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LAB now odds-on in the betting to win a majority – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited December 2022 in General
imageLAB now odds-on in the betting to win a majority – politicalbetting.com

The chart shows how things have moved in the past 12-months in the next general election betting market. As can be seen LAB has moved up for a 16% chance to a 51% chance now while the Tories have moved from 35% to 11%.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297
    Vs 2019, Labour are polling 6 points higher, Tories are polling 12 points lower, SNP are polling 6 points higher.
    Not sure how it will shake out, but I feel like it's got to be possible that the pro-union votes aggregates on Labour and they end up with a few more seats than previously?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    edited December 2022
    Hove result in classic Tory ward:

    #Hove Wish by-election
    Patricia Mountain – UK Independence Party - 34
    Peter Revell – Conservative - 756
    Bella Sankey – Labour - 1,519
    Stewart Stone – Liberal Democrat - 96
    Ollie Sykes – Green - 190

    Labour 58% vs 34% last time.
  • DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    rkrkrk said:

    Vs 2019, Labour are polling 6 points higher, Tories are polling 12 points lower, SNP are polling 6 points higher.
    Not sure how it will shake out, but I feel like it's got to be possible that the pro-union votes aggregates on Labour and they end up with a few more seats than previously?

    I think that is likely. Also the SNP seem to have got a boost from the SC decision (which is not a surprise in itself) but are really running short of ideas about where to go next. At one time Nicola called the idea of using an election in this way "a Unionist trap". I suspect that there are a lot more comments from the past that can be dug out to a similar effect.

    There is a reasonable chance that come the next election the SNP, whilst still having a strong plurality, will not be near their current peak, especially if it looks like Labour might be heading for a majority.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    If you were not in No 10 before, and now you are, that is a win.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    FPT
    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    A win is a win. Ardern wasn't even leading the largest party in her first win, but things worked out and then she got a proper win later.

    Labour shouldn't be able to manage a majority being so far behind, but it is not a very realistic goal, and not a failure if they fall just short but can take control.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2022
    Seattle Times ($) - First-ever recorded moose sighting in Mount Rainier National Park

    s that a plane? A bird? … No, it’s a moose!

    Mount Rainier National Park recorded its first-ever moose sighting on Thursday. This is also the first-ever moose sighting in southwest Washington, the National Park Service said.

    https://twitter.com/MountRainierNPS/status/1600992620062318595?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1600992620062318595|twgr^0f073b929669a562a559a6dae9b78dc68c01ba3e|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.seattletimes.com/life/outdoors/first-ever-recorded-moose-sighting-in-mount-rainier-national-park/

    The last recorded moose sighting in the region was just west of Stevens Pass in 2009, according to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

    In August, the Washington State Department of Transportation spotted a moose on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek, which is just southwest of Snoqualmie Pass. Another sighting was recorded in the same area in September, the WDFW said.

    “Could this be same moose recently observed on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek?” the park service said on Twitter in reference to the August sighting.

    As of 2015, there were an estimated 5,000 moose living in Washington state, according to the WDFW. Washington moose belong to a subspecies called Shiras moose. The majority of Washington’s moose live in the Selkirk Mountains in northeast Washington (Pend Oreille, Stevens, Ferry and Spokane counties) with smaller populations in the North Cascades, Okanogan and the Blue Mountains of southeast Washington.

    If you ever spot a moose, here are some tips from the WDFW for preventing conflicts:

    > Never feed moose: Moose that are fed by people often become aggressive when they are not fed as expected. They may attack another person who has no food to offer.

    > Do not approach any moose: Even if moose seem quiet and gentle, they can change their disposition rather quickly. Moose often lie down in the shade of buildings and trees to rest and cool down. If approached repeatedly, even by the best-intentioned onlookers, a moose might become stressed and aggressive.

    > Keep dogs under control and away from moose: Moose consider dogs, which are close relatives of wolves, to be a direct threat. Moose have been known to go out of their way to kick at a dog, even one on a leash or in a fenced yard.

    SSI - My own personal strategy, should I come face-to-face with a moose, would be to convey my lifelong love for Bullwinkle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwinkle_J._Moose
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    A win is a win. Ardern wasn't even leading the largest party in her first win, but things worked out and then she got a proper win later.

    Labour shouldn't be able to manage a majority being so far behind, but it is not a very realistic goal, and not a failure if they fall just short but can take control.
    The fear is a 1992 redux. Surely the Tories are so broken that we won't see such a repetition. Although to a degree there would be some poetic justice in the Tories running the country into the ground with an expectation of a Labour win, and yet finding the gravy train rolls on for them regardless.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    If you were not in No 10 before, and now you are, that is a win.
    Exactly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Seattle Times ($) - First-ever recorded moose sighting in Mount Rainier National Park

    s that a plane? A bird? … No, it’s a moose!

    Mount Rainier National Park recorded its first-ever moose sighting on Thursday. This is also the first-ever moose sighting in southwest Washington, the National Park Service said.

    https://twitter.com/MountRainierNPS/status/1600992620062318595?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1600992620062318595|twgr^0f073b929669a562a559a6dae9b78dc68c01ba3e|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.seattletimes.com/life/outdoors/first-ever-recorded-moose-sighting-in-mount-rainier-national-park/

    The last recorded moose sighting in the region was just west of Stevens Pass in 2009, according to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

    In August, the Washington State Department of Transportation spotted a moose on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek, which is just southwest of Snoqualmie Pass. Another sighting was recorded in the same area in September, the WDFW said.

    “Could this be same moose recently observed on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek?” the park service said on Twitter in reference to the August sighting.

    As of 2015, there were an estimated 5,000 moose living in Washington state, according to the WDFW. Washington moose belong to a subspecies called Shiras moose. The majority of Washington’s moose live in the Selkirk Mountains in northeast Washington (Pend Oreille, Stevens, Ferry and Spokane counties) with smaller populations in the North Cascades, Okanogan and the Blue Mountains of southeast Washington.

    If you ever spot a moose, here are some tips from the WDFW for preventing conflicts:

    > Never feed moose: Moose that are fed by people often become aggressive when they are not fed as expected. They may attack another person who has no food to offer.

    > Do not approach any moose: Even if moose seem quiet and gentle, they can change their disposition rather quickly. Moose often lie down in the shade of buildings and trees to rest and cool down. If approached repeatedly, even by the best-intentioned onlookers, a moose might become stressed and aggressive.

    > Keep dogs under control and away from moose: Moose consider dogs, which are close relatives of wolves, to be a direct threat. Moose have been known to go out of their way to kick at a dog, even one on a leash or in a fenced yard.

    SSI - My own personal strategy, should I come face-to-face with a moose, would be to convey my lifelong love for Bullwinkle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwinkle_J._Moose

    There is a Moose loose aboot this hoose.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Probably worth laying as a trading bet, but I wouldn't want to be sitting on it come 2024
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    If you were not in No 10 before, and now you are, that is a win.
    Provided (a) that's all you care about, or (b) you can do something with it. Cameron in 2010 had a clear economic direction which got a plurality of votes and seats, so the Lib Dems couldn't realistically oppose it in coalition negotiations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    I'm a big fan of pragmatism and reasonableness. I have an ingrained suspicion about ideological projects. But even so you do need some vision and backbone.

    There has been a notable drop in drama, true, though after the last 5 months that's not hard.

    He passed Truss's tenure on Wednesday.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    Or vote Labour to continue national decline...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    M45 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
    I can think of quite a few things wrong with civil service procurement, but none that are improved by having access via a chum who is a politician.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Driver said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    Or vote Labour to continue national decline...
    Surely accelerate?
  • DavidL said:

    Seattle Times ($) - First-ever recorded moose sighting in Mount Rainier National Park

    s that a plane? A bird? … No, it’s a moose!

    Mount Rainier National Park recorded its first-ever moose sighting on Thursday. This is also the first-ever moose sighting in southwest Washington, the National Park Service said.

    https://twitter.com/MountRainierNPS/status/1600992620062318595?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1600992620062318595|twgr^0f073b929669a562a559a6dae9b78dc68c01ba3e|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.seattletimes.com/life/outdoors/first-ever-recorded-moose-sighting-in-mount-rainier-national-park/

    The last recorded moose sighting in the region was just west of Stevens Pass in 2009, according to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

    In August, the Washington State Department of Transportation spotted a moose on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek, which is just southwest of Snoqualmie Pass. Another sighting was recorded in the same area in September, the WDFW said.

    “Could this be same moose recently observed on the I-90 wildlife undercrossing at Resort Creek?” the park service said on Twitter in reference to the August sighting.

    As of 2015, there were an estimated 5,000 moose living in Washington state, according to the WDFW. Washington moose belong to a subspecies called Shiras moose. The majority of Washington’s moose live in the Selkirk Mountains in northeast Washington (Pend Oreille, Stevens, Ferry and Spokane counties) with smaller populations in the North Cascades, Okanogan and the Blue Mountains of southeast Washington.

    If you ever spot a moose, here are some tips from the WDFW for preventing conflicts:

    > Never feed moose: Moose that are fed by people often become aggressive when they are not fed as expected. They may attack another person who has no food to offer.

    > Do not approach any moose: Even if moose seem quiet and gentle, they can change their disposition rather quickly. Moose often lie down in the shade of buildings and trees to rest and cool down. If approached repeatedly, even by the best-intentioned onlookers, a moose might become stressed and aggressive.

    > Keep dogs under control and away from moose: Moose consider dogs, which are close relatives of wolves, to be a direct threat. Moose have been known to go out of their way to kick at a dog, even one on a leash or in a fenced yard.

    SSI - My own personal strategy, should I come face-to-face with a moose, would be to convey my lifelong love for Bullwinkle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwinkle_J._Moose

    There is a Moose loose aboot this hoose.
    Suggest that you pay a visit at your earliest opportunity to Frostbite Falls, Minnesota.

    Here it's lovely this time of year - PROVIDED you bring along your thermal underwear!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Hove result in classic Tory ward:

    #Hove Wish by-election
    Patricia Mountain – UK Independence Party - 34
    Peter Revell – Conservative - 756
    Bella Sankey – Labour - 1,519
    Stewart Stone – Liberal Democrat - 96
    Ollie Sykes – Green - 190

    Labour 58% vs 34% last time.

    UKIP are still bothering to stand in elections?!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Brazil not looking quite so much like world beaters today.
  • DavidL said:

    Brazil not looking quite so much like world beaters today.

    It’s coming home.

    It really is.

    I mean Brazil is the home of the most World Cup wins.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    kle4 said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    I'm a big fan of pragmatism and reasonableness. I have an ingrained suspicion about ideological projects. But even so you do need some vision and backbone.

    There has been a notable drop in drama, true, though after the last 5 months that's not hard.

    He passed Truss's tenure on Wednesday.
    That's supposed to be 'passes' not 'passed'.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    kle4 said:

    Hove result in classic Tory ward:

    #Hove Wish by-election
    Patricia Mountain – UK Independence Party - 34
    Peter Revell – Conservative - 756
    Bella Sankey – Labour - 1,519
    Stewart Stone – Liberal Democrat - 96
    Ollie Sykes – Green - 190

    Labour 58% vs 34% last time.

    UKIP are still bothering to stand in elections?!
    They had a Mountain to climb in this ward though.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    FPT: re. Michelle Mone:

    1. Iain Duncan Smith can't half pick them! First there was Dominic Cummings; then there was Michelle Mone.

    2. Here is Mone's "Be the boss" review, published in 2016.
    Here's a government blurb about it.
    Sajid Javid loved it.
    Iain Duncan Smith loved it.
    But guess who really loved it. The Prince's Trust loved it to bits!

    3. She already had an OBE by then - for services to the lingerie industry.
    She had a record flogging weight loss pills too. (She claimed she lost 6 stone by taking them.)

    How did this character get to be appointed to the House of Lords?

    One might as well ask why the truly tasty Nicholas van Hoogstraten gets given refugees to accommodate...




  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    I.

    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    Ah, I can see it now.

    Starmer, elected as Prime Minister has five years as head of a coalition government. Forced by his own backbenchers, he promises a referendum on rejoining the EU in the event that he gets back into Number 10.

    Winning a narrow majority, he's forced into this. Starmer opposes rejoining, and points to the massive splits it would create in the country. Despite being joined by Conservative leader Rees-Mogg in opposing British membership, the people vote, by a 52-48 margin to rejoin the EU.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Some bizarre smearing of the UK in this RTE article:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2022/1209/1340855-eu-norway-uk-russia-fisheries/

    Internal EU correspondence reveals an increasing impatience with Norway over fisheries issues since 2017, with member states accusing Norway of trying to increase its access to EU waters while restricting EU vessels access to Norwegian waters.

    At the same time, some EU member states believe that the UK has moved closer to Norway on fisheries post-Brexit, by extension compromising its hardline anti-Russian stance over the invasion of Ukraine.
  • Is this the second plus 5 conservative poll today

    Seems strange

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1601252580159418368?t=NvCUDbO9S6X2jJOsVOjTuw&s=19
  • kle4 said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    I'm a big fan of pragmatism and reasonableness. I have an ingrained suspicion about ideological projects. But even so you do need some vision and backbone.

    There has been a notable drop in drama, true, though after the last 5 months that's not hard.

    He passed Truss's tenure on Wednesday.
    Madame Whiplash's place in British history is assured. As the UK equivalent of William Henry Harrison.

    Of course before his presidency was terminated after just one month - he literally caught his death of cold delivering the longest inauguration speech in US history - WHH had achieved a fair amount, for example serving as first governor of Indiana Territory AND winning the Battle of Tippecanoe.

    Not sure that Liz Truss has quite as impressive a resume.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    M45 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
    Woudl not have been a bad idea.

    And re. the 'there's a pandemic on' mitigation - I think it's the opposite, she saw the whole thing as an unbeatable opportunity for using her connections to trouser a load of taxpayers' money.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,818

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    What would Labour do differently? I'm willing to take the punt at this stage but if anything I think we'll see even less investment as Labour will prioritise day to day spending even more and higher public sector salaries.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Ghedebrav said:

    M45 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
    Woudl not have been a bad idea.

    And re. the 'there's a pandemic on' mitigation - I think it's the opposite, she saw the whole thing as an unbeatable opportunity for using her connections to trouser a load of taxpayers' money.
    Yes. And those who look after our money for us didn't have to give it to her. She shouldn't be the only one who feels some consequences.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Ghedebrav said:

    M45 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
    Woudl not have been a bad idea.

    And re. the 'there's a pandemic on' mitigation - I think it's the opposite, she saw the whole thing as an unbeatable opportunity for using her connections to trouser a load of taxpayers' money.
    Mitigation for the government's actions, not Mone's.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2022

    Is this the second plus 5 conservative poll today

    Seems strange

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1601252580159418368?t=NvCUDbO9S6X2jJOsVOjTuw&s=19

    Rishi Sunak ain't perfect, not even close.

    HOWEVER, he is NOT a 24/7 disaster zone like his predecessor(s). His value is limited, but more than nil.

    Whereas BJ was big fat zero, certainly that was the average: up a mountain at the start, down a hole at the end.

    And LT was less than zero, from Budget Soup to Fracking Nuts.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Driver said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    Or vote Labour to continue national decline...
    Yes indeed the all enveloping cluster**** must be the work of 25 years of continuous Labour Governments. Time for a change?
  • On the question of whether ChatGPT is creative/has a sense of humour, I gave it the prompt

    Write a limerick about
    a young poet of Japan, whose verses would never quite scan

    (I'm sure you all know that one? About trying to get as many syllables into the last line as he possibly can...)

    Anyway, this is what it came up with:

    There once was a young poet of Japan
    Whose verses would never quite scan
    He would try and he'd try
    But his meter would die
    And his readers would quickly disband.

    Which is not bad and I guess no worse than some of the dross Edward Lear came up with.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    kle4 said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    I'm a big fan of pragmatism and reasonableness. I have an ingrained suspicion about ideological projects. But even so you do need some vision and backbone.

    There has been a notable drop in drama, true, though after the last 5 months that's not hard.

    He passed Truss's tenure on Wednesday.
    Madame Whiplash's place in British history is assured.
    There's only one Lindi St Clair.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2022

    Is this the second plus 5 conservative poll today

    Seems strange

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1601252580159418368?t=NvCUDbO9S6X2jJOsVOjTuw&s=19

    That isn't the tsunami change that we see from the 13 day old ComRes poll though is it?
  • RobD said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    M45 said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/09/revealed-the-full-inside-story-of-the-michelle-mone-ppe-scandal

    This is the biggest political scandal that I can remember. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is there a next minister to leave the Cabinet market up currently?

    Really? The biggest? You either have a poor memory, or this is a recency bias (we attribute more recent events as better or worse than more distant ones).
    More than £200mn of taxpayers money given to a shady offshore network of companies whose beneficiary seems to be a politician from the governing party and her family, by ministers from the same party, for defective equipment, with £100mn of profits, in the middle of a pandemic, via a channel set up to prioritise people close to the governing party... It puts Neil Hamilton's brown envelopes full of banknotes to shame that's for sure. £200mn is a hell of a lot of money, and based on what the Graun is reporting it looks like pretty outrageous corruption. What scandal do you remember that's bigger than this one?
    World cup to Qatar and the French get rather a lot of defence orders.

    Incidently, whether or not the Grauniad have this story correct, what is the status of the money? If money was paid for goods not delivered, or deemed not to be fit for the role, surely the government is going after the suppliers for the money back?
    I'm talking about UK political scandals. I agree if we go global there are bigger ones.
    I believe the government is trying to recover its money, and perhaps coincidentally Lady Mone is selling her properties and yacht.
    The real scandal is the VIP lane system that the government put in place, which seems (as one would have imagined) to have hindered rather than helped the cost effective delivery of equipment. Setting up that system was at best stupid and naive, at worst a deliberate invitation to corruption. We need an independent inquiry, urgently.
    I agree we should look at what happened. I only ask, as always, judge by what was happening at the time. France, our dear friends and allies impounded and seized PPE that was on its way to the UK. Labour was screaming about lack of PPE.

    The government did its best and got some things badly wrong. I suspect, from the Graun story, the Mone is a wrong 'un and hopefully will be persued to the full extent of the law if laws have been broken.

    But we were in extraordinary times.
    True. But if there was major corruption I don't think "but there was a pandemic on" is a good enough defence to get them off. Esp if the people who benefitted were connected to decision makers.
    Its not a defence but it does explain a lack of scrutiny at the time. If she has done as it appears, then Lady no more and lets have some jail time. But thats for a court of law to decide, not some randoms on an obscure political betting AI/woke/UAP blog.
    There were clearly a lot of nonsense legal actions trying to punish the government for taking expedited action which, in the circumstances, was both lawful and appropriate, even if it meant the risks of some level of, say, fraud, was increased. High standards and proper process is incredibly important, but proper process usually includes provision for emergencies, which we were definitely in. So many of the lawsuits were just unreasonable.

    However, there is a level at which even in such times people should not have gotten close to perpetrating such a scandal.
    The VIP access via politicians is pure third worldery. What was ever wrong with a Civil Service procurement body, staffed by the likes of the buyers for Primark and M&S? who after all were at a loose end at the time.
    Woudl not have been a bad idea.

    And re. the 'there's a pandemic on' mitigation - I think it's the opposite, she saw the whole thing as an unbeatable opportunity for using her connections to trouser a load of taxpayers' money.
    Mitigation for the government's actions, not Mone's.
    The VIP lane for friends and family of the Conservative Party can't be justified by the pandemic. Especially as it seems to have hindered rather than helped the procurement process (as even a moment's thought could have predicted). There are a lot of unanswered questions here.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MaxPB said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    What would Labour do differently? I'm willing to take the punt at this stage but if anything I think we'll see even less investment as Labour will prioritise day to day spending even more and higher public sector salaries.
    The point is that the Tories are ideologically bankrupt, and have steered the country into a bunker.

    As to reasons to vote for Labour, let’s see what Reeves says. She is quietly impressive.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    MaxPB said:

    Gadfly said:

    FPT

    JohnO said:

    Interrresssstttiiinnggg and not yet covered here (I think).

    Comres

    Lab 42 (-5)
    Con 31 (+5)
    LD 10
    Reform 5

    Asks GPTchat about outliers.

    Positive Leader in today's Times for Sunak too...

    " The new leader’s pragmatic and drama-free focus on the issues that matter most to voters is both welcome and effective...

    ...What Mr Sunak has brought to office is a welcome combination of pragmatism and reasonableness. He has focused his attention on trying to find solutions to the key issues that matter most to voters...

    ...Crucially, he has gone about his task without the drama that has been such a feature of British politics in recent years.

    ...Whether Mr Sunak’s approach can save the Tories from what polls suggest is certain defeat at the next election is too soon to tell. But the party’s prospects look better than they did six weeks ago."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-the-prime-minister-reasonable-rishi-wrzv7wc56 (£)
    By abandoning any reform at the first smell of grapeshot from the back benchers.

    Vote Tory to continue national decline.
    What would Labour do differently? I'm willing to take the punt at this stage but if anything I think we'll see even less investment as Labour will prioritise day to day spending even more and higher public sector salaries.
    The point is that the Tories are ideologically bankrupt, and have steered the country into a bunker.

    As to reasons to vote for Labour, let’s see what Reeves says. She is quietly impressive.
    Translation: "minimal, if that".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    I.

    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    Ah, I can see it now.

    Starmer, elected as Prime Minister has five years as head of a coalition government. Forced by his own backbenchers, he promises a referendum on rejoining the EU in the event that he gets back into Number 10.

    Winning a narrow majority, he's forced into this. Starmer opposes rejoining, and points to the massive splits it would create in the country. Despite being joined by Conservative leader Rees-Mogg in opposing British membership, the people vote, by a 52-48 margin to rejoin the EU.

    LOL
  • Is this the second plus 5 conservative poll today

    Seems strange

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1601252580159418368?t=NvCUDbO9S6X2jJOsVOjTuw&s=19

    That isn't the tsunami result that we see from the 13 day old ComRes poll though is it?
    I am sceptical about much of a change unless the strikes are beginning to annoy the public

    Anyway I expect Sunak will mitigate the polls but Starmer is likely to be the next PM
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    I.

    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    Ah, I can see it now.

    Starmer, elected as Prime Minister has five years as head of a coalition government. Forced by his own backbenchers, he promises a referendum on rejoining the EU in the event that he gets back into Number 10.

    Winning a narrow majority, he's forced into this. Starmer opposes rejoining, and points to the massive splits it would create in the country. Despite being joined by Conservative leader Rees-Mogg in opposing British membership, the people vote, by a 52-48 margin to rejoin the EU.
    Having lost the referendum, Starmer resigns and is replaced by Rachel Reeves who kept a low profile during the campaign. She tries to find a compromise but struggles to negotiate an accession deal that can get through parliament and suffers multiple defeats, ultimately leading to her downfall and replacement by former London mayor Sadiq Khan on a hard rejoin platform including joining the Euro.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think odds on is too optimistic for Labour. Largest party, sure.

    I agree
    Gaining 100 seats for Labour would be a tremendous achievement for Starmer, Blair like. But it would not be enough.
    Sir Keir could find himself in a similar situation to Cameron in 2010 - making massive gains but falling just short of a majority, and therefore being seen as having "failed" because of unrealistic polling two years previously.
    I.

    Yes, it is a risk for him. But, like Cameron, he will then be PM and most people will not be that interested in the supposed "failure".
    Ah, I can see it now.

    Starmer, elected as Prime Minister has five years as head of a coalition government. Forced by his own backbenchers, he promises a referendum on rejoining the EU in the event that he gets back into Number 10.

    Winning a narrow majority, he's forced into this. Starmer opposes rejoining, and points to the massive splits it would create in the country. Despite being joined by Conservative leader Rees-Mogg in opposing British membership, the people vote, by a 52-48 margin to rejoin the EU.
    Having lost the referendum, Starmer resigns and is replaced by Rachel Reeves who kept a low profile during the campaign. She tries to find a compromise but struggles to negotiate an accession deal that can get through parliament and suffers multiple defeats, ultimately leading to her downfall and replacement by former London mayor Sadiq Khan on a hard rejoin platform including joining the Euro.
    Well, at least he wouldn't be removed for drunkenness.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Kyrsten Sinema has had quite an ideological journey. When she began in politics, the Democrats were too conservative for her tastes. Now they are too far to the left.

    (I was surprised to see her save that notorious tax loophole, "carried interest": https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/carried-interest-loophole-survives-the-inflation-reduction-act )

    As a practical matter, she may have a better chance of running for re-election as an independent in 2024, since many Democratic voters have soured on her.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrsten_Sinema
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited December 2022

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Was she going to lose a primary challenge?

    US Senator Kyrsten Sinema has announced her intention to leave the Democratic Party, four years after being elected.

    But she emphasised that she will not sit with Republicans and said she would instead serve as an independent member in the chamber.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63917462

    "Registering as an independent and showing up to work with the title independent is a reflection of who I've always been, and it's a reflection of who Arizona is," she said in a Twitter video


    So she was being dishonest before?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited December 2022

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    What does "no defence to Brexit" mean? The chap can't even write

    He should have got ChatGPT to write his letter

    "The End of High-School English

    I’ve been teaching English for 12 years, and I’m astounded by what ChatGPT can produce."

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/openai-chatgpt-writing-high-school-english-essay/672412/?utm_source=apple_news
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    England are very much on the tougher side of the draw (partly because they are themselves very good, of course).
  • Croatia well worth extra time
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Is this the second plus 5 conservative poll today

    Seems strange

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1601252580159418368?t=NvCUDbO9S6X2jJOsVOjTuw&s=19

    Well if you put aside the PPE fiasco with the knicker Queen the government haven't had a major disaster for a week or so. Which is probably their best run of the year.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Croatia holding Brazil to ET!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Big G is not wrong. You get the sense from recent comments that Starmer is more adamantly against, say, joining the Single Market than the Tories

    The economic problems facing the country are so grave many Brexiteer Tories are reluctantly coming around to the SM as a compromise (I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out the facts). Starmer seems dead against it, by contrast (presumably because he desperately wants and needs to win back the Red Wall)

    Of course this may be panto from Starmer, and he doesn't mean it, but this is the impression given
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Croatia on target for getting to penalties, which seemed to be the limits of their ambition from the start. Not a single shot on target in the first 90 minutes.
  • Labour would have to win at least 20 scottish seats to have any hope of having an outright majority, on latest polling that doesnt look likely, I have said for some time that Starmer has a mountain to climb, to win outright, as for having a 150 + seat majority, that is a real longshot, and to be fair only one person on this site is utterly convinced that labour will win huge, one other thing to take into account is that the far left are unlikely to vote for Starmer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
  • Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324
    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
  • Leon said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Big G is not wrong. You get the sense from recent comments that Starmer is more adamantly against, say, joining the Single Market than the Tories

    The economic problems facing the country are so grave many Brexiteer Tories are reluctantly coming around to the SM as a compromise (I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out the facts). Starmer seems dead against it, by contrast (presumably because he desperately wants and needs to win back the Red Wall)

    Of course this may be panto from Starmer, and he doesn't mean it, but this is the impression given
    He definitely doesn’t mean it but he’ll say any old toss to keep the red wall and tabs on side.




  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    It’s your house journal, not mine.

    Even the dimmest of your fellow travellers are realising they left a shit-stain on the rug.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited December 2022

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
    Have you had a few too many?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    It’s your house journal, not mine.

    Even the dimmest of your fellow travellers are realising they left a shit-stain on the rug.
    The writer sounds upper middle class, it was the working class and lower middle class who won it for Leave, not a few posh Singapore on Thames obsessives
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Leon said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Big G is not wrong. You get the sense from recent comments that Starmer is more adamantly against, say, joining the Single Market than the Tories

    The economic problems facing the country are so grave many Brexiteer Tories are reluctantly coming around to the SM as a compromise (I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out the facts). Starmer seems dead against it, by contrast (presumably because he desperately wants and needs to win back the Red Wall)

    Of course this may be panto from Starmer, and he doesn't mean it, but this is the impression given
    He definitely doesn’t mean it but he’ll say any old toss to keep the red wall and tabs on side.




    Labour would be totally bonkers to target SNP seats ahead of Tory seats.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    I was under the impression that blaming London stuff was code for anti English racism. Stop stoking it up you beast!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    It’s your house journal, not mine.

    Even the dimmest of your fellow travellers are realising they left a shit-stain on the rug.
    The writer sounds upper middle class, it was the working class and lower middle class who won it for Leave, not a few posh Singapore on Thames obsessives
    As far as I am aware, all the Singapore on Thames obsessive were/are hiding out in your party. Sociologically, I’d argue it is/was a lower middle or middle middle class belief.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    But we aren't getting reduced immigration. We imported half a million people last year, and Labour will do the same

    Meanwhile the dinghy people keep coming

    I can understand why many Leavers, rich or poor, are now looking at the state of things and wondering: What was Brexit all FOR?

    Personally, I can see the arguments from democracy and sovereignty, but I get why many don't
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Driver said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
    Have you had a few too many?
    No, just a bit bored.
    Plus, Big G loves to troll, and presumably loves the reaction.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324
    TERRIBLE miss
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    I was under the impression that blaming London stuff was code for anti English racism. Stop stoking it up you beast!
    One finger, [edit] HYUFD means, for Wales, with a margin of difference only because it had been where it shouldn't and hadn't been washed - Brexit vote was 52.5/47.5.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    “Hilariously”, the parts of the country worst hit by Brexit are actually places like Wales and the North East.

    Less levelling up, more like just levelling.
  • Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
    You are simply an unpleasant individual who seems unable to contribute to debate without being abusive

    Sad really but then you do not seem to be able to help yourself
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
    You are simply an unpleasant individual who seems unable to contribute to debate without being abusive

    Sad really but then you do not seem to be able to help yourself
    I refer you to my previous post.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Maybe when you enter a debate that avoids personal attacks I will respond but in the meantime grow up
    Sadly you have form for simply making things up about Keir Starmer.

    Not that I am a huge fan, but it’s good to keep things factual.

    I’ll leave it to you to confirm whether this is a sexual fetish or to fulfil some other urge.
    Starmer rejects joining the single market and free movement of labour much as any brexiteer

    You may not like it but hurling personal abuse does not change the fact that this is his position
    “As much” is at least debatable.
    “More”, which was your original, cum-stained assertion, was entire fantasy.
    Have you had a few too many?
    No, just a bit bored.
    Plus, Big G loves to troll, and presumably loves the reaction.
    It's not just him you've used completely inappropriate language towards in the last few minutes.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    Though that's another manifestation of the pickle the UK is in.

    For quite a while, certainly since Blair, maybe since Thatch and the Big Bang, we've collectively been happy to have global finance sit in London, as long as we can get some taxes as a result. For most of us, it's felt a bit money-for-nothing. But the costs have crept up on us.

    Partly, we all hate London; it's got all the wealth and now normal people can't afford to move there, even if they want to. It sucks up talent and investment that could be doing other things. It also means there's a disconnect between what normal people do and the national wealth; this massive taxpayer that is, at best, semi-attached to the rest of the UK.

    We hate it, but can't do without the money it provides.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Neymar!
  • Leon said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Pity that Starmer is now more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers, when someone in a position to influence the debate should promote joining the single market
    In what sense, aside from your masturbatory fantasies, is Starmer “more Brexiteer than the Brexiteers”?
    Big G is not wrong. You get the sense from recent comments that Starmer is more adamantly against, say, joining the Single Market than the Tories

    The economic problems facing the country are so grave many Brexiteer Tories are reluctantly coming around to the SM as a compromise (I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out the facts). Starmer seems dead against it, by contrast (presumably because he desperately wants and needs to win back the Red Wall)

    Of course this may be panto from Starmer, and he doesn't mean it, but this is the impression given
    He definitely doesn’t mean it but he’ll say any old toss to keep the red wall and tabs on side.




    Labour would be totally bonkers to target SNP seats ahead of Tory seats.
    I’ve been suggesting that for a while. It’s not pretty but Lab have to concentrate on England and stop bleating about the SNP ‘stealing’ their voters. Of course the Tories turning themselves into an excrement spattered vote repellant has helped mightily.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,324
    BOLSONARO!!
  • Pure genius
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Very, very off-topic - but has anyone else received refunds from Amazon that they didn't ask for? I've had about five over the past month or so - including emails saying "thank you for returning the item in good condition." I've tried their customer service who - at best - say "Yeah, that is a bit weird".

    Just a few minutes ago they gave me a *second* refund for a pair of slippers that I'm currently wearing.

    I'm not exactly in tears at getting a 'free' £100 quid or so from them - but... it's a bit odd.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    I was under the impression that blaming London stuff was code for anti English racism. Stop stoking it up you beast!
    One finger, [edit] HYUFD means, for Wales, with a margin of difference only because it had been where it shouldn't and hadn't been washed - Brexit vote was 52.5/47.5.
    Which was higher than the UK vote of 51.8% Leave and also higher than the South East vote of 51.7% Leave
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Brilliance from Neymar. Thank goodness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    But we aren't getting reduced immigration. We imported half a million people last year, and Labour will do the same

    Meanwhile the dinghy people keep coming

    I can understand why many Leavers, rich or poor, are now looking at the state of things and wondering: What was Brexit all FOR?

    Personally, I can see the arguments from democracy and sovereignty, but I get why many don't
    We have reduced EU immigration as Leavers wanted, it is reducing non EU immigration the government failed on
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    It’s your house journal, not mine.

    Even the dimmest of your fellow travellers are realising they left a shit-stain on the rug.
    The Speccie is a house journal, yes, but one which amuses itself by publishing opposing views. A lesson the New Statesman might learn.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    How on earth could we let Northern and Midlands and Essex and Welsh working class oiks get a say on more tightly controlling immigration? All they have done is made my nanny, cleaner and plumber supply more restricted, meant I have to queue an hour longer when going skiing in Klosters and to our summer villa in Tuscany and reduced the number of corporate deals across the EU my firm deals with.

    How dare they!!!
    Yes, indeed, but if Brexit is fucking up London then it is fucking up UK PLC
    London rejected Brexit even in 2016, in part it was 2 fingers to London from the English provinces and Wales, not just to Brussels.

    Most Leavers wanted Levelling up and reduced immigration and regained sovereignty, not an even stronger globalist London disconnected from the rest of the country
    I was under the impression that blaming London stuff was code for anti English racism. Stop stoking it up you beast!
    One finger, [edit] HYUFD means, for Wales, with a margin of difference only because it had been where it shouldn't and hadn't been washed - Brexit vote was 52.5/47.5.
    Which was higher than the UK vote of 51.8% Leave and also higher than the South East vote of 51.7% Leave
    So? I'm right. It;s not two fingers.
  • AI asked to look at the pros and cons of Scottish Independence:

    https://populistsplaybook.com/2022/12/09/computer-says-no/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Letter to the Spectator:

    'Sir: On the day after the Brexit vote, I met my daughter (a City lawyer) who was absolutely incandescent at my decision. She did not mince her words. Nearly seven years on she was right and I was wrong. There is no defence to Brexit.'

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1601199989430140928?s=46&t=vrKykZbgjhmiVKqA3imNSA

    Right about what? If the question was Brexit will make the country better off in 7 years time, then fine, it’s not. But that wasn’t the question was it? Brexit was about more than just GDP. It was about opting out of the European super state. It was about free trade with the whole world, not just the cartel on our doorstep.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited December 2022
    From the Mail blog:

    (Southgate on Ben White and Steve Holland disagreement) 'As far as I'm aware, the article used words like 'alleged' so obviously didn't feel strongly enough about it. Ben left for personal reasons, we made that very clear, and especially in this day and age, it's important that is respected.'

    Not exactly the strongest of denials, though it’s possible that they are happy for everyone to think this is what happened.
This discussion has been closed.