Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Workers of the UK, unite! – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,048
edited December 2022 in General
Workers of the UK, unite! – politicalbetting.com

Generally speaking, do you think trade unions play a positive or negative role in Britain today?Positive role: 35% (+3 since June)Negative role: 34% (+8)Neither: 15% (-6)https://t.co/7Yg2pxzUUg pic.twitter.com/X9NWJBrURY

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • Test.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Test.

    Full marks. Were you cheating?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736
    Omnium said:

    Test.

    Full marks. Were you cheating?
    He gets 39 every day on Pop Master too....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    Read this as Wokers of the World ... obviously too influenced by PB.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632

    Test.

    Pakistan's to lose right now.
  • ydoethur said:

    Test.

    Pakistan's to lose right now.
    It's Adelaide 2006 all over again.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that, buddy - take care of yourself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear this Horse. Hope it has the desired effect.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,683
    Robert Jenrick admits basically (7.20) that the France migrant deal is a bust. Who could possibly predicted that?
    https://www.gbnews.uk/politics/exclusive-immigration-minister-admits-border-chaos-could-last-decades-weve-got-very-liberal-rules/400581
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    The tories are using the inflation that they themselves created, as an opportunity to cut the public sector wage bill.

    I’m surprised how poor the unions have been in communicating this basic fact.

    Sunak and Hunt should have uprated benefits and pensions AND the entire public sector wage bill by the same amount (average earnings), at the same time and then held a firm line on strikes. They would have taken the country with them.

    Instead, they messed it up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    On this subject, I am not too happy about the Armed Forces being used as scabs. The emergency service strikers have rostered emergency cover, and excluded areas such as ITU or Emergency departments, so by definition these personnel will be doing non-emergency strike breaking.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Chin up. All things must pass
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that, Horse.
    Wishing you all the best.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    Just back from my weekly shop at two supermarkets.
    Both the same. Rammed with customers trying to spend for Christmas.
    And utterly inadequately staffed. Only 4 tills open at a massive ASDA. One person on the kiosk to do tabs, lottery, parcels, returns and enquiries at the same time.
    The queue for the self scan stretched half the length of the store. Only two people to do the age restrictions on the alcohol.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
    Well if the top management don't understand these issues (or at least the need to understand these issues) then they're going bust. So again it's about capable middle management, and if it's capable then no need for unions.


    (I will say that the very worst of the unions is usually in situations where management has failed entirely, and middle management is non existant, and thus the workers become pretty useless - e.g. Miners in the 70/80s)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,868

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Best wishes, CHB.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,965

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Random guy on the internet is thinking about you, Horse. Hope it helps a little bit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
    Quite. Public sector, private sector, both.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    dixiedean said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that.
    At least you were able to realise and ask for help.
    Yes, good and brave move - all the very best, Horse.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    A very positive step in that you're dealing with your demons.

    Of course we all suspect you of chicanery. I'd imagine you'd hope for no less.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,847
    edited December 2022
    Unions work best in a country where there isn't constant class antagonism. It's not as bad in Britain as it was, but instead we often have winner-takes-all, provocative Thatcherism for the managerial class, and then often enough, quite understandably as a result too, resentful and conspiracist populism from the workers.

    Cf German workers on boards, for how it should work.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    The government are proposing a 20% minimum service during strikes.

    If that or the next Labour government can't get a grip on strikes expect a further swing to the right as to Thatcher in 1979 after the Heath 1970-74 and Wilson and Callaghan 1974-79 governments failed to control the unions
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,868
    I work in a non-unionised environment.

    If anyone is not happy with their pay rise or other terms and conditions, then their options are:

    - Suck it up
    - Become demotivated and put less effort in
    - Mutter about it to family, friends and colleagues
    - Complain to their boss in a toothless way
    - Threaten to leave
    - Leave

    This leads to a situation where disloyal employees who are good at their job do better than those who stay loyal and committed to the business.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.
  • Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    All the best.

    Hope you get well soon.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    But Lawyers always have the nicest houses, and are the best of hosts. They'll never be grumpy, and will always give above and beyond the minimum where charity is concerned.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    I suspect a Declaration of Interest was omitted.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    dixiedean said:

    Just back from my weekly shop at two supermarkets.
    Both the same. Rammed with customers trying to spend for Christmas.
    And utterly inadequately staffed. Only 4 tills open at a massive ASDA. One person on the kiosk to do tabs, lottery, parcels, returns and enquiries at the same time.
    The queue for the self scan stretched half the length of the store. Only two people to do the age restrictions on the alcohol.

    Sound a bit short-staffed. Not surprising that the more gruelling care work is riddled with vacant posts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    ydoethur said:

    Test.

    Pakistan's to lose right now.
    Should have batted another 10 overs. But at least they've forced a result.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,026

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Why am I skeptical this indicates a less oppressive future is in the offing?

    Iran's morality police, which is tasked with enforcing the country's Islamic dress code, is being disbanded, the country's attorney general says.

    Mohammad Jafar Montazeri's comments, yet to be confirmed by other agencies, were made at an event on Sunday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63850656
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    dixiedean said:

    Just back from my weekly shop at two supermarkets.
    Both the same. Rammed with customers trying to spend for Christmas.
    And utterly inadequately staffed. Only 4 tills open at a massive ASDA. One person on the kiosk to do tabs, lottery, parcels, returns and enquiries at the same time.
    The queue for the self scan stretched half the length of the store. Only two people to do the age restrictions on the alcohol.

    The problems come when the technology lets you down as well. My local Sainsbury's in East Ham this lunchtime had only one till -nothing unusual in that these days. Of the nine self-service checkouts, only six were working so that made everyone happy (or not).

    One of the issues (I'm told) with creating larger numbers of self-service checkouts is it increases the amount of shoplifting (our local Lidl permanently closed a third of its self-service checkouts because of unsupportable levels of shoplifting which, like fare evasion, is endemic).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,874
    I think the General Strike comparison is overdone, and probably the Winter of Discontent too.

    Too many settlements have already been reached I think.

    I'm interested by the numbers of people answering "XYZ should be allowed to go on strike", and the half the population for some of those who don't agree.

    AFAIK the only ones not allowed to go on strike are the Armed Forces and the Police, so all the rest *are* allowed to go on strike.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,874
    Omnium said:

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    But Lawyers always have the nicest houses, and are the best of hosts. They'll never be grumpy, and will always give above and beyond the minimum where charity is concerned.

    And you get a reminder every 6 minutes.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    Afternoon all :)

    Late to the previous thread but another fine example of the old adage the Devil can quote the scriptures to make a point.

    Anyone can point to a poll (or part of a poll) and use that to form an argument. The Opinium poll is an example of that - we were told last night a 14-point lead for Labour was a good poll for the Conservatives because every Reform supporter will run back to the Conservatives at the first hint of a real election.

    Apparently, not a single LD or Green voter will head to Labour but what do I know?
  • HYUFD said:

    The government are proposing a 20% minimum service during strikes.

    If that or the next Labour government can't get a grip on strikes expect a further swing to the right as to Thatcher in 1979 after the Heath 1970-74 and Wilson and Callaghan 1974-79 governments failed to control the unions

    How?

    We have low unemployment, a lot of people who are medically unfit to work and a lot of people who have essentially opted for very early retirement.

    We also have a government that really really doesn't want to pay whatever the going rate is for the staff it employs.

    The government can seek to restrict the effectiveness of public sector strikes, but it can't force people to work for them.

    So how does the government control public sector workers, exactly?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    edited December 2022
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
    Well if the top management don't understand these issues (or at least the need to understand these issues) then they're going bust. So again it's about capable middle management, and if it's capable then no need for unions.


    (I will say that the very worst of the unions is usually in situations where management has failed entirely, and middle management is non existant, and thus the workers become pretty useless - e.g. Miners in the 70/80s)
    Not really an answer. I asked who workers could turn to to enforce the law if the middle management were committing actual crimes and the top management were so scared of them they let them do it.

    And they have not gone bust. They're still out there. And several of the non-union staff are trapped because nobody will accept references from them. Without the union none of them would have been able to escape or get compensation for the forged references, or the threats of violence.

    I think you have a very strange idea of employment situations, bluntly.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    But Lawyers always have the nicest houses, and are the best of hosts. They'll never be grumpy, and will always give above and beyond the minimum where charity is concerned.

    And you get a reminder every 6 minutes.
    Nonsense. They'll not trouble you until the end of the quarter. And when the moon shines for the third time your blood will turn to frost as you view the script of the devil's endeavour.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    And yet you've popped in to tell us how boring we all are?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,637

    I work in a non-unionised environment.

    If anyone is not happy with their pay rise or other terms and conditions, then their options are:

    - Suck it up
    - Become demotivated and put less effort in
    - Mutter about it to family, friends and colleagues
    - Complain to their boss in a toothless way
    - Threaten to leave
    - Leave

    This leads to a situation where disloyal employees who are good at their job do better than those who stay loyal and committed to the business.

    Which seems fair, loyalty to an employer is a vaguely feudal sentiment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    And yet you've popped in to tell us how boring we all are?
    Sorry, I didn't intend to be mean

    It's more enthusiasm for ChatGPT

    These things will become firm friends. If you put them in an Alexa, or Siri, fucking hell. They will make you laugh or cry, they will know everything, they will be consoling or encouraging. ChatGPT has just told me exactly what to make with the spare ingredients in my fridge and how to cook it (a chowder, and it sounds delicious)

    ChatGPT instantly scaled it down to a meal for one or two, from 4-6, and then turned it from imperial to metric in a split second

    If Amazon are worried about Alexa, they should quit worrying and buy OpenAI (tho it is probably worth a trillion dollars now). Here it is. The perfect marriage of software and hardware
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    Lumme. Even if we beat Senegal we will struggle against France. Lethal
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643

    HYUFD said:

    The government are proposing a 20% minimum service during strikes.

    If that or the next Labour government can't get a grip on strikes expect a further swing to the right as to Thatcher in 1979 after the Heath 1970-74 and Wilson and Callaghan 1974-79 governments failed to control the unions

    How?

    We have low unemployment, a lot of people who are medically unfit to work and a lot of people who have essentially opted for very early retirement.

    We also have a government that really really doesn't want to pay whatever the going rate is for the staff it employs.

    The government can seek to restrict the effectiveness of public sector strikes, but it can't force people to work for them.

    So how does the government control public sector workers, exactly?
    You almost sense some on the Conservative side yearning for defeat, opposition and a chance to rid themselves of this "One Nation" nonsense for ever.

    Wages are the same old issue of supply and demand. It's been exacerbated by the pandemic and other issues.

    Anecdotally, we are struggling to find tradespeople (plumbers, locksmiths etc). It seems the solo traders couldn't survive Covid and either packed up, retired or joined the big firms. The amount of work for each professional is terrifying - we had an appointment with a plumber booked for 10-12 last Thursday, he arrived at 4.30 after calls to properties where the first bit of cold had led to them discovering the boiler wasn't working and they suddenly had no heat.

    The number of plumbers has fallen drastically - have they all gone back to Poland as the Mail would have us believe ?
  • Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    stodge said:

    As for Unions, I've been a Trade Union member and when I had an issue with my employer, the Union Rep was very helpful and the problem was resolved to my satisfaction.

    Unions provide real help to individuals in dispute with their employers whether it's through the correct application of legislation, the correct protocol for dispute resolution or simply moral support.

    My recollection is no one strikes as a first resort but as a last resort. After all, strikers lose a day's pay too.

    It all comes back to what did for Truss/Kwarteng (remember them?) and that's fairness. People will support a strike if they think those doing the striking have a legitimate grievance and I'm afraid Zahawi's condescension only irritates people more. I'm afraid his whole demeanour this morning was profoundly adversarial - strikers are not pro-Putin or want to ruin Christmas and no one should take that nonsense seriously.

    Yes, I have been on both sides in disciplinary disputes, as Investigator for the Trust and as TU rep.

    People who go to a disciplinary meeting without a Trade Union rep are lambs to the slaughter. Simply having one there makes management much more wary.

    Think Union dues are expensive? The cost of going without is far more expensive when things turn serious.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I regard unions as pretty much a universally bad thing. Their merit, if they have any, is that they prevent diabolical middle-management from messing things up.

    (My reasoning being that if the workers can't do their jobs, or the management don't understand business then there's no hope.)

    This is a more black and white view than I actually hold, but it's the gist of it.

    What about if the management don't understand or care about things like contract law, libel law and overtime restrictions and routinely break them, while destroying the records so government enforcement agencies refuse to act? Who do their staff turn to then?

    (Yes, I have in my time working with the Union had to deal with a private school that did all of that and far more.)
    Well if the top management don't understand these issues (or at least the need to understand these issues) then they're going bust. So again it's about capable middle management, and if it's capable then no need for unions.


    (I will say that the very worst of the unions is usually in situations where management has failed entirely, and middle management is non existant, and thus the workers become pretty useless - e.g. Miners in the 70/80s)
    Not really an answer. I asked who workers could turn to to enforce the law if the middle management were committing actual crimes and the top management were so scared of them they let them do it.

    And they have not gone bust. They're still out there. And several of the non-union staff are trapped because nobody will accept references from them. Without the union none of them would have been able to escape or get compensation for the forged references, or the threats of violence.

    I think you have a very strange idea of employment situations, bluntly.
    I was trying to make my statements a little like 1950s instructional films.

    Employment law now is heavily towards the worker, but companies know that they really have little chance of being challenged.
  • Boo! Expected to catch the running commentary on England v Senegal, but it's actually Poland v France first up!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
  • Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    All the best, CHB!
  • A Cambridge don who sparked protests by inviting a “gender critical” feminist author to speak to students has been appointed to the board of the Government’s Equality and Human Rights Commission.

    Professor Arif Ahmed, a philosophy lecturer at Gonville and Caius College, will be among experts charged with enforcing equalities legislation.

    He rose to prominence for his opposition to Cambridge students who attempted to shut down a talk he organised with Helen Joyce, a gender critical feminist.

    Ms Joyce has argued that men and women have been “redefined” by trans activists, with laws and policies “reshaped to privilege self-identified gender identity over biological sex”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/03/cambridge-academic-who-sparked-student-protests-appointed-governments/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that, and did not want to like the comment. Hope you are swiftly on the mend.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse. Take all the assistance available, and fight your corner if anyone fobs you off. I hope you find yourself content and serene as soon as is practical. Good luck and DM me if you want a chat. Pete
  • TresTres Posts: 2,650
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    And yet you've popped in to tell us how boring we all are?
    Sorry, I didn't intend to be mean

    It's more enthusiasm for ChatGPT

    These things will become firm friends. If you put them in an Alexa, or Siri, fucking hell. They will make you laugh or cry, they will know everything, they will be consoling or encouraging. ChatGPT has just told me exactly what to make with the spare ingredients in my fridge and how to cook it (a chowder, and it sounds delicious)

    ChatGPT instantly scaled it down to a meal for one or two, from 4-6, and then turned it from imperial to metric in a split second

    If Amazon are worried about Alexa, they should quit worrying and buy OpenAI (tho it is probably worth a trillion dollars now). Here it is. The perfect marriage of software and hardware
    you're awfully trusting
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    kle4 said:

    Why am I skeptical this indicates a less oppressive future is in the offing?

    Iran's morality police, which is tasked with enforcing the country's Islamic dress code, is being disbanded, the country's attorney general says.

    Mohammad Jafar Montazeri's comments, yet to be confirmed by other agencies, were made at an event on Sunday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63850656

    Shortly to be replaced by the moral standards checking police, in fine Soviet style.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,534
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    And yet you've popped in to tell us how boring we all are?
    Sorry, I didn't intend to be mean

    It's more enthusiasm for ChatGPT

    These things will become firm friends. If you put them in an Alexa, or Siri, fucking hell. They will make you laugh or cry, they will know everything, they will be consoling or encouraging. ChatGPT has just told me exactly what to make with the spare ingredients in my fridge and how to cook it (a chowder, and it sounds delicious)

    ChatGPT instantly scaled it down to a meal for one or two, from 4-6, and then turned it from imperial to metric in a split second

    If Amazon are worried about Alexa, they should quit worrying and buy OpenAI (tho it is probably worth a trillion dollars now). Here it is. The perfect marriage of software and hardware
    Microsoft and Infosys (hello Mrs Sunak!) are the two big corporates involved afaik (outside of the Y-Combinator people). I don't think Amazon have put a penny in to it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,542

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    I think we've all learned to take TSE at his own valuation. However a bit like with media characters such as Clarkson, I do wonder at times if he really IS completely serious.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    On the other hand, I'm sat here with both a ceiling fan and a standing fan on at full blast at 9pm!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    On the other hand, I'm sat here with both a ceiling fan and a standing fan on at full blast at 9pm!
    You can't do without the fan-club?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
  • Cookie said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your
    demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
    Best wishes CHB, and good advice Cookie.

    For me it’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, as I’m struggling at the moment (including issues with my appearance) so know running would help all round.

    But despite knowing this, can I make myself do it, and can I stop eating and drinking too much? Nope…

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736

    Lawyers are the very best of society? Might not instantly spring to mind for everyone.

    But lawyers get to write those rules...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    "lips pursed like the top of a drawstring bag" is also perfect. That's Sturgeon
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,534

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Take care CHB - I hope you get good help and you are back with us soon.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Book a flight man, book a flight!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,683

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    To quote Oswald Cobblepot, Sturgeon played Covid like a harp from hell. She seized the opportunity presented by the pandemic; Boris and his team failed to seize it.
  • I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Ghastly man shares my prejudices so is not quite so ghastly.
    Always the PB way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Most of the time as they didn't do anything illegal just failed to adapt their businesses to changing consumer tastes
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Though the earliest sunset is the middle of next week. From there, we start getting glimmers of hope.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    Pure Isabel Oakeshott. Every word dripping vitriol. A book best ignored
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,534

    Cookie said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your
    demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
    Best wishes CHB, and good advice Cookie.

    For me it’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, as I’m struggling at the moment (including issues with my appearance) so know running would help all round.

    But despite knowing this, can I make myself do it, and can I stop eating and drinking too much? Nope…

    Are you me?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,847
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Most of the time as they didn't do anything illegal just failed to adapt their businesses to changing consumer tastes
    Many British companies have been run with zero long-term concern, on the basis purely of shareholder value. Look again across the channel, or across to Scandinavia. Europe, particularly comparable nations in Northern Europe, offers Britain ( a part of ) the solution to many of these long-standing social, corporate and union problems, not the problem itself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    No better in Devon, sad to report. Went into Dartmouth yesterday and it was utterly devoid of any festive cheer. Cutting it late this year.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,534

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Though the earliest sunset is the middle of next week. From there, we start getting glimmers of hope.
    'What _was_ hope?' https://giphy.com/gifs/bbc-david-mitchell-british-comedy-PWl5x9O4zuNXO

    A meme I got good use out of during lockdown(s)...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736
    Can we check the French haven't put clingfilm over their goal?
  • Leon said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    "lips pursed like the top of a drawstring bag" is also perfect. That's Sturgeon
    "I hope you washed your arse this morning. It's about to be kissed by a King First Minister."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Ghastly man shares my prejudices so is not quite so ghastly.
    Always the PB way.
    Me or Hancock?😀
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Book a flight man, book a flight!
    I'm OK for now, ta

    ChatGPT is keeping distracted from the worst of the weather. But I have a flight to the sun booked for New Year's Eve, and - family circs permitting - off I go

    Ins'allah
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,683

    Cookie said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your
    demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
    Best wishes CHB, and good advice Cookie.

    For me it’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, as I’m struggling at the moment (including issues with my appearance) so know running would help all round.

    But despite knowing this, can I make myself do it, and can I stop eating and drinking too much? Nope…

    Whilst we're dispensing helpful advice you might find it beneficial to change the internal conversation around eating/drinking away from 'eating too much vs. restricting food' to 'my body is telling me to eat, may want something I'm not giving it - how can I work with my body and nourish it better through this winter, thus making me feel more satiated?'.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,617

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Hi CHB3. Hope it all goes well for you.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    Leon said:

    Lumme. Even if we beat Senegal we will struggle against France. Lethal

    Not if Poland beat them. They came close a few moments ago. Famous last words...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Good afternoon, I hope you are all keeping well.

    Sadly I have taken a big step back and have had to re-admit myself to therapy.

    Sorry to hear that Horse.
    As one of many steps to tackling your
    demons, can I propose that you go out for a brisk walk or a run? A run works better for ke, since it is quicker to get the blood flowing, but we're all different. It'sdifficult to shift yourself when you're feeling melancholy, but it's worth doing.
    Best wishes CHB, and good advice Cookie.

    For me it’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, as I’m struggling at the moment (including issues with my appearance) so know running would help all round.

    But despite knowing this, can I make myself do it, and can I stop eating and drinking too much? Nope…

    Are you me?
    Must be an epidemic of it.

    *settles down with pre-dinner hot buttered crumpet and hot chocolate...*
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    No better in Devon, sad to report. Went into Dartmouth yesterday and it was utterly devoid of any festive cheer. Cutting it late this year.
    Despite being cold and damp the Christmas fair today in Clarendon Park Leicester was heaving. Mrs Foxy did her bit for boosting consumer spending.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738

    Leon said:

    Lumme. Even if we beat Senegal we will struggle against France. Lethal

    Not if Poland beat them. They came close a few moments ago. Famous last words...
    Leonadamus is trying to curse France methinks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
  • Leon said:

    Lumme. Even if we beat Senegal we will struggle against France. Lethal

    Not if Poland beat them. They came close a few moments ago. Famous last words...
    Here's Chopin'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Though the earliest sunset is the middle of next week. From there, we start getting glimmers of hope.
    I actually prefer it dark, so you can't see how horribly wet and grey it is

    And I like seeing all the lights, from houses and streets, on a cold dark London evening: the gold and crimson pooling in the puddles. The last of the russet autumn leaves pasted on a pavement
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,736

    Leon said:

    Lumme. Even if we beat Senegal we will struggle against France. Lethal

    Not if Poland beat them. They came close a few moments ago. Famous last words...
    Here's Chopin'.
    Are you Brahms and Liszt?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    No better in Devon, sad to report. Went into Dartmouth yesterday and it was utterly devoid of any festive cheer. Cutting it late this year.
    Visited Baths Christmas Market on Friday. Lots of overpriced tat that no one really needs or wants. Lots of foraged/wild food. Clearly people want the idea of foraging ingredients but can’t be arsed to actually do it.
    And then went to Salisburys Christmas Market and it was virtually non-existent. Very sad.

    We are on the brink of a pretty cold spell of weather, and some will get snow. It’ll certainly feel a bit more like a Dickensian Christmas. I just hope people can stay warm. We are lucky, not everyone is.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    The strange thing is the Winter of Discontent happened more than 40 years ago - it's not just history, it's ancient history. Yet the Unions still have it as an albatross around them (and not in a Monty Python way). The 3-day week was nearly 50 years ago.

    Attitudes towards Unions seem ingrained around this notion of hostility, strikes and anti-public sector attitudes (usually starting with the pensions). There seems little similar resentment or challenge toward senior management - why, for example, aren't those running the rail network, the NHS, the Post Office and other sectors affected by strike action pilloried for their inability to resolve this?

    A strike is always the fault of the Union, never the management.

    I also wonder why those who ran Woolworth's, Curry's, BHS and all those other organisations which went bust costing thousands of jobs were never put on trial or named, blamed and shamed for running their businesses into the ground.

    Most of the time as they didn't do anything illegal just failed to adapt their businesses to changing consumer tastes
    Most of the time Unions didn't do anything illegal either - successive Conservative Governments have used legislation to make the hurdle for starting a strike that much higher in terms of ballots because there was a genuine concern more "moderate" Union members were being coerced into voting for strike action by extremists.

    The consequence of the failure of these companies isn't just the failure of successive layers of senior management but the fact thousands of hard working employees found themselves out of work with little or no compensation.

    It's different in the public sector though I suspect many Councils are close to being financially insolvent.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Carnyx said:

    I may not like Hancock, and I am sure he got a lot wrong, but he has nailed Sturgeon there exactly. Her briefings at 12, quite deliberately before the national briefings, were a disgrace. And yes I know health is devolved. She was receiving privileged information and using it for her own purposes.
    Nonsense. She had to catch the evening news and that was the only way to do it. You woiuldn't do it at the same time as the non-devolved announcement.

    "Privileged information" ... which was about to be announced.
    Surely just after would be appropriate for a devolved government? A bit like my local Council?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm afraid to say that ChatGPT is considerably more entertaining than PB on a slow winter Sunday

    33 degrees here in daytime, 25 by night :lol:
    Consider me WELL JEL

    It is classic horrible British winter weather here. Cold, dank, depressing, getting notably dark at 3pm. UGH
    Though the earliest sunset is the middle of next week. From there, we start getting glimmers of hope.
    I actually prefer it dark, so you can't see how horribly wet and grey it is

    And I like seeing all the lights, from houses and streets, on a cold dark London evening: the gold and crimson pooling in the puddles. The last of the russet autumn leaves pasted on a pavement
    Shortly out to be Santa for the local lions club charity collection. Will be interesting to see how many houses have their lights up, and how many answer the door after 7…
This discussion has been closed.