Provocative header, and a poster designed to appeal to 'decent Tory voters' in Nimbyland.
I have no idea how support for the death penalty plays with Tory voters overall (anyone?). Was there not a poll this week which showed support in the population for the death penalty as just over 50%?
Ashfield Independents are currently a little interesting; they are furiously trying to weaponize potholes against the Tories at County, whilst maintaining support for their former Deputy Leader who told a pack of lies to the police to try and get his neighbour arrested for a non-existent violent crime, for which offence said Deputy Leader, who is still an AI double councillor, is currently serving 200 hours of community punishment.
Their latest vid is about taking out safety measures from one of our local urban dual carriageways, for which they were loudly campaigning 2 years ago about threats to the safety of local schoolchildren and making comparisons with people 'racing down Route 66'. Police caught one of the scrotes racing around the town centre at 60+mph, who turned out to be the same Deputy Council Leader.
The latest anti-cycle lane video (3rd in 2 months) includes segments of the naked girls bicycle race from the Queen 1978 vid. Interesting choice; I wonder how that would play in Islington. I'd say they are worried at the edges, but since they are on ~27 seats from 33 at District, it will an achievement to lose control. The only ones who collapsed that spectacularly were Lab in 2019 (22 seats -> 2).
Incidentally, I see that Penny Mordaunt has been banned from driving for 6 months and fined approx £600.
Re Lee Anderson quotes. It isn't quite true that Anderson is a neanderthal and other people can correct him.
1) Foodbanks and cooking. Probably true in part 2) Executed people don't commit crimes. Easy to mock; but of course true 3) Nuisance tenants. The mockers mostly don't live at great risk of this. Just like I don't. I can more or less choose not to. Many can't. Who cares about them? 4) Nurses using foodbanks comment. Probably mostly true.
I'm a liberal and don't agree with Anderson. But In don't agree with many of his critics either.
I mean... if we just executed everyone there would be no crime. I'm... not exactly sure that is a helpful policy thought though.
Much as if people don't learn basic cookery or personal finance - then they may well be bad at them. Again, I'm not sure it's that helpful to just go 'duh - stoooopidz' is that useful.
How do we solve these problems is what I want to hear from a senior politician. Well, 'senior'. Just leave it all to the personal or family? Bit of it at school? Extra-curricular-optional? Broader culture? What?
Just 'omg you're sh*t and we should hang people' is what I expect from dim-witted Jim at the pub, not someone who's supposedly shaping the direction of the country.
What is the US government trying to say, and to whom, with the photos of their 10 (?) men on a boat hauling in a downed balloon, their lights brighter than the Sun? The photos look like paintings by Poussin.
The enemy of the protagonists in Wandering Earth 2 seems to be a bunch of AI fanatics They are called the Digital Life Project (never mind flesh and blood, let's upload ourselves to a database because we're only data after all), who are supported by 90% of the population of the USA.
I will find out whether any balloons feature in the film.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
Why are their poor decisions the tax payers responsibilites?
Foodbanks are charities.
The country also pays for a lot of other poor decisions, from drug taking, other addictions, feckless parents and even voting Brexit. Just because people make poor decisions doesn't mean that they don't need help.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
Have we done the Seymour Hersch "the Yanks blew up Nordstream 2" story?
Not sure what I think on that one.
Can't imagine S. Hersch would make it up. He has deep connections with the people who do or used to do such things and has never been discredited on the big US stories. What to gain at 85?
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, but we do have to up the pay of nurses until we have the number of nurses we want.
As a constant lurker I rarely contribute, but as a constituent of the egregious Mr. Anderson I feel I must. He is of course not intelligent but cunning; he was not only a Labour councillor previously but the election agent for the previous Labour MP, Gloria di Piero. He has gone from that to being the deputy leader of the Tory party in 5 years, and I don't suppose his views have changed in that time, but he now feels it is more convenient to express them. It is fair to say that what he says chimes with the general feelings of many people in Ashfield, particularly over immigration. However, he was elected last time because of two special factors: Jeremy Corbin and Brexit. The hatred for the former and enthusiasm for the latter was palpable, but they don't apply this time around. His love for publicity is a benefit for a politician, but some of his utterances antagonise people, for example attacks on striking nurses. I think he will lose his seat next time. Flag · Off Topic Like
Welcome! Please post more - always far more valuable to hear opinions on the ground than ones like mine about what I think those opinions might be.
As you say, a lot of working class Labour voters are socially conservative and always have been. Jezbollah as Labour leader was Kryptonite to these voters, soft on crime and unpatriotic. No wonder they fell for Boris, especially when Boris was offering his oven-ready Brexit deal that would instantly solve all their problems.
RP I think you, and probably the majority of us on here who are political nerds and pun obsessives, think that everyone sees, reads, analyses the way we do. We cannot understand why someone would vote for trump, vote for Anderson etc etc.
The thing is that 99% of voters see headlines, they have dyed in the wool opinions on politics (and woolydyed I hope you are bearing up and strong), they don’t look at nuance and small political issues.
Someone like Anderson is just another front in the political wall. A few thousand “red wall voters” see the press about his views, see he is vice chair of the Tories and like what he says, finally someone saying it like it should be (in their opinion).
So whilst a coalition inside the Tories is a nightmare for party unity in one way a coalition can also be very effective against a party such as the current Labour offering where they are trying to be tightly on-message but not actually saying what they will do, just what they wouldn’t do.
If you are a red wall voter what have you heard from Labour that resonates? What have they said that cuts through and makes you decide you will get off your arse and vote for them.
But then they see someone pilloried for being socially conservative and actually having a view and they might just relate - not on every issue but say “at least he’s not a party robot” etc.
So to cut through the balls I wrote, the Lee Anderson issue might cause us to hold our noses but he’s probably more attractive to a lot of voters than someone like Lisa Nandy because he has a profile and identity they can relate to. Be careful thinking he is toxic as he’s probably really not.
Are you kidding? I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall and have posted about it at length.
The fact you say "I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall" is an immediate red flag - you have a view and it may be well informed but you don't know why people voted the way they did.
My neighbours? The people I had represented for 4 years on the Town Council? I make no criticism of them running out to vote Tory in vast numbers - they had been left to decline for decades under Labour and suddenly the moon on a stick had been proffered. Then Jezbollah told them that its wrong to want criminals locked up and to like Britain, and off they flooded into the polling stations.
In truth, you probably knew the views of your neighbours and had a pretty good idea of a chunk - if not all - of your constituents. Extrapolating that across to all Red Wall voters is dangerous.
As for Jezbollah, his views were known in 2017 yet people still voted for him. I suspect - and what Labour doesn't want to hear especially Starmer - is that he was trounced in 2019 not because of his alleged anti-semitism but because he had been seen to backtrack on respecting the Brexit vote.
Yes but things have moved on. Being against Brexit is now increasingly the nations view. It may have worked in 2019, but anyone trying the same tune in 2024 will get a different hearing. Hence Starmer speaking about making Brexit work. One of several reasons that I won't vote for his party.
I'd agree the country has moved on and good for you for sticking to your principles. However, my point was those claiming the electorate voted against Jezbollah because they suddenly woke up to his views are trying to pull a fast one, namely because the person who led Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit was Starmer.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
Why are their poor decisions the tax payers responsibilites?
Foodbanks are charities.
The country also pays for a lot of other poor decisions, from drug taking, other addictions, feckless parents and even voting Brexit. Just because people make poor decisions doesn't mean that they don't need help.
You forgot employing gp's on outrageous salaries there. Yes people make poor decisions and need help. However anytime anyone suggests helping them make better decisions and making that part of them getting help all the lefties are up in arms about how dare we judge them and say they need help. The left like their victims of society and want them kept their
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
Why are their poor decisions the tax payers responsibilites?
Foodbanks are charities.
The country also pays for a lot of other poor decisions, from drug taking, other addictions, feckless parents and even voting Brexit. Just because people make poor decisions doesn't mean that they don't need help.
You forgot employing gp's on outrageous salaries there. Yes people make poor decisions and need help. However anytime anyone suggests helping them make better decisions and making that part of them getting help all the lefties are up in arms about how dare we judge them and say they need help. The left like their victims of society and want them kept their
As a constant lurker I rarely contribute, but as a constituent of the egregious Mr. Anderson I feel I must. He is of course not intelligent but cunning; he was not only a Labour councillor previously but the election agent for the previous Labour MP, Gloria di Piero. He has gone from that to being the deputy leader of the Tory party in 5 years, and I don't suppose his views have changed in that time, but he now feels it is more convenient to express them. It is fair to say that what he says chimes with the general feelings of many people in Ashfield, particularly over immigration. However, he was elected last time because of two special factors: Jeremy Corbin and Brexit. The hatred for the former and enthusiasm for the latter was palpable, but they don't apply this time around. His love for publicity is a benefit for a politician, but some of his utterances antagonise people, for example attacks on striking nurses. I think he will lose his seat next time. Flag · Off Topic Like
Welcome! Please post more - always far more valuable to hear opinions on the ground than ones like mine about what I think those opinions might be.
As you say, a lot of working class Labour voters are socially conservative and always have been. Jezbollah as Labour leader was Kryptonite to these voters, soft on crime and unpatriotic. No wonder they fell for Boris, especially when Boris was offering his oven-ready Brexit deal that would instantly solve all their problems.
RP I think you, and probably the majority of us on here who are political nerds and pun obsessives, think that everyone sees, reads, analyses the way we do. We cannot understand why someone would vote for trump, vote for Anderson etc etc.
The thing is that 99% of voters see headlines, they have dyed in the wool opinions on politics (and woolydyed I hope you are bearing up and strong), they don’t look at nuance and small political issues.
Someone like Anderson is just another front in the political wall. A few thousand “red wall voters” see the press about his views, see he is vice chair of the Tories and like what he says, finally someone saying it like it should be (in their opinion).
So whilst a coalition inside the Tories is a nightmare for party unity in one way a coalition can also be very effective against a party such as the current Labour offering where they are trying to be tightly on-message but not actually saying what they will do, just what they wouldn’t do.
If you are a red wall voter what have you heard from Labour that resonates? What have they said that cuts through and makes you decide you will get off your arse and vote for them.
But then they see someone pilloried for being socially conservative and actually having a view and they might just relate - not on every issue but say “at least he’s not a party robot” etc.
So to cut through the balls I wrote, the Lee Anderson issue might cause us to hold our noses but he’s probably more attractive to a lot of voters than someone like Lisa Nandy because he has a profile and identity they can relate to. Be careful thinking he is toxic as he’s probably really not.
Are you kidding? I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall and have posted about it at length.
The fact you say "I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall" is an immediate red flag - you have a view and it may be well informed but you don't know why people voted the way they did.
My neighbours? The people I had represented for 4 years on the Town Council? I make no criticism of them running out to vote Tory in vast numbers - they had been left to decline for decades under Labour and suddenly the moon on a stick had been proffered. Then Jezbollah told them that its wrong to want criminals locked up and to like Britain, and off they flooded into the polling stations.
In truth, you probably knew the views of your neighbours and had a pretty good idea of a chunk - if not all - of your constituents. Extrapolating that across to all Red Wall voters is dangerous.
As for Jezbollah, his views were known in 2017 yet people still voted for him. I suspect - and what Labour doesn't want to hear especially Starmer - is that he was trounced in 2019 not because of his alleged anti-semitism but because he had been seen to backtrack on respecting the Brexit vote.
Yes but things have moved on. Being against Brexit is now increasingly the nations view. It may have worked in 2019, but anyone trying the same tune in 2024 will get a different hearing. Hence Starmer speaking about making Brexit work. One of several reasons that I won't vote for his party.
I'd agree the country has moved on and good for you for sticking to your principles. However, my point was those claiming the electorate voted against Jezbollah because they suddenly woke up to his views are trying to pull a fast one, namely because the person who led Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit was Starmer.
I didn't say that. The Corbyn offer of 2017 - the wise uncle with the "oh Jeremy Corbyn" adoration - was very different to the Corbyn offer of 2019. We had had another 30 months of exposing what a mad old unpatriotic fool he was. Combine that with the moon on a stick offer to Get Brexit Done and I wasn't at all surprised.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
Why are their poor decisions the tax payers responsibilites?
Foodbanks are charities.
The country also pays for a lot of other poor decisions, from drug taking, other addictions, feckless parents and even voting Brexit. Just because people make poor decisions doesn't mean that they don't need help.
You forgot employing gp's on outrageous salaries there. Yes people make poor decisions and need help. However anytime anyone suggests helping them make better decisions and making that part of them getting help all the lefties are up in arms about how dare we judge them and say they need help. The left like their victims of society and want them kept their
Had you thought of anger management counselling?
You are suggesting that no one should be angry about how this country is being managed? Maybe you should be suggesting anger management to all the lefties on here
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
Maybe they're trying to whack Reform out of the way before Labour. Or the Heil will publish a photo of nurses using a foodbank and, whaddayaknow, they're all black. And two of them are wearing expensive wristwatches. I wouldn't underestimate the Tory party. Or the depth of its depravity.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I wonder what proportion of those who will be influenced by this approach actually vote
It's a Blue Wall strategy for affluent suburbs, which the Lib Dems have the best chance of winning. It wouldn't work for Labour, which is partly the point I think. Lib Dems also want to differentiate from Labour. The Conservative vote has collapsed so much that Labour is contending against the Lib Dems in some of these seats.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
I wouldn't really agree with this, in my experience. If someone spends almost their entire time at the pub, however wonderful they tell you their life is, it's likely they have significant problems.
As a constant lurker I rarely contribute, but as a constituent of the egregious Mr. Anderson I feel I must. He is of course not intelligent but cunning; he was not only a Labour councillor previously but the election agent for the previous Labour MP, Gloria di Piero. He has gone from that to being the deputy leader of the Tory party in 5 years, and I don't suppose his views have changed in that time, but he now feels it is more convenient to express them. It is fair to say that what he says chimes with the general feelings of many people in Ashfield, particularly over immigration. However, he was elected last time because of two special factors: Jeremy Corbin and Brexit. The hatred for the former and enthusiasm for the latter was palpable, but they don't apply this time around. His love for publicity is a benefit for a politician, but some of his utterances antagonise people, for example attacks on striking nurses. I think he will lose his seat next time. Flag · Off Topic Like
Also as a constituent, I'd add the Ashfield Independents as a third special factor - Zadrozny got within ~200 votes of taking the seat in 2010 as a Lib Dem, and took 13,000+ votes in 2019, coming second.
It's the AIs (whatever you think of them) that have pithed Labour in Ashfield, and Anderson came through the middle (or passed on the RHS) last time.
I'd be interested to know what base of activists Labour have left, or where they sit on the party spectrum; I'm guessing some strength since the local council collapse is recent, and Gloria de Piero was afaik generally popular - perhaps less so since she joined GB News. The last I heard of Lib Dems was that they had merged the local branch with Mansfield. No idea about local Tory strength.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
As a constant lurker I rarely contribute, but as a constituent of the egregious Mr. Anderson I feel I must. He is of course not intelligent but cunning; he was not only a Labour councillor previously but the election agent for the previous Labour MP, Gloria di Piero. He has gone from that to being the deputy leader of the Tory party in 5 years, and I don't suppose his views have changed in that time, but he now feels it is more convenient to express them. It is fair to say that what he says chimes with the general feelings of many people in Ashfield, particularly over immigration. However, he was elected last time because of two special factors: Jeremy Corbin and Brexit. The hatred for the former and enthusiasm for the latter was palpable, but they don't apply this time around. His love for publicity is a benefit for a politician, but some of his utterances antagonise people, for example attacks on striking nurses. I think he will lose his seat next time. Flag · Off Topic Like
Welcome! Please post more - always far more valuable to hear opinions on the ground than ones like mine about what I think those opinions might be.
As you say, a lot of working class Labour voters are socially conservative and always have been. Jezbollah as Labour leader was Kryptonite to these voters, soft on crime and unpatriotic. No wonder they fell for Boris, especially when Boris was offering his oven-ready Brexit deal that would instantly solve all their problems.
RP I think you, and probably the majority of us on here who are political nerds and pun obsessives, think that everyone sees, reads, analyses the way we do. We cannot understand why someone would vote for trump, vote for Anderson etc etc.
The thing is that 99% of voters see headlines, they have dyed in the wool opinions on politics (and woolydyed I hope you are bearing up and strong), they don’t look at nuance and small political issues.
Someone like Anderson is just another front in the political wall. A few thousand “red wall voters” see the press about his views, see he is vice chair of the Tories and like what he says, finally someone saying it like it should be (in their opinion).
So whilst a coalition inside the Tories is a nightmare for party unity in one way a coalition can also be very effective against a party such as the current Labour offering where they are trying to be tightly on-message but not actually saying what they will do, just what they wouldn’t do.
If you are a red wall voter what have you heard from Labour that resonates? What have they said that cuts through and makes you decide you will get off your arse and vote for them.
But then they see someone pilloried for being socially conservative and actually having a view and they might just relate - not on every issue but say “at least he’s not a party robot” etc.
So to cut through the balls I wrote, the Lee Anderson issue might cause us to hold our noses but he’s probably more attractive to a lot of voters than someone like Lisa Nandy because he has a profile and identity they can relate to. Be careful thinking he is toxic as he’s probably really not.
Are you kidding? I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall and have posted about it at length.
The fact you say "I know exactly why people voted for Boris from the red wall" is an immediate red flag - you have a view and it may be well informed but you don't know why people voted the way they did.
My neighbours? The people I had represented for 4 years on the Town Council? I make no criticism of them running out to vote Tory in vast numbers - they had been left to decline for decades under Labour and suddenly the moon on a stick had been proffered. Then Jezbollah told them that its wrong to want criminals locked up and to like Britain, and off they flooded into the polling stations.
In truth, you probably knew the views of your neighbours and had a pretty good idea of a chunk - if not all - of your constituents. Extrapolating that across to all Red Wall voters is dangerous.
As for Jezbollah, his views were known in 2017 yet people still voted for him. I suspect - and what Labour doesn't want to hear especially Starmer - is that he was trounced in 2019 not because of his alleged anti-semitism but because he had been seen to backtrack on respecting the Brexit vote.
Yes but things have moved on. Being against Brexit is now increasingly the nations view. It may have worked in 2019, but anyone trying the same tune in 2024 will get a different hearing. Hence Starmer speaking about making Brexit work. One of several reasons that I won't vote for his party.
I'd agree the country has moved on and good for you for sticking to your principles. However, my point was those claiming the electorate voted against Jezbollah because they suddenly woke up to his views are trying to pull a fast one, namely because the person who led Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit was Starmer.
I didn't say that. The Corbyn offer of 2017 - the wise uncle with the "oh Jeremy Corbyn" adoration - was very different to the Corbyn offer of 2019. We had had another 30 months of exposing what a mad old unpatriotic fool he was. Combine that with the moon on a stick offer to Get Brexit Done and I wasn't at all surprised.
Yes and no. You are right, you didn't. My point is that JC was a known entity to many Red Wall voters in 2017 as were his views. He was elected in September 2015 and his views were under the spotlight for nearly two years by the time of the election. The idea that his 2017-9 behaviour suddenly went so ballistically out there compared to his previous stance is just not true.
What did change was that he backtracked on his 2017 stance on Brexit in 2019, and had been tying himself in knots before then - which is why Johnson was comfortable going for the election.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
I wouldn't really agree with this, in my experience. If someone spends almost their entire time at the pub, however wonderful they tell you their life is, it's likely they have significant problems.
That's fair and I would disagree with your view. However, trying to blame everything on psychological issues is a cop out and, in my view, unfair to those who do have genuine mental health issues.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
Point of Order. I don't think the Labour Party has agreed to pay nurses more.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
I wouldn't really agree with this, in my experience. If someone spends almost their entire time at the pub, however wonderful they tell you their life is, it's likely they have significant problems.
That's fair and I would disagree with your view. However, trying to blame everything on psychological issues is a cop out and, in my view, unfair to those who do have genuine mental health issues.
But these kind of issues can be on a spectrum, though. There can be the most difficult and obvious problems, like those unfortunately faced by your relative, but also many other people who can appear to function relatively well but are just unable to make basic decisions or balances, or, in the case of more introverted people, complete basic interactions.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
"They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer ...."
My guess is that the pb.com demographic is more exclusive than the top 20 per cent ...
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.
They can abhor all they want. It didn't stop them being part of a government under whom food bank use went up massively.
Ancient history in political terms. All parties try to bring up historical stuff, reasonably and unreasonably, but the public are pretty selective in what they choose to be outraged by (they weren't outraged by Corbyn on 2017, but for the same things in 2019 they were, for example).
It's just my own personal opinion really. On Corbyn, it may be that people were much less outraged by Corbyn in 2017 because they knew less about him at that point.
In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.
I'd go further and say because some 'Red Wallers' have the instincts of semi house trained pit-bulls it doesn't follow they are happy for their MP's or leaders to share those instincts. It is a well known phenomenon that voters often hope and expect their leaders to behave with more empathy dignity and tolerance than they might show themselves.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
I couldn't survive without online banking. My bank natwest only has 1 branch in the whole county, 15 miles away.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
Point of Order. I don't think the Labour Party has agreed to pay nurses more.
Indeed. Because Serkeir is triangulating to the n'th degree. And seems to fundamentally detest the union movement in the same way Blair did. But ultimately I expect he will defend capitalism and pay them more.
Because the Tories are so beholden to their spiv owners that they have abandoned basic economic principles. If you want people to buy your product/service they have to have the cash to do so. Allegedly these nurses are wasting their money and budgeting poorly - unless they are burning their salary they are spending this on products / services. But they aren't being paid enough to have enough to keep cash flowing through the economy as opposed to being corruptly pocketed by spivs.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
"They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer ...."
My guess is that the pb.com demographic is more exclusive than the top 20 per cent ...
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
OK then.
What would you like to happen? What sort of government do you want?
And what compromises would you be prepared to make from your ideal to get something you'd still basically be content with?
In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.
They can abhor all they want. It didn't stop them being part of a government under whom food bank use went up massively.
Ancient history in political terms. All parties try to bring up historical stuff, reasonably and unreasonably, but the public are pretty selective in what they choose to be outraged by (they weren't outraged by Corbyn on 2017, but for the same things in 2019 they were, for example).
It's just my own personal opinion really. On Corbyn, it may be that people were much less outraged by Corbyn in 2017 because they knew less about him at that point.
Yet they were told of those things. The public chose to know less, or discard it.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
You sound like a saloon bar warrior, until the beer runs out.
In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.
I'd go further and say because some 'Red Wallers' have the instincts of semi house trained pit-bulls it doesn't follow they are happy for their MP's or leaders to share those instincts. It is a well known phenomenon that voters often hope and expect their leaders to behave with more empathy dignity and tolerance than they might show themselves.
Roger showing his best to hide his disdain for the plebs in the North.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
I couldn't survive without online banking. My bank natwest only has 1 branch in the whole county, 15 miles away.
I am pretty sure there are atm's nearer and your local shops take chip and pin so no need for online banking
What makes Lee Anderson a tosser is not his views on budgeting and cooking but the judgment that comes with it. It’s probably true that many people could budget better so go ahead and promote initiatives that teach people. You don’t have to demonise people doing their best to survive under their current circumstances
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
Context:
This "sack the nurses" Tory government increased the number of Nurses / Health Visitors in the NHS by over 30,000 FTE so far since Nov 2019 to October 2022, which is around 10% and are the latest figures I can find.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
I couldn't survive without online banking. My bank natwest only has 1 branch in the whole county, 15 miles away.
I am pretty sure there are atm's nearer and your local shops take chip and pin so no need for online banking
You use ATMs and chip and pin because you distrust the banks' encryption and data security?
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
I wouldn't really agree with this, in my experience. If someone spends almost their entire time at the pub, however wonderful they tell you their life is, it's likely they have significant problems.
That's fair and I would disagree with your view. However, trying to blame everything on psychological issues is a cop out and, in my view, unfair to those who do have genuine mental health issues.
But these kind of issues can be on a spectrum, though. There can be the most difficult and obvious problems, like those unfortunately faced by your relative, but also many other people who can appear to function relatively well but are just unable to make basic decisions or balances, or, in the case of more introverted people, complete basic interactions.
I wouldn't say many of those are psychological issues but more character traits which increasingly is what is being lumped together in a very broad based category. I don't think labelling those traits helps those people because it gives an excuse to not try to improve one's situation and instead blame it on non-changeable factors. Again, we have different views on this but such is life.
In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.
I'd go further and say because some 'Red Wallers' have the instincts of semi house trained pit-bulls it doesn't follow they are happy for their MP's or leaders to share those instincts. It is a well known phenomenon that voters often hope and expect their leaders to behave with more empathy dignity and tolerance than they might show themselves.
I wouldn't be quite as disparaging about "Red Wallers", but it is true people value decency more than some commentators think. For better or for worse Anderson sets the Tory stall to be the Nasty Party. The Lib Dems think they can leverage that view of their competition. I don't see reason to disbelieve them.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
The die hard Andersonian Conservatives castigating the nurses in support of 30p Lee's analysis that nurses can't balance their home economics budget conveniently miss the fact that their greatest living Englishman World King needed an £800,000 leg up from friends, relatives and you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours jockeys.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
I couldn't survive without online banking. My bank natwest only has 1 branch in the whole county, 15 miles away.
I am pretty sure there are atm's nearer and your local shops take chip and pin so no need for online banking
You use ATMs and chip and pin because you distrust the banks' encryption and data security?
I don't really get a choice in that. I do have a choice to not use their even crappier online banking systems which I wouldn't personally trust with a barge pole. I reduce my exposure as much as I can. Is it perfect no, but its better than nothing
As a constant lurker I rarely contribute, but as a constituent of the egregious Mr. Anderson I feel I must. He is of course not intelligent but cunning; he was not only a Labour councillor previously but the election agent for the previous Labour MP, Gloria di Piero. He has gone from that to being the deputy leader of the Tory party in 5 years, and I don't suppose his views have changed in that time, but he now feels it is more convenient to express them. It is fair to say that what he says chimes with the general feelings of many people in Ashfield, particularly over immigration. However, he was elected last time because of two special factors: Jeremy Corbin and Brexit. The hatred for the former and enthusiasm for the latter was palpable, but they don't apply this time around. His love for publicity is a benefit for a politician, but some of his utterances antagonise people, for example attacks on striking nurses. I think he will lose his seat next time. Flag · Off Topic Like
Also as a constituent, I'd add the Ashfield Independents as a third special factor - Zadrozny got within ~200 votes of taking the seat in 2010 as a Lib Dem, and took 13,000+ votes in 2019, coming second.
It's the AIs (whatever you think of them) that have pithed Labour in Ashfield, and Anderson came through the middle (or passed on the RHS) last time.
I'd be interested to know what base of activists Labour have left, or where they sit on the party spectrum; I'm guessing some strength since the local council collapse is recent, and Gloria de Piero was afaik generally popular - perhaps less so since she joined GB News. The last I heard of Lib Dems was that they had merged the local branch with Mansfield. No idea about local Tory strength.
I do wonder if Anderson has been particularly dumb in his attacks on nurses. Ashfield contains the Sherwood Forest Trust main hospital (King's Mill) for the entire central part of Nottinghamshire. There are a LOT of medical professionals living in the area (and of course their families). Not sure how they will be taking be told they are not poor, just stupid.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
What makes Lee Anderson a tosser is not his views on budgeting and cooking but the judgment that comes with it. It’s probably true that many people could budget better so go ahead and promote initiatives that teach people. You don’t have to demonise people doing their best to survive under their current circumstances
Unfortunately, judgement is quite prevalent in politics these days - and more from the left than the right.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
ridiculous statement
Good medical skills don't necessarily correlate with good budgeting skills, or vice versa. I wouldn't trust you with brain surgery but I bet you are wizard at online banking!
I don't do online banking because i have no faith in their encryption or data security as I am not stupid. However the pooint is their poor budgeting skills is not my issue so stop using it to try and pick my pockets to pay them more. Many people manage on salaries less than a nurses without going to food banks. Some nurses using them is not an argument for them being underpaid its an argument for some of them are piss poor at money management and would likely be the same if you doubled there salary
You don't do online banking? How do you survive?
Quite easily thank you, online banking would add nothing to my life and when some scammer manages to empty my bank account via online banking I can point out to my bank I never even registered for it so its their security issues that allowed it
I couldn't survive without online banking. My bank natwest only has 1 branch in the whole county, 15 miles away.
I am pretty sure there are atm's nearer and your local shops take chip and pin so no need for online banking
It's very easy for someone to clone your card at an ATM, and not having access to online banking would mean it would be a long time before you realised you'd been done I'm afraid. I usually try to access my account daily.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
You need to get out more then.
You mean I need to mix more with people that do well out of centrist policies well that is an ever decreasing %age . In 92 it was probably the bottom 20% that it failed....now its more like the bottom 80% give it time and it will be people like you goin wtf why am I getting stamped on
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
'A number of other issues' would suggest to me that it isn't seen as completely absurd to suggest budgeting is a part of the issue, it's just that Anderson is a perfomative tosser who says it is the whole of the issue.
Yes it isn't just lack of financial resources that drives people to foodbanks, or other charitable feeding places like the Salvation Army or Sikh temples. There is often a lack of other social resources such as reliable family, understanding of nutrition, mental health issues, addiction etc.
Not all of the poor are the "undeserving poor" but many make poor decisions that contribute to their difficulties.
As someone who grew up on a council estate and with unemployed parents, the simple truth - from my experience at least - is that personal failings often counted for a lot of problems.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
What you describe as personal failings is often psychological issues.
If you want to say that spending a lot of their money at the pub and getting pissed is a psychological issue, then you might have a point.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
I wouldn't really agree with this, in my experience. If someone spends almost their entire time at the pub, however wonderful they tell you their life is, it's likely they have significant problems.
That's fair and I would disagree with your view. However, trying to blame everything on psychological issues is a cop out and, in my view, unfair to those who do have genuine mental health issues.
But these kind of issues can be on a spectrum, though. There can be the most difficult and obvious problems, like those unfortunately faced by your relative, but also many other people who can appear to function relatively well but are just unable to make basic decisions or balances, or, in the case of more introverted people, complete basic interactions.
I wouldn't say many of those are psychological issues but more character traits which increasingly is what is being lumped together in a very broad based category. I don't think labelling those traits helps those people because it gives an excuse to not try to improve one's situation and instead blame it on non-changeable factors. Again, we have different views on this but such is life.
I think they are changeable, but people might sometimes need external help. That isn't always as easy if you live in the most deprived area, and / or your peers don't encourage this kind of approach.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
You need to get out more then.
You mean I need to mix more with people that do well out of centrist policies well that is an ever decreasing %age . In 92 it was probably the bottom 20% that it failed....now its more like the bottom 80% give it time and it will be people like you goin wtf why am I getting stamped on
Problem is that you have dismissed everyone from UKIP through to TUSC as "centrist"...
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
You need to get out more then.
You mean I need to mix more with people that do well out of centrist policies well that is an ever decreasing %age . In 92 it was probably the bottom 20% that it failed....now its more like the bottom 80% give it time and it will be people like you goin wtf why am I getting stamped on
So what do you want done about it?
If, for example, you want meaningfully lower taxes, what should government meaningfully cut to pay for it?
(My answer, lots more housing linked to cities by trams to seriously drive down house prices. Delivered as quickly as can be done without actually putting people in negative equity.)
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It might be the right suicide mission for a doomed government to do, but a Conservative party run by rentiers for rentiers isn't going to piss off its few remaining voters, is it?
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Therese Coffey stopped or covered up up to seven DWP investigations into these kind of things, as TheMightyAlex , I think it was , recently outlined.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
It depends very much on their other financial commitments, including mortgages, rents, bills etc, and a number of other issues such as personal resources in terms of savings and other support networks.
So if I make personal commitments which such as credit card bills, expensive phone contracts which means I mean I need to use a food bank despite being on 35k a year then its the governments fault not my budgeting issues?
Those would be budgeting issues, but rent and utilities bills much less so.
That's before we get into budgeting issues such as parents spending money on alcohol or drugs rather than food for their children. Some parents make very poor decisions.
Anyway, foodbanks are not taxpayers money, so why should you care?
I care because fuckwits like that get stories published about it and then it gets used as reasons why they should get a payrise which I am definitely paying for. Should take it as if you cant budget you cant care for people and sack them in my view
Fab. So you sack the nurses. With whom do you replace them? We need nurses, and you can't just hire someone else like you could if you were Tesco.
So what are you suggesting we keep upping the pay of nurses till we stop having their sob stories....no
No, YOU suggested we just sack them. I am asking you to play out your proposal and tell us who you would replace them with. I do like "sob stories" though - its like its a project to decrease the remaining number of Tory MPs.
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
I am not a tory so why should I care?
Because you are defending their position. Given a choice of a sack the nurses Tory government or a pay the nurses Labour government, you can hardly say you wouldn't prefer sack the nurses Tories. Having just demanded that the nurses get the sack.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
I want neither because neither are going to work, lib dems which you support will be even worse. We have had 30 years of centrist governements. They work for most of the top 20% and make them richer that is most people on these boards, the rest are getting poorer and poorer yet you all go we need centrist dad times to come again. Sorry the more you argue that the closer you bring the rest of us to go fuck you and rise up.....brexit was your warning a fairly gently nudge we are fed up. Ignore it at your peril
What you or I want doesn't matter - the next government will be Labour or Tory. If you're against centre governments I assume you want one from the right beyond the Tories? As a life-long supporter of proper voting I support your right to vote for a Farage character and have your votes actually deliver.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
I certainly wouldn't vote for farage as his party policies have been pretty much left wing. Clue immigration isn't a left or right issues as seen by milibrands immigration mugs.
Genuine question - do any national or regional parties represent your position?
Absolutely none, and I don't think I am alone in that. I don't know a single person that has a good word to say for any of the major parties
You need to get out more then.
You mean I need to mix more with people that do well out of centrist policies well that is an ever decreasing %age . In 92 it was probably the bottom 20% that it failed....now its more like the bottom 80% give it time and it will be people like you goin wtf why am I getting stamped on
So what do you want done about it?
If, for example, you want meaningfully lower taxes, what should government meaningfully cut to pay for it?
(My answer, lots more housing linked to cities by trams to seriously drive down house prices. Delivered as quickly as can be done without actually putting people in negative equity.)
I have said many times here, we cant afford everything the state currently does and to fully fund it so we need to have the conversation what should the state do , this is how much it costs to fully fund it, this is how much we can realistically raise.
Maybe that means taxes rise....maybe the state does less but until politicians come clean and have this conversation with us and let us decide how can people decide.
Politicians dont want to have the conversation for two reasons
1) self interest they want reelection 2) They are worried we might decide we dont need some of their pet projects
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It might be the right suicide mission for a doomed government to do, but a Conservative party run by rentiers for rentiers isn't going to piss off its few remaining voters, is it?
It needed to be done in 2015, the May government took it's foot off the pedal to protect older voters. Boris even more so and now Rishi is the embodiment if protecting old people's income at the expense of the young. The second home levy should be up to 15% by now and there should be an annual value surcharge which makes being a landlord effectively impossible for all but the highest yielding projects that require substantial upfront investment in refurbishment.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
That could be because of specific and unusual pressures of the job, including generally more central and pricey locations of hospitals. Nurses are not usually in the drink all day in the pub category.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
Rent is eating huge percentages of peoples wages in some areas. Strangely correlated to the shortages of the staff in those areas, in various categories.
It's almost as if big rents make it expensive to live there or something.
Provocative header, and a poster designed to appeal to 'decent Tory voters' in Nimbyland.
I have no idea how support for the death penalty plays with Tory voters overall (anyone?). Was there not a poll this week which showed support in the population for the death penalty as just over 50%?
Ashfield Independents are currently a little interesting; they are furiously trying to weaponize potholes against the Tories at County, whilst maintaining support for their former Deputy Leader who told a pack of lies to the police to try and get his neighbour arrested for a non-existent violent crime, for which offence said Deputy Leader, who is still an AI double councillor, is currently serving 200 hours of community punishment.
Their latest vid is about taking out safety measures from one of our local urban dual carriageways, for which they were loudly campaigning 2 years ago about threats to the safety of local schoolchildren and making comparisons with people 'racing down Route 66'. Police caught one of the scrotes racing around the town centre at 60+mph, who turned out to be the same Deputy Council Leader.
The latest anti-cycle lane video (3rd in 2 months) includes segments of the naked girls bicycle race from the Queen 1978 vid. Interesting choice; I wonder how that would play in Islington. I'd say they are worried at the edges, but since they are on ~27 seats from 33 at District, it will an achievement to lose control. The only ones who collapsed that spectacularly were Lab in 2019 (22 seats -> 2).
Incidentally, I see that Penny Mordaunt has been banned from driving for 6 months and fined approx £600.
That's not a very impressive transgression. No wonder her leadership bid imploded.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It might be the right suicide mission for a doomed government to do, but a Conservative party run by rentiers for rentiers isn't going to piss off its few remaining voters, is it?
It needed to be done in 2015, the May government took it's foot off the pedal to protect older voters. Boris even more so and now Rishi is the embodiment if protecting old people's income at the expense of the young. The second home levy should be up to 15% by now and there should be an annual value surcharge which makes being a landlord effectively impossible for all but the highest yielding projects that require substantial upfront investment in refurbishment.
Let local authorities loose on council tax bands and re-appraisal. Wealth tax by the back door.
What makes Lee Anderson a tosser is not his views on budgeting and cooking but the judgment that comes with it. It’s probably true that many people could budget better so go ahead and promote initiatives that teach people. You don’t have to demonise people doing their best to survive under their current circumstances
I'm not sure there's much politics or serious thinking going on with him. It's personal theatre. This idea that you're something special in life if you 'speak your mind', ie it's colourful and fascinating and very brave and robust because you're saying things that many people think but don't say because they've been cowed by manners or etiquette or convention or - if you're in politics and on the populist right - by the liberal woke establishment. I hate it myself, it's tacky and essentially narcissistic, but it can work in the right hands, and I think Lee Anderson has identified himself as potentially a big player in this space. Hoping to see him do the opposite of prosper.
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
Rent is eating huge percentages of peoples wages in some areas. Strangely correlated to the shortages of the staff in those areas, in various categories.
It's almost as if big rents make it expensive to live there or something.
Yes it is and not denying that till recently I lived in the south east and kept having to move to cheaper to make the numbers work so know how it goes. However that doesnt mean I should have to pay more tax so others should be able to keep living somewhere they cant afford
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
The government (or the next one) will need to think on this
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with. 2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Yes but in the 1970s London was a relatively grimy city, Docklands Canary Wharf let alone the Shard and Gherkin had not been built and the Big Bank had not happened. London was well behind Paris, let alone NYC.
Now London is certainly the most global city in Europe and close to par with NYC. So yes we need more new housing, especially high rise in London and more social housing but London is more expensive than it was a generation ago because it is a more exciting, more multi cultural, more prosperous and wealthy city, a global financial centre with more skycrapers and modern buildings (as well as the historic buildings that were always there)
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
It's shocking to me just how much of an elitist city London is turning into. The juniors in my team all harbour dreams of buying a flat in London one day, and they're part of the lucky few who will be able to because they work in financial services, yet that's the future of the city. People who work in tech, financial and legal services who are able to buy their own place to live vs everyone else stuck renting off some scum landlord at the mercy of their whims for more pension income. The worst part about this is that my generation are relying on Keir Starmer to make a difference. I think everyone my age or around my age who hasn't yet bought knows, in the inner most thoughts, that Starmer will do precisely zero to tackle this, there will be no significant new affordable rental properties, no reform of private rentals and no push for building houses rather than flats.
My wife and I are very lucky that we both work in very high income careers, it shouldn't require that to afford to live in the city I grew up in and have our own family home. The rental market is out of control and it's time to just take a big axe to landlords (metaphorically) and if they don't like it they can sell.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
My favourite part of renting in London is how my rent goes to someone who lives and pays taxes in Hong Kong. So it's not like the 45% of my post-tax salary I pay in rent for a parking-space sized bedroom even circulates within the London economy, it is just sucked out.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
The government (or the next one) will need to think on this
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with. 2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Wrong. Nothing racist about walling off the country provided you don't selectively let people through
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
Rent is eating huge percentages of peoples wages in some areas. Strangely correlated to the shortages of the staff in those areas, in various categories.
It's almost as if big rents make it expensive to live there or something.
Yes it is and not denying that till recently I lived in the south east and kept having to move to cheaper to make the numbers work so know how it goes. However that doesnt mean I should have to pay more tax so others should be able to keep living somewhere they cant afford
Well, damn those nurses in London for trying to do nursing in London. And those silly teachers.
In Victorian times, they would have said fuck this and built another 20 miles square of London.
Now we have the houses they built for the *poorer class of labourer* changing hands for £1.5 million.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It's a great article. Shocking though.
I don't disagree with your comment: 'Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties' ...but it's a sad indictment of New Labour.
Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.
#winninghere
Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.
So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.
There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.
But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
A lot depends on what happens with the Ashfield Independents vote, but on current polling he loses his seat to Labour. Vox pops in his own constituency don't seem to be very favourable either.
From the article '“He’s on the right track if you ask me, but instead of the death penalty I’d go for a little bit of torture every week, teach them a lesson. It’s too easy to execute,” said a shopper outside the library who didn’t want to be named.'
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
The government (or the next one) will need to think on this
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with. 2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Wrong. Nothing racist about walling off the country provided you don't selectively let people through
Oh yeah - building walls is *never* about keeping people out. No sir.
Just the kind of people who go round wearing loud shirts in built up areas?
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
It's shocking to me just how much of an elitist city London is turning into. The juniors in my team all harbour dreams of buying a flat in London one day, and they're part of the lucky few who will be able to because they work in financial services, yet that's the future of the city. People who work in tech, financial and legal services who are able to buy their own place to live vs everyone else stuck renting off some scum landlord at the mercy of their whims for more pension income. The worst part about this is that my generation are relying on Keir Starmer to make a difference. I think everyone my age or around my age who hasn't yet bought knows, in the inner most thoughts, that Starmer will do precisely zero to tackle this, there will be no significant new affordable rental properties, no reform of private rentals and no push for building houses rather than flats.
My wife and I are very lucky that we both work in very high income careers, it shouldn't require that to afford to live in the city I grew up in and have our own family home. The rental market is out of control and it's time to just take a big axe to landlords (metaphorically) and if they don't like it they can sell.
Taking an axe to landlords wont help in the least which you never seem to notice....a lot of people that rent just wont get a mortgage to buy the house they rent even if it reduces in price by 20%. I would estimate( and merely a guess) if you abolished private landlords tomorrow that 80% of those currently renting would still be looking to rent and all you will have done is make renting even more expensive for them
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
It's shocking to me just how much of an elitist city London is turning into. The juniors in my team all harbour dreams of buying a flat in London one day, and they're part of the lucky few who will be able to because they work in financial services, yet that's the future of the city. People who work in tech, financial and legal services who are able to buy their own place to live vs everyone else stuck renting off some scum landlord at the mercy of their whims for more pension income. The worst part about this is that my generation are relying on Keir Starmer to make a difference. I think everyone my age or around my age who hasn't yet bought knows, in the inner most thoughts, that Starmer will do precisely zero to tackle this, there will be no significant new affordable rental properties, no reform of private rentals and no push for building houses rather than flats.
My wife and I are very lucky that we both work in very high income careers, it shouldn't require that to afford to live in the city I grew up in and have our own family home. The rental market is out of control and it's time to just take a big axe to landlords (metaphorically) and if they don't like it they can sell.
You can get a house in Barking and Dagenham, Newham or Bexley cheaper than the Home Counties average, let alone the London average.
There is affordable housing in London, just not in central London but in less glamorous outer suburbia
Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.
#winninghere
Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.
So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.
There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.
But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
A lot depends on what happens with the Ashfield Independents vote, but on current polling he loses his seat to Labour. Vox pops in his own constituency don't seem to be very favourable either.
From the article '“He’s on the right track if you ask me, but instead of the death penalty I’d go for a little bit of torture every week, teach them a lesson. It’s too easy to execute,” said a shopper outside the library who didn’t want to be named.'
That's even more revealing than the people sagging him off. The only person they found willing to defend him is a certifiable nutter. I doubt if the Tories are going to win Ashfield based solely on the sadist vote.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
It's shocking to me just how much of an elitist city London is turning into. The juniors in my team all harbour dreams of buying a flat in London one day, and they're part of the lucky few who will be able to because they work in financial services, yet that's the future of the city. People who work in tech, financial and legal services who are able to buy their own place to live vs everyone else stuck renting off some scum landlord at the mercy of their whims for more pension income. The worst part about this is that my generation are relying on Keir Starmer to make a difference. I think everyone my age or around my age who hasn't yet bought knows, in the inner most thoughts, that Starmer will do precisely zero to tackle this, there will be no significant new affordable rental properties, no reform of private rentals and no push for building houses rather than flats.
My wife and I are very lucky that we both work in very high income careers, it shouldn't require that to afford to live in the city I grew up in and have our own family home. The rental market is out of control and it's time to just take a big axe to landlords (metaphorically) and if they don't like it they can sell.
None of the those changes will hit the real problem - rental, purchase, it's all trying to get a a gallon of people into the pint pot.
We need a bigger pot.
For London there are three possibles -
1) build up 2) build out 3) use high speed public transport to bring more properties inside the 2 hour commute zone.
1) is being done - towers of tiny flats on every piece of land. They are build next to motorways now.... 2) Blocked 3) Costs 11 kazillion and takes 20 years.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It might be the right suicide mission for a doomed government to do, but a Conservative party run by rentiers for rentiers isn't going to piss off its few remaining voters, is it?
It needed to be done in 2015, the May government took it's foot off the pedal to protect older voters. Boris even more so and now Rishi is the embodiment if protecting old people's income at the expense of the young. The second home levy should be up to 15% by now and there should be an annual value surcharge which makes being a landlord effectively impossible for all but the highest yielding projects that require substantial upfront investment in refurbishment.
Let local authorities loose on council tax bands and re-appraisal. Wealth tax by the back door.
No, we need to tackle landlords and rent-seeking and it needs to be done nationally, not piecemeal. Increase the second homes levy to 15% from 3% and add in a 2.5% land value tax for non-primary residences, hand new build properties a 25 year non-transferable exemption from the land value tax and finally increase CGT on property from 28% to income tax rates. Make a massive cash grab once you turn them into forced sellers with the land value taxes. The money raised from all these measures can be put into a huge regional house building campaigns.
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It's a great article. Shocking though.
I don't disagree with your comment: 'Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties' ...but it's a sad indictment of New Labour.
The real reason, rather than Iraq, for the young's aversion to Tony Blair?
barring the unfortunate 1 or 2% where something has happened such as death of a partner etc
Where do people draw the line salary wise between needs a food bank and its a budgeting issue?
I think a lot of families are solvent but with no contingency, then one thing goes wrong and they're in trouble.
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
I said barring the unfortunate 1 or 2%.....most people earning in the 30k to 40k mark that are using food banks are doing so because they are living above their means either by not moving somewhere cheaper to rent or by having addictions to feed whether scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Many times in my life rent has risen to a point I cant pay it and pay everything else....each time I moved somewhere cheaper so I could afford. They should do the same
Where is the evidence that any significant number of people earning 30 to 40k are using foodbanks ? I will consult some of my friends on the Trussell Trust but I very much doubt it.
Why then do we keep getting sob stories about poor nurses using foodbanks in the guardian about nurses having to use food banks. Most nurses are on 30k plus...maybe it is unusual so blame the gaurdian for making it sound usual
Surely it's the fact that it's unusual that makes it newsworthy?
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
The government (or the next one) will need to think on this
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with. 2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Wrong. Nothing racist about walling off the country provided you don't selectively let people through
Oh yeah - building walls is *never* about keeping people out. No sir.
Just the kind of people who go round wearing loud shirts in built up areas?
You what? Absolutely it is about keeping people out. I lock all the doors of my house every night because I don't want anyone coming in. Does that make me racist?
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
Agreed.
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
The government (or the next one) will need to think on this
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with. 2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Wrong. Nothing racist about walling off the country provided you don't selectively let people through
Oh yeah - building walls is *never* about keeping people out. No sir.
Just the kind of people who go round wearing loud shirts in built up areas?
You what? Absolutely it is about keeping people out. I lock all the doors of my house every night because I don't want anyone coming in. Does that make me racist?
The country isn't your property. It isn't even King Charles' property...
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
It's a great article. Shocking though.
I don't disagree with your comment: 'Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties' ...but it's a sad indictment of New Labour.
The real reason, rather than Iraq, for the young's aversion to Tony Blair?
Also, on the "just leave the most productive part of the UK to earn less at a job with worse prospects so you can afford to buy a two bed terrace in Stockton when you're 35" discourse, over the past five years rents have exploded in the UK's second cities and rural areas. Manchester and Birmingham aren't much cheaper than outer London, and housing availability in the countryside has collapsed, so if you're young you'll have to fight over the few houses that are available. It doesn't really matter where I live - huge amounts of my salary will be drained by people who haven't worked for it, who aren't contributing, who aren't productive, who can extract rent simply due to the fact they were born 40 years before I was. And it's shit.
Comments
I have no idea how support for the death penalty plays with Tory voters overall (anyone?). Was there not a poll this week which showed support in the population for the death penalty as just over 50%?
Ashfield Independents are currently a little interesting; they are furiously trying to weaponize potholes against the Tories at County, whilst maintaining support for their former Deputy Leader who told a pack of lies to the police to try and get his neighbour arrested for a non-existent violent crime, for which offence said Deputy Leader, who is still an AI double councillor, is currently serving 200 hours of community punishment.
Their latest vid is about taking out safety measures from one of our local urban dual carriageways, for which they were loudly campaigning 2 years ago about threats to the safety of local schoolchildren and making comparisons with people 'racing down Route 66'. Police caught one of the scrotes racing around the town centre at 60+mph, who turned out to be the same Deputy Council Leader.
The latest anti-cycle lane video (3rd in 2 months) includes segments of the naked girls bicycle race from the Queen 1978 vid. Interesting choice; I wonder how that would play in Islington. I'd say they are worried at the edges, but since they are on ~27 seats from 33 at District, it will an achievement to lose control. The only ones who collapsed that spectacularly were Lab in 2019 (22 seats -> 2).
Incidentally, I see that Penny Mordaunt has been banned from driving for 6 months and fined approx £600.
Much as if people don't learn basic cookery or personal finance - then they may well be bad at them. Again, I'm not sure it's that helpful to just go 'duh - stoooopidz' is that useful.
How do we solve these problems is what I want to hear from a senior politician. Well, 'senior'. Just leave it all to the personal or family? Bit of it at school? Extra-curricular-optional? Broader culture? What?
Just 'omg you're sh*t and we should hang people' is what I expect from dim-witted Jim at the pub, not someone who's supposedly shaping the direction of the country.
The enemy of the protagonists in Wandering Earth 2 seems to be a bunch of AI fanatics
I will find out whether any balloons feature in the film.
In it, the good guys blow the moon up.
There's a lot of magic going on right now...
Where do you live?
What are your fixed expenditures? What about semi-voluntary?
The country also pays for a lot of other poor decisions, from drug taking, other addictions, feckless parents and even voting Brexit. Just because people make poor decisions doesn't mean that they don't need help.
My parents never used a food bank nor charity. However, they did know how to prepare low cost, nutritious food which went a long way - porridge, milk etc etc. Yes, I qualified for free school meals so that helped but I never felt hungry and they never saw themselves as needing to ask for extra help.
What they did do was budget - and save where possible. They also were house proud and kept both the house and garden clean
OTOH, the families who had problems you could tell them a mile off - gardens a mess, kids not under control etc. You'd see them often tucking into fast food They just didn't look after themselves.
A lot of what Anderson says is true. You can eat quite healthily, even with price increases, on a low budget if you are prudent and plan. Many people don't want to do that.
Why he published it on SubStack, who knows?
Attacking the nurses is bad for the Tory Party. Not realising that is comedy gold.
Or we could decide to get by with fewer nurses.
Funnily enough, they didn't seem to have 'psychological issues'. Especially when they were laughing and telling us about how they were off to score some weed.
Btw, my mother spent time in a hospital for mental health issues. I can tell you now that what those people were displaying were nowhere near those symptoms.
You're not a Tory. I'm not Labour. But we're getting a Tory government or a Labour government next. I know which one I want, you know which one you want.
It's the AIs (whatever you think of them) that have pithed Labour in Ashfield, and Anderson came through the middle (or passed on the RHS) last time.
I'd be interested to know what base of activists Labour have left, or where they sit on the party spectrum; I'm guessing some strength since the local council collapse is recent, and Gloria de Piero was afaik generally popular - perhaps less so since she joined GB News. The last I heard of Lib Dems was that they had merged the local branch with Mansfield. No idea about local Tory strength.
What did change was that he backtracked on his 2017 stance on Brexit in 2019, and had been tying himself in knots before then - which is why Johnson was comfortable going for the election.
We'd then have the same experience as the people of Burnley had when they elected BNP councillors - utter fucking morons talking big, doing nothing, then getting booted. So if Brexit was our warning then you'd need the rise of a neo-fascist movement like in Italy or Hungary to get what you want. And it looks like the risk of that happening here has passed. If people were angry that Brexit had been stolen from them then perhaps. But they're angry that Brexit has turned out to have been massively mis-sold.
My guess is that the pb.com demographic is more exclusive than the top 20 per cent ...
Because the Tories are so beholden to their spiv owners that they have abandoned basic economic principles. If you want people to buy your product/service they have to have the cash to do so. Allegedly these nurses are wasting their money and budgeting poorly - unless they are burning their salary they are spending this on products / services. But they aren't being paid enough to have enough to keep cash flowing through the economy as opposed to being corruptly pocketed by spivs.
What would you like to happen? What sort of government do you want?
And what compromises would you be prepared to make from your ideal to get something you'd still basically be content with?
This "sack the nurses" Tory government increased the number of Nurses / Health Visitors in the NHS by over 30,000 FTE so far since Nov 2019 to October 2022, which is around 10% and are the latest figures I can find.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/october-2022
Well worth the read, it's absolutely brilliant and accurate to my experiences of renting when I was in my 20s and of what I hear from the juniors in my team, extremely accurate to today.
The government hasn't been listening for far, far too long. Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties.
The reason my generation are not becoming conservative is because of this, the government hasn't listened to us about housing for 10+ years. My parents bought a 4 bedroom detached house in swanky (even then) suburb for under £150k and they bought it at a 3.5x income multiple with no help from my grandparents. To do that today for the same house, even with a £100k+ household income, people would need over 10x on the income multiple and a £200k deposit.
Every single politician should read the article, because it rings true for everyone who has rented in London in the last 15 years and it's getting worse. We need more affordable rents, more houses for sale and to block foreign ownership of property as other major cities do across the world.
If, for example, you want meaningfully lower taxes, what should government meaningfully cut to pay for it?
(My answer, lots more housing linked to cities by trams to seriously drive down house prices. Delivered as quickly as can be done without actually putting people in negative equity.)
Illness is the most usual trigger, not a death, in my experience. Fluctuating energy costs don't help either.
I've also seen a few examples recently where the DWP have stopped UC or other benefit payments for no valid reason. The family will end up getting the payments back-paid but in the meantime, they are up sh*t-creek. What do they stop paying for: food? rent? fuel? council tax?
Maybe that means taxes rise....maybe the state does less but until politicians come clean and have this conversation with us and let us decide how can people decide.
Politicians dont want to have the conversation for two reasons
1) self interest they want reelection
2) They are worried we might decide we dont need some of their pet projects
It is one of the reasons my daughter left London. The prospect of spending ever increasing amounts of her income on renting something not very nice, with little chance of saving let alone having spare money for holidays etc, was one of the drivers. There are housing problems in the Lakes too, don't get me wrong. But she has been able to save money here with the money she made from her business, is now earning a good salary and has a more realistic chance of buying property than she ever would in London.
I would only add that curbing airBnB's and holiday lets is also needed in tourist areas. The stamp duty holiday Sunak brought in during Covid just pushed prices up for those buying holiday homes in the Lakes, which is not what is needed here.
It's almost as if big rents make it expensive to live there or something.
No wonder her leadership bid imploded.
If you are 100% against more places for people to sleep then you are 100% against population increase.
Whining about brownfield or empty flats in London owned by Chinese or whatever is bullshit. There are 2 possible policies.
1) Build hundreds of thousands of more homes. Every fucking year. For generations. Until the backlog is dealt with.
2) Build a wall round the UK and have negative population change.
Pick one.
If you don't build the homes, then you are racist - not building them means that the more recent population (more non-white) will have access to worse and more expensive housing stock. This is institutionally racist. By definition.
If you build a wall round the country, then you are simply racist.
Now London is certainly the most global city in Europe and close to par with NYC. So yes we need more new housing, especially high rise in London and more social housing but London is more expensive than it was a generation ago because it is a more exciting, more multi cultural, more prosperous and wealthy city, a global financial centre with more skycrapers and modern buildings (as well as the historic buildings that were always there)
My wife and I are very lucky that we both work in very high income careers, it shouldn't require that to afford to live in the city I grew up in and have our own family home. The rental market is out of control and it's time to just take a big axe to landlords (metaphorically) and if they don't like it they can sell.
In Victorian times, they would have said fuck this and built another 20 miles square of London.
Now we have the houses they built for the *poorer class of labourer* changing hands for £1.5 million.
I don't disagree with your comment: 'Labour oversaw the explosion of the cowboy buy to let landlord and the Tories haven't done nearly enough to force them out of the sector and fund local authorities to build new social rental properties' ...but it's a sad indictment of New Labour.
Just the kind of people who go round wearing loud shirts in built up areas?
Trouble is, if I put them on here OGH will ban me.
There is affordable housing in London, just not in central London but in less glamorous outer suburbia
We need a bigger pot.
For London there are three possibles -
1) build up
2) build out
3) use high speed public transport to bring more properties inside the 2 hour commute zone.
1) is being done - towers of tiny flats on every piece of land. They are build next to motorways now....
2) Blocked
3) Costs 11 kazillion and takes 20 years.
Think how it will inspire the children!