YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead remains three points: CON 35%, LAB 38%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%
Onward we march, further we go, not knowing when we will be freed of the burden.
here you go friend
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Have you found those stats yet or did you just make them up?
The silence is deafening
It'll take you a few minutes to find the polling data tables from Mori or YouGov (a few minutes more for flipping ICM!). Heck you, could even come back and dazzle us with some stats of your own, poww!
To recap, it shows that Labour are about 4 times as popular as the Fruitcakes amongst working class voters, Tories 2-3 times as popular. Lib Dems are about as popular amongst "the WC" as UKIP.
Although UKIP are doing fairly well Vs the Greens amongst the working class, about twice as popular.
Every single person in the UK would be better off under this system.
Someone earning - say - £4m a year would be £1m better off.
Now, I may be missing something, but why wouldn't we want a system where every single person in the country paid less tax?
It does seem weird to think that Public Sector employees are paid out of a fund derived from tax collected from others, and those wages are then taxed again!
That's an excellent observation. 100% of my income has already, in effect, been subject to taxation. Why the hell should I be bloody taxed on it again? Bloody governments.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
Will the teachers like it ;-)
Hmm, let me guess...
I do sometimes think that though the fact that teachers will dislike something does not mean it is good idea, given the teachers already hate Gove he and Cameron may as well push through everything they can - it's not like they can get the teachers back on their side, or convince them their plans are good at this point, so if they have an idea for an unpopular change they think is deserving, give it a go.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
By the way, and despite this somewhat snippy comment, the UKIP tax page is well worth reading. They are absolutely right that excessive taxation of work makes marginal businesses uneconomic and leads to increased unemployment.
One has to wonder when their more elderly supporters will get round to realising that the flip side of their policy is a massive tax hike for pensioners.
5. "How many UKIPers will die of old age before an EU referendum".
If people are going to pose a question like that in a broadsheet then - how many SNP voters are going to die shooting up heroin with pox-covered needles huddled caked in their own shit in Glasgow slums before an independence vote?
Politicalbetting, classy as ever. A reputable betting site or a haven for far right eccentrics?
Let me say a word for Oliver Cromwell. He was better for England than either the first or second Charlies.
It's an argument worth having, whatever the intentions of the three, or whether the impact they had is what they would have liked.
And of course England, at least, during his rule did rise in power at home and abroad. Charles I I tend to think of as inadequate to meet the challenges he was faced with, and Charles II had a comparitively much easier time of things after the war weariness of the preceding 20 years.
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead remains three points: CON 35%, LAB 38%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%
Onward we march, further we go, not knowing when we will be freed of the burden.
here you go friend
With a huge selection of aluminium football goal posts, full size steel football goalposts, samba mini-goals, five-a-side goals, plastic goals, portable goals, home goals and football goal & net accessories available to buy online at great prices.
www.footballgoalposts.co.uk
Have you found those stats yet or did you just make them up?
The silence is deafening
It'll take you a few minutes to find the polling data tables from Mori or YouGov (a few minutes more for flipping ICM!). Heck you, could even come back and dazzle us with some stats of your own, poww!
To recap, it shows that Labour are about 4 times as popular as the Fruitcakes amongst working class voters, Tories 2-3 times as popular. Lib Dems are about as popular amongst "the WC" as UKIP.
Although UKIP are doing fairly well Vs the Greens amongst the working class, about twice as popular.
Every single person in the UK would be better off under this system.
Someone earning - say - £4m a year would be £1m better off.
Now, I may be missing something, but why wouldn't we want a system where every single person in the country paid less tax?
Someone earning under the current threshold would not be better off and, presumably, would lose even more access to services and benefits, both of which would have to be cut massively.
My guess at ukips tax rates would be
No tax on min wage 25% up to £100k 40% above that
A banker earning 90k pays the same rate as their gardener?
Che Farage strikes again.
Suppose it's only a "guess" though. Which UKIP supporter cares about their tax policy, foreigners is where the action is!
Immigration policy not foreigners
Most ukip politicians wives seem to be foreigners
Yeah if the gardener is earning more than the minimum wage, so what?
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
I can't see the detail but I suspect it's based on something like this:
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being mroe suitable.
I do like that 'Cameron faces Tory revolt' takes up such a small portion of the front page of the Telegraph. Admittedly, it isn't very newsworthy, being the natural state most of the time.
Always keep in mind that the sheer overwhelming incompetence of those who are supposedly in charge of things while the boss is busy is certain to make things worse.
The tory whips have hardly covered themselves in glory so far this parliament (like for the Syria vote) so if it all goes pear-shaped tomorrow it will be a failure not just of the leadership but of those Cammie charged with trying to keep order in the tory party.
Let me say a word for Oliver Cromwell. He was better for England than either the first or second Charlies.
It's an argument worth having, whatever the intentions of the three, or whether the impact they had is what they would have liked.
And of course England, at least, during his rule did rise in power at home and abroad. Charles I I tend to think of as inadequate to meet the challenges he was faced with, and Charles II had a comparitively much easier time of things after the war weariness of the preceding 20 years.
Oliver was the guy that laid the framework for the first Modern (Model) English (later British) Army. Cammo is the guy who is trashing it.
By the way, and despite this somewhat snippy comment, the UKIP tax page is well worth reading. They are absolutely right that excessive taxation of work makes marginal businesses uneconomic and leads to increased unemployment.
One has to wonder when their more elderly supporters will get round to realising that the flip side of their policy is a massive tax hike for pensioners.
They don't care, Richard. UKIP supporters have one major thing on their mind and that's what motivates them.
Everything else - including the EU - are just fuzzy rages, flavours in the stew, things that they sense UKIP share their "values" on, but not something that gets them shouting at the telly like the Big Thing.
By the way, and despite this somewhat snippy comment, the UKIP tax page is well worth reading. They are absolutely right that excessive taxation of work makes marginal businesses uneconomic and leads to increased unemployment.
One has to wonder when their more elderly supporters will get round to realising that the flip side of their policy is a massive tax hike for pensioners.
They don't care, Richard. UKIP supporters have one major thing on their mind and that's what motivates them.
Everything else - including the EU - are just fuzzy rages, flavours in the stew, things that they sense UKIP share their "values" on, but not something that gets them shouting at the telly like the Big Thing.
Let me say a word for Oliver Cromwell. He was better for England than either the first or second Charlies.
It's an argument worth having, whatever the intentions of the three, or whether the impact they had is what they would have liked.
And of course England, at least, during his rule did rise in power at home and abroad. Charles I I tend to think of as inadequate to meet the challenges he was faced with, and Charles II had a comparitively much easier time of things after the war weariness of the preceding 20 years.
Oliver was the guy that laid the framework for the first Modern (Model) English (later British) Army. Cammo is the guy who is trashing it.
I don't know enough on the latter, but I wouldn't argue the former. A very important development.
Interestingly, I recall a historian (possibly Mark Kishlansky) positing that the origins of our party based politics had its roots in the New Model Army, when there was a purge (in 1647 I think) of the officer ranks and representatives, marking a clear delineation between the loose political factions of the era. I know not everyone agrees with that hypothesis (and I am half remembering it years after the fact), but if true I'm not sure if laying that part of the framework of this nation was good or bad. The factions of the parliaments thereafter were still far more political interests than firm groupings though.
By the way, and despite this somewhat snippy comment, the UKIP tax page is well worth reading. They are absolutely right that excessive taxation of work makes marginal businesses uneconomic and leads to increased unemployment.
One has to wonder when their more elderly supporters will get round to realising that the flip side of their policy is a massive tax hike for pensioners.
They don't care, Richard. UKIP supporters have one major thing on their mind and that's what motivates them.
Everything else - including the EU - are just fuzzy rages, flavours in the stew, things that they sense UKIP share their "values" on, but not something that gets them shouting at the telly like the Big Thing.
You really don't understand much at all do you?
Addicted to left wing dogma
Indeed, that's why the likes of Hugh do not understand why they are losing votes to UKIP
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
There's something great about being a kid and having all summer off though. You never get that again in your life. I have great memories of endless summers.
I do like that 'Cameron faces Tory revolt' takes up such a small portion of the front page of the Telegraph. Admittedly, it isn't very newsworthy, being the natural state most of the time.
Always keep in mind that the sheer overwhelming incompetence of those who are supposedly in charge of things while the boss is busy is certain to make things worse.
The tory whips have hardly covered themselves in glory so far this parliament (like for the Syria vote) so if it all goes pear-shaped tomorrow it will be a failure not just of the leadership but of those Cammie charged with trying to keep order in the tory party.
Quite so. I do give Cameron a lot of slack, but despite the challenges he has had to deal with, and with less inducements to offer the dissenters due to presence of the coalition, he and his whips have been bloody useless at party discipline. Folks like Carswell can try and paint that as a victory for parliament at times, and there may even be some truth to that, but at the end of the day if Cameron's inability to control his own party sets the mood for a resurgence of the legislature over the executive, that is not something he would want to be known for, or his successors would thank him for, so he cannot be lauded for that happening, if it does.
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Thank God my kids will all be done with school by then.
Better just to have before and after school clubs for those that need them. This seems brutal.
Can you imagine the carnage come 3.00 pm, when they've already been there seven hours? It will be horrible. Kids need free time. They also need long holidays to recharge. Nine hours a day for 45 weeks a year is just punitive. Presumably Gove is floating this to get a reaction from teachers.
Thank God my kids will all be done with school by then.
Better just to have before and after school clubs for those that need them. This seems brutal.
Can you imagine the carnage come 3.00 pm, when they've already been there seven hours? It will be horrible. Kids need free time. They also need long holidays to recharge. Nine hours a day for 45 weeks a year is just punitive. Presumably Gove is floating this to get a reaction from teachers.
My boy seems to learn the most when he is playing with his Lego or Meccano or just talking to grown ups casually. His vocabulary rockets after a holiday with friends because he gets lots of new adults to talk to.
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard 25 mins How can @paddyashdown call @MaajidNawaz views 'minority'. It's those who seek to shackle free speech who are a loud minority
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
There's something great about being a kid and having all summer off though. You never get that again in your life. I have great memories of endless summers.
Maybe. 6-7 weeks just feels too long, you've got to restart all over again. More breaks but shorter perhaps, with a longer one of 3 in the summer, max of 4? That's plenty of time to completely unwind but not get completely out of habit.
I think that's a better idea than 9 hour school days, which the times I've seen it requested is generally not for teaching, but because it is more convenient for many parents if they could drop kids off at 8 on the way to work and pick up after work, and nothing about academics. Of course, some might say if everyone went to their local school, you wouldn't need to drop them off early, as they could just walk without fear even at a young age. I'm not as fussed about that.
The 30 child limit for infant class sizes needs to go though, or a massive school building programme implemented- not because it's not a nice idea, but because it's simply become unworkable in a lot of places and leads to peverse situations, as it is so hard to under the law to get a child in on appeal in an infant class size situation, and they can be forced a long way from their home and local area. Class rooms are built to a bigger size thesedays, and while more than 30 can be a negative on a class, if a school thinks it can handle it and not suffer educationally, they should be allowed to.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
There's something great about being a kid and having all summer off though. You never get that again in your life. I have great memories of endless summers.
Absolutely - very precious, unrepeatable times doing nothing much and it not mattering.
I hated school until sixth form because it was utterly boring. I knew a bit about chemistry and stole stink bomb ingredients from the lab. I think if I had been forced to do nine hour days I would have built a nuclear bomb.
Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Hear hear.
Reminds me of a saying (not quite as reasonable as the above, but still), about how modern society places far too much emphasis on protecting stupid people from the consequences of their own stupidity.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
There's something great about being a kid and having all summer off though. You never get that again in your life. I have great memories of endless summers.
Absolutely - very precious, unrepeatable times doing nothing much and it not mattering.
The tragedy - and bliss - of it was that you never knew a that age that you would never have it so good
I hated school until sixth form because it was utterly boring. I knew a bit about chemistry and stole stink bomb ingredients from the lab. I think if I had been forced to do nine hour days I would have built a nuclear bomb.
So it would have worked? That would have been might impressive.
Can't see this idea getting off the ground. As others have said, many parents like the use of breakfast and afterschool clubs, but mandatory 9 hour school days? Book learning is probably not effective for that many hours in the day, given the loss of play and socialization which is also important to development.
I do like that 'Cameron faces Tory revolt' takes up such a small portion of the front page of the Telegraph. Admittedly, it isn't very newsworthy, being the natural state most of the time.
Always keep in mind that the sheer overwhelming incompetence of those who are supposedly in charge of things while the boss is busy is certain to make things worse.
The tory whips have hardly covered themselves in glory so far this parliament (like for the Syria vote) so if it all goes pear-shaped tomorrow it will be a failure not just of the leadership but of those Cammie charged with trying to keep order in the tory party.
Quite so. I do give Cameron a lot of slack, but despite the challenges he has had to deal with, and with less inducements to offer the dissenters due to presence of the coalition, he and his whips have been bloody useless at party discipline. Folks like Carswell can try and paint that as a victory for parliament at times, and there may even be some truth to that, but at the end of the day if Cameron's inability to control his own party sets the mood for a resurgence of the legislature over the executive, that is not something he would want to be known for, or his successors would thank him for, so he cannot be lauded for that happening, if it does.
The point about Cameron and Osbrowne's master strategies is that they are always done out of short term panic with little to no thought given to the long term consequences. All he has done with his Cast Iron Pledge for an EU referendum is to throw a grenade into the heart of the tory party and hope he either isn't around or can somehow dodge it when it goes off.
If the kipper vote stays anywhere near as high as it is right now in 2015 then all Cammie has done is to pass on to the next tory leader an ungovernable party split irrevocably on IN or OUT. That next tory leader will also have been chosen on whether he wants the tory party to stay IN or OUT. It is a certainty that tory MPs will hardly choose a new leader without giving serious thought to whether they want to spend another five years having Farage outflanking them every single time on Europe and immigration. Which is precisely what will happen if they choose another pro-Europe leader like Cammie who wants to stay IN.
By the way, and despite this somewhat snippy comment, the UKIP tax page is well worth reading. They are absolutely right that excessive taxation of work makes marginal businesses uneconomic and leads to increased unemployment.
One has to wonder when their more elderly supporters will get round to realising that the flip side of their policy is a massive tax hike for pensioners.
They don't care, Richard. UKIP supporters have one major thing on their mind and that's what motivates them.
Everything else - including the EU - are just fuzzy rages, flavours in the stew, things that they sense UKIP share their "values" on, but not something that gets them shouting at the telly like the Big Thing.
You really don't understand much at all do you?
He's a Labour supporter. They have trouble understanding how to tie their shoe laces, let alone anything else. Leave the poor soul in his blissful ignorance.
Is that good or bad? I honestly don't know, as it seems like a lot of parents want their kids at school from 8-5, so without having access beyond the paywall I don't know if 9 hours a day is to be portrayed as out of touch tories or good old tories.
ETA: Ah, seen the frontpage proper now - apparently a bad idea.
School holidays do need shaking up though.
You say shaking up kle4,what would you do ?
I'm in favour of the idea of shortening the summer holidays, having more evenly spaced terms throughout the year. But I admit that just seems better to me, I have not seen studies or the like on the subject, and I've heard Independent schools often have even longer breaks in the summer, so I could be dead wrong on it being more suitable.
There's something great about being a kid and having all summer off though. You never get that again in your life. I have great memories of endless summers.
Absolutely - very precious, unrepeatable times doing nothing much and it not mattering.
The tragedy - and bliss - of it was that you never knew a that age that you would never have it so good
I don't think that's true, not universally. The idea that you never have it so good as at that age permeates our pop culture (though some give the opposite few, it is the minority), and I definitely recall being aware that school years were probably the most free and stressfree time we would all have.
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard 25 mins How can @paddyashdown call @MaajidNawaz views 'minority'. It's those who seek to shackle free speech who are a loud minority
The Lib Dems proving, yet again, that they have no understanding of what liberalism means.
If causing offence is to be the test, then I am deeply offended by the offensive things written in the Koran about Jews and non-Muslims, not to mention the statements made by all too many Muslim leaders about gays. Can we ban them? See what nonsense we get into when offence is given any sort of weight at all?
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard 25 mins How can @paddyashdown call @MaajidNawaz views 'minority'. It's those who seek to shackle free speech who are a loud minority
The Lib Dems proving, yet again, that they have no understanding of what liberalism means.
If causing offence is to be the test, then I am deeply offended by the offensive things written in the Koran about Jews and non-Muslims, not to mention the statements made by all too many Muslim leaders about gays. Can we ban them? See what nonsense we get into when offence is given any sort of weight at all?
@RichardTyndall should be banned for offending Labourites below ;-)
Just gone past 5" of rainfall for this month. Throw in the back end of last year and it's something like 8" in six weeks. That's a lot of rain. I'm glad that we're at the top of a hill.
I hated school until sixth form because it was utterly boring. I knew a bit about chemistry and stole stink bomb ingredients from the lab. I think if I had been forced to do nine hour days I would have built a nuclear bomb.
So it would have worked? That would have been might impressive.
Can't see this idea getting off the ground. As others have said, many parents like the use of breakfast and afterschool clubs, but mandatory 9 hour school days? Book learning is probably not effective for that many hours in the day, given the loss of play and socialization which is also important to development.
I dare say I would have had some difficulty sourcing the plutonium from L1 but I would have made do with a locust or something from Biology.
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard 25 mins How can @paddyashdown call @MaajidNawaz views 'minority'. It's those who seek to shackle free speech who are a loud minority
The Lib Dems proving, yet again, that they have no understanding of what liberalism means.
If causing offence is to be the test, then I am deeply offended by the offensive things written in the Koran about Jews and non-Muslims, not to mention the statements made by all too many Muslim leaders about gays. Can we ban them? See what nonsense we get into when offence is given any sort of weight at all?
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz, their Hampstead candidate, to judge by Ashdown's performance on Newsnight. And the fact that someone has to hide their face because they have drawn a cartoon is shameful.
What? He was wearing a veil? I thought only Muslim women did that.
Thanks for the media round up Eagles, I think that 4&5 are a must read/listen, and definitely worthy of a thread by OGH because of the political implications. When you have a normally critical right leaning journalist like Fraser Nelson, and a normally serial rebel Eurosceptic Tory MP like Douglas Carswell coming to the same view that its time to stop the silly internal bickering and rebellions within the Conservative party, and because its now time to get behind David Cameron to focus on winning the next GE.
This turn of events could also end up having an impact on the Labour Lead and current UKIP polling in the run up to the next GE. It would be ironic if Miliband and Balls have just made the same political miscalculations they and Brown made back in the Autumn of 2007 in their strategy planning, and all because they couldn't resist those very typical and cynical political clear blue water tactics. Especially if it once again achieves the effect of unifying the CPP while bringing back UKIP switchers at the same time. Swing back anyone?
Can you imagine the carnage come 3.00 pm, when they've already been there seven hours? It will be horrible. Kids need free time. They also need long holidays to recharge. Nine hours a day for 45 weeks a year is just punitive. Presumably Gove is floating this to get a reaction from teachers.
I fear you're right, about this being just another opportunity to wind up some teachers, highlight their theoritically short working hours etc. i wonder if anyone actually notices it much.
i guess the orginal motivation from whoever floated it first was a bit of wet tory social engineering- get the damaged kids out of their damaging environment and into a beautiful scandinavian utopia of a morning and so on...
'course if there were still playing fields they could be playing football before and after school instead, and our national team might have a bit more stength in depth...
Can you imagine the carnage come 3.00 pm, when they've already been there seven hours? It will be horrible. Kids need free time. They also need long holidays to recharge. Nine hours a day for 45 weeks a year is just punitive. Presumably Gove is floating this to get a reaction from teachers.
I fear you're right, about this being just another opportunity to wind up some teachers, highlight their theoritically short working hours etc. i wonder if anyone actually notices it much.
i guess the orginal motivation from whoever floated it first was a bit of wet tory social engineering- get the damaged kids out of their damaging environment and into a beautiful scandinavian utopia of a morning and so on...
'course if there were still playing fields they could be playing football before and after school instead, and our national team might have a bit more stength in depth...
The educational advantage rich kids have is supposed to be tutoring after school and during school holidays: more teaching hours. So this would provide equality of opportunity.
Definitely has to be the mildest and wettest winter I have ever experienced up here, cannot remember ever going this long without any snow at all during the winter! Yet there has been a bucket load of snow dumped on the surrounding mountains, and when the rain finally stops and the clouds lift we might even be able to see them and some snow from a distance!
Just gone past 5" of rainfall for this month. Throw in the back end of last year and it's something like 8" in six weeks. That's a lot of rain. I'm glad that we're at the top of a hill.
It does rather look as if the Lib Dems are being weaselly and illiberal over Majid Nawaz...I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it.
Freedom to give offence is an integral part of freedom of speech. Abolishing it would neuter free speech completely.
Having said that....
The Lib Dems aren't abolishing free speech for a private citizen. They face a dilemma about someone running as candidate for their own party.
Any modern political party will retain some control over who they allow to represent their views. Part of the deal is don't tell voters to back a candidate opposing the party. Plenty of London Labourites would have loved to say "Vote Ken" when he was running as an independent, but were effectively gagged from doing so. To the extent curtailed their free speech, it was self-imposed by their desire to remain within the Labour Party structure.
Another part is: don't go round being deliberately offensive to big chunks of the electorate. Election 101 stuff, surely? "If people are easily offended, they shouldn't look in the first place" is no counter-argument to that. It's a fair, but by no means the strongest, argument in favour of freedom to offend. But no reason to force parties to impose woeful, s**t-stirring candidates upon themselves. The Tories dumped Philip Lardner in 2010 for saying gays were "not normal". Does anyone dispute they were right to do so? Or that they had the right to drop him? If gay people had exercised their right to not listen, and therefore not be offended, would all be ok?
It's a neutral, objective fact that pictures of the Prophet have historically been deeply taboo in many strands of Islam. Comic depictions of him are bound to grossly insult mainstream, moderate British Muslims (including many voters who the Lib Dems would be mad to alienate, and whom this chap aspires to represent the interests of in parliament). My, or your, personal reaction to the Islamic iconoclastic tradition might be that it's (a) hilarious, (b) archaic, (c) a fascinating exercise in compare-and-contrast with Medieval Christian disputes, (d) the source of an astonishing tradition of geometric art, (e) religiously intolerant, (e) a long-venerated tradition that outsiders should respect even if we do not share in it, or (f) one of many other possible irrelevant opinions about this fact, none of which make it less true. Even intended as a gesture in support of free speech, those cartoons are Muslim-goading. Knowingly, deliberately so.
Particularly insidiously, it plays on ignorance of different cultural norms - combining what is in one tradition a deeply offensive anti-Muslim statement, with a picture that looks utterly innocuous under Western standards. People who angrily state that they found it offensive come across as daft and disproportionate. They were baited - the same double-play that Catholic-goading pranksters make in desecrating the Host. Catholics get angry and offended, while outsiders giggle at them - not for the unfunny, but apparently innocent, practical joke, rather at the bizarre reaction to a piece of bread. Mortal Sin? Body of Christ? Megalolz. Grow a sense of humour, you nutcases. And that reaction is the punchline that was sought in the first place.
Nowt in this post serves as endorsement or critique of the Catholic or Muslim traditions. Theological debate via network packet is an infernal timesink I'm uninterested in - politics is bad enough. Also my politics lie sufficiently within the British Liberal tradition, that the legality of such cartoons is utterly uncontentious to me. But I have twofold bewilderment at the criticism heaped on the LDs. The failure to acknowledge that certain material has an obvious capacity to cause offence to Muslims, and a failure of logic that jumps from free speech for private individuals, to an obligation for political parties to back a candidate regardless of what they do or say.
Dating Update:- Nearly got bitten by a Lithuanian scammer. Met up in central Liverpool. She goes to the loo and comes back with "My flatmate is on the phone. I owe her £50, could I borrow it off you?" **** and a sharp exit...
Russian/Dagestani is happy to keep meeting once a week (her only night off from being a mum) for fun and frolics. "I vant you to be dominant... Slap me, hit me...." (LibDems, get real FFS)
Seeing a member of the Cheshire Set on Saturday. Her fantasy (amongst others) is to be taken al fresco across the bonnet of my car... Asked her point blank if I can stay the night on first date. The delight in her voice was palpable... Must remember to take the car to the handwash before heading south towards Crewe...
'I enjoyed our online chatting very much. I was hesitant to speak on the phone, got jitters for some reason. But I'm really glad we did, I felt at ease with you, comfortable, able to be open & interested. I can only hope you liked me too. I feel like we had a short date [1.5 hours actually...] via the phone. I'm intrigued by you, I want to know more & explore you, mind & body. I really hope there is attraction/chemistry with us. I feel there is. I am looking forward to seeing you & having some fun. Thank you for your time tonight x'
SeanT, where are you? I really need your advice, man! I can't work out if she likes me or not...
Absolutely - very precious, unrepeatable times doing nothing much and it not mattering.
We all have our own experiences and it's risky to extrapolate. I remember childhood as kindly, gentle and very tedious, especially the long holidays. I couldn't wait to grow up and get to do stuff.
Probably having good summer schools offering non-standard experiences to those who want them would be a good compromise. The Tory plan does sound a bit Stakhanovite.
'Yes so did I. My mind is running rather fast since we spoke, I'm excited to get to know your body, it's likes, it's desires, it's buzz spots & watch it squirm & writhe by my touch. Find out what turns you on, like touching you up in public places, flashing you naughty bits out of the blue, talking dirty in your ear while we're out. If you are just a straight vanilla man in bed or like a bit more than just oral & vaginal penetration. I like so many things, feeling hot cum splash my body, in my mouth tasting it & swallowing it, saving some on my lips & kissing you. Having your tongue in my mouth covered in my own pussy juice. Getting my ass spanked, whipped, caned for being a bad girl. Occasional anal sex. Wearing nice underwear with stockings, having my pussy rubbed in public places. Watching & being watched. Porn films of a certain type. I hope that helps your imagination a little. Oh & I'm not just a night time before sleep type, I like mornings, afternoons, evenings x Sleep well x'
Update 0419 'I think we we are extremely like minded & compatible on the sex front!!!! With lots of horny times ahead. I love being bad in public, sitting at a bar or table next to a few men & talking about our exploits or fantasies or even telling an untrue story loud enough for them to hear is great fun.'
Comments
Bloody governments.
I do sometimes think that though the fact that teachers will dislike something does not mean it is good idea, given the teachers already hate Gove he and Cameron may as well push through everything they can - it's not like they can get the teachers back on their side, or convince them their plans are good at this point, so if they have an idea for an unpopular change they think is deserving, give it a go.
Not hard to tell is it?
And of course England, at least, during his rule did rise in power at home and abroad. Charles I I tend to think of as inadequate to meet the challenges he was faced with, and Charles II had a comparitively much easier time of things after the war weariness of the preceding 20 years.
Video showing what was the world's only MagLev system which was in operation at Birmingham Airport between 1984 and 1995:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=asVQzbOftqE&
Most ukip politicians wives seem to be foreigners
Yeah if the gardener is earning more than the minimum wage, so what?
http://paulkirby.net/2014/01/26/is-this-the-perfect-2015-election-promise/
EXCL: All pupils to stay at school for 9 hours a day, 45 weeks a year, under a radical Tory 2015 election plan http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5410133/tories-looking-at-plans-to-keep-kids-in-school-nine-hours-a-day-45-weeks-a-year.html …
The tory whips have hardly covered themselves in glory so far this parliament (like for the Syria vote) so if it all goes pear-shaped tomorrow it will be a failure not just of the leadership but of those Cammie charged with trying to keep order in the tory party.
Cammo is the guy who is trashing it.
I'll offer you 4/5 lib Dems out poll ukip in ge2015, are you a taker?
Interestingly, I recall a historian (possibly Mark Kishlansky) positing that the origins of our party based politics had its roots in the New Model Army, when there was a purge (in 1647 I think) of the officer ranks and representatives, marking a clear delineation between the loose political factions of the era. I know not everyone agrees with that hypothesis (and I am half remembering it years after the fact), but if true I'm not sure if laying that part of the framework of this nation was good or bad. The factions of the parliaments thereafter were still far more political interests than firm groupings though.
There is a counter petition in his favour at Change.org. Shamefully the Labour candidate has failed to give him her support.
If the Lib Dems do drop him they will not get my vote. Freedom of speech matters not being cowed by those who threaten violence or who think that offence should be the determining factor. I don't care whether something gives offence. If I don't like it I don't read it or view it. Indeed, the obsession with not being offended has reached such ridiculous and dangerous levels that if we care about our freedoms, it is incumbent on us to say what we think as bluntly as possible precisely to make the point that we will not be bullied into good manners.
http://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/toolkit/approaches/extended-school-time
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard 25 mins
How can @paddyashdown call @MaajidNawaz views 'minority'. It's those who seek to shackle free speech who are a loud minority
I think that's a better idea than 9 hour school days, which the times I've seen it requested is generally not for teaching, but because it is more convenient for many parents if they could drop kids off at 8 on the way to work and pick up after work, and nothing about academics. Of course, some might say if everyone went to their local school, you wouldn't need to drop them off early, as they could just walk without fear even at a young age. I'm not as fussed about that.
The 30 child limit for infant class sizes needs to go though, or a massive school building programme implemented- not because it's not a nice idea, but because it's simply become unworkable in a lot of places and leads to peverse situations, as it is so hard to under the law to get a child in on appeal in an infant class size situation, and they can be forced a long way from their home and local area. Class rooms are built to a bigger size thesedays, and while more than 30 can be a negative on a class, if a school thinks it can handle it and not suffer educationally, they should be allowed to.
Reminds me of a saying (not quite as reasonable as the above, but still), about how modern society places far too much emphasis on protecting stupid people from the consequences of their own stupidity.
Can't see this idea getting off the ground. As others have said, many parents like the use of breakfast and afterschool clubs, but mandatory 9 hour school days? Book learning is probably not effective for that many hours in the day, given the loss of play and socialization which is also important to development.
If the kipper vote stays anywhere near as high as it is right now in 2015 then all Cammie has done is to pass on to the next tory leader an ungovernable party split irrevocably on IN or OUT. That next tory leader will also have been chosen on whether he wants the tory party to stay IN or OUT. It is a certainty that tory MPs will hardly choose a new leader without giving serious thought to whether they want to spend another five years having Farage outflanking them every single time on Europe and immigration. Which is precisely what will happen if they choose another pro-Europe leader like Cammie who wants to stay IN.
If causing offence is to be the test, then I am deeply offended by the offensive things written in the Koran about Jews and non-Muslims, not to mention the statements made by all too many Muslim leaders about gays. Can we ban them? See what nonsense we get into when offence is given any sort of weight at all?
Was talking specifically about summer holidays. I hated school - it was dull
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/immigration-labours-chris-bryant-rows-2158577#.UumVLq93uMM
Now that was funny.
@stephenpollard This is a fairly decent summary of my position: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZZ4QAp41g … (fwd to 3:30)
This turn of events could also end up having an impact on the Labour Lead and current UKIP polling in the run up to the next GE. It would be ironic if Miliband and Balls have just made the same political miscalculations they and Brown made back in the Autumn of 2007 in their strategy planning, and all because they couldn't resist those very typical and cynical political clear blue water tactics. Especially if it once again achieves the effect of unifying the CPP while bringing back UKIP switchers at the same time. Swing back anyone?
Mo Ansar if you're reading this you're a complete and utter cretin.
i guess the orginal motivation from whoever floated it first was a bit of wet tory social engineering- get the damaged kids out of their damaging environment and into a beautiful scandinavian utopia of a morning and so on...
'course if there were still playing fields they could be playing football before and after school instead, and our national team might have a bit more stength in depth...
Having said that....
The Lib Dems aren't abolishing free speech for a private citizen. They face a dilemma about someone running as candidate for their own party.
Any modern political party will retain some control over who they allow to represent their views. Part of the deal is don't tell voters to back a candidate opposing the party. Plenty of London Labourites would have loved to say "Vote Ken" when he was running as an independent, but were effectively gagged from doing so. To the extent curtailed their free speech, it was self-imposed by their desire to remain within the Labour Party structure.
Another part is: don't go round being deliberately offensive to big chunks of the electorate. Election 101 stuff, surely? "If people are easily offended, they shouldn't look in the first place" is no counter-argument to that. It's a fair, but by no means the strongest, argument in favour of freedom to offend. But no reason to force parties to impose woeful, s**t-stirring candidates upon themselves. The Tories dumped Philip Lardner in 2010 for saying gays were "not normal". Does anyone dispute they were right to do so? Or that they had the right to drop him? If gay people had exercised their right to not listen, and therefore not be offended, would all be ok?
It's a neutral, objective fact that pictures of the Prophet have historically been deeply taboo in many strands of Islam. Comic depictions of him are bound to grossly insult mainstream, moderate British Muslims (including many voters who the Lib Dems would be mad to alienate, and whom this chap aspires to represent the interests of in parliament). My, or your, personal reaction to the Islamic iconoclastic tradition might be that it's (a) hilarious, (b) archaic, (c) a fascinating exercise in compare-and-contrast with Medieval Christian disputes, (d) the source of an astonishing tradition of geometric art, (e) religiously intolerant, (e) a long-venerated tradition that outsiders should respect even if we do not share in it, or (f) one of many other possible irrelevant opinions about this fact, none of which make it less true. Even intended as a gesture in support of free speech, those cartoons are Muslim-goading. Knowingly, deliberately so.
Particularly insidiously, it plays on ignorance of different cultural norms - combining what is in one tradition a deeply offensive anti-Muslim statement, with a picture that looks utterly innocuous under Western standards. People who angrily state that they found it offensive come across as daft and disproportionate. They were baited - the same double-play that Catholic-goading pranksters make in desecrating the Host. Catholics get angry and offended, while outsiders giggle at them - not for the unfunny, but apparently innocent, practical joke, rather at the bizarre reaction to a piece of bread. Mortal Sin? Body of Christ? Megalolz. Grow a sense of humour, you nutcases. And that reaction is the punchline that was sought in the first place.
Nowt in this post serves as endorsement or critique of the Catholic or Muslim traditions. Theological debate via network packet is an infernal timesink I'm uninterested in - politics is bad enough. Also my politics lie sufficiently within the British Liberal tradition, that the legality of such cartoons is utterly uncontentious to me. But I have twofold bewilderment at the criticism heaped on the LDs. The failure to acknowledge that certain material has an obvious capacity to cause offence to Muslims, and a failure of logic that jumps from free speech for private individuals, to an obligation for political parties to back a candidate regardless of what they do or say.
Nearly got bitten by a Lithuanian scammer. Met up in central Liverpool. She goes to the loo and comes back with "My flatmate is on the phone. I owe her £50, could I borrow it off you?"
**** and a sharp exit...
Russian/Dagestani is happy to keep meeting once a week (her only night off from being a mum) for fun and frolics. "I vant you to be dominant... Slap me, hit me...." (LibDems, get real FFS)
Seeing a member of the Cheshire Set on Saturday. Her fantasy (amongst others) is to be taken al fresco across the bonnet of my car... Asked her point blank if I can stay the night on first date. The delight in her voice was palpable... Must remember to take the car to the handwash before heading south towards Crewe...
'I enjoyed our online chatting very much. I was hesitant to speak on the phone, got jitters for some reason. But I'm really glad we did, I felt at ease with you, comfortable, able to be open & interested. I can only hope you liked me too. I feel like we had a short date [1.5 hours actually...] via the phone. I'm intrigued by you, I want to know more & explore you, mind & body. I really hope there is attraction/chemistry with us. I feel there is.
I am looking forward to seeing you & having some fun. Thank you for your time tonight x'
SeanT, where are you? I really need your advice, man! I can't work out if she likes me or not...
It's the voice and the chat that does it, every time... ;-)
Probably having good summer schools offering non-standard experiences to those who want them would be a good compromise. The Tory plan does sound a bit Stakhanovite.
As if that's a bad thing?
'Yes so did I. My mind is running rather fast since we spoke, I'm excited to get to know your body, it's likes, it's desires, it's buzz spots & watch it squirm & writhe by my touch. Find out what turns you on, like touching you up in public places, flashing you naughty bits out of the blue, talking dirty in your ear while we're out. If you are just a straight vanilla man in bed or like a bit more than just oral & vaginal penetration.
I like so many things, feeling hot cum splash my body, in my mouth tasting it & swallowing it, saving some on my lips & kissing you. Having your tongue in my mouth covered in my own pussy juice. Getting my ass spanked, whipped, caned for being a bad girl. Occasional anal sex. Wearing nice underwear with stockings, having my pussy rubbed in public places. Watching & being watched. Porn films of a certain type.
I hope that helps your imagination a little. Oh & I'm not just a night time before sleep type, I like mornings, afternoons, evenings x
Sleep well x'
'I think we we are extremely like minded & compatible on the sex front!!!! With lots of horny times ahead. I love being bad in public, sitting at a bar or table next to a few men & talking about our exploits or fantasies or even telling an untrue story loud enough for them to hear is great fun.'