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What do we think of the John Rentoul Dim Sum forecast? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    The southerners seem astounded by this white stuff that falls from the sky.

    "Has there been a disaster in an expanded polystyrene factory?", one asks.

    That would be a load of balls.
    Nicely ambiguous comment!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited December 2022

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    No, you're wrong. On my last trip to the States I heard this several times. "Oh, I'm travelling to the EU next summer" "Yes she's off to the EU, Slovenia I think" etc etc

    Yes it is a bureaucratic shorthand but it is also becoming a THING. The EU is now an entity in people's minds. Closer to a country than not
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    Just been doing that very thing - trying to get books sent by the publisher to a colleague without them getting snarled up in the paperwork (the returns rate is phenomenal even when the customs bumf is filled in). But very much in the sense of your point 1.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    John Rentoul has a pretty good track record when it comes to predictions IIRC.

    I predict that next year John Rentoul will still be a twat.
    He is an exceptionally nice bloke, and a reader of this site.
    Sorry I didn't realise you were his Mum.
    I am not.

    OTOH the site owner is a friend of his.

    Carry on.
    Sorry, I got that wrong. You are John Rentoul and I claim my £5

    "OTOH the site owner is a friend of his" - sad silly comment. Mike is not that small minded.
    Dig away

    Wake Duncan with thy digging
    It was 'knocking.' Get it wrong and you're making a grave mistake.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    In which case, it should have been really easy to defeat.

    Or just perhaps, there's a lot more behind Brexit than Remainer simpletons ever understood?
    There's lots of thick people sadly. Add in the xenophobes, fantasists, shallows and nostalgics, and even eliminating the substantial venn overlap of those you get a winning coalition.

    And it wasn't really close. The 52/48 is misleading because the passion was on the Leave side, most of those on the fence or not fussed would have gone with Remain, plus the 48 were highly concentrated in London, the big cities and Scotland.

    In FPTP constituency terms - for England - it was a Leave landslide. Maybe there's some rethink going on now but as of the Vote the spirit of England was overwhelmingly Leave.

    I'm cool with it now. Just so long as Tory rule ends at the next GE.
    I would suggest that far, far more Brexiteers agonised about their vote an were in the somewhat surprised they voted out.

    There are few Remainers who were torn over their decision. A group more certain of their position will not be found this side of Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church. Nor their intention to let you know it.
    That's because Remain was the status quo and a known quantity. Whereas Leave was a leap in the dark. If I had been minded to vote Leave I would certainly have found it a more anxious decision.
    We all know that Leave was a more successful campaign because they won, despite having to sell a leap in the dark which on most objective criteria for most people was going to leave them worse off. The Remain campaign was awful.
    Anyway, well done Leave. We're fucked and your project has run into the sand, but you really own the Remoaners, which seems to be important to you.
    Except - Remain wasn't really the status quo. Remain was a continuation of a sneaky acceptance of ever closer union within a federal body that had (has) aspirations to be a European rival to the USA.

    For forty years, the Europhile elite had made every effort to portray the biggest change in our status for centuries as the status quo. It was that illusion that came so spectacularly unstuck in 2016 when the voters decided "no further".
    Not really, we had an opt out of the Euro and Schengen and ever closer Union. If the EU was heading towards some kind of confederate state (which is possible but unlikely in my lifetime at least) we were clearly never going to be part of it. Instead of that comfortable semi detached berth we have our current isolation and economic self-harm. Well done Brexiteers, how clever.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited December 2022
    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    I don't think I agree with any of the Rentoul predictions apart from independence parties to get less than 50%.

    I don't even think DeSantis will be GOP nominee or Badenoch or Rayner next Tory and Labour leaders. Trump again or Pence more likely in my view for the former and Steve Barclay or Wes Street in more likely for the latter
  • Leon said:

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    No, you're wrong. On my last trip to the States I heard this several times. "Oh, I'm travelling to the EU next summer" "Yes she's off to the EU, Slovenia I think" etc etc

    Yes it is a bureaucratic shorthand but it is also becoming a THING. The EU is now an entity in people's minds. Closer to a country than not
    Americans have always referred to Yurp as if it's a single country. It's like how people here refer to Africa.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    No, you're wrong. On my last trip to the States I heard this several times. "Oh, I'm travelling to the EU next summer" "Yes she's off to the EU, Slovenia I think" etc etc

    Yes it is a bureaucratic shorthand but it is also becoming a THING. The EU is now an entity in people's minds. Closer to a country than not
    Americans have always referred to Yurp as if it's a single country. It's like how people here refer to Africa.
    But now they are saying "the EU". Not "Europe"

    It's a small but distinct change, and it means something
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    John Rentoul has a pretty good track record when it comes to predictions IIRC.

    I predict that next year John Rentoul will still be a twat.
    He is an exceptionally nice bloke, and a reader of this site.
    Sorry I didn't realise you were his Mum.
    I am not.

    OTOH the site owner is a friend of his.

    Carry on.
    Sorry, I got that wrong. You are John Rentoul and I claim my £5

    "OTOH the site owner is a friend of his" - sad silly comment. Mike is not that small minded.
    Dig away

    Wake Duncan with thy digging
    It was 'knocking.' Get it wrong and you're making a grave mistake.
    I know that.
  • Carnyx said:

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    Just been doing that very thing - trying to get books sent by the publisher to a colleague without them getting snarled up in the paperwork (the returns rate is phenomenal even when the customs bumf is filled in). But very much in the sense of your point 1.
    A German friend of mine keeps having British bike parts delivered to my house since they can't export to the EU anymore. Let's hope I go to Frankfurt as planned in the spring to drop them with him. If it takes much longer I might have an entire bike to take over.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Can't people move on? I can't be alone in finding the same old arguments and repetitive point-scoring utterly tedious.

    In the same way Brexiteers moved on from the 1970s...
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    No, you're wrong. On my last trip to the States I heard this several times. "Oh, I'm travelling to the EU next summer" "Yes she's off to the EU, Slovenia I think" etc etc

    Yes it is a bureaucratic shorthand but it is also becoming a THING. The EU is now an entity in people's minds. Closer to a country than not
    Americans have always referred to Yurp as if it's a single country. It's like how people here refer to Africa.
    But now they are saying "the EU". Not "Europe"

    It's a small but distinct change, and it means something
    It means that they associate Europe with a political organisation that we're not part of anymore. I'm not sure that's a great thing for us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    I can imagine people saying it in the sense of "travelling to/selling things to the EU is an utter ballsache since Brexit" as a talking point, but not as a place. Sort of a bureaucratic shorthand.

    But there's a gap between that and a Place Called The EU, unless you have a small brain or a smaller degree of honesty.
    No, you're wrong. On my last trip to the States I heard this several times. "Oh, I'm travelling to the EU next summer" "Yes she's off to the EU, Slovenia I think" etc etc

    Yes it is a bureaucratic shorthand but it is also becoming a THING. The EU is now an entity in people's minds. Closer to a country than not
    Americans have always referred to Yurp as if it's a single country. It's like how people here refer to Africa.
    But now they are saying "the EU". Not "Europe"

    It's a small but distinct change, and it means something
    To the traveller a country means no borders, and the currency and language don't change. If it's all euros and de facto English it's one country.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Data don't lie, hyufd. Perhaps your departure signed its death warrant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    How can anyone be happy when Michael Fabricant is their MP?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    M45 said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    John Rentoul has a pretty good track record when it comes to predictions IIRC.

    I predict that next year John Rentoul will still be a twat.
    He is an exceptionally nice bloke, and a reader of this site.
    Sorry I didn't realise you were his Mum.
    I am not.

    OTOH the site owner is a friend of his.

    Carry on.
    Sorry, I got that wrong. You are John Rentoul and I claim my £5

    "OTOH the site owner is a friend of his" - sad silly comment. Mike is not that small minded.
    Dig away

    Wake Duncan with thy digging
    It was 'knocking.' Get it wrong and you're making a grave mistake.
    I know that.
    Witch makes it worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    How can anyone be happy when Michael Fabricant is their MP?
    They know, for a fact, that they are not the dumbest person in their area?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    How can anyone be happy when Michael Fabricant is their MP?
    It's like supporting Scotland at football. When one has plumbed the depths, anything is an improvement - so one ight as well relax and enjoy life.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    John Rentoul has a pretty good track record when it comes to predictions IIRC.

    I predict that next year John Rentoul will still be a twat.
    He is an exceptionally nice bloke, and a reader of this site.
    Sorry I didn't realise you were his Mum.
    I am not.

    OTOH the site owner is a friend of his.

    Carry on.
    Sorry, I got that wrong. You are John Rentoul and I claim my £5

    "OTOH the site owner is a friend of his" - sad silly comment. Mike is not that small minded.
    Dig away

    Wake Duncan with thy digging
    It was 'knocking.' Get it wrong and you're making a grave mistake.
    I know that.
    Witch makes it worse.
    I know. I'm a frivolous dunce. Inane.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    M45 said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    John Rentoul has a pretty good track record when it comes to predictions IIRC.

    I predict that next year John Rentoul will still be a twat.
    He is an exceptionally nice bloke, and a reader of this site.
    Sorry I didn't realise you were his Mum.
    I am not.

    OTOH the site owner is a friend of his.

    Carry on.
    Sorry, I got that wrong. You are John Rentoul and I claim my £5

    "OTOH the site owner is a friend of his" - sad silly comment. Mike is not that small minded.
    Dig away

    Wake Duncan with thy digging
    It was 'knocking.' Get it wrong and you're making a grave mistake.
    I know that.
    Witch makes it worse.
    I know. I'm a frivolous dunce. Inane.
    You tried, but you didn't burn 'em.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
    It used to be Hyacinth Bouquet and full of retired colonels (see the end of Lawrence of Arabia). Now apart from the rural bits it is mainly full of ex London yuppies, voted Remain and has a LD led Council. Though perhaps that also explains its decline.

    My parents still live there
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    Xtrain said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    Your argument that "France would never allow it" merely proves the leavers point.
    Really? Which point precisely? If we had still been part of it, we wouldn't have allowed it either, nor the Netherlands, nor Greece, nor Poland, nor probably any of the sovereign nations that make up the 27.

    Have you written to Santa this year? By the way, if you have the cash, I have a bridge to sell you.
    This is only true if you define the "it" that won't be allowed in a very specific way. There might not be a prospect of a unitary state called Europe, but what's emerging is a state-like confederation.

    There's already a linguistic shift where people talk about it the way they would about a state, for example "travelling to the EU". This distinguishes it from the kind of vanilla multilateral organisation that you pretend it is.
    I can honestly say I have never heard anyone saying they are "travelling to the EU". I probably never will. The dreams you have been having on that road to Damascus are really quite something.
    Are you a UK citizen travelling to the EU? 🇬🇧✈️🇪🇺
    👉Check if your passport is valid for the dates you’re travelling!
    There are two conditions for holders of non-EU passports to enter the EU:
    👇


    https://twitter.com/EUdelegationUK/status/1537338731882901505

    "Travel to the EU is a privilege, not a human right."

    https://ministraspirmininkas.lrv.lt/en/news/joint-statement-of-the-prime-ministers-of-lithuania-latvia-estonia-and-poland-on-eu-visas-for-russian-citizens-travel-to-the-eu-is-a-privilege-not-a-human-right
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    That's an awful lot of words to say "come on you Tories - you can do it!".
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,788
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
    It used to be Hyacinth Bouquet and full of retired colonels (see the end of Lawrence of Arabia). Now apart from the rural bits it is mainly full of ex London yuppies, voted Remain and has a LD led Council. Though perhaps that also explains its decline.

    My parents still live there
    Does that mean they vote LD?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly @WillG and @Driver trying to defend the amount on the side of the bus is pathetic. Look you won. The side of the bus was an excellent bit of campaigning. It got Remain up in arms on the amount being inaccurate and hence just highlighted it a bit more. So job done. It's in the past. You don't need to defend it. It was a lie, just like all politicians tell and it worked. Let it go.

    The problem is that most opponents of Brexit don't treat it as just a normal piece of political campaigning but as a Goebbelsesque Big Lie that is responsible for opening the gates of hell. It's an example of them trying to delegitimise the outcome of the original referendum rather than accepting it and moving on.
    No, it's the banal bovine stupidity of it that rankles.
    If it was that banal and stupid, surely the Remain campaign should have been able to counter it effectively?
    More people than you think fall for 419 Fraud. And other fraud for that matter. Lies work because they prey on people's insecurity, fear and desire.

    Which of the three was responsible for your vote?
    Knowledge.
    OK I should have added GSOH.

    It is one of the three - for you I'm guessing (apropos of nothing in particular) insecurity. You aren't secure enough in your own opinions or your place in the world so you needed to hitch your trailer to other people's cartoon view of what that was to confirm it to you.

    amiright?
    Very wrong.

    What eventually swung it for me is the knowledge that Ever Closer Union is baked into the EU's treaties - therefore a federal United States of Europe is the aim whether we like it or not.

    I could have been persuaded that this would be a good thing, but the Remain campaign didn't even try. So I had to believe that they didn't believe it, and if they didn't then I couldn't vote Remain because this was likely to be our only chance.
    The sad thing is that most Europhobes dont even understand what "Ever Closer Union" was designed to achieve because they want to see the furriners as those dastardly men who wish to take away our FREEDOMMM.

    It is about as fictitious as Mel Gibson's William Wallace. The phrase was designed to be a fudge. Sure there are a few fanatics that would like a genuine United States of Europe, even today, but France will never allow it. It is a bogeyman that is used by crypto-fascists like Farage to scare the swivel-eyed europhobe children. You keep believing in it though if it makes you feel better about voting for self harm lol.

    By the way, Father Christmas is fighting to prevent ever closer union with the kingdom of the fairies.
    No. Once a common currency is in place the rest follows.

    Secondly, the USA shows that a single nation state can embrace real diversity. NY is not Alabama. New Jersey is not Wyoming. The EU can, and I think will, do the same over several decades.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    How can anyone be happy when Michael Fabricant is their MP?
    Thank goodness most people aren't very political, unlike most of us on here, lol.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Remainers are much happier these days.

    Brexit is widely acknowledged as a fucking disaster, and the next step is simply to clean up the mess, one way or another.

    Labour’s inevitable victory at the next election will provide the psychological permission for the country at large to have that next conversation.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    How can anyone be happy when Michael Fabricant is their MP?
    By that measure, as a constituent of Philip Davies I should be on suicide watch.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Switched on the TV News.

    Reporter: "How important is it to keep warm in these conditions?"
    Reply: "It's essential".

    Cutting edge journalism.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    That's an awful lot of words to say "come on you Tories - you can do it!".
    Thank you for supplying exhibit a to prove my argument you are not facing up to the facts here, playing the girl not the football as usual in this discussion.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Evening all :)

    A couple of wintry observations from downtown East London where we had our first decent snowfall since the last one.

    First, and make of this what you will, strange to see young and old alike out staring in wonder at the snow and the snow-covered landscape last evening. Many in my part of London originate from the Indian Sub-Continent and especially from south India and Sri Lanka where snow is unknown. The picture-taking, the sheer incredulity perhaps from those who have settled here since the last big snowfall, was a sight to behold.

    Second, the last time I looked, France was similar in population size yet its current electricity demand is nearly 82GW while the UK is at 45GW. Is there any rational explanation for this diversity in electricity demand?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Remainers are much happier these days.

    Brexit is widely acknowledged as a fucking disaster, and the next step is simply to clean up the mess, one way or another.

    Labour’s inevitable victory at the next election will provide the psychological permission for the country at large to have that next conversation.

    This is as good as it gets for Remainers. Right now we are at the tail end of a party that has been in power for a decade, meaning they are unpopular and thus things associated with them are unpopular. With a remainy Labour government the opposite effect will occur. Meanwhile automation and AI will continue to challenge the bottom half of the income distribution and the immigration debate will come back heavily.

    Also, the "widely acknowledged" only applies to establishment and Twitterati types. Among the broader public, Brexit is seen as a mild mistake.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Andy_JS said:

    Switched on the TV News.

    Reporter: "How important is it to keep warm in these conditions?"
    Reply: "It's essential".

    Cutting edge journalism.

    Hot news indeed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
    It used to be Hyacinth Bouquet and full of retired colonels (see the end of Lawrence of Arabia). Now apart from the rural bits it is mainly full of ex London yuppies, voted Remain and has a LD led Council. Though perhaps that also explains its decline.

    My parents still live there
    Does that mean they vote LD?
    Tunbridge Wells now has 16 LD councillors and just 13 Tory councillors and the vast majority of the latter are from rural wards, the town itself is almost a Tory free zone now

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_of_Tunbridge_Wells
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Switched on the TV News.

    Reporter: "How important is it to keep warm in these conditions?"
    Reply: "It's essential".

    Cutting edge journalism.

    Hot news indeed.
    It's not important. Chill, guys.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    On topic (if that's OK with you all): As of now, I think the odds are against DeSantis being the Republican nominee. I would agree that he is the current favorite, but see him as having much less than a 51 percent chance of winning the nomination.

    Biden? At least a a 95 percent chance of winning the Democratic nomination.

    (Full disclosure: DeSantis would not be my choice, anyway, for a number of reasons, among them his mishandling of Florida's reponse to COVID.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Given the snow you are having, I hope all of you who are able are at least considering taking advantage of it to do some cross country skiing.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,157
    edited December 2022
    Snow immediately connects one to childhood, somehow. The magic of everything being coated in one colour.

    I suppose this wears off in lands of continuous snow - or perhaps not - maybe life is continually more dream-like , at some level.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited December 2022

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    That's an awful lot of words to say "come on you Tories - you can do it!".
    Lot of words for a lot of reasoning. Ok I’ll bullet point it

    1. Polls definitely on the move, IF the trend continues at this rate Millbands losing position of just 10% lead will be here very soon now.

    2. Government and PM popularity strong and rising during economic and cost of living crisis, that was supposed to have sunk them.

    3. In hindsight Tories ruthless and remarkably effective in removing a leader after a month and dismantling everything her government proposed.

    4. Polls suggested one thing, but focus groups have consistently stayed with Tories.

    5. And, undeniably, as Mike persistently and politely explains, the very simple electoral facts. 125 wins away from a majority of not much. And where does a working majority come from with zero seats from Scotland?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    We are told once again we have a young side, full of potential, which can only progress. Strange, we were told that after the 2018 Semi-Final loss to Croatia and the Euro 2021 defeat to Italy. We are told we have progressed yet on most measures, we haven't.

    How has the team changed since that warm summer night at the Luzhniki Stadium in July 2018?

    Back then, the team was Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire across the back. Midfield of Lingard, Henderson, Trippier, Young and Alli and up front Kane and Sterling.

    So we played 3-5-2 that night.

    On Saturday, it was Pickford with Walker, Shaw, Stones and Maguire as the back four, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham across the middle and Kane, Foden and Saka up front in the classic 4-3-3.

    Six of the Eleven who started the 2018 Semi were in the starting line up on Saturday, four and a bit years later. In essence, the core of that team, which got so close in Russia, was in Qatar and yet we went out a round earlier.

    Yes, we went out to France and I suppose the argument will be their 2018 winning squad is broadly the core of their team but if we had potential then, why, four years later, are we still talking about potential? We had a team good enough to reach a Euro final and yet we still only have "potential".

    Perhaps the wins over Senegal and Iran (for all they are highly ranked) were illusory.

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    Could the current team have beaten Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Brazil, Argentina? We can speculate but we're short on hard evidence and our next real chance to play a Latin American country will be in 2026. Sure, we can have all the Friendlies we want but they mean nothing. Qualifying in five team groups where three of the five are cannon fodder means nothing.

    Southgate has, in my view, advanced us not a step since 2018 but I don't think he's the problem.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2022
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    In its-pre Budget report, the University of Strathclyde-based Institute says that in the face of high inflation, the UK Government’s Autumn Statement provided some comfort with additional transfers that will more or less offset the impacts of inflation over the next two years.

    The Scottish Government now needs to set out how it will use its significant devolved tax powers and whether to use them to generate more revenue for public services, including public sector workers.


    https://fraserofallander.org/budget-2023-24-scottish-finances-on-a-tightrope-but-choices-are-there-to-be-made/

  • Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    That's an awful lot of words to say "come on you Tories - you can do it!".
    Sunak has basically got core Tory voters back on board, but there's a huge difference between that and winning back swing voters.
    The Chester by-election very much indicates the polls are are right (particularly when you consider there was a below average Lab to Con swing there in 2019).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
    I care not a jot for measuring it , I just use it
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    Have to say the SNP are now worse at managing the finances than the Tories, money for anything but what is really needed. The ministers are so thick they just wreck everything they touch, it is a shocking state we are in caught between two lots of no users hosing money down the drains.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    This idea that "the trend" can be projected forward is one of the strangest in political analysis.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    To be fair, if you haven't been watching it then it's unsurprising you don't understand it!
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


    But that's what I said. Trussterfuck unwind, mega downtrend resumes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
    I care not a jot for measuring it , I just use it
    Well, you should care, because we all know energy is currently a joule beyond price.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


    But that's what I said. Trussterfuck unwind, mega downtrend resumes.
    It is also arguable that you are both wrong, and the polls have stabilised around a new normal: a hefty Labour lead - but not as big as it was Peak Trussterfeck
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    Have to say the SNP are now worse at managing the finances than the Tories, money for anything but what is really needed. The ministers are so thick they just wreck everything they touch, it is a shocking state we are in caught between two lots of no users hosing money down the drains.
    Malc, you know my opinion of the SNP and the Tories.

    But if you want really thick ministers, check out Wales.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
    I care not a jot for measuring it , I just use it
    Well, you should care, because we all know energy is currently a joule beyond price.
    To be fair to Malky, as old James Prescot knew very well, the energy spent pumping the water (and light bulbs and so on on the thingy controller) would end up as heat anyway.

    What I'm not clear about is when the c/h is actually not running - no pump, no energy consumption surely, except perhaps a little standby on the controller.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited December 2022
    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    We are told once again we have a young side, full of potential, which can only progress. Strange, we were told that after the 2018 Semi-Final loss to Croatia and the Euro 2021 defeat to Italy. We are told we have progressed yet on most measures, we haven't.

    How has the team changed since that warm summer night at the Luzhniki Stadium in July 2018?

    Back then, the team was Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire across the back. Midfield of Lingard, Henderson, Trippier, Young and Alli and up front Kane and Sterling.

    So we played 3-5-2 that night.

    On Saturday, it was Pickford with Walker, Shaw, Stones and Maguire as the back four, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham across the middle and Kane, Foden and Saka up front in the classic 4-3-3.

    Six of the Eleven who started the 2018 Semi were in the starting line up on Saturday, four and a bit years later. In essence, the core of that team, which got so close in Russia, was in Qatar and yet we went out a round earlier.

    Yes, we went out to France and I suppose the argument will be their 2018 winning squad is broadly the core of their team but if we had potential then, why, four years later, are we still talking about potential? We had a team good enough to reach a Euro final and yet we still only have "potential".

    Perhaps the wins over Senegal and Iran (for all they are highly ranked) were illusory.

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    Could the current team have beaten Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Brazil, Argentina? We can speculate but we're short on hard evidence and our next real chance to play a Latin American country will be in 2026. Sure, we can have all the Friendlies we want but they mean nothing. Qualifying in five team groups where three of the five are cannon fodder means nothing.

    Southgate has, in my view, advanced us not a step since 2018 but I don't think he's the problem.

    That’s utter rubbish, I’m afraid. I like to think I know a bit about football and I don’t care all that much about England losing, so I think I’m fairly impartial.

    In my opinion, England were very lucky with the draw in 2018. They struggled to beat Tunisia, scraped through on penalties against Columbia and lost three times.

    This time, they had the best record in the group stages and were unlucky with refereeing decisions in the quarter final against a very good France team.

    You accurately describe the problem of assessing international football. But it isn’t going to change. In fact, it’s likely to get worse with it being knockout from round of 32 next time.

    Saka, Foden and Bellingham are on another level to Lingard and Alli. England have a bright future, though Kane will be pushing 33 in 2026. My one downer is that this may have been their big chance. The conditions were ideal (warm, but not outrageously hot). The 2026 tournament could be awful, especially if they are playing in the middle of the day for European TV. But Euro 24 in Germany before then, so that’s probably a better chance.

  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    Leon said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


    But that's what I said. Trussterfuck unwind, mega downtrend resumes.
    It is also arguable that you are both wrong, and the polls have stabilised around a new normal: a hefty Labour lead - but not as big as it was Peak Trussterfeck
    But that's what I said. Most recent poll Baxters to a landslide, and the truss rebound is over.
  • Was -10 here this morning. Not at 3am, when we were getting the kids off to school. Forecast for tonight is even colder. We've had very little snow, but the cold is brutal. Most of the day the thermostat is turned down, and the heating comes on anyway because its that sodding cold. last tank of oil was £1,400...
  • This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876


    Lot of words for a lot of reasoning. Ok I’ll bullet point it

    1. Polls definitely on the move, IF the trend continues at this rate Millbands losing position of just 10% lead will be here very soon now.

    2. Government and PM popularity strong and rising during economic and cost of living crisis, that was supposed to have sunk them.

    3. In hindsight Tories ruthless and remarkably effective in removing a leader after a month and dismantling everything her government proposed.

    4. Polls suggested one thing, but focus groups have consistently stayed with Tories.

    5. And, undeniably, as Mike persistently and politely explains, the very simple electoral facts. 125 wins away from a majority of not much. And where does a working majority come from with zero seats from Scotland?

    I suspected the Redfield & Wilton poll might have encouraged some of the more pro-Conservative posters.

    To pick up the bullet points:

    1. To an extent. There's some herding going on and a consolidation around a 15-point Labour lead. We'll see if this continues. Sunak's low profile is probably a wise move but that can't be sustained.

    2. "Strong" is overstating it a bit. Sunak's figures are okay but the Government itself remains deeply unpopular. Last figures I saw had the Conservatives ahead on Ukraine but well behind on everything else.

    3. "Ruthless and remarkably effective" translates as panic. Everyone could see where a Truss/Kwarteng Government was going - to be fair, the Conservatives removed the equally inept IDS in 2003. The Party has a first class degree in self preservation.

    4. I'd like to see some evidence of this. I do accept a lot of 2019 Conservative voters went or have gone into the "Don't Know" column but at least 20% have gone straight to Labour. I presume the theory is every Reform supporter will run back to the Conservatives as soon as an election is called.

    5. That's the hardest hurdle for Labour to overcome but the evidence is a significant proportion of Labour and LD voters will vote tactically to defeat an incumbent Conservative. Between that, a drift to Reform and abstention, I think 100 or more losses in England is quite possible and that would be enough.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Was -10 here this morning. Not at 3am, when we were getting the kids off to school. Forecast for tonight is even colder. We've had very little snow, but the cold is brutal. Most of the day the thermostat is turned down, and the heating comes on anyway because its that sodding cold. last tank of oil was £1,400...

    Utterly perishing in London
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
    I care not a jot for measuring it , I just use it
    Well, you should care, because we all know energy is currently a joule beyond price.
    pun tastic
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Driver said:

    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    To be fair, if you haven't been watching it then it's unsurprising you don't understand it!
    To be equally fair, I've not watched an England game live. It's a little tradition I have based on England winning when I don't watch. I've watched many of the other matches live.
  • Leon said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


    But that's what I said. Trussterfuck unwind, mega downtrend resumes.
    It is also arguable that you are both wrong, and the polls have stabilised around a new normal: a hefty Labour lead - but not as big as it was Peak Trussterfeck
    Pretty much my take on the graph. The interesting thing is what happens next. Something to further improve the Conservative standing? (If so, what?) Or the ongoing slow shedding of support that doesn't show up well in weekly polls but is the almost inevitable lot of a newish PM?

    Don't make me get out that graph of how PM favourability falls over time, it's too depressing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    Have to say the SNP are now worse at managing the finances than the Tories, money for anything but what is really needed. The ministers are so thick they just wreck everything they touch, it is a shocking state we are in caught between two lots of no users hosing money down the drains.
    Malc, you know my opinion of the SNP and the Tories.

    But if you want really thick ministers, check out Wales.
    Must be only place in the world where it is a competition to see who can get the dumbest clucks running the country
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Leon said:

    Was -10 here this morning. Not at 3am, when we were getting the kids off to school. Forecast for tonight is even colder. We've had very little snow, but the cold is brutal. Most of the day the thermostat is turned down, and the heating comes on anyway because its that sodding cold. last tank of oil was £1,400...

    Utterly perishing in London
    Geordies thinking about wearing long sleeve shirts.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,788
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
    It used to be Hyacinth Bouquet and full of retired colonels (see the end of Lawrence of Arabia). Now apart from the rural bits it is mainly full of ex London yuppies, voted Remain and has a LD led Council. Though perhaps that also explains its decline.

    My parents still live there
    Does that mean they vote LD?
    Tunbridge Wells now has 16 LD councillors and just 13 Tory councillors and the vast majority of the latter are from rural wards, the town itself is almost a Tory free zone now

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_of_Tunbridge_Wells
    What about your mum and dad though? 😮
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Leon said:

    Was -10 here this morning. Not at 3am, when we were getting the kids off to school. Forecast for tonight is even colder. We've had very little snow, but the cold is brutal. Most of the day the thermostat is turned down, and the heating comes on anyway because its that sodding cold. last tank of oil was £1,400...

    Utterly perishing in London
    Geordies thinking about wearing long sleeve shirts.
    And skirts below the knee, presumably.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I saw some chat on the previous thread about the energy saving slots. Just wanted to point out that turning your gas heating off doesn't really help as they're only measuring the leccy usage.

    Gas central heating requires electricity to power the pump among other things. Switching the gas heating off seems to reduce our total electricity consumption by around 100W.
    I would not get out of my chair to save 100 watts
    Out of interest, how did you manage to measure the energy you're saving by not getting out of your chair?
    I care not a jot for measuring it , I just use it
    Well, you should care, because we all know energy is currently a joule beyond price.
    To be fair to Malky, as old James Prescot knew very well, the energy spent pumping the water (and light bulbs and so on on the thingy controller) would end up as heat anyway.

    What I'm not clear about is when the c/h is actually not running - no pump, no energy consumption surely, except perhaps a little standby on the controller.
    must be very minimal, the odd led or two
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    Have to say the SNP are now worse at managing the finances than the Tories, money for anything but what is really needed. The ministers are so thick they just wreck everything they touch, it is a shocking state we are in caught between two lots of no users hosing money down the drains.
    Malc, you know my opinion of the SNP and the Tories.

    But if you want really thick ministers, check out Wales.
    Must be only place in the world where it is a competition to see who can get the dumbest clucks running the country
    Brazil says hello...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    For those who care about decent science posting on Twitter, this is a big deal.
    He’s not the first, and won’t be the last, but one of the better ones.

    I won’t bury the lede here: I’m leaving Twitter, as of later today.
    https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/1602307503752187906
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    tlg86 said:

    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    We are told once again we have a young side, full of potential, which can only progress. Strange, we were told that after the 2018 Semi-Final loss to Croatia and the Euro 2021 defeat to Italy. We are told we have progressed yet on most measures, we haven't.

    How has the team changed since that warm summer night at the Luzhniki Stadium in July 2018?

    Back then, the team was Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire across the back. Midfield of Lingard, Henderson, Trippier, Young and Alli and up front Kane and Sterling.

    So we played 3-5-2 that night.

    On Saturday, it was Pickford with Walker, Shaw, Stones and Maguire as the back four, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham across the middle and Kane, Foden and Saka up front in the classic 4-3-3.

    Six of the Eleven who started the 2018 Semi were in the starting line up on Saturday, four and a bit years later. In essence, the core of that team, which got so close in Russia, was in Qatar and yet we went out a round earlier.

    Yes, we went out to France and I suppose the argument will be their 2018 winning squad is broadly the core of their team but if we had potential then, why, four years later, are we still talking about potential? We had a team good enough to reach a Euro final and yet we still only have "potential".

    Perhaps the wins over Senegal and Iran (for all they are highly ranked) were illusory.

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    Could the current team have beaten Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Brazil, Argentina? We can speculate but we're short on hard evidence and our next real chance to play a Latin American country will be in 2026. Sure, we can have all the Friendlies we want but they mean nothing. Qualifying in five team groups where three of the five are cannon fodder means nothing.

    Southgate has, in my view, advanced us not a step since 2018 but I don't think he's the problem.

    That’s utter rubbish, I’m afraid. I like to think I know a bit about football and I don’t care all that much about England losing, so I think I’m fairly impartial.

    In my opinion, England were very lucky with the draw in 2018. They struggled to beat Tunisia, scraped through on penalties against Columbia and lost three times.

    This time, they had the best record in the group stages and were unlucky with refereeing decisions in the quarter final against a very good France team.

    You accurately describe the problem of assessing international football. But it isn’t going to change. In fact, it’s likely to get worse with it being knockout from round of 32 next time.

    Saka, Foden and Bellingham are on another level to Lingard and Alli. England have a bright future, though Kane will be pushing 33 in 2026. My one downer is that this may have been their big chance. The conditions were ideal (warm, but not outrageously hot). The 2026 tournament could be awful, especially if they are playing in the middle of the day for European TV. But Euro 24 in Germany before then, so that’s probably a better chance.

    Agree with all of this except the "lost three times" thing for 2018. You can't count the glorified friendly the losing semi finalists have to play.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    I’ve just made this for you. Sept 21 up to today. Clear and relentless Trussterfuck unwind.


    I really don't understand what you're getting at. Absolutely everybody thought the Trussterfuck would unwind. Absolutely nobody thought that 30 point Labour leads were sustainable. Absolutely everybody thought that Sunak would provide enough stability to win some Tories back.
    But the Labour lead remains high.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited December 2022
    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    We are told once again we have a young side, full of potential, which can only progress. Strange, we were told that after the 2018 Semi-Final loss to Croatia and the Euro 2021 defeat to Italy. We are told we have progressed yet on most measures, we haven't.

    How has the team changed since that warm summer night at the Luzhniki Stadium in July 2018?

    Back then, the team was Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire across the back. Midfield of Lingard, Henderson, Trippier, Young and Alli and up front Kane and Sterling.

    So we played 3-5-2 that night.

    On Saturday, it was Pickford with Walker, Shaw, Stones and Maguire as the back four, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham across the middle and Kane, Foden and Saka up front in the classic 4-3-3.

    Six of the Eleven who started the 2018 Semi were in the starting line up on Saturday, four and a bit years later. In essence, the core of that team, which got so close in Russia, was in Qatar and yet we went out a round earlier.

    Yes, we went out to France and I suppose the argument will be their 2018 winning squad is broadly the core of their team but if we had potential then, why, four years later, are we still talking about potential? We had a team good enough to reach a Euro final and yet we still only have "potential".

    Perhaps the wins over Senegal and Iran (for all they are highly ranked) were illusory.

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    Could the current team have beaten Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Brazil, Argentina? We can speculate but we're short on hard evidence and our next real chance to play a Latin American country will be in 2026. Sure, we can have all the Friendlies we want but they mean nothing. Qualifying in five team groups where three of the five are cannon fodder means nothing.

    Southgate has, in my view, advanced us not aep since 2018 but I don't think he's the problem.

    Never listen to pundits. They know less that sfa. Full of bullshit. Opinions are like arses, everyone's got one.
  • This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
    There are other ways to generate heat...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happiest places:

    Torridge (Devon)
    Hambleton (North Yorkshire)
    Pendle (Lancs)
    Lichfield (Staffs)

    Unhappiest places:

    Colchester
    Tunbridge Wells
    Lambeth
    Redditch
    Norwich

    https://news.sky.com/story/colchester-redditch-and-tunbridge-wells-are-uks-unhappiest-areas-according-to-survey-12762111

    Complete rubbish, I grew up in Tunbridge Wells and the idea I would have been happier growing up in Slough or or Rotherham is ludicrous.

    It was also named Which magazine's best town only last year. Along with Colchester it also has some of the best state schools in the country
    Friend of mine used to live there, and was not impressed by it. Far too Hyacinth Bouquet for his taste, apparently. I take Which and I was surprised by your statement, as it would have triggered a double take at the time. I looked it up. It's a few places from the bottom of the Which Magazine, best town in the UK survey 2021 (= your "last year"): below Fort William, even.

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-destinations/article/the-uks-best-towns-and-villages-aGr5B0m5L2qW#the-bestrated-town-or-village-in-the-uk-avebury-wiltshire-90

    Edit: you forgot the "Royal" bit in front of "Tunbridge Wells". My friend's mum was very insistent on that.
    It used to be Hyacinth Bouquet and full of retired colonels (see the end of Lawrence of Arabia). Now apart from the rural bits it is mainly full of ex London yuppies, voted Remain and has a LD led Council. Though perhaps that also explains its decline.

    My parents still live there
    Does that mean they vote LD?
    Tunbridge Wells now has 16 LD councillors and just 13 Tory councillors and the vast majority of the latter are from rural wards, the town itself is almost a Tory free zone now

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_of_Tunbridge_Wells
    What about your mum and dad though? 😮
    Still Leave voting Tories (though my father occasionally votes LD locally).

    If it was not for the outlying villages I think Tunbridge Wells would go LD at the next general election. Tunbridge Wells is the LDs 44th target seat and if Greg Clark holds on it will only be because of the rural parts of the constituency, the town itself is now gone for the blues.

    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    Driver said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    This idea that "the trend" can be projected forward is one of the strangest in political analysis.
    Confusing to the confusion-susceptible, sure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63947246

    "Two NHS Scotland unions accept 7.5% pay deal

    Members of two major NHS unions in Scotland have voted to accept an improved pay offer.

    This ends the risk of strike action in the health service by members of Unison and Unite but a ballot of Royal College of Nursing members is still under way.

    An improved pay offer averaging 7.5% was made to health workers threatening industrial action last month."

    I'm old enough to remembewr when PB Tories thought that the SG not reaching pay agreements promptly to stop/halt public sector strikes was SNP BAAAAD.

    For some reason, the logic does not seem to apply south of Lamberton Toll.
    Bit of a concern as to how they will fund it given the state of the finances, big tax hikes coming up.
    Depends also what happens in Westminster/Whitehall (Barnett and all that), obviously.
    Have to say the SNP are now worse at managing the finances than the Tories, money for anything but what is really needed. The ministers are so thick they just wreck everything they touch, it is a shocking state we are in caught between two lots of no users hosing money down the drains.
    Malc, you know my opinion of the SNP and the Tories.

    But if you want really thick ministers, check out Wales.
    Must be only place in the world where it is a competition to see who can get the dumbest clucks running the country
    That strikes me as wildly optimistic.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    tlg86 said:

    <
    That’s utter rubbish, I’m afraid. I like to think I know a bit about football and I don’t care all that much about England losing, so I think I’m fairly impartial.

    In my opinion, England were very lucky with the draw in 2018. They struggled to beat Tunisia, scraped through on penalties against Columbia and lost three times.

    This time, they had the best record in the group stages and were unlucky with refereeing decisions in the quarter final against a very good France team.

    You accurately describe the problem of assessing international football. But it isn’t going to change. In fact, it’s likely to get worse with it being knockout from round of 32 next time.

    Saka, Foden and Bellingham are on another level to Lingard and Alli. England have a bright future, though Kane will be pushing 33 in 2026. My one downer is that this may have been their big chance. The conditions were ideal (warm, but not outrageously hot). The 2026 tournament could be awful, especially if they are playing in the middle of the day for European TV. But Euro 24 in Germany before then, so that’s probably a better chance.

    Perhaps it's my frustration but I'd forgotten about 2018. Yes, we were very fortunate that time in the way the cards dropped for us. We wouldn't have beaten France in the Final even if we had got there.

    As for this time, I think many of the analysts knew the QF against France was a) the most likely scenario and b) going to be the real test. I'm also reminded like Argentina they were humiliated in their first match but have improved as the tournament progressed. It's a marathon not a sprint.

    As for Harry Kane, Giroud is 36 and he still managed to deliver when it mattered. My colleague at work thought France were in third gear for most of the match and would have overrun us in extra time.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    stodge said:

    ...

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    ...

    This is the same for every other team of course, although the Nation's League has made the situation quite a lot better in that respect. So I don't think it can explain specific English underperformance.

    Some people will tell you that Southgate didn't play England's best players enough. Might be true. I tend to think that England simply don't have a player of the quality of an Mbappe, Messi, Modric, et al.

    That doesn't mean we can't win. It doesn't mean we might not have done better with different choices. It does mean that we shouldn't be too surprised that we went out to the holders who have arguably the form player of the tournament in Mbappe.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    stodge said:

    Now, for a rant which has bothered me all day.

    Football, which I can now start watching with England no longer involved.

    We are told once again we have a young side, full of potential, which can only progress. Strange, we were told that after the 2018 Semi-Final loss to Croatia and the Euro 2021 defeat to Italy. We are told we have progressed yet on most measures, we haven't.

    How has the team changed since that warm summer night at the Luzhniki Stadium in July 2018?

    Back then, the team was Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire across the back. Midfield of Lingard, Henderson, Trippier, Young and Alli and up front Kane and Sterling.

    So we played 3-5-2 that night.

    On Saturday, it was Pickford with Walker, Shaw, Stones and Maguire as the back four, Rice, Henderson and Bellingham across the middle and Kane, Foden and Saka up front in the classic 4-3-3.

    Six of the Eleven who started the 2018 Semi were in the starting line up on Saturday, four and a bit years later. In essence, the core of that team, which got so close in Russia, was in Qatar and yet we went out a round earlier.

    Yes, we went out to France and I suppose the argument will be their 2018 winning squad is broadly the core of their team but if we had potential then, why, four years later, are we still talking about potential? We had a team good enough to reach a Euro final and yet we still only have "potential".

    Perhaps the wins over Senegal and Iran (for all they are highly ranked) were illusory.

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    Could the current team have beaten Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Brazil, Argentina? We can speculate but we're short on hard evidence and our next real chance to play a Latin American country will be in 2026. Sure, we can have all the Friendlies we want but they mean nothing. Qualifying in five team groups where three of the five are cannon fodder means nothing.

    Southgate has, in my view, advanced us not aep since 2018 but I don't think he's the problem.

    Never listen to pundits. They know less that sfa. Full of bullshit. Opinions are like arses, everyone's got one.
    Still can't quite get my head around "not advanced us since 2018". Even ignoring the problem that the starting point is losing to Iceland in 2016...

    2018: no surprise to lose to Croatia
    2021: quite lucky to go to penalties against Italy
    2022: very unlucky not to beat France (the best team in the tournament)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Was -10 here this morning. Not at 3am, when we were getting the kids off to school. Forecast for tonight is even colder. We've had very little snow, but the cold is brutal. Most of the day the thermostat is turned down, and the heating comes on anyway because its that sodding cold. last tank of oil was £1,400...

    Utterly perishing in London
    Geordies thinking about wearing long sleeve shirts.
    And skirts below the knee, presumably.
    Never!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Brexit, interesting to think that before the unfulfilled ghost of Grexit, no-one would have thought of such a term.

    Now the hard cadences, which sound more saxon than latinate, of "Brexiters", conjure up John Bull.

    Brexiteer: Google Hits: 659,000

    Brexiter: Google Hits: 85,000

    It's BrexitEER. Those who say BrexitER come across as bitterly twisted Remoaners
    Brexiteer, ofcourse , more self-serving and Romantic. Sir Nigel Farage with a huge elizabethan moustache-beard, Francis Drake-style.
    The Brexiteers really won the lexical game

    See also "Remain" and "Remainers", boring and crabbed and cowardly, and with an unpleasant hint of "human remains". Basic fail. Should have gone with the warm, friendly, hospitable STAY. Stay a while for another dram! Awww
    I disagree. Leavers should never have allowed themselves to be called Brexiteers (we didn't I suppose), while remain has a 'safe' feeling. This impression has stuck - post-Brexit Government has kept a reputation for being erratic and cavalier (much of it deserved), and the notion of 'remain' remains (hehe) safe and secure feeling. Of course its bullshit. The EU isn't recession insurance. They can't even get vaccines made in a timely fashion. However, stick it has.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    M45 said:

    M45 said:

    Driver said:

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -3%.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (11 December):

    Disapprove: 33% (–)
    Approve: 30% (–)
    Net: -3% (–)

    Changes +/- 4 December

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-11-december-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1602350122142208003/photo/1

    So that would be no change while the party is up 3 and Labour down 2.
    There isn't usually a strong relationship between intra-poll changes in leader ratings and VI in mid-term. In fact, we always used to be told to look in mid-term at leader ratings as more predictive of the ensuing GE than VI.

    Whether this will hold or not this time is a matter of opinion, but -3 in the circumstances looks surprisingly strong for Sunak. Still an awful lot of undecideds, though.
    A lot of remainers and Labour supporters have had enough of Tories at the moment, and can’t face the idea the electorate who gave the Tories a landslide may not have have had enough of the Tories yet, making the next election a close run nail biter. Worse - the Trussterfuck in the polls led this herd to believe a change of government was nailed on already, 2 years out from voting, they believed there had been a “sea change” and the Trussterfuck polls would take 12 years to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    But back in the real world it’s looking like the Trussterfuck polls will take 12 weeks to unwind back to 6 or 7 % Labour leads.

    What it’s done has made Labour rampers opinions on polling and the next election irrelevant now, until such time they accept over the last two weeks the Tories are going up in the polls, Labour down, on many it’s dramatic very shifts on the recent polls from each firm, and all because the the Sunak and his government are becoming POPULAR during COL crisis and the next election becoming a tight if Tories can be prized from government or not.

    The mistake PBs Labour herd have is two fold, they looked at polls but ignored focus groups, in focus groups the voters like the Tories, see experience and leadership in the current government and not from Labour. Even though Labour 20+ 30+ leads were a short lived thing this year, they ignored the truth it has so quickly been falling from 30, to 20, and heading towards 10 and single digits again. Some of us tried to point out, yes your feet are currently dry, but your boat is sinking, but they just piled on these innocent posters with their certain landslide majority nonsense.

    Worse - when Mike explained how Blair had working majorities with 40+ seats from Scotland, how do you get working majorities with zero seats from Scotland, they called him wrong and not listening - which was painful and embarrassing to read.

    It’s time for the Labour herd on here to apologise now to all those who merely tried to point out electoral facts and direction of travel in the polls to them.

    The Trussterfuck polling that supposed to take 12 years to unwind will be unwound in about 12 weeks, because the Tories have been cute, ruthless to dump a leader after just a month, for a leader the MPs support so not going to the membership, and then dismantle all her policy agenda and budget in record time. Like the French football team, the Tories have “the killer instinct”, this Labour Party hasn’t.
    There's been a lull, sure, 40 days since the last ministerial resignation and rising. But we're all distracted by Christmas and the footie. PB lefties have their biases but so do you

    What do current polls Baxter to?
    We can both agree the fact is your feet are currently dry, but do you accept the fact the boat is sinking, or are you still not properly paying attention like I am?
    Drunkards walk innit? Why assume the vessel sinks indefinitely rather than stabilises or starts to rise again? My picture is the trend line is downwards from Paterson onwards, with a subsidiary downtick from truss which was always going to correct itself back to the, still downwards, trend.
    This idea that "the trend" can be projected forward is one of the strangest in political analysis.
    Confusing to the confusion-susceptible, sure.
    It's not confusing, just illogical.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    PM does fusion; FLF interview around 5:27
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001g2yf
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
    Well, don't go charity collecting then. Sorry, but I really, really hate people like you. I whack a reasonable bit of wedge out by monthly standing order to sort out blindness in Africa and hunger in various places, but I am buggered if I am explaining that to a door knocking nuisance when I am trying to watch the telly, so Feck off before I rip your lungs out is my polite and measured response.

    Unless it's cats or lifeboats. Then it's straight to the baseball bat.
  • This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
    There are other ways to generate heat...
    One of those curious but surprisingly common situations where the midpoint (some but not enormous clothing) is much less effective (at staying warm) than either extreme.

    Let observers of the post-Brexit debate understand...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    stodge said:

    ...

    I think the problem is we don't play serious sides in serious competition often enough. Thrashings of Malta, North Macedonia, San Marino and Gibraltar may make us all feel good about ourselves but they tell you nothing about how a team will perform against decent opponents who, man for man, may be better than you.

    ...

    This is the same for every other team of course, although the Nation's League has made the situation quite a lot better in that respect. So I don't think it can explain specific English underperformance.

    Some people will tell you that Southgate didn't play England's best players enough. Might be true. I tend to think that England simply don't have a player of the quality of an Mbappe, Messi, Modric, et al.

    That doesn't mean we can't win. It doesn't mean we might not have done better with different choices. It does mean that we shouldn't be too surprised that we went out to the holders who have arguably the form player of the tournament in Mbappe.
    Meanwhile 90% of the country is blithely unaware that right now we have one of the greatest teams in the history of cricket. And the World Cup holders
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
    There are other ways to generate heat...
    Mrs Santa might get upset…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    M45 said:

    This cold snap is going to brutalise people's finances. Not good for Tory prospects.

    Interesting (to me at least) observation. I was out charity collecting last night. It definitely seems more house we’re colder than in previous years. Not unseated, but not running at 25 deg C, which is often something we encounter. Lots of families in a lot of clothing too.
    But not all. At least one young mum came to the door in skimpy silk shorts and a vest in an obviously warm house. Poor Santa didn’t know where to look…
    Well, don't go charity collecting then. Sorry, but I really, really hate people like you. I whack a reasonable bit of wedge out by monthly standing order to sort out blindness in Africa and hunger in various places, but I am buggered if I am explaining that to a door knocking nuisance when I am trying to watch the telly, so Feck off before I rip your lungs out is my polite and measured response.

    Unless it's cats or lifeboats. Then it's straight to the baseball bat.
    Why? What's your beef with lifeboats?
This discussion has been closed.