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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    DavidL said:

    DougSeal said:

    TimS said:

    DougSeal said:

    TimS said:

    Looks like the Tories are well placed to clean up in Lincolnshire. Can Labour ever win again if they can’t make progress in Lincs?

    "We'll always have Lincolnshire!"
    Lincolnshire’s weird anyway. Where does one group it? It’s not East Anglia, it’s certainly not Yorkshire, and when one says “East Midlands” one thinks of Notts and Derby, not Lincs. It doesn’t really fit anywhere in the vernacular geography of English regions.
    Suitable redoubt for the ‘last of the Tories’. Finally, a use has been found for it.
    Though quite possibly a hotbed of Refuk too.
    There was a stage in my life when I was going up and down the Lincolnshire A1 a lot. The most noticeable thing was the way that all the Little Chefs had been turned into sex shops;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48387010
    Yes - I noticed that when I was driving up to York in September. What’s that all about?
    Birds and bees IIRC.
    Lots of tractor enthusiasts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited January 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tories in crisis as party's chief executive and treasurer dragged into tax dodging row

    Tory treasurer Graham Edwards was found to have used a tax avoidance scheme, while the party's chief executive Stephen Massey still works for a firm that helps the rich slash their tax bills

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-crisis-partys-chief-executive-29090104

    What finance or accountancy firm doesn't help its rich clients cut their tax bills? If a tax avoidance scheme is legal so what?

    What a ludicrous non story. That is what people expect Tories to do, it would only be relevant and hypocrisy if Labour people did it
    I, er, agree with HYUFD. At least on the Massey story. Working for a firm that advises rich people on tax schemes, even if aggressive and even if at the morally questionable end of the spectrum, is not comparable with “carelessly” failing to declare capital gains in the manner of Zahawi.
    On the other hand, the Tory Party is supposed to be working for the UK not the other way round.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    dixiedean said:

    Ipsos: 1% of respondents say that Prince Andrew is their favourite royal.

    Surely taking the piss?

    Nonces have a right to take part in polling, too.
    6 men and 2 women responded Prince Andrew. Can women be nonces?
    Yes. Look it up.
  • Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/
  • Indeed.


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960

    Indeed.


    What a load of rubbish, legal tax scenes which Tories support are not promoting family values while committing adultery
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious.

    Globally the average under 50 year old Christian lives in sub Saharan Africa or Latin America now not Europe.

    100 years ago most Christians lived in Europe
  • HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious.

    Globally the average under 50 year old Christian lives in sub Saharan Africa or Latin America now not Europe.

    100 years ago most Christians lived in Europe
    2000 years ago, most Christians lived in Asia (and a bit in Africa).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Off topic, but I think many will be pleased by Max Boot's conclusion: "As an unsentimental practitioner of realpolitik, Xi does not want to wind up on what could be the losing side. The Financial Times reports, based on conversations with Chinese officials, that “China now perceives a likelihood that Russia will fail to prevail against Ukraine and emerge from the conflict a ‘minor power,’ much diminished economically and diplomatically on the world stage.”
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/30/china-russia-ukraine-xi-putin/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    God doesn't exist. He told me personally!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    If that last were the explanation, the situatioin would exhibit a steadyt state,. Indeed, as the population/age distrubition curve changes with time, there should be an *increase* in religion as the population ages. Ergo, it'#s not nearly enough to compensate for people dumping religion.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    God doesn't exist. He told me personally!
    That's not what he told me!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious.

    Globally the average under 50 year old Christian lives in sub Saharan Africa or Latin America now not Europe.

    100 years ago most Christians lived in Europe
    2000 years ago, most Christians lived in Asia (and a bit in Africa).
    Indeed, the religion started in the Middle East of course we sometimes forget
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited January 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Tories in crisis as party's chief executive and treasurer dragged into tax dodging row

    Tory treasurer Graham Edwards was found to have used a tax avoidance scheme, while the party's chief executive Stephen Massey still works for a firm that helps the rich slash their tax bills

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-crisis-partys-chief-executive-29090104

    What finance or accountancy firm doesn't help its rich clients cut their tax bills? If a tax avoidance scheme is legal so what?

    What a ludicrous non story. That is what people expect Tories to do, it would only be relevant and hypocrisy if Labour people did it
    "Thou shalt not steal" - The Bible.
    Quite.

    Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. 16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. 17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    Stamford is on the railway, albeit not a main line.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    Indeed, I must find my copy and reread it.

    Cromarty in Scotland is another nice example of not getting the railway.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    Issa (Jesus) is regarded as a prophet, not the Messiah in Islam as I understand.
  • Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    My messiah and prophet Is Jurgen Klopp.

    Liverpool FC is my religion.

    Anfield is my cathedral.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.


    If you are early to mid 80s though and not with bad dementia you are retired, your children have long left home, your body isn't fit enough to play most sports or go to the gym. So Sunday morning Church of England services are also a good social activity where you will meet lots of your own age group
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited January 2023

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Interesting documentary on BBC2 about the background to Ukraine. Well worth a watch.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    God doesn't exist. He told me personally!
    Testing your faith.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    DavidL said:

    Interesting documentary on BBC2 about the background to Ukraine. Well worth a watch.

    Yes indeed. Great background stuff.
  • Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.


    Ben you would be very welcome here in Lincolnshire. I can strongly recommend the villages along the Lincolnshire edge. A few miles from the East Coast mainline stations at Newark and Grantham but unaffected by commuter belt madness when it comes to house prices. Lots of Georgian houses of all sizes. Of course you might have to wear a false beard to hide that weak Remainary chin ;)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.


    If you are early to mid 80s though and not with bad dementia you are retired, your children have long left home, your body isn't fit enough to play most sports. So Sunday morning Church of England services are also a good social activity where you will meet lots of your own age group
    Also explains the Conservative local association membership?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
  • Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.


    If you are early to mid 80s though and not with bad dementia you are retired, your children have long left home, your body isn't fit enough to play most sports. So Sunday morning Church of England services are also a good social activity where you will meet lots of your own age group
    Also explains the Conservative local association membership?
    Yep we also have a number of over 80s, including one widower whose main involvement in the party is chatting up widows at social events!!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious.

    Globally the average under 50 year old Christian lives in sub Saharan Africa or Latin America now not Europe.

    100 years ago most Christians lived in Europe
    2000 years ago, most Christians lived in Asia (and a bit in Africa).
    Indeed, the religion started in the Middle East of course we sometimes forget
    Think you might have got the spelling wrong there. There is, afterall, no 'we' in 'I' :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    Issa (Jesus) is regarded as a prophet, not the Messiah in Islam as I understand.
    The Koran describes Jesus as the Messiah
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#:~:text=In the Quran, Jesus is,was miraculously saved by God.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting documentary on BBC2 about the background to Ukraine. Well worth a watch.

    Yes indeed. Great background stuff.
    Not a great performance by Obama frankly. Embarrassing in retrospect.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
    So why is Louth and Horncastle listed in deep purple (no guitar riffs please) in the list? Weird.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    L and H are 3rd in the list of least Bregretful, B and S is the least of all, so darkest Purple.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
    So why is Louth and Horncastle listed in deep purple (no guitar riffs please) in the list? Weird.
    I don't know why the text is highlighted, but the map is correctly coloured.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    My messiah and prophet Is Jurgen Klopp.

    Liverpool FC is my religion.

    Anfield is my cathedral.
    And your favourite player?
    Bet it's that Mohamed chap.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited January 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    My messiah and prophet Is Jurgen Klopp.

    Liverpool FC is my religion.

    Anfield is my cathedral.
    And your favourite player?
    Bet it's that Mohamed chap.
    Alisson Becker is my favourite player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmvJ3KqUEcI
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
    So why is Louth and Horncastle listed in deep purple (no guitar riffs please) in the list? Weird.
    I don't know why the text is highlighted, but the map is correctly coloured.
    I know. That was my point. The text is highlighted incorrectly and doesn't match the map.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.


    Ben you would be very welcome here in Lincolnshire. I can strongly recommend the villages along the Lincolnshire edge. A few miles from the East Coast mainline stations at Newark and Grantham but unaffected by commuter belt madness when it comes to house prices. Lots of Georgian houses of all sizes. Of course you might have to wear a false beard to hide that weak Remainary chin ;)
    That's very kind. As a true Guardianista I have had a beard for 40 years so my weak Remainery chin is well-hidden (unfortunately the sandals may give me away though).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
    So why is Louth and Horncastle listed in deep purple (no guitar riffs please) in the list? Weird.
    Probably just smoke on the water.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    For those wanting a slimmed down monarchy, look no further than Kate.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    My messiah and prophet Is Jurgen Klopp.

    Liverpool FC is my religion.

    Anfield is my cathedral.
    And your favourite player?
    Bet it's that Mohamed chap.
    Alisson Becker is my favourite player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmvJ3KqUEcI
    That is a most fabulous goal - fair enough.
    PS: don't let the trans brigade get started on Allison Becker.
  • Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.


    Ben you would be very welcome here in Lincolnshire. I can strongly recommend the villages along the Lincolnshire edge. A few miles from the East Coast mainline stations at Newark and Grantham but unaffected by commuter belt madness when it comes to house prices. Lots of Georgian houses of all sizes. Of course you might have to wear a false beard to hide that weak Remainary chin ;)
    That's very kind. As a true Guardianista I have had a beard for 40 years so my weak Remainery chin is well-hidden (unfortunately the sandals may give me away though).
    This is Lincolnshire. You'll be knee deep in manure so no one will notice the sandals :)
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Louth and Horncastle LOL.


    Tbf Victoria Atkins might be a good bet for next leader of the conservative party if they end up with 20 or so seats.
    That map is shit. The constituency highlighted as Louth and Horncastle - isn't.
    It isn't highlighted, just that Boston and Skegness is even more Brexity.
    In the key of the top ten Remainer constituencies only one is highlighted as 'strongly disagree' and that is Louth and Horncastle. The others are all coloured 'mildly disagree'
    Boston and Skegness is listed as least Bregretful, hence deepest purple.

    It is @StuartDickson that brought up Louth and Horncastle.
    So why is Louth and Horncastle listed in deep purple (no guitar riffs please) in the list? Weird.
    Probably just smoke on the water.
    Hush
  • DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting documentary on BBC2 about the background to Ukraine. Well worth a watch.

    Yes indeed. Great background stuff.
    Not a great performance by Obama frankly. Embarrassing in retrospect.
    Probably distracted by Dave tearfully imploring him to intervene over indy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting documentary on BBC2 about the background to Ukraine. Well worth a watch.

    Yes indeed. Great background stuff.
    Not a great performance by Obama frankly. Embarrassing in retrospect.
    Probably distracted by Dave tearfully imploring him to intervene over indy.
    Nah just typical of his complete lack of interest in Europe. He was always far more interested in the Pacific.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scottish media (or some of it, at any rate) finally trying to hold Sturgeon to account:

    I asked @NicolaSturgeon if she could substantiate her remarks about some opponents of gender recognition reform being misogynistic, homophobic and racist?

    Ms Sturgeon says she’s not suggesting opponents are ‘by definition badly motivated’ and was talking in ‘general terms’.
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1620146295716581376
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    Issa (Jesus) is regarded as a prophet, not the Messiah in Islam as I understand.
    He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Paging Leon!

    Mysterious 'whirlpool' appears in the night sky above Hawaii

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-64458511
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mother's favourite politicians were Tony Benn and Margaret Thatcher.
    No wonder I'm so fucked up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Though even though most graduates over 70 voted Remain (albeit if only a small cohort of that overwhelmingly pro Brexit age group) they also still mostly voted Tory in 2019 like the rest of their age group
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited January 2023
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mother voted LibDem in the council elections, the first non-Tory vote of a lifetime. Deserting at the GE might still be a step too far, Tho.

    Immediately after the referendum, she told me she voted Remain, but she is now convinced she voted Leave, but regrets it. I keep telling her she actually did the right thing, but it doesn’t seem to stick. I think Tory and Leave are closely linked in her mind now - in a way that they weren’t back then - and she has persuaded herself that she must have voted that way in 2016.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited January 2023
    Adam Curtis's documentary about Russia between 1985 and 1999 is on BBC4 atm. It was only on iPlayer when originally released a couple of months ago, but people like Matthew Parris gave it excellent reviews so maybe that persuaded the BBC to give it a TV slot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Plenty of boomer remainers in our village.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Plenty of boomer remainers in our village.
    Yeah. It's often overdone.
    3 in 10 voters in Boston voted Remain. It's not like any place or demographic was unanimous.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Plenty of boomer remainers in our village.
    Yeah. It's often overdone.
    3 in 10 voters in Boston voted Remain. It's not like any place or demographic was unanimous.
    You forget Gibraltar.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Plenty of boomer remainers in our village.
    Yeah. It's often overdone.
    3 in 10 voters in Boston voted Remain. It's not like any place or demographic was unanimous.
    You forget Gibraltar.
    I'm not Nadhim Zahawi.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mid 70s parents are now both Lib Dem voters, my mother having finally come over from the blue side after the Brexit vote even though the Tories departed from her ideologically years before that. The interesting thing is they are in their own boomer remainer bubble. Just about all of their friends (most of many decades) are also devout remainers. So the demographic certainly exists.
    Plenty of boomer remainers in our village.
    Yeah. It's often overdone.
    3 in 10 voters in Boston voted Remain. It's not like any place or demographic was unanimous.
    Indeed, 25% of voters in Camden and 30% of voters in Oxford voted Leave too
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023
    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mother voted LibDem in the council elections, the first non-Tory vote of a lifetime. Deserting at the GE might still be a step too far, Tho.

    Immediately after the referendum, she told me she voted Remain, but she is now convinced she voted Leave, but regrets it. I keep telling her she actually did the right thing, but it doesn’t seem to stick. I think Tory and Leave are closely linked in her mind now - in a way that they weren’t back then - and she has persuaded herself that she must have voted that way in 2016.
    Lots of pensioners vote LD locally (LD councillors and council candidates tend to be NIMBY and claim to get the potholes done) and Tory nationally in my experience
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Off topic, but I think many will be pleased by Max Boot's conclusion: "As an unsentimental practitioner of realpolitik, Xi does not want to wind up on what could be the losing side. The Financial Times reports, based on conversations with Chinese officials, that “China now perceives a likelihood that Russia will fail to prevail against Ukraine and emerge from the conflict a ‘minor power,’ much diminished economically and diplomatically on the world stage.”
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/30/china-russia-ukraine-xi-putin/

    On the contrary, that seems great for China. Russia becomes a de facto Chinese protectorate in the same way that Ukraine has become an American one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mother voted LibDem in the council elections, the first non-Tory vote of a lifetime. Deserting at the GE might still be a step too far, Tho.

    Immediately after the referendum, she told me she voted Remain, but she is now convinced she voted Leave, but regrets it. I keep telling her she actually did the right thing, but it doesn’t seem to stick. I think Tory and Leave are closely linked in her mind now - in a way that they weren’t back then - and she has persuaded herself that she must have voted that way in 2016.
    Lots of pensioners vote LD locally (LD councillors and council candidates tend to be NIMBY and claim to get the potholes done) and Tory nationally in my experience
    The point about my mother - Tory member for most of her life - is that it was the first time, despite my 24 years as a LibDem councillor myself. Although she did always say she’d vote for me if I stood in her ward!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Paging Leon!

    Mysterious 'whirlpool' appears in the night sky above Hawaii

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-64458511

    SpaceX F9 upper upstage, venting - just from the description.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
    Nottingham got the mainline railway at the ideal time to trigger a big boom in Victorian industry and slum housing. Similar happened to other towns, some of which only really exist at the scale they do because of the railway. Meanwhile Stamford missed the main line despite being of a similar size and close by, so it remained a handsome mediaeval and Georgian town.

    You can see the same effect with the airports. The inner Thames Valley and Surrey, as well as the area around Crawley, chock full of post war trading estates, business parks and detached 60s-90s housing. Or earlier still the cities that grew up around ports.

    Not sure why York escaped the industry. Perhaps because there was already plenty in the West Yorkshire coalfields.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Can we hold the AV referendum again? I think voters got that one wrong.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Hmm, that is another way iof saying that the C of E etc is going down the spout, like pigeon-racing, prgramming in Fortran, and other sports of the elderly. The Graun has it a rather different way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/census-data-england-wales-uk-non-religious-future-campaigners
    Still 9.8 million UK Christians under 40 though.

    Plus as people get older they tend to become more religious as an insurance policy as death approaches.

    The C of E has always in my lifetime had its highest percentage of age group church attendance amongst over 80s as a result!
    Not sure what that proves. Dementia has, likewise, in my lifetime always been most prominent in over 80s.
    As is, entirely coincidentally, voting Conservative.
    Yes unless you are Tony Benn if you are not voting Tory by 80 you are very unusual.

    Even now most over 65s are still Conservative even if most younger than that are now for Starmer
    You can stick my Mother on that list.
    Mind you, Tony Benn's a bit milquetoast for her company.
    My mother's favourite politicians were Tony Benn and Margaret Thatcher.
    No wonder I'm so fucked up.
    My grandfather voted Conservative, but once gave me a book by Mao with the words "There's a lot of truth in this!"

    People are complex and their politics not always consistent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Andy_JS said:

    Can we hold the AV referendum again? I think voters got that one wrong.

    Can we reverse The Great Reform Act - I agree with Wellington about the hats.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited January 2023
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
    Nottingham got the mainline railway at the ideal time to trigger a big boom in Victorian industry and slum housing. Similar happened to other towns, some of which only really exist at the scale they do because of the railway. Meanwhile Stamford missed the main line despite being of a similar size and close by, so it remained a handsome mediaeval and Georgian town.

    You can see the same effect with the airports. The inner Thames Valley and Surrey, as well as the area around Crawley, chock full of post war trading estates, business parks and detached 60s-90s housing. Or earlier still the cities that grew up around ports.

    Not sure why York escaped the industry. Perhaps because there was already plenty in the West Yorkshire coalfields.
    York is just strange. Middle class in the main. Yet only football and rugby league. Union never got any kind of foothold.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited January 2023
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
    Nottingham got the mainline railway at the ideal time to trigger a big boom in Victorian industry and slum housing. Similar happened to other towns, some of which only really exist at the scale they do because of the railway. Meanwhile Stamford missed the main line despite being of a similar size and close by, so it remained a handsome mediaeval and Georgian town.

    You can see the same effect with the airports. The inner Thames Valley and Surrey, as well as the area around Crawley, chock full of post war trading estates, business parks and detached 60s-90s housing. Or earlier still the cities that grew up around ports.

    Not sure why York escaped the industry. Perhaps because there was already plenty in the West Yorkshire coalfields.
    York is just strange. Middle class in the main. Yet only football and rugby league. Union never got any kind of foothold.
    I was born and raised in York. It wasn't always so middle class. The largest employers used to be chocolate factories - Rowntree's and Terry's - and the railways. As a kid, our Xmas presents were selection boxes given by the chocolate factories to the workers. It had lots of working-class suburbs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
    Nottingham got the mainline railway at the ideal time to trigger a big boom in Victorian industry and slum housing. Similar happened to other towns, some of which only really exist at the scale they do because of the railway. Meanwhile Stamford missed the main line despite being of a similar size and close by, so it remained a handsome mediaeval and Georgian town.

    You can see the same effect with the airports. The inner Thames Valley and Surrey, as well as the area around Crawley, chock full of post war trading estates, business parks and detached 60s-90s housing. Or earlier still the cities that grew up around ports.

    Not sure why York escaped the industry. Perhaps because there was already plenty in the West Yorkshire coalfields.
    York is just strange. Middle class in the main. Yet only football and rugby league. Union never got any kind of foothold.
    I was born and raised in York. It wasn't always so middle class. The largest employers used to be chocolate factories - Rowntree's and Terry's - and the railways. As a kid, our Xmas presents were selection boxes given by the chocolate factories to the workers. It had lots of working-class suburbs.
    York university, founded only in 1963 but one of the top universities in the country now and all the asssociated academics and students and research staff is one of the key reasons why York became mostly middle class.

    Though it has always had the second most important cathedral in the country after Canterbury of course
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Scottish media (or some of it, at any rate) finally trying to hold Sturgeon to account:

    I asked @NicolaSturgeon if she could substantiate her remarks about some opponents of gender recognition reform being misogynistic, homophobic and racist?

    Ms Sturgeon says she’s not suggesting opponents are ‘by definition badly motivated’ and was talking in ‘general terms’.
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1620146295716581376

    I'm honestly not sure what that is supposed to mean. By talking 'in general terms' does she mean she meant it, but is claiming it didn't mean what it appeared to mean?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    kle4 said:

    Scottish media (or some of it, at any rate) finally trying to hold Sturgeon to account:

    I asked @NicolaSturgeon if she could substantiate her remarks about some opponents of gender recognition reform being misogynistic, homophobic and racist?

    Ms Sturgeon says she’s not suggesting opponents are ‘by definition badly motivated’ and was talking in ‘general terms’.
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1620146295716581376

    I'm honestly not sure what that is supposed to mean. By talking 'in general terms' does she mean she meant it, but is claiming it didn't mean what it appeared to mean?
    “I’m not accusing anyone in particular, but…”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Verhofstadt having a quick troll.
    Though he’s perhaps quite sincere at the same time ?

    I have a dream.

    Ukraine & Britain joining the EU in the next 5 years. Who's in?

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1620072037019713542
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited January 2023
    Japan top of the list for Covid deaths at the moment, despite the fact nearly everyone still wears masks there.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Nigelb said:

    Verhofstadt having a quick troll.
    Though he’s perhaps quite sincere at the same time ?

    I have a dream.

    Ukraine & Britain joining the EU in the next 5 years. Who's in?

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1620072037019713542

    Well of course if Ukraine does join the EU are going to need another cash cow country they can milk for billions in membership fees to compensate. Probably the only reason they would want the UK back.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Average age of UK Christians reaches 50 and over for first time

    Church of England will prioritise ‘the need to connect with Generation Z’ after marked increase in young people with ‘no religion

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/30/average-age-uk-christians-reaches-50-first-time/

    Though I note UK Muslims now have an average age even younger than the irreligious
    I answered as a Muslim on the census because my father was sat next to me when I was filling it in because you know how much of a pious and observant Muslim I am.
    Of course Muslims like you and your father believe Jesus was the Messiah too like we Christians unlike atheists, just unlike Christians you don't believe in the Trinity and your main prophet is Muhammad
    As a non atheist I dont believe jesus was the messiah either. He was hardly even a naughty boy
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Mrs. P and I are thinking about where to move where we can get a lot of house for our money, a rural location, reasonable transport links etc.

    Lincolnshire has come up as a possibility but as devout Remainers, I'm not sure we'd fit in. Better cross it off the list.

    Lincoln is quite a pleasant city, as is Stamford and both Bourne and Louth. Apart from Stamford, hard to describe as good transport links.
    Very interesting chapter in Hoskins’ making of the English landscape about the contrasting histories of Stamford and Nottingham. The latter got the railway, the former didn’t. Which is why it’s still pretty.
    York has lots of railways, and is pretty.
    Nottingham got the mainline railway at the ideal time to trigger a big boom in Victorian industry and slum housing. Similar happened to other towns, some of which only really exist at the scale they do because of the railway. Meanwhile Stamford missed the main line despite being of a similar size and close by, so it remained a handsome mediaeval and Georgian town.

    You can see the same effect with the airports. The inner Thames Valley and Surrey, as well as the area around Crawley, chock full of post war trading estates, business parks and detached 60s-90s housing. Or earlier still the cities that grew up around ports.

    Not sure why York escaped the industry. Perhaps because there was already plenty in the West Yorkshire coalfields.
    York is just strange. Middle class in the main. Yet only football and rugby league. Union never got any kind of foothold.
    I was born and raised in York. It wasn't always so middle class. The largest employers used to be chocolate factories - Rowntree's and Terry's - and the railways. As a kid, our Xmas presents were selection boxes given by the chocolate factories to the workers. It had lots of working-class suburbs.
    My final job was in York as Development Director for the University and it was really great place to live and work. What was strange was that just about all the faces in the streets were white. There were hardly any non white ones.

    These were for be the very early days of PB
This discussion has been closed.