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The betting money goes on Biden to be re-elected – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    It is what I'm doing a thread about on Sunday.

    The Duke of Sussex should be the front man for No in the next Scottish Indyref.
    I have a quiet weekend, so will try to listen to my copy in advance.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    kinabalu said:

    A Meghan Markle - AOC dream ticket for the Democratic Party would be brilliant fun, at least on PB.

    Polarization does have its appeal. I sometimes muse about a UK presidential race, Nigel Farage v Owen Jones. And everyone HAS to vote. No abstentions, no 3rd way options like Sir Ed Davey. You have to choose. Who runs the country, Nige or OJ? This thought experiment forces you to really think about which side you're on, gun to head, and therefore has immense value. As a thought experiment.
    Think I'd be turning the gun on myself in that instance.
    :smile: - also not allowed. That's abstention by stealth.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    kle4 said:

    If the GOP had their wits about them they'd run Marjorie Taylor Green/George Santos dream ticket against Biden.

    No love for Matt Gaetz?
    Good news is that a Trump-Gaetz OR Santos-Gaetz ticket is unconstitutional.

    Talk about the foresight of Our Founding Fathers!
    Why is it unconstitutional?

    (Assume you mean DeSantis ?)
    Constitution requires (Article II) that in voting for President and Vice President, presidential electors in each state must vote for at least one candidate who is NOT from their own state.

    So in theory, a FLORIDA DiSantis-Gaetz elector (or other way around) would be precluded from voting from either DiSantis or Gaetz; they could take their pick which one to vote (and not vote) for.

    Which in a close national presidential race in Electoral College, could lead to strange results. Simply too big a risk for parties & candidates (and



    visa-versa) who are serious prospects to actually get elected.
    Interesting - thanks - that I did not know!

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    edited January 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    It is what I'm doing a thread about on Sunday.

    The Duke of Sussex should be the front man for No in the next Scottish Indyref.
    He should be the front man for No on virtually any question.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Harry Styles has released a book? He's got the X-Factor, so it'll only be heading in One Direction up the charts...

    Oh, not that Harry. It's the boring one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,451
    kinabalu said:

    ///long-term.economic.plan

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1613113120028856320

    Look at this and tell me you want to back this guy at 3.95 current BF price to be reelected in 2 years time? When you can get 8% risk free for putting your money on deposit?

    I want to back this guy at 3.95 current BF price to be reelected in 2 years time.
    Still prefer that 'Dems' at the lower price - but the good news is we can both win!
    I think that sheds too much value.

    It must be 70%+ it's Biden (only potential issue is health or a calamity) so why drop down from c.4s to c.2s ??

    You can buy a bit of insurance on top on Harris or Whitmer if you like. Otherwise, you're paying premium to buy a very broad field that will never come into play.
    I wouldn't demur too much. I'm not in his head so we're mainly in the realms of 'hunch' about Biden not being on the ballot.
    We're not but all the signs are he's going to run and he wants to prove his virility in the meantime.
    True. But would it look that different if he was actually very unsure about it?
    Yes, I think so. He wouldn't be trying so hard and would be talking about being the "bridge to the next generation" a lot more.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,643
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    That is hilarious. He must have known how that'd sound, surely?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kinabalu said:

    A Meghan Markle - AOC dream ticket for the Democratic Party would be brilliant fun, at least on PB.

    Polarization does have its appeal. I sometimes muse about a UK presidential race, Nigel Farage v Owen Jones. And everyone HAS to vote. No abstentions, no 3rd way options like Sir Ed Davey. You have to choose. Who runs the country, Nige or OJ? This thought experiment forces you to really think about which side you're on, gun to head, and therefore has immense value. As a thought experiment.
    If there really is a gun to head, then you have presented the third option.

    Boom!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    Pass the mind bleach, please
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,398
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nGy9uomagO4&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
  • Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    A Meghan Markle - AOC dream ticket for the Democratic Party would be brilliant fun, at least on PB.

    Polarization does have its appeal. I sometimes muse about a UK presidential race, Nigel Farage v Owen Jones. And everyone HAS to vote. No abstentions, no 3rd way options like Sir Ed Davey. You have to choose. Who runs the country, Nige or OJ? This thought experiment forces you to really think about which side you're on, gun to head, and therefore has immense value. As a thought experiment.
    If there really is a gun to head, then you have presented the third option.

    Boom!
    For some of us, 2019 was as close to gun to head as we want to get, thank you very much.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nGy9uomagO4&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
    You can't beat a song about masturbation. See also Teenage Kicks.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,451

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    Jesus fucking christ.

    I laughed so loud on the train watching that I had commuters looking at me worriedly and moving to different seats.
  • kle4 said:

    If the GOP had their wits about them they'd run Marjorie Taylor Green/George Santos dream ticket against Biden.

    No love for Matt Gaetz?
    Good news is that a Trump-Gaetz OR Santos-Gaetz ticket is unconstitutional.

    Talk about the foresight of Our Founding Fathers!
    Why is it unconstitutional?

    (Assume you mean DeSantis ?)
    Constitution requires (Article II) that in voting for President and Vice President, presidential electors in each state must vote for at least one candidate who is NOT from their own state.

    So in theory, a FLORIDA DiSantis-Gaetz elector (or other way around) would be precluded from voting from either DiSantis or Gaetz; they could take their pick which one to vote (and not vote) for.

    Which in a close national presidential race in Electoral College, could lead to strange results. Simply too big a risk for parties & candidates (and visa-versa) who are serious prospects to actually get elected.
    In those circumstances, wouldn't Florida effectively abstain on VP (or symbolically choose a third candidate for VP)?

    So the Democratic VP candidate still wouldn't have a majority of electoral college votes, and it would go to the Senate to choose between the two leading candidates.

    There is some risk in that but, if it's a close election in 2024, it has to be said the GOP would be hot favourites to control the Senate as the map is bad for Democrats.

    So there is some risk of a split Presidency/VP as you say, but not that high.

    I accept it's a gamble though. And not merely a weird situation but also a potential practical problem in that although a VP can be sidelined in the Executive (and De Santis is fairly young and healthy) the VP does get the casting vote in a 50/50 Senate so someone like Harris was and remains pretty important in legislating (if the Senate was 55-45 that wouldn't matter much).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited January 2023

    Nigelb said:

    FT confirm the tanks story.

    UK and Poland confirm plans to send modern heavy tanks to Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/092b8894-4441-4747-bfd4-5b21a0c68709

    (Though calling our tanks modern is a slight stretch.)

    Aren't they going to need separate everything including ammo?

    When Ukraine wins, they might end up on plinths in small towns. Not likely to make the same contribution as the Leopards.
    Yes. Logistically, providing a handful of tanks that require unique ammunition is a nightmare, but if Germany and the US are more comfortable not being the first countries to provide tanks then worth it for that reason alone.
    It's possible that if only a few tanks are provided (such as 10 Challenger 2s), then they could be put somewhere where the action is not currently too hot (e.g. the Belarussian border), freeing up other tanks to go to the fronts. That would also give the crews more time to train and get used to them, and also mean logistics is easier if they are more static.

    That's not the case if the tanks' capability is a significant step-change over the ex-Soviet tanks the Ukrainians are using.
    I think I’ve worked out the plan

    The dozen Challenger 2 will be supplied with most of the ammunition stock for the entire fleet.

    Which means either :

    - they will have to activate the plan to get FN to make some more - they have the tooling I believe.

    - Or get cracking with Challenger 3 - move to smooth bore like everyone else.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    That is seriously Freudian.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited January 2023
    Like Brexit the country is prepared to harm itself but it is the will of the people.

    Labour wants to strip private schools of their charitable status and associated tax exemptions.

    Most Britons (55%) say private schools should not be allowed to be charities and should lose tax exemptions.




    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613221700367224862/photo/1
  • Rishi Sunak has faced criticism for using a RAF jet to fly 200 miles from London to Leeds.

    How appropriate do you believe it is for senior ministers, or the PM, to use private jets to travel within the country?

    Appropriate: 16%
    Inappropriate: 77%


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613219313149743104
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
  • TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
  • Rishi Sunak has faced criticism for using a RAF jet to fly 200 miles from London to Leeds.

    How appropriate do you believe it is for senior ministers, or the PM, to use private jets to travel within the country?

    Appropriate: 16%
    Inappropriate: 77%


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613219313149743104

    RAF jet

    ...

    private jets
  • SandraMc said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    That is seriously Freudian.
    This is what happens when your father publicly humiliates your mother by bragging about his adultery.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Shoigu changed the military leadership in Ukraine, appointing Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the General Staff, as head of the nation’s combined forces. UK’s Ministry of Defense says it’s a “clear acknowledgement that the campaign is falling short of Russia’s strategic goals.” https://twitter.com/defencehq/status/1613250172481314846
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    Nigelb said:

    FT confirm the tanks story.

    UK and Poland confirm plans to send modern heavy tanks to Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/092b8894-4441-4747-bfd4-5b21a0c68709

    (Though calling our tanks modern is a slight stretch.)

    Aren't they going to need separate everything including ammo?

    When Ukraine wins, they might end up on plinths in small towns. Not likely to make the same contribution as the Leopards.
    Yes. Logistically, providing a handful of tanks that require unique ammunition is a nightmare, but if Germany and the US are more comfortable not being the first countries to provide tanks then worth it for that reason alone.
    It's possible that if only a few tanks are provided (such as 10 Challenger 2s), then they could be put somewhere where the action is not currently too hot (e.g. the Belarussian border), freeing up other tanks to go to the fronts. That would also give the crews more time to train and get used to them, and also mean logistics is easier if they are more static.

    That's not the case if the tanks' capability is a significant step-change over the ex-Soviet tanks the Ukrainians are using.
    I think I’ve worked out the plan

    The dozen Challenger 2 will be supplied with most of the ammunition stock for the entire fleet.

    Which means either :

    - they will have to activate the plan to get FN to make some more - they have the tooling I believe.

    - Or get cracking with Challenger 3 - move to smooth bore like everyone else.
    From what I've read (IANAE, etc), it's an interesting one. We have a load of Challenger 2s, and lots of ammunition for it. The C2s are due to be replaced by C3s, which uses different ammunition. We therefore need to get rid of all that ammunition eventually. But the CR2 is the only thing that uses it.

    So the answer should be simple: just give the Ukrainians loads of C2s and the ammo. Except we don't have C2s yet, and the C3s are modifications and updates of the C2s. And the C3s are not expected for five years.

    The whole C3 situation is a terrible mess.
  • If the GOP had their wits about them they'd run Marjorie Taylor Green/George Santos dream ticket against Biden.

    Santos should take the lead given his vast experience.
    He certainly has the stronger CV.

    In fact it's probably the strongest in the world.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,786

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
    Then you might enjoy... https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/105yby9/rie_ota_the_japanese_suit_actress_for_the_kaiju/

    "Rie Ota, the Japanese suit actress for the kaiju BARAGON (in a 2001 Godzilla movie), lets out the most adorable roars whilst filming"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950

    Like Brexit the country is prepared to harm itself but it is the will of the people.

    Labour wants to strip private schools of their charitable status and associated tax exemptions.

    Most Britons (55%) say private schools should not be allowed to be charities and should lose tax exemptions.




    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613221700367224862/photo/1

    27% still want private schools too keep charitable status, most of them Tories and little different to the current Conservative rating.

    So even if Labour form the next government and end tax exempt status for private schools Conservatives should still back charitable status for private schools
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    O/T Just watched the first episode of Ken Burns' The US and the Holocaust documentary series.

    I highly recommend it. The early part covers themes like immigration, assimilation, globalisation, the nation, etc., which are very relevant today.

    Available on iPlayer.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Like Brexit the country is prepared to harm itself but it is the will of the people.

    Labour wants to strip private schools of their charitable status and associated tax exemptions.

    Most Britons (55%) say private schools should not be allowed to be charities and should lose tax exemptions.




    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613221700367224862/photo/1

    27% still want private schools too keep charitable status, most of them Tories and little different to the current Conservative rating.

    So even if Labour form the next government and end tax exempt status for private schools Conservatives should still back charitable status for private schools
    48% still wanted the UK to remain in the UK; fat lot of good it did us.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    If she self-identified as a Japanese man, it's weird that it'd be the nationality bit that everyone would focus on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    HYUFD said:

    Like Brexit the country is prepared to harm itself but it is the will of the people.

    Labour wants to strip private schools of their charitable status and associated tax exemptions.

    Most Britons (55%) say private schools should not be allowed to be charities and should lose tax exemptions.




    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613221700367224862/photo/1

    27% still want private schools too keep charitable status, most of them Tories and little different to the current Conservative rating.

    So even if Labour form the next government and end tax exempt status for private schools Conservatives should still back charitable status for private schools
    A majority of 2019 Conservative voters said no to Charitable status.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950
    edited January 2023

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Nigelb said:

    FT confirm the tanks story.

    UK and Poland confirm plans to send modern heavy tanks to Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/092b8894-4441-4747-bfd4-5b21a0c68709

    (Though calling our tanks modern is a slight stretch.)

    Aren't they going to need separate everything including ammo?

    When Ukraine wins, they might end up on plinths in small towns. Not likely to make the same contribution as the Leopards.
    Yes. Logistically, providing a handful of tanks that require unique ammunition is a nightmare, but if Germany and the US are more comfortable not being the first countries to provide tanks then worth it for that reason alone.
    It's possible that if only a few tanks are provided (such as 10 Challenger 2s), then they could be put somewhere where the action is not currently too hot (e.g. the Belarussian border), freeing up other tanks to go to the fronts. That would also give the crews more time to train and get used to them, and also mean logistics is easier if they are more static.

    That's not the case if the tanks' capability is a significant step-change over the ex-Soviet tanks the Ukrainians are using.
    I think I’ve worked out the plan

    The dozen Challenger 2 will be supplied with most of the ammunition stock for the entire fleet.

    Which means either :

    - they will have to activate the plan to get FN to make some more - they have the tooling I believe.

    - Or get cracking with Challenger 3 - move to smooth bore like everyone else.
    From what I've read (IANAE, etc), it's an interesting one. We have a load of Challenger 2s, and lots of ammunition for it. The C2s are due to be replaced by C3s, which uses different ammunition. We therefore need to get rid of all that ammunition eventually. But the CR2 is the only thing that uses it.

    So the answer should be simple: just give the Ukrainians loads of C2s and the ammo. Except we don't have C2s yet, and the C3s are modifications and updates of the C2s. And the C3s are not expected for five years.

    The whole C3 situation is a terrible mess.
    There isn’t that much ammunition - enough for the fleet at a rather low use rate. The war in Ukraine has shown (for the zillionth time) that ammunition expediter is always vastly higher than planned.

    The CR3 is a CR2 with a new turret - mainly. Giving all the CR2 would mean ending the CR3 program. There is no capability to build more.

    Given the FRES fuckups it’s time for something new. Give JCB a contract to build Merkeva X under license?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Like Brexit the country is prepared to harm itself but it is the will of the people.

    Labour wants to strip private schools of their charitable status and associated tax exemptions.

    Most Britons (55%) say private schools should not be allowed to be charities and should lose tax exemptions.




    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613221700367224862/photo/1

    27% still want private schools too keep charitable status, most of them Tories and little different to the current Conservative rating.

    So even if Labour form the next government and end tax exempt status for private schools Conservatives should still back charitable status for private schools
    A majority of 2019 Conservative voters said no to Charitable status.
    48% is not a majority and about a third of 2019 Tory voters declaring a voting intention now back Labour or RefUK anyway
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Rishi Sunak has faced criticism for using a RAF jet to fly 200 miles from London to Leeds.

    How appropriate do you believe it is for senior ministers, or the PM, to use private jets to travel within the country?

    Appropriate: 16%
    Inappropriate: 77%


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613219313149743104

    RAF jet

    ...

    private jets
    Unless I have missed the online RAF jet public booking app, those jets seem pretty private to me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
    How's your tapeworm coming along?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950
    edited January 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    DJ41 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is there anything wrong with having a private GP? If so, why?

    You would have to ask Rishi that, since he is the one who seems ashamed of it.

    He had three routes with integrity. One was to use the NHS while he was a high profile politician. One was to come up with a solid explanation, as OGH has done above. The third was to not enter politics. Not choosing any of those does make him look like a worse person.

    And if he had to go down this path, he should have said "personal matter" not "private matter".
    I disagree - it's a trap and there is no answer that won't draw bile from those who want to be bilious.

    (a) Yes, I go private - Oh, NHS not good enough for you? How the hell can you be in charge of something you don't even trust to use?

    (b) Lie - get found out (as has been shown) - Why did you lie?
    What's wrong with Stuartinromford's first option, not going private whilst a prominent politician? It's not as if the PM's going to struggle to get an NHS appointment if he needed one.
    Because its performative nonsense, thats why. Should a politician only sit in rubbish seats at football (come on Keir, get out of that box)? Of only drive rubbish cars? And as for schooling - no more private schools for the kids. That would upset quite a few labour folk.
    I don't have a problem with rich people having nicer stuff. I'm richer than most people, I live in a nice big house, drive a decent sized car, had a nice long haul holiday over Christmas etc. I'm very grateful and I pay my taxes and I don't feel bad about it. But for me things like education and health are in a different class, because these are rights and everyone should have the best quality service that the country can afford. I don't think it's right that rich people can jump the queue to get operations before other people, and I don't think that rich people's kids should get better schools than other children. And I don't trust politicians who tell us they are going to deliver the best service possible and fund it appropriately, but refuse to use it themselves. To me the two just seem contradictory and I can't trust a politician like that. Of course other people feel differently about these things, as is their right.
    Pretty much my view too. With money comes all sorts of pleasures and privileges - which is fine - but what money shouldn't be able to buy is educational advantage or better essential healthcare

    For me the schools point is the bigger one since the more that parental bank balance features there, the greater is the violation of the ideal of equal opportunities. So I feel more strongly about private schools than I do about private health.
    The thing is Education is a public good. The better-educated the population is the better it is for society as a whole. So you'd think it would be good if people were using their own resources to increase the total amount of Education in the country. Why is it better in your eyes for someone to buy a new sports car every other year instead of pay Eton school fees?

    The reason, I think, is that you've bought into the ideology of meritocracy. This means that you see private education as someone cheating in the great meritocratic struggle. The problem here isn't private education. The problem is that meritocracy is a con used to justify inequality.

    It's a futile struggle to try and create a level playing field for meritocracy. Will never happen. Instead I think we should concentrate on people's right to dignity even if they don't become doctors or lawyers, and a fair share of the proceeds generated for society by Eton's education of the wealthy.
    You have me wrong here, LP. I don't fetishize meritocracy. That it ends in "ocracy" is a tell. It's an oppressive notion by itself. Eg, if outcomes are grossly unequal but everyone has a meritocratic fair shot at hitting the jackpot, this isn't the End of History imo. It makes no sense to view equal opportunity in isolation from outcomes. Both are important. Plus they impact each other in either direction.

    The goal for me is everyone realizes their potential, wealth of background minimized as a factor, with the material outcomes achieved to be far more closely bunched than they are today. It's an unachievable goal of course so the direction of travel is what counts in practice.

    Eton v sports car? Serial fast car purchase doesn't hardcode inequality into society, propagate it down through the generations. This is the essential difference to me.
    Yes it does.

    If you ask the average working class man whether he could have a new sports car or send his children to learn Latin and Maths to 18 at Eton he would take the new sports car every time!
    But it doesn't cascade inequality down the generations, a Porsche 911, does it? Ditto most areas of discretionary private spend. Eg I bet I'd disapprove of some of your jumpers - find them morally wrong even - but I'll be relaxed about it because there's no violation of equal opportunities or propagating of societal inequality in your sartorial choices. Unless I'm missing something.
    It does if inherited.

    You are assuming that because everyone can't go to Eton nobody can. Except forgetting that even if private education was banned, grammar schools were banned, academies and free schools and faith schools were banned and everyone had to send their children to the local comprehensive there would still be inequality.

    For parents living in wealthier areas with more expensive houses would have better local schools than those living in poorer areas. So you would have to ban private sale of housing too and ensure everyone lived in social housing.

    Yet even then would still be inequality because those of high iq would tend to marry others of high iq and those of low iq those of low iq. So the children of the former would still be much more likely to become doctors, lawyers, ceos etc. So you would have to ban marriage amongst those of the same but not average iq and force the high iq to marry the low iq to ensure genetic shift towards average iq
    People don't usually inherit jumpers.

    And to say that inequality is multi-sourced and inevitable isn't a strong argument in favour of something that actively increases it.

    Thing is, H, this is an unbridgeable-by-debate difference in values and worldview. I'm egalitarian, meaning I have reducing inequality as a very high priority. Heart and head both tell me this. Head because I think it's illogical how resources are so unequally distributed. Heart because it upsets me that they are.

    You, otoh, are a traditional tory - with all that this entails.
    No you are not egalitarian, if you were you would be Communist or hardcore Socialist and support equality of outcome. If that was the case then fair enough, I might have some respect for your position even if I believed it misguided and likely to lead to more poverty overall.

    Instead you are just a liberal meritocrat. Fine with capitalism as long as there is perfect equality of opportunity, except as I have shown you and was pointed out earlier that is impossible to achieve and just reduces choice and excellence in education in reality in my view too
    Astonishing you are allowed to get away with:

    "If you ask the average working class man whether he could have a new sports car or send his children to learn Latin and Maths to 18 at Eton he would take the new sports car every time!" Have you met anyone working class?
    Plenty and I stand by my comment in terms of most of them
    And presumably they would all slap er indoors about a bit if she dared to advance her own opinion.
    No but if you really want to believe the average working class male in this country would turn down a new sports car in favour of sending their child to learn Latin at Eton that is up to you
    Would the average middle class male?
    Good point. There may be evidence out there to the contrary but I assume that regardless of class what you do or don't do for your sprogs is limited mainly by your financial circumstances. I suppose there might be some more unwanted kids in working class families who come lower down the pegging order than a new sports car, but it is not a very nice view hyufd has of the plebs (gets pay packet on Friday and goes straight down the bookies and the pub)
    I take the other viewpoint, that my kids come higher up the pecking order than sending them to a boarding school where they won't live with the family.

    Forced choice for my kids I would choose: Sports car (because why not), then no car at all, then Eton at the bottom of the list. Not because I don't rate my kids, but because I do, and I want them at home with me not shipped away to a boarding school unnecessarily.
    My comment was really about @hyufd looking down on the working class.
    I stopped reading when he started relying on the pseudoscientific garbage that is "IQ".

    If anyone is in need of a celebrity to enlighten them, Nassim Taleb, author of "The Black Swan", may do the job:

    https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

    As for boarding school and sports cars, most people who didn't go to boarding school have little clue what it's like. Men who went there and who then send their sons there are filth. It's not like a sports car which you can imagine driving with some reasonable degree of realism even if you've never driven one.
    Well if you believe the child of 2 Oxbridge science or law graduates will have the same IQ as the child of 2 parents who failed their GCSEs, fine
    There are plenty of idiot children of brilliant parents, and plenty of brilliant children of idiots.

    You are simply more likely to be smart if your parents are smart, and vice versa.

    Rare exceptions rather than plenty I suspect.

    Two parents with IQs of 80, will be more likely than not to have a child with an IQ above 80.

    And two with IQs of 120, will be more likely than not to have one with an IQ below 120.

    Yet still just 4% of doctors in the UK come from working class backgrounds and 13% of solicitors

    https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2020/02/diversity-medical-workforce-progress

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2017/01/posh-solicitors-pocket-almost-7000-more-than-working-class-colleagues/
    So what?

    For a start you haven't told me what proportion of people come from "working class backgrounds". Is it 5%? 20% 50%?

    Secondly, your doctor number is going to be skewed by the number of foreign doctors we import.
    About 50% on the social scale used.

    There may be some foreign middle class doctors imported but not 96% of doctors and nor does that explain the 87% of solicitors with middle class backgrounds
    Really?

    Because according the link you posted:



    "We refer to NS-SEC 6 and 7 occupations as working class."

    Now, are 50% of the population in those groups?

    Nope:



    It's 26% of the population.

    So, while the gap at the solicitor level is significant - 14% of solicitors come from working class backgrounds against 26% of the population - it is far from overwhelming. You are around 40% less likely to become a solicitor from a working class background as you are from an average one.
    It is still significant given even 26% makes up the majority of the working class even adding the skilled working class to the unskilled working class.

    So despite the fact most solicitors attended state schools they are still significantly more middle class than average.

    In fact 62% of solicitors come from managerial and professional family backgrounds which even on your own figures comprise just 29% of the population ie the upper middle classes not even lower middle class
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    kle4 said:

    Fun fact, assuming a 2024 election, Keir Starmer would likely become PM after 9 years in Parliament, so depending on when in the year it took place he would be second or third on the list of shortest time in Parliament before becoming PM, after Rishi's 7 years, and Cameron's 9, at least in the 20th century. Politicians are in such a rush now, but at least he had a pretty full career first.

    Might go in cycles, since May and Brown both served a long time.

    I hate to be pedantic* but:

    Both of those were PM in the *21st* century.

    I would guess the shortest time as a member of the Commons before becoming PM would be Pitt the Younger, who was elected MP for Appleby on the 8th January 1781 and became PM on 19th December 1783, so just under three years later.

    *I realise this may be the only statement I have ever made that sounds less convincing than Cummings' claim he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight.
  • Weather-Or-Not-You-Want-It Report

    Here in the Emerald City of the Great Pacific Northwest, it is a splendid Spring day - in the 2nd week of January. Sunny and temp = 62 degrees Fahrenheit on my humble porch right now.

    HOWEVER weather radar shows a STRONG band of heavy weather just southeast of the WA Coast, and heading our way in something of a hurry.

    This is essentially the same atmospheric river that has been deluging California for the past week or so.

    Leading edge (oriented northwest to southeast now at Astoria, Oregon at the mouth of the Columbia River, and Portland. Predicted to reach Seattle just before dusk, that is right at rush hour.

    More storms right behind following the same track. People in areas subject to flooding are getting prepared.

    Sadly, some people affected by flooding in Seattle LAST week were NOT prepared. Because the flood that drove them from their home on the banks of the Duwamish River in south Seattle, was due to convergence of following factors:

    > semi-annual peak high tides (aka king tides) affecting the tidal lower Duwamish.

    > high water following into the river from mountains, foothills and lowlands due to recent rains.

    > in-coming storm from just the right (or rather wrong) direction, which lowered barometric pressure sufficiently to raise the river level - already high - by an addition two feet, thus topping the levy and flooding several dozen homes and businesses.

    Would that the last factor was the Big Whammy. Because while Seattle Public Utilities and other agencies anticipated and prepared for other three, the last caught them off guard.

    Another factor worth mentioning, is that most of the folks directly affected are from a variety of immigrant communities, most notably Cambodian and Latino, and are at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum. AND this part of the city, which is just up the Duwamish from the Port of Seattle, has been a standing insult to social equity and simple justice. Pretty much ever since the indigenous Native residents were run off . . . the Duwamish Tribe.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    Nigelb said:

    FT confirm the tanks story.

    UK and Poland confirm plans to send modern heavy tanks to Ukraine
    https://www.ft.com/content/092b8894-4441-4747-bfd4-5b21a0c68709

    (Though calling our tanks modern is a slight stretch.)

    Aren't they going to need separate everything including ammo?

    When Ukraine wins, they might end up on plinths in small towns. Not likely to make the same contribution as the Leopards.
    Yes. Logistically, providing a handful of tanks that require unique ammunition is a nightmare, but if Germany and the US are more comfortable not being the first countries to provide tanks then worth it for that reason alone.
    It's possible that if only a few tanks are provided (such as 10 Challenger 2s), then they could be put somewhere where the action is not currently too hot (e.g. the Belarussian border), freeing up other tanks to go to the fronts. That would also give the crews more time to train and get used to them, and also mean logistics is easier if they are more static.

    That's not the case if the tanks' capability is a significant step-change over the ex-Soviet tanks the Ukrainians are using.
    I think I’ve worked out the plan

    The dozen Challenger 2 will be supplied with most of the ammunition stock for the entire fleet.

    Which means either :

    - they will have to activate the plan to get FN to make some more - they have the tooling I believe.

    - Or get cracking with Challenger 3 - move to smooth bore like everyone else.
    From what I've read (IANAE, etc), it's an interesting one. We have a load of Challenger 2s, and lots of ammunition for it. The C2s are due to be replaced by C3s, which uses different ammunition. We therefore need to get rid of all that ammunition eventually. But the CR2 is the only thing that uses it.

    So the answer should be simple: just give the Ukrainians loads of C2s and the ammo. Except we don't have C2s yet, and the C3s are modifications and updates of the C2s. And the C3s are not expected for five years.

    The whole C3 situation is a terrible mess.
    There isn’t that much ammunition - enough for the fleet at a rather low use rate. The war in Ukraine has shown (for the zillionth time) that ammunition expediter is always vastly higher than planned.

    The CR3 is a CR2 with a new turret - mainly. Giving all the CR2 would mean ending the CR3 program. There is no capability to build more.

    Given the FRES fuckups it’s time for something new. Give JCB a contract to build Merkeva X under license?
    That's not a bad idea. I wonder if you can still see the JCB test track from a nearby footpath?
  • TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
  • TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
    How's your tapeworm coming along?
    Must be about 12 foot long.
  • kle4 said:

    If the GOP had their wits about them they'd run Marjorie Taylor Green/George Santos dream ticket against Biden.

    No love for Matt Gaetz?
    Good news is that a Trump-Gaetz OR Santos-Gaetz ticket is unconstitutional.

    Talk about the foresight of Our Founding Fathers!
    Why is it unconstitutional?

    (Assume you mean DeSantis ?)
    Constitution requires (Article II) that in voting for President and Vice President, presidential electors in each state must vote for at least one candidate who is NOT from their own state.

    So in theory, a FLORIDA DiSantis-Gaetz elector (or other way around) would be precluded from voting from either DiSantis or Gaetz; they could take their pick which one to vote (and not vote) for.

    Which in a close national presidential race in Electoral College, could lead to strange results. Simply too big a risk for parties & candidates (and visa-versa) who are serious prospects to actually get elected.
    In those circumstances, wouldn't Florida effectively abstain on VP (or symbolically choose a third candidate for VP)?

    So the Democratic VP candidate still wouldn't have a majority of electoral college votes, and it would go to the Senate to choose between the two leading candidates.

    There is some risk in that but, if it's a close election in 2024, it has to be said the GOP would be hot favourites to control the Senate as the map is bad for Democrats.

    So there is some risk of a split Presidency/VP as you say, but not that high.

    I accept it's a gamble though. And not merely a weird situation but also a potential practical problem in that although a VP can be sidelined in the Executive (and De Santis is fairly young and healthy) the VP does get the casting vote in a 50/50 Senate so someone like Harris was and remains pretty important in legislating (if the Senate was 55-45 that wouldn't matter much).
    ANY totally unnecessary risk in this situation would be considered both extreme foolishness AND goo reason to question the judgement of the presidential nominee.

    Of course plenty of OTHER reasons for that, historically. Still, just sayin.

    PLUS the historical trend, of candidates and their parties, to expand their electoral appeal & support beyond a single state or region.

    The geographical imperative for this is perhaps way less in the very early 3rd millennium. But far from absent.
  • HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    Doesn’t count, just like Germany.
  • TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    Doesn’t count, just like Germany.
    Seven years counts. Oh, and Okinawa was occupied until 1972.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    What I find comic is the worship by some idiots of feudal Japan. Where demented levels of tax on the peasants paid for all the calligraphy, tea ceremonies and checking the swords were sharp on passing strangers….
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,451
    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    What I find comic is the worship by some idiots of feudal Japan. Where demented levels of tax on the peasants paid for all the calligraphy, tea ceremonies and checking the swords were sharp on passing strangers….
    But it's like the Borgias versus the cuckoo clock.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    Only if you are one.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    You’ll have to get frostbite first.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
    How's your tapeworm coming along?
    Must be about 12 foot long.
    Never mind, size isn't important (so I'm told)

    https://healthfacts.blog/2018/01/19/what-is-the-longest-tapeworm-ever-removed-from-a-person/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I’m sure PB will have a whip round to STOP you doing so, at least on here.
  • Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    Will wire $5 provided you agree to NOT talk about your penis. Or Harry's for that matter!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • Rishi Sunak has faced criticism for using a RAF jet to fly 200 miles from London to Leeds.

    How appropriate do you believe it is for senior ministers, or the PM, to use private jets to travel within the country?

    Appropriate: 16%
    Inappropriate: 77%


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1613219313149743104

    RAF jet

    ...

    private jets
    Unless I have missed the online RAF jet public booking app, those jets seem pretty private to me.
    You can hire private jets, and conversely you can't hire HMS Prince of Wales and that doesn't make it a private yacht.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Good to see they've found a job for JRM to do.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
    This is probably exhibit A on why Europe should put swingeing import duties on US cultural hangups. It also shows the parochialism of this kind of thing. It reinforces difference.

    I’ve been a regular visitor to Japan for years (well, until Covid) and it’s fair to say they happily appropriate every bit of European or American cultural iconography going.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,451

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I’m sure PB will have a whip round to STOP you doing so, at least on here.
    Sure, happy to just take the £20m.

    I reckon we have loads of lurkers.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    I am suggesting a Norway style deal with the EU would be a very sensible way forward

    Johnson has no hope of revival

    Have you seen ITV report on his parties at no 10 ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    I'm Japanese given how much sushi I've eaten in my life and don't even get me started on my love of Godzilla, manga, and anime.
    How's your tapeworm coming along?
    Must be about 12 foot long.
    I would have thought that Ivermectin would do the trick...
  • TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    What I find comic is the worship by some idiots of feudal Japan. Where demented levels of tax on the peasants paid for all the calligraphy, tea ceremonies and checking the swords were sharp on passing strangers….
    Some people really get into English royalty and "nobility". Including high-tea ceremonies and knights in shining armor. Also hearty Norman flogging, harrying (!), raping and robbing of slow-moving Saxons.

    Significant difference?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I'm willing to bet that Chat GPT would never have thought of devoting a chapter to a frost bitten penis
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    you can't hire HMS Prince of Wales

    Because it is back in dry dock...

    It has spent more days being repaired than it has at sea.

    But HMS Queen Elizabeth has hosted lots of corporate guests
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian c, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    Occupied by the USA (and a much smaller contribution by the UK) from 1945 to 1952.
    What I find comic is the worship by some idiots of feudal Japan. Where demented levels of tax on the peasants paid for all the calligraphy, tea ceremonies and checking the swords were sharp on passing strangers….
    Some people really get into English royalty and "nobility". Including high-tea ceremonies and knights in shining armor. Also hearty Norman flogging, harrying (!), raping and robbing of slow-moving Saxons.

    Significant difference?
    None, and both are just quirks, not cultural appropriation.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
    This is probably exhibit A on why Europe should put swingeing import duties on US cultural hangups. It also shows the parochialism of this kind of thing. It reinforces difference.

    I’ve been a regular visitor to Japan for years (well, until Covid) and it’s fair to say they happily appropriate every bit of European or American cultural iconography going.
    "US cultural hangups" is a rather broooooooad term. To put it mildly!

    And to what degree, are many US cultural hangups, based on a solid foundation of European cultural hangups which we inherited?

    John 8.7.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Sean_F said:

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I'm willing to bet that Chat GPT would never have thought of devoting a chapter to a frost bitten penis
    It’s all about the promptcraft.

    Actually ChatGPT is a sort of ghost writer, isn’t it? Does something very similar to what they do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    I am suggesting a Norway style deal with the EU would be a very sensible way forward

    Johnson has no hope of revival

    Have you seen ITV report on his parties at no 10 ?
    https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-10/exclusive-boris-johnson-joked-about-most-unsocially-distanced-party-in-the-uk

    Bang to rights.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I’m sure PB will have a whip round to STOP you doing so, at least on here.
    Sure, happy to just take the £20m.

    I reckon we have loads of lurkers.
    Not enough, though…
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat

    Or more likely Nigel Fucking Farage fails to get elected for the ninth time
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
    This is probably exhibit A on why Europe should put swingeing import duties on US cultural hangups. It also shows the parochialism of this kind of thing. It reinforces difference.

    I’ve been a regular visitor to Japan for years (well, until Covid) and it’s fair to say they happily appropriate every bit of European or American cultural iconography going.
    "US cultural hangups" is a rather broooooooad term. To put it mildly!

    And to what degree, are many US cultural hangups, based on a solid foundation of European cultural hangups which we inherited?

    John 8.7.
    Well that is an interesting topic. Some are I think very new and uniquely American. Like gun rights, or designing life around the automobile. Others, like tipping and writing cheques, are feudal imports from Europe that almost disappeared in their source locations but linger on at the destination.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    If Sunak did that, then I might vote Tory for the LoL's.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
    This is probably exhibit A on why Europe should put swingeing import duties on US cultural hangups. It also shows the parochialism of this kind of thing. It reinforces difference.

    I’ve been a regular visitor to Japan for years (well, until Covid) and it’s fair to say they happily appropriate every bit of European or American cultural iconography going.
    They drive on the left, just like in the UK!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    You way overestimate the ERG and Farage but then you always have
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    If Sunak did that, then I might vote Tory for the LoL's.
    Sunak's only hope would be mass defections of Labour Remainers to the Tories given Starmer has ruled out EEA.

    However such is the hatred of most Labour Remainers for the Tories now that is very unlikely
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/11/gwen-stefani-japanese-comments-allure-interview

    Gwen Stefani faces backlash over ‘I’m Japanese’ comment
    Singer and TV host, who is of Irish and Italian descent, made comment in interview promoting her beauty brand

    The 53-year-old described the influence Japanese culture had on her childhood, when her father, who is Italian American, worked for Yamaha and traveled between California and Japan.


    If Stefani identifies as Japanese, who’s to argue with her?

    Also, my dad worked for Yamaha, though he only got to go to HQ a couple of times. We have some Japanese dolls and a painting of a mountain. That wasn’t enough to make me feel Japanese.

    Never understand this American stuff in relation to Japan, including cultural
    appropriation. It’s one of the richest “western” countries in the world and a former imperial power. Nobody has ever colonised or subjected it. Culturally appropriating Japan is no more problematic than culturally appropriating Britain or Germany. If I said “I’m French” because my dad like baguettes nobody would bat an eyelid. I doubt the
    Japanese do either.
    While you make some worthy points, you appear unaware of a key factor in "American stuff in relation to Japan" is the existence of a sizable, significant, politically savvy Japanese American community in the United States.

    Numbering in 2020 over 1.5 million (at least) AND with a history of SERIOUS discrimination based on their racial, ethnic, national origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans
    This is probably exhibit A on why Europe should put swingeing import duties on US cultural hangups. It also shows the parochialism of this kind of thing. It reinforces difference.

    I’ve been a regular visitor to Japan for years (well, until Covid) and it’s fair to say they happily appropriate every bit of European or American cultural iconography going.
    "US cultural hangups" is a rather broooooooad term. To put it mildly!

    And to what degree, are many US cultural hangups, based on a solid foundation of European cultural hangups which we inherited?

    John 8.7.
    Well that is an interesting topic. Some are I think very new and uniquely American. Like gun rights, or designing life around the automobile. Others, like tipping and writing cheques, are feudal imports from Europe that almost disappeared in their source locations but linger on at the destination.
    Gun rights come from our 1689 Bill of Rights, albeit restricted to Protestants:

    "The Bill of Rights 1689 allowed Protestant citizens of England to "have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law" and restricted the ability of the English Crown to have a standing army or to interfere with Protestants' right to bear arms "when Papists were both Armed and Imployed contrary to Law" and established that Parliament, not the Crown, could regulate the right to bear arms.[4][5]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms

    The phrase "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" comes from the same source.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    I've just watched that Sunak PPB. It really is shockingly awful, and I think he's done for - he makes Starmer look almost like a man of the people. It's all so fake.

    I was particularly impressed by how furious Sunak is that we are, after 13 years of Tory government, using taxpayers' money to put up 'illegal immigrants' in hotels. He seems genuinely shocked by the decisions his own party has made.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    I've just watched that Sunak PPB. It really is shockingly awful, and I think he's done for - he makes Starmer look almost like a man of the people. It's all so fake.

    I was particularly impressed by how furious Sunak is that we are, after 13 years of Tory government, using taxpayers' money to put up 'illegal immigrants' in hotels. He seems genuinely shocked by the decisions his own party has made.
    The CoE who funded those hotels should be tarred and feathered for authorising it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    Back yo self
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    How can you call yourself a Tory when you voted Remain like some Woke Socialist???
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited January 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    I've just watched that Sunak PPB. It really is shockingly awful, and I think he's done for - he makes Starmer look almost like a man of the people. It's all so fake.

    I was particularly impressed by how furious Sunak is that we are, after 13 years of Tory government, using taxpayers' money to put up 'illegal immigrants' in hotels. He seems genuinely shocked by the decisions his own party has made.
    The gaslighting over the NHS in that PPB is so extreme that it shreds the credibility of everything else in it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Just wondering whether I can make £20m talking about my penis.

    I'm willing to bet that Chat GPT would never have thought of devoting a chapter to a frost bitten penis
    It’s all about the promptcraft.

    Actually ChatGPT is a sort of ghost writer, isn’t it? Does something very similar to what they do.
    Yeah, I was thinking that. If you'd given an AI like Chat GPT the tapes of Harry's conversations with his ghostwriter, what would it have come up with?

    There was a pber who showed it wasn't very good at logical constructions, so it's possible it would have made some real howlers with the chronology, but it would be interesting to see.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,950

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    How can you call yourself a Tory when you voted Remain like some Woke Socialist???
    David Cameron, John Major and Theresa May and William Hague all voted Remain too don't forget, all Tories.

    George Galloway backed Leave as did
    Mick Lynch, both Socialists
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    How can you call yourself a Tory when you voted Remain like some Woke Socialist???
    David Cameron, John Major and Theresa May and William Hague all voted Remain too don't forget, all Tories.

    George Galloway backed Leave as did
    Mick Lynch, both Socialists
    True Socialists voted leave, to escape the capitalist hegemony of the EU and facilitate the implementation of a radical socialist agenda free from the undemocratic shackles of Brussels.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can we have a Fred on Harry's new book ? I don't feel I'm hearing enough about it on the airwaves

    Spare us please.
    Harry doesn't know the meaning of too much information:

    https://twitter.com/domwakeford/status/1613099763020488704
    Jesus fucking christ.

    I laughed so loud on the train watching that I had commuters looking at me worriedly and moving to different seats.
    Why was Elizabeth Arden? Max Factor.

    (I'm already wearing my coat.)

    O/T Just watched the first episode of Ken Burns' The US and the Holocaust documentary series.

    I highly recommend it. The early part covers themes like immigration, assimilation, globalisation, the nation, etc., which are very relevant today.

    Available on iPlayer.

    Not to mention how easy it is for apparently intelligent people to fall for a pseudoscience and the harm that results. Also very relevant today.

    It is highly recommended. A must watch. As are all his documentaries.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    Two turns of phrase:

    With the current state of the NHS, I'm not comforted, by the political will to achieve the unthinkable, which I semi parsed as a will to 'Do the unthinkable to the NHS'.

    And 'The People's Priorities' as a phrase is just horribly redolent of the ad old Brexit-Faragist-Borisite witch hunting. It makes me wince and I can't imagine a single soft remainer ex-Tories on here are not getting the same slight sphincter flutter at the painfulness of that one. It's not a phrase to bring them back that's for sure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    How can you call yourself a Tory when you voted Remain like some Woke Socialist???
    David Cameron, John Major and Theresa May and William Hague all voted Remain too don't forget, all Tories.

    George Galloway backed Leave as did
    Mick Lynch, both Socialists
    True Socialists voted leave, to escape the capitalist hegemony of the EU and facilitate the implementation of a radical socialist agenda free from the undemocratic shackles of Brussels.
    This thread is getting very Edward VII. As we are all Remainers or Leavers, we are apparently all Socialists.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    I've just watched that Sunak PPB. It really is shockingly awful, and I think he's done for - he makes Starmer look almost like a man of the people. It's all so fake.

    I was particularly impressed by how furious Sunak is that we are, after 13 years of Tory government, using taxpayers' money to put up 'illegal immigrants' in hotels. He seems genuinely shocked by the decisions his own party has made.
    The gaslighting over the NHS in that PPB is so extreme that it shreds the credibility of everything else in it.
    Yes - his comments on the NHS are incredulous and implausible. Makes Boris Boosterism look almost tame by comparison, and will convince virtually nobody as what he says flies in the face of people's 'lived experience', to coin a phrase.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Worst PM piece to camera I have seen. Hard to get through it. He somehow manages to combine May’s robotic delivery, with Johnson’s smarm, and Truss’s idiocy - all wrapped in patronising superiority.

    @IanDunt is right. This is gonna get really old, really quickly. ~AA


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1613282652190085121
    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1613249586503782402

    I've just watched that Sunak PPB. It really is shockingly awful, and I think he's done for - he makes Starmer look almost like a man of the people. It's all so fake.

    I was particularly impressed by how furious Sunak is that we are, after 13 years of Tory government, using taxpayers' money to put up 'illegal immigrants' in hotels. He seems genuinely shocked by the decisions his own party has made.
    The gaslighting over the NHS in that PPB is so extreme that it shreds the credibility of everything else in it.
    Yes - his comments on the NHS are incredulous and implausible. Makes Boris Boosterism look almost tame by comparison, and will convince virtually nobody as what he says flies in the face of people's 'lived experience', to coin a phrase.
    Autocorrect fail?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    I note that in addition to the hopes of an agreement on NIP, Sunak is having a get together with Macron in early March as relationship with the EU and France improve and of course Charles is going on his first state visit to France

    One thing that would upset the apple cart is if Sunak and Hunt move towards a more Norway style relationship with the EU and join the single market to address growth in the economy

    Sidelining the ERG and right of the conservative party is the way forward

    And restoring free movement sees working class Leavers still voting Tory shift en masse to RefUK and increase the likelihood of Boris replacing him as Tory leader again, so he won't
    Johnson is over

    Have you listened to ITV exposure of his comments tonight's

    He has no shame and he is embarrassing
    Well if you are proposing Sunak restore free movement and rejoining the single market in full which not even Theresa May dared try and get through the Tory Party, then you are offering him a quick opportunity of revival
    That's the problem for Sunak.

    He's behind in the polls, and there are various things he could do to bolster his appeal to the centre - soften on Brexit, fire BoJo into the heart of the Sun, that sort of thing.

    But he can't do those things without reviving the Faragist right even more.

    Two proverbs spring to mind, on the inadvisability of a) fighting a war on two fronts and b) riding tigers.
    Indeed. If Sunak proposed rejoining the EEA plus free movement I would expect figures at the next election something like Labour 40-45% RefUK 20% Conservative 15%.

    Starmer landslide and Farage ends up leader of the Opposition and Sunak might even lose his own seat
    Your right wing sympathies on full show there
    No, just reality. The Tories would be heading back to the 9% they got in the 2019 European elections (and remember I voted for May's Tories even then not Farage and his Brexit Party)
    How can you call yourself a Tory when you voted Remain like some Woke Socialist???
    David Cameron, John Major and Theresa May and William Hague all voted Remain too don't forget, all Tories.
    All pinko Communists. Just like you!
This discussion has been closed.