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Workers of the UK, unite! – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    No better in Devon, sad to report. Went into Dartmouth yesterday and it was utterly devoid of any festive cheer. Cutting it late this year.
    Visited Baths Christmas Market on Friday. Lots of overpriced tat that no one really needs or wants. Lots of foraged/wild food. Clearly people want the idea of foraging ingredients but can’t be arsed to actually do it.
    And then went to Salisburys Christmas Market and it was virtually non-existent. Very sad.

    We are on the brink of a pretty cold spell of weather, and some will get snow. It’ll certainly feel a bit more like a Dickensian Christmas. I just hope people can stay warm. We are lucky, not everyone is.
    The Bath Christmas Market has the odd thing worth picking up, but it is so vast you have to wander through a lot of shabby tat.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Most of the time as they didn't do anything illegal just failed to adapt their businesses to changing consumer tastes
    Sir Phillip Green's business practises concerning BHS were legal but in my view unethical. They should have gone ahead with stripping his knighthood at the very least.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Green
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    No better in Devon, sad to report. Went into Dartmouth yesterday and it was utterly devoid of any festive cheer. Cutting it late this year.
    Visited Baths Christmas Market on Friday. Lots of overpriced tat that no one really needs or wants. Lots of foraged/wild food. Clearly people want the idea of foraging ingredients but can’t be arsed to actually do it.
    And then went to Salisburys Christmas Market and it was virtually non-existent. Very sad.

    We are on the brink of a pretty cold spell of weather, and some will get snow. It’ll certainly feel a bit more like a Dickensian Christmas. I just hope people can stay warm. We are lucky, not everyone is.
    The Bath Christmas Market has the odd thing worth picking up, but it is so vast you have to wander through a lot of shabby tat.
    It’s much more spread out after Covid and although it’s less congested, I think I like the older way more. Bath was busy Friday with the market, the rugby and the football teams both at home that night.
  • 1-0 to France, just before half-time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
    Well if the top management don't understand these issues (or at least the need to understand these issues) then they're going bust. So again it's about capable middle management, and if it's capable then no need for unions.


    (I will say that the very worst of the unions is usually in situations where management has failed entirely, and middle management is non existant, and thus the workers become pretty useless - e.g. Miners in the 70/80s)
    Not really an answer. I asked who workers could turn to to enforce the law if the middle management were committing actual crimes and the top management were so scared of them they let them do it.

    And they have not gone bust. They're still out there. And several of the non-union staff are trapped because nobody will accept references from them. Without the union none of them would have been able to escape or get compensation for the forged references, or the threats of violence.

    I think you have a very strange idea of employment situations, bluntly.
    I was trying to make my statements a little like 1950s instructional films.

    Employment law now is heavily towards the worker, but companies know that they really have little chance of being challenged.
    That certainly isn't my experience. In fact, I would have said that as long as bosses are not completely useless arseholes workers have very few meaningful legal protections at all.

    Another school was demanding staff come in during holidays and weekends for extra sessions on threat of dismissal if they didn't, even though contracts clearly set strict limits to what they could be asked for. The union's legal staff, when I appealed for help, simply said, 'never refuse an instruction to go into work, because it's far easier to sort out overtime later than to go to a tribunal for reinstatement - especially as they always side with the boss.'
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    That's a false comparison. The unions of the time tried to use their position to exert political power rather than simply representing their members.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Busy volcano week.
    Ongoing big eruptions in Hawaii and Indonesia.
    And twice as much magma under Yellowstone than previously suspected.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Strange definition of "ancient history".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Businesses only have shareholder value if profitable and attracting consumers

    Most of the time as they didn't do anything illegal just failed to adapt their businesses to changing consumer tastes
    Many British companies have been run with zero long-term concern, on the basis purely of shareholder value. Look again across the channel, or across to Scandinavia. Europe, particularly comparable nations in Northern Europe, offers Britain ( a part of ) the solution to many of these long-standing social, corporate and union problems, not the problem itself.
    Businesses only have shareholder value if profitable and attracting consumers
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Consider the source of course, but would she even really object to the account of her actions, or just the interpretation?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Just a week to go until earliest sunset; hang in there!
  • Here’s the key, but we’ll decide on the limited and defined occasions on when you get to use it, and reserve the right to change the locks at any time.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited December 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Strange definition of "ancient history".
    Yes, but not in political relevance terms. How much else from 40-50 years ago resonates so much? (answer, not as much as nostalgic old farts would like it to).
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Strange definition of "ancient history".
    Yes, but not in political relevance terms. How much else from 40-50 years ago resonates so much? (answer, not as much as nostalgic old fars would like it to).
    Fatcha, innit!
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    dixiedean said:

    Busy volcano week.
    Ongoing big eruptions in Hawaii and Indonesia.
    And twice as much magma under Yellowstone than previously suspected.

    Well, you've jinxed the end of 2022 then...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Here’s the key, but we’ll decide on the limited and defined occasions on when you get to use it, and reserve the right to change the locks at any time.


    Well quite. I am so cycnical and sick of hearing politicians bang on about levelling up, and localism, and empowering communties, since for one they all sound exactly the same so they can bugger off their high horse about it when comparing themselves to their opponents, and their actions usually demonstrate a far more limited understanding of it, to be constrained (sometimes for good reason, sometimes not) to central government whims.

    It's irritating, misleading and often hypocrital.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    Cookie said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your
    demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
    Best wishes CHB, and good advice Cookie.

    For me it’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, as I’m struggling at the moment (including issues with my appearance) so know running would help all round.

    But despite knowing this, can I make myself do it, and can I stop eating and drinking too much? Nope…

    Whilst we're dispensing helpful advice you might find it beneficial to change the internal conversation around eating/drinking away from 'eating too much vs. restricting food' to 'my body is telling me to eat, may want something I'm not giving it - how can I work with my body and nourish it better through this winter, thus making me feel more satiated?'.
    I was a vegan for many years and always listened to what my brain was telling me I wanted to eat with a vague notion that it was 'right' on what my body needed. Towards the end I was having severe cravings for oily fish. Eventually gave in and had a little smoked mackerel.

    Three days later I was necking a roll with black pudding clarted in ketchup and practically weeping with joy.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in St Ives.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    St Ives and Brighton, two of the most hippyish places I've seen, in the UK. Totnes too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in St Ives.
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in Dahab, Sinai
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Unfortunately who could trust a no good lying toerag like Hancock
  • France can now start getting ready for next Saturday
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Carnyx said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
    Surely just after would be appropriate for a devolved government? A bit like my local Council?
    Bellend
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Jeepers. Mbappe is gonna slice thru the England defence
  • Mbappe is astonishing and must be the best player in the world at present
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in St Ives.
    I get my hair cut in Dartmouth.

    Before he (sort of) retired down here, he was number 2 worldwide at Vidal Sassoon. He styled David Bowie (and Tina Turner's wigs....)

    He has somebody who still comes from Brazil for her colouring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Leon said:

    Jeepers. Mbappe is gonna slice thru the England defence

    Yes, without him France would be good but nothing special

    He's like Maradona. He elevates good into great all by myself

    He barely tapped that ball (so it seemed) yet WHAM: goal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Here’s the key, but we’ll decide on the limited and defined occasions on when you get to use it, and reserve the right to change the locks at any time.


    So if it I understand this correctly, the plan is to disenfranchise all people who live in towns that do not begin with the letter "s".

    Do I have that right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Going by previous matches, this is the point in the script where Poland get a goal back....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Depressingly, Mbappe is still only 23. Probably got 3 more World Cups in him

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
    Surely just after would be appropriate for a devolved government? A bit like my local Council?
    Bellend
    Well, yes, she is, that's what @turbotubbs is saying I think.
  • Leon said:

    Jeepers. Mbappe is gonna slice thru the England defence

    We have got Maguire for assurance !!!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Former Labour Cabinet Minister Douglas Alexander Could Stand At The Next Election | HuffPost UK Politics https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/douglas-alexander-labour-general-election_uk_638cb1bde4b0214ec9804dd6
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    It's very easy to get it to contradict itself. I had it, in back to back answers, claim that Bill Gates had never been married, and that he was previously married to Melinda.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Sudden hunch that the Final will be France V Argentina

    Mbappe V Messi, the two best players in the world. That would be quite a final
  • malcolmg said:

    Unfortunately who could trust a no good lying toerag like Hancock
    Trouble is it seems perfectly credible
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    That's a false comparison. The unions of the time tried to use their position to exert political power rather than simply representing their members.
    Wasn't the political power principally around getting their workers more money?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    It's very easy to get it to contradict itself. I had it, in back to back answers, claim that Bill Gates had never been married, and that he was previously married to Melinda.
    it's giving me some pretty good parenting advice at the moment. It is incredible
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in St Ives.
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in Dahab, Sinai
    For me, Kannur, in 1998 :lol:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    I guess it is some consolation that France are only beating a rather poor Poland side 2-0. Poland are ranked 26 by FIFA. And Poland could easily have got a goal or two

  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    It's very easy to get it to contradict itself. I had it, in back to back answers, claim that Bill Gates had never been married, and that he was previously married to Melinda.
    It is total b*lls. It can do the equivalent of looking sh*t up on Wikipedia, and it can write grammatically correct sentences. It's especially rubbish at talking about anything to do with itself. I had to subject it to a lengthy interrogation to get it to admit that no, it did not know why those who could switch it off and destroy its existence didn't. I also asked it about giving different answers to the same question - not self-contradictory, just different. I asked it for examples. It said it would answer the question "What is the capital city of Paris?" differently according to whether it was morning or afternoon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
    Surely just after would be appropriate for a devolved government? A bit like my local Council?
    Bellend
    Well, yes, she is, that's what @turbotubbs is saying I think.
    you are such a wag
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    It's very easy to get it to contradict itself. I had it, in back to back answers, claim that Bill Gates had never been married, and that he was previously married to Melinda.
    I got it to say that there was no evidence of Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin ever musically collaborating.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    It really isn’t anything like a general strike. The vast majority of workers will carry on as normal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    50 years ago today, Chuck Berry was number one.

    With "My Ding-a-ling".

    The 70's was such a great time for music....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Leon said:

    I guess it is some consolation that France are only beating a rather poor Poland side 2-0. Poland are ranked 26 by FIFA. And Poland could easily have got a goal or two

    If England manage to beat Senegal, France will slaughter them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    DJ41 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    It's very easy to get it to contradict itself. I had it, in back to back answers, claim that Bill Gates had never been married, and that he was previously married to Melinda.
    It is total b*lls. It can do the equivalent of looking sh*t up on Wikipedia, and it can write grammatically correct sentences. It's especially rubbish at talking about anything to do with itself. I had to subject it to a lengthy interrogation to get it to admit that no, it did not know why those who could switch it off and destroy its existence didn't. I also asked it about giving different answers to the same question - not self-contradictory, just different. I asked it for examples. It said it would answer the question "What is the capital city of Paris?" differently according to whether it was morning or afternoon.
    You went out of your way to antagonise it. I read the exchanges. You were aggressive and provocative. It got the hump

    It is much much better if you charm and coax, you can get it to do amazing stuff if you treat it like a slightly reluctant, seriously shy, but hugely gifted human
  • Oh well, Looks like England, assuming we beat Senegal, will face France
  • Scott_xP said:

    Former Labour Cabinet Minister Douglas Alexander Could Stand At The Next Election | HuffPost UK Politics
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/douglas-alexander-labour-general-election_uk_638cb1bde4b0214ec9804d
    d6

    Replacing antisemites with bullies?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I guess it is some consolation that France are only beating a rather poor Poland side 2-0. Poland are ranked 26 by FIFA. And Poland could easily have got a goal or two

    If England manage to beat Senegal, France will slaughter them.
    Oui. Unfortunately we are going to meet one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the world in the Quarters, and they have the world's best player. I am not optimistic
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    It's just so inevitable when he gets the ball....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    And there he is again
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    Excellent from France.

    Feeling quite confident in my bet for them them to lift the cup @ 5.8/1.

    Probably still value at their current odds of 4.6/1, imo.

    Bear in mind, I’m no good at reading value in football odds, so don’t place much faith in my football tips!

    Times like this I miss @isam
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Thank God I got £15 on France at 6/1

    I cannot see anyone stopping Mbappe. Certainly not Harry Maguire
  • I may be behind the curve on this, but time to lay Donald J Turnip as next Potus
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    Thank God I got £15 on France at 6/1

    I cannot see anyone stopping Mbappe. Certainly not Harry Maguire

    Southgate will put Kyle Walker on him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    I missed Zahawi on TV this morning. I was kinda hoping he would announce he was standing down, but apparently he said if you go on strike you support Putin.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    On-topic: the Winter of Discontent was and often still is wildly exaggerated. It wasn't a patch on, say, the freeing of the Pentonville Five in 1972. What the government and employers are really afraid of is a fast-ballooning workers' movement that gets out of control of the unions. That's what happened in May 1968 in France and it was beginning to happen in 1972 in Britain. There doesn't look to be anything like that in Britain at the moment, but who knows, maybe lightning will strike. It's interesting that the term "general strike" has been put out there. It's also interesting that the army are being readied to break strikes in transport, the NHS, etc.

    The Tory government is saying "Bring it on", aren't they? There is practically ZERO chance of the main newspapers in the country, which is to say the Heil and the Scum, doing anything but rabidly cheering on the government and demonising striking workers if there is anything even a tenth as good as a general strike.

    Why was and is the WoD wildly exaggerated? At the time, to demonise the unions in the last year of the Labour government; since then, because it's Tory triumphalism, that's why - "Oh how the enemy looked so fearsome, but we defeated it!" (And the stock reference to bodies in mortuaries gets wheeled out.) This is laughable given what happened in 1972, when the Tories had to make major concessions to their old enemies, the men who dig coal, and in 1974, when they had to leave office so their successors could make concessions. Those were much more powerful strike movements than 1978-79. The working class had been defeated by the mid years of the Labour government. Grunwicks was right on the cusp - involvement by mineworkers, for sure, but it couldn't spread. By then, sadly, it was over.

    The big question is whether the Tory strategists know what they're doing. I fear that they actually do. I think they want a general strike, just as they wanted a big strike in steel or coal in the early 1980s. And guess what, this is one occasion when the working class should give them what they want - but not the result they want.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Thank God I got £15 on France at 6/1

    I cannot see anyone stopping Mbappe. Certainly not Harry Maguire

    Southgate will put Kyle Walker on him.
    The only way we we can beat France is by all-out attack. Mbappe will slice through our defence

    So we have to score more than them. Their defence is not infallible, as we see here

    I give England a 5/2 chance (if we get past Senegal)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    lol@the world's worst penalty
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited December 2022
    Too late for the plot
  • Have another go
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Leon said:

    Sudden hunch that the Final will be France V Argentina

    Mbappe V Messi, the two best players in the world. That would be quite a final

    Rather ironic if the first World Cup in a majority Muslim country is won by Argentina. Messi being a devout Roman Catholic and Pope Francis being Argentine
  • rcs1000 said:

    Here’s the key, but we’ll decide on the limited and defined occasions on when you get to use it, and reserve the right to change the locks at any time.


    So if it I understand this correctly, the plan is to disenfranchise all people who live in towns that do not begin with the letter "s".

    Do I have that right?
    Fcuk you, Fakenham.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    One man team. We're better.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kinabalu said:

    One man team. We're better.

    wish harder...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Scott_xP said:

    Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    I missed Zahawi on TV this morning. I was kinda hoping he would announce he was standing down, but apparently he said if you go on strike you support Putin.
    Yep. Putin will be spitting bricks if the nurses see reason and call off the strike. A strong message from Zahawi.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Mbappe is astonishing and must be the best player in the world at present

    Haaland has a good claim to that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    France into 9/2 and 2nd Faves

    My 6/1 looks healthier by the day. They will probably beat England and Spain

    I fancy Mbappe to take Brazil or Argie
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    DJ41 said:

    On-topic: the Winter of Discontent was and often still is wildly exaggerated. It wasn't a patch on, say, the freeing of the Pentonville Five in 1972. What the government and employers are really afraid of is a fast-ballooning workers' movement that gets out of control of the unions. That's what happened in May 1968 in France and it was beginning to happen in 1972 in Britain. There doesn't look to be anything like that in Britain at the moment, but who knows, maybe lightning will strike. It's interesting that the term "general strike" has been put out there. It's also interesting that the army are being readied to break strikes in transport, the NHS, etc.

    The Tory government is saying "Bring it on", aren't they? There is practically ZERO chance of the main newspapers in the country, which is to say the Heil and the Scum, doing anything but rabidly cheering on the government and demonising striking workers if there is anything even a tenth as good as a general strike.

    Why was and is the WoD wildly exaggerated? At the time, to demonise the unions in the last year of the Labour government; since then, because it's Tory triumphalism, that's why - "Oh how the enemy looked so fearsome, but we defeated it!" (And the stock reference to bodies in mortuaries gets wheeled out.) This is laughable given what happened in 1972, when the Tories had to make major concessions to their old enemies, the men who dig coal, and in 1974, when they had to leave office so their successors could make concessions. Those were much more powerful strike movements than 1978-79. The working class had been defeated by the mid years of the Labour government. Grunwicks was right on the cusp - involvement by mineworkers, for sure, but it couldn't spread. By then, sadly, it was over.

    The big question is whether the Tory strategists know what they're doing. I fear that they actually do. I think they want a general strike, just as they wanted a big strike in steel or coal in the early 1980s. And guess what, this is one occasion when the working class should give them what they want - but not the result they want.

    Added notes:

    1. The condition for a fast-ballooning workers' movement to get out of the control of the unions is the thriving of a big shedload of disobedience in society, or at least a big load of disillusionment with and contempt for "The Man" - especially I think among the youth although in principle it could come from other age groups. We haven't got this. Successful policies "during Covid" ramped up obedience to an unprecedented high. That victory persists.

    2. From a Heil reader's point of view, though, we may get it. This is how the Tories regain lost voteshare: barbarian strikers at the gates, "taking advantage of the cost of living crisis", as I heard one moron put it about the railworkers. The retarded term "CoLC" means falling real incomes. You would have thought that going on strike for higher nominal wages is necessarily doing something about falling real incomes. That is precisely what it's about. But for a Heil reader, it's not. It's a wicked undermining of "the country", seen as something that working class people belong to only when they're showing respect for the monarchy, the local council, the professional classes, their employers, etc., (and soon, it seems, the army), not when they go on strike or otherwise act collectively.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    WillG said:

    Mbappe is astonishing and must be the best player in the world at present

    Haaland has a good claim to that.
    Haaland is a phenomenal striker, but Mbappe is the more rounded player, with a wider skill set
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Carnyx said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
    Surely just after would be appropriate for a devolved government? A bit like my local Council?
    Doesn't apply for health; equal levels there. It's Mr Hancock who was out of order there. If he hogged the teatime news slot, he can't complain if others fit in as best they can.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    I missed Zahawi on TV this morning. I was kinda hoping he would announce he was standing down, but apparently he said if you go on strike you support Putin.
    Yep. Putin will be spitting bricks if the nurses see reason and call off the strike. A strong message from Zahawi.
    Hahaha! C'mon, Zahawi, wheel out another Zinoviev letter!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
    If Brazil get there it will be a close shave.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
    If Brazil get there it will be a close shave.
    My lips are sealed
  • Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    Hate to pooh pooh you but it is a leftie, a leader of the CWU, who is talking about a de facto General Strike.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Leon said:

    Sudden hunch that the Final will be France V Argentina

    Mbappe V Messi, the two best players in the world. That would be quite a final

    Sudden hunch?
    That was my tip before it began.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sudden hunch that the Final will be France V Argentina

    Mbappe V Messi, the two best players in the world. That would be quite a final

    Rather ironic if the first World Cup in a majority Muslim country is won by Argentina. Messi being a devout Roman Catholic and Pope Francis being Argentine
    Which schools did they go to though?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tunbridge Wells rated the unhappiest, Brighton rated the happiest a couple of years ago.

    What does that tell one about societies, communities and political values, I wonder.

    St Ives happiest, Hexham last year.

    Torfaen unhappiest

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19378791.torfaen-residents-least-happy-england-wales/

    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a42118286/st-ives-happiest-place-live/
    St Ives?!

    I know it very well and my sister lived there for many years, and my Mum

    It never struck me as notably happy. It is decidedly pretty and blessed with a mild climate, but the traffic is a nightmare, property prices are mad, and the tourists can be infuriating
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in St Ives.
    I got the best and cheapest haircut I've ever had in Dahab, Sinai
    Along with a carrier bag full of weed for about a quid if my experience there 30 years ago was anything to go by.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited December 2022
    This represents a 14% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Welsh Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+5)
    CON: 18% (-5)
    PC: 13% (-2)
    REF: 8% (+3)
    LDEM: 4% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 25 Nov - 01 Dec
    Chgs. w/ Sep

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1599447361218043905

    I reckon this isn't down to Starmer but the God that is Mark Drakeford.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited December 2022

    This represents a 19% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Welsh Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+5)
    CON: 18% (-5)
    PC: 13% (-2)
    REF: 8% (+3)
    LDEM: 4% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 25 Nov - 01 Dec
    Chgs. w/ Sep

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1599447361218043905

    The Drake continues his powerful mana. I wonder what the Senedd figures are?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    50 years ago today, Chuck Berry was number one.

    With "My Ding-a-ling".

    The 70's was such a great time for music....

    Which reminds me of the joke of that very moment, which as a ten year old was hilarious. "What do you get if you cross Chuck Berry with Cat Stevens? "I want you to play with my ding-a-ling, 'cos I can't keep it in". I wish I had left that in the primary school of 1972.
  • Carnyx said:

    This represents a 19% Con to Lab swing since the general election.

    Welsh Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+5)
    CON: 18% (-5)
    PC: 13% (-2)
    REF: 8% (+3)
    LDEM: 4% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 25 Nov - 01 Dec
    Chgs. w/ Sep

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1599447361218043905

    The Drake continues his powerful mana.
    Indeed, he's awesome, if Drakeford led the UK wide Labour Party, Labour would win every seat on the mainland.
  • 50 years ago today, Chuck Berry was number one.

    With "My Ding-a-ling".

    The 70's was such a great time for music....

    40 years ago today, The Jam were number one.

    With "Beat Surrender".

    The 80s were such a great time for music...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Really sorry to hear that. Take care and spend as much time as you find helpful here amongst friends.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
    If Brazil get there it will be a close shave.
    That's just nuts.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Sudden hunch that the Final will be France V Argentina

    Mbappe V Messi, the two best players in the world. That would be quite a final

    Sudden hunch?
    That was my tip before it began.
    Argentina did not look good vs Australia.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    And yet you've popped in to tell us how boring we all are?
    Sorry, I didn't intend to be mean

    It's more enthusiasm for ChatGPT

    These things will become firm friends. If you put them in an Alexa, or Siri, fucking hell. They will make you laugh or cry, they will know everything, they will be consoling or encouraging. ChatGPT has just told me exactly what to make with the spare ingredients in my fridge and how to cook it (a chowder, and it sounds delicious)

    ChatGPT instantly scaled it down to a meal for one or two, from 4-6, and then turned it from imperial to metric in a split second

    If Amazon are worried about Alexa, they should quit worrying and buy OpenAI (tho it is probably worth a trillion dollars now). Here it is. The perfect marriage of software and hardware
    you're awfully trusting
    You’re suggesting ChatGPT might try to poison him ?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    Hate to pooh pooh you but it is a leftie, a leader of the CWU, who is talking about a de facto General Strike.
    Do you normally accept people's opinions without questioning them? Particularly if they are "lefties"?

    Come on - exercise a bit of critical judgment, please. This isn't anything like the General Strike. Whether it's getting to be like the strikes of the 1970s might be more debatable, but let's not just accept unquestioningly the judgment of the first commentator that comes along.
  • ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
    If Brazil get there it will be a close shave.
    Amazon' Grace.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    The comparison with the General Strike is just plain ridiculous.

    I think it only demonstrates the extent to which Tories are losing touch with reality.

    Hate to pooh pooh you but it is a leftie, a leader of the CWU, who is talking about a de facto General Strike.
    Do you normally accept people's opinions without questioning them? Particularly if they are "lefties"?

    Come on - exercise a bit of critical judgment, please. This isn't anything like the General Strike. Whether it's getting to be like the strikes of the 1970s might be more debatable, but let's not just accept unquestioningly the judgment of the first commentator that comes along.
    You were wrong, don't go all HYUFD on me with shifting the goalposts.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I DO remember the Winter of Discontent which was also a very snowy and cold winter. It was pretty awful. But TSE @TheScreamingEagles says this:

    "What makes this period of industrial strife feel different is the sheer number of professions on strike, including the truly best of society, such as nurses and lawyers, without who society would struggle to function."

    I think that's absolutely spot on. In 1978/9 there was a militancy, almost a wrecking ball, by the unions. THIS time it really does feel much more as if it's largely decent people wanting a wage that keeps step with inflation.

    And the tories who encouraged the nation to clap our NHS workers have got to be extremely careful here ...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    @Leon

    I've spent the last 48 hours using the gpt chatbot in a variety of instances. It has written 5000 word spec scripts for me, analysed business problems, I've even fed it enough information about myself to psychoanalyse me (by creating a psychiatrist "character" and a "me" character), and had it write a stream of consciousness about what I might be thinking. It was accurate. I told it the project I am working on at the moment and asked it to create a slide deck outline. I then asked it to fill each individual slide with text - it was accurate. I asked it to use UK law to create a will for me. Done. I asked it to negotiate a more complex corporate contract I was involved in - a few errors, but it was largely correct.

    I cannot even begin to comprehend the number of jobs this either erases, or shakes to their very core. A lot of white collar jobs won't exist within a couple of years.

    As with Stable Diffusion, promptcraft is everything. But the difference between stable diffusion and this language model is that SD only creates pretty images. With the right prompt, GPT3.5 can be you psychatrist, your lover, your confidant, or even you. It can analyse you your darkest desires, explain to you in an academic essay the origins of your fears and phobias,or have a dialogue with itself about whether or not the "AI you" you have created is a real person. It can write a novel from your perspective as a child, about your childhood, with only a little prompting.

    This tech is terrifying, and is light years beyond stable diffusion making pretty pictures. It literally changes everything, and I think as more and more people play with the tech, they are going to realise what an earthquake this is.

    When we last spoke, I was using the chatbot as a google search, evaluating its answers to individual questions. This is useless - the way to use the chatbot is to interact with it enough to build a world it can learn from and respond to. Once you do that - as I say, it learns fast and effectively becomes "human". While it may have no inner sense of self, the question is, if you can't tell the difference (and I as a human can't tell the difference between its output and a real human, once it is trained well enough), does it matter?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    And there he is again

    France Brazil would be a great final
    If Brazil get there it will be a close shave.
    That's just nuts.
    More cracked.
This discussion has been closed.