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Are the Tories too far behind to recover? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,594
    edited December 2022

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12
    darkage said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Slightly off topic but I was at Schipol airport recently, 5 euros for a Douwe egberts machine instant coffee. A 'flat white' apparently.
    Northern Europe is now very expensive for average income earners in the UK. By the way a beer in las vegas is now $10 and an average buffet at least $50. North America very expensive also. Cape Town is great value though.
  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Bothe right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    We now have pretty clear evidence the 1960 US election between Nixon and Kennedy was rigged and its also become admitted and increasingly clear that Kennedy was assasinated by the cia. Conspiracies are everywhere, ask the average guy in Egypt who was responsible for 911.
  • What a fount of "knowledge" is our newest "poster".

    A "true" Renaissance bot.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,330
    Lee10 said:

    darkage said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Slightly off topic but I was at Schipol airport recently, 5 euros for a Douwe egberts machine instant coffee. A 'flat white' apparently.
    Northern Europe is now very expensive for average income earners in the UK. By the way a beer in las vegas is now $10 and an average buffet at least $50. North America very expensive also. Cape Town is great value though.
    I think that Britain is now very expensive for average earners in the UK....
    In my experience the prices in northern Europe have gone up as well, but not by quite as much. Perhaps connected to Brexit.
    The 5 euro coffee was just annoying, if you pay that much you expect more than budget machine coffee of the type you might get in a hospital in the middle of the night.

  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12

    Lee10 said:

    Lee10 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Independent journalist says we should stop asking people how their Christmas was

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1607711499220570113?t=ls4sccdd4IKDuuTUKySWkg&s=19

    Christmas was too overrated and commercialised now. Starts at halloween with a ridiculously long run up then by xmas day afternoon ads are all for the boxing day sales. Sadly our society has lost the true meaning of Christmas due to corporate capitalism using it for its own purposes and dragging many good people into debt. A simpler festival such as they have in other countries would be preferable.
    Moscow?
    Dont know if anyone has seen that christmas ad in Russia where Putin comes dressed as Santa to rescue the young from the terror of lgbt and trans. Russians truly believe they are fighting satanism in the west something to bear in mind.
    You may well have an advantage over the rest of us when it comes to familiarity with Russian TV commercials.
    you can actually see it on twitter. I will try and find you a link sometime.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    Lee10 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Bothe right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    We now have pretty clear evidence the 1960 US election between Nixon and Kennedy was rigged and its also become admitted and increasingly clear that Kennedy was assasinated by the cia. Conspiracies are everywhere, ask the average guy in Egypt who was responsible for 911.
    Zdravstvuite @Lee10
  • TresTres Posts: 2,687
    The next one will be Wigan11
  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12
    darkage said:

    Lee10 said:

    darkage said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Slightly off topic but I was at Schipol airport recently, 5 euros for a Douwe egberts machine instant coffee. A 'flat white' apparently.
    Northern Europe is now very expensive for average income earners in the UK. By the way a beer in las vegas is now $10 and an average buffet at least $50. North America very expensive also. Cape Town is great value though.
    I think that Britain is now very expensive for average earners in the UK....
    In my experience the prices in northern Europe have gone up as well, but not by quite as much. Perhaps connected to Brexit.
    The 5 euro coffee was just annoying, if you pay that much you expect more than budget machine coffee of the type you might get in a hospital in the middle of the night.

    Yes indeed it is. For example a decent hotel on a saturday night in a large english city can easily set you back £200 (and this is outside London.) Then you have the ever increasing cost of meals and drinks.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:


    Black sheep of the family?

    Are we in for a heartwarming Christmas reconciliation?
  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:


    i hear you are having nice weather at the moment in Los Angeles rcs.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,282
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:


    It’s a perfectly common surname. LOL.
    Perhaps it is your “evil” cousin.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:


    Wow, a relative of whom you were previously unaware. Uncanny.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    And...


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    Goodbye Lee from St Petersberg.
  • Lee10Lee10 Posts: 12
    I was in Los Angeles in December once...beautiful weather and you could even get on the beach a bit. I presume rcs you live on the westside so are not too far from the beaches.
  • Think that OGH should adopt "I, Smithson" (with or without comma) for his future pronunciamentos?
  • rcs1000 said:

    And...


    Queen - Another One Bites the Dust
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    Lee10 said:

    darkage said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Slightly off topic but I was at Schipol airport recently, 5 euros for a Douwe egberts machine instant coffee. A 'flat white' apparently.
    Northern Europe is now very expensive for average income earners in the UK. By the way a beer in las vegas is now $10 and an average buffet at least $50. North America very expensive also. Cape Town is great value though.
    As an aside, yes a buffet at the Bellagio ($60) or the Wynn ($65) will set you back more than $50, they are hardly average for Las Vegas.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,356
    edited December 2022
    I don't get the gay marriage tactics. What is it supposed to achieve?
    Or do they actually believe an anti-LGBT strongman would sweep the Red Wall, but for the elite?
  • All the work that Russia puts into these bots, you'd think they would make them more convincing like Boris Johnson was
  • All the work that Russia puts into these bots, you'd think they would make them more convincing like Boris Johnson was

    It's probably like the rest of the Russian armed forces. All the funds for proper trolling get creamed off, but nobody dares tell their boss that things are a bit rubbish, really.
  • dixiedean said:

    I don't get the gay marriage tactics. What is it supposed to achieve?
    Or do they actually believe an anti-LGBT strongman would sweep the Red Wall, but for the elite?

    The thinking is that red wallers are socially conservative, so lets attack woke to make them vote for us. Problem is that whilst they *are* socially conservative they don't feel particularly threatened by gayers getting married. Irritated maybe, if GBeebies winds them up. But less wound up by the cost of sodding everything going up.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,282
    edited December 2022
    I had a perfectly average meal for the family (two adults, two kids) at a steakhouse yesterday for $400.

    Having said that, it’s usually around $120 for a family meal. Which is still bloody expensive if you are used to the London prices of 2021.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,282
    dixiedean said:

    I don't get the gay marriage tactics. What is it supposed to achieve?
    Or do they actually believe an anti-LGBT strongman would sweep the Red Wall, but for the elite?

    Presumably working off the same “intel” as Medvedev.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,637
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    And yet all my left wing friends on Facebook complain all the time that only right wing policies get enacted.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,628
    dixiedean said:

    I don't get the gay marriage tactics. What is it supposed to achieve?
    Or do they actually believe an anti-LGBT strongman would sweep the Red Wall, but for the elite?

    Perhaps their agents in the UK are similar to those in Ukraine ? They tell uncle Vlad what he wants to hear.

    Given his obsession with homosexuality, it's fairly likely.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,809
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,200
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
  • I had a perfectly average meal for the family (two adults, two kids) at a steakhouse yesterday for $400.

    Having said that, it’s usually around $120 for a family meal. Which is still bloody expensive if you are used to the London prices of 2021.

    Last time I dined at a steakhouse in NYC was in 1972. At Max's Kansas City.

    No clue how much the meal cost, as I didn't pay for it. Have zero recollection of the meal, and dim recall of the decor.

    But vividly remember smelling pot for the first time, wafting in from a neighboring booth!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,381
    rcs1000 said:

    Lee10 said:

    darkage said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Slightly off topic but I was at Schipol airport recently, 5 euros for a Douwe egberts machine instant coffee. A 'flat white' apparently.
    Northern Europe is now very expensive for average income earners in the UK. By the way a beer in las vegas is now $10 and an average buffet at least $50. North America very expensive also. Cape Town is great value though.
    As an aside, yes a buffet at the Bellagio ($60) or the Wynn ($65) will set you back more than $50, they are hardly average for Las Vegas.
    To be fair, you can get enough calories to last a week.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,823
    rcs1000 said:


    As an aside, yes a buffet at the Bellagio ($60) or the Wynn ($65) will set you back more than $50, they are hardly average for Las Vegas.

    At last, a serious topic worth in depth discussion - far more than politics, AI or Cornish housing.

    I don't rate either Bellagio or the Wynn though at the latter the Terrace Pointe Cafe remains one of my favourite breakfast stops on the Strip.

    In terms of the buffets, Aria does a very nice buffet - we went there one Christmas Eve after I'd relieved Mr Wynn of $420 at the Encore Casino. The two buffets were $120 and were really good value.

    Planet Hollywood is also very good as is the Mirage but the top buffet on the Strip has to be Bacchanal at Caesar's Palace. I gather it's been overhauled of late but it still looks absolutely wonderful.

    To be fair, I've not been to a buffet Downtown so there are no doubt some gems - in terms of places to eat beyond the buffets, Peppermill for breakfast, Maggiano's for anything Italian and Yardbird if you want something southern and chicken related. For steak, you are spoilt for choice - you have to win seriously to head for Capital Grille or Vic & Anthony's. There are more value options Downtown. We went to Oscar's in the Plaza Hotel last time - very good.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:


    As an aside, yes a buffet at the Bellagio ($60) or the Wynn ($65) will set you back more than $50, they are hardly average for Las Vegas.

    At last, a serious topic worth in depth discussion - far more than politics, AI or Cornish housing.

    I don't rate either Bellagio or the Wynn though at the latter the Terrace Pointe Cafe remains one of my favourite breakfast stops on the Strip.

    In terms of the buffets, Aria does a very nice buffet - we went there one Christmas Eve after I'd relieved Mr Wynn of $420 at the Encore Casino. The two buffets were $120 and were really good value.

    Planet Hollywood is also very good as is the Mirage but the top buffet on the Strip has to be Bacchanal at Caesar's Palace. I gather it's been overhauled of late but it still looks absolutely wonderful.

    To be fair, I've not been to a buffet Downtown so there are no doubt some gems - in terms of places to eat beyond the buffets, Peppermill for breakfast, Maggiano's for anything Italian and Yardbird if you want something southern and chicken related. For steak, you are spoilt for choice - you have to win seriously to head for Capital Grille or Vic & Anthony's. There are more value options Downtown. We went to Oscar's in the Plaza Hotel last time - very good.
    Vegas is a tacky dump.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    Been to Vegas twice. Both times paid for with gambling winnings.

    Although really not my cup of tea, I had a friend who really wanted to go and I was curious…

    First time, mega budget, cheapest hotel on the strip. Ate/drank at the cheapest places. Had quite a good time.

    Second time, moderate budget. Stayed in a reasonable room in one of the more upmarket hotels. Ate at the posh restaurants every night.

    Found it miserable.

    I wish I’d never gone back, tbh.

    Once was enough.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,594
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Lee10 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Bothe right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    We now have pretty clear evidence the 1960 US election between Nixon and Kennedy was rigged and its also become admitted and increasingly clear that Kennedy was assasinated by the cia. Conspiracies are everywhere, ask the average guy in Egypt who was responsible for 911.
    Hey - Vova Putin is a short embezzler with flabby tits and a tiny cock.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
    The first one didn't actually happen because the people pushing got chased out of power shortly after proposing it. And given the default state of most countries in the world is to be independent and not forming a political union, that can be considered, at most, as centre-right.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,823
    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
  • stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    I haven't been, but would like to go at least once to experience it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,898
    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,356
    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,964
    ohnotnow said: "I remember hearing/reading a little piece about Frank Dobson when he was running for London mayor (bless). He was chatting to an elderly lady about his politics, views on South Africa - whatever. And after a while she interrupted him to say "That's nice dear, but what about my bins?".

    I sometimes think about that when I see people on either side of the world-of-woke arguing their case and claiming it'll make all the difference at an election."

    Reminds me of an observation I made about the US a few decades ago: Cities with foreign polices have dirty streets.

    (At the time almost all of the cities with foreign policies were governed by leftists. But Miami was not, having an anti-Castro foreign policy. Though I agreed with them on that, I was still more pleased than I should have been when I learned they were having problems delivering basic services.)

    However, I should add that "woke" issues can be big in the US, when they affect what is taught in the public schools, or when they appear to increase crime.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    Brexit, Rwanda,

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
    ...well not entirely.
  • dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    Assuming that public sector workers can't count is a key part of the government's pay strategy.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    Brexit, Rwanda,

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
    ...well not entirely.
    Not even a quarter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,356
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,594
    WillG said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
    The first one didn't actually happen because the people pushing got chased out of power shortly after proposing it. And given the default state of most countries in the world is to be independent and not forming a political union, that can be considered, at most, as centre-right.
    You don’t think that maybe, just maybe that Truss got it wrong?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Jonathan said:

    WillG said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
    The first one didn't actually happen because the people pushing got chased out of power shortly after proposing it. And given the default state of most countries in the world is to be independent and not forming a political union, that can be considered, at most, as centre-right.
    You don’t think that maybe, just maybe that Truss got it wrong?
    Of course she got it wrong and I was scathing at the time. But you hardly get to count it as something right wing happening when it didn't happen.
  • WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    Are we talking about Liverpool again?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,811
    WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    I was in vegas in 2019. Maybe my 5th visit. For the first time it felt quite evil

    Lots of tragic fat people wandering around looking hunted, bewildered and sad. It is the opposite of fun

    The surrounding deserts are magnificent
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    Are we talking about Liverpool again?
    Liverpool has heritage and culture.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,842
    edited December 2022
    WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    Blackpool?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    Blackpool?
    Places like Blackpool and Skegness are a good taste of Vegas. But imagine them 20 times bigger and with lots more mafia and prostitutes.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
    Brexit is the real mystery. They’re still unable to give a coherent explanation of what they were trying to achieve. All that’s offered is we had a vote and democracy has to be respected. But why?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,823
    WillG said:


    Tacky neon lights, exploitation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.
    It's awful.

    You can say that about a lot of cities to be honest and whether the profits go to organised crime syndicates (it used to in Vegas back in the days of the Mob), mega-corporations (the case in Vegas today) or Governments, the net effect is the same.

    If you went to Macau, apart from the bachelorette parties, it's much the same.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Median wages - as measured by job postings - are up around 5.2% at end October in the Eurozone.

    Which is below the UK, but not massively so.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,262

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    Brexit, Rwanda,

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
    ...well not entirely.
    But neither of those happened. And the NHS just added the population of a medium sized town to its payroll.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,944
    edited December 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Median wages - as measured by job postings - are up around 5.2% at end October in the Eurozone.

    Which is below the UK, but not massively so.
    Here's the chart from the FT by country:


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Median wages - as measured by job postings - are up around 5.2% at end October in the Eurozone.

    Which is below the UK, but not massively so.
    Actual wages are only up 3.1% though which is the like for like comparison with the UK and US measurement. Measuring by job postings implies all people are willing to move jobs to get a payrise, that's not always the case.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    Brexit, Rwanda,

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
    ...well not entirely.
    But neither of those happened. And the NHS just added the population of a medium sized town to its payroll.
    Brexit never happened? Great News! I can retire to the south of Spain after all?
  • I had a perfectly average meal for the family (two adults, two kids) at a steakhouse yesterday for $400.

    Having said that, it’s usually around $120 for a family meal. Which is still bloody expensive if you are used to the London prices of 2021.

    I had a reasonably good meal for 2 for £160 on Christmas Day at a 4 star hotel in West Wales, though you could have divided the price by 3 if it had been a normal Sunday Lunch. Service was rubbish though, no mince pies or coffee after, or sorbets, even had to pay extra for the introductory soft drink instead of the complimentary Prosecco as I was driving. We sat down at 12:45 and finished at 2. We even got home for Charlie's Speech. Not good overall.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,230
    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    CUCKOO CUCKOO
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    On prices if normal things rising - my wife and I went for a pre-Xmas meal at a nice-ish Tacqueria in London with two of our friends and between four people it came to £260, which felt fairly expensive for tacos. Even my wife had sticker shock on the bill and she's Swiss and very used to expensive restaurants.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,594
    WillG said:

    Jonathan said:

    WillG said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What would count as right wing? Perhaps raising borrowing to aggressively cut taxes and crashing the economy. Is that right wing? Or the nationalist bender that is Brexit, is that right wing?
    The first one didn't actually happen because the people pushing got chased out of power shortly after proposing it. And given the default state of most countries in the world is to be independent and not forming a political union, that can be considered, at most, as centre-right.
    You don’t think that maybe, just maybe that Truss got it wrong?
    Of course she got it wrong and I was scathing at the time. But you hardly get to count it as something right wing happening when it didn't happen.
    It happened. It failed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,262

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    Brexit, Rwanda,

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, I don't think it's too late for Sunak's Tories, but to be successful politically, he'll have to stab the political establishment in the front and put some pro-Britain policies in place, and fast. I mean radical support to increase domestic energy production (not just windmills everywhere) ensuring next winter doesn't look like this winter, sorting out NI, solving the migrant crisis, and perhaps toward the end some smart easing of taxes/tax simplification. There isn't time for anything else.

    Sunak is not going to ‘stab the political establishment’ , he is the political establishment.
    Who isn't in Parliament? Corbyn and the nutters, the SNP (at least as it applies to Westminster), and who else?
    The ERG, certainly not with Sunak PM now and Starmer Leader of the Opposition
    The radical anti-establishment fervour of Jacob Rees-Mogg. Give me a break.
    The anti abortion, anti gay marriage, tough on immigration social conservative JRM is certainly not part of the liberal establishment
    He’s part of the conservative establishment, no shortage of money, connections and power. A nepo baby.
    You may as well say Corbyn is part of the socialist establishment.

    Yet the UK is now run by a liberal establishment of economic and social liberals on the whole. Indeed there are now more left leaning figures in the judiciary, media, academia, parliament etc than traditional social conservatives
    Nah, that’s a lie that conservatives tell themselves to justify bad behaviour. There are conservative parts of the establishment and liberal parts of the establishment.

    If daddy edited the Times, you are part of the establishment.

    And yes Corbyn is definitely part of the club.
    No, it's not a lie, you just don't like being 'the baddies'. The 'liberal' (an abuse of the term) establishment is opposed to Brexit, openly dismissive of democratic oversight, anti-economic growth, authoritarian, dedicated to the growth of an engorged state at the expense of the productive sector, committed to a perverse version of greenery which usually means whatever is worse for the UK, whether or not it results in a net decrease in emissions, 'anti-racist' in a way that is often effectively racist in outcome (such as expecting lower educational attainment from black pupils), internationalist - as in committed to world Government, and needs flushing from every part of our public services.
    Baddies? Are you six years old? There’s little more pitiful than conservatives (or indeed liberals etc) cultivating victim status and trying to put things back to a natural order.
    It's a reference to a Mitchell and Webb sketch. The fact remains that big state 'liberalism' is about as anti-establishment as the police federation ball, and the rebellion is on the right.
    Nah. It’s a myth. It’s easier for some people to believe in conspiracies and shadowy establishments than engage with politics sufficiently to convince other people and win an argument .

    Both the right and the left have their establishments and power bases.
    Really? It doesn't look like it from here. Because if that were true, you'd occasionally get right wing things happening. And in the last 15 years, I caj count the number of right wing things that have actually happened - rather than simply been waved around as pantomime villains - on the fingers of one hand.
    What rubbish.
    Well twelve years of Tory rule and the NHS is still not privatised.
    ...well not entirely.
    But neither of those happened. And the NHS just added the population of a medium sized town to its payroll.
    Brexit never happened? Great News! I can retire to the south of Spain after all?
    Go wild.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,356
    edited December 2022
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
  • stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    I haven't been, but would like to go at least once to experience it.
    If you've ever been to Glasgow then it is just like Las Vegas.

    Glasgow and Las Vegas are the only places in the world you can pay for sex with chips.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,416
    Top 3 countries where most people would like to live

    1 Canada
    2 New Zealand
    3 Switzerland.

    The UK is 14th

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1607796042602258433?s=20&t=UNpiWVDeg-CzPKIfHKFr3g
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,590
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
    And the pay sucks because the state is paying final salary retirements for millions of people so there's no money left. Taxes are already growth destroyingly high which means you need to find cuts elsewhere for higher salaries. Once again, I'm happy to take a very big axe to the state, are you?
  • dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
    2 things,

    teachers pension was 40 years max for 1/2 a final salary, and we paid for that, it wasn't free.

    Most teachers don't reach 40 years. I retired at 32 years, which works out at 0.4

    I have now returned to a school in a Non-Teaching role so am not inactive.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,506
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    Been once. Had a good time. In no rush to go back, but I can think of worse places to be.
    Tacky neon lights, explotation of addiction, trashy bachelorette parties, profits flowing to organized crime syndicates and a heavy volume of street walkers.

    It's awful.
    I was in vegas in 2019. Maybe my 5th visit. For the first time it felt quite evil

    Lots of tragic fat people wandering around looking hunted, bewildered and sad. It is the opposite of fun

    The surrounding deserts are magnificent
    I had a nice time there 10 years or so ago, simply playing lots of poker with people who seemed to be enjoying themselves too - the rakes are higher than online, but you're paying for the atmosphere. If that's your scene, there's unlimited amounts of it - no idea about prostitutes or mafia, but unless you're looking for either it doesn't matter much. Obviously silly to go there for beauty and high culture.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,823
    MaxPB said:


    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?

    There are staff shortages throughout the economy - in all sectors - because about half a million have left the workforce and these are mostly older people at all levels though I suspect it's more likely professional people or middle/senior management.

    The small insight I have in this are some from the public sector are moving over to comparable and better paid jobs in the private sector because they need more money now, not in 20 years. Their often specialised and professional jobs are not easy to fill as the public sector can't offer what the private sector can.

    The pension was and has always been understood to me the main method of recruitment and retention in the public sector. If you work hard for 35-40 years and have paid in to your pension (along with your employer), why shouldn't you be entitled to the benefits? There may be some questions asked about the benefits accrued to some very senior public sector figures such as Council CEOs but most lower-level workers have worked hard and whether their loyalty is down to the pension or to their sense of public duty, they should be entitled to that to which they are entitled.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,506
    MaxPB said:

    On prices if normal things rising - my wife and I went for a pre-Xmas meal at a nice-ish Tacqueria in London with two of our friends and between four people it came to £260, which felt fairly expensive for tacos. Even my wife had sticker shock on the bill and she's Swiss and very used to expensive restaurants.

    Have you tried the St Moritz restaurant? Authentically Swiss (both German and French Swiss cuisines) and cheaper than that! https://stmoritz-restaurant.co.uk/
  • Leon said:

    As evidence I’m not hallucinating, here is a new development near St Austell (one of the poorer towns in Cornwall). It’s called Duporth

    It’s…. Nice. It acknowledges that it’s in Cornwall. It might actually age well. They’ve incorporated old stuff. Yay Cornwall


    A little research shows that house prices in Duporth are nearly twice those in St Austell.
    Those aren't run of the mill develoments, they're upmarket houses, probably targeted at rich people for.holiday homes (Duporth was previously a holiday village)

    Lovely they are. Typical they are not.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,687

    stodge said:

    As is so often the case, I find myself in the minority here it would seem.

    I love Las Vegas - it's one of the most relaxing places I've ever encountered. Doesn't matter if you do or don't gamble - it's all about doing more or less what you want more or less when you want it.

    Granted, the exchange rate makes a difference - first time we went, it was $2.05 so we could enjoy it. Last time it was $1.40 so not quite so good and we've not been since 2015 so a lot has changed but we did catch the High Roller on our last visit.

    Turn up at a restaurant at 3am and be offered BOTH the breakfast and dinner menus - that's the best of it.

    I haven't been, but would like to go at least once to experience it.
    If you've ever been to Glasgow then it is just like Las Vegas.

    Glasgow and Las Vegas are the only places in the world you can pay for sex with chips.
    Clearly you've never been to Mansfield.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    As evidence I’m not hallucinating, here is a new development near St Austell (one of the poorer towns in Cornwall). It’s called Duporth

    It’s…. Nice. It acknowledges that it’s in Cornwall. It might actually age well. They’ve incorporated old stuff. Yay Cornwall


    A little research shows that house prices in Duporth are nearly twice those in St Austell.
    Those aren't run of the mill develoments, they're upmarket houses, probably targeted at rich people for.holiday homes (Duporth was previously a holiday village)

    Lovely they are. Typical they are not.
    I don't know why it's so hard for architects to design houses people actually want to live in. Modern architects seem to range from ok to downright awful. While actual opinion polls show 70%+ of the public want nice little cottage looking things.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    edited December 2022
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
    And the pay sucks because the state is paying final salary retirements for millions of people so there's no money left. Taxes are already growth destroyingly high which means you need to find cuts elsewhere for higher salaries. Once again, I'm happy to take a very big axe to the state, are you?
    That horse to an extent has already bolted.

    My late parents, both senior teachers were on stunning final salary pensions, both drawn at 60. My wife (a college head of department) has this year started to draw hers at 60. It is not a patch on my parents ' pension and those following on from her have had the terms and conditions eroded further. I suppose the only thing to be said for it is, it is substantially better than my private pension, which has been significantly under funded due to a fairly modest lifestyle, children and a big house. So I work on 'til I drop. Now tell me about you and your high roller friends and the lifestyles you will all lead from your private sector pensions and investments when the clock strikes circa 60 years old.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,356
    edited December 2022
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
    And the pay sucks because the state is paying final salary retirements for millions of people so there's no money left. Taxes are already growth destroyingly high which means you need to find cuts elsewhere for higher salaries. Once again, I'm happy to take a very big axe to the state, are you?
    Where would your axe fall?
    Apart from robbing folk of their fairly and legally earned pensions?
    Presumably hospitals need staff, kids need teachers? Passports need issuing.
    There still is, apparently, enough money for some to pay utterly farcical sums for tacos.
  • WillG said:

    Leon said:

    As evidence I’m not hallucinating, here is a new development near St Austell (one of the poorer towns in Cornwall). It’s called Duporth

    It’s…. Nice. It acknowledges that it’s in Cornwall. It might actually age well. They’ve incorporated old stuff. Yay Cornwall


    A little research shows that house prices in Duporth are nearly twice those in St Austell.
    Those aren't run of the mill develoments, they're upmarket houses, probably targeted at rich people for.holiday homes (Duporth was previously a holiday village)

    Lovely they are. Typical they are not.
    I don't know why it's so hard for architects to design houses people actually want to live in. Modern architects seem to range from ok to downright awful. While actual opinion polls show 70%+ of the public want nice little cottage looking things.
    Wrong incentive structure. Commoditisation of design leads to higher margins. Far easier just to replicate your bog standard models.

    Same with corporate architecture. Boring. Glass, glass and more glass.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,644
    Lee10 said:

    Lee10 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Independent journalist says we should stop asking people how their Christmas was

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1607711499220570113?t=ls4sccdd4IKDuuTUKySWkg&s=19

    Christmas was too overrated and commercialised now. Starts at halloween with a ridiculously long run up then by xmas day afternoon ads are all for the boxing day sales. Sadly our society has lost the true meaning of Christmas due to corporate capitalism using it for its own purposes and dragging many good people into debt. A simpler festival such as they have in other countries would be preferable.
    Moscow?
    Dont know if anyone has seen that christmas ad in Russia where Putin comes dressed as Santa to rescue the young from the terror of lgbt and trans. Russians truly believe they are fighting satanism in the west something to bear in mind.
    It’s NATO Trans Woke Illegal Immigrant Satanist Alien AIs that he should be worrying about.

    Since he has such tiny, tiny…. Weapons.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    edited December 2022
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Not sure how accepting the terms and conditions offered at the time is rinsing anyone?
    The pay is far below the market rate. Simple as. It's about understaffing making the job nigh on impossible for those that remain, and they are leaving in droves. Not for early retirement, but for Nando's and Aldi.
    It's understaffed because the pay sucks.
    And the pay sucks because the state is paying final salary retirements for millions of people so there's no money left. Taxes are already growth destroyingly high which means you need to find cuts elsewhere for higher salaries. Once again, I'm happy to take a very big axe to the state, are you?
    Where would your axe fall?
    Apart from robbing folk of their fairly and legally earned pensions?
    Presumably hospitals need staff, kids need teachers? Passports need issuing.
    There still is, apparently, enough money for some to pay utterly farcical sums for tacos.
    Well the axe won't fall as such. Smoke and mirrors will work out just fine. Farm the work out to the private sector. Cut the cost, cut the quality of service, cut the wages, lay off the salaried staff and bring them back on zero hours, but ensure there's enough in the pot for senior managers to lead the lifestyles they richly deserve and a spot extra for corporate donations to the Conservative Party.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,202
    edited December 2022
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees
    better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Gosh, despite an excellent first name you do sometimes pontificate on things without really knowing what you’re talking about, don’t you.

    Worth reading this:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7222/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    maxh said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees
    better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Gosh, despite an excellent first name you do sometimes pontificate on things without really knowing what you’re talking about, don’t you.

    Worth reading this:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7222/
    The other thing worth considering is what Max defines as a solid gold state pension yields in a year what he probably earns in under a fortnight. And good luck to him. But he shouldn't then bellyache about how hard done by he is compared to state-employee pensioners who have worked their nuts off for forty years and are pissed off at being told "you know that solid gold pensioner lifestyle you were sold when we recruited you, you can go whistle for that".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,644

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    As evidence I’m not hallucinating, here is a new development near St Austell (one of the poorer towns in Cornwall). It’s called Duporth

    It’s…. Nice. It acknowledges that it’s in Cornwall. It might actually age well. They’ve incorporated old stuff. Yay Cornwall


    A little research shows that house prices in Duporth are nearly twice those in St Austell.
    Those aren't run of the mill develoments, they're upmarket houses, probably targeted at rich people for.holiday homes (Duporth was previously a holiday village)

    Lovely they are. Typical they are not.
    I don't know why it's so hard for architects to design houses people actually want to live in. Modern architects seem to range from ok to downright awful. While actual opinion polls show 70%+ of the public want nice little cottage looking things.
    Wrong incentive structure. Commoditisation of design leads to higher margins. Far easier just to replicate your bog standard models.

    Same with corporate architecture. Boring. Glass, glass and more glass.
    Terraced housing was the ultimate in “Gimme 3 miles of that”, for the Edwardian’s and Victorians.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of standardisation - it’s what you standardise on that’s the issue.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,202

    MaxPB said:

    On prices if normal things rising - my wife and I went for a pre-Xmas meal at a nice-ish Tacqueria in London with two of our friends and between four people it came to £260, which felt fairly expensive for tacos. Even my wife had sticker shock on the bill and she's Swiss and very used to expensive restaurants.

    Have you tried the St Moritz restaurant? Authentically Swiss (both German and French Swiss cuisines) and cheaper than that! https://stmoritz-restaurant.co.uk/
    I once went to a rave in the basement of that place. It was run by a very eccentric techno DJ called James Holden and was called the Fondue Fun-do. It was a rave…with free all-you-can-eat fondue. As I say, eccentric.

  • WillG said:

    Leon said:

    As evidence I’m not hallucinating, here is a new development near St Austell (one of the poorer towns in Cornwall). It’s called Duporth

    It’s…. Nice. It acknowledges that it’s in Cornwall. It might actually age well. They’ve incorporated old stuff. Yay Cornwall


    A little research shows that house prices in Duporth are nearly twice those in St Austell.
    Those aren't run of the mill develoments, they're upmarket houses, probably targeted at rich people for.holiday homes (Duporth was previously a holiday village)

    Lovely they are. Typical they are not.
    I don't know why it's so hard for architects to design houses people actually want to live in. Modern architects seem to range from ok to downright awful. While actual opinion polls show 70%+ of the public want nice little cottage looking things.
    Wrong incentive structure. Commoditisation of design leads to higher margins. Far easier just to replicate your bog standard models.

    Same with corporate architecture. Boring. Glass, glass and more glass.
    Terraced housing was the ultimate in “Gimme 3 miles of that”, for the Edwardian’s and Victorians.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of standardisation - it’s what you standardise on that’s the issue.
    Though even terraces with good bones probably take a decade or two to develop enough variation within the framework to be truly pleasing.

    But yes- for quite a while we've been incapable of building even that.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:



    You mean you don’t have a long lost little brother?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,644

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Would anyone like to bet on

    - whether @Lee10's IP address shows up in a list of compromised IPs and
    - whether he has a gmx email address

    Normally I wouldn't dox someone, but when they make their email address this, I'm afraid I don't feel guilty:



    You mean you don’t have a long lost little brother?
    1/10th scale, apparently….
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    edited December 2022
    The master of understatement.

    "Talking of LAB Curtice writes:

    Since September‘s “fiscal event” the party has regularly been enjoying poll leads of 10 points or more
    "

    Well, only if you use 'regularly' to mean continuously. Every poll since Kwarteng's budget debacle has shown Labour leads of +10. The lowest lead since then appears to have been 11%, the highest lead was 39%.

    Wiki lists 357 polls taken this year; the top 56 Labour leads have all come since that 'fiscal event'.

    The 57th highest lead (24%) was back in April.
  • maxh said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/12/central-bank-chief-urges-firms-to-put-up-salaries-5-7/

    "Dutch central bank president Klaas Knot has called on companies to increase wages, saying their profits are enough to merit a decent pay rise. A pay rise of between 5% and 7%, coupled with the government’s price ceiling on energy, would be enough to head off the impact of rising prices, Knot told television programme Nieuwsuur on Thursday evening.

    ‘We have done the calculations and we don’t want wages to decline further. If you want to keep wages at the same level, then you need a pay rise of between 5% and 7%. It is an average at a macro-economic level,’ he said."

    Yes, because EU wage rises are 2.5-3.5% vs inflation at 11.1%, that compares to the UK with wage rises of 6.5% against inflation of 10.7% and the US with 5.9% wage rises against 7.5% inflation. EU workers are fucked, the biggest ever real terms wage contraction ever and a much higher bar for crossover into real terms wage rises than the US or UK where wages are on the up and inflation seems to have peaked.
    Do public sector workers not count?
    National average, so it includes them.
    6.1%.
    2.7 % for the public sector.
    No wonder there are no staff.
    There are no staff because loads of public sector workers all took early retirement and are now inactive. Those lavish final salary pensions were always going to catch up eventually. People with 40 year contributions are retiring at 2/3rds of their high final salary because they've got no mortgage to pay and their kids have left home so there's no major expenses.

    So while you all moan at the bottom it's your now ex colleagues who rinsed the state and are continuing to do so that are the reason there's no money left to give you lot pay rises that make sense. I'm all for axing all final salary pensions and not just for new entrants and giving public sector employees
    better pay tomorrow morning using the billions in savings. Are you?
    Gosh, despite an excellent first name you do sometimes pontificate on things without really knowing what you’re talking about, don’t you.

    Worth reading this:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7222/
    The other thing worth considering is what Max defines as a solid gold state pension yields in a year what he probably earns in under a fortnight. And good luck to him. But he shouldn't then bellyache about how hard done by he is compared to state-employee pensioners who have worked their nuts off for forty years and are pissed off at being told "you know that solid gold pensioner lifestyle you were sold when we recruited you, you can go whistle for that".
    It's true that the UK would have been in a better place had the voters of previous decades put more aside to cover the pension liabilities they were building up. Same as it would have been better not to build quite so many shoddy roads, schools, hospitals etc. Or build a few more houses each year. With hindsight, putting so many eggs in the basket labelled "globetrotting international finance that will run away if you mention tax rises" might not have been a masterstroke either.

    But they/we didn't. They/we voted for tax cuts and a lot of that money went into house price inflation. Hey ho.

    There isn't going to be a pleasant way out of this, sure. But pretending the answer lies in breaking promises or trying to stiff workers in the public sector isn't on.

    Pay up or do without.
This discussion has been closed.