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Broken Eggs. No Omelette. – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited February 2023 in General
imageBroken Eggs. No Omelette. – politicalbetting.com

Tories are always keen to present tax cuts as essential to business confidence and investment, growth and making a country a desirable place to work and live. They are markedly less keen to focus on other factors affecting business and personal decisions. Let’s take two of them: good governance and certainty about the laws affecting you. Yes, I’m afraid it’s time to revisit the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill. (Yes, it is clunky. Address complaints to Raab, the Bill’s sponsor. We can add crimes against the English language and history to the charge sheet he faces.)

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    First
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Pagan2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
    As if that would make any difference.

    😁
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    Great article by the way :)
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    Great article by the way :)
    Why, thank you, kind sir.

    😊
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    @MoonRabbit are you keeping well my friend? I hope we are still friends.

    Yes still a hung parliament for me
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    @MoonRabbit are you keeping well my friend? I hope we are still friends.

    Yes still a hung parliament for me

    Are you being serious? Even with a Corbyn comeback Labour would struggle to not win this one.
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    Pagan2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
    Sue Neil :lol:
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391
    edited February 2023
    Youtube seems to be down.

    ETA rather, the home page is not working, though you can still search for videos.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Youtube seems to be down.

    Working for me.
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    What an excellent header by Cyclefree - possibly the best I've ever seen by her, and one of the best I've seen in over 15 years looking at the site.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,209
    Arf.

    "However, when Paris discovered that Mr. Zelensky was to be received with red carpet treatment in London over the past 24 hours, diplomats said, officials scrambled to arrange a stopover dinner.

    French officials reached out on Wednesday to Berlin to see whether German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who was speaking in parliament, could reschedule his plans and join the Paris meeting.

    By the afternoon Mr. Macron’s and Mr. Scholz’ offices, so often the target of allied charges that they were too hesitant about throwing their full support behind Ukraine, confirmed the meeting."

    --WSJ
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    About 10 percent of Alphabet's market value – some $120 billion – was wiped out this week after Google proudly presented Bard, its answer to Microsoft's next-gen AI offerings, and the system bungled a simple question.
    https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/08/alphabet_bard_mistake/

    Oops.
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    RobD said:

    Youtube seems to be down.

    Working for me.
    Youtube looks back to normal for me as well now.
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    RobD said:

    Youtube seems to be down.

    Working for me.
    Youtube looks back to normal for me as well now.
    Youtube's algorithm suggests two minutes of Tony Blair having fun at William Hague's expense in a Queen's Speech debate.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv7_v8ujBVo
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    As an aside, @Cyclefree is absolutely right.
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    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, @Cyclefree is absolutely right.

    She is but you could probably have made similar criticisms about any of this government's attempts to convert slogans into policy.
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,097
    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,636
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    WillG said:

    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.

    A lot of EU product related legislation is ISO related.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    Andy_JS said:
    For what role?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited February 2023
    WillG said:

    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.

    The problem is that it’s EU legislation, and there are groups of people that think EU legislation is automatically good, and other groups who think that EU legislation is automatically bad. Very few commentators are looking at the actual legislation, and instead are focussing on divergence from the EU being either good or bad.

    Things like ISO standards, agreed on a global scale, are generally good, even if the UK implementation of those standards came from the EU. The UK government would have done this stuff anyway.

    There’s other EU legislation that’s more protectionist in nature, often to protect domestic EU industries that don’t exist in the UK. These can be easily repealed, or replaced with global standards.

    In the middle, there’s a whole load of stuff that requires a political discussion and agreement. This is what a government with an 80-seat majority and 18 months until the election, needs to be prioritising.

    The appointment of Kemi Badenoch as Business Secretary, is a great choice from a PM I don’t usually praise. Her department is not a spending department, much more a regulatory department, so there’s a good chance there of people willing to challenge the Treasury authodoxy to drive economic growth.
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    - … crimes against the English language and history…

    You’ve used the forbidden word.
    These days it’s all “British” (sic).
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    Very good article.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Twitter glitching and apparently Musk has paused all new developments...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    It's impossible to seriously disagree with this header. Both these bills are an embarrassment and do nothing to address our real problems. The bill for removal of EU legislation is presumably designed to reduce our alignment with the SM and thus make it more difficult for a future Starmer led government to edge back to the EU or possibly the EEA. It's almost an admission of defeat.

    This is not a good reason for such chaos. It would have been far better to try to find 5-20 areas where EU legislation is actually holding back research or development that we might want to revisit. Regulations on genetically altered crops might be an example (I don't know enough about the complexities to have a concluded view). Changing things for the sake of changing them is just stupid, whoever actually does it.

    Which brings us to the Human Rights bill. As so many including myself have pointed out before there is a large body of established law built up on Convention rights. Attempts to challenge this fail and really struggle to get leave to proceed to appellate courts at all. If we have a new "British" bill the country is going to spend hundreds of millions recreating that structure. Given that I am now in Crown Office and would not enjoy that largesse that is a terrible idea. 😉
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Possible breakthrough with the fire fighters: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64577716

    Right now trying to resolve public sector strikes and get services back to some sort of normal really should be the number one priority for the government. This means serious work on budgets and priorities (because the additional money doesn't come out of thin air) and a willingness to compromise for the public good of all of us rather than the displacement activity @Cyclefree is talking about.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    Andy_JS said:
    My son disagrees with capital punishment. That's why he only writes in lower case. He also believes in freeing punctuation, which is why he never imprisons any in his writing....
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Andy_JS said:
    My son disagrees with capital punishment. That's why he only writes in lower case. He also believes in freeing punctuation, which is why he never imprisons any in his writing....
    Word Crimes the lot of them.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    DavidL said:

    It's impossible to seriously disagree with this header. Both these bills are an embarrassment and do nothing to address our real problems. The bill for removal of EU legislation is presumably designed to reduce our alignment with the SM and thus make it more difficult for a future Starmer led government to edge back to the EU or possibly the EEA. It's almost an admission of defeat.

    This is not a good reason for such chaos. It would have been far better to try to find 5-20 areas where EU legislation is actually holding back research or development that we might want to revisit. Regulations on genetically altered crops might be an example (I don't know enough about the complexities to have a concluded view). Changing things for the sake of changing them is just stupid, whoever actually does it.

    Which brings us to the Human Rights bill. As so many including myself have pointed out before there is a large body of established law built up on Convention rights. Attempts to challenge this fail and really struggle to get leave to proceed to appellate courts at all. If we have a new "British" bill the country is going to spend hundreds of millions recreating that structure. Given that I am now in Crown Office and would not enjoy that largesse that is a terrible idea. 😉

    Considering the EU laws and regulations are so ubiquitous, Leavers really struggle to find one that they object to. Could it be that they are near universally well drafted, sensible and necessary?
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Pagan2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
    If Sunil self id’ed as anything surely it would be a as train (spotter)…

    I’ll get my own coat
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    .

    Very good article.

    Very bad government.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    eek said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
    If Sunil self id’ed as anything surely it would be a as train (spotter)…

    I’ll get my own coat
    He would trainsition if it suited him.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    It's at least coherent, unlike Johnson or Truss.

    And it's not noticeably sillier than the latter's claims.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    No excitement for today's gripping West Lancs by election, then?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    Sandpit said:

    WillG said:

    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.

    The problem is that it’s EU legislation, and there are groups of people that think EU legislation is automatically good, and other groups who think that EU legislation is automatically bad. Very few commentators are looking at the actual legislation, and instead are focussing on divergence from the EU being either good or bad...
    Which is precisely the argument against this absurd bill.
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    What a shocking piece of namby-pamby liberal bleating this piece is. The government want to scrap as many health and safety laws as their spiv donors demand. When people voted for Brexit, they definitely voted to be forced to work a 60 hour week in unsafe conditions for someone else's profit.

    It is a matter of fact that the EU forced things like H&S and later the Working Time Directive on us. If we had our own way we would have had BRITISH lorry drivers ploughing through traffic all day and all night.
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    Roger said:

    @MoonRabbit are you keeping well my friend? I hope we are still friends.

    Yes still a hung parliament for me

    Are you being serious? Even with a Corbyn comeback Labour would struggle to not win this one.
    Maybe a secret plan to replace Starmer with Derek Hatton would do it?

    Well, they might have to make do with NOM but it would certainly help.
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    Nigelb said:

    .

    Very good article.

    Very bad government.
    And Rishi's fingerprints are all over this plan. Remember the paper shredder from the leadership election?

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/rishi-sunak-campaign-video-shredding

    As for which eurolaws are worth shredding, I don't know. I'm sure there are individuals and businesses whose profits are squeezed by current regulations. But that's going to be true of any rule set. The list of freedoms JRM produced rather looked like a game not worth the candle.
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    What an excellent header by Cyclefree - possibly the best I've ever seen by her, and one of the best I've seen in over 15 years looking at the site.

    Cyclefree's thread headers are always exceptionally good. The problem with them is that all I can do is meekly agree, sigh, and wish I could write stuff like that.

    Maybe we could get MalcG to do one, and we could all pile in to him.
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    This misses the point. This is a wrecking bill. If we leave the legislation untouched it makes it much easier in 10 years time to say We want to rejoin and, hey, it's going to be a really smooth transition because, look, our laws are already largely EU compliant. Hence we have to set a booby trap and change hectares to rods and perches, passim.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229
    edited February 2023
    Is the EU Bill designed to fail? They want to have their arses handed to them at the supreme court so that the spiv media can say "the people" are being blocked by the "enemies of the people" again?

    A last desperate play of "we are trying to deliver your Brexit benefit of being forced to work longer hours for less pay, but the liberal elites are trying to stop us. Vote conservative and we will pas an enabling act to allow Mikey Govey to do whatever his drug-addled hallucinations tell him is best for you without the need for parliament of courts to try and stop YOUR will"
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Another day, another Poo-Bah expressing her horror at discovering how awful police culture is.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/metropolitan-police-officer-was-nicknamed-the-rapist-by-colleagues-ndrq372dm

    Some extracts -

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock, who is conducting a review of the force’s standards and internal culture, said that she did not know how much worse the crisis enveloping policing could be.

    Casey has already highlighted an “anything goes” attitude to misconduct and systemic failings to sack rogue officers. She told the ITV1 documentary Women & The Police: The Inside Story that her team had looked at 18,000 allegations of misconduct and “not one person we have listened to has had a positive experience of the misconduct system”.

    She added: “The system leans in behind the perpetrator to protect the status quo and to keep things as they are.”


    I mean, I agree. But where has she - and all the others saying much the same - been all these years? Here I am I, a housewife from Barrow compared to the Great 'n' the Good, and I've been saying that there's something rotten in U.K. policing and why and what they need to do for the last 4 years.

    And they've only just discovered this now??

    What do these people do all day? Don't they have eyes to see, ears to hear and a brain to read?
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    eek said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ha! Well I'm the first woman. So there!

    you are assuming sunil hasn't self id'ed
    If Sunil self id’ed as anything surely it would be a as train (spotter)…

    I’ll get my own coat
    Do we know what search engine he uses?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    About 10 percent of Alphabet's market value – some $120 billion – was wiped out this week after Google proudly presented Bard, its answer to Microsoft's next-gen AI offerings, and the system bungled a simple question.
    https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/08/alphabet_bard_mistake/

    Oops.

    Perhaps we might be spared another Leon post about ChatGPT's infallibility then!
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,616

    This misses the point. This is a wrecking bill. If we leave the legislation untouched it makes it much easier in 10 years time to say We want to rejoin and, hey, it's going to be a really smooth transition because, look, our laws are already largely EU compliant. Hence we have to set a booby trap and change hectares to rods and perches, passim.

    As long as we don't go American and start using acre-feet for volume.
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    This misses the point. This is a wrecking bill. If we leave the legislation untouched it makes it much easier in 10 years time to say We want to rejoin and, hey, it's going to be a really smooth transition because, look, our laws are already largely EU compliant. Hence we have to set a booby trap and change hectares to rods and perches, passim.

    Indeed. They want Divergence, and they want it Now. It is clearly in our interests to withdraw from the modern world and bring back archaic measures as you suggested. It must be - they keep proposing it. Perhaps they dream of imposing sensible measures like Firkins on the other Empire peoples so that once again we tell the world what to do.

    Because otherwise, why would you do it? Its like food standards where on one hand they insist they will only ever improve them, whilst practically begging the US for a deal to flood the market with their hormone and weevil-infested shit. We know they lie, I assume they know they lie Have to credit their staying power t keep going regardless of sanity or interest from a public that has had enough of the whole thing.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    We've discovered the secret behind Dominic Raab - an early prototype of a human ChatGPT.
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    dixiedean said:

    No excitement for today's gripping West Lancs by election, then?

    Labour win with widening margin over Conservatives. Lib Dems have made more of an effort than usual and clearly targeting a council ward. Monster Raving Loonies at least have supported local businesses - well the pubs! Their candidate the only one I've seen as a result!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited February 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Another day, another Poo-Bah expressing her horror at discovering how awful police culture is.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/metropolitan-police-officer-was-nicknamed-the-rapist-by-colleagues-ndrq372dm

    Some extracts -

    Baroness Casey of Blackstock, who is conducting a review of the force’s standards and internal culture, said that she did not know how much worse the crisis enveloping policing could be.

    Casey has already highlighted an “anything goes” attitude to misconduct and systemic failings to sack rogue officers. She told the ITV1 documentary Women & The Police: The Inside Story that her team had looked at 18,000 allegations of misconduct and “not one person we have listened to has had a positive experience of the misconduct system”.

    She added: “The system leans in behind the perpetrator to protect the status quo and to keep things as they are.”


    I mean, I agree. But where has she - and all the others saying much the same - been all these years? Here I am I, a housewife from Barrow compared to the Great 'n' the Good, and I've been saying that there's something rotten in U.K. policing and why and what they need to do for the last 4 years.

    And they've only just discovered this now??

    What do these people do all day? Don't they have eyes to see, ears to hear and a brain to read?

    Well, they clearly don't read your articles on PB where it's all laid out nice and clearly in language so simple even Dominic Cummings or Richard Burgon should be able to understand it.

    But I'm slowly coming to the conclusion the problem is it goes far wider. What the police are doing is particularly horrible, but the culture described could equally be applied to education, or finance, or administration.

    Edith Pargeter noted in the 1960s that the British disease was 'we do not discard our failures. On the contrary, we promote them.' The inevitable result of this attitude is that serial incompetents or indeed the malicious end up in roles where they do enormous damage over a prolonged period of time, and then promote other incompetents to support them. And far from improving since the 1960s it seems to be getting worse.

    I don't have easy answers, but if we keep going like this we're going to have no public structures of any sort worth speaking of.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    Well, it's hard to dispute that one.
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    sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 128
    Wow I didn't even know the West Lancs by-election was taking place today. Talk about under the radar. The last two were pretty quiet as well but Chester I did know was happening.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    ...
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    We've discovered the secret behind Dominic Raab - an early prototype of a human ChatGPT.
    That explains a lot. They surgically removed his brain and installed it as the CPU behind the various new AIs. Brave of them to experiment with sending his body out powered by a Raspberry Pi replacement, though it does explain why his eyes and mouth move silently and randomly like a Furby.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    We've discovered the secret behind Dominic Raab - an early prototype of a human ChatGPT.
    That's a bit harsh.

    On ChatGPT.
  • Options

    Is the EU Bill designed to fail? They want to have their arses handed to them at the supreme court so that the spiv media can say "the people" are being blocked by the "enemies of the people" again?

    A last desperate play of "we are trying to deliver your Brexit benefit of being forced to work longer hours for less pay, but the liberal elites are trying to stop us. Vote conservative and we will pas an enabling act to allow Mikey Govey to do whatever his drug-addled hallucinations tell him is best for you without the need for parliament of courts to try and stop YOUR will"

    If it is, Rishi is worse at politics, doing more paint-by-numbers, than I thought.

    It's not 2019, the government has a chunky majority, given to them so that they can Get Brexit Done. There isn't a sufficient enemy within the Commons to thwart them. So I don't think the BoJo ruse works.

    Besides, what happens after that? They get a mandate to do a crazy thing, they still have to do the crazy thing. And it is crazy, isn't it?

    Simpler explanations are that Rishi is a prisoner of the nutters, or is a nutter himself.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,616
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    I presume that Anderson is doing exactly the job he was appointed to do. Get in the faces of the North London handwringers and throw some bones for the first time Tories in the Red Wall.

    Something of a shit or bust approach from Sunak.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    Well, it's hard to dispute that one.
    Terry Pratchett:

    'We-ell, sir, it's hard to make deterrence as a general point, because we don't have evidence of crimes not committed,' said Mr Trooper. 'But in the specifics now, I'd say it's very effective.'

    'Meaning?'

    'Meaning I've never seen anyone up here more than once, sir.'
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    The problem was always that a significant number had not committed a crime before execution.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999
    Scott_xP said:

    ...




    Ain't a hope in Hell
    Nothing's gonna bring us down
    The way we fly five miles off the ground
    Because we shoot to kill
    And you know we always will
    It's a bomber, it's a bomber
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    Nobody committed a crime after being murdered, either.
    That's hardly an argument in favour, is it ?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    In shock news, the market has finally realised that ChatGPT makes mistakes...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    We've discovered the secret behind Dominic Raab - an early prototype of a human ChatGPT.
    Raab is clearly far less intelligent. Artificial or otherwise, I leave for you to decide.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...




    Ain't a hope in Hell
    Nothing's gonna bring us down
    The way we fly five miles off the ground
    Because we shoot to kill
    And you know we always will
    It's a bomber, it's a bomber
    Zelensky actually looks like he is about to go into action there, Sunak looks like a male model for a fighter pilot outfit catalogue!
  • Options

    This misses the point. This is a wrecking bill. If we leave the legislation untouched it makes it much easier in 10 years time to say We want to rejoin and, hey, it's going to be a really smooth transition because, look, our laws are already largely EU compliant. Hence we have to set a booby trap and change hectares to rods and perches, passim.

    Indeed. They want Divergence, and they want it Now. It is clearly in our interests to withdraw from the modern world and bring back archaic measures as you suggested. It must be - they keep proposing it. Perhaps they dream of imposing sensible measures like Firkins on the other Empire peoples so that once again we tell the world what to do.

    Because otherwise, why would you do it? Its like food standards where on one hand they insist they will only ever improve them, whilst practically begging the US for a deal to flood the market with their hormone and weevil-infested shit. We know they lie, I assume they know they lie Have to credit their staying power t keep going regardless of sanity or interest from a public that has had enough of the whole thing.
    The one thing the Tories will always be good at is clinging to power with not even a modicum of shame or self-respect, long after the stench of corruption and decay would become unbearable to any normal human being.
  • Options
    Man charged over disappearance of girl found in Scottish Borders

    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/man-charged-over-disappearance-of-girl-found-in-scottish-borders

    Tide seems to be turning
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited February 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    I presume that Anderson is doing exactly the job he was appointed to do. Get in the faces of the North London handwringers and throw some bones for the first time Tories in the Red Wall.

    Something of a shit or bust approach from Sunak.
    Yes and remember 55% of voters back the death penalty still for serial killers even if only 40% back capital punishment overall.

    58% of 2019 Conservative voters back capital punishment though, the voters Anderson will have been appointed to target (even if I suspect Sunak personally opposes restoring hanging or bringing in US style lethal injection)


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/03/30/britons-dont-tend-support-death-penalty-until-you-
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    edited February 2023

    Even though I'm still pro EU membership, I can see so many ways in which "Take Back Control" could have been made a reality. A greater role for the Commons in legislative scrutiny could have been established. The job of scrutinising legacy EU legislation could have been given to a special Parliamentary select committee. New and innovative means of consultation could have been tested to involve the public more closely in the debates around trade-offs that arise when considering the detail of legislation.

    But these opportunities have not been explored. Instead we have a simple attempt of vesting all the power to create law into the hands of the Executive - and, in practice, given the relative numbers of ministers, civil servants and laws involved, into the hands of civil servants who might be more or less captured by the interest groups they are meant to regulate, and certainly aren't answerable to the electorate.

    Judged simply on its own terms it makes a complete mockery of the arguments advanced for Brexit. Did people really vote for Brexit so that the Commons would have less influence over UK law than while we were members of the EU?

    Johnson and Gove did say they were going to Take Back Control.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    With all this talk of the U.K. giving Ukraine its tanks and planes, are we potentially not leaving ourselves a little naked. I hate to say it, but should we not be rearming. You have can’t “speak softly and carry a big stick”, without a big stick.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    IanB2 said:

    In shock news, the market has finally realised that ChatGPT makes mistakes...

    The Google AI is a different one, FWIW.

    And it's rather that the market has realised that the use of AIs in search is a huge disruptor to their business model, and their effective, hugely profitable monopoly of online advertising is quite likely nearing its end.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    The problem was always that a significant number had not committed a crime before execution.
    Quite often they had, just not quite the right one. I love the way the descendants of Evans, hanged for Christie's 10 RP murders, are unanimous he was a complete shit who had it coming.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    The problem was always that a significant number had not committed a crime before execution.
    Timothy Evans, obviously.

    Also Derek Bentley and Edith Thompson where they were accessories who under modern conditions would probably not have been convicted of murder.

    Then there is endless argument still around those executed in World War I. It should be noted that many of those actually shot had been convicted and sentenced to death before, and pardoned. Of course, against that if you were suffering from a psychological disorder, merely being pardoned wasn't exactly helpful on its own.

    On the other hand, the likes of Ruth Ellis and James Hanratty who were used as causes celebre for the abolition of hanging had, in fact, clearly done what they were convicted of. Ellis was turned into one because she was good looking, and Hanratty because Paul Foot wanted to be awkward.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,442

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    Well, it's hard to dispute that one.
    There was the guy in the first of the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes films. Although he wasn't technically fully executed, to be fair.

    Also Jesus, in some jurisdictions (stiring up blasphemy in non Christian countries, for example) and arguably for disinterring a body without authorisation (his own, but probably still illegal?)
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    Did people really vote for Brexit so that the Commons would have less influence over UK law than while we were members of the EU?

    Yes

    There is an EU council meeting this week which will decide things that affect us in the future, and we are not in the room.

    That is what Brexit means.
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He says nobody committed a crime again after being executed
    Well, it's hard to dispute that one.
    There was the guy in the first of the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes films. Although he wasn't technically fully executed, to be fair.

    Also Jesus, in some jurisdictions (stiring up blasphemy in non Christian countries, for example) and arguably for disinterring a body without authorisation (his own, but probably still illegal?)
    I thought of Lazarus but not sure he committed any crimes.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,255
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Tbf ChatGPT doesn't present any arguments here at all, bankrupt or otherwise, it's just meaningless waffle that doesn't even begin to attempt to rebut Cyclefree's arguments.

    I predict a successful political career.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited February 2023

    Man charged over disappearance of girl found in Scottish Borders

    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/man-charged-over-disappearance-of-girl-found-in-scottish-borders

    Tide seems to be turning

    Why has the Guardian become transphopic all of a sudden?

    Someone’s behaviour, which is what’s being reported here, should have no impact on the identity of the person in question. Should it?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    In shock news, the market has finally realised that ChatGPT makes mistakes...

    The Google AI is a different one, FWIW.

    And it's rather that the market has realised that the use of AIs in search is a huge disruptor to their business model, and their effective, hugely profitable monopoly of online advertising is quite likely nearing its end.
    ChatGPT is clearly fallible and it is only a matter of time before Microsoft's and Musk's follows suit.

    The ChatGPT Emperor has finally been shown to have no clothes!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    dixiedean said:

    No excitement for today's gripping West Lancs by election, then?

    A significantly higher swing than Chester from what is a similar start point would be interesting, given that Chester is a liberally affluent middle class urban seat and West Lancs has more red wall plus farmers.

    The signs are that Labour have firmed up support levels in local by-elections in the past 2-3 months so that they now track closer to the polls, and there will be interest in seeing if a similar firming up towards high teens swing can be attained in a parliamentary by-election.

    I'd be cautious of making any prediction on this point.
  • Options
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Tbf ChatGPT doesn't present any arguments here at all, bankrupt or otherwise, it's just meaningless waffle that doesn't even begin to attempt to rebut Cyclefree's arguments.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Or if it's less ambitious maybe it becomes a prolific PB poster.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Anyway having subtly compared myself to a Victoria Wood character, I need to get ready. Travelling to the capital (exciting!) for social and other events.

    Have fun!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Tbf ChatGPT doesn't present any arguments here at all, bankrupt or otherwise, it's just meaningless waffle that doesn't even begin to attempt to rebut Cyclefree's arguments.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Or if it's less ambitious maybe it becomes a prolific PB poster.
    Too late
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    Tbf ChatGPT doesn't present any arguments here at all, bankrupt or otherwise, it's just meaningless waffle that doesn't even begin to attempt to rebut Cyclefree's arguments.

    I predict a successful political career.
    This seems to me pretty obviously untrue.
    ...The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway having subtly compared myself to a Victoria Wood character, I need to get ready. Travelling to the capital (exciting!) for social and other events.

    Have fun!

    You too.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    WillG said:

    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.

    "How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all?l

    We were members for 43 years. That's why. I didn't say it was impossible to review them all. I said it was impossible to review them all in the absurdly short time the Government has decided on. The Bill also envisages laws disappearing without there being any review at all, something which is unprecedented. Laws fall into disuse but disappearing from the statute book without any sort of review by anyone - no.

    We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into U.K. life."

    No. It was precisely because of this that euroscepticism grew. Also many of these laws do relate to the economy. Though quite how the economy and U.K. life are different is a mystery. The former is a large part of the latter.

    ..."all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinised with democratic oversight

    They were scrutinised and with more democratic oversight than their removal will be.

    It is the Leavers who are lying - and what a big dangerous lie it is - about wanting to give power back to the people. That lie will come back to bite them hard one day. A great pity that so much damage will have been done in the meanwhile.
    A couple of other things.

    First, the Brexit movement is increasingly old men in a hurry, which is why there isn't time to check laws properly to see if the nation needs or wants them.

    @DavidL was right upthread; find an area where divergence might make obvious sense, diverge and build support. However, I suspect it's possible that those areas don't really exist. Take gene editing. Yes, there are opportunities and some are held back by the abundance of caution. But diverging in that field will likely make life harder for food producers trying to export into Europe. A few big winners, lots of small losers.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    rkrkrk said:

    Twitter glitching and apparently Musk has paused all new developments...

    Kind of makes you think that maybe not all is well at Twitter after all.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    Jonathan said:

    With all this talk of the U.K. giving Ukraine its tanks and planes, are we potentially not leaving ourselves a little naked. I hate to say it, but should we not be rearming. You have can’t “speak softly and carry a big stick”, without a big stick.

    We've had a year to crank up the armaments factories and to start producing new kit to replace the stuff sent to Ukraine, or to send directly, and precious little has happened. There's a lot of rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul, but not much evidence of us being able to do it.

    I suspect the main problems are that, (a) the crisis hasn't disturbed the existing malaise with British procurement of military equipment, which has been exceptionally poor for a long time, and, (b) the country is broke, and cannot afford to throw the money at the problem in the way that the Poles are doing, and we're using what cash we can find to purchase various odds and ends of equipment and ammunition for Ukraine from shady corners of the international market.

    On the latter point, I would expect that if/when Britain does send fighter jets to Ukraine, they won't be our Typhoons or F-35s, but they will be F-16s or other jets that we've quietly bought from someone else. Interesting to note that Britain has Gripens for training, for example.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,611
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    In shock news, the market has finally realised that ChatGPT makes mistakes...

    The Google AI is a different one, FWIW.

    And it's rather that the market has realised that the use of AIs in search is a huge disruptor to their business model, and their effective, hugely profitable monopoly of online advertising is quite likely nearing its end.
    ChatGPT is clearly fallible and it is only a matter of time before Microsoft's and Musk's follows suit.

    The ChatGPT Emperor has finally been shown to have no clothes!
    Not really.
    It doesn't have to be 'infallible' to be a very useful tool. AI driven search is already pretty
    clearly superior to Google's existing product - and removes much of the need for companies to pay Google to promote their businesses via search.
    That is hugely disruptive to Google's entire business, whether or not they gave their own AI product.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited February 2023
    Zelensky meets Macron and Scholz and will address the EU Parliament today

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64577375
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    HYUFD said:

    Zelensky meets Putin and Scholz and will address the EU Parliament today

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64577375

    Zelensky meets Putin? Wow if true.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    In shock news, the market has finally realised that ChatGPT makes mistakes...

    The Google AI is a different one, FWIW.

    And it's rather that the market has realised that the use of AIs in search is a huge disruptor to their business model, and their effective, hugely profitable monopoly of online advertising is quite likely nearing its end.
    ChatGPT is clearly fallible and it is only a matter of time before Microsoft's and Musk's follows suit.

    The ChatGPT Emperor has finally been shown to have no clothes!
    Not really.
    It doesn't have to be 'infallible' to be a very useful tool. AI driven search is already pretty
    clearly superior to Google's existing product - and removes much of the need for companies to pay Google to promote their businesses via search.
    That is hugely disruptive to Google's entire business, whether or not they gave their own AI product.
    We were told ChatGPT was 'infallible', not least by virtually every other Leon post.

    We were told it was going to make most professions redundant.

    This shows that it is basically primarily a creative writing product but based mainly on what has been inputted to it first and to a lesser degree an imperfect search engine
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,616
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I asked ChatGPT to rebut @Cyclefree's argument, and got the following:

    The author's argument overlooks the fact that tax cuts have been proven to boost economic growth and create a favorable business environment, which in turn leads to increased prosperity and happiness for individuals in the UK. While good governance and certainty about the laws are important, tax cuts help businesses retain profits and invest in new opportunities, leading to job creation and a thriving economy. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are necessary steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that align with its values and goals. The executive branch has the expertise to make these decisions and ensure that the laws increase the overall sum of human happiness in the country.

    The Bill of Rights, in particular, is aimed at modernizing the legal system and protecting individual rights, which will lead to increased security and happiness for citizens. Its impact is still being evaluated, but the Conservative Party's focus on promoting individual rights and a thriving economy is a step in the right direction.

    In conclusion, while the author raises valid concerns, they do not present a complete picture of the situation. The Conservative Party's focus on tax cuts and promoting individual rights is a necessary component of promoting economic growth and increasing the overall sum of human happiness in the UK. The Retained EU Law Bill and the Bill of Rights Bill may present challenges, but they are crucial steps towards creating a more independent and self-sufficient UK with laws that promote prosperity and happiness for all.

    Personally, I find @Cyclefree more compelling, but others may have a different view.

    If nothing else, it's an indication of how easy it is to get an AI to present absolutely bankrupt arguments, leavened with clear untruths, with a straight face.

    I predict a successful political career.
    We've discovered the secret behind Dominic Raab - an early prototype of a human ChatGPT.
    That's a bit harsh.

    On ChatGPT.
    Indeed:

    Explain in a few words how important the Dover-Calais channel crossing is to British trade

    The Dover-Calais channel crossing is a crucial transportation route for the United Kingdom as it connects Britain to the mainland of Europe. This route is heavily used for the import and export of goods and products, making it a vital trade link for the UK. In 2019, it was estimated that approximately £119 billion worth of goods were transported through the Dover-Calais route, which accounted for over 17% of UK's total trade with the European Union. The efficient and reliable functioning of this route is therefore essential for the continued economic success of the UK.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    WillG said:

    How can there be so many EU laws on the books that it is impossible to review them all? We were told for years that the EU was simply an economic community and that there was very little intrusion into UK life. Remainers also argued that all these EU laws were appropriately scrutinized with democratic oversight.

    It sounds like politicians and Remainers were lying about all of this.

    The problem is that it’s EU legislation, and there are groups of people that think EU legislation is automatically good, and other groups who think that EU legislation is automatically bad. Very few commentators are looking at the actual legislation, and instead are focussing on divergence from the EU being either good or bad...
    Which is precisely the argument against this absurd bill.
    But the opposition to it appears to concentrate little on the actual proposals, but more is against the whole concept of divergence from EU regulations, in the context of wanting to rejoin in the future.

    What’s absolutely certain, is that leaving the EU but not diverging over time, ends up with the worst of all worlds.
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