enough to dominate anything so effectively.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Come on Richard, don't be so grumpy!
I am not grumpy SO. Once in a while it is fun to get down and dirty and give someone a good verbal kicking, although to be honest I could have wished for a bit better opponent.
I am probably a bit demob happy. Three weeks away from home ends tomorrow. This has been one of the toughest winters in memory for offshore work with a lot of installations evacuated because the weather was so bad they could not resupply with food and water plus a couple because there has been a genuine fear they might not survive the storms. I am very glad to be getting a couple of weeks away from it.
Good on you - enjoy it. And if you're coming back to England, bring a raincoat and hat. We're having a bit of rain.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
From the pub...
I don't disagree that immigration can cause problems.
My belief is that the problems are irrelevant.
I believe that states should not have the right to prevent the free movement of people.
I will excuse your asinine comments on account of your probably being drunk.
Good on you - enjoy it. And if you're coming back to England, bring a raincoat and hat. We're having a bit of rain.
The North Sea has been pretty much the same as England if a touch more windy. I am happy to admit to being one of those strange fellows who loves the winter in all its fury. The more 'foul' weather the better as far as I am concerned. Knowing my luck it will turn out fine when I get home :-)
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
From the pub...
I don't disagree that immigration can cause problems.
My belief is that the problems are irrelevant.
I believe that states should not have the right to prevent the free movement of people.
I will excuse your asinine comments on account of your probably being drunk.
Hugh Starkey Left wing? He was a staunch supporter of George W Bush and the Iraq War, he is pro tax and spending cuts, pro grammar school and sceptical of mass immigration and climate change, despite being gay he even opposes gay marriage!
I used to go to Broadstairs every now and again. Down near the harbour there was a pub called the Tartar Frigate. Great name, very atmospheric. I wonder if it's still going. If so, I'd love an afternoon in there; a fire blazing, with a howling storm outside - low clouds over a raging sea - perfect pints, a gentle flow of conversation. I need a drink. Haven't had one for eight days now.
And Andrew Neil on This Week nails the politics of the assumption that the rest of the UK will vote to go along with a Currency Union with a foreign country if Scotland votes Yes to Independence. Far too many people in all areas of the UK have simple not thought this through yet, but they will do and then vote accordingly and it will be an acrimonious mess. The SNP are so punch drunk on their Scotland only 'Independence Referendum' that they are in danger of making far too many promises that they simple will not be able to deliver on. They are behaving as if no one else can possible come along later during dissolution settlement to throw a spanner in the works of their current claims.
Good on you - enjoy it. And if you're wcoming back to England, bring a raincoat and hat. We're having a bit of rain.
The North Sea has been pretty much the same as England if a touch more windy. I am happy to admit to being one of those strange fellows who loves the winter in all its fury. The more 'foul' weather the better as far as I am concerned. Knowing my luck it will turn out fine when I get home :-)
I'm with you. A cold, wet, windy, snowy winter is what I hope for each year. I'm missing the snow. We've had a fair amount over recent times, but this winter it looks like we'll go without. Great rain though. The rivers will flow full in the summer; the grass will be squeaky green.
Immigration is a huge problem for the UK on many levels. In spite of what Robert S believes. At least UKIP has a vision for dealing with the issue and managing immigration at reasonable levels which genuinely benefit the country rather than lurching from one extreme to another and from one stupid, unworkable, headline grabbing idea to another. Cameron has so far managed to annoy both the Indians and the Chinese with his idiotic knee jerk immigration plans. Who is he lining up next to upset I wonder?
From the pub...
I don't disagree that immigration can cause problems.
My belief is that the problems are irrelevant.
I believe that states should not have the right to prevent the free movement of people.
I will excuse your asinine comments on account of your probably being drunk.
rcs is what is called in the trade, a Libertarian. A "Libertarian" who believes in immigration control is merely a right winger. A Libertarian believes in the freedom of movement of capital and labour. After all, labour is also an economic input , just like capital.
I used to go to Broadstairs every now and again. Down near the harbour there was a pub called the Tartar Frigate. Great name, very atmospheric. I wonder if it's still going. If so, I'd love an afternoon in there; a fire blazing, with a howling storm outside - low clouds over a raging sea - perfect pints, a gentle flow of conversation. I need a drink. Haven't had one for eight days now.
I know the Tartar Frigate, SO.
If you traverse the beach (Stone Bay) beyond the harbour where the Tartar Frigate is located and climb the steps up from the bay then you (almost) arrive at the prep school where I spent five years boarding in the late 1960s.
Not that I spent much time in the Tartar Frigate then, but I did eat there during a visit to Broadstairs about a decade ago.
It had a reputation for good beer, good music, good fish and a good smoke (not tobacco). All confirmed during my visit.
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
David Cameron is now in Commons tearoom,trying desperately to ingratiate himself with Tory backbenchers after Immigration Bill vote shambles
I'm sure they'll forgive him and promise to behave next time. What could possibly go wrong?
Was the class of '92 more trouble to Major than this lot is to Cam ?
Fair point. The rebellions are usually bigger and seem to be even more frequent under Cast Iron Cammie. Nor are they limited to Europe. Major also called out the "bast**ds" when they made his life a misery whereas Cammie tries pathetically to ingratiate himself with them in the commons tearoom straight after they have just humiliated him yet again.
Of course if you live on planet Cameroon and not the real world this is all somehow a 'triumph' for Cammie and somehow won't encourage the rebels to keep up the pressure. Even more hilariously we're supposed to believe this self-evident shambles is going to have the kippers quaking in their boots instead of Farage chuckling away and rubbing his hands in glee at the obvious chaos and fear he is provoking in Cammie and the tory party.
UKIP in Wythenshawe and Sale East clearly running against immigration, immigration, return of world-beating heavy industry (how?), immigration, "failed European economies". Maybe it is not racist, but to deny that it is xenophobic requires extremes of charity, spin and bien-pensantery not normally associated with UKIP.
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
As for liking caning, I believe it is only JackW and Sir Roderick's internet dates who have confessed to liking it on PB.
The point is, Surby, that a traditionally Labour leaning ward in a Midlands town should be going Labour in a council election at this stage of the parliamentary term. This especially applies when the Lib Dems are facing headwinds and the Kippers being driven by tailwinds.
The only objective conclusion that any intelligent observer can reach is that Cap'n Miliband has steered the good ship Labour into electoral doldrums.
UKIP in Wythenshawe and Sale East clearly running against immigration, immigration, return of world-beating heavy industry (how?), immigration, "failed European economies". Maybe it is not racist, but to deny that it is xenophobic requires extremes of charity, spin and bien-pensantery not normally associated with UKIP.
Not forgetting "No tax on minimum wage"
Good of you to concede that something that doesn't mention race, and policies that are the same for everyone regardless of race, maybe isn't racist.
Labour are a 94% chance according to bookies, I guess they'll outline a positive vision rather than a negative campaign
Well done. Mark ! Your guys are holding up well where it matters. I don't think the South West will be a shoo-in for the Tories as the PBHodges assume.
LD was second placed. Interesting, Tories still switched to UKIP in large numbers despite knowing the LD was so close.
Could this be the harbinger of Canada 1993 ? Will we see something extraordinary in May 2014 ?
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
As for liking caning, I believe it is only JackW and Sir Roderick's internet dates who have confessed to liking it on PB.
The point is, Surby, that a traditionally Labour leaning ward in a Midlands town should be going Labour in a council election at this stage of the parliamentary term. This especially applies when the Lib Dems are facing headwinds and the Kippers being driven by tailwinds.
The only objective conclusion that any intelligent observer can reach is that Cap'n Miliband has steered the good ship Labour into electoral doldrums.
No cricketing analogies needed.
Your nautical analogy completely excludes Captain Cameron. How is he faring ?
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
As for liking caning, I believe it is only JackW and Sir Roderick's internet dates who have confessed to liking it on PB.
The point is, Surby, that a traditionally Labour leaning ward in a Midlands town should be going Labour in a council election at this stage of the parliamentary term. This especially applies when the Lib Dems are facing headwinds and the Kippers being driven by tailwinds.
The only objective conclusion that any intelligent observer can reach is that Cap'n Miliband has steered the good ship Labour into electoral doldrums.
No cricketing analogies needed.
Your nautical analogy completely excludes Captain Cameron. How is he faring ?
A bit like Sir Ben Ainslie in the Americas Cup, Surby.
Letting the first few races go before putting in the effort and skill needed to win when it counts.
MickPork Major's 'bastards' reference was to Eurosceptic Cabinet Ministers rather than backbenchers
I know perfectly well it was. Those cabinet ministers quite obviously didn't do what they did in a vacuum though and had the support of plenty of rebel tory MPs when it came to rebellions. Which also isn't to say every current cabinet minister is totally behind Cammie on the subject of Europe even if they are keeping their powder dry for the moment.
Cammie also has the help of an extraordinarily gullible and incompetent Clegg who agreed to big concessions to the rebel tory backbenchers just to save face for Cammie but was then left holding the bag when Cammie caved in to them anyway and abstained.
There is no question that a very vocal and very sizeable number of tory MPs are quite content to keep rebelling against the tory leadership and today's shambles will hardly do anything to stop them . Quite the reverse.
@Richard_Tyndall Must admit that I have often thought of those working off shore in the North Sea over this winter with all these storms and the dangers and disruptions they cause as a result.
Back in the 80's when my late Dad was working out in the North Sea, he and the rest of the crew had just worked Christmas and were looking forward to getting home for New Year, but the weather was against them and caused a huge delay and back log. Eventually on New Year's eve, my dad managed to get a helicopter off the rig and eventually back to Aberdeen. But one big problem, he met a horrendous winter storm which meant that he nearly ended up stranded in Inverness for the night as the A9 the had just been closed due to snow. But this old Scottish soldier was determined to get home to his family for New Year, and he made it with less than an hour to go! And all thanks to the snow plough team tasked with trying to open the road, and a very understanding Highland Police Officer who allowed him through the snow gates so he could follow immediately behind that snow plough all the way home. He impressed the police officer with his well prepared winter emergency kit in the boot of the car too.
When I spoke to someone about it this morning they said they expected the Green administration to lose the vote of confidence to Labour / Tories but they also expected the Green administration to carry on because the opposition had no common ground to come up with an alternative. So I'm not sure this vote means anything but I'm also not sure the Green administration has the votes to get a referendum on the cap-breaching council tax rise through either (can you tell I'm not following this very closely?). I'm intensely relaxed about the implications of all this for the bets I have on Caroline retaining her seat. I think people vote different ways for the Council / Westminster and I'm not sure this is a net negative anyway (and if it is I'm happier to see them go down swinging for the principles rather than managing the mess the Coalition has landed all councils in).
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
As for liking caning, I believe it is only JackW and Sir Roderick's internet dates who have confessed to liking it on PB.
The point is, Surby, that a traditionally Labour leaning ward in a Midlands town should be going Labour in a council election at this stage of the parliamentary term. This especially applies when the Lib Dems are facing headwinds and the Kippers being driven by tailwinds.
The only objective conclusion that any intelligent observer can reach is that Cap'n Miliband has steered the good ship Labour into electoral doldrums.
No cricketing analogies needed.
Your nautical analogy completely excludes Captain Cameron. How is he faring ?
Trying to catch up with a once in a hundred year winter which dumped copious amounts of rain instead of snow across the UK in January. As Ken Clarke pointed out on QuestionTime tonight, everyone wants someone to blame. Well here is a novel idea, why not blame the real culprit, very unseasonal weather! This kind of knee jerk reaction reminds me of London and the south over two/three winters ago when they suddenly got a real blast of what a normal Scottish winter feels like up here after a couple of decades of seasonally mild weather and then tried to blame the authorities for not having the kind of resources Grampian/Highland council have on standby every single winter!
MickPork Agree on that but we shall see, Major, despite the rebels, was also more personally popular with his backbenchers than Cameron is with his
Both sides tend to play up that aspect when it suits them but if it's fundamental differences on policy then it really won't matter how nice Cameron is to the rebels or vice versa. The contempt both sides seem have for each other is also way beyond the point of reconciliation now. Does that animus help? Absolutely not. In the end though it's still a numbers game and the tory whips do seem to have their heads up their arse every time one of these rebellions happen. This rebellion was hardly unexpected. It was delayed from christmas because it was such an obvious a flashpoint and the noises from tory rebels were loud and clear for weeks.
Putting tonight's YouGov figures into electoral calculus gives us a Labour majority of 110. The Tories would be down to 229 seats although that includes 30 gains from the Lib Dems which I think we agree is unlikely. So the Tories would I suspect be down to around 210 MPs.
On a serious note I can't fathom what is going on. This could be a real outlier, but then we've just had a couple of polls with real shrinking leads coming out of nowhere, when populus seemed to be as you were.???????????
MickPork Sir George Young is decent and experienced enough but not really a chief whip, perhaps time to bring back Andrew Mitchell, and with that thought, goodnight!
Putting tonight's YouGov figures into electoral calculus gives us a Labour majority of 110. The Tories would be down to 229 seats although that includes 30 gains from the Lib Dems which I think we agree is unlikely. So the Tories would I suspect be down to around 210 MPs.
On a serious note I can't fathom what is going on. This could be a real outlier, but then we've just had a couple of polls with real shrinking leads coming out of nowhere, when populus seemed to be as you were.???????????
Taking an average of several polls is usually a good idea.
The Labour lead is therefore around 5-6%, as UKPR confirms.
As a Scottish Tory, UKIP for me represents the UK equivalent of the SNP in Scotland so Richard's glowing positive UKIP vision of Britain made me smile cynically. And like any nationalistic party such as the SNP or UKIP, they mimic their aims on far more local scare tactics by pretending that being smaller some how delivers more democracy. But as with the very negative anti English/Westminster stance of the SNP, UKIP on the other hand seeks to enhance their position by taking an equally strong stance that promotes a small island anti EU/European.
And with any nationalistic party like this, they always assume that the grass would be greener, cheaper, and far more democratic if we could just managed to shed the shackles of the imperialistic empire which is the dark side that has somehow done us down while at the same time manages to allow us to move more freely. So like the SNP, I really don't get the idea of how UKIP have a positive vision of Britain, especially when you in particular have been a long time supporter of the SNP getting Scotland out of this Union on PB.
UKIP have a hugely positive vision of Britain - it just happens to be one you apparently disagree with. The vision of an independent trading nation freed from the shackles of EU incompetence and mismanagement where there is real social mobility with education unfettered by failed social experimentation is one I find very appealing.
That's your vision, not UKIP's. Looking at the tatters of their set of policies (nearly all of which have now been air-brushed out of the record), all that's left is this:
These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis, our politicians are doing nothing in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us. Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and our vital NHS and state school places are straining under a tide of immigration. Another tide of migration comes from the EU as controls on Bulgaria and Romania expire. Yet the political class tells us the EU is good for the UK. A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Each of the establishment main parties are now so similar they offer voters no real choice. Only outside the EU can we start to solve the problems our country faces.
UKIP has become an anti-immigration party, and little else. The anti-EU aspect is justified primarily on the (probably spurious) grounds that it would allow the UK to reduce immigration. Note how all six of the headline points in 'What we stand for' are related back to immigration.
Comments
Your party wants to stop educated Chinese coming here to spend their money in our further education system, all because they are desperate to be seen to be doing 'something' about immigration when they have no real concept of the issues at all. That is why they will defend free movement within the EU at all costs whilst refusing entry to those who at one end of the spectrum can greatly benefit our country or those at the other end who are in desperate need of our help.
Doesn't it make you ashamed to be a Tory? If not it should. Callous, self serving, incoherent incompetence is no basis for sound government.
The orange book author list includes Vince Cable and Ed Davey, The two wings of the party are not as far apart as you may imagine.
The difference between 45% and 50% is a discussion of how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
Can we now please accept a few basics. Most punters don't follow shenanigans in the Commons, or PMQs or politician A saying B. They don't care as they hate one side or the other as Satan incarnate or both sides equally. A lot decided who to vote for (or if we are honest vote against) a while back and have seen nothing to change that decision.
Either the Tories are going to improve their vote score against the normal run of governments in office or Labour will improve their vote score against the normal run of oppositions or the fruitcake party will win or the quisling yellow pox will make history by being kingmaker again. However you cut it the result will be unusual according to the history books because the history books have gone on holiday.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRAmvLV_EmY&feature=c4-overview&list=UUoUXxtd712vGe5p5lBk_eMg
"My understanding this morning was that the LDs had agreed to the home secretary’s power to remove citizenship only to see off the unacceptable rebel amendments. But the Government has just announced it won’t oppose the Raab amendment"
http://www.libdemvoice.org/why-has-nick-clegg-backed-plan-to-deprive-terror-suspects-of-citizenship-38025.html#comments
So that would mean Cammie was so terrified of his backbenches he begged Clegg to accept all the concessions to the tory rebels (which unbelievably Clegg agrees to) then when it becomes clear the tory rebels have told Cammie where to stick his concessions he caves in anyway and leaves Clegg to vote it out and holding the bag as angry lib dems realise just what he's signed them all up for.
Incredible.
Shambles doesn't even begin to cover it.
2011/12 -
2012/13"
England HEIs
China 24225 31085 37440 44255 46400 5%
India 18480 18195 18535 13250 10235 -23%
United States 6685 7230 7575 7925 7870 -1%
Nigeria 6650 8030 8050 8170 7855 -4%
Malaysia 5575 6505 6470 6765 6890 2%
Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China) 3680 3975 4220 4760 5710 20%
Thailand 2490 3000 3380 3545 3420 -4%
Saudi Arabia 2730 4665 5185 3555 3265 -8%
Pakistan 4435 4225 4580 3390 2825 -17%
Singapore 1295 1680 1925 2185 2420 11%
All other 43710 46245 46120 45205 45265 0%
Total England HEIs 119960 134825 143480 143010 142150 -1%
Except you are wrong, Of all the regions in the world that send students to the UK the biggest increases since the coalition are those from China and Hong Kong.
The Cameroons do sound very tired and emotional tonight for obvious reasons.
It is sad that the current crop of lefties on here are so poor that they can't even get their basic attacks right. Tim would never have made such a fundamental mistake.
Incredible.
Shambles doesn't even begin to cover it.
Seriously, did anyone in government know what/if/if not they were voting for today. It seems like they were changing their minds every few minutes. The funny thing bout that article was the Lib Dem saying "Of course, if the Labour Party were actually thinking like a responsible political party, they’d vote against the amendments rather than play political games and abstain," when in reality their own leader was doing the hokey cokey with his parties decision.
Richard Tyndall has reprimanded you for the use of an oxymoron.
It falls to me to pick up on your use of tautology.
All you needed to say was "It's the BBC".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9gKLAKBLu8&
This one?
Wowzers the feminist on QT is Cressida off The Modern Parents in Viz!!!
Night All!
But if that is your vision then of course that is fair enough.
She is appearing at Leicester Comedy Festival on 16th Feb, at Secular hall.
I cannot see even the Porker crying tears of laughter!
Mostly it is the mild weather. We have hardly had a frost and orthopaedic admissions are much fewer than last year.
Two men not short of an opinion
But given that I think mass migration is ultimately bad for the country and that part of that is because of the unacceptable strain it puts on our services, it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to try and claim the basic point is not one I agree with.
UKIP should copy the policy as part of its immigration policy, and probably will!
I thought the NHS crisis was being caused by Seniors misplacing their Tramadol prescriptions and going to hospital A&E departments rather than GP surgeries to get replacements.
I am probably a bit demob happy. Three weeks away from home ends tomorrow. This has been one of the toughest winters in memory for offshore work with a lot of installations evacuated because the weather was so bad they could not resupply with food and water plus a couple because there has been a genuine fear they might not survive the storms. I am very glad to be getting a couple of weeks away from it.
I caught the BBC 10 O'clock news tonight, and while Nick Robinson whittered on about a Tory splits and Cameron caving in etc, but the politics of both Labour and the Libdems successfully combining to vote to defeat the Raab amendment looked terrible as a result. While Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg now fight over those Lab/Libdem switchers, and with Ed MIliband desperately hoping that they will deliver his 35% strategy while Clegg tries to avoid a complete humiliating GE defeat.
On the other hand, the Conservatives right now must be having a 'Carlsberg' moment when it comes to their dream strategy for bringing back former Con/UKIP switchers back into the fold. And no matter how much the Labour party might wish or claim that Cameron has lost control of his party. It would appear that quite the opposite is happening this week, just look at the way that its now those backbench rebels who are now fracturing and shrinking. As always happens when the Labour party over play their hand, it has a way of uniting the Conservatives. Ask Gordon Brown about that 2007 GE that never was.
Damascan christians could probably integrate fastish.
And just because she's a Syrian doesn't give her the authority to speak for all syrians !
Chadsmead (Lichfield) Result:
LibDem gain from Conservative:
LibDem - 36.0% (+4.8) - 206
LAB - 27.4% (-1.6) - 157
UKIP - 18.8% (+18.8) - 108
CON - 17.8% (-22.0) - 102
It does make you wonder about Labour.
If Rennard's LibDems can take a council estate ward in the West Midlands from the Tories at a time of a Kipper surge, what hope for the Miliband boys?
Isn't the West Midlands where tim told us the 2015 election will be won?
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics 1h
EXCL: Ed-ache for Labour as Alan Johnson reveals 'tensions' between Miliband and Balls over flagship tax policy: http://bit.ly/1bbfEMf
LOL
As for monocles. Not really my style. Though I might enjoy regarding you with disdain over the top of a pair of pince-nez.
Was the class of '92 more trouble to Major than this lot is to Cam ?
Have a safe journey home!
If you traverse the beach (Stone Bay) beyond the harbour where the Tartar Frigate is located and climb the steps up from the bay then you (almost) arrive at the prep school where I spent five years boarding in the late 1960s.
Not that I spent much time in the Tartar Frigate then, but I did eat there during a visit to Broadstairs about a decade ago.
It had a reputation for good beer, good music, good fish and a good smoke (not tobacco). All confirmed during my visit.
Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ)
30/01/2014 23:12
Labour - this is what #Ukip are telling your voters in Wythenshawe --> pic.twitter.com/c2rd3EImy1
LAB - 27.4% (-1.6) - 157
UKIP - 18.8% (+18.8) - 108
CON - 17.8% (-22.0) - 102
Avery, to you gettingbeaten by an innings and 200 runs is good because it was not an innings and 500 runs !
Losing more than half of your votes. From No.1 to No.4.
And guess what ? You are happy that Labour did not win it. In the overall calculations, it means sod all. Your guys are getting smashed all over the park in the 4th year of a parliament.
There must be something in the ECHR charter which forbids such caning. Oops, sorry ! You lot like that, don't you ?
Fair point. The rebellions are usually bigger and seem to be even more frequent under Cast Iron Cammie. Nor are they limited to Europe. Major also called out the "bast**ds" when they made his life a misery whereas Cammie tries pathetically to ingratiate himself with them in the commons tearoom straight after they have just humiliated him yet again.
Of course if you live on planet Cameroon and not the real world this is all somehow a 'triumph' for Cammie and somehow won't encourage the rebels to keep up the pressure. Even more hilariously we're supposed to believe this self-evident shambles is going to have the kippers quaking in their boots instead of Farage chuckling away and rubbing his hands in glee at the obvious chaos and fear he is provoking in Cammie and the tory party.
The point is, Surby, that a traditionally Labour leaning ward in a Midlands town should be going Labour in a council election at this stage of the parliamentary term. This especially applies when the Lib Dems are facing headwinds and the Kippers being driven by tailwinds.
The only objective conclusion that any intelligent observer can reach is that Cap'n Miliband has steered the good ship Labour into electoral doldrums.
No cricketing analogies needed.
Good of you to concede that something that doesn't mention race, and policies that are the same for everyone regardless of race, maybe isn't
racist.
Labour are a 94% chance according to bookies, I guess they'll outline a positive vision rather than a negative campaign
LD was second placed. Interesting, Tories still switched to UKIP in large numbers despite knowing the LD was so close.
Could this be the harbinger of Canada 1993 ? Will we see something extraordinary in May 2014 ?
Letting the first few races go before putting in the effort and skill needed to win when it counts.
Cammie also has the help of an extraordinarily gullible and incompetent Clegg who agreed to big concessions to the rebel tory backbenchers just to save face for Cammie but was then left holding the bag when Cammie caved in to them anyway and abstained.
There is no question that a very vocal and very sizeable number of tory MPs are quite content to keep rebelling against the tory leadership and today's shambles will hardly do anything to stop them . Quite the reverse.
Back in the 80's when my late Dad was working out in the North Sea, he and the rest of the crew had just worked Christmas and were looking forward to getting home for New Year, but the weather was against them and caused a huge delay and back log. Eventually on New Year's eve, my dad managed to get a helicopter off the rig and eventually back to Aberdeen. But one big problem, he met a horrendous winter storm which meant that he nearly ended up stranded in Inverness for the night as the A9 the had just been closed due to snow. But this old Scottish soldier was determined to get home to his family for New Year, and he made it with less than an hour to go! And all thanks to the snow plough team tasked with trying to open the road, and a very understanding Highland Police Officer who allowed him through the snow gates so he could follow immediately behind that snow plough all the way home. He impressed the police officer with his well prepared winter emergency kit in the boot of the car too.
When I spoke to someone about it this morning they said they expected the Green administration to lose the vote of confidence to Labour / Tories but they also expected the Green administration to carry on because the opposition had no common ground to come up with an alternative. So I'm not sure this vote means anything but I'm also not sure the Green administration has the votes to get a referendum on the cap-breaching council tax rise through either (can you tell I'm not following this very closely?). I'm intensely relaxed about the implications of all this for the bets I have on Caroline retaining her seat. I think people vote different ways for the Council / Westminster and I'm not sure this is a net negative anyway (and if it is I'm happier to see them go down swinging for the principles rather than managing the mess the Coalition has landed all councils in).
I had the same thought but was just too late to edit my post to insert "(one and the same?)" into the text!
It would certainly explain all the shoe posts...
On a serious note I can't fathom what is going on. This could be a real outlier, but then we've just had a couple of polls with real shrinking leads coming out of nowhere, when populus seemed to be as you were.???????????
The Labour lead is therefore around 5-6%, as UKPR confirms.
And with any nationalistic party like this, they always assume that the grass would be greener, cheaper, and far more democratic if we could just managed to shed the shackles of the imperialistic empire which is the dark side that has somehow done us down while at the same time manages to allow us to move more freely. So like the SNP, I really don't get the idea of how UKIP have a positive vision of Britain, especially when you in particular have been a long time supporter of the SNP getting Scotland out of this Union on PB.