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Will Sunak be able to hold his line against the strikers? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited February 2023 in General
imageWill Sunak be able to hold his line against the strikers? – politicalbetting.com

This is by far the biggest day of industrial action that we have seen in the NHS since it’s foundation nearly 70 years ago.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    edited February 2023
    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    The latest polling shows more oppose the strikes than the current Tory voteshare and even the percentage who oppose the nurses' strike is no lower than the current Tory poll rating either.

    So as well as keeping spending costs down and reducing borrowing Sunak and Hunt will see this as a way to shore up the Conservative core vote even if the average voter still backs most of the strikers
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
  • HYUFD said:

    The latest polling shows more oppose the strikes than the current Tory voteshare and even the percentage who oppose the nurses' strike is no lower than the current Tory poll rating either.

    So as well as keeping spending costs down and reducing borrowing Sunak and Hunt will see this as a way to shore up the Conservative core vote even if the average voter still backs most of the strikers

    That is not correct because the voting numbers that you refer to do not include the don't knows. The strike numbers refer to all sampled
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008

    HYUFD said:

    The latest polling shows more oppose the strikes than the current Tory voteshare and even the percentage who oppose the nurses' strike is no lower than the current Tory poll rating either.

    So as well as keeping spending costs down and reducing borrowing Sunak and Hunt will see this as a way to shore up the Conservative core vote even if the average voter still backs most of the strikers

    That is not correct because the voting numbers that you refer to do not include the don't knows. The strike numbers refer to all sampled
    Well including the Don't Knows the Tory voteshare is even lower than their headline poll rating too!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    thanks to Putin
    The last desperate stand of General Custer.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Yet another person not giving Liz Truss the credit she deserves!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    I know everyone is thinking the same but this earthquake(s) in Turkey and Syria is just so awful.

    Horrendous. Difficult to think about anything else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    What happened with @MoonRabbit telling us the government had reached agreement with striking nurses - or did I imagine that ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    thanks to Putin
    The last desperate stand of General Custer.
    In December 2021 inflation was just 4%. After Putin invaded Ukraine in February 2022 it reached 10% by summer 2022
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Heathener said:

    I know everyone is thinking the same but this earthquake(s) in Turkey and Syria is just so awful.

    Horrendous. Difficult to think about anything else.

    It is.
    And yes, probably call it a second earthquake; 7.5 magnitude (as reported by USGS, though I think immediate figures are effectively estimates ?) isn't really an aftershock.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited February 2023
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Yet another person not giving Liz Truss the credit she deserves!
    Truss' budget increased mortgage rates, less so inflation which rose mainly due to Putin
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802
  • Hi ya @Heathener hope you’re okay
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited February 2023
    Heathener said:

    Mike, I really hope your ongoing health care is good. Very tough.

    The Conservatives have lost the plot on just about everything and they also now risk, if they haven't already, losing the only supporters left in their pocket: pensioners.

    It's all very well having your pension triple-locked but if you can't get an ambulance for 12 hours after breaking your hip, or even get the most basic standards of care, if you're left on a hospital trolley in a freezing cold corridor, then your £££ means absolutely bugger all. Health before wealth for everyone.



    The tories have blown it. Yet again.

    I had been waiting for the spinal appointment for so long that I had decided to go private. On that very day I got letters with dates for my NHS appointments. It would have been maddening if these had been postponed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Hi ya @Heathener hope you’re okay

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3

    Thanks so much. Yes all good. Hope you are too?

    I try to keep the red flag flying on here :D More of a gentle leftie really but it's surprising how threatening a few peeps seem to find alternative viewpoints.

    @MikeSmithson that's really good to hear and I don't blame you for taking the private option if you are able to. I've done the same myself when needed. All best for your recovery.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I know everyone is thinking the same but this earthquake(s) in Turkey and Syria is just so awful.

    Horrendous. Difficult to think about anything else.

    It is.
    And yes, probably call it a second earthquake; 7.5 magnitude (as reported by USGS, though I think immediate figures are effectively estimates ?) isn't really an aftershock.
    BBC.
    ...As we mentioned earlier, a second earthquake, which had a magnitude of 7.5, has struck in the Elbistan district of Turkey's Kahramanmaras province.

    Elbistan lies around 80 miles directly north of Gaziantep, where the epicentre of this morning's quake was situated.

    The second quake struck at 13:24 local time (10:24 GMT).

    An official from Turkey's Disaster and Emergency Management Authority said it was "not an aftershock" and was "independent" from this morning's quake...
  • The SNP leader has not become tired, as some commentary suggests, though time has certainly caught up with her. Every campaign pronouncement will now be treated much more sceptically. Delivery is where she has fallen down time and time again and this is where she is vulnerable.

    The SNP’s reputation for governing competence did not translate directly into support for independence but without that reputation, support for independence in 2014 would have been unlikely. As its record in government is increasingly questioned, its reputation for competence will decline. It may not immediately affect support for independence, but it will make it much harder to convince sceptical voters to support that goal.


    https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,nicola-sturgeons-snp-has-failed-to-deliver-much-of-what-it-promised
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Evidence?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Evidence?
    Ooops I read that the opposite , for sure there is no way private companies in general aree paying anywhere near what teh strikers are asking for
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731

    Really glad to see you back Mike and hope all went well.

    Likewise. Hope too that your recovery is a lot quicker than mine is turning out to be! How far down the spine was the operation?
    If you don’t mind telling us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited February 2023
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Evidence?
    Average payrise is about 6%.

    Inflation in December 2021 was just 4% ie average pay was rising above inflation, now after Putin invaded Ukraine in February 2022 inflation is 10% ie well above average pay rises
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731

    The SNP leader has not become tired, as some commentary suggests, though time has certainly caught up with her. Every campaign pronouncement will now be treated much more sceptically. Delivery is where she has fallen down time and time again and this is where she is vulnerable.

    The SNP’s reputation for governing competence did not translate directly into support for independence but without that reputation, support for independence in 2014 would have been unlikely. As its record in government is increasingly questioned, its reputation for competence will decline. It may not immediately affect support for independence, but it will make it much harder to convince sceptical voters to support that goal.


    https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,nicola-sturgeons-snp-has-failed-to-deliver-much-of-what-it-promised

    Not being compared to a competent Westminster though!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    "The issue, like with the other big public areas where action is taking place, is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that does not match inflation."

    Or rather:
    "The issue ... is the unions are not wanting to accept a pay increase that is less than half the rate of inflation."

    Even the average salary in the private sector is rising by well below inflation thanks to Putin
    Evidence?
    Average payrise is about 6%.

    Inflation in December 2021 was just 4% ie average pay was rising above inflation, now after Putin invaded Ukraine in February 2022 inflation is 10% ie well above average pay rises
    HYUFD , I corrected my error , I read it wrong
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560
    Heathener said:

    Mike, I really hope your ongoing health care is good. Very tough.

    The Conservatives have lost the plot on just about everything and they also now risk, if they haven't already, losing the only supporters left in their pocket: pensioners.

    It's all very well having your pension triple-locked but if you can't get an ambulance for 12 hours after breaking your hip, or even get the most basic standards of care, if you're left on a hospital trolley in a freezing cold corridor, then your £££ means absolutely bugger all. Health before wealth for everyone.

    And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.

    The tories have blown it. Yet again.

    Are you saying Sunak is a non-dom and is dodging tax?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,337

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
  • A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The tightness of the Cambridge green belt is utterly insane; places like Girton really ought to be agreeable parts of the city rather than maintaining the fiction that they are distinct rural villages.

    The other curiosity is how slowly places like Northstowe are being built out- it was being talked about when I was living in the area, and that was getting on for 20 years ago.

    Trouble is that the growing pains of that sort of thing are felt acutely and locally and the benefits are more dispersed, and our political system doesn't handle that very well. But the UK has to decide whether it wants to be rich in the future.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    First!

    (Of the increasingly small membership of the PB Trussites).
  • boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Mike, I really hope your ongoing health care is good. Very tough.

    The Conservatives have lost the plot on just about everything and they also now risk, if they haven't already, losing the only supporters left in their pocket: pensioners.

    It's all very well having your pension triple-locked but if you can't get an ambulance for 12 hours after breaking your hip, or even get the most basic standards of care, if you're left on a hospital trolley in a freezing cold corridor, then your £££ means absolutely bugger all. Health before wealth for everyone.

    And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.

    The tories have blown it. Yet again.

    Are you saying Sunak is a non-dom and is dodging tax?
    She had better hope nobody can be arsed to penetrate her VPN.

    The sort of statement that actual journalists and actual people who appear on actual telly are 100x as careful as the average, in being scrupulously correct about.
  • The SNP leader has not become tired, as some commentary suggests, though time has certainly caught up with her. Every campaign pronouncement will now be treated much more sceptically. Delivery is where she has fallen down time and time again and this is where she is vulnerable.

    The SNP’s reputation for governing competence did not translate directly into support for independence but without that reputation, support for independence in 2014 would have been unlikely. As its record in government is increasingly questioned, its reputation for competence will decline. It may not immediately affect support for independence, but it will make it much harder to convince sceptical voters to support that goal.


    https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,nicola-sturgeons-snp-has-failed-to-deliver-much-of-what-it-promised

    Not being compared to a competent Westminster though!
    The lowest of low bases!

    Let’s see if Sunak can up their game.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2023
    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    Phil said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
    It doesn't help with numpties doing this sort of thing:
    https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/a428-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet/latest-news/we-ve-heard-back-from-the-high-court/

    Basically, there is a single-lane road from our village, past St Neots, to the A1. It is the only single-carriageway stretch of road between Cambridge and Milton Keynes. The road can be quite dangerous (e.g. trying to turn off the B1040 at Eltisley). And these 'green' numpties are trying to stop it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,337
    Phil said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
    As a local example: there’s a large plot of land less than 500m from Oxford railway station that is currently being occupied by a calor gas distribution & storage centre. This is the dumbest place you could think of to put such a thing: an egregious waste of land. Next door to it is a warehouse that’s been empty for at least a decade, completely unused, except when the car rental place next door “borrowed” some of the land to park their cars on it until the landowner got annoyed & put fences up.

    Supposedly the whole area is up for redevelopment & is going through the planning process, but meanwhile this industrial land that has already been levelled & has power & utilities delivered just sits there, basically unused, for year after year after year. It’s criminal frankly.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Hogwarts Legacy seems to be reviewing well. Been looking forwards to this for probably 20 years, glad they didn't fuck it up and it's a PS5 game rather than PS3 or PS4 because it needs the power. Expect Twitter screeching to reach a crescendo in the next few days and JKR to take a victory lap or two and dunk on the idiot activists who have been wishing this game to fail.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @christopherhope: LATEST Rishi Sunak's tax return will be published "shortly" but not today, Number 10 sources tell me.
    More in today… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622569702613479424
  • Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,253

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    We could call it Stevenage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    Truss's favourite economic guru Minford, of course, advocates the complete abandonment/destruction of UK
    manufacturing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited February 2023

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    When I win the EuroMillions I will go back and open a thermal depolymerisation plant there. Just upwind of certain houses.

    The filters for the smell will be substandard.

    Edit: One thunderc**t actually said his objection was that development would raise local wages. So his gardener would charge more..
  • Good to hear you’re on the mend OGH - I was caught out by the strike and my twice delayed op has now been delayed thrice - third time lucky eh? Nothing serious so more of an irritant than a problem.

    Both the government and the Unions need to move. If any of the public sector get an inflation matching rise they’ll all hold out for one. The government should follow the market - where retention is a problem (nurses, teachers) time to go digging down the back of the sofa. £60,000/year train drivers, not so much.
  • A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    We could call it Stevenage.
    Too distant, I suspect. And telling businesses that they should go to Stevenage rather than Cambridge won't work if they don't want to go to Stevenage.

    (Fun fact: the institution that became Girton College Cambridge started off in Hitchin, all the better to keep the young ladies safe. After a few years, the founders concluded that was taking things a bit too far.)
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Max, the screeching has, so I've heard, been a huge asset for the game.
  • @JosiasJessop I just remembered my favourite signpost when I lived in Ely about 35 years ago - to Prickwillow and Grunty Fen (I was only ten years old!)

    Have you ever run in the Grunty Fen half marathon?
  • That’s odd….they’re usually pretty industrious at redacting:

    SNP officials mistakenly published Nicola Sturgeon’s bank account number today as they revealed her tax returns.

    The documents were put online by Nats HQ amid pressure for leading politicians to disclose their financial affairs.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10178265/snp-nicola-sturgeon-bank-account-tax-returns/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    The right to build new stuff outweighs your right for nothing to change?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    That too complicated a topic for a blog post reply, I think ?
    But good long term planning ought to only mean pissing people off once, in the short
    term.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    The right to build new stuff outweighs your right for nothing to change?
    Deleted
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    MPs’ staff survey finds distress at levels similar to frontline NHS workers
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/06/mps-staff-survey-finds-distress-at-levels-similar-to-frontline-nhs-workers

    Interestingly, the source of stress is not, in the main, MPs themselves:
    ... levels of bullying in parliament were found to be lower than in the average workplace...
  • Welcome back, Mike! Good to see you fully functional again!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @ftukpolitics: Brexit could be reversed — here’s how
    https://on.ft.com/3I0eNHf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    I'm not 100% optimistic about this, for some reason.

    Australian startup Recharge wins bid for collapsed UK battery company Britishvolt

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/australian-startup-recharge-wins-bid-for-collapsed-uk-battery-company-britishvolt
    ...Recharge’s pitch to administrators lent on strategic and diplomatic ties, and received support from the British government’s trade envoy for Australia, ex-English cricketer Ian Botham. ..

    Note no existing major manufacturer seems to have been interested, despite this being a prime UK location. And what is meant exactly by 'dominant position' in this context ?
    ...Bidders were particularly interested in Britishvolt’s intellectual property, according to one person close to the administration process, which includes patents, designs, supply chain partners and territorial licences that give the holder a dominant position in the UK.

    Administrators also received bids from existing Britishvolt investors, private equity firm Greybull Capital and HSBC-backed Saudi British Bank, the Financial Times reported...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    Romford is still London now. Essex doesn't start until Epping Forest and Brentwood and arguably even then Chigwell, Loughton, Buckhurst Hill and Brentwood are more suburban outer London than county Essex really
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314
    Scott_xP said:

    @ftukpolitics: Brexit could be reversed — here’s how
    https://on.ft.com/3I0eNHf

    By subscribing to the FT?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    FPT but worth a bigger audience

    Starmer found a reason to expel Corbyn from the PLP. That is why noone fears a Corbynista comeback. He has crushed them as a political force.

    On his first day as PM Sunak should have taken a leaf out of Johnson's book and chucked Johnson and 5 or 10 of his most craven sycophants out.

    It had risks but it was probably his best (or maybe his only) chance of turning the page and having an opportunity of retaining power at the GE.

    Because even if Lab miss out on a majority if Starmer walks into No 10 then that is a defeat. Full stop. Ask Gordon Brown or the ghost of Ted Heath about how the other side not getting a majority counts as a 'good defeat'. Corbyn coud claim it for a while but with hindsight it doesn't look so good does it?


    The issue here is that Sunak seems to wish to allow process to occur and be followed.

    So it comes down to what does Sunak do when the standard committee issues their report into Boris and he is suspended for a period of time.

    The best approach for Sunak would be to throw him out of the party and Parliament but will he be in a position to do so.,
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560
    Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    Isn’t slander “oral” defamation and libel “written” defamation?
  • Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    What’s the difference between defamation, libel and slander?

    People are often confused about this. In fact, libel and slander are simply the two kinds of defamation. Libel is defamation in written form. So, defamatory comments on websites and in emails are examples of internet libel. Whereas slander is defamation in verbal form, e.g. as contained an audio recording.

    https://www.adlexsolicitors.co.uk/what-we-do/content-removal/internet-defamation/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512

    @JosiasJessop I just remembered my favourite signpost when I lived in Ely about 35 years ago - to Prickwillow and Grunty Fen (I was only ten years old!)

    Have you ever run in the Grunty Fen half marathon?

    No, never. In fact I've never done an 'official' run (the sort where you get timed and medals). I'm a lone runner, really.

    I love the Fens. There's a majesty about them that is much under-appreciated.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    edited February 2023

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    MaxPB said:

    Hogwarts Legacy seems to be reviewing well. Been looking forwards to this for probably 20 years, glad they didn't fuck it up and it's a PS5 game rather than PS3 or PS4 because it needs the power. Expect Twitter screeching to reach a crescendo in the next few days and JKR to take a victory lap or two and dunk on the idiot activists who have been wishing this game to fail.

    Farage is now the Lesser Satan to Rowling’s Great Satan.

    These twats don’t realise, they’re just driving sales of the game, and adding to her fortune.
  • Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    The right to build new stuff outweighs your right for nothing to change?
    It shouldn't; that way lies genteel decline, and every house was an open field once. But it's sort of understandable, and any solution had to work around the grain of that mindset.

    £#&@ knows how, though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314
    Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    I think you'll find that on a website full of lawyers, it's best to avoid being pompous about the law.

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Documents/Judgments/mcalpine-bercow-judgment-24052013.pdf
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    The IFS has called to cap the tax free lump sum out of pension pots at £100,000.

    It would affect 1 in 4.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11718135/Cap-25-pension-tax-free-lump-sum-100k-says-IFS.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited February 2023

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    The right to build new stuff outweighs your right for nothing to change?
    Generally yes but with exceptions.

    No you shouldn’t be able to buy a house across the road from the village cricket ground, and then complain about stray balls in your garden. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/01/09/colehill-cricket-club-banned-playing-neighbour-complains-flying/

    The old joke about the American tourist at Windsor Castle - “It’s a lovely place, but why did they have to build it so damn close to the airport?”

    Planning in general needs to be much more liberal.
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    When I lived in Wiltshire it was quite common for here middle class emigres to the area (a) banging on about the “destruction of industry in the U.K.”, (b) how proud they were of their efforts to stop local businesses expanding/setting up.

    Aside from blocking the Dyson expansion, there was a farmer trying to turn a large, quadrangle of buildings into a small business area. If he had proposed a concentration camp, it would have been more popular with the incomers…
    They're being selfish, but they're also being rational; incomers bought what they thought was a rural idyll, that's under threat and they are unlikely to benefit from the incomers coming in. There's a similar dynamic in Romford, where escapees from London can feel London expanding to swallow them up again.

    The art of a good system is to make people do good things without them having to be particularly virtuous themselves. Non-spivvy capitalism, for example. So what would that look like for planning?
    Romford is still London now. Essex doesn't start until Epping Forest and Brentwood and arguably even then Chigwell, Loughton, Buckhurst Hill and Brentwood are more suburban outer London than county Essex really
    Politically and practically, yes. But in the souls and spirits of many Romfordites, moving out of East London is how they knew they had made it; if Daddy Kray had moved to Gidea Park, his boys wouldn't have turned bad, that sort of thing.

    The fear of being swallowed by the London blob is real, and our elected representatives play on it pretty shamelessly.
  • Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    Defamation is when a person or organisation uses language to ruin the reputation of a person or business. Slander is spoken defamation. Written defamation, or libel, is anything published or broadcast.

    https://www.irwinmitchell.com/personal/protecting-your-rights/resolving-disputes/defamation-slander
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Taz said:

    The IFS has called to cap the tax free lump sum out of pension pots at £100,000.

    It would affect 1 in 4.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11718135/Cap-25-pension-tax-free-lump-sum-100k-says-IFS.html

    Talk about giving high-income, high-taxpaying workers a massive incentive to take early retirement.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    FPT
    WillG said:



    Also the criminal Russian regime has carried out extensive ethnic cleansing and the kidnapping of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children since 2014. There is no way any result prior to the return of all refugees is morally acceptable.

    Some here have predicted the Tory party might go full-on QAnon after a Starmer victory. This misses several points:

    1. Much of the Tory membership is at least halfway there already. These are people whose parents and grandparents brought them up to believe that worker militancy in Britain would hardly have existed without foreign funding, and that the BBC, trendy vicars, etc., are all in a big conspiracy against white supremacy the proper way of doing things, and against inherited wealth, and it all started when black people started to get jobs as newsreaders and who can forget the famous Coca-Cola advertisement "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", and Rishi Sunak, enough said. Brexit? Where's the raw meat you promised us?

    2. Worry more about the British state propaganda units (GIC, CDU, 77th - and that's by no means a full list) getting orders to go full-on QAnon.

    3. Remember Alastair Campbell, 45 minutes, the Iraqi WMD lie, and all the propaganda on the home front that was used to support the criminal war against Iraq that caused at least 600000 deaths? A war between NATO and Russia would turn nuclear within a week or two. You have to multiply the propaganda up. Said units tend to have, shall we say, special flagger status at Faecesbook and Sh*tter, and the majority of the population have already been conditioned into thinking it's people who don't spout the government line on the war who are dangerous loonies or traitors. Imagine another Douma job and then some.

    4. Consider the assertion that wicked Russians are kidnapping hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children. Let's skate over the strange use of the word "kidnapping". (Whether or not you send a ransom note, "kidnapping" usually means you may give the captives back if you get what you want, or at least that you may give that impression.) Is this assertion any saner than the ravings of Pizzagaters?

    The population of the 4 territories that entered Russia in 2014 (9y ago) is about 9m; of those that entered in 2022 (1y ago), about 3m. The birth rate is about 9 per 1000 people. So we're talking (9*9*9 + 1*3*9)*1000 = 756000 births, say 750000. "Hundreds of thousands" means at least 200000. To spare WillG's blushes, let's say it means exactly 200000. After all, we already assumed Russia took the whole of the Zaporozhe region which it didn't. (It hasn't captured the regional capital which has a population of about 700000.) So we are trying to be kind here. If the assertion is correct, the evil Russians have "kidnapped" a number of children equal to at least 27% of all live births. They must really want those Ukrainian children in their clutches. Can't trust types like that. Can only bomb them. Cleanliness and morality require it. Truth is that Tories don't give a flying f*** about foreign babies, or about British chav babies for that matter. This is WAR LUST.



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not (I didn't follow the story particularly closely) ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
  • Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    no you won't.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    EPG said:

    Taz said:

    The IFS has called to cap the tax free lump sum out of pension pots at £100,000.

    It would affect 1 in 4.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11718135/Cap-25-pension-tax-free-lump-sum-100k-says-IFS.html

    Talk about giving high-income, high-taxpaying workers a massive incentive to take early retirement.
    They have already tinkered with it a few times and the lifetime allowance being cut to its current level was one of the reasons given for GP's and Dentists retiring early.


    https://elselaw.co.uk/why-gps-and-dentists-are-now-retiring-in-their-50s-for-just-24-hours/#:~:text=A quirk in a current NHS practitioners pension,continue to remain employed on their existing contract.
  • Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
    As a local example: there’s a large plot of land less than 500m from Oxford railway station that is currently being occupied by a calor gas distribution & storage centre. This is the dumbest place you could think of to put such a thing: an egregious waste of land. Next door to it is a warehouse that’s been empty for at least a decade, completely unused, except when the car rental place next door “borrowed” some of the land to park their cars on it until the landowner got annoyed & put fences up.

    Supposedly the whole area is up for redevelopment & is going through the planning process, but meanwhile this industrial land that has already been levelled & has power & utilities delivered just sits there, basically unused, for year after year after year. It’s criminal frankly.
    Often when an area is up for redevelopment, the land uses tend to be low-value, low-commitment, easily movable. No point building and servicing a specialised microchip foundry for 18 months.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    The PM was not a non-dom, his wife was and is no longer.

    The poster wrote “ And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.” clearly stating that the PM, Rishi Sunak, is (not even was) a non-dom and is tax dodging.

    Now Heathener might have some knowledge that His Majesty’s Press have not discovered yet but if not it’s something that should not be claimed falsely in order to have a dig at the Tories surely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
    Depends on context.
    I might dodge tax by taking out an ISA, just as a non dom dodges tax by virtue of that status.

    Unless something actually libellous is attached, then it's not.

    (In which context, I'm grateful for the correction about Sunak himself.)
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
    Depends on context.
    I might dodge tax by taking out an ISA, just as a non dom dodges tax by virtue of that status.

    Unless something actually libellous is attached, then it's not.

    (In which context, I'm grateful for the correction about Sunak himself.)
    I am guessing you are not a lawyer?

    I am.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Nippy still unable to extricate herself from the mess of her own making...

    @LucyHunterB: RT @DalgetySusan: In the context of reality, the “individual” Adam Graham is a man, recently convicted of two rapes. Why can’t our “f… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622582413439250433
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    DJ41a said:

    FPT

    WillG said:



    Also the criminal Russian regime has carried out extensive ethnic cleansing and the kidnapping of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children since 2014. There is no way any result prior to the return of all refugees is morally acceptable.

    Some here have predicted the Tory party might go full-on QAnon after a Starmer victory. This misses several points:

    1. Much of the Tory membership is at least halfway there already. These are people whose parents and grandparents brought them up to believe that worker militancy in Britain would hardly have existed without foreign funding, and that the BBC, trendy vicars, etc., are all in a big conspiracy against white supremacy the proper way of doing things, and against inherited wealth, and it all started when black people started to get jobs as newsreaders and who can forget the famous Coca-Cola advertisement "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", and Rishi Sunak, enough said. Brexit? Where's the raw meat you promised us?

    2. Worry more about the British state propaganda units (GIC, CDU, 77th - and that's by no means a full list) getting orders to go full-on QAnon.

    3. Remember Alastair Campbell, 45 minutes, the Iraqi WMD lie, and all the propaganda on the home front that was used to support the criminal war against Iraq that caused at least 600000 deaths? A war between NATO and Russia would turn nuclear within a week or two. You have to multiply the propaganda up. Said units tend to have, shall we say, special flagger status at Faecesbook and Sh*tter, and the majority of the population have already been conditioned into thinking it's people who don't spout the government line on the war who are dangerous loonies or traitors. Imagine another Douma job and then some.

    4. Consider the assertion that wicked Russians are kidnapping hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children. Let's skate over the strange use of the word "kidnapping". (Whether or not you send a ransom note, "kidnapping" usually means you may give the captives back if you get what you want, or at least that you may give that impression.) Is this assertion any saner than the ravings of Pizzagaters?

    The population of the 4 territories that entered Russia in 2014 (9y ago) is about 9m; of those that entered in 2022 (1y ago), about 3m. The birth rate is about 9 per 1000 people. So we're talking (9*9*9 + 1*3*9)*1000 = 756000 births, say 750000. "Hundreds of thousands" means at least 200000. To spare WillG's blushes, let's say it means exactly 200000. After all, we already assumed Russia took the whole of the Zaporozhe region which it didn't. (It hasn't captured the regional capital which has a population of about 700000.) So we are trying to be kind here. If the assertion is correct, the evil Russians have "kidnapped" a number of children equal to at least 27% of all live births. They must really want those Ukrainian children in their clutches. Can't trust types like that. Can only bomb them. Cleanliness and morality require it. Truth is that Tories don't give a flying f*** about foreign babies, or about British chav babies for that matter. This is WAR LUST.

    The only war lost shown is by the bloodthirsty Russians, who have shot dead pensioners and used rape as a weapon of war. Russian culture is so thoroughly brutalized, Russian women give permission to their husbands to rape Ukrainians.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wanted-off-skin-ukrainian-women-recount-rape-russian/story?id=86994779

    As has been shown by Russia's repeated aggression, breaking of the 1994 Treaty on Ukrainian sovereignty and numerous ceasefire breaks, Russia can not be trusted. Peace and safety can only be guaranteed by Russian defeat and the elimination of Russian fighting capacity. The nuclear threats are a paper tiger - Putin is such a weak emasculated figure he can not even order a full mobilization.

    So ignore the rantings of the drooling Russian shills. They are quivering in their knowledge they will become cucks to the Chinese.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Nippy still unable to extricate herself from the mess of her own making...

    @LucyHunterB: RT @DalgetySusan: In the context of reality, the “individual” Adam Graham is a man, recently convicted of two rapes. Why can’t our “f… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622582413439250433

    It's bizarre. One could always confidently predict that an hypothetical Isla Bryson would pop up to embarrass her within a matter of months; turns out there was an actual one all along, and she must have known about him.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
    Depends on context.
    I might dodge tax by taking out an ISA, just as a non dom dodges tax by virtue of that status.

    Unless something actually libellous is attached, then it's not.

    (In which context, I'm grateful for the correction about Sunak himself.)
    The use of “tax dodging” in this context was clearly to be critical and suggest incorrect behaviour, if referring to tax dodging in relation to managing financial affairs within the scope of tax laws such as using an ISA then the criticism would be completely pointless as there would be nothing to criticise however it’s pretty clear the comment was made in order to blacken Sunak’s reputation.

    Of course the poster could spend the next few hours criticising every politician who “tax dodges” in the way you put it but then it would be a very long post needed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Has MARY ELIZABETH "LIZ" TRUSS been reinstalled as PRIME MINISTER yet?

    The Truss:

    The Mother. The Queen. The Future.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    The PM was not a non-dom, his wife was and is no longer.

    The poster wrote “ And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.” clearly stating that the PM, Rishi Sunak, is (not even was) a non-dom and is tax dodging.

    Now Heathener might have some knowledge that His Majesty’s Press have not discovered yet but if not it’s something that should not be claimed falsely in order to have a dig at the Tories surely.
    Or was simply mistaken.

    Is "non dom" libellous, if untrue ? Interesting question, since it's a status legally recognised and defended by the government. In this case, possibly.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,337
    EPG said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
    As a local example: there’s a large plot of land less than 500m from Oxford railway station that is currently being occupied by a calor gas distribution & storage centre. This is the dumbest place you could think of to put such a thing: an egregious waste of land. Next door to it is a warehouse that’s been empty for at least a decade, completely unused, except when the car rental place next door “borrowed” some of the land to park their cars on it until the landowner got annoyed & put fences up.

    Supposedly the whole area is up for redevelopment & is going through the planning process, but meanwhile this industrial land that has already been levelled & has power & utilities delivered just sits there, basically unused, for year after year after year. It’s criminal frankly.
    Often when an area is up for redevelopment, the land uses tend to be low-value, low-commitment, easily movable. No point building and servicing a specialised microchip foundry for 18 months.
    Sure, but a) this has been the use this land has been put for something like 30+ years at this point, long before there was any concrete plan to redevelop the area and b) the delays in pushing through the permissions in the planning process is exactly the problem I am complaining about here!

    In the case of the adjacent site, it’s derelict & has been for more than a decade. Is there some way the landowner gets to avoid paying council tax / business rates on such a site? Because that’s the only way I can imagine a landowner simply letting a site like this go to rot.
  • Has MARY ELIZABETH "LIZ" TRUSS been reinstalled as PRIME MINISTER yet?

    The Truss:

    The Mother. The Queen. The Future.

    Those Christian names are telling us something, sure.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Nigelb said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    This squares with what the Paragraf CEO was saying about the problems with trying to grow a new chip business in the UK.

    We've been very bad at facilitating growth industries. It requires thinking beyond a parliamentary term (or in Truss's case, a couple of weeks).
    I think that’s a little unfair in this particular case. Willets was effective in pushing the expansion - I spend time at Sanger, Hinxton and Babraham all of which are great. But there has been an explosion of science over the last 10 years that was faster than planned - the new expansion plans take time
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    I think you'll find that online defamation is slander, not libel.
    I think you'll find that on a website full of lawyers, it's best to avoid being pompous about the law.
    Fair enough. I can't compete.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
    Depends on context.
    I might dodge tax by taking out an ISA, just as a non dom dodges tax by virtue of that status.

    Unless something actually libellous is attached, then it's not.

    (In which context, I'm grateful for the correction about Sunak himself.)
    Legally minimising tax isn't dodging it, surely? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tax-dodge

    "an illegal method used to reduce the amount of tax that a person or company has to pay"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Has MARY ELIZABETH "LIZ" TRUSS been reinstalled as PRIME MINISTER yet?

    The Truss:

    The Mother. The Queen. The Future.

    Those Christian names are telling us something, sure.
    Absolutely. Nominative determinism in action.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Phil said:

    EPG said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    A big problem for the UK IMO:

    "There is demand for a million sqft of labs around cambridge. 10,000 is available."

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1622287053235916802

    There should be a plan to allow Cambridge to expand without putting too much pressure on the historical centre by creating a second or third hub.
    The Oxford<->Cambridge corridor has so much potential & as far as I can tell development companies are champing at the bit to build facilities but the process to get everything lined up just seems to be excruciatingly slow. The underuse of land is just shocking.
    As a local example: there’s a large plot of land less than 500m from Oxford railway station that is currently being occupied by a calor gas distribution & storage centre. This is the dumbest place you could think of to put such a thing: an egregious waste of land. Next door to it is a warehouse that’s been empty for at least a decade, completely unused, except when the car rental place next door “borrowed” some of the land to park their cars on it until the landowner got annoyed & put fences up.

    Supposedly the whole area is up for redevelopment & is going through the planning process, but meanwhile this industrial land that has already been levelled & has power & utilities delivered just sits there, basically unused, for year after year after year. It’s criminal frankly.
    Often when an area is up for redevelopment, the land uses tend to be low-value, low-commitment, easily movable. No point building and servicing a specialised microchip foundry for 18 months.
    Sure, but a) this has been the use this land has been put for something like 30+ years at this point, long before there was any concrete plan to redevelop the area and b) the delays in pushing through the permissions in the planning process is exactly the problem I am complaining about here!

    In the case of the adjacent site, it’s derelict & has been for more than a decade. Is there some way the landowner gets to avoid paying council tax / business rates on such a site? Because that’s the only way I can imagine a landowner simply letting a site like this go to rot.
    Interesting. It seems the specific problems there are fragmented landowners for whom it made no individual sense to invest in the required flooding mitigation, plus the usual NIMBY lobby against any new housing or more intensive use of sites in otherwise residential areas.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    The PM was not a non-dom, his wife was and is no longer.

    The poster wrote “ And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.” clearly stating that the PM, Rishi Sunak, is (not even was) a non-dom and is tax dodging.

    Now Heathener might have some knowledge that His Majesty’s Press have not discovered yet but if not it’s something that should not be claimed falsely in order to have a dig at the Tories surely.
    Or was simply mistaken.

    Is "non dom" libellous, if untrue ? Interesting question, since it's a status legally recognised and defended by the government. In this case, possibly.
    In that it's intended to convey disqualification for the role of PM due to a lack of commitment to the country, I would think so.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @BloombergUK: House builders slam the brakes on construction as a surge in mortgage interest rates causes activity in the UK prop… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622586958676471808
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    He didn't, his wife did.

    "Tax dodging" is easily capable of being defamatory.
    Depends on context.
    I might dodge tax by taking out an ISA, just as a non dom dodges tax by virtue of that status.

    Unless something actually libellous is attached, then it's not.

    (In which context, I'm grateful for the correction about Sunak himself.)
    The use of “tax dodging” in this context was clearly to be critical and suggest incorrect behaviour, if referring to tax dodging in relation to managing financial affairs within the scope of tax laws such as using an ISA then the criticism would be completely pointless as there would be nothing to criticise however it’s pretty clear the comment was made in order to blacken Sunak’s reputation.

    Of course the poster could spend the next few hours criticising every politician who “tax dodges” in the way you put it but then it would be a very long post needed.
    It would have been a great deal simpler to say that Heathener was simply wrong in assuming Sunak's, as opposed to his wife's non dom status (which on checking I see she appears to have now given up).

    Indicating disapproval of someone who did hold non dom status by calling it tax dodging isn't libellous.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    EPG said:

    Taz said:

    The IFS has called to cap the tax free lump sum out of pension pots at £100,000.

    It would affect 1 in 4.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11718135/Cap-25-pension-tax-free-lump-sum-100k-says-IFS.html

    Talk about giving high-income, high-taxpaying workers a massive incentive to take early retirement.
    At the same time as the government is trying to work out a strategy to get all of the fifty somethings that took retirement during the pandemic, to go back to work.
  • That case would be lost in the court of public opinion before it ever came to the legal court. Mr Sunak might not be the deftest of politicians but I don't think he'd make that mistake
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    The Conservatives have lost the plot…..non-dom tax dodging PM.

    Evidently not the only ones.

    You’d have thought someone who “has been on national TV and written articles for national newspapers” would have a passing a acquaintance with the laws of libel and the consequences for breaching them.
    Mind you given the defamatory nature of some of the comments made on PB.COM about JKR recently, I wonder if the Mod team here are taking a more laid back approach.

    I would have thought they would have been all over anything risky. Like the comment you refer to.
    The PM had non dom status, did he not ?
    That enables by its nature the dodging of some tax.
    That's not defamation, but fact.

    The word "dodge" might indicate strong disapproval, but it falls way short if anything which might be termed defamation.

    I suspect the same is true of the other "defamatory" comments you complain of - though that's just a guess.
    The PM was not a non-dom, his wife was and is no longer.

    The poster wrote “ And all made worse by having a stinking rich totally out of touch non-dom tax dodging PM.” clearly stating that the PM, Rishi Sunak, is (not even was) a non-dom and is tax dodging.

    Now Heathener might have some knowledge that His Majesty’s Press have not discovered yet but if not it’s something that should not be claimed falsely in order to have a dig at the Tories surely.
    Or was simply mistaken.

    Is "non dom" libellous, if untrue ? Interesting question, since it's a status legally recognised and defended by the government. In this case, possibly.
    In the case of a PM, who has occasionally been accused of a lack of commitment to the UK ( eg the Green Card nonsense) it certainly would be.
    For a non political foreigner living here possibly not.
This discussion has been closed.