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The LDs use Lee Anderson’s words against him – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited February 2023 in General
imageThe LDs use Lee Anderson’s words against him – politicalbetting.com

According to the Observer, the LDs are planning to use the above poster in a digital ad blitz key areas in the south where elections are taking place on May 4th. Lee Anderson, of course, is deputy chairman of the Tory party and has a habit of making controversial statements like those that appear.

Read the full story here

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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,083
    edited February 2023
    First like Lee Anderson?
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,478
    Off topic, but timely: Lincoln's second inaugural, with its astonishing final paragarph:
    "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln's_second_inaugural_address

    The speech is short, but has an astonishing range.

    (I'd be interested to know whether your news organizations, like ours, most ignore his birthday, today.)
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.
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    The latest political polling conducted by Survation between 1st and 6th February reveals a slight decrease in Labour’s lead, now at 16% – a 2% drop from the previous poll conducted in November 2022. The top line could be seen as a small incremental positive for those minded of a narrow victory path for Rishi Sunak in the next general election, but the numbers below the line suggest otherwise.

    16 point lead with Survation

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    Taking a closer look at the economy, more respondents feel like neither Starmer nor Sunak would be able to achieve growth (31%), than those who trust Sunak to deliver (27%). Despite the rate of inflation beginning to slow down, the IMF predicts that Britain will be the worst performing major economy in 2023 with a 0.9% decrease in annual growth predictions, indicating a contraction of 0.6%, while the OBR already predicts a 1.3% contraction. There is little evidence indicating that the public is confident in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the promises he set out. The public’s lower levels of trust in the Conservative chancellor, Jeremy Hunt (28%) than Labour’s shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves (38%) further add to the notion that the economy as an issue is slipping away from the Conservatives.
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    Looking at personal approval, Starmer’s net likeability score sits at -6%, while Sunak’s is at -25%, further indicating that simply perceiving Labour’s lead as soft may be simplistic.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    Yep but will cost the Tories more votes (and way more seats) than his views will retain.
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    Does this make Starmer a prime minister in waiting? While there’s not a clamour for Labour’s leader at present – 39% believe that Starmer would make the best prime minister and 31% saying they don’t know, only 30% prefer Sunak – who has the inbuilt advantage for this question type of “actually being the Prime Minister” and able to spend his days looking Prime Ministerial from the appropriate platform of Number 10.

    https://www.survation.com/latest-data-shows-rishi-sunak-losing-2019-conservative-voters-lags-starmer-on-key-issues-for-the-public/

    In summary the Tories are fucked
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    I wonder what proportion of those who will be influenced by this approach actually vote
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    https://twitter.com/channel4/status/1624785401625079809

    When did George become the voice of reason?
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    DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    FPT
    China and UFOs:
    there's a need to factor in the release of the film Wandering Earth 2 at Chinese New Year three weeks ago. The teaser poster featured the slogan "Goodbye, solar system". Much of the filming took place at the huge Movie Metropolis in the city of Qingdao. Today a UFO was sighted over the sea near the city. It has a population of 7 million (metro area), but ... still ... everything is connected where large-scale influences over minds are concerned ...

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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832
    Late afternoon all :)

    I worry more hold Anderson's view than is generally suspected. Whether you want to call them the "silent majority" or the "shy Tories" I don't know but there is always a reticence to express views which are seen as "out of fashion". Of course, on forums like this, that's less of an issue among a mostly anonymous group and it may be that's true in similar places.but I still think that reticence exists.

    On a tangent, @Leon was talking about value and quoting Italy at 9/1 to beat England. The odds I saw had England at 1/14 with 50/1 the Tie.

    At Warwick yesterday, JONBON went off 1/16 to beat his sole rival, CALICO, (also 9/1) in a two mile novice chase.

    A £100 win double on the two jollies returns £113.84 (so not even 1/7). I'm not sure anyone taking the bet would have found either experience wholly stress free for all neither result was really in doubt.

    I suppose the question is does 9/1 represent value in a two-horse race (actually with the tie a three horse race). The book on a 1/14, 9/1, 50/1 tissue is 105.33% so not bad at all and certainly better than is often the case in bigger field races where the book can be 110% or higher.

    The book on 1/16 and 9/1 is only 104.07% so I suppose you could argue the 9/1 on CALICO to win at Warwick was better value than the 9/1 on Italy to beat England but it's academic (or statistical).
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    https://twitter.com/channel4/status/1624785401625079809

    When did George become the voice of reason?

    He’s set on a brand rehabilitation effort.
    Most people now think austerity was an error for the British economy, both in conception and execution.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832
    Not sure if picked up on the last thread but the early exit poll suggests a good CDU result in the Berlin State election but with the FDP unlikely to beat the 5% threshold, it may well be the SPD-Green-Linke coalition will survive albeit with a reduced majority.

    The latest seat projection has the SPD (31), Greens (31) and Linke (22) meaning 84 of the 147 seats in the Landtag. The CDU will be the strongest group with 47 seats leaving 16 to Alternative.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    eek said:

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    Yep but will cost the Tories more votes (and way more seats) than his views will retain.
    This is what the Lee-fans, of which there are a surprising amount on here, don’t seem to realise.

    They think there is a latent pool of voters who will come flocking back if the Tories can be just a little more nasty.
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    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    I quite like muesli, costs more than 30p though.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    eek said:

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    Yep but will cost the Tories more votes (and way more seats) than his views will retain.
    Those Cameronites have already gone. Just look at those here on PB for evidence. It is the "Good old Boris" types that the Tories appear to be relying on to avoid a wipeout.
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    If we are about to be taken over by aliens, how will that affect Ed Davey's chances in the Somerton and Frome by-election?
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    If we are about to be taken over by aliens, how will that affect Ed Davey's chances in the Somerton and Frome by-election?

    it'll be out of this world...
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    eek said:

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    Yep but will cost the Tories more votes (and way more seats) than his views will retain.
    Depdends on whether you think the 2019 strategy was the start of something clever, or something a bit foolish.

    Red Wall theory was that there were a lot of older voters who had bought their council houses in northern towns who historically hadn't voted Conservative but should have. The trick to getting them on the blue side was to chuck them some red meat on social issues.

    In 2019, this looked brilliant, because the younger, more liberal Conservatives didn't really have anywhere else to go. Thanks Jeremy. So it was a big, potenitally decisive vote grab.

    From the perspective of 2023, it looks less smart, because posh snobby liberal elite voters (the sort who have been Conservative in most previous generations) are driven away by Anderson-style politics. And it's not obvious that's a good trade for the Conservatives. That's before considering that the gap between the socially conservative rhetoric on scroungers, criminals and boat people and the incompetent reality. It's quite possible that by 2024, the Conservatives will be pleasing approximately nobody.
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    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
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    Off topic, but timely: Lincoln's second inaugural, with its astonishing final paragarph:
    "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln's_second_inaugural_address

    The speech is short, but has an astonishing range.

    (I'd be interested to know whether your news organizations, like ours, most ignore his birthday, today.)

    I can't say I've noticed anything about him in the news, but then it is hardly news. Lincoln does have a statue by Parliament.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,867

    https://twitter.com/channel4/status/1624785401625079809

    When did George become the voice of reason?

    When Zippy took over the Conservative Party in 2019 and proceeded to Bungle everything.
    Apparently Zippy had to be thrown away and replaced regularly as the puppet got very 'grubby' in his adventures with Jeffrey and George
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,118

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    That’s the point
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    If we are about to be taken over by aliens, how will that affect Ed Davey's chances in the Somerton and Frome by-election?

    Depends how many potholes the invasion creates.
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    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
    To be fair, as @HYUFD points out repeatedly, the Conservative fight against the LDs, Greens, Residents and Independents in the south may actually not produce a huge number of seat changes and perhaps some gains for the Conservatives (I wouldn't be wholly convinced).

    The real battle is where the Conservatives are facing Labour - it's often forgotten Labour made net losses last time of around 100 seats and polled about the same as the Conservatives. However, with a 16-20% poll lead, you'd expect a big swing to Labour in this round and it may well be the Conservatives are trying to stem the flow of losses in the Midlands and North with Anderson's appointment.
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    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    If we are about to be taken over by aliens, how will that affect Ed Davey's chances in the Somerton and Frome by-election?

    Depends how many potholes the invasion creates.
    Aliens, winning here!
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    stodge said:

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
    To be fair, as @HYUFD points out repeatedly, the Conservative fight against the LDs, Greens, Residents and Independents in the south may actually not produce a huge number of seat changes and perhaps some gains for the Conservatives (I wouldn't be wholly convinced).

    The real battle is where the Conservatives are facing Labour - it's often forgotten Labour made net losses last time of around 100 seats and polled about the same as the Conservatives. However, with a 16-20% poll lead, you'd expect a big swing to Labour in this round and it may well be the Conservatives are trying to stem the flow of losses in the Midlands and North with Anderson's appointment.
    The North has already said goodbye to the Tories.

    They had one chance to offer change and they have failed. Even on a bad night for Labour the Red Wall is theirs once again.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045
    He's the deputy chairman not deputy leader. Lee Anderson isn't really my cup of tea but a lot of this stuff feels like sanctimony. Suggests that 8 years out of government the Lib Dems are still piddling around in the shallow end. Hard to believe I was someone who voted for them enthusiastically in 2010.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,948
    edited February 2023
    I doubt most 2019 Conservative voters would disagree with any of the statements Anderson made. In redwall marginal seats and Leave voting Tory safe seats Anderson's appointment may even boost the Tory voteshare.

    Where they may go down less well is the smaller number of very prosperous, highly educated Tory bluewall Remain seats, especially in West London and the Home counties.
    Those are the voters the LDs will be targeting with this poster
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    HYUFD said:

    I doubt most 2019 Conservative voters would disagree with any of the statements Anderson made. In redwall marginal seats and Leave voting Tory safe seats Anderson's appointment may even boost the Tory voteshare.

    Where they may go down less well is the smaller number of very prosperous, highly educated Tory Bluewall seats, especially in West London and the Home counties.
    Those are the voters the LDs will be targeting with this poster

    I think you assume the Red Wall is one type of people that will vote Tory because they did last time.

    This is the same arrogance that Labour got into in 2019.

    You'll have had 5 years to make a change, you've made it worse.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
    It’s not poorly understood.
    The argument is that it doesn’t and won’t work.

    Boris didn’t win the red wall by kicking nurses who use food banks.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Next Tory Leader?
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    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
    The wound has obviously festered.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045
    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?
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    What the Red Wall wanted was levelling up.

    The Tories have not delivered it.

    The Red Wall voted for Ed M, Brown and Corbyn 2017. They will clearly vote for Starmer.

    Why would they vote for a billionaire banker who has not solved any of their problems?
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    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    Leave because the British public are dumb as shit
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,948

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt most 2019 Conservative voters would disagree with any of the statements Anderson made. In redwall marginal seats and Leave voting Tory safe seats Anderson's appointment may even boost the Tory voteshare.

    Where they may go down less well is the smaller number of very prosperous, highly educated Tory Bluewall seats, especially in West London and the Home counties.
    Those are the voters the LDs will be targeting with this poster

    I think you assume the Red Wall is one type of people that will vote Tory because they did last time.

    This is the same arrogance that Labour got into in 2019.

    You'll have had 5 years to make a change, you've made it worse.
    No, I said they are marginal Leave seats not safe Tory Leave seats like those in most of Essex or Lincolnshire for instance
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
    The wound has obviously festered.
    Not really.
    Like most normal people might be, I’m just glad that I look to be vindicated.

    Sadly you look to have been wrong on this occasion.

    We will see.
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    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt most 2019 Conservative voters would disagree with any of the statements Anderson made. In redwall marginal seats and Leave voting Tory safe seats Anderson's appointment may even boost the Tory voteshare.

    Where they may go down less well is the smaller number of very prosperous, highly educated Tory Bluewall seats, especially in West London and the Home counties.
    Those are the voters the LDs will be targeting with this poster

    I think you assume the Red Wall is one type of people that will vote Tory because they did last time.

    This is the same arrogance that Labour got into in 2019.

    You'll have had 5 years to make a change, you've made it worse.
    No, I said they are marginal Leave seats not safe Tory Leave seats like those in most of Essex or Lincolnshire for instance
    On MRP they’re safer than in 1997. You did that.
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    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
    The wound has obviously festered.
    Not really.
    Like most normal people might be, I’m just glad that I look to be vindicated.

    Sadly you look to have been wrong on this occasion.

    We will see.
    I will have been wrong?

    Any record of this piddliest of predictions and the sling and arrows (some apparently from me) that were flung at you?
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    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    Depends on how the question is framed;

    One topic, two different pollsters (@yougov and @PeoplePolling), two different question wordings, two very different results:

    Either only a third or over half of people would oppose the UK withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights


    https://twitter.com/PollingUnPacked/status/1624431399489994752

    For all the hype, I doubt that even a Conservative government would ask the question, because of the risk of having to implement a "Leave" result.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
    The wound has obviously festered.
    Not really.
    Like most normal people might be, I’m just glad that I look to be vindicated.

    Sadly you look to have been wrong on this occasion.

    We will see.
    I will have been wrong?

    Any record of this piddliest of predictions and the sling and arrows (some apparently from me) that were flung at you?
    The wound has obviously festered.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    As with any campaign like this, there is a risk that the party will discover it is out of touch with its own voters.

    The Lib Dems haven't....
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back

    Must be desperate to ask for Brown's backing.
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    Well Alexander is a Brownite so yes I am sure he wants a job with Keir.

    As for Scottish Labour, I am told that yes they are very confident now of winning at least a dozen seats.

    FPT:

    I wrote some posts on here about two years ago suggesting that Labour should target seven seats in Scotland and was roundly scorned by the Scotterati.
    The wound has obviously festered.
    Not really.
    Like most normal people might be, I’m just glad that I look to be vindicated.

    Sadly you look to have been wrong on this occasion.

    We will see.
    I will have been wrong?

    Any record of this piddliest of predictions and the sling and arrows (some apparently from me) that were flung at you?
    The wound has obviously festered.
    A no would have been fine.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    What the Red Wall wanted was levelling up.

    The Tories have not delivered it.

    The Red Wall voted for Ed M, Brown and Corbyn 2017. They will clearly vote for Starmer.

    Why would they vote for a billionaire banker who has not solved any of their problems?

    What’s interesting is what will Starmer offer? Part of the reason the red wall collapsed is labours failure over the years to reward its loyal voters. In Scotland they took the voters for granted until the dam burst, and the SNP took over. In the red wall Labour have had similar issues.
    I’m not saying they won’t return to Labour - the next election is likely a get shot of the Tories election as much as anything else. But I do think Labour also need to think what levelling up looks like.
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    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back

    Seems SLAB think Midlothian is very winnable too.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,118

    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back

    Must be desperate to ask for Brown's backing.
    Successfully asked for Brown’s backing.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    As with any campaign like this, there is a risk that the party will discover it is out of touch with its own voters.

    To be fair, there aren't many libdem voters for them to scare off.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    https://twitter.com/channel4/status/1624785401625079809

    When did George become the voice of reason?

    How come he has no grey hair?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
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    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045
    Foxy said:

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
    The trouble is that the migrant boats issue needs dealing with. I don't think it is properly understood the legal revolution we have engaged in over recent decades. If people feel disenchanted by legal rulings that they have no means of being able to address, the likely reaction is eternal populism.
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    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
    It’s not poorly understood.
    The argument is that it doesn’t and won’t work.

    Boris didn’t win the red wall by kicking nurses who use food banks.
    Quite. This "targetting" argument would be great if the stuff went out under sp & c embargo to the targets, for their eyes only. It doesn't, we can all see it. There was the ghost of an argument for those of us who said No more tory voting after Johnson that Sunak isn't Johnson, isn't truss, isn't markedly worse than Starmer, went to a good school, etc. He knocks that firmly on the head by countenancing this shit.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,314

    As with any campaign like this, there is a risk that the party will discover it is out of touch with its own voters.

    That document looks like something Lee Anderson and the Tories would be delighted to see put through peoples' doors.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    edited February 2023
    BREAKING: The FAA has temporarily closed down the airspace over the northern part of Lake Michigan, due to "department of defense activity." Monica Alba reports the latest.


    https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1624835853385142278?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg


    🚨#BREAKING: The FAA has closed the airspace over parts of Lake Michigan, citing national defense.

    NORCOM advised US Rep Matt Rosendale that there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    HAPPENING NOW: Eyewitness reports claim military jets flying in formation over Gary, Indiana, heading towards Lake Michigan. #FAA
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    And you’re all talking about … Lee Anderson

    Lol
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    Leon said:

    BREAKING: The FAA has temporarily closed down the airspace over the northern part of Lake Michigan, due to "department of defense activity." Monica Alba reports the latest.


    https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1624835853385142278?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg


    🚨#BREAKING: The FAA has closed the airspace over parts of Lake Michigan, citing national defense.

    NORCOM advised US Rep Matt Rosendale that there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly.

    Wait: they're saying that aliens wouldn't be anomalous????
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    Foxy said:

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
    The trouble is that the migrant boats issue needs dealing with. I don't think it is properly understood the legal revolution we have engaged in over recent decades. If people feel disenchanted by legal rulings that they have no means of being able to address, the likely reaction is eternal populism.
    The boats issue can be dealt with by having processing centres and other methods of application in France, then provide them with ferry tickets. It would be a helluva lot cheaper, safer and more humane. It doesn't tickle the fancies of the core Tory/ukip vote though, never mind the Daily Mail and it's mouth breathing patrons.
  • Options

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    It's amazing this seems so poorly understood.
    It’s not poorly understood.
    The argument is that it doesn’t and won’t work.

    Boris didn’t win the red wall by kicking nurses who use food banks.
    Quite. This "targetting" argument would be great if the stuff went out under sp & c embargo to the targets, for their eyes only. It doesn't, we can all see it. There was the ghost of an argument for those of us who said No more tory voting after Johnson that Sunak isn't Johnson, isn't truss, isn't markedly worse than Starmer, went to a good school, etc. He knocks that firmly on the head by countenancing this shit.
    Microtargeting through social media was part of Cummings's secret sauce to get the 2016 win. Find out what issue tickles each voter then tell them the thing they wanted to hear.
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    As with any campaign like this, there is a risk that the party will discover it is out of touch with its own voters.

    That document looks like something Lee Anderson and the Tories would be delighted to see put through peoples' doors.
    See my post 544pm
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,314
    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    The piece of literature doesn't accuse hypocrisy though (presumably because the Lib Dems also support the MP's payrise), it is just the collected outrageous opinions of Lee Anderson, none of which seem particularly likely to outrage anyone.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,100
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    And you’re all talking about … Lee Anderson

    Lol

    "Any publicity is good publicity"?

    In that case the Tory success story continues - Liz Truss, Krasi Kwarteng, Nadhim Zahawi, Dominic Raab ...
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    Foxy said:

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
    The trouble is that the migrant boats issue needs dealing with. I don't think it is properly understood the legal revolution we have engaged in over recent decades. If people feel disenchanted by legal rulings that they have no means of being able to address, the likely reaction is eternal populism.
    The boats issue can be dealt with by having processing centres and other methods of application in France, then provide them with ferry tickets. It would be a helluva lot cheaper, safer and more humane. It doesn't tickle the fancies of the core Tory/ukip vote though, never mind the Daily Mail and it's mouth breathing patrons.
    What happens if someone from, say, Albania or Egypt decides that his odds of being accepted at a processing centre in France are fairly slim, so might as well cross the Channel anyway? Or he does try the processing centre and gets rejected - are we then going to be detaining and deporting these people from France to their home countries?
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    As with any campaign like this, there is a risk that the party will discover it is out of touch with its own voters.

    The Lib Dems haven't....
    ...you mean the Lib Dems aren't....
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,471
    I don't think these tactics being used against Lee Anderson will work in Red Wall areas. They may work elsewhere.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    Yep this is the real point. Now that he has moved from being a gobby back bencher to Deputy Chairman of the Tory party, the Lib Dems and others can quite rightly use his words to hold up a mirror to the whole Tory party. They don't have top go near his constituency nor pay any attention to how this influences results in Ashfield. They can simply point to him as the new face of the Tory party and ask if that is how voters in southern seats want their country to be governed.
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    Foxy said:

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
    The trouble is that the migrant boats issue needs dealing with. I don't think it is properly understood the legal revolution we have engaged in over recent decades. If people feel disenchanted by legal rulings that they have no means of being able to address, the likely reaction is eternal populism.
    The boats issue can be dealt with by having processing centres and other methods of application in France, then provide them with ferry tickets. It would be a helluva lot cheaper, safer and more humane. It doesn't tickle the fancies of the core Tory/ukip vote though, never mind the Daily Mail and it's mouth breathing patrons.
    What happens if someone from, say, Albania or Egypt decides that his odds of being accepted at a processing centre in France are fairly slim, so might as well cross the Channel anyway? Or he does try the processing centre and gets rejected - are we then going to be detaining and deporting these people from France to their home countries?
    ...maybe...that's up to the French.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    Plenty of people agree with what he is saying - both the kind of people who are just nasty fucks and always have been, and the kind who have been gaslit so hard that they now agree with GBeebies "news" coverage.

    Problem is that they are thinly spread. He thinks he is targeting the red wall. Great - I spent 40 years living in various red wall seats. Anderson used to be Labour. He's one of these ultra-zealous Lab>Con converts (and they so often are) and thinks his voters feel the same.

    His target voters voted Tory once in their lives. They unlike him are not zealots. So if he thinks "burn the nurses" is the right approach to stay elected I fear he is in for a nasty shock. As the red wall polling suggests.

    Problem is that so much of the 2019 intake of Tory MPs are so fucking thick. Anderson is so massively think he can neither see nor hear the proper Tory party laughing down their sneering noses at him.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    A lot depends on what happens with the Ashfield Independents vote, but on current polling he loses his seat to Labour. Vox pops in his own constituency don't seem to be very favourable either.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/12/hes-a-bit-of-a-prat-voters-in-ashfield-turn-on-lee-anderson?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    Is America completely, constantly and weirdly losing its shit over…. Balloons??

    This is the actual Representative in Congress for Montana


    “I am in constant communication with NORCOM and they have just advised me that they have confidence there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly. I am waiting now to receive visual confirmation. Our nation’s security is my priority.”



    https://twitter.com/reprosendale/status/1624824597911674880?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,739
    The Lib Dem poster should have just stuck to the top left and bottom right statements . Nuisance tenants I doubt get much sympathy from the public and the death penalty support isn’t really that controversial for quite a chunk of the public.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    Plenty of people agree with what he is saying - both the kind of people who are just nasty fucks and always have been, and the kind who have been gaslit so hard that they now agree with GBeebies "news" coverage.

    Problem is that they are thinly spread. He thinks he is targeting the red wall. Great - I spent 40 years living in various red wall seats. Anderson used to be Labour. He's one of these ultra-zealous Lab>Con converts (and they so often are) and thinks his voters feel the same.

    His target voters voted Tory once in their lives. They unlike him are not zealots. So if he thinks "burn the nurses" is the right approach to stay elected I fear he is in for a nasty shock. As the red wall polling suggests.

    Problem is that so much of the 2019 intake of Tory MPs are so fucking thick. Anderson is so massively think he can neither see nor hear the proper Tory party laughing down their sneering noses at him.
    Totally agree, though I wouldn't swear.
    :wink:
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    ‘Starting to feel like every literally time I open up Twitter there is a new unidentified object spotted somewhere & jets are being scrambled.‘

    https://twitter.com/billfoxla/status/1624834702304772096?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg

    Brilliantly mad
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Anderson himself tweets

    Lib Dems new attack poster.

    Please drop me 48,000 off and I will deliver them myself in Ashfield.

    #winninghere

    Its a fascinating bit of politics. Anderson thinks there are votes in his own constituency attacking his own constituents. One thing that all of these Tory MPs do is have their SPADs block everyone - and I do mean everyone - who calls them out on social media.

    So he probably sees people saying "good for you Lee" and thinks there's 48,000 who agree with him. Whereas in reality there's 48 agreeing with him and he's blocked from hearing from everyone else.
    There are lots of people who voted for Lee, who agree with him.

    There are also probably quite a few who have voted for him in the past, and who (for example) feel that his views on nurses and food banks would be a little less hypocritical if MPs hadn't just voted themselves a large pay rise.

    But this isn't really about Lee. It's about libdems holding onto council seats in the south east of England.
    Plenty of people agree with what he is saying - both the kind of people who are just nasty fucks and always have been, and the kind who have been gaslit so hard that they now agree with GBeebies "news" coverage.

    Problem is that they are thinly spread. He thinks he is targeting the red wall. Great - I spent 40 years living in various red wall seats. Anderson used to be Labour. He's one of these ultra-zealous Lab>Con converts (and they so often are) and thinks his voters feel the same.

    His target voters voted Tory once in their lives. They unlike him are not zealots. So if he thinks "burn the nurses" is the right approach to stay elected I fear he is in for a nasty shock. As the red wall polling suggests.

    Problem is that so much of the 2019 intake of Tory MPs are so fucking thick. Anderson is so massively think he can neither see nor hear the proper Tory party laughing down their sneering noses at him.
    Totally agree, though I wouldn't swear.
    :wink:
    About Anderson? I think its mandatory.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,869
    FFS these Martian fucks are attacking URUGUAY


    NEW - Uruguayan Air Force is investigating a sighting of "flashing lights in the sky" over Termas de Almirón.

    fau.mil.uy/es/articulos/4…

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1624832009431310339?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg

    What did they ever do apart from eat their own rugby team?
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    Leon said:

    Is America completely, constantly and weirdly losing its shit over…. Balloons??

    This is the actual Representative in Congress for Montana


    “I am in constant communication with NORCOM and they have just advised me that they have confidence there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly. I am waiting now to receive visual confirmation. Our nation’s security is my priority.”



    https://twitter.com/reprosendale/status/1624824597911674880?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg

    It's very odd. I've seen a lot of speculation on Twitter that this is due to a change in US policy from "monitor" to "remove", rather than there being any more balloons/drones/rigid airships/objects than usual, which broadly seems sensible to me, but I don't understand why they're being so public about it or why the US was tolerating these objects beforehand (especially if they pose a risk to civilian planes, as the US is claiming).
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,249

    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back

    Must be desperate to ask for Brown's backing.
    How dare a former Prime Minister and lifelong party member back people to be selected as candidates for the party! Bringing politics into politics…. A disgrace I tell you…..

  • Options

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    He's projecting an image of the Tories that predates Cameron, maybe would be more in tune with the Tory party of the 50s.
    I would suggest that will lose them votes overall with today's electorate. A net negative for them, is he the best that Rishi could come up with?
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    In my view this is a great turnout driver for the LDs. Anderson represents everything that LDs oppose and this is a good peg to get attention. The locals are all about turnout and Anderson represents everything that LDs abhor.

    Mone, Zahawi, Hancock - not so much? Who you choose as the ultimate political villain say a lot about you.
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    Leon said:

    HAPPENING NOW: Eyewitness reports claim military jets flying in formation over Gary, Indiana, heading towards Lake Michigan. #FAA

    https://www.flightradar24.com/43.01,-86.83/7
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    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: The FAA has temporarily closed down the airspace over the northern part of Lake Michigan, due to "department of defense activity." Monica Alba reports the latest.


    https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1624835853385142278?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg


    🚨#BREAKING: The FAA has closed the airspace over parts of Lake Michigan, citing national defense.

    NORCOM advised US Rep Matt Rosendale that there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly.

    Wait: they're saying that aliens wouldn't be anomalous????
    The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy recommends that aliens visiting earth should land first in New York, where their presence will be little noticed or remarked upon. They can then move unobtrusively on to other part of the country once they have adjusted a little to the strange ways of the locals.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,249

    Foxy said:

    If we had a referendum on the ECHR what would the result be?

    A way to kick the government, because that is what referendums are.

    The other result will be that the electorate don't understand properly what the consequences of their votes are.
    The trouble is that the migrant boats issue needs dealing with. I don't think it is properly understood the legal revolution we have engaged in over recent decades. If people feel disenchanted by legal rulings that they have no means of being able to address, the likely reaction is eternal populism.
    The boats issue can be dealt with by having processing centres and other methods of application in France, then provide them with ferry tickets. It would be a helluva lot cheaper, safer and more humane. It doesn't tickle the fancies of the core Tory/ukip vote though, never mind the Daily Mail and it's mouth breathing patrons.
    What happens if someone from, say, Albania or Egypt decides that his odds of being accepted at a processing centre in France are fairly slim, so might as well cross the Channel anyway? Or he does try the processing centre and gets rejected - are we then going to be detaining and deporting these people from France to their home countries?
    ...maybe...that's up to the French.
    Some simple solutions

    1) take Calais back from the French. The. The migrants will be in the U.K.
    2) anyone crossing the channel illegally and declaring they have no papers is automatically deemed to have enlisted in the Royal Navy.
    3) anyone employing an illegal is subject to a £100k fine, immigrant gets half and indefinite leave to remain.

    Which do you like best?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    edited February 2023
    I can't wait for the first reporter to ask a government minister what the government's position on the Great Balloon War is. I also look forward to hearing the opposition spokesman explaining why the government is wrong and how much more Labour would spend to thwart this floating menace.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,249

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: The FAA has temporarily closed down the airspace over the northern part of Lake Michigan, due to "department of defense activity." Monica Alba reports the latest.


    https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1624835853385142278?s=61&t=HLBQiVuARMV19G9y6lF4wg


    🚨#BREAKING: The FAA has closed the airspace over parts of Lake Michigan, citing national defense.

    NORCOM advised US Rep Matt Rosendale that there IS an object and it WAS NOT an anomaly.

    Wait: they're saying that aliens wouldn't be anomalous????
    The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy recommends that aliens visiting earth should land first in New York, where their presence will be little noticed or remarked upon. They can then move unobtrusively on to other part of the country once they have adjusted a little to the strange ways of the locals.
    Elon - “Don’t worry, just some of my 👽 🛸 friends of mine stopping by …”
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    🔴 MIDLOTHIAN: former Gordon Brown No 10 adviser Kirsty McNeill picked as Labour candidate. Brown openly backed both McNeill & Douglas Alexander is this dual selection process.

    New Labour is making a comeback thank God. We need the talent back

    Must be desperate to ask for Brown's backing.
    How dare a former Prime Minister and lifelong party member back people to be selected as candidates for the party! Bringing politics into politics…. A disgrace I tell you…..

    Brown was bonkers
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    glw said:

    I can't wait for the first reporter to ask a government minister what the government's position on the Great Balloon War is. I also look forward to hearing the opposition spokesman explaining why the government is wrong and how much more Labour would spend to thwart this floating menace.

    Wasn't H.G. Wells' The War In The Air basically World War Balloon?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,948
    edited February 2023

    Anderson is there to tickle the tummy of a slightly different demographic than museli munching LibDem switchers in South West London.

    He's projecting an image of the Tories that predates Cameron, maybe would be more in tune with the Tory party of the 50s.
    I would suggest that will lose them votes overall with today's electorate. A net negative for them, is he the best that Rishi could come up with?
    Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 appealing to North London Guardian readers and the upper middle classes. He won a majority in 2015 appealing more to the likes of Anderson as well as the upper middle classes. Boris won a bigger majority in 2019 appealing to UKIP voters from 2015 and Labour Leave voters and won almost all the likes of Anderson as well as most of the upper middle classes
This discussion has been closed.