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Labour has been edging back in Scotland – politicalbetting.com

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  • Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    10/10 for chutzpah.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Unionism in Scotland has a distinctly Scottish history and set of characteristics.

    That’s all I’m saying.

    Trying to retro-fit today’s “SNP” v “The Tories” back into the 19th century is not accurate.
    Not to mention a distinctly Irish history in the first place. Whiuch makes it rather un-distinctly Scottish.
    No it doesn’t.
    These people were Scots.
    Absurd to pretend otherwise.
    Have a look at the history books. Rather a lot of them WERE Irish, for all that they had addresses in Glasgow etc.
    Well you may be right, but so far as I can tell the prominent Unionists were Scottish born and raised. But I only have access to internet sources.

    It strikes me suddenly that I’ve no idea how my Scottish forebears - the Reas, the Mairs and the rather hard to find Heitons - sat in relation to the (to me) complication and fractious political and religious divides within Scotland.
  • Carnyx said:

    Tres said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Charles I was about as Scottish as Tony Blair I suppose.
    Mr Blair is 50% Danish?
    No. But neither was Charles I, seeing as how his mommy, Anne of Denmark, was LESS than full-blooded Dane (genealogically anyway):

    "Anne was born on 12 December 1574 at the castle of Skanderborg on the Jutland Peninsula in the Kingdom of Denmark to Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow and King Frederick II of Denmark."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_of_Denmark#Ancestry
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Brettons originally, then English. Anglo-Normans according to Wikipedia, like a good chunk of major Scottish landowners I would guess. I suppose they were Scottish by dint of owning the place. I wonder if any of them had a Scottish accent?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    ydoethur said:

    Looks like more serious civil unrest in Paris:

    https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1606637135469350913

    Any particular reason for it?
    Yes, A right-wing racist who shot dead three Kurds yesterday. Having attacked a migrant camp with a sword last year.

    It might be uncharitable of me, but I remember a time when PB's crime correspondents breathlessly followed the news about such attacks. I wonder what was different this time? (/sarcasm)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64086680
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ydoethur said:

    Looks like more serious civil unrest in Paris:

    https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1606637135469350913

    Any particular reason for it?
    Yes, A right-wing racist who shot dead three Kurds yesterday. Having attacked a migrant camp with a sword last year.

    It might be uncharitable of me, but I remember a time when PB's crime correspondents breathlessly followed the news about such attacks. I wonder what was different this time? (/sarcasm)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64086680
    To be charitable, it’s Christmas, it was in France and the U.K. media have not really covered it and it’s Christmas.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Brettons originally, then English. Anglo-Normans according to Wikipedia, like a good chunk of major Scottish landowners I would guess. I suppose they were Scottish by dint of owning the place. I wonder if any of them had a Scottish accent?
    Fascinating to note how often the No True Scotsman fallacy comes up in connection with actual Scotsmen.
  • checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Brettons originally, then English. Anglo-Normans according to Wikipedia, like a good chunk of major Scottish landowners I would guess. I suppose they were Scottish by dint of owning the place. I wonder if any of them had a Scottish accent?
    Fascinating to note how often the No True Scotsman fallacy comes up in connection with actual Scotsmen.
    What is the No True Scotsman fallacy?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    10/10 for chutzpah.
    1/10 for counterfactual historical writing. It's easy to assume everything would be awful if the other side won or events turned out different. There's a reference to the possibility of more positive developments - we'd be less likely to have an MP murdered in the street I imagine.

    It tests the partisan in all of us to imagine the world run not as we like it but run as we wouldn't. Dystopias are easy to create, imagining a utopia where your ideas and preferences aren't in charge is very difficult.
  • checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Brettons originally, then English. Anglo-Normans according to Wikipedia, like a good chunk of major Scottish landowners I would guess. I suppose they were Scottish by dint of owning the place. I wonder if any of them had a Scottish accent?
    Fascinating to note how often the No True Scotsman fallacy comes up in connection with actual Scotsmen.
    What is the No True Scotsman fallacy?
    "No True Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly.[1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric.[4] This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", etc.[2][5]

    Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt.[1] The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:[6]

    Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
    Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
    Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Your namesakes the Stuarts were Scottish, were they not?
    Brettons originally, then English. Anglo-Normans according to Wikipedia, like a good chunk of major Scottish landowners I would guess. I suppose they were Scottish by dint of owning the place. I wonder if any of them had a Scottish accent?
    Fascinating to note how often the No True Scotsman fallacy comes up in connection with actual Scotsmen.
    What is the No True Scotsman fallacy?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    Also seen in relation to other areas:

    "No fan of Dotty United would be a hooligan"
    (A fan of Dotty United gets jailed for hooliganism)
    "No true fan of Dotty United would be a hooligan..."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    ydoethur said:

    Looks like more serious civil unrest in Paris:

    https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1606637135469350913

    Any particular reason for it?
    Yes, A right-wing racist who shot dead three Kurds yesterday. Having attacked a migrant camp with a sword last year.

    It might be uncharitable of me, but I remember a time when PB's crime correspondents breathlessly followed the news about such attacks. I wonder what was different this time? (/sarcasm)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64086680
    To be charitable, it’s Christmas, it was in France and the U.K. media have not really covered it and it’s Christmas.
    Remember the tragic pre-Christmas Glasgow bin lorry crash eight or so years ago? From memory PB was on fire with how that was a terrorist attack...

    And I think it was headlines on BBC News online yesterdat, so it has been covered.
  • stodge said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    10/10 for chutzpah.
    1/10 for counterfactual historical writing. It's easy to assume everything would be awful if the other side won or events turned out different. There's a reference to the possibility of more positive developments - we'd be less likely to have an MP murdered in the street I imagine.

    It tests the partisan in all of us to imagine the world run not as we like it but run as we wouldn't. Dystopias are easy to create, imagining a utopia where your ideas and preferences aren't in charge is very difficult.
    I don't have to imagine the world run not as I like it!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ydoethur said:

    Looks like more serious civil unrest in Paris:

    https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1606637135469350913

    Any particular reason for it?
    Yes, A right-wing racist who shot dead three Kurds yesterday. Having attacked a migrant camp with a sword last year.

    It might be uncharitable of me, but I remember a time when PB's crime correspondents breathlessly followed the news about such attacks. I wonder what was different this time? (/sarcasm)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64086680
    To be charitable, it’s Christmas, it was in France and the U.K. media have not really covered it and it’s Christmas.
    Remember the tragic pre-Christmas Glasgow bin lorry crash eight or so years ago? From memory PB was on fire with how that was a terrorist attack...

    And I think it was headlines on BBC News online yesterdat, so it has been covered.
    I do. I also think the driver got off a bit lightly with not declaring his medical conditions.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    stodge said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    10/10 for chutzpah.
    1/10 for counterfactual historical writing. It's easy to assume everything would be awful if the other side won or events turned out different. There's a reference to the possibility of more positive developments - we'd be less likely to have an MP murdered in the street I imagine.

    It tests the partisan in all of us to imagine the world run not as we like it but run as we wouldn't. Dystopias are easy to create, imagining a utopia where your ideas and preferences aren't in charge is very difficult.
    I don't have to imagine the world run not as I like it!
    I understand but the truth is if the world were to be run as you or I liked it it wouldn't be a utopia - just a different kind of dystopia.

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, I'm told, and I suspect even the best-intentioned Government would end up creating problems or rather its solutions would have unintended consequences.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    10/10 for chutzpah.
    1/10 for counterfactual historical writing. It's easy to assume everything would be awful if the other side won or events turned out different. There's a reference to the possibility of more positive developments - we'd be less likely to have an MP murdered in the street I imagine.

    It tests the partisan in all of us to imagine the world run not as we like it but run as we wouldn't. Dystopias are easy to create, imagining a utopia where your ideas and preferences aren't in charge is very difficult.
    I don't have to imagine the world run not as I like it!
    I understand but the truth is if the world were to be run as you or I liked it it wouldn't be a utopia - just a different kind of dystopia.

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, I'm told, and I suspect even the best-intentioned Government would end up creating problems or rather its solutions would have unintended consequences.
    Though I've never seen that explicitly mentioned in a party manifesto, oddly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    "no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither"

    Not so. Threat of blockade and invasion, and briberyt of the powerbrokers.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    Penny also includes the following claim, which I think is often tenuous but is denying reality since the Tories came to power in 2019:

    The point I am making is that every time the Conservatives have come to power our nation is improved.
    You can probably say the same for Labour (thinks... 1997 tick, 1974 tick, 1964 tick, 1945 tick).

    Conclusion: Whenever the UK government changes, things improve.

    Theory: Voters vote for a new government when they are unhappy with the incumbents.
    It's a compelling read.

    I didn't remember how bad things were under Labour and of course how well things are ticking along nicely now.

    A Prime Minister (Milliband) only being in power for six weeks is something of a far-fetched imagination stretch isn't it?

    I am not entirely sure it isn't a parody piece She has a sense of humour, our Pen.
  • More comic relief from MAGA Maniacs -

    The Hill - Mike Lindell questions DeSantis 2022 election win: ‘I don’t believe it’

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786368-mike-lindell-questions-desantis-2022-election-win-i-dont-believe-it/

    Pillow-monger & Putinist Mike Lindell jumps head-first down yet another rat-hole for the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo.
  • EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Geoff Norcott
    The tyranny of card-only payments
    Why has it become impossible to pay with cash?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tyranny-of-card-only-payments/

    Why have right wingers forgotten how market forces work and freedom for businesses to choose how they operate?

    It is happening because businesses make more profit that way.

    There is a case to regulate and slow down the pace of change but it is another technology that is not going away and eventually (in schoolkids lifetimes if not well before) we will end up a cashless society. I don't think that is a good thing but it is pretty inevitable and down to market forces. Something right wingers used to understand.
    One result of this will be the return of barter on a much wider scale - something that cash was introduced to rationalise. Indeed this is already happening and funnily enough amongst that younger generation you refer to and of course amongst the poorer parts of society where getting a credit card or even a debit card can be nearly impossible for some. There are almost 6 million people in the UK currently who don't have a credit rating or whose credit history is too slight to allow them to operate in a digital world. These are not people with debt or a bad credit score. They just don't have one at all.
    In fact it is a myth that cash was introduced to replace barter - there's no evidence of barter's being the primary means of exchange in societies with recorded history, outside wartime and such. Perhaps because as soon as you have a historical record, you can extend credit to people.
    1. I said to regulate not to replace.
    2. It is true there is now a widely accepted archaeological theory that the introduction of cash in pre-Invasion Iron age communities across Europe was not for the use it had assumed in the Roman Empire but was instead copying the idea of coinage but without its actually use in trade. This is based on the fact that coinage in pre-Roman IA sites is almost exclusively found in hoards associated with religious and tribal sites rather than as individual coins in association with habitation.

    But the earliest coinage in the world didn't appear until about 9000 years after the establishment of trade by barter. Clearly someone saw the benefit of regulated trade and the use of coinage, once it had been invented, quickly became widespread for that reason (amongst others).

    I don't know what you mean by "the establishment of trade by barter". The earliest evidence in Mesopotamia and Egypt points to trade conducted using (a) bullion (b) primitive credit arrangements involving future transactions (c) commodities like grain. At most (c) was barter, but if the grain was for future exchange rather than own use, it's more like a very inefficient currency.
    You are conflating trade between governments/Kingdoms/states with everyday exchange of goods between people. The Hittites, Egyptians, Sumerians and all other ancient states took taxes in bartered goods - normally grain or other produce such as wood. The tens of thousands of clay tablets we have from these various states make that clear. As do the references in more day to day transactions which show trade being conducted primarily by barter. Practically no one had access to bullion or to credit arrangements unless they were part of the state.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    More comic relief from MAGA Maniacs -

    The Hill - Mike Lindell questions DeSantis 2022 election win: ‘I don’t believe it’

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786368-mike-lindell-questions-desantis-2022-election-win-i-dont-believe-it/

    Pillow-monger & Putinist Mike Lindell jumps head-first down yet another rat-hole for the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo.

    What does he even get out of his efforts? At least Trump rakes in donations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Andy_JS said:

    "Geoff Norcott
    The tyranny of card-only payments
    Why has it become impossible to pay with cash?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tyranny-of-card-only-payments/

    Why have right wingers forgotten how market forces work and freedom for businesses to choose how they operate?

    It is happening because businesses make more profit that way.

    There is a case to regulate and slow down the pace of change but it is another technology that is not going away and eventually (in schoolkids lifetimes if not well before) we will end up a cashless society. I don't think that is a good thing but it is pretty inevitable and down to market forces. Something right wingers used to understand.
    One result of this will be the return of barter on a much wider scale - something that cash was introduced to rationalise. Indeed this is already happening and funnily enough amongst that younger generation you refer to and of course amongst the poorer parts of society where getting a credit card or even a debit card can be nearly impossible for some. There are almost 6 million people in the UK currently who don't have a credit rating or whose credit history is too slight to allow them to operate in a digital world. These are not people with debt or a bad credit score. They just don't have one at all.
    You don’t need a credit rating to get a bank account and a debit card. The alt-banks try to offer next to zero barriers to sign up - they bought in userid/password account creation…

    What are the barriers that these people face?
    There is an element of 'let them eat cake' about that comment.

    According to the Government 2 million households in the UK have no access to the internet either fixed line or mobile.
    Not a “let them eat cake” comment.

    The problem isn’t credit ratings. The question is to establish the reasons why people can’t get a bank account.

    Unlike in the US, where the banking system is rather 19th cent, and banks *are* actually turning people away they can’t lend money to.

    There is a funny story from the US on that - about how incomprehension and politics collided….
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    franklyn said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    Another foreign arsehole pretending to be a Scotch expert whilst blowing hot air from his butt. Knowledge of Scotland ZERO.
    It's not Christmas without the usual moaning from malcolmg. He might wish to reflect on the origins of the SNP, formed in 1934 and modelled on Hitler's German nationalists. It has always been a racist anti-English party.
    Another thick lying twat. They were nothing of the sort you liar. @franklyn
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Unionism in Scotland has a distinctly Scottish history and set of characteristics.

    That’s all I’m saying.

    Trying to retro-fit today’s “SNP” v “The Tories” back into the 19th century is not accurate.
    Not to mention a distinctly Irish history in the first place. Whiuch makes it rather un-distinctly Scottish.
    No it doesn’t.
    These people were Scots.
    Absurd to pretend otherwise.
    Have a look at the history books. Rather a lot of them WERE Irish, for all that they had addresses in Glasgow etc.
    Better talking to a brick wall, the numpty is talking turds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    Unionism in Scotland has a distinctly Scottish history and set of characteristics.

    That’s all I’m saying.

    Trying to retro-fit today’s “SNP” v “The Tories” back into the 19th century is not accurate.
    Not to mention a distinctly Irish history in the first place. Whiuch makes it rather un-distinctly Scottish.
    No it doesn’t.
    These people were Scots.
    Absurd to pretend otherwise.
    Have a look at the history books. Rather a lot of them WERE Irish, for all that they had addresses in Glasgow etc.
    Well you may be right, but so far as I can tell the prominent Unionists were Scottish born and raised. But I only have access to internet sources.

    It strikes me suddenly that I’ve no idea how my Scottish forebears - the Reas, the Mairs and the rather hard to find Heitons - sat in relation to the (to me) complication and fractious political and religious divides within Scotland.
    Unionism was in part imported to Scotland from NI, certainly in terms of the roots of the Unionist Party. Partly in reaction to RC and Irish immigration and partly exploiting and whipping up nativist sentiment and sectarianism.

    But anyway, it's Christmastide now and I must go and tidy.

    Re forebears - checking their ecclesiastical affiliations would be a very good start, then interpreting that as to time and place and seeing if they pop up in newspapers etc.

    But don't fall into the common trap for researchers from south of the border in assuming that if a birth isn't recorded in the established Kirk's parish church it didn';t happen, ditto marriage etc . Many Scots boycotted the Established Kirk for reasons of conscience, and marriage didn't have to be in the parish church either to be valid (which is why English landowners got so utterly neurotic about Gretna and Lamberton marriages of their heiresses and heirs). You need to look very carefully at the available registers of the various secession and free kirks, and the RCs too of course. I've seen a case where a published biographer placed the birth at one end of Scotland on the assumption that the person was the only hit of the right name and age in the parish records online. But the parents were wrong, and the place was wrong. I found the person in the right place, at the other end, simply by looking at one of the Secession Church registers, exactly right place, right time, right parents. And that was *very* interesting because that tied in with much else.

    For those reasons it's much easier to trace families after the introduction of compulsory state recording of bmd, markedly more so.

    Anyway, happy Christmas!
  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Shoulda had those working class friends at oxford.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    Another empty head appears , take your union jack underpants out of the crack of your arse.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Looks like more serious civil unrest in Paris:

    https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1606637135469350913

    Any particular reason for it?
    Immigrants practicing their French protesting, ready for their citizenship exams

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/June_Rebellion.jpg
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    "no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither"

    Not so. Threat of blockade and invasion, and briberyt of the powerbrokers.
    Carnyx , it is a waste of time talking to these brain dead curs. Empty chanties.
  • Carnyx said:

    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    "no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither"

    Not so. Threat of blockade and invasion, and briberyt of the powerbrokers.
    Mere bargaining positions.

    I am pretty certain all the bribe takers were Scotsmen, though perhaps not true Scotsmen.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    So today’s widely anticipated traffic chaos with a predicated 17 million drivers on the road this lunchtime, came to nothing. A3, M25, all clear.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360

    Andy_JS said:

    "Geoff Norcott
    The tyranny of card-only payments
    Why has it become impossible to pay with cash?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tyranny-of-card-only-payments/

    Why have right wingers forgotten how market forces work and freedom for businesses to choose how they operate?

    It is happening because businesses make more profit that way.

    There is a case to regulate and slow down the pace of change but it is another technology that is not going away and eventually (in schoolkids lifetimes if not well before) we will end up a cashless society. I don't think that is a good thing but it is pretty inevitable and down to market forces. Something right wingers used to understand.
    One result of this will be the return of barter on a much wider scale - something that cash was introduced to rationalise. Indeed this is already happening and funnily enough amongst that younger generation you refer to and of course amongst the poorer parts of society where getting a credit card or even a debit card can be nearly impossible for some. There are almost 6 million people in the UK currently who don't have a credit rating or whose credit history is too slight to allow them to operate in a digital world. These are not people with debt or a bad credit score. They just don't have one at all.
    You don’t need a credit rating to get a bank account and a debit card. The alt-banks try to offer next to zero barriers to sign up - they bought in userid/password account creation…

    What are the barriers that these people face?
    There is an element of 'let them eat cake' about that comment.

    According to the Government 2 million households in the UK have no access to the internet either fixed line or mobile.
    Not a “let them eat cake” comment.

    The problem isn’t credit ratings. The question is to establish the reasons why people can’t get a bank account.

    Unlike in the US, where the banking system is rather 19th cent, and banks *are* actually
    turning people away they can’t lend money to.

    There is a funny story from the US on that - about
    how incomprehension and politics collided….
    There are people who are illiterate; or who come from cultures where banks are viewed with distrust and cash is king; or who simply can’t get their heads around banking, but who do understand cash.

    Of course, it’s no problem for the large majority of us if a place won’t take cash. But, it’s a problem for a small minority.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    "no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither"

    Not so. Threat of blockade and invasion, and briberyt of the powerbrokers.
    Carnyx , it is a waste of time talking to these brain dead curs. Empty chanties.
    I thought they were full chanties, Malc. Full of piss, as expected.
  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    This is not a big thing - anyway its rude to assume things about a person - imagine he said that Dean was a homeless person and Dean replied he worked in finance actually - Sometimes you can never win (and I speak from not being a fan of sunak)
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Interesting.

    Is Rishi's standard assumption that Britain's economy is purely finance, or is his standard assumption that everyone he's talking to works in finance?
  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Christ, it was a painful watch. Sunak comes across as a nice guy but hideously out of his depth. Of course it is hard work talking to a complete stranger you have nothing in common with in front of a TV camera, but this is a basic skill you are supposed to master before becoming PM.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    IanB2 said:

    So today’s widely anticipated traffic chaos with a predicated 17 million drivers on the road this lunchtime, came to nothing. A3, M25, all clear.

    The usual bottleneck of the North Circular and the A13 has been quiet - a little busy at lunchtime briefly but no worse than a normal Saturday.

    The East Ham shops were very busy this morning - I suppose as most of us are now economically inactive or working at home (which some would have you believe is the same) we've been able to get our Christmas supplies delivered in good time which has left the shops available today for the "real" workers.
  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    This is not a big thing - anyway its rude to assume things about a person - imagine he said that Dean was a homeless person and Dean replied he worked in finance actually - Sometimes you can never win (and I speak from not being a fan of sunak)
    The fact that Dean was getting free food in a homeless shelter probably indicated that he didn't work in private equity.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    It would devalue UK degrees, much as you would devalue Sterling by printing bucketloads.
  • Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Interesting.

    Is Rishi's standard assumption that Britain's economy is purely finance, or is his standard assumption that everyone he's talking to works in finance?
    The article is deliberately misleading - Dean says he's interested in finance, and Sunak asks if he works in the industry, which isn't unreasonable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Interesting.

    Is Rishi's standard assumption that Britain's economy is purely finance, or is his standard assumption that everyone he's talking to works in finance?
    Maybe he just assumed that anybody who works in finance deserves to end up homeless and starving because they're so thick.

    He'd be partially right. Many of them do deserve it for their grotesque financial mismanagement.

    What they deserve and what they actually get, however...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    The Russians demonstrating yet again that they're not only utter scum but sore losers:

    Russia-Ukraine war: Strikes on Kherson kill seven
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64085480
  • An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    What about posthumous awards? Don't want to come across as some kind of necrophobe.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IanB2 said:

    So today’s widely anticipated traffic chaos with a predicated 17 million drivers on the road this lunchtime, came to nothing. A3, M25, all clear.

    Classic people management. Tell everyone how bad it will be today so lots travel yesterday instead. Job done. See also millennium bug. Fixed because of all the attention, in the event, little went wrong.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    Interesting.

    Is Rishi's standard assumption that Britain's economy is purely finance, or is his standard assumption that everyone he's talking to works in finance?
    The article is deliberately misleading - Dean says he's interested in finance, and Sunak asks if he works in the industry, which isn't unreasonable.
    Ah, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    FF43 said:

    Thought I should do my homework on the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill. On the whole it looks like a process change so that trans people can officially change their gender on how they self-identify, rather than have to go through a humiliating psychiatric investigation. As such it brings Scotland in line with best practice that is being brought into place in Italy, France, Germany, Canada etc. It is also fundamentally a humane piece of legislation, which is why I think it gets broad support across parties in Scotland.

    I am unimpressed by JK Rowling's arguments, which on the surface are that it gives carte-blanche to predatory males to make a false declaration to invade women-only spaces. In that case the effort should be on tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations, and not to stop trans people self identifying at all. The subtext of her argument, I think, is that discrimination against trans people is actually fine, but she's not prepared to say so openly.

    On topic, if Labour get 30% of the vote in the next GE, they will be in the territory of taking significant numbers of seats off the SNP.

    A very good post. More light than heat. A nice summation. Thanks
  • novanova Posts: 690

    Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    This is not a big thing - anyway its rude to assume things about a person - imagine he said that Dean was a homeless person and Dean replied he worked in finance actually - Sometimes you can never win (and I speak from not being a fan of sunak)
    Very true - I once volunteered with the Big Issue and half the sellers are on the board of at least one FTSE 100 company.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    nova said:

    Rishi is astonishingly awkward.

    As in worse than Theresa May.

    There’s a puppyish earnestness in there which is not unappealing but overall it’s shocking that he’s supposed to be the First Lord of the Treasury.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/rishi-sunak-asks-if-homeless-man-works-in-business-during-cringe-chat/ar-AA15D6BY

    The prime minister visited a homeless shelter in London run by Passage yesterday and got behind the counter to dish out food ahead of Christmas.

    Sunak asked one homeless man, Dean, how he was doing, to which he replied: ‘Hungry.’

    The Tory leader said: ‘Well, let’s hope we get you some good breakfast.’

    After handing him sausages, toast and eggs, Dean asked whether Sunak is repairing Britain’s battered economy.

    ‘That’s exactly what I’m trying to do,’ Sunak replied, before asking if Dean works in finance.

    ‘No, I’m homeless. I’m actually a homeless person,’ Dean clarified.


    This is not a big thing - anyway its rude to assume things about a person - imagine he said that Dean was a homeless person and Dean replied he worked in finance actually - Sometimes you can never win (and I speak from not being a fan of sunak)
    Very true - I once volunteered with the Big Issue and half the sellers are on the board of at least one FTSE 100 company.
    I wish they were. They'd be better at it, in many cases. At least they know how much money they have and what they can spend it on.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    I think Sturgeon has calculated (wrongly imo) that all Governments will be marched inevitably down this track, and wants her Scottish Government to be highlighted as the first in the UK to do so, buffing its progressive credentials - there's nothing more or less to it than that. Same as everything she does.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Three successive Saturday afternoons without horse racing on tv - how will the world survive?

    Without wishing to poke the hornet's nest too much, I've not seen much comment on the awful borrowing figures from earlier in the week. £22 billion was borrowed in November which was well above City estimates - £7.3 billion of the figure was debt interest repayment so we are borrowing to cover our existing £2 trillion debt.

    It's back then to the old argument which informs the Government's current stance on strikes - one side is you can reduce borrowing by reducing spending and that includes money on wages (though not pensions) so you persuade/cajole public sector workers to accept net pay cuts to help balance the books.

    I suppose the other side of this is around money to support energy bills which has given to everyone irrespective of need (a pensioner friend has told me she has received nearly £1,000 of Government money toward her energy bills for a two-bedroom flat).

    There's also the proposition another way of reducing borrowing is to get in more revenue from taxation and if that can't or isn't being derived from expanding economic activity, then levels of taxation will need to rise to close the gap.

    The truth is it's not really an either/or, it's more likely a both/and.

    Monday and Tuesday should be on Stodge. We can more than make up for it. I can’t wait to get my head into cards.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited December 2022
    checklist said:

    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    What about posthumous awards? Don't want to come across as some kind of necrophobe.
    Why not?

    Seriously - we can’t roll back the degree-for-everyone thing. Why not roll *with it*?

    Make the apprenticeships everyone talks about degrees. Make all the professional courses and qualifications at least a module in a degree.

    As someone pointed out - we can either train nurses for 3 years and give them a “certificate in nursing” or we can train them for 3 years and give them a degree.

    If we can merge the worlds of white and blue collar, we can also get people to do qualifications that span both - they already do, in many ways.

    A CNC milling machine operator has to understand how to lathe and mill manually. Plus IT, plus materials science plus….
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2022
    kle4 said:

    More comic relief from MAGA Maniacs -

    The Hill - Mike Lindell questions DeSantis 2022 election win: ‘I don’t believe it’

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786368-mike-lindell-questions-desantis-2022-election-win-i-dont-believe-it/

    Pillow-monger & Putinist Mike Lindell jumps head-first down yet another rat-hole for the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo.

    What does he even get out of his efforts? At least Trump rakes in donations.
    Trump/Putin wannabe Lindell sells his pillows and other related products to fellow cultists.

    His commercials are ubiquitous on US broadcast TV el-cheepo channels targeting/fleecing geezers.

    Edit - Pun NOT originally intended. Anyway, Lindell pimps his products as being made of "Giza" cotton, his way of avoiding mentioning a country full of people HIS people do NOT like.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    kle4 said:

    More comic relief from MAGA Maniacs -

    The Hill - Mike Lindell questions DeSantis 2022 election win: ‘I don’t believe it’

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786368-mike-lindell-questions-desantis-2022-election-win-i-dont-believe-it/

    Pillow-monger & Putinist Mike Lindell jumps head-first down yet another rat-hole for the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo.

    What does he even get out of his efforts? At least Trump rakes in donations.
    Trump/Putin wannabe Lindell sells his pillows and other related products to fellow cultists.

    His commercials are ubiquitous on US broadcast TV el-cheepo channels targeting/fleecing geezers.
    And in the UK...
  • carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    More comic relief from MAGA Maniacs -

    The Hill - Mike Lindell questions DeSantis 2022 election win: ‘I don’t believe it’

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786368-mike-lindell-questions-desantis-2022-election-win-i-dont-believe-it/

    Pillow-monger & Putinist Mike Lindell jumps head-first down yet another rat-hole for the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo.

    What does he even get out of his efforts? At least Trump rakes in donations.
    Trump/Putin wannabe Lindell sells his pillows and other related products to fellow cultists.

    His commercials are ubiquitous on US broadcast TV el-cheepo channels targeting/fleecing geezers.
    And in the UK...
    Really? So he's gone global. Like Steve Bannon!
  • For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    I think Sturgeon has calculated (wrongly imo) that all Governments will be marched inevitably down this track, and wants her Scottish Government to be highlighted as the first in the UK to do so, buffing its progressive credentials - there's nothing more or less to it than that. Same as everything she does.
    Nothing progressive in being anti-female.
  • I am just about to go to the pub so... Happy Christmas to all on PB 👍🍺
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    Tres said:

    Looking at Mr D’s post. It would suggest something like 1945. In England and Wales anyway.

    If only the LibDems could get their act together, and perchance, a new leader!

    I’m starting to think that Labour don’t need Scotland, because they’re heading for a 45-/97-style landslide in England and Wales. Keir Starmer has clearly already reached that conclusion, otherwise he wouldn’t be so assiduously sticking the vickies up to the Jocks.

    The Lib Dems are a complete mystery to me, both north and south of the border. If Mark Senior was around he’d be expertly sticking the boot in to the Tories, the Labourites and the SNP. Where is the Mark de nos jours?!? C’mon sandal-wearing Dr Who aficionados of the world: show us yer six-packs and testosterone. We could do with a laugh.
    Agreed; as an ex Liberal and sometime LibDem activist, I am saddened to see the complete lack of activity locally; this seat might not be hopeful, but Colchester is next door, which was a LibDem seat in 97.
    They’ve lost their mojo.

    Scottish Liberals and Lib Dems used to have real spunk and natural authority. David Steel, Menzies Campbell, Charlie Kennedy, Malcolm Bruce, Jim Wallace, Jo Grimond. These men were giants astride the Scottish political landscape. Veterans of the long, long fight for Scottish self governance. Respected and feared by opponents (well, maybe not Malcolm Bruce).

    Nowadays the standard is absolutely shocking. Let’s not name names: no need to humiliate the timrous beasties.
    Johnson going and Starmer looking like the next PM in waiting has taken a lot of the wind out of the 'loud' LD activists. Still plenty of activity going on in the local level where there are existing toeholds but that won't be visible at the national level, and from Sweden you won't hear a thing.
    Please enlighten us: where is all this “plenty of activity going on in the local level”? Specifics please, not generalities.
    Here in Barnes, delivering LibDem leaflets on the coldest day of the year.


    Last May three LibDem councillors replaced the Tories who had been in place here for 20 years.
    Richmond Council has 48 LibDem councillors and one Tory (who is 92 years old) matching the demographic.
    Average house price over £1 million, overwhelmingly graduates and diehard Remainers you mean?

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/barnes.html
    The standard Liberal Democrats voters now
    There are a lot of us in Richmond, Twickenham, Kingston, Wimbledon, Esher, Carshalton, Winchester ...
    And Bath and North Oxford and West Edinburgh and Chesham and Amersham.

    Almost all LD seats or top target seats are very wealthy, very expensive and filled with graduates.

    By contrast under Charles Kennedy the LDs won most seats in Cornwall and seats like Burnley and Colchester and the LDs had five times the MPs they do now.

    Instead the LDs are now the poshest party not the Tories
    And supporting the Conservatives if you are under age 50 is weird.
    The Conservatives won 39 to 50 year olds in 2019
    You’re big on past performance being an indicator of future performance aren’t you? By 2024 roughly half of those people will be over 50. And your sales pitch is hardly “youth” (by which I mean the under 50s, absurdly) friendly.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    Universities would no longer be able to justify charging at least £18k for a degree. "Degree credentialism" funds a large part of the economy.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    Instead, we live in Liz-topian Britain.
    Fortunately, we don't.
    We will though. We will. She’s coming back.
  • Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Thought I should do my homework on the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill. On the whole it looks like a process change so that trans people can officially change their gender on how they self-identify, rather than have to go through a humiliating psychiatric investigation. As such it brings Scotland in line with best practice that is being brought into place in Italy, France, Germany, Canada etc. It is also fundamentally a humane piece of legislation, which is why I think it gets broad support across parties in Scotland.

    I am unimpressed by JK Rowling's arguments, which on the surface are that it gives carte-blanche to predatory males to make a false declaration to invade women-only spaces. In that case the effort should be on tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations, and not to stop trans people self identifying at all. The subtext of her argument, I think, is that discrimination against trans people is actually fine, but she's not prepared to say so openly.

    On topic, if Labour get 30% of the vote in the next GE, they will be in the territory of taking significant numbers of seats off the SNP.

    A very good post. More light than heat. A nice summation. Thanks
    No it isn't, it is mere witch-finding. How on earth does this guy purport to read JKR's mind as to her motivation? She says she is concerned about women being raped, but he is far too cunning to fall for that sort of nonsense? And how does he think you "tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations"? Absent the sort of mind-reading superpower he is clearly exercising in the case of JKR.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Jaguar shuts down XJ plant to make space for new models to come, and slows down production of other cars due to the chip crisis. The independent says the PM can't have a new XJ due to "brexit":

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html

    Mendacious, even by Jon Stone and The Independent's low standards. I suppose he may not have written the headline, to be fair.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    edited December 2022
    Greetings from A&E. Dad in for sepsis. Seems stable. Not quite the ideal start to Xmas, but par for the course.

    Realised that only one Xmas since 2017 without a family death (3 in total) or serious illness involving hospitalisation. Only in 2020 did we manage to avoid a Xmas trip to the hospital. And that wasn’t a huge barrel of laughs either.

    Sixth A&E visit of 2022 so far.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Greetings from A&E. Dad in for sepsis. Seems stable. Not quite the ideal start to Xmas, but par for the course.

    Realised that only one Xmas since 2017 without a family death (3 in total) or serious illness involving hospitalisation. Only in 2020 did we manage to avoid a Xmas trip to the hospital. And that wasn’t a huge barrel of laughs either.

    Sixth A&E visit of 2022 so far.

    Best wishes for your father, Jonathan, and for you & (the rest of) yours.

    EDIT - Perhaps while your at the hospital, you can interview nurses & etc. re: their views of Rishi Sunak & his "government"?

    I well remember, when my own Daddy Dearest was in the hospital, discussing the then-impending Good Friday Agreement with an Irish priest long resident in the USA who was one of the hospital chaplains.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Local by-election summary for 2022:

    Net change in seats:

    LibDems +25
    Labour +16
    Tories -37
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited December 2022
    ..
    checklist said:

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Thought I should do my homework on the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill. On the whole it looks like a process change so that trans people can officially change their gender on how they self-identify, rather than have to go through a humiliating psychiatric investigation. As such it brings Scotland in line with best practice that is being brought into place in Italy, France, Germany, Canada etc. It is also fundamentally a humane piece of legislation, which is why I think it gets broad support across parties in Scotland.

    I am unimpressed by JK Rowling's arguments, which on the surface are that it gives carte-blanche to predatory males to make a false declaration to invade women-only spaces. In that case the effort should be on tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations, and not to stop trans people self identifying at all. The subtext of her argument, I think, is that discrimination against trans people is actually fine, but she's not prepared to say so openly.

    On topic, if Labour get 30% of the vote in the next GE, they will be in the territory of taking significant numbers of seats off the SNP.

    A very good post. More light than heat. A nice summation. Thanks
    No it isn't, it is mere witch-finding. How on earth does this guy purport to read JKR's mind as to her motivation? She says she is concerned about women being raped, but he is far too cunning to fall for that sort of nonsense? And how does he think you "tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations"? Absent the sort of mind-reading superpower he is clearly exercising in the case of JKR.
    Strange that you’re not similarly exercised by the relentless and repetitive reading of Sturgeon’s mind and motivations, quite a lot of it on this very thread. That must be the good, insightful type of mind reading.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Jonathan said:

    Greetings from A&E. Dad in for sepsis. Seems stable. Not quite the ideal start to Xmas, but par for the course.

    Realised that only one Xmas since 2017 without a family death (3 in total) or serious illness involving hospitalisation. Only in 2020 did we manage to avoid a Xmas trip to the hospital. And that wasn’t a huge barrel of laughs either.

    Sixth A&E visit of 2022 so far.

    Traditions are important...

    Best wishes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    It’s Christmas Eve, which means only one thing. Well, no, it means several things, but one of the things it means is Duvet Know It’s Christmas, aka #duvetknowitschristmas. 1/
    https://twitter.com/rhodri/status/1606724116819705856
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964
    Carnyx said:

    checklist said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    For those who don’t understand how S35 of Scotland Act (passed by Labour in 1998) works 👇🏼
    Equality Act 2010 is reserved to UK and GRR bill will have an adverse effect on it. Just look at equal pay for example. What else is @UKGovScotland to do? They can’t ignore the law.


    https://twitter.com/dalgetysusan/status/1606619550941855744

    The SNP were asked repeatedly on what impact the GRR Bill would have on rUK and reserved matters and ignored it.

    Interesting that it's always the Tories that have "started" a culture war with this, whereas it's actually the SNP.
    At this stage, both need each other.

    I’ve no doubt Sturgeon had one eye on the “create friction with Westminster” possibility, whatever the merits or otherwise of the bill.
    Oh yes, Sturgeon's strategic political interest is in stoking resentment against Westminster and the Union.

    So, that's what she will do.
    But it's been the strategic political aim of the Conservative Party for many, many years to hinder Scottish home rule, independence and the Holyrood Parliament as much as they possibly can. Right back to the 19th century. And it hjas been much, much worse under the Johnson and Truss regimes. So why are you shocked to find the SNP commenting on this?
    Scottish unionism was/is a Scottish phenomenon, though. I’m not convinced by your historical analysis.

    The SNP are a pack of grievance-mongers. That some of those grievances are legitimate and provoked doesn’t change that.
    “Scottish unionism”? Huh? What’s that?

    You mean British unionism, which exists in various countries.
    You have perhaps forgotten about the Unionist Party of Scotland, “ the main centre-right political party in Scotland between 1912 and 1965”, according to Wikipedia.

    I guess you have been in Sweden a while now. 😂
    But it was Irish Unionism to begin with, then British, as I have patiently explained earlier.

    You need to specify what you are wanting to be in Union with.
    Sure, but it was a Scottish phenomenon.

    There was long a decent chunk of the Scottish population who desired a British (which includes Scottish) unitary state as opposed to the various home rule etc ideas favoured by Labour, Liberal, and now the SNP.
    British Unionism was “a Scottish phenomenon”?!?

    Christ almighty. Puhrleese.
    There was nothing to stop James VI indicating that he already had a perfectly good throne, thanks, and that was quite enough to be going on with, in 1603. Instead of which he was out of edinburgh like a rat down a drainpipe before Liz's corpse had cooled off (and went back once in the following 22 years). And there was no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither. There's a compelling case to be made that the Union was basically Made In Scotland.
    "no gun held to the Scotch parliament's heads in 1707, neither"

    Not so. Threat of blockade and invasion, and briberyt of the powerbrokers.
    The Darien scheme sent Scotland bankrupt and the Scottish Parliament therefore were begging Westminster for the Act of Union and a bail out
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    Tres said:

    Looking at Mr D’s post. It would suggest something like 1945. In England and Wales anyway.

    If only the LibDems could get their act together, and perchance, a new leader!

    I’m starting to think that Labour don’t need Scotland, because they’re heading for a 45-/97-style landslide in England and Wales. Keir Starmer has clearly already reached that conclusion, otherwise he wouldn’t be so assiduously sticking the vickies up to the Jocks.

    The Lib Dems are a complete mystery to me, both north and south of the border. If Mark Senior was around he’d be expertly sticking the boot in to the Tories, the Labourites and the SNP. Where is the Mark de nos jours?!? C’mon sandal-wearing Dr Who aficionados of the world: show us yer six-packs and testosterone. We could do with a laugh.
    Agreed; as an ex Liberal and sometime LibDem activist, I am saddened to see the complete lack of activity locally; this seat might not be hopeful, but Colchester is next door, which was a LibDem seat in 97.
    They’ve lost their mojo.

    Scottish Liberals and Lib Dems used to have real spunk and natural authority. David Steel, Menzies Campbell, Charlie Kennedy, Malcolm Bruce, Jim Wallace, Jo Grimond. These men were giants astride the Scottish political landscape. Veterans of the long, long fight for Scottish self governance. Respected and feared by opponents (well, maybe not Malcolm Bruce).

    Nowadays the standard is absolutely shocking. Let’s not name names: no need to humiliate the timrous beasties.
    Johnson going and Starmer looking like the next PM in waiting has taken a lot of the wind out of the 'loud' LD activists. Still plenty of activity going on in the local level where there are existing toeholds but that won't be visible at the national level, and from Sweden you won't hear a thing.
    Please enlighten us: where is all this “plenty of activity going on in the local level”? Specifics please, not generalities.
    Here in Barnes, delivering LibDem leaflets on the coldest day of the year.


    Last May three LibDem councillors replaced the Tories who had been in place here for 20 years.
    Richmond Council has 48 LibDem councillors and one Tory (who is 92 years old) matching the demographic.
    Average house price over £1 million, overwhelmingly graduates and diehard Remainers you mean?

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/barnes.html
    The standard Liberal Democrats voters now
    There are a lot of us in Richmond, Twickenham, Kingston, Wimbledon, Esher, Carshalton, Winchester ...
    And Bath and North Oxford and West Edinburgh and Chesham and Amersham.

    Almost all LD seats or top target seats are very wealthy, very expensive and filled with graduates.

    By contrast under Charles Kennedy the LDs won most seats in Cornwall and seats like Burnley and Colchester and the LDs had five times the MPs they do now.

    Instead the LDs are now the poshest party not the Tories
    And supporting the Conservatives if you are under age 50 is weird.
    The Conservatives won 39 to 50 year olds in 2019
    You’re big on past performance being an indicator of future performance aren’t you? By 2024 roughly half of those people will be over 50. And your sales pitch is hardly “youth” (by which I mean the under 50s, absurdly) friendly.
    No they won't, 5/11 of them only will be. Less than half.

    Plus the median voter now is about 50 anyway, so the Conservatives could lose every age up to 50 and still narrowly win at least most seats
  • ..

    checklist said:

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Thought I should do my homework on the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill. On the whole it looks like a process change so that trans people can officially change their gender on how they self-identify, rather than have to go through a humiliating psychiatric investigation. As such it brings Scotland in line with best practice that is being brought into place in Italy, France, Germany, Canada etc. It is also fundamentally a humane piece of legislation, which is why I think it gets broad support across parties in Scotland.

    I am unimpressed by JK Rowling's arguments, which on the surface are that it gives carte-blanche to predatory males to make a false declaration to invade women-only spaces. In that case the effort should be on tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations, and not to stop trans people self identifying at all. The subtext of her argument, I think, is that discrimination against trans people is actually fine, but she's not prepared to say so openly.

    On topic, if Labour get 30% of the vote in the next GE, they will be in the territory of taking significant numbers of seats off the SNP.

    A very good post. More light than heat. A nice summation. Thanks
    No it isn't, it is mere witch-finding. How on earth does this guy purport to read JKR's mind as to her motivation? She says she is concerned about women being raped, but he is far too cunning to fall for that sort of nonsense? And how does he think you "tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations"? Absent the sort of mind-reading superpower he is clearly exercising in the case of JKR.
    Strange that you’re not similarly exercised by the relentless and repetitive reading of Sturgeon’s mind and motivations, quite a lot of it on this very thread. That must be the good, insightful type of mind reading.
    Get back to me when some idiot cunning meister suggests she secretly hates women.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/
  • Weather-Or-Not-You-Want-It Report

    This is perhaps the strangest lead-up to Christmas that yours truly can recall, weather-wise anyway.

    Especially here in Seattle. Where today's unrelenting cold rain on Christmas Eve, with temperatures in 40sF in the city and most of rest of Western Washington lowlands, is being greeted as a HUGE improvement over yesterday.

    Because Friday was the worst ice storm in living memory, caused by freezing rain falling on sub-freezing ground and snow cover. Glazed everything with ice. Sensible folk (such as myself) stayed indoors. Only time I went out, was to spread salt and chip ice from my porch and walkway, which was challenging - and hazardous - enough for a chicken like me.

    During the day on Friday the temperature slowly but steadily rose. Consequently the ice started melting, but took it's sweet time about it - actually a GOOD thing with respect to possible stream AND street flooding. Overnight thawing process was aided by steady rain.

    Which has kept up through Saturday morning. So much that I've gotten close-to-soaked twice, going out for my morning coffee (which I had to skip yesterday) and just now to the grocery store. Which unsurprisingly was heaving with customers. With zero a cough drop to buy!
  • DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    Instead, we live in Liz-topian Britain.
    Fortunately, we don't.
    We will though. We will. She’s coming back.
    I guessed that was a joke. but NO!
    If Rishi continues to sink and the Tories get rid of him with the final decision going to Tory members, then I guess it's quite possible.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited December 2022
    8 degrees Celsius here in central England.
  • I AM NOT A BOT!

    Instead, I'm your fellow PBer - urging you at this festive time of the year, to give MOST generously to the Politicalbetting.com Special Fund for the Jollification of Misfortunate Punters and Imprescient Psephologists.

    As incentive, spare funds NOT immediately required for immediate philanthropy, administrative support, boardmember bonuses, staff travel and "training", etc., etc., will be used to rent, refurbish, fumigate and fuel the PB By-Election Bottle Bus!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penny Mordaunt has written quite an interesting piece on Con Home about dystopian Britain we would now be experiencing had the country voted for Ed Miliband in 2015.

    It’s actually quite good, although it makes a number of claims which seem suspect (has crime really halved under the Tories?).

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/23/penny-mordaunt-britain-would-have-paid-a-high-price-for-choosing-chaos-with-ed-miliband/

    Instead, we live in Liz-topian Britain.
    Fortunately, we don't.
    We will though. We will. She’s coming back.
    I guessed that was a joke. but NO!
    If Rishi continues to sink and the Tories get rid of him with the final decision going to Tory members, then I guess it's quite possible.
    It isn't, in the unlikely event that Rishi went before the election Boris would return as PM by coronation.

    Tory members really wanted him anyway not Truss. Indeed the Tories fell below 20% in some polls under Truss which Rishi has never done
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    darkage said:

    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    Universities would no longer be able to justify charging at least £18k for a degree. "Degree credentialism" funds a large part of the economy.
    Serious industrial apprenticeships would be expensive. 18k a year for high end, residential training isn’t unreasonable.

    Providing it is high end training.

    Let’s get 100% of the country a degree in something.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    Probably becuase we've lowered the standards of the checks, though. Wouldn't want to do that permanently, but it does undermine the strike rather...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    I was told the following by someone who works as airline staff.

    At Heathrow, there have been repeated problems with border staff sabotaging the automated passport check machines - just enough to make them break down x percent of the time.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    Tres said:

    Looking at Mr D’s post. It would suggest something like 1945. In England and Wales anyway.

    If only the LibDems could get their act together, and perchance, a new leader!

    I’m starting to think that Labour don’t need Scotland, because they’re heading for a 45-/97-style landslide in England and Wales. Keir Starmer has clearly already reached that conclusion, otherwise he wouldn’t be so assiduously sticking the vickies up to the Jocks.

    The Lib Dems are a complete mystery to me, both north and south of the border. If Mark Senior was around he’d be expertly sticking the boot in to the Tories, the Labourites and the SNP. Where is the Mark de nos jours?!? C’mon sandal-wearing Dr Who aficionados of the world: show us yer six-packs and testosterone. We could do with a laugh.
    Agreed; as an ex Liberal and sometime LibDem activist, I am saddened to see the complete lack of activity locally; this seat might not be hopeful, but Colchester is next door, which was a LibDem seat in 97.
    They’ve lost their mojo.

    Scottish Liberals and Lib Dems used to have real spunk and natural authority. David Steel, Menzies Campbell, Charlie Kennedy, Malcolm Bruce, Jim Wallace, Jo Grimond. These men were giants astride the Scottish political landscape. Veterans of the long, long fight for Scottish self governance. Respected and feared by opponents (well, maybe not Malcolm Bruce).

    Nowadays the standard is absolutely shocking. Let’s not name names: no need to humiliate the timrous beasties.
    Johnson going and Starmer looking like the next PM in waiting has taken a lot of the wind out of the 'loud' LD activists. Still plenty of activity going on in the local level where there are existing toeholds but that won't be visible at the national level, and from Sweden you won't hear a thing.
    Please enlighten us: where is all this “plenty of activity going on in the local level”? Specifics please, not generalities.
    Here in Barnes, delivering LibDem leaflets on the coldest day of the year.


    Last May three LibDem councillors replaced the Tories who had been in place here for 20 years.
    Richmond Council has 48 LibDem councillors and one Tory (who is 92 years old) matching the demographic.
    Average house price over £1 million, overwhelmingly graduates and diehard Remainers you mean?

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/barnes.html
    The standard Liberal Democrats voters now
    There are a lot of us in Richmond, Twickenham, Kingston, Wimbledon, Esher, Carshalton, Winchester ...
    And Bath and North Oxford and West Edinburgh and Chesham and Amersham.

    Almost all LD seats or top target seats are very wealthy, very expensive and filled with graduates.

    By contrast under Charles Kennedy the LDs won most seats in Cornwall and seats like Burnley and Colchester and the LDs had five times the MPs they do now.

    Instead the LDs are now the poshest party not the Tories
    And supporting the Conservatives if you are under age 50 is weird.
    The Conservatives won 39 to 50 year olds in 2019
    You’re big on past performance being an indicator of future performance aren’t you? By 2024 roughly half of those people will be over 50. And your sales pitch is hardly “youth” (by which I mean the under 50s, absurdly) friendly.
    No they won't, 5/11 of them only will be. Less than half.

    Plus the median voter now is about 50 anyway, so the Conservatives could lose every age up to 50 and still narrowly win at least most seats
    5/11 is by anyone's definition 'roughly half '. That is what roughly means, not exact but close to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    checklist said:

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Thought I should do my homework on the Scottish Gender Recognition Reform Bill. On the whole it looks like a process change so that trans people can officially change their gender on how they self-identify, rather than have to go through a humiliating psychiatric investigation. As such it brings Scotland in line with best practice that is being brought into place in Italy, France, Germany, Canada etc. It is also fundamentally a humane piece of legislation, which is why I think it gets broad support across parties in Scotland.

    I am unimpressed by JK Rowling's arguments, which on the surface are that it gives carte-blanche to predatory males to make a false declaration to invade women-only spaces. In that case the effort should be on tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations, and not to stop trans people self identifying at all. The subtext of her argument, I think, is that discrimination against trans people is actually fine, but she's not prepared to say so openly.

    On topic, if Labour get 30% of the vote in the next GE, they will be in the territory of taking significant numbers of seats off the SNP.

    A very good post. More light than heat. A nice summation. Thanks
    No it isn't, it is mere witch-finding. How on earth does this guy purport to read JKR's mind as to her motivation? She says she is concerned about women being raped, but he is far too cunning to fall for that sort of nonsense? And how does he think you "tightening up the measures within the Bill to prevent false declarations"? Absent the sort of mind-reading superpower he is clearly exercising in the case of JKR.
    Good Lord! Don’t you know? The way it works is this

    1) JKR says that she is worried about women’s safety.
    2) But the bill is Progressive. In a Progressive cause.
    3) Therefore it can’t have bad effects.
    4) Therefore JKR is a probably a witch
    5) Witches float
    6) What else floats?
    7) Ducks
    8) Get me a large pair of scales.
  • Politico.com - A Secret Report About a CEO’s Sexual Misconduct Was Just Made Public by Congress

    Zia Chishti, the politically-connected Washington entrepreneur, sued an ex-employee who he says lied to the Judiciary Committee. An old arbitration report tells another story.

    Last week, after Zia Chishti filed a defamation lawsuit against the woman whose wrenching Congressional testimony about alleged sexual abuse cost Chishti his job as CEO of the unicorn AI firm Afiniti, Chishti explained himself by saying that “at this stage, I have nothing to lose.”

    He may have spoken too soon.

    On Saturday, a day after this column reported on the formerly high-flying Washington business figure’s unusual legal move against an ex-employee who testified under oath, the House Judiciary Committee entered a sharply critical 2019 arbitration tribunal ruling about Chishti’s workplace behavior into the Congressional Record — instantaneously turning the heretofore secret report into a publicly-available document.

    The release, quietly added to the record of an unrelated hearing on a late-December weekend afternoon, amounts to a tidy Washington-procedural way of saying: Don’t mess with our witness.

    As it happens, the document appears utterly devastating for Chishti, a man who not long ago operated from an office a block from the White House and was able to attract politics and government A-listers like former British Prime Minister David Cameron, former French Prime Minister François Fillon and former U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Michael Mullen to Afiniti’s advisory board. . . .

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/22/sexual-abuse-congress-lawsuit-00075061

    SSI - and here is link to the now "publicly-available document"

    https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20221208/115220/HHRG-117-JU00-20221208-SD999.pdf
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    darkage said:

    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    Universities would no longer be able to justify charging at least £18k for a degree. "Degree credentialism" funds a large part of the economy.
    Serious industrial apprenticeships would be expensive. 18k a year for high end, residential training isn’t unreasonable.

    Providing it is high end training.

    Let’s get 100% of the country a degree in something.
    Yeah but my point is that it will kill off an entire industry and sector of the economy so it wont happen.

    Plus you can't just hand out degrees in delivery driving/bricklaying without trivialising and devaluing higher education. Some other form of credentialism will emerge.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    I was told the following by someone who works as airline staff.

    At Heathrow, there have been repeated problems with border staff sabotaging the automated passport check machines - just enough to make them break down x percent of the time.
    I can believe it. Tip: when a machine claims it can't read the passport and says "seek assistance", just dip back into the queue and use a different machine: don't actually go to the manual queue...
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    This is the harsh light of day: UK Border Force are shit. For all of the whining about controlling our borders, we have under-resourced them as badly as every other service.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    This is the harsh light of day: UK Border Force are shit. For all of the whining about controlling our borders, we have under-resourced them as badly as every other service.
    Chances of Rishi doing a Reagan and firing them all approx zero though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited December 2022
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    An idea for politics

    1) We have created a degree credentialist society
    2) 50% of the population don’t have a degree.

    Let us make all qualifications a degree. All training courses becomes modules of a future degree….

    Further, let’s retroactively give degrees to people who would have them under the new system.

    Corgi Gas + 5 years of trading + no explosions = 1st in Gas Plumbing

    This will massively boost the U.K. up the ranks of educated nations. Put more people on a level footing. Yes, at first there will be snobbery, but it will fade.

    With a bit of effort, it will break down the white collar vs blue collar bullshit.

    What’s not to like?

    Universities would no longer be able to justify charging at least £18k for a degree. "Degree credentialism" funds a large part of the economy.
    Serious industrial apprenticeships would be expensive. 18k a year for high end, residential training isn’t unreasonable.

    Providing it is high end training.

    Let’s get 100% of the country a degree in something.
    Yeah but my point is that it will kill off an entire industry and sector of the economy so it wont happen.

    Plus you can't just hand out degrees in delivery driving/bricklaying without trivialising and devaluing higher education. Some other form of credentialism will emerge.
    The chap who designed and sketched out an entire hot water system for a house, for me. And will now implement that, complete with paperwork on performance and regulatory sign off. Why isn’t that “degree level” skill?

    We are already seeing Masters degrees being required. The US style requirement for a PhD to show you are actually intellectual isn’t far off…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    I was told the following by someone who works as airline staff.

    At Heathrow, there have been repeated problems with border staff sabotaging the automated passport check machines - just enough to make them break down x percent of the time.
    I can believe it. Tip: when a machine claims it can't read the passport and says "seek assistance", just dip back into the queue and use a different machine: don't actually go to the manual queue...
    That’s what she said to do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Airports running ‘better than usual’ in ‘embarrassing’ blow to Border Force strikes

    Government had been braced for disruption as a week-long strike by 1,000 passport staff at six airports began"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/23/airports-running-better-usual-embarrassing-blow-border-force/

    Probably becuase we've lowered the standards of the checks, though. Wouldn't want to do that permanently, but it does undermine the strike rather...
    Easy to keep the queues short if you just wave people through.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022

    Good evening

    I have not posted much recently, partly because I have been busy but also I find the constant brexit, indyref2 , and AI discussions fairly tedious with so many entrenched views

    Politically I like Sunak, and he is the only conservative who can mitigate 2024 but frankly I have become very disillusioned with all politicians and while Starmer and labour may well win in 24 I do not expect much to change as no-one seems to have the inspiration, desire and charisma to take the country forward like a Thatcher or Blair

    However, it is Christmas eve and I just want to say a happy Christmas to each and every poster on PB, no matter how much we may disagree in politics, as this is the time for ' goodwill to all ' and let us hope that 2023 will see a better outlook for everyone as we do need to overcome the negativity and gloom that seems to invade all our lives every day

    Happy Christmas, BigG!

    And to all you good PB’ers.
  • ping said:

    Good evening

    I have not posted much recently, partly because I have been busy but also I find the constant brexit, indyref2 , and AI discussions fairly tedious with so many entrenched views

    Politically I like Sunak, and he is the only conservative who can mitigate 2024 but frankly I have become very disillusioned with all politicians and while Starmer and labour may well win in 24 I do not expect much to change as no-one seems to have the inspiration, desire and charisma to take the country forward like a Thatcher or Blair

    However, it is Christmas eve and I just want to say a happy Christmas to each and every poster on PB, no matter how much we may disagree in politics, as this is the time for ' goodwill to all ' and let us hope that 2023 will see a better outlook for everyone as we do need to overcome the negativity and gloom that seems to invade all our lives every day

    Happy Christmas, BigG!
    And you @ping
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Good evening

    I have not posted much recently, partly because I have been busy but also I find the constant brexit, indyref2 , and AI discussions fairly tedious with so many entrenched views

    Politically I like Sunak, and he is the only conservative who can mitigate 2024 but frankly I have become very disillusioned with all politicians and while Starmer and labour may well win in 24 I do not expect much to change as no-one seems to have the inspiration, desire and charisma to take the country forward like a Thatcher or Blair

    However, it is Christmas eve and I just want to say a happy Christmas to each and every poster on PB, no matter how much we may disagree in politics, as this is the time for ' goodwill to all ' and let us hope that 2023 will see a better outlook for everyone as we do need to overcome the negativity and gloom that seems to invade all our lives every day

    You never know - this might be the year everyone agrees on something!!!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    Jonathan said:

    Greetings from A&E. Dad in for sepsis. Seems stable. Not quite the ideal start to Xmas, but par for the course.

    Realised that only one Xmas since 2017 without a family death (3 in total) or serious illness involving hospitalisation. Only in 2020 did we manage to avoid a Xmas trip to the hospital. And that wasn’t a huge barrel of laughs either.

    Sixth A&E visit of 2022 so far.

    Sorry to hear. Hope my colleagues treat your Dad well.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790

    Good evening

    I have not posted much recently, partly because I have been busy but also I find the constant brexit, indyref2 , and AI discussions fairly tedious with so many entrenched views

    Politically I like Sunak, and he is the only conservative who can mitigate 2024 but frankly I have become very disillusioned with all politicians and while Starmer and labour may well win in 24 I do not expect much to change as no-one seems to have the inspiration, desire and charisma to take the country forward like a Thatcher or Blair

    However, it is Christmas eve and I just want to say a happy Christmas to each and every poster on PB, no matter how much we may disagree in politics, as this is the time for ' goodwill to all ' and let us hope that 2023 will see a better outlook for everyone as we do need to overcome the negativity and gloom that seems to invade all our lives every day

    Have a happy christmas! And - at worst - I hope 2023 turns out to be really, really boring!
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