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At what point could Sunak be in trouble? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Driver said:

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Look who posted it. There is your answer.
    As far as I know the trains were strike bound yesterday
    Were there strikes yesterday? According to

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64189824.amp

    it was just driving examiners yesterday.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome

    Check out 'Bad People' on BBC sounds - more psychology, but links to experimental evidence too.
    I started off enjoying Bad People and Julia Shaw was clearly favoured by god in the looks and brains she was given however it just started to descend into conversations where her podcast partner seemed to be more interested in Dr Shaw and her own lesbian/bisexual tendencies and lost its way.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    It's an hour from City to Leeds Bradford, and he's got the journey from the airport at the other end to deal with.
    2h10 from KGX to Leeds (centre).

    I don't really buy that ~1 hour *in which can happily be working on the train* is worth the money and the emissions.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    As others have pointed out it was Rishi who took the knife to the Eastern leg of HS2 which would have gone to Leeds. After all why bother with high speed rail when you can just jet it?
    And why fund education or the NHS properly when you don't use those either? Out of touch.
    Nonsense, or should we restrict the eligibility of PM to those who have children and are actively using the NHS? Not to mention the vast array of other services the state provides.
    Someone who has actively chosen not to use public services is not someone I would trust to fund or manage those services effectively. You are free to be more trusting/gullible if you like.
    Then your list of candidates for PM must be very short indeed, as I can't imagine there are many people that take full advantage of all the public services that the state provides.
    That's not what I said. I'm not going to not vote for someone who hasn't used the probation service, for instance. But someone who has school aged kids and doesn't use state schools, or who has private health insurance so they don't rely on the NHS, do I believe they are fully invested in making those services as good as they can be? No, absolutely not. They're not getting my vote.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Damage limitation?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    They broke public transport, so he flies by private jet.

    They broke the NHS, and won't admit if he skips the queues.

    They’re out of touch, and out of time.

    https://twitter.com/LouHaigh/status/1612799219827351552
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1612786109288939520?s=20&t=5-gAmB4NCBAfNt-FNRbQ_A

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    As others have pointed out it was Rishi who took the knife to the Eastern leg of HS2 which would have gone to Leeds. After all why bother with high speed rail when you can just jet it?
    And why fund education or the NHS properly when you don't use those either? Out of touch.
    Nonsense, or should we restrict the eligibility of PM to those who have children and are actively using the NHS? Not to mention the vast array of other services the state provides.
    Someone who has actively chosen not to use public services is not someone I would trust to fund or manage those services effectively. You are free to be more trusting/gullible if you like.
    Then your list of candidates for PM must be very short indeed, as I can't imagine there are many people that take full advantage of all the public services that the state provides.
    That's not what I said. I'm not going to not vote for someone who hasn't used the probation service, for instance. But someone who has school aged kids and doesn't use state schools, or who has private health insurance so they don't rely on the NHS, do I believe they are fully invested in making those services as good as they can be? No, absolutely not. They're not getting my vote.
    But how can you be sure they are fully invested in making the justice system work, or the army?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited January 2023

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    Surely the ECML is fast enough already. The problem isn't the time, it is the capacity.

    I know the section from Doncaster to Leeds isn't exactly full speed, but it isn't _that_ bad.
    But it is DONCASTER.

    Or Doncatraz as it is known locally due to all the prisons nearby.
    I understood 'Doncatraz' to refer to the central prison as it is on an island in the River Don (sometimes literally when the access road floods). Admittedly there are a lot of facilities on the old RAF base at Lindholme but they are pretty rural and well out of the 'city'.

    Doncaster station isn't quite as bad on that front as Wakefield station, which literally overlooks the prison (with its famous Mulberry 'Bush', now sadly cut down).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Plenty of people make use of both public and private services. I don’t think it says anything about their fitness for office.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    The NE Seabed disaster linked to dredging of the freeport has the potential to sink Sunak; not the original disaster but the apparent refusal to halt work whilst independent investigations are carried out and seemingly, deliberate misdirection from DEFRA.

    Disaster? Is there a story we all missed?
    1-2 centuries' accumulated toxins in Tees estuary sediment dredged up and dumped offshore - mass mortality of marine life. Fishing industry and conservationists and anglers very, very unhappy, ditto tourist industry.
    Teesians looking enviously at other water systems that only have sewage to deal with.
    Wait for the promised freeport developements to start elsewhere.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome


    I’d recommend Sean Gabb’s videos on ancient history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,952
    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
  • Leon said:

    SPARE is also number 1 in amazon Canada


    https://www.amazon.ca/Best-Sellers-Books/zgbs/books

    And in the UK

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers/zgbs

    And Australia


    https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/bestsellers/books


    I think we can rest easy that it is “selling well”

    Spare was not flying off the shelves in Sainsbury's a couple of hours ago (or it was and they restocked the shelves just before I arrived).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Not all fats are the same - how the body reacts to and deals with fats is important. How many unsaturated bonds? Are they cis or trans (stop sniggering at the back, Carmichael)? Are there other components added (colour molecules)?

    Butter, derived from cows, is a superb food source. Turns baby calves into great big cows (or at least starts them off).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    As others have pointed out it was Rishi who took the knife to the Eastern leg of HS2 which would have gone to Leeds. After all why bother with high speed rail when you can just jet it?
    And why fund education or the NHS properly when you don't use those either? Out of touch.
    Nonsense, or should we restrict the eligibility of PM to those who have children and are actively using the NHS? Not to mention the vast array of other services the state provides.
    Someone who has actively chosen not to use public services is not someone I would trust to fund or manage those services effectively. You are free to be more trusting/gullible if you like.
    Then your list of candidates for PM must be very short indeed, as I can't imagine there are many people that take full advantage of all the public services that the state provides.
    That's not what I said. I'm not going to not vote for someone who hasn't used the probation service, for instance. But someone who has school aged kids and doesn't use state schools, or who has private health insurance so they don't rely on the NHS, do I believe they are fully invested in making those services as good as they can be? No, absolutely not. They're not getting my vote.
    But how can you be sure they are fully invested in making the justice system work, or the army?
    Well if it transpired that they had a bolthole on New Zealand they were planning to fly to in the event the UK were attacked I probably wouldn't trust them on the army either. Otherwise, they're as dependent on our forces as the rest of us are.
    At the end of the day, a politician who doesn't use public services thinks they're not good enough for them, but that they'll do for the rest of us, and rather than trying to improve them they're simply choosing to opt out. You might trust people like that, I don't.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited January 2023
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spare will probably be the best selling non fiction book of the year, worldwide, and also the most talked-about, adding to its prestige and lustre

    For multiple reasons publishers will pay over the odds for that. The sales figures are almost secondary

    Eg the next huge public figure seeking a publisher is more likely to gravitate to the publishers who did such a good job with SPARE. The publishers of a British prince! Etc etc

    Publishing SPARE says “we are a major player. We change the news. If you want to make a splash, publish with us”

    NB: SPARE is now number 1 overall on amazon.com


    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books/zgbs/books

    Absolutely. You can smell the desperation, obvious in many PBers, for it to bomb. Yet another PB Not Happening Event.

    Of course, Harry's very interesting life story of sex, drugs, family stifle, mental health problems and prejudice is so far removed from the sheltered existences of many of the cheese-sandwich-eating toy soldiers on here, one can see why they prefer musty hagiographies of ancient kings and detailed accounts of sea battles written by former editors of the Daily Telegraph.

    I never had any doubt it would be huge. The British Royal Family is the most popular and widely watched real life soap opera in the world. It dwarfs anything else. It even has its own TV spin off, The Crown, which is itself probably the most watched TV programme in the world


    ““The Crown” Season 5 has taken the throne on this week’s Netflix Top 10’s English TV chart as the No. 1 show over the Nov. 7-13 viewing window. According to the streamer’s figures, the show’s fifth season was viewed for 107.39 million hours following its premiere on Nov. 9, and is in the Top 10 in 88 countries.

    In addition, the show also reached No. 1 in 37 countries including the UK, US, Canada, Australia, Germany, Italy, and France

    https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/the-crown-season-5-no-1-globally-netflix-1235432965/

    What can match that? Nothing

    The Royal Family should not worry too much. With this sort of interest their future is assured for many decades

    The time they need to worry is when The Crown has only 7 viewers and a book by a British Prince only reaches number 1,629 on the Amazon “memoirs by British toffs” sub list
    And within 20 years, the beloved King William and Queen Catherine will be on the throne, although the adulterers in the rear view mirror.
    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Bizarre/stupid post.

    "I have seen something change and therefore I will make up a reason based on nothing whatsoever."

    As cranky as the conspiracy theorists.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome

    I don't listen to podcasts but my wife does, and like you was obsessed with the Battersea Poltergeist. Her current favourite is You Must Remember This, which is about golden age Hollywood.
  • Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    mwadams said:

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    It's an hour from City to Leeds Bradford, and he's got the journey from the airport at the other end to deal with.
    2h10 from KGX to Leeds (centre).

    I don't really buy that ~1 hour *in which can happily be working on the train* is worth the money and the emissions.
    I doubt it even saves an hour. With the faff of flying and transfers, train is probably quicker city centre to city centre.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    You say that having been to Hull?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Not all fats are the same - how the body reacts to and deals with fats is important. How many unsaturated bonds? Are they cis or trans (stop sniggering at the back, Carmichael)? Are there other components added (colour molecules)?

    Butter, derived from cows, is a superb food source. Turns baby calves into great big cows (or at least starts them off).
    Vegetable oil is derived from vegetables, which animals including humans seem to eat with few ill effects. Margarine doesn't have hydrogenated and trans fats in them anymore as far as I know, or at least Flora doesn't. Weren't they the bad ones?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Sandpit said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Well, if the trains are on strike, you’d not want to spend six hours in a car doing the trip.
    Trains on strike? Is Thomas the ringleader?
  • Leon said:

    I am old enough to remember when Bangkok had literally zero high rise buildings. This is from my hotel room window

    Spend your next holiday in Greenwich and you will be able to say the same about the view of the glass and concrete towers of Canary Wharf.
  • Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome


    I’d recommend Sean Gabb’s videos on ancient history.
    Seconded. Very good indeed.

    Also for podcasts, Battleground Ukraine with Saul David and Patrick Bishop. Really interesting and well informed with lots of interesting guests.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited January 2023

    Sandpit said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Well, if the trains are on strike, you’d not want to spend six hours in a car doing the trip.
    Trains on strike? Is Thomas the ringleader?
    They tried that, over working conditions, in one of my kids' books, though I think it was James, Gordon and Henry (or maybe Edward). Edward (or maybe Henry) and Thomas and Percy were willing scabs and the Fat Controller broke the strike, leading the strikers to apologise and return to work with no improvement in working conditions.

    The man (toff in a top hat) sticking it to the working man train in young children's books; lessons learned for life.

    ETA: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Fat_Controller.html?id=ggCsHwAACAAJ
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    Surely the ECML is fast enough already. The problem isn't the time, it is the capacity.

    I know the section from Doncaster to Leeds isn't exactly full speed, but it isn't _that_ bad.
    But it is DONCASTER.

    Or Doncatraz as it is known locally due to all the prisons nearby.
    I understood 'Doncatraz' to refer to the central prison as it is on an island in the River Don (sometimes literally when the access road floods). Admittedly there are a lot of facilities on the old RAF base at Lindholme but they are pretty rural and well out of the 'city'.

    Doncaster station isn't quite as bad on that front as Wakefield station, which literally overlooks the prison (with its famous Mulberry 'Bush', now sadly cut down).
    Bush been replaced (albeit not quite as it was).

    https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/people/a-mulberry-bush-said-to-have-inspired-a-famous-childrens-rhyme-is-replanted-in-wakefield-prison-3427745
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Leon said:

    I am old enough to remember when Bangkok had literally zero high rise buildings. This is from my hotel room window

    Spend your next holiday in Greenwich and you will be able to say the same about the view of the glass and concrete towers of Canary Wharf.
    Hmm, there are people still alive for whom St Paul's was the highest thing in the City.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Not all fats are the same - how the body reacts to and deals with fats is important. How many unsaturated bonds? Are they cis or trans (stop sniggering at the back, Carmichael)? Are there other components added (colour molecules)?

    Butter, derived from cows, is a superb food source. Turns baby calves into great big cows (or at least starts them off).
    Most sources of medical information on the internet seem to be in two minds on butter. On the one hand, it is a good source of various vitamins and nutrients; on the other hand its saturated fat content may contribute to heart disease.

    As is often the case, a little of what you like, in moderation, seems to be the best idea.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🗯️ Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner responded to the introduction of a bill enforcing minimum service levels during strikes

    "My constituent died waiting for an ambulance and that was not on a strike day"

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1612807351832133639/video/1
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    My wife is part of a long term study on cholesterol as her family has a genetic history of producing large amounts of it. One of the interesting points that the doctors running the study make is that there is very little evidence that dietary cholesterol plays much of a part in increasing risk factors for heart attacks and strokes and that it is primarily abnormal amounts of cholesterol produced naturally by the body which are the main issue.

    I have no idea of the veracity of this, all I know is that these are the people running the study so I assume they have some evidence for this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    You say that having been to Hull?
    There were never any dreams or spirits to die in Hull.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,419
    edited January 2023
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    Which is why I take simplistic nutrition advice with a large pinch of salt.
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am old enough to remember when Bangkok had literally zero high rise buildings. This is from my hotel room window

    Spend your next holiday in Greenwich and you will be able to say the same about the view of the glass and concrete towers of Canary Wharf.
    Hmm, there are people still alive for whom St Paul's was the highest thing in the City.
    Ken Livingstone is widely seen as second cousin to Che Marx but in the real world, Ken made London safe for property developers.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Leon said:

    Spare will probably be the best selling non fiction book of the year, worldwide, and also the most talked-about, adding to its prestige and lustre

    For multiple reasons publishers will pay over the odds for that. The sales figures are almost secondary

    Eg the next huge public figure seeking a publisher is more likely to gravitate to the publishers who did such a good job with SPARE. The publishers of a British prince! Etc etc

    Publishing SPARE says “we are a major player. We change the news. If you want to make a splash, publish with us”

    NB: SPARE is now number 1 overall on amazon.com


    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books/zgbs/books

    Absolutely. You can smell the desperation, obvious in many PBers, for it to bomb. Yet another PB Not Happening Event.

    Of course, Harry's very interesting life story of sex, drugs, family stifle, mental health problems and prejudice is so far removed from the sheltered existences of many of the cheese-sandwich-eating toy soldiers on here, one can see why they prefer musty hagiographies of ancient kings and detailed accounts of sea battles written by former editors of the Daily Telegraph.

    Oh don't talk twaddle. My own family have had all the things you mention and more - over generations. There are books and books which could be filled with all the tales we have to tell in our family. The fact that the RF is full of entitled spoilt brats, distant parents, emotional neglect and even cruelty - let alone drugs, sex and the rest - is something we've known about for ages, since at least the time of Victoria. Harry is just the latest iteration of it.

    Though whining about not having a large enough room in one of the many Palaces your family own does have more than a whiff of Wilde's comment on the death of Little Nell about it.



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,952
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Scott_xP said:

    🗯️ Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner responded to the introduction of a bill enforcing minimum service levels during strikes

    "My constituent died waiting for an ambulance and that was not on a strike day"

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1612807351832133639/video/1

    So if it had happened on a strike day, that would have been OK with Ms Rayner?
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Not all fats are the same - how the body reacts to and deals with fats is important. How many unsaturated bonds? Are they cis or trans (stop sniggering at the back, Carmichael)? Are there other components added (colour molecules)?

    Butter, derived from cows, is a superb food source. Turns baby calves into great big cows (or at least starts them off).
    Most sources of medical information on the internet seem to be in two minds on butter. On the one hand, it is a good source of various vitamins and nutrients; on the other hand its saturated fat content may contribute to heart disease.

    As is often the case, a little of what you like, in moderation, seems to be the best idea.
    You are Marie Lloyd AICMFP.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🗯️ Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner responded to the introduction of a bill enforcing minimum service levels during strikes

    "My constituent died waiting for an ambulance and that was not on a strike day"

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1612807351832133639/video/1

    So if it had happened on a strike day, that would have been OK with Ms Rayner?
    Not quite the point most of us took from that anecdote I think.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,435

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Because of the hydrogenation and presence of trans fats. It's a hydrocarbon. I'm not even sure it's a food.

    I just love this long lecture on edible oils vs. traditional fats by Sally Fallon Morell from the Weston A Price Foundation - you may hate it, or sinply have no interest in it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    Surely the ECML is fast enough already. The problem isn't the time, it is the capacity.

    I know the section from Doncaster to Leeds isn't exactly full speed, but it isn't _that_ bad.
    But it is DONCASTER.

    Or Doncatraz as it is known locally due to all the prisons nearby.
    I understood 'Doncatraz' to refer to the central prison as it is on an island in the River Don (sometimes literally when the access road floods). Admittedly there are a lot of facilities on the old RAF base at Lindholme but they are pretty rural and well out of the 'city'.

    Doncaster station isn't quite as bad on that front as Wakefield station, which literally overlooks the prison (with its famous Mulberry 'Bush', now sadly cut down).
    A former girlfriend's granny lived in the shadow of the prison, in the 80's when we used to visit her. She came over to nurse in the Great War and stayed. In her 90's, she'd still scoot off to the local shop when we appeared, coming back with arms full of cakes and biscuits.

    She came over from County Wicklow. Despite being surrounded by the broadest Yorkshire accents you could wish to find, her delightful Wicklow lilt had not altered one jot in 70 years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    It's better than it used to be. I grew up round there and the smell from the glue factory - "Prosper De Mulders" - when the wind blew strong from the East is in my pores to this day. They say smell is the most emotional of senses and they're not wrong.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome

    There's a podcast on the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier in West Cork.

    One aspect that might interest you in particular is that Sophie was said to have seen a ghost at Three Castle Head on the day before her death.

    https://www.westcorkpodcast.com/
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🗯️ Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner responded to the introduction of a bill enforcing minimum service levels during strikes

    "My constituent died waiting for an ambulance and that was not on a strike day"

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1612807351832133639/video/1

    So if it had happened on a strike day, that would have been OK with Ms Rayner?
    All political point scoring.
  • LOL at Boris getting the Yezhov treatment! Grant Shapps showing his Stalinist tendencies.

    Boris Johnson erased from Grant Shapps spaceport picture
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    I have to say, I don't find (current or former) Tory voters who regret ditching Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,952

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    I have to say, I don't find (current or former) Tory voters who regret ditching Boris.
    Well most of the 5 to 10% now voting RefUK voted Tory under Boris
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,952

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    When Boris was removed last June the Tories were polling higher than now
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    Which is why I take simplistic nutrition advice with a large pinch of salt.
    No, don't do that !
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Because of the hydrogenation and presence of trans fats. It's a hydrocarbon. I'm not even sure it's a food.

    I just love this long lecture on edible oils vs. traditional fats by Sally Fallon Morell from the Weston A Price Foundation - you may hate it, or sinply have no interest in it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8
    Hmmm. Olive oil is a hydrocarbon, with a very little oxygen (but so does any other triglyceride). So that's not an argument.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    mwadams said:

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    It's an hour from City to Leeds Bradford, and he's got the journey from the airport at the other end to deal with.
    2h10 from KGX to Leeds (centre).

    I don't really buy that ~1 hour *in which can happily be working on the train* is worth the money and the emissions.
    Perhaps I watch too much TV, but, given the hostility towards politicians and this government at the moment, if I was in charge of the PM's security I'd be dammed unhappy about them taking a train.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Very interesting intervention from former minister 👇👇👇 https://twitter.com/smcpartland/status/1612807662500028417
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    HELP

    I am belatedly addicted to podcasts thanks to Danny Robins’ Battersea Poltergeist and the follow ups. They are brilliant to listen to during tedious chores - long drives, the gym, household tasks, waiting for the go-go bars to open

    Can anyone recommend some really great podcasts? I like anything on - you guessed it - Wokeness, AI, aliens, ghosts, generally weird things, futurology, mad history, Forteana, extreme military stuff, wine and cheese

    No politics please, I get an ample share of that here

    Any and all suggestions welcome

    The podcast on Aberfan is an absolute must listen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09z3n7y

    Where is George Gibney? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p08njhrm is also good - less for the attempts to find the man - but more for listening to the voices of his victims.

    GUBU - about Irish murderer Malcolm MacArthur in the 1970's is a weird and fascinating story - https://shows.acast.com/gubu/episodes.

    Powerplay: The House of Sep Blatter is interesting on football and corruption.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Because of the hydrogenation and presence of trans fats. It's a hydrocarbon. I'm not even sure it's a food.

    I just love this long lecture on edible oils vs. traditional fats by Sally Fallon Morell from the Weston A Price Foundation - you may hate it, or sinply have no interest in it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8
    Flora doesn't contain any hydrogenated oil/trans fats so is presumably okay?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited January 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    It's better than it used to be. I grew up round there and the smell from the glue factory - "Prosper De Mulders" - when the wind blew strong from the East is in my pores to this day. They say smell is the most emotional of senses and they're not wrong.
    De Mulders is still going, if now under the name of SARIA, although it didn't just make glue.

    It also made BSE (allegedly) as it produces cattle feed from rendered meat and bones. The company had a near monopoly of that process.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    mwadams said:

    RobD said:

    NEW: Rishi Sunak took a private jet to Leeds yesterday, No 10 say, because it was the most efficient use of his limited time. ✈️

    Rishi is useless.

    Why wouldn't you want the PM to be able to get around as quickly and conveniently as possible?
    Us plebs have to use the trains, Rishi got his chopper out and curtailed the Eastern leg of HS2.
    It's an hour from City to Leeds Bradford, and he's got the journey from the airport at the other end to deal with.
    2h10 from KGX to Leeds (centre).

    I don't really buy that ~1 hour *in which can happily be working on the train* is worth the money and the emissions.
    Perhaps I watch too much TV, but, given the hostility towards politicians and this government at the moment, if I was in charge of the PM's security I'd be dammed unhappy about them taking a train.
    IIRC the security angle stuffs up nearly every attempt to use normal travel for politicians. So you get a convoy of vehicles surrounding politician x on his bike, for example - several European leaders end up in this situation.

    Nixon was the last US president to try and travel on commercial air. Which caused hideous delays for everyone else.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
    Oh good. We can have a war on cigarettes to add to the pointless war on drugs.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    When Boris was removed last June the Tories were polling higher than now
    "Boris" and the sycophantic clowns he surrounded himself with are the originating causation of the polling. He trashed the brand. It will take a significant period of opposition for that brand to be restored. You should stop trying to apologise for him, he was an utter long term disaster.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    kinabalu said:

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    It's better than it used to be. I grew up round there and the smell from the glue factory - "Prosper De Mulders" - when the wind blew strong from the East is in my pores to this day. They say smell is the most emotional of senses and they're not wrong.
    De Mulders is still going, if now under the name of SARIA, although it didn't just make glue.

    It also made BSE (allegedly) as it produces cattle feed from rendered meat and bones. The company had a near monopoly of that process.
    But not the stink I very much hope? Some modern Regs must surely have stopped that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    When Boris was removed last June the Tories were polling higher than now
    "Boris" and the sycophantic clowns he surrounded himself with are the originating causation of the polling. He trashed the brand. It will take a significant period of opposition for that brand to be restored. You should stop trying to apologise for him, he was an utter long term disaster.
    But he's trending on Twitter.

    Though mainly for variations of this story:
    I fully support airbrushing Boris Johnson out of as much of public life as possible.
    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1612776715478077441

    And this one.
    Boris Johnson “earned” more in an HOUR from his non-MP speeches (while supposedly representing the good people of his constituency) than a nurse does in a whole YEAR
    https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1612046468243750914
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    I have to say, I don't find (current or former) Tory voters who regret ditching Boris.
    Well most of the 5 to 10% now voting RefUK voted Tory under Boris
    REFUK would be a good name to describe what happens to the Tories if they are stupid enough to bring back The Clown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
    Oh good. We can have a war on cigarettes to add to the pointless war on drugs.
    Smoking, toking, and .... wokeing ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
    Oh good. We can have a war on cigarettes to add to the pointless war on drugs.
    Well, it would be very unfair on the drug dealers to leave them stuck after Mary Jane is legalised.

    IIRC in a couple of American detective shows, the plot has centred on Big Tobacco swapping knowledge and crops with the cartels - the cartels are looking to tobacco as the future of illegal drugs and the Big Tobacco guys are swapping into weed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
    Oh good. We can have a war on cigarettes to add to the pointless war on drugs.
    One might have thought, that by now politicians might have got the message that banning plants doesn’t work.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
  • Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's fairly inevitable.

    I've already started looking at the prices for a boat to outrun customs....
    Oh good. We can have a war on cigarettes to add to the pointless war on drugs.
    One might have thought, that by now politicians might have got the message that banning plants doesn’t work.
    Our government continues in its unscientific and pointless banning of GM crops, so you could add that one to the list
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,435

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    Perhaps I am unusual in this opinion but I much prefer Flora to butter, taste-wise.
    Then I'd save it for the occasional treat.
    Why? It's just vegetable oil and water.
    Because of the hydrogenation and presence of trans fats. It's a hydrocarbon. I'm not even sure it's a food.

    I just love this long lecture on edible oils vs. traditional fats by Sally Fallon Morell from the Weston A Price Foundation - you may hate it, or sinply have no interest in it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8
    Flora doesn't contain any hydrogenated oil/trans fats so is presumably okay?
    It's about 0.5% rather than zero is my understanding.

    Personally I'd also avoid anything with plant sterols: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/toxins-on-your-toast/#gsc.tab=0
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    https://twitter.com/SCG_77/status/1611757782084063232

    Probably not specific to Stoke, which has a population of 1/4 of a million - likely happening all over Britain's provincial towns & cities...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ah Doncaster, I used to visit occasionally on my trips up to Hull.

    A place where dreams and spirits die.

    It's better than it used to be. I grew up round there and the smell from the glue factory - "Prosper De Mulders" - when the wind blew strong from the East is in my pores to this day. They say smell is the most emotional of senses and they're not wrong.
    De Mulders is still going, if now under the name of SARIA, although it didn't just make glue.

    It also made BSE (allegedly) as it produces cattle feed from rendered meat and bones. The company had a near monopoly of that process.
    But not the stink I very much hope? Some modern Regs must surely have stopped that.
    Maybe not as bad as it used to be, but it certainly isn't whiff free under the wrong conditions.

    The vats of 'stuff' still aren't all covered...
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5324069,-1.1387075,103m/data=!3m1!1e3

    They are netted I think (not visible in Google's image) but the seagulls still circle.

    The BSE link was brought up in parliament (as part of a lobbying link between an MP and the company) but somehow they escaped explicit blame.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No. I'm one of the 35% who think the Tories were wrong to remove Boris (for strictly electoral reasons). But I'm not a potential Tory voter, Boris or no Boris. I'm sure I'm not alone.
    Yes, in ditching the Bloviating Blob the Tories acted totally out of character by putting country above party. Sort of.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Spare will probably be the best selling non fiction book of the year, worldwide, and also the most talked-about, adding to its prestige and lustre

    For multiple reasons publishers will pay over the odds for that. The sales figures are almost secondary

    Eg the next huge public figure seeking a publisher is more likely to gravitate to the publishers who did such a good job with SPARE. The publishers of a British prince! Etc etc

    Publishing SPARE says “we are a major player. We change the news. If you want to make a splash, publish with us”

    NB: SPARE is now number 1 overall on amazon.com


    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books/zgbs/books

    Absolutely. You can smell the desperation, obvious in many PBers, for it to bomb. Yet another PB Not Happening Event.

    Of course, Harry's very interesting life story of sex, drugs, family stifle, mental health problems and prejudice is so far removed from the sheltered existences of many of the cheese-sandwich-eating toy soldiers on here, one can see why they prefer musty hagiographies of ancient kings and detailed accounts of sea battles written by former editors of the Daily Telegraph.

    Oh don't talk twaddle. My own family have had all the things you mention and more - over generations. There are books and books which could be filled with all the tales we have to tell in our family. The fact that the RF is full of entitled spoilt brats, distant parents, emotional neglect and even cruelty - let alone drugs, sex and the rest - is something we've known about for ages, since at least the time of Victoria. Harry is just the latest iteration of it.

    Though whining about not having a large enough room in one of the many Palaces your family own does have more than a whiff of Wilde's comment on the death of Little Nell about it.


    “Poor little rich kids” is my response to Harry and Meghan’s “woes.”

    They lead lives of unimaginable privilege, compared to 99.99% of the rest of the world.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
    Absolutely no way that banning an addictive drug will lead to illegal activity, is there?

    If we legalised and regulated drugs, we could defund some really extraordinary arseholes. Just for a start.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
    The War on Drugs has been …. Less than optimal.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Nigelb said:

    Commendable.

    Statement of Support for Art Professor Fired from Hamline University
    https://www.mpac.org/statement/statement-of-support-for-art-professor-fired-from-hamline-university/
    It is with great concern that the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) views the firing of an art professor, Erika López Prater, from Hamline University on the grounds of showing a fourteenth-century painting depicting the Prophet Muḥammad. We issue this statement of support for the professor and urge the university to reverse its decision and to take compensatory action to ameliorate the situation.

    News sources report that the matter reached the university administration after a Muslim student complained to them about the professor showing the image in class. Subsequently, undergraduate students at the university received an email from the administration declaring the incident to be “undeniably inconsiderate, disrespectful and Islamophobic.” Because the professor was hired as an adjunct, her contract was not renewed and she was effectively fired.

    As a Muslim organization, we recognize the validity and ubiquity of an Islamic viewpoint that discourages or forbids any depictions of the Prophet, especially if done in a distasteful or disrespectful manner. However, we also recognize the historical reality that other viewpoints have existed and that there have been some Muslims, including and especially Shīʿī Muslims, who have felt no qualms in pictorially representing the Prophet (although often veiling his face out of respect). All this is a testament to the great internal diversity within the Islamic tradition, which should be celebrated.

    This, it seems, was the exact point that Dr. Prater was trying to convey to her students. She empathetically prepared them in advance for the image, which was part of an optional exercise and prefaced with a content warning. “I am showing you this image for a reason,” stressed the professor:

    There is this common thinking that Islam completely forbids, outright, any figurative depictions or any depictions of holy personages. While many Islamic cultures do strongly frown on this practice, I would like to remind you there is no one, monothetic Islamic culture.

    The painting was not Islamophobic. In fact, it was commissioned by a fourteenth-century Muslim king in order to honor the Prophet, depicting the first Quranic revelation from the angel Gabriel.

    Even if it is the case that many Muslims feel uncomfortable with such depictions, Dr. Prater was trying to emphasize a key principle of religious literacy: religions are not monolithic in nature, but rather, internally diverse. This principle should be appreciated in order to combat Islamophobia, which is often premised on flattening out Islam and viewing the Islamic tradition in an essentialist and reductionist manner. The professor should be thanked for her role in educating students, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, and for doing so in a critically empathetic manner...

    Yes.

    I am reminded of the rather Byzantine styled triptych that someone I know bought at a little shop outside a major mosque in Tehran.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    edited January 2023
    '
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
    Prohibition waves hello.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Incidentally, can I recommend Ken Burns' latest documentary "The US and the Holocaust" on BBC4.

    It is more wide-ranging than the title suggests, starting with attitudes to immigration in the 19th and early 20th century and how they changed, the influence of eugenics - a harmful pseudo science that nonetheless captured the attention of many influential people - and much else besides. The echoes in our time are unmistakeable.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    edited January 2023

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
    Absolutely no way that banning an addictive drug will lead to illegal activity, is there?

    If we legalised and regulated drugs, we could defund some really extraordinary arseholes. Just for a start.
    Yes. Two things seem obvious to me. It's best that illegal drugs are legalised, so that their content can be regulated, they can be taxed and the drugs gangs are defunded, and that as few people take the drugs as possible, to reduce the harmful health effects.

    This also implies that if we could develop similar drugs with fewer harmful side effects then we'd be on to a winner, but there seems to be a puritanical reluctance for such research.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Do Britons believe the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (4-5 Jan)

    Right 51% (+4)
    Wrong 35% (-2)
    Don't know 14% (-2)

    Changes +/- 21 Oct (when Truss was PM)

    55% of 2019 Conservative voters believe it was the wrong decision. https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1612798969565814786/photo/1

    35% of voters is more than the less than 30% now voting Tory
    But non-Tory voters might have all sorts of reasons for their response, and are hardly likely to switch to the Tories now if they didn't back them in 2019.

    The key statistic is that only just over half of former Tory voters think it was the wrong decision, and that the number is falling - i.e. absence isn't making them fonder
    The key statistic is that under Boris the Tories were polling higher in June 2019 than they are now under Sunak and were under Truss.

    Through fact 35% still think it was wrong to remove him gives 35% potential Tory voteshare too so until Sunak gets the Tories back over 30% he remains at risk of a Boris comeback
    No, because the world has changed since June 2019:

    - the abject s**tshow and melodrama that the Conservatives have inflicted upon us since;

    - the growing realisation that Brexit is snake oil that was sold to us on a package of lies;

    - the economic catastrophe that has since then crept up on so many ordinary people's lives.

    If you think that voters could ever return to the mindset of June 2019, should your hero the lying discredited clown return to the big chair, then you are even more stupid than most PB'ers already think.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    This thread is no longer fit for human consumption

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Pulpstar said:

    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.

    Wait until they realise how much tax revenue they’ll lose, when cars with engines are banned.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Tory failure has led us to the worst strikes in decades.

    Now instead of resolving them, the government are trying to force through anti-worker legislation to fire nurses and teachers.

    The Tories need to negotiate not legislate. If passed, my government will repeal this law.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1612823753792143361
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    My wife is part of a long term study on cholesterol as her family has a genetic history of producing large amounts of it. One of the interesting points that the doctors running the study make is that there is very little evidence that dietary cholesterol plays much of a part in increasing risk factors for heart attacks and strokes and that it is primarily abnormal amounts of cholesterol produced naturally by the body which are the main issue.

    I have no idea of the veracity of this, all I know is that these are the people running the study so I assume they have some evidence for this.
    Many many moons ago I had a medical and found cholesterol level was 11.8, statins brought it to normal levels and various consultants have said that no change of diet could fix levels like that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    “The more vivid the dream of Johnson’s return becomes, the more certain it should be that the party requires a spell in opposition.” Great column by ⁦@robertshrimsley⁩
    https://enterprise-sharing.ft.com/redeem/1bd58de9-e29c-4f99-ad84-a443eef4f3a5
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.

    Wait until they realise how much tax revenue they’ll lose, when cars with engines are banned.
    They will just tax electric cars , for charging , using road and any other thing they can make up so they get the same amount of cash.
  • malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Pro_Rata said:

    Excess death stats bad and as well as the 'are hospitals stresses involved' and 'post infection' they are singling out heart disease in 50-64 year old men as an issue.

    So, a couple of unevidenced personal suspicions here as possible contributing factors:

    - The resurgence in the popularity of butter
    - The widespread use of erectile dysfunction medicines

    Butter is not bad for the heart. Being overweght, having high cholesterol, taking little or no exercise is bad for the heart.
    Cholesterol is a body repair mechanism. If you have weak blood vessels, your body will produce it. It's therefore an unjustified bogeyman to sell statins and shitty margerines. Like locking up firemen because there's a high correlation between them and housefires.
    I agree to some extent, yet there is evidence linking high levels with increased risk. Whether the high level is causative is certainly up for grabs, and many people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels.
    Like everything in health, its complicated.
    Fiendishly so, as even a brief perusal of Wikipedia makes clear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    My wife is part of a long term study on cholesterol as her family has a genetic history of producing large amounts of it. One of the interesting points that the doctors running the study make is that there is very little evidence that dietary cholesterol plays much of a part in increasing risk factors for heart attacks and strokes and that it is primarily abnormal amounts of cholesterol produced naturally by the body which are the main issue.

    I have no idea of the veracity of this, all I know is that these are the people running the study so I assume they have some evidence for this.
    Many many moons ago I had a medical and found cholesterol level was 11.8, statins brought it to normal levels and various consultants have said that no change of diet could fix levels like that.
    Much to my annoyance I have a reverse problem. I have yearly medicals for working offshore and general health checkups and this year my Q score (chance of a heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years) has just slipped over 10. This is the boundary at which they say they want to put me on Statins. But my cholesterol is nice and healthy and normal and the reason I have gone over 10 is my weight and my age - both of which feed into the score. So putting me on statins is pointless. I have an aversion to taking unnecessary medicines but it now means I keep getting letters from the GPs saying they want me to start them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.

    Wait until they realise how much tax revenue they’ll lose, when cars with engines are banned.
    They will just tax electric cars , for charging , using road and any other thing they can make up so they get the same amount of cash.
    Why would they tax pensioners ability to move around in their new cars when they could simply increase National Insurance on young workers instead?
  • malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.

    Wait until they realise how much tax revenue they’ll lose, when cars with engines are banned.
    They will just tax electric cars , for charging , using road and any other thing they can make up so they get the same amount of cash.
    They are way ahead of you. VED was already announced for electric vehicles by Hunt in the last budget.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Cyclefree said:

    '

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Tick from me. Only way I'll kick the wretched addiction. And if not a total ban I like the NZ age ratchet. Either way JFDI. There is zero downside.
    Prohibition waves hello.
    I view it as abolishing slavery. Just super good all round.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, can I recommend Ken Burns' latest documentary "The US and the Holocaust" on BBC4.

    It is more wide-ranging than the title suggests, starting with attitudes to immigration in the 19th and early 20th century and how they changed, the influence of eugenics - a harmful pseudo science that nonetheless captured the attention of many influential people - and much else besides. The echoes in our time are unmistakeable.

    Yes, I started watching that last night. A real eye opener.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cigarettes are both amazingly price inelastic and completely uneccessary from a wider PoV. So the current solution of taxing them through the nose is correct. A ban would lose lots of tax revenue.

    Wait until they realise how much tax revenue they’ll lose, when cars with engines are banned.
    They will just tax electric cars , for charging , using road and any other thing they can make up so they get the same amount of cash.
    Why would they tax pensioners ability to move around in their new cars when they could simply increase National Insurance on young workers instead?
    Green cheese there methinks.
This discussion has been closed.