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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    Right laid Aus at 1.05 for £20 now.

    Need some sixes to retrade at 1.1...
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    Lennon said:

    Not really wanting to derail a thread completely - but reading this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572 - what can be done to persuade the ASA that they are totally wrong / is there any recourse to appeal to someone higher up?

    I thought showing helmets in adverts would be a no-no.

    Yours sincerely

    Finbar Saunders
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Right laid Aus at 1.05 for £20 now.

    Need some sixes to retrade at 1.1...

    Goodnight Vienna..
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    Labour battling with english cricket (mens dept) for Inept group of 2014.

    Tim Shipman (Mail)‏@ShippersUnbound3 mins
    Do they even want to win? Exhibit A: Labour. Your party is seen as too left wing, so you begin a new campaign refighting the miners' strike.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    76p it will have to be !
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    EU Commission issuing "guidance" about countries like the UK disfranchising citizens who move around the EU.
    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-77_en.htm

    Does this mean anything practical or is it just somebody muttering to themselves?

    Well it could give these people some hope....

    Expat Scots demand a vote in independence referendum

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/27/uk-scotland-independence-expatriates-idUKBREA0Q1JF20140127
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Right laid Aus at 1.05 for £20 now.

    Need some sixes to retrade at 1.1...

    Goodnight Vienna..
    I backed Aus again at 1.15 and will end up with 76p. Was hoping for more from England but meh :P
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    Carnyx said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The miners, of course, were overwhelmingly white and working class.

    Is this " dig up the past" exercise a panic measure to counteract Ukip ?


    I suspect not. It's a pretty harmless bit of gesture politics. But it does target a demographic that a few UKIPers on here state Labour is not interested in representing. What do the UKIP leadership and activist base think about the miners and Maggie's smashing of the overwhelmingly white, working class Old Labour trades unions?
    Probably that it's an issue from decades ago that nobody is going to vote on any more?
    Is it really? The reactions to her funeral recently might suggest otherwise, as does the panda-level population of Tory MPs in Scotland and much of the North and Wales. (Not a personal sentiment of mine either way; and indeed it would surprise me a little bit if this anti-Mrs T factor is still significantly active.)
    How many votes will it shift ? Just rubbing the tummies of the "would vote for a donkey with a red rosette (and have done for decades) brigade"

    Maintaining votes is probably a big part of the strategy. Remind people of UKIP's "arch-Thatcherite" leadership and activist base. It's a tribute to UKIP, but it does raise a legitimate question about the sincerity of their push for Old Labour votes.

    Don't know the ukip view on miners, but I think the rise in Ukip support from WWC types came as a surprise to them. Only now it has begun is Farage trying to capitalise on it
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Carnyx said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The miners, of course, were overwhelmingly white and working class.

    Is this " dig up the past" exercise a panic measure to counteract Ukip ?


    I suspect not. It's a pretty harmless bit of gesture politics. But it does target a demographic that a few UKIPers on here state Labour is not interested in representing. What do the UKIP leadership and activist base think about the miners and Maggie's smashing of the overwhelmingly white, working class Old Labour trades unions?
    Probably that it's an issue from decades ago that nobody is going to vote on any more?
    Is it really? The reactions to her funeral recently might suggest otherwise, as does the panda-level population of Tory MPs in Scotland and much of the North and Wales. (Not a personal sentiment of mine either way; and indeed it would surprise me a little bit if this anti-Mrs T factor is still significantly active.)
    How many votes will it shift ? Just rubbing the tummies of the "would vote for a donkey with a red rosette (and have done for decades) brigade"

    Maintaining votes is probably a big part of the strategy. Remind people of UKIP's "arch-Thatcherite" leadership and activist base. It's a tribute to UKIP, but it does raise a legitimate question about the sincerity of their push for Old Labour votes.

    Don't know the ukip view on miners, but I think the rise in Ukip support from WWC types came as a surprise to them. Only now it has begun is Farage trying to capitalise on it
    Sale & Wythenshawe will give a good guide on this !

    Anything in the 30s is very very good for UKIP.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,200
    Neil said:

    EU Commission issuing "guidance" about countries like the UK disfranchising citizens who move around the EU.
    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-77_en.htm

    Does this mean anything practical or is it just somebody muttering to themselves?

    It means absolutely nothing, countries decide who votes in their national elections themselves. If Ireland had to grant every Irish person living in the EU an equal vote in general elections its democratic structures would fall apart as Sinn Féin was given the balance of power against the wishes of people who actually live in the Republic.

    What next, the EU Commission complains that the UK and other countries dont allow its citizens to vote for its head of state?
    They'd have a point if they did, but disfranchising mobile people obviously has free movement implications in a way that voting for the head of state doesn't.

    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...
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    For balance:

    Tim Shipman (Mail)‏@ShippersUnbound55 secs
    Do they even want to win? Exhibit C: Tories. Your chief strategist says ignore Ukip and then you talk of nothing but Europe and immigration
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    England require another 105 runs with 4 wickets and 41 balls remaining - tricky ;p
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?
    5-6 frontpages a week in the Mail, Sun and Express ?
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    Charles is right of course, about the coalfields stuff. He is an excellent Tory poster - too many on here are simply too partisan.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...

    The UK takes a very enlightened view of who should be allowed to vote in general elections. I think a majority of immigrants are allowed despite not being UK nationals.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited January 2014
    Had my cataracts removed in one eye yesterday and new lens fitted. Suddenly, everything is so bright. It will take a bit of getting used to.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,294
    On topic, the issues tracker is almost certainly driven by the Romanian/Bulgarian immigration stories over the new year. No-one really knows how many have arrived here yet (it seems fewer than thought, but no-one can be sure) and it's raised the salience of the fact that the government can't really control its own borders.

    People will be sceptical of any official numbers because they remember the previous government estimating <50,000, when we actually got well over a million. Partly, this was because it was boom-time in the economy, demand for labour in the UK was strong, supply of labour in the 2004 accession countries was high, links between the Poland and UK (in particular) were stronger than most eastern bloc countries and the UK & Ireland were the only countries to immediately open up their borders. The last point was a conscious decision of the UK government that actively did increase immigration.

    The biggest thing Cameron could do to "win" on this point would be to get some kind of immigration reform into his EU renegotiation package. The only way I can see to get something substantive on this is to 'trade' it for UK acquiescence/support for a future EU treaty/eurozone treaty and stick it in as an amending clause to the treaties of european union. Perhaps they could keep it for schengen but not non-schengen zones.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,921
    edited January 2014
    For those who think PCSO's, like the police who are jumped up little numpties who are as useful as a condom with holes in both ends, they will be shocked, shocked, I tell you by this

    PCSO Threatens Woman With Arrest Over Dog Poo (VIDEO)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/29/_n_4685700.html?1390990955
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    For balance:

    Tim Shipman (Mail)‏@ShippersUnbound55 secs
    Do they even want to win? Exhibit C: Tories. Your chief strategist says ignore Ukip and then you talk of nothing but Europe and immigration

    What was Exhibit B?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles is right of course, about the coalfields stuff. He is an excellent Tory poster - too many on here are simply too partisan.

    Where should I send the cheque ;-)
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    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?

    I'd say it is pretty media led. The polling always has a large gap between immigration being a big issue facing the country and it being an issue affecting you and your family. From memory - and I could well be wrong - it is the biggest gap there is in these two strands. We also know from the polling that people believe there are far more immigrants/Muslims etc here than there actually are. That says to me - media. Though this is not to downplay the very real and legitimate concerns that people have.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    Mr. K, hope it all went well.

    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.
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    Charles said:

    For balance:

    Tim Shipman (Mail)‏@ShippersUnbound55 secs
    Do they even want to win? Exhibit C: Tories. Your chief strategist says ignore Ukip and then you talk of nothing but Europe and immigration

    What was Exhibit B?
    Tim Shipman (Mail) ‏@ShippersUnbound 23m

    Do they even want to win? Exhibit B: Lib Dems. Your party is seen as a hotbed of sexism, so you snub the woman and elect a 69yo white male.
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    Charles said:

    For balance:

    Tim Shipman (Mail)‏@ShippersUnbound55 secs
    Do they even want to win? Exhibit C: Tories. Your chief strategist says ignore Ukip and then you talk of nothing but Europe and immigration

    What was Exhibit B?
    Lib Dems related so best ignored here, don't want to make OGH grumpy again. Not like they can win the GE anyway...
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.

    When I first got drunk I was surprised at how much better looking everyone was.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,123
    edited January 2014

    Neil said:

    EU Commission issuing "guidance" about countries like the UK disfranchising citizens who move around the EU.
    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-77_en.htm

    Does this mean anything practical or is it just somebody muttering to themselves?

    It means absolutely nothing, countries decide who votes in their national elections themselves. If Ireland had to grant every Irish person living in the EU an equal vote in general elections its democratic structures would fall apart as Sinn Féin was given the balance of power against the wishes of people who actually live in the Republic.

    What next, the EU Commission complains that the UK and other countries dont allow its citizens to vote for its head of state?
    They'd have a point if they did, but disfranchising mobile people obviously has free movement implications in a way that voting for the head of state doesn't.

    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...
    That is indeed so, and it is more or less a residency test - which is also what UK law requires for such referenda and which the Edinburgh Agreement followed. This is also the only sensible and practical answer in the absence of a legal Scottish nationality.

    It's also very late for people to start complaining. This definition has been well known and much discussed at least in Scotland around the time of the Edinburgh agreement a year back. The new case is possibly based on the recent White Paper, that because they may get the option of becoming Scottish citizens they ought to be allowed to vote - but in view of the recent Westminster backtrack on the scare stories about no dual nationality, it's not obvious to me that they are losing anything at all. All they seem to be complaining about is that they might get an extra bonus choice on what they have now, which is UK nationality. Or have I missed something?
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    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 23m

    .@LiamFoxMP tells me he has won defamation case against Harvey Boulter. 'I'm glad to have been vindicated.' Way open for Cabinet comeback
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Neil said:


    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...

    The UK takes a very enlightened view of who should be allowed to vote in general elections. I think a majority of immigrants are allowed despite not being UK nationals.
    http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/who_can_register_to_vote.aspx

    Commonwealth citizens and those from the Republic of Ireland - so very few EU citizens
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,294
    To add to my last point, Cameron would also need to side-step any other immigration 'spikes' from either mass-acceptance of refugees, further additional accession countries (Croatia?) and the net immigration rate to drop even further before it dropped in salience and he got some credit for it.

    It's not impossible. Thatcher did manage to neutralise immigration as a major issue in the 1980s - it's just Cameron has to contend with the EU and himself. He's doing it begrudgingly, rather than through convinction, as she did, and people have picked up on that.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,786
    MikeK said:

    Had my cataracts removed in one eye yesterday and new lens fitted. Suddenly, everything is so bright. It will take a bit of getting used to.

    I'm glad it went well. Are you having your other eye done?

    An ex of mine's father had both his eyes done, and it changed his life. He hadn't really realised how bad his eyesight had become. It's a real quality-of-life operation.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Mr. K, hope it all went well.

    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.

    Yes good luck @MikeK

    Similar to @MorrisDancer, when I started wearing contact lenses at age 25, I started getting panicky as everything seemed so close up!
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    Neil said:


    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.

    When I first got drunk I was surprised at how much better looking everyone was.
    When I first got drunk I was surprised by the following

    1) How much better music sounds, particularly my taste in music.

    2) How awesome my dancing is

    3) How bright some clothing and shoes are under nightclub lights.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,425
    Re Miners

    shouldn't Lefties be erecting a statue to Thatcher on the back of it ? There's no way they could have the sanctimonious middle classes droning on about AGW and still pay huge subsisdies for coal. MT has saved their bacon.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,200

    On topic, the issues tracker is almost certainly driven by the Romanian/Bulgarian immigration stories over the new year. No-one really knows how many have arrived here yet (it seems fewer than thought, but no-one can be sure) and it's raised the salience of the fact that the government can't really control its own borders.

    People will be sceptical of any official numbers because they remember the previous government estimating

    DOA. Eastern Europeans leaders would be queuing up to veto an amendment to reduce freedom of movement. And the Eurozone can work around Britain and just pass their own treaty in any case, in the event that they actually manage to agree to one among themselves.

    That said, the voters won't necessarily know this, and Labour will have hard time explaining it to them without looking weedy and defeatist. Labour really need to get Farage into the debates to make these points for them.
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    Attention all you Bog trotting cricket fans, there's been some developments at the ICC

    Jonathan Agnew ‏@Aggerscricket 1m

    Hearing that bilateral Test agreements already well advanced, and there will be opportunity for Ireland, and others, to play Test cricket
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?

    I'd say it is pretty media led. The polling always has a large gap between immigration being a big issue facing the country and it being an issue affecting you and your family. From memory - and I could well be wrong - it is the biggest gap there is in these two strands. We also know from the polling that people believe there are far more immigrants/Muslims etc here than there actually are. That says to me - media. Though this is not to downplay the very real and legitimate concerns that people have.
    I think the reason for the over estimation of immigrant/Muslim numbers is to do with the uneven spread.. For instance the Dense concentration in East London must surely make people from near that area think that 5% of the whole country is far too low
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    Worth considering that, not that long ago, bad eyes were just something you had to put up with.

    Mr. Eagles, one suspects you've been in a state of constant inebriation for the last few decades.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,786

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 23m

    .@LiamFoxMP tells me he has won defamation case against Harvey Boulter. 'I'm glad to have been vindicated.' Way open for Cabinet comeback

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rt-hon-dr-liam-fox-113500825.html

    For the second time today: hmmmm...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    edited January 2014
    From Benson (BBC chap) on the livefeed of testing:
    "Among the teams with a lot on their plate on this second day of the test are world champions Red Bull. Sebastian Vettel got out for only three exploratory laps on Tuesday and when he returned to the pits the back of the car was on fire. Design chief Adrian Newey was on Tuesday bemoaning the loss of several ways in which they gained performance over the last few years - including the banning of exhaust-blow rear aerodynamics, at which they were particularly adept, and the requirement now to put the batteries for the hybrid systems on the front of the engine. Red Bull found a performance gain in putting them in the gearbox bellhousing from 2011-13"

    Good. If Red Bull are whining (and occasionally on fire) it suggests we may see new victors this year.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TGOHF said:

    Suggests the Mail, Sun and Express are still influential.

    Suggest the mail,sun and express reporting the reality of the people of this country.

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Neil said:


    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...

    The UK takes a very enlightened view of who should be allowed to vote in general elections. I think a majority of immigrants are allowed despite not being UK nationals.
    Only if the majority of immigrants are from Commonwealth countries or Eire, I think. EU nationals can vote in local elections but not in parliamentary ones.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,754

    Neil said:


    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.

    When I first got drunk I was surprised at how much better looking everyone was.
    When I first got drunk I was surprised by the following

    1) How much better music sounds, particularly my taste in music.

    2) How awesome my dancing is

    3) How bright some clothing and shoes are under nightclub lights.
    Early on in my drinking career - I bet on an England World Cup win / Coulthard to win the British Grand Prix double... (the link being that they were the same day) - Moral of the story - only bet when sober.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Throughout the Tatcher years there were a dozen or so Tory MPs in Scotland, it was in 1997 that the number dropped to near zero, under John Major. Once more the Thatcher myth exceeds reality!

    I cannot see that refighting the Miners strike 30 years on would be useful for Labour. Even at the time it was seen as a politically motivated strike to attempt to bring down a government. Political strikes will always get a political response. Associating the Labour party with the Scargillite tendency will not win many votes !
    MikeK said:

    Had my cataracts removed in one yesterday and new lens fitted. Sudden,ly, everything is so bright. It will take a bit of getting used to.

    Carnyx said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The miners, of course, were overwhelmingly white and working class.

    Is this " dig up the past" exercise a panic measure to counteract Ukip ?

    I suspect not. It's a pretty harmless bit of gesture politics. But it does target a demographic that a few UKIPers on here state Labour is not interested in representing. What do the UKIP leadership and activist base think about the miners and Maggie's smashing of the overwhelmingly white, working class Old Labour trades unions?
    Probably that it's an issue from decades ago that nobody is going to vote on any more?
    Is it really? The reactions to her funeral recently might suggest otherwise, as does the panda-level population of Tory MPs in Scotland and much of the North and Wales. (Not a personal sentiment of mine either way; and indeed it would surprise me a little bit if this anti-Mrs T factor is still significantly active.)
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,917
    MikeK said:

    Had my cataracts removed in one eye yesterday and new lens fitted. Suddenly, everything is so bright. It will take a bit of getting used to.

    Absolutely delighted for you Mike. My mother had it not so long ago and it transformed her sight and life also.

    Of course, the last thing therefore that I am going to do is make any reference to your seeing the light...GDP growth...George getting it right....

    :)
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Neil said:


    Not the same, but when I first got glasses (I was about 11) I was staggered by how different everything looked.

    When I first got drunk I was surprised at how much better looking everyone was.
    When I first got drunk I was surprised by the following

    1) How much better music sounds, particularly my taste in music.

    2) How awesome my dancing is

    3) How bright some clothing and shoes are under nightclub lights.
    4) and how women became irresistibly attracted to me
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    To add to my last point, Cameron would also need to side-step any other immigration 'spikes' from either mass-acceptance of refugees, further additional accession countries (Croatia?) and the net immigration rate to drop even further before it dropped in salience and he got some credit for it.

    It's not impossible. Thatcher did manage to neutralise immigration as a major issue in the 1980s - it's just Cameron has to contend with the EU and himself. He's doing it begrudgingly, rather than through convinction, as she did, and people have picked up on that.

    Maggie and Major paved the way for free movement of goods and people inside the single market. But it was a very different market. I suspect that had member states known what they know now they would not have done what they did. But they did because they didn't. The problem is that to make a change you need unanimous agreement - and that just is not going to happen. Here UKIP is absolutely bang on the money. The only chance of being able to control UK borders fully is to leave the EU.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306


    Commonwealth citizens and those from the Republic of Ireland - so very few EU citizens

    France only has to ask to join ;-)

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    isam said:

    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?

    I'd say it is pretty media led. The polling always has a large gap between immigration being a big issue facing the country and it being an issue affecting you and your family. From memory - and I could well be wrong - it is the biggest gap there is in these two strands. We also know from the polling that people believe there are far more immigrants/Muslims etc here than there actually are. That says to me - media. Though this is not to downplay the very real and legitimate concerns that people have.
    I think the reason for the over estimation of immigrant/Muslim numbers is to do with the uneven spread.. For instance the Dense concentration in East London must surely make people from near that area think that 5% of the whole country is far too low

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 23m

    .@LiamFoxMP tells me he has won defamation case against Harvey Boulter. 'I'm glad to have been vindicated.' Way open for Cabinet comeback

    Where though lol ?

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MikeK said:

    Had my cataracts removed in one eye yesterday and new lens fitted. Suddenly, everything is so bright. It will take a bit of getting used to.

    Glad that you are now seeing the light, me old Weathercock.

    Are the muddy purples now showing as clear blue?

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,786

    Worth considering that, not that long ago, bad eyes were just something you had to put up with.

    Mr. Eagles, one suspects you've been in a state of constant inebriation for the last few decades.

    An anecdote: thirteen or so years ago my eyesight was fairly bad, and was getting worse. I then went walking for a year, and didn't bother wearing my glasses. When I got back I went to the opticians and they said I no longer needed glasses: my sight had recovered.

    Since then, they've been getting slowly worse - it's the curse of staring at a computer screen all day.

    I've suggested to Mrs J that I go for another year-long walk to 'cure' my eyesight. Her reply was rather unprintable ...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    Luciana Berger having a mare on the DP with Andrew Neil "I've been through all the figures, that figure is not true......"
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    Mr. Jessop, sounds like a nice idea. Sadly, I can't entirely forgo the old computer... maybe I should look at reducing how much time I spend on it, though.
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    Worth considering that, not that long ago, bad eyes were just something you had to put up with.

    Mr. Eagles, one suspects you've been in a state of constant inebriation for the last few decades.

    The last time I had a drink, Gordon Brown was Prime Minister.

    Now, thinking about it, are the two related?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I thought Eu citizens were eligible for the Euro elections. Not that the Romanians will vote kipper anyway.
    RobD said:


    Commonwealth citizens and those from the Republic of Ireland - so very few EU citizens

    France only has to ask to join ;-)

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    If Dernbach hadn't been so expensive, and been able to bowl like Bresnan, England would have won this.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    Luciana Berger having a mare on the DP with Andrew Neil "I've been through all the figures, that figure is not true......"

    Carlotta

    Who has "been through all the figures"?

    Luciana or Andrew?

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    Patrick Kidd ‏@patrick_kidd 1m

    Despite losing this T20, by passing 180, England have actually done better than they did in six of their Test innings
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:


    The obvious way to do this would be to forget about nationality and just use the same tests used to decide who you have to pay taxes to, but the member states insist on looking at nationality...

    The UK takes a very enlightened view of who should be allowed to vote in general elections. I think a majority of immigrants are allowed despite not being UK nationals.
    Only if the majority of immigrants are from Commonwealth countries or Eire, I think. EU nationals can vote in local elections but not in parliamentary ones.
    Yeah, I was guessing that Commonwealth and Irish immigrants outnumbered all others but it was just a guess.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited January 2014
    Britain's politicians 'are too middle class to see the problems caused by immigration'

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/britains-politicians-are-too-middle-class-to-see-the-problems-caused-by-immigration-9090728.html

    Just like some on pb,haven't a clue.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746


    Disagree, when the Tories adopted their current leadership rules they swallowed a bomb, and gave the detonator to a monkey. (Or rather, a group consisting of their 45 least level-headed monkeys.) A no confidence vote could be called at the slightest provocation, and once it had been it's not obvious that Cameron would survive it.

    Tory MP's who were reluctant to embrace boundary changes because they would lose their seat are hardly going to take heavy-caliber weaponry to their own feet. Not unless the election is lost. And that ain't the case, not with recent polls and Labour's risible attempts to come up with an alternative economic strategy.

    I still expect David Cameron to be Prime Minister in June 2015.
    The May local elections should provide a list of seats where the MP looks vulnerable. Conservative MPs on that list may well be looking for a wild card.

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    glwglw Posts: 9,600

    Re Miners

    shouldn't Lefties be erecting a statue to Thatcher on the back of it ? There's no way they could have the sanctimonious middle classes droning on about AGW and still pay huge subsisdies for coal. MT has saved their bacon.

    I would presume that the Labour Party are now in favour of coal being mined but not burnt. Ed's plan to give everyone who can work a job probably involves employing people to rebury the coal, thus creating a vast number of jobs and eliminating unemployment.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,921
    edited January 2014
    Did the Daily Politics just play Dizzee Rascal's Bonkers on a clip of Gordon Brown?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    AveryLP said:

    Luciana Berger having a mare on the DP with Andrew Neil "I've been through all the figures, that figure is not true......"

    Carlotta

    Who has "been through all the figures"?

    Luciana or Andrew?

    Andrew......
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The proposed fracking sites are often on the old coalfields. One form of jobs for another, and one form of pollution for another. Why are Labour so keen on mining and so against fracking as a form of extraction?
    glw said:

    Re Miners

    shouldn't Lefties be erecting a statue to Thatcher on the back of it ? There's no way they could have the sanctimonious middle classes droning on about AGW and still pay huge subsisdies for coal. MT has saved their bacon.

    I would presume that the Labour Party are now in favour of coal being mined but not burnt. Ed's plan to give everyone who can work a job probably involves employing people to rebury the coal, thus creating a vast number of jobs and eliminating unemployment.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Miliband win at PMQ's.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Ed losing his cool again.

    Hands waving, body shaking and eyes boggling.

    What happened to the new soft and quiet approach?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Whe Cameron has to resort to his shouty mode he's lost.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    I thought I'd tune in to watch PMQ's - a rare occurrence.

    A PLAGUE ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES

    What a juvenile unedifying spectacle it is - braying MP's not even bothering to listen to either side. There was little. if anything, to encourage people to vote in the future. Why can't MP's see how stupid they look to the public. It really is a cliquey club that's televised. Grrrr.
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    isam said:

    As a monthly poll, this surely reflects the Romanian and Bulgarian invasion stories in late December/early January.

    Okay - but what about the trend over the last year, as shown by the second chart in the thread header?

    I'd say it is pretty media led. The polling always has a large gap between immigration being a big issue facing the country and it being an issue affecting you and your family. From memory - and I could well be wrong - it is the biggest gap there is in these two strands. We also know from the polling that people believe there are far more immigrants/Muslims etc here than there actually are. That says to me - media. Though this is not to downplay the very real and legitimate concerns that people have.
    I think the reason for the over estimation of immigrant/Muslim numbers is to do with the uneven spread.. For instance the Dense concentration in East London must surely make people from near that area think that 5% of the whole country is far too low

    That would be true for those areas. But if the polling is done properly it should still reflect national opinion, not just opinion in certain localities. Another tendency is to notice people who look different. You remember them and because of that you may over-estimate their numbers. But I suspect a lot of it is that people read stories in the papers about immigrants and immigration and they worry about it, even though - as they tell pollsters - it does not really affect them or their families.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411
    Carnyx said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The miners, of course, were overwhelmingly white and working class.

    Is this " dig up the past" exercise a panic measure to counteract Ukip ?

    I suspect not. It's a pretty harmless bit of gesture politics. But it does target a demographic that a few UKIPers on here state Labour is not interested in representing. What do the UKIP leadership and activist base think about the miners and Maggie's smashing of the overwhelmingly white, working class Old Labour trades unions?
    Probably that it's an issue from decades ago that nobody is going to vote on any more?
    Is it really? The reactions to her funeral recently might suggest otherwise, as does the panda-level population of Tory MPs in Scotland and much of the North and Wales. (Not a personal sentiment of mine either way; and indeed it would surprise me a little bit if this anti-Mrs T factor is still significantly active.)
    The Tories have plenty of support in Wales, and most of the North. They have 50 MPs in total, and the North East, and Yorkshire and Humberside produced above-average swings in 2010.

    Specifically, they have no support in the South Wales Valleys, Sheffield, Newcastle, Liverpool, and Manchester, but they're either competitive, or have safe seats, elsewhere.

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Whe Cameron has to resort to his shouty mode he's lost.

    He lost when he took time looking up a Quote from balls and then 4 Questions on not answering the Question on the 45% tax going down to 40,plus ed looked more confident.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Hugh said:

    Miliband win at PMQ's.

    Indeed. The Tories need some sort of answer to the 50p stuff sharpish.
    Why, Hugh?

    The people have already answered.

    Labour lead falls to 2% and 3%.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    Don't often watch PMQs. Saw most of the main exchange, which vindicated my dislike of it.

    It was Alien vs Predator - whoever wins, we lose.

    Bercow was pretty hopeless silencing the Labour benches.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    TGOHF said:

    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.

    Well it gives the impression of an even bigger gap between the Tories 45p policy and Labours 50p policy, by implying that the Tories want to cut it further.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Whe Cameron has to resort to his shouty mode he's lost.

    He lost when he took time looking up a Quote from balls and then 4 Questions on not answering the Question on the 45% tax going down to 40,plus ed looked more confident.

    Ed did OK in his first two questions.

    When he didn't get the answer he wanted he started to throw his toys out of the cot.

    Just like a petulant toddler reacting to a resolute father.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    F1: Button's on slicks. It's meant to be a wet day. Not sure if they'll water the track again or not.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    AveryLP said:

    Hugh said:

    Miliband win at PMQ's.

    Indeed. The Tories need some sort of answer to the 50p stuff sharpish.
    Why, Hugh?

    The people have already answered.

    Labour lead falls to 2% and 3%.

    I note that you ignore Populus. Is that because it doesn't fit your argument?

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Guru Graf brought up at PMQs.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Hugh said:

    Miliband win at PMQ's.

    Indeed. The Tories need some sort of answer to the 50p stuff sharpish.
    Why, Hugh?

    The people have already answered.

    Labour lead falls to 2% and 3%.

    I note that you ignore Populus. Is that because it doesn't fit your argument?

    No.

    It is because I am ignorant of Populus's most recent results.

    Do they make a big difference?

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TGOHF said:

    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.

    Every time Cameron seems to be getting on top,he shoots himself in the foot.

    He's cr@p at politics.

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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    TGOHF said:

    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.

    1) to keep the (unpopular) cut from 50 to 45 in the spotlight, reminding some centrist voters that they perceive them as a party who prioritise the very rich
    2) to try and expose divisions within the Tory party - won't take long to get Liam Fox or someone similar into the studios arguing that Osborne should cut to 40. That in turn creates greater expectation that it might happen (it won't), disappointing some supporters when it doesn't, which may push them UKIP-ward

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    AveryLP said:

    Whe Cameron has to resort to his shouty mode he's lost.

    He lost when he took time looking up a Quote from balls and then 4 Questions on not answering the Question on the 45% tax going down to 40,plus ed looked more confident.

    Ed did OK in his first two questions.

    When he didn't get the answer he wanted he started to throw his toys out of the cot.

    Just like a petulant toddler reacting to a resolute father.

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the closest Mr Avery LP will ever get to conceding Ed Miliband won pmqs hands down!!
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    stodgestodge Posts: 13,185
    Afternoon all :)

    A rare day off for me in soggy East Ham which is pretty much at the immigration frontline. The Poles and Balts have moved on to be replaced by the Romanians and Bulgarians while the Tamil majority in this area continues to be swollen by new family arrivals from India and Sri Lanka.

    The Tube is murderously busy even at 7am as are the buses. People work long hours and often in more than one job I suspect. The houses are overcrowded but it just about hangs together.

    English is the lingua franca of business and public services - I've just been to my local GP. The staff at the surgery (open longer hours) cope with a bewildering array of new patients and new problems but cope. The schools are overflowing but seem to cope.

    There are problems - I suspect there is a huge alcohol and possibly drug issue which simmers below the surface but when I see the children of all backgrounds playing together and talking in English, I can't help but feel optimistic as I realise I'm looking at a new British generation (note not English) emerging.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    AveryLP said:

    Whe Cameron has to resort to his shouty mode he's lost.

    He lost when he took time looking up a Quote from balls and then 4 Questions on not answering the Question on the 45% tax going down to 40,plus ed looked more confident.

    Ed did OK in his first two questions.

    When he didn't get the answer he wanted he started to throw his toys out of the cot.

    Just like a petulant toddler reacting to a resolute father.

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the closest Mr Avery LP will ever get to conceding Ed Miliband won pmqs hands down!!
    Whether Ed won or lost, I can assure you, SO, it would not have been "hands down".

    They wave faster than the blades of a "tiny windmill".

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,160
    F1: Marussia still not there yet. Apparently a small technical issue is their new problem. I sympathise, but if they can't get moving today they'll've lost 2/12 test days.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A rare day off for me in soggy East Ham which is pretty much at the immigration frontline. The Poles and Balts have moved on to be replaced by the Romanians and Bulgarians while the Tamil majority in this area continues to be swollen by new family arrivals from India and Sri Lanka.

    The Tube is murderously busy even at 7am as are the buses. People work long hours and often in more than one job I suspect. The houses are overcrowded but it just about hangs together.

    English is the lingua franca of business and public services - I've just been to my local GP. The staff at the surgery (open longer hours) cope with a bewildering array of new patients and new problems but cope. The schools are overflowing but seem to cope.

    There are problems - I suspect there is a huge alcohol and possibly drug issue which simmers below the surface but when I see the children of all backgrounds playing together and talking in English, I can't help but feel optimistic as I realise I'm looking at a new British generation (note not English) emerging.

    English is the first choice language, praise be!

    Where's the link to The Guardian article this is quoted from? ;)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Here comes the miners retribution squad.
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    TGOHF said:

    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.

    Every time Cameron seems to be getting on top,he shoots himself in the foot.

    He's cr@p at politics.

    Dave let Ed win today.

    If Dave had crushed Ed again today, combined with Labour's slide in the polls, people in the Labour party may have decided to remove Ed as leader before the election.

    Something which Dave doesn't want.

    From Dave and The Tories perspective so it's better to lose one PMQs than to lose Ed as Leader of the Opposition.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2014
    Relieved to hear Miliband has won PMQs - the polls are tilting against so perhaps some much needed morale for Labour benches. It's not that I support either of 'em, want to see Dave and Ed fairly balanced against each other from here till GE2015 y'see !

    I take it Ed Balls has stopped making a plonker of himself too ? (At PMQs I mean, not generally...)
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    EpicMegaLolz.

    Dave has been asked about the Bishop of Bath & Wells, and he said tried to get the image from Blackadder out of his head.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Relieved to hear Miliband has won PMQs - the polls are tilting against so perhaps some much needed morale for Labour benches.

    I'm afraid not everyone agrees:

    So much for Miliband's calm, reasonable approach. This sounded like business as usual. Cameron's Labour-bashing was crude and unappealing, but Miliband's attempt to skewer him with the "rule out a tax cut" challenge did not really work either, because Cameron gave what amounted to (for a question about future tax rates) a reasonably informative answer. This one felt like a loss for both sides.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/jan/29/cameron-and-miliband-at-pmqs-politics-live-blog
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    OMG - Dave compared one of the two Eds to George Clooney.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411

    EpicMegaLolz.

    Dave has been asked about the Bishop of Bath & Wells, and he said tried to get the image from Blackadder out of his head.

    Is that the baby-eating bishop, who was caught in flagrante delicto with Lord Percy?

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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    EpicMegaLolz.

    Dave has been asked about the Bishop of Bath & Wells, and he said tried to get the image from Blackadder out of his head.

    Gove will be highly distressed that his glorious leader's been influenced by such blatant leftist propaganda.
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    Worth considering that, not that long ago, bad eyes were just something you had to put up with.

    Mr. Eagles, one suspects you've been in a state of constant inebriation for the last few decades.

    An anecdote: thirteen or so years ago my eyesight was fairly bad, and was getting worse. I then went walking for a year, and didn't bother wearing my glasses. When I got back I went to the opticians and they said I no longer needed glasses: my sight had recovered.

    Since then, they've been getting slowly worse - it's the curse of staring at a computer screen all day.

    I've suggested to Mrs J that I go for another year-long walk to 'cure' my eyesight. Her reply was rather unprintable ...
    JJ

    I suffer from Macular Degeneration caused by acute myopia. Driven, I am sure, from a lifetime of looking at screens. It is the constant refocussing between near and far that strains the eye and pushes the shortsighted to become even more shortsighted. I finally have a great opthalmologist. On her advice I am wearing contact lenses selected to give a sharp picture when looking at distance. For screens etc I wear +1 granny specs on top of the contact lenses. The effect has been brilliant. My eyes are much less tired as no longer constantly trying to refocus and my prescription seems to have settled down. I'd strongly recommend anyone with short sight and eye strain to copy this approach.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    TGOHF said:

    Why do Labour want to bang on about the possibility of a cut to the 45p in the budget ?

    It aint happening.

    Every time Cameron seems to be getting on top,he shoots himself in the foot.

    He's cr@p at politics.

    Dave let Ed win today.

    If Dave had crushed Ed again today, combined with Labour's slide in the polls, people in the Labour party may have decided to remove Ed as leader before the election.

    Something which Dave doesn't want.

    From Dave and The Tories perspective so it's better to lose one PMQs than to lose Ed as Leader of the Opposition.
    It's bigger than that. Dave is sacrificing the next election in order to usher in a landslide in 2025. He's playing the long game ! Every failure is a success (But every success is still a success obviously).
This discussion has been closed.