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The exodus of CON MPs continues – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    Driver said:

    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    To be fair we had the actual vote in 2016 without defining what Brexit would mean.
    Subsequently generally agreed to have been a mistake.
    Not by Leavers since they know any single form of Leave would have lost to Remain.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    Annoyingly - given the circumstances of its award and the Neanderthal sensibilities on show by Qatar and FIFA - this is turning into a truly brilliant World Cup.

    Yep. As was Russia. A disappointing lack of correlation between the liberal democratic credentials of the host and the quality of the tournament.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,243

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Really interesting, thanks. Don't know if the regional subsamples are big enough to be significant but those SW and NE trends look big. I wonder if the SW number could point to a Lib Dem renaissance in that part of the world?
    Kind of depressing that support for rejoin growing mostly because remainers are getting more unsupportive of the new status quo and not much because leavers are changing their mind.
    Leavers are changing their mind. It is just that the type of leaver who is changing their mind are young and educated. They are falling in line with their peers.

    Should this change the brexit stance of any of the parties, if different cohorts have a clearer viewpoint?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,649
    I wonder whether petrol prices will begin to drop before Xmas. WTI is down below $80 and sterling steady at $1.18-1.20, it should lead to a 7-8p drop in pump prices as my finger in the air guess.
  • SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    felix said:

    I notice the relative silence about PMQs. A very strong performance by Sunak.

    Maybe because he knew nobody was watching? Like my golf. I play on my own and I'm terrific, pars galore. Put me in a pressure 4 ball and I crumble.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,773
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,640
    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    Even though the Euro can be kicked into the long grass if the UK rejoined as it’s not a requirement within a set timeframe it will likely become a huge issue if there was another ref campaign .

    I just don’t see enough Brits putting their concerns around the Euro aside.


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    Annoyingly - given the circumstances of its award and the Neanderthal sensibilities on show by Qatar and FIFA - this is turning into a truly brilliant World Cup.

    Absolutely agreed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    Just noticed that Canada are playing tonight. I didn't even know they had qualified.

    I have vague recollections of their appearing in a WC when I was a boy – Mexico 86? – but that might have been another Commonwealth country. NZ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    edited November 2022
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    To be fair we had the actual vote in 2016 without defining what Brexit would mean.
    Subsequently generally agreed to have been a mistake.
    Not by Leavers since they know any single form of Leave would have lost to Remain.
    Eh? The entire point of Cameron not defining what Leave meant was so that he could use Project Fear to depress the Leave vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 38,060
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    A de facto GE referendum isn’t going to make the blindest bit of difference because even if the SNP managed to get over 50% of the vote in a GE the answer from Westminster can still be “no.”

    Scotland can only legally secede from the Union via an agreement with the Westminster parliament. Todays ruling is clear.

    So the SNP need to work on getting the UK government to agree to introduce a constitutional framework for leaving the Union and writing that mechanism into UK legislation. There is a deal to be done there, I think, but the SNP will need to acknowledge that there will be give and take. That might mean, for instance, long intervals between votes, and votes only being triggered by formal request of a majority of the Scottish parliament, or similar.

    Yes, quite. But the Nats will have to accept they don't get a referendum whenever they want, and not even if they win at Holyrood. In return, Westminster will provide the trigger that cannot be denied

    A generation must have MEANING. 25-30 years? Then, when that has elapsed, if a majority of MSPs say Give us a vote, Westminster cannot deny it
    Quite the opposite. Have a vote whenever the majority in Hollyrood wants one. Twice a year if they life. If the answer keeps being “no” then let the voters conclude (or not) that the SNP is taking the piss and they ought to elect someone else. All these decisions are for the Scots to take.
    Spot on. No other way is tenable. All this waffle about coding into law some sort of "once in a generation opportunity" ... I mean, c'mon, honestly.
    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    A de facto GE referendum isn’t going to make the blindest bit of difference because even if the SNP managed to get over 50% of the vote in a GE the answer from Westminster can still be “no.”

    Scotland can only legally secede from the Union via an agreement with the Westminster parliament. Todays ruling is clear.

    So the SNP need to work on getting the UK government to agree to introduce a constitutional framework for leaving the Union and writing that mechanism into UK legislation. There is a deal to be done there, I think, but the SNP will need to acknowledge that there will be give and take. That might mean, for instance, long intervals between votes, and votes only being triggered by formal request of a majority of the Scottish parliament, or similar.

    Yes, quite. But the Nats will have to accept they don't get a referendum whenever they want, and not even if they win at Holyrood. In return, Westminster will provide the trigger that cannot be denied

    A generation must have MEANING. 25-30 years? Then, when that has elapsed, if a majority of MSPs say Give us a vote, Westminster cannot deny it
    Quite the opposite. Have a vote whenever the majority in Hollyrood wants one. Twice a year if they life. If the answer keeps being “no” then let the voters conclude (or not) that the SNP is taking the piss and they ought to elect someone else. All these decisions are for the Scots to take.
    Spot on. No other way is tenable. All this waffle about coding into law some sort of "once in a generation opportunity" ... I mean, c'mon, honestly.
    So the people and businesses of the UK have to constantly live with the threat of an independence referendum every 6 months? How is that a tenable proposition?
    It's not. It is ridiculous. @kinabalu is being childish
    On the contrary. You (and some others) are doing a mix of trolling and wishcasting. I'm analyzing the situation, getting to the heart of it, and explaining Sturgeon's rationale and strategy.
    Except that the SNP themselves are asking for what I am suggesting


    "Ian Blackford, the SNP’s leader at Westminster, is responding to Jack.

    He says the “thoughtless triumphalism” of unionists will not last long.

    He says the Scotland Act should be amended to say the Scottish people have the right to choose their future"


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/23/scottish-independence-referendum-supreme-court-scotland-pmqs-sunak-starmer-uk-politics-live-latest-news


    He is right. The Scotland Act should be amended so that the Nats have a guaranteed democratic route to a referendum, which is more than they have ever had before. But the price must be a long time gap between votes, the UK cannot abide the uncertainty of a vote every five years. It should be 20 or 25 years. A real generation

    That's where a compromise might be found which respects the needs and rights of all sides

    If the Scots had another vote tomorrow and narrowly voted NO, the SNP would be back in a few weeks demanding another on whatever grounds. They won't say Oh well, we give up

    You simply ignore this, either out of stupidity or a weird wilful naivety
    But he doesn't mention the plainly ridiculous notion of coding "once a generation" does he?

    You need to replace illogical prejudice with a working order thinking cap. At present you aren't worth reading on this topic.
    Well if he refuses to respect the once in a generation 2014 referendum, then no amendment to the Scotland Act and after the SC ruling the UK government can effectively refuse indyref2 forever
    It can't. If support for Sindy in Scotland grows and is persistently over 50% - a big if, yes, but let's assume - there's no way it won't happen. The UK isn't tenable in this modern democratic age as a forced anti-consensual union.
    Completely agree. I also don’t understand those on here who would want it to be. If any part of a union looks like it might want to leave then you have to test the theory and let it go if proven. Why keep them in against their will?
    I believe one rarely aknowledged factor is that *some* English people have a deep, atavistic fear of living in a country with a land border. Rather than confront this they generate hypocritical & dishonest guff about once in a generation, the oppressiveness of the EU v. the freedom loving UK and claim insight into what Scots really want.
    Yeah, I don't want the country I love - Great Britain - torn into pieces and with a land border across the middle. I guess that makes me a hypocritical Fascist. Sure
    Indeed it does and undemocratic and a complete and utter bellend to boot
    It's not undemocratic to not want it until there has been a vote in favour of it first. It might be undemocratic to not allow such a vote, but that's a seperate though related issue.
    It is undemocratic to forcibly ban it for 25-30 years at the whim of the person banning it , given they hav enothing to do with it in the first place.
  • Big rise in gambling addictions putting suicidal young men in hospital
    NHS lambasts ‘predatory’ betting firms amid 42% increase in demand for specialist clinics

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/big-rise-in-gambling-addictions-g6nd7jkmp?ts=1669219292067

    "The clinics offer addiction therapy, including medication usually given to opioid users to reduce cravings. Patients can be sent by GPs or hospitals or self-refer and usually spend several months in treatment. One in three have attempted suicide; 57 per cent report thinking they would be better off dead. There are more than 400 gambling-related suicides a year in England."

    Sobering stuff
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    To be fair we had the actual vote in 2016 without defining what Brexit would mean.
    Subsequently generally agreed to have been a mistake.
    Not by Leavers since they know any single form of Leave would have lost to Remain.
    Eh? The entire point of Cameron not defining what Leave meant was so that he could use Project Fear to depress the Leave vote.
    Ho ho.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125

    Just noticed that Canada are playing tonight. I didn't even know they had qualified.

    I have vague recollections of their appearing in a WC when I was a boy – Mexico 86? – but that might have been another Commonwealth country. NZ?

    1986, yes. They lost to France, Hungary and the Soviet Union without scoring a goal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_at_the_FIFA_World_Cup
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,258
    Lowest growth in the G7.

    2013 disposable income levels only back by 2024.

    "The British people are paying a moron premium. What's the point of having the Conservatives in government with that legacy?" 🔥@rushanaraali

    Hunt argues you can tell "any story you like" with data...🤔

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1595445757389066240/video/1
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 38,060

    SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538

    Roddy is off his nut if he really tries to pretend that all judges , lawyers etc are impartial , my large butt?
  • Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,876

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    And the average Brit is way less a fan of the EU than that. All these hot takes about how people want to rejoin the EU ignore that when asked most people don't want the Euro, freedom of movement, or the single market, etc. An EU without all that would be one that even Farage could stomach.
  • Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    To be fair we had the actual vote in 2016 without defining what Brexit would mean.
    Subsequently generally agreed to have been a mistake.
    Not by Leavers since they know any single form of Leave would have lost to Remain.
    Eh? The entire point of Cameron not defining what Leave meant was so that he could use Project Fear to depress the Leave vote.
    If so, he was more of a chump than I thought. And I don't particularly think he was a chump.

    "Vote for this smiley but otherwise blank screen that you can project your hopes onto" always beats "Vote for this detailed proposal with explicit downsides".

    Cameron's failing was being a bit lazy and very overconfident.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125
    edited November 2022

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    It's most likely the seller using a deliberately cheap slow delivery service because they think their customers prioritise price over speed.

    I've had items from both Germany and the Netherlands in the last six months in 2-3 days like usual.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,675
    Goal to Spain!
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,005
    pillsbury said:

    Big rise in gambling addictions putting suicidal young men in hospital
    NHS lambasts ‘predatory’ betting firms amid 42% increase in demand for specialist clinics

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/big-rise-in-gambling-addictions-g6nd7jkmp?ts=1669219292067

    "The clinics offer addiction therapy, including medication usually given to opioid users to reduce cravings. Patients can be sent by GPs or hospitals or self-refer and usually spend several months in treatment. One in three have attempted suicide; 57 per cent report thinking they would be better off dead. There are more than 400 gambling-related suicides a year in England."

    Sobering stuff

    The Gambling Commission are a disgrace of an organisation who let betting companies get away with everything.
  • Oh well, no upset in this match :(
  • IanB2 said:

    Goal to Spain!

    If it's to Spain, surely you mean

    Goooooooooooooooooooool.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,493

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    Perfume is a little trickier; there are regulations on its shipment. But even so, I had a bottle of posh perfume from Paris delivered in 3 days (Fedex, I think) last month.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 43,011
    edited November 2022

    IanB2 said:

    Goal to Spain!

    If it's to Spain, surely you mean

    Goooooooooooooooooooool.
    "Move Klose" - Phyllis Nelson

    "Whoa, Zidane, whoa, Zidane
    "Zidane next to me
    "Zidane, Zidane, Zidane, Zidane, Zidane
    "Zidane next to me" - James
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538

    Ah yes the famous SNP politician, Neal Hanvey *checks notes* Alba Party Westminster Group Leader?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    You can't go defining other people's love, William.
  • Spain looking ominous for German hopes
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,675
    2:0
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    Driver said:

    Just noticed that Canada are playing tonight. I didn't even know they had qualified.

    I have vague recollections of their appearing in a WC when I was a boy – Mexico 86? – but that might have been another Commonwealth country. NZ?

    1986, yes. They lost to France, Hungary and the Soviet Union without scoring a goal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_at_the_FIFA_World_Cup
    Ha! Well the only way is up I guess!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    Spain looking ominous for German hopes

    Haven't done the maths but I guess the Germans could be as good as out if they lose to Spain?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125

    Spain looking ominous for German hopes

    Their best chance might be Costa Rica beating Japan.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125
    edited November 2022

    Spain looking ominous for German hopes

    Haven't done the maths but I guess the Germans could be as good as out if they lose to Spain?
    Depends, if Costa Rica beat Japan, then Germany beat Costa Rica and Spain beat Japan, that leaves Germany, Japan and Costa Rica all on 3 and it comes down to goal difference between the three.

    Edit: JPN-CRC is before GER-ESP on Sunday, so by kick-off in that latter game it could be "lose and out" for Germany.
  • Alistair said:

    SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538

    Ah yes the famous SNP politician, Neal Hanvey *checks notes* Alba Party Westminster Group Leader?

    Sir Rodney of Dunlop barely knows what country or tax regime he's in so be gentle on him.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,177
    edited November 2022
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    Perfume is a little trickier; there are regulations on its shipment. But even so, I had a bottle of posh perfume from Paris delivered in 3 days (Fedex, I think) last month.
    Did there used to be regs on perfume pre-Brexit?

    I would imagine not.

    So it’s a bit shitter then.

    And as a country we now have to negotiate that little bit of shitness hundreds of thousands of times a day.

    It’s shit. Fuck Brexit.

    I just know that when I get a new passport I’m going to be one of those arseholes who gets a cover for it. But instead of being the kind of driving glove wearing golf club bore who got a blue cover for our EU passports I’ll be a fucking irritating self-hating rootless cosmopolitan Brit with maroon cover over my blue Brexshit one.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    My Monday evening musings on the relative decline of Asian football didn't age well I see.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,675
    Penalty to Spain
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    Perfume is a little trickier; there are regulations on its shipment. But even so, I had a bottle of posh perfume from Paris delivered in 3 days (Fedex, I think) last month.
    Did there used to be regs on perfume?
    They can't go through the normal post, for one. https://www.upu.int/en/Universal-Postal-Union/Outreach-Campaigns/Dangerous-Goods
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538

    Ah yes the famous SNP politician, Neal Hanvey *checks notes* Alba Party Westminster Group Leader?

    Sir Rodney of Dunlop barely knows what country or tax regime he's in so be gentle on him.
    To be fair that was entirely Carlotta's fuck up not Roddy
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited November 2022

    Just noticed that Canada are playing tonight. I didn't even know they had qualified.

    I have vague recollections of their appearing in a WC when I was a boy – Mexico 86? – but that might have been another Commonwealth country. NZ?

    They topped the CONCACAF group ahead of Mexico and USA. They are very well coached (by an Englishman) and have a star in Alfonso Davies of Bayern.
    Tremendous pace on the counter attack is their strength.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,265
    Japan beat Costa Rica. Spain beat Germany.

    Germany going home.

    Anyone want to bet against either of those results?
  • Driver said:

    Just noticed that Canada are playing tonight. I didn't even know they had qualified.

    I have vague recollections of their appearing in a WC when I was a boy – Mexico 86? – but that might have been another Commonwealth country. NZ?

    1986, yes. They lost to France, Hungary and the Soviet Union without scoring a goal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_at_the_FIFA_World_Cup
    Ha! Well the only way is up...!
    ...for you and Neymar!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    To be fair we had the actual vote in 2016 without defining what Brexit would mean.
    Subsequently generally agreed to have been a mistake.
    Not by Leavers since they know any single form of Leave would have lost to Remain.
    Eh? The entire point of Cameron not defining what Leave meant was so that he could use Project Fear to depress the Leave vote.
    If so, he was more of a chump than I thought. And I don't particularly think he was a chump.

    "Vote for this smiley but otherwise blank screen that you can project your hopes onto" always beats "Vote for this detailed proposal with explicit downsides".

    Cameron's failing was being a bit lazy and very overconfident.
    Decided to shy away from 'blue on blue' attacks with a view to party management after he'd secured the Remain win. Whadda mistaka to maka.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,265
    "This underdog has well and truly been put in its kennel already...."

    Arf.
  • “Scotland is not oppressed and we have no need to be liberated”

    Alex Salmond, Your Scotland Your Referendum, January 2012


    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1595454588529819649
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,296
    .
    biggles said:

    UK in a Changing Europe think tank have undertaken an analysis as to whom are changing their views over Brexit.

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

    Younger voters and the more educated have become even more against Brexit, whilst the old and less educated individuals remain pro Brexit.

    This suggests a widening of opinion.

    Most of these polls are meaningless until someone defines what “rejoin” would actually mean. Since we couldn’t rejoin on the old terms, you need to poll on the euro and Schengen.
    A movement of opinion on that scale isn’t meaningless, given the question is the same each time.
    You can argue about what it might mean, of course. But you can’t ignore it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    Perfume is a little trickier; there are regulations on its shipment. But even so, I had a bottle of posh perfume from Paris delivered in 3 days (Fedex, I think) last month.
    Did there used to be regs on perfume pre-Brexit?

    I would imagine not.

    So it’s a bit shitter then.

    And as a country we now have to negotiate that little bit of shitness hundreds of thousands of times a day.

    It’s shit. Fuck Brexit.

    I just know that when I get a new passport I’m going to be one of those arseholes who gets a cover for it. But instead of being the kind of driving glove wearing golf club bore who got a blue cover for our EU passports I’ll be a fucking irritating self-hating rootless cosmopolitan Brit with maroon cover over my blue Brexshit one.
    My brother still flies his EU flag and he lives in Essex. You should meet up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,135
    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    And the average Brit is way less a fan of the EU than that. All these hot takes about how people want to rejoin the EU ignore that when asked most people don't want the Euro, freedom of movement, or the single market, etc. An EU without all that would be one that even Farage could stomach.
    The Euro a major manifestation of EU integration *today*

    Not that long ago it didn’t exist.

    I thought, just before the referendum that Remain would win. But another vote would be Out, by big numbers, when a common EU healthcare system was proposed.

    This is because such a system would be mixed provision. And it would be cold day in hell before Labour voters would allow “BUPA to dismantle the BHS”.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    Kanye West can be laid @ 20 for GOP veep nominee if anybody has a care.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,265
    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    kinabalu said:

    Kanye West can be laid @ 20 for GOP veep nominee if anybody has a care.

    Is that a 5% return over 21 months with an added (very small) risk of losing your capital?

    No thanks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,344

    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    And the average Brit is way less a fan of the EU than that. All these hot takes about how people want to rejoin the EU ignore that when asked most people don't want the Euro, freedom of movement, or the single market, etc. An EU without all that would be one that even Farage could stomach.
    The Euro a major manifestation of EU integration *today*

    Not that long ago it didn’t exist.

    I thought, just before the referendum that Remain would win. But another vote would be Out, by big numbers, when a common EU healthcare system was proposed.

    This is because such a system would be mixed provision. And it would be cold day in hell before Labour voters would allow “BUPA to dismantle the BHS”.
    It's a different debate but I wonder if we're reaching the point where Labour could get away with slaying the sacred cow of the NHS.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp
  • SNP MPs losing it:

    I understand disappointment. I understand anger.

    I do not understand the basis upon which an elected parliamentarian can claim - as this surely does - bias on the part of “UK state apparatus”. UKSC is sworn to, and does, judge impartially.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595409657543233538

    This is the same SCOTUK that put Boris Johnson in his place over the prorogation crisis, to say SCOTUK is the UK state apparatus is the rantings of a sore loser.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    kinabalu said:

    Kanye West can be laid @ 20 for GOP veep nominee if anybody has a care.

    Is that a 5% return over 21 months with an added (very small) risk of losing your capital?

    No thanks.
    Yes, it only works if you're building a lay book on several names.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Tempted to respond: 'Up yours! I'm enjoying it.' but could be misconstrued.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,638
    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp

    Also on TWAO today.

    Genuine question: Why aren't iPhones made in a wholly automated factory?

    Should @Leon ask one of his AI friends to look into it?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,054

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Watching your own colonoscopy is of course an intensely "interesting" experience.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,773
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
    Near but not quite. Yes, she would like independence, but it is plain that, on the consistent polling and the last referendum and the additional problems (especially England/Scotland border) there would be after Brexit, it can't happen. There are not the votes.

    NS is a politician. She knows it can't happen. But can't say so. She wants to stay in power - she is in politics. The only way she can do so is by NOT having Ref2. When Ref2 is lost she would have to resign like Salmond.

    So delay (like the SC nonsense) false prospectuses (next election as referendum etc) keeps the pan on the boil while she exercises the maximum power a Scottish government can have.

    I totally sympathise with NS. She is a great politician.

    BTW even if she won a Ref2, it would be a 52/48 kind of thing, and as we know that doesn't settle things all that well.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    And the average Brit is way less a fan of the EU than that. All these hot takes about how people want to rejoin the EU ignore that when asked most people don't want the Euro, freedom of movement, or the single market, etc. An EU without all that would be one that even Farage could stomach.
    The Euro a major manifestation of EU integration *today*

    Not that long ago it didn’t exist.

    I thought, just before the referendum that Remain would win. But another vote would be Out, by big numbers, when a common EU healthcare system was proposed.

    This is because such a system would be mixed provision. And it would be cold day in hell before Labour voters would allow “BUPA to dismantle the BHS”.
    It's a different debate but I wonder if we're reaching the point where Labour could get away with slaying the sacred cow of the NHS.
    QTWTAIN
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,802

    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp

    Also on TWAO today.

    Genuine question: Why aren't iPhones made in a wholly automated factory?

    Should @Leon ask one of his AI friends to look into it?
    The same reason few things are made in wholly automated factories (e.g. cars): some things are still best done by human hands. And machines need maintenance. Parts need checking.

    AIUI there are very few lights-out factories, and most of those are for 'simple' things, or things where humans simply cannot do it (e.g. chip wafer manufacture)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,135
    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    And the average Brit is way less a fan of the EU than that. All these hot takes about how people want to rejoin the EU ignore that when asked most people don't want the Euro, freedom of movement, or the single market, etc. An EU without all that would be one that even Farage could stomach.
    The Euro is the

    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp

    Also on TWAO today.

    Genuine question: Why aren't iPhones made in a wholly automated factory?

    Should @Leon ask one of his AI friends to look into it?
    Meat robots are currently cheaper for some tasks, in China.

    Treating humans as meat robots tends to irritate the humans in question.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,497
    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    Even though the Euro can be kicked into the long grass if the UK rejoined as it’s not a requirement within a set timeframe it will likely become a huge issue if there was another ref campaign .

    I just don’t see enough Brits putting their concerns around the Euro aside.


    Living in Spain I'd love to be in the Euro - the £ would have been and be much more stable had we joined. However I agree, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,370
    OGH said "Over the last week or so 2 or 3 Tory MPs have announced that they will not be standing at the next general election and William Wragg, the member member for Hazelgrove is just the latest.
    His seat was held by the Lib Dems until the 2015 and Davey’s party is working very hard to win it back."

    I cannot but wonder if the good Lib Dem organisation in Hazelgrove and the hard work they are putting in there has as much to do with Mr Wragg's decision to stand down, as dissatisfaction with the Conservative Party leadership in recent years.
  • algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
    Near but not quite. Yes, she would like independence, but it is plain that, on the consistent polling and the last referendum and the additional problems (especially England/Scotland border) there would be after Brexit, it can't happen. There are not the votes.

    NS is a politician. She knows it can't happen. But can't say so. She wants to stay in power - she is in politics. The only way she can do so is by NOT having Ref2. When Ref2 is lost she would have to resign like Salmond.

    So delay (like the SC nonsense) false prospectuses (next election as referendum etc) keeps the pan on the boil while she exercises the maximum power a Scottish government can have.

    I totally sympathise with NS. She is a great politician.

    BTW even if she won a Ref2, it would be a 52/48 kind of thing, and as we know that doesn't settle things all that well.

    She wants to stay in power? Haven't you received the PB Yoon memo (2016-22) that's she's itching to be off to some UN or similar high powered sinecure?
  • I've read & re-read @UNSRVAW letter which sets out her concerns about @scotgov Gender Recognition Reform Bill (GRR). It's devastating in its critique, which I will try to summarise in a short thread. http://bit.ly/3tUpKCd....

    Coming ahead of the global 16 Days of Action Against Gender Based Violence, this is hugely embarrassing for @ShonaRobison @NicolaSturgeon who insist their bill reflects international best practice. The UN says it does not, instead it echoes concerns of grassroots women activists.


    https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1595418591624560641
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    edited November 2022
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
    Near but not quite. Yes, she would like independence, but it is plain that, on the consistent polling and the last referendum and the additional problems (especially England/Scotland border) there would be after Brexit, it can't happen. There are not the votes.

    NS is a politician. She knows it can't happen. But can't say so. She wants to stay in power - she is in politics. The only way she can do so is by NOT having Ref2. When Ref2 is lost she would have to resign like Salmond.

    So delay (like the SC nonsense) false prospectuses (next election as referendum etc) keeps the pan on the boil while she exercises the maximum power a Scottish government can have.

    I totally sympathise with NS. She is a great politician.

    BTW even if she won a Ref2, it would be a 52/48 kind of thing, and as we know that doesn't settle things all that well.
    But how can we distinguish this from someone pursuing a rational strategy of (i) building up the moral and democratic pressure on the UKG to get another Sindy vote and (ii) at the same time trying to build up enough domestic support for Sindy to win it when it comes - ie following the only realistic route there is to an Independent Scotland by (say) the end of the decade?

    Answer, we can't - because they look the same. By definition they do.

    Therefore, given the evidence supports both, we're faced with a choice. Has she secretly given up on the dream - her lifelong political passion - or is she not only still working on it but following the path she judges the best way to get there?

    It's a no brainer surely. The fair and default assumption is the 2nd. The 1st is a conspiracy theory we don't need because the evidence perfectly fits the default.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    ClippP said:

    OGH said "Over the last week or so 2 or 3 Tory MPs have announced that they will not be standing at the next general election and William Wragg, the member member for Hazelgrove is just the latest.
    His seat was held by the Lib Dems until the 2015 and Davey’s party is working very hard to win it back."

    I cannot but wonder if the good Lib Dem organisation in Hazelgrove and the hard work they are putting in there has as much to do with Mr Wragg's decision to stand down, as dissatisfaction with the Conservative Party leadership in recent years.

    Without being too explicit, I suspect personal reasons form a major part of it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    4-0 to Spain. Torres.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Watching your own colonoscopy is of course an intensely "interesting" experience.
    A few years ago, at a neighbour's Christmas Party, a fella I met was telling me about his colonoscopy, and specifically how the combination of the drugs they gave him and watching the thing on the screen caused him to hallucinate he was in Star Wars, piloting an X-wing starfighter up the caverns of his own rectum.
    Small talk since then hasn't really compared.
    Well, I hope he didn't round the corner and meet any Klingons.
  • Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Watching your own colonoscopy is of course an intensely "interesting" experience.
    A few years ago, at a neighbour's Christmas Party, a fella I met was telling me about his colonoscopy, and specifically how the combination of the drugs they gave him and watching the thing on the screen caused him to hallucinate he was in Star Wars, piloting an X-wing starfighter up the caverns of his own rectum.
    Small talk since then hasn't really compared.
    It's fentantyl. The skill is in timing your request for a top up before the time at which they can say naah, nearly over now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423

    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp

    Also on TWAO today.

    Genuine question: Why aren't iPhones made in a wholly automated factory?

    Should @Leon ask one of his AI friends to look into it?
    Assume it's cheaper to get Chinese workers to do it.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 895
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
    One of the nicest meals I've ever had was a Thai curry made with watermelon. I still think about it years later.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,232
    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots at world’s largest iPhone factory as Chinese workers rebel
    Staff anger at Foxconn over Covid quarantine measures, contracts and conditions" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/riots-at-worlds-largest-iphone-factory-as-chinese-workers-rebel-sj360r8fp

    Also on TWAO today.

    Genuine question: Why aren't iPhones made in a wholly automated factory?

    Should @Leon ask one of his AI friends to look into it?
    Assume it's cheaper to get Chinese workers to do it.
    Must be.

    For good or ill, and I think it's mainly good, our global love affair with globalisation is dimming fast I reckon.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    pigeon said:

    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.

    Politics is supposed to be about values, not money.
  • The prize for the most vindicated legal prediction from 2021 surely goes to Lord Justice Carloway, Lord President of the Court of Session.

    Last April, when declining to rule on an entirely hypothetical case about whether or not the Scottish Parliament had the power to hold a referendum on independence, he observed that were a real case to come before the Supreme Court, it would hinge on whether a bill “relates to the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England”. "Viewed in this way”, he caustically predicted, “it might not be too difficult to arrive at a conclusion”.


    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/supreme-court-ruling-why-a-de-facto-independence-referendum-is-irrelevant-and-politicians-must-decide-on-lawful-indyref2-route-3929288
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    pigeon said:

    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.

    60? I suspect it's a bit older than that tbh.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
    Near but not quite. Yes, she would like independence, but it is plain that, on the consistent polling and the last referendum and the additional problems (especially England/Scotland border) there would be after Brexit, it can't happen. There are not the votes.

    NS is a politician. She knows it can't happen. But can't say so. She wants to stay in power - she is in politics. The only way she can do so is by NOT having Ref2. When Ref2 is lost she would have to resign like Salmond.

    So delay (like the SC nonsense) false prospectuses (next election as referendum etc) keeps the pan on the boil while she exercises the maximum power a Scottish government can have.

    I totally sympathise with NS. She is a great politician.

    BTW even if she won a Ref2, it would be a 52/48 kind of thing, and as we know that doesn't settle things all that well.

    She wants to stay in power? Haven't you received the PB Yoon memo (2016-22) that's she's itching to be off to some UN or similar high powered sinecure?
    It truly is a creative mix of chestnuts rustling in the bag on this topic. We have "she doesn't really want it" and "she does but she's given up" and "if she gets a vote and loses she'll be agitating for another one straightaway" all happily co-existing in there!
  • Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Watching your own colonoscopy is of course an intensely "interesting" experience.
    A few years ago, at a neighbour's Christmas Party, a fella I met was telling me about his colonoscopy, and specifically how the combination of the drugs they gave him and watching the thing on the screen caused him to hallucinate he was in Star Wars, piloting an X-wing starfighter up the caverns of his own rectum.
    Small talk since then hasn't really compared.
    Well, I hope he didn't round the corner and meet any Klingons.
    Wrong franchise, that's Star TREK :lol:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
    One of the nicest meals I've ever had was a Thai curry made with watermelon. I still think about it years later.
    Some meals do stick in the memory, don't they? Probably my most vivid two were 1. An Italian wedding where I gorged on the 1st 5 courses not realizing there were 5 more to come. What a tough 2nd half that was. And 2. When I first bit into this dish called a "brick" in Tunisia. An eggy thing that was literally unimprovable.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,232
    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.

    Politics is supposed to be about values, not money.
    There is one overarching value in modern politics, and it consists of shovelling money upwards - by inflating property prices, lowering death duties to safeguard inherited wealth, and inflation-proofing pensions whilst earned incomes crater and are subjected to an ever-increasing burden of taxation. And that's it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,829

    pigeon said:

    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.

    60? I suspect it's a bit older than that tbh.
    Without skirting around the matter, er, do you mean Tory voters or Tory MPs?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    The Parliamentary Tory Party is merely shifting into line with the average age of a Tory voter come the next election, i.e. around 60. It has nothing to offer anyone but the old.

    60? I suspect it's a bit older than that tbh.
    Without skirting around the matter, er, do you mean Tory voters or Tory MPs?
    Voters
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    This game is now about as much fun as watching a colonoscopy.....

    Watching your own colonoscopy is of course an intensely "interesting" experience.
    A few years ago, at a neighbour's Christmas Party, a fella I met was telling me about his colonoscopy, and specifically how the combination of the drugs they gave him and watching the thing on the screen caused him to hallucinate he was in Star Wars, piloting an X-wing starfighter up the caverns of his own rectum.
    Small talk since then hasn't really compared.
    Well, I hope he didn't round the corner and meet any Klingons.
    Wrong franchise, that's Star TREK :lol:
    Same multiverse though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,829
    kinabalu said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
    One of the nicest meals I've ever had was a Thai curry made with watermelon. I still think about it years later.
    Some meals do stick in the memory, don't they? Probably my most vivid two were 1. An Italian wedding where I gorged on the 1st 5 courses not realizing there were 5 more to come. What a tough 2nd half that was. And 2. When I first bit into this dish called a "brick" in Tunisia. An eggy thing that was literally unimprovable.
    *intrigued* *googles*

    Not at all what I expected.

    https://www.196flavors.com/tunisia-brick-a-loeuf-egg-brick/
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,125
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's response seems a bit weak to me. I'd have thought she'd have gamed out something stronger given the likely outcome of the case.

    She generally seems a cautious character to me, always feels time is on her side and she can take her time.
    She can take her time for the simple reason that Scotland isn't going to vote for independence and that until they have voted NO again NS's position is safe, so the longer this goes on the better. The SC case - the outcome was obvious - was merely a tactic to ensure that the supporters thought she had done all she could, and to buy time. meanwhile there are oceans of jobs for the boys and girls in Edinburgh and Westminster.

    A major problem remains: as long as England is outside the SM and CU then the Gretna border (big razor wire fence perhaps) remains insoluble. The ROI/NI problem proves that fine words and promises don't deliver a solution.

    Lots of others too like, yes we want NATO but not its actual mode of defence thanks..

    Will some Scottish hotheads start outflanking her with talk of UDI and civil disobedience? Maybe there aren't any hotheads.
    Reading the innermost thoughts of Nicola Sturgeon and discovering they are at odds with everything she does and says - what a spooky talent! How about the Edinburgh Fringe next year?
    How kind. Some politicians do display a gap between words, deeds and motives. They all have to read holistically. Opinions may vary.
    I am kind so let's run a test.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a politician whose big cause - the cause of her life - is Sindy. So the suggestion she doesn't really want it now, that she's happy with the status quo, requires some evidence.

    What is it?
    Near but not quite. Yes, she would like independence, but it is plain that, on the consistent polling and the last referendum and the additional problems (especially England/Scotland border) there would be after Brexit, it can't happen. There are not the votes.

    NS is a politician. She knows it can't happen. But can't say so. She wants to stay in power - she is in politics. The only way she can do so is by NOT having Ref2. When Ref2 is lost she would have to resign like Salmond.

    So delay (like the SC nonsense) false prospectuses (next election as referendum etc) keeps the pan on the boil while she exercises the maximum power a Scottish government can have.

    I totally sympathise with NS. She is a great politician.

    BTW even if she won a Ref2, it would be a 52/48 kind of thing, and as we know that doesn't settle things all that well.

    She wants to stay in power? Haven't you received the PB [Unionist] memo (2016-22) that's she's itching to be off to some UN or similar high powered sinecure?
    It truly is a creative mix of chestnuts rustling in the bag on this topic. We have "she doesn't really want it" and "she does but she's given up" and "if she gets a vote and loses she'll be agitating for another one straightaway" all happily co-existing in there!
    Rather giving the lie to the idea of there beiong a "PB [Unionist] memo"!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    edited November 2022
    Driver said:

    Spain looking ominous for German hopes

    Haven't done the maths but I guess the Germans could be as good as out if they lose to Spain?
    Depends, if Costa Rica beat Japan, then Germany beat Costa Rica and Spain beat Japan, that leaves Germany, Japan and Costa Rica all on 3 and it comes down to goal difference between the three.

    Edit: JPN-CRC is before GER-ESP on Sunday, so by kick-off in that latter game it could be "lose and out" for Germany.
    I also pondered whether a team could actually go out with 6pts. Consider this scenario:

    Costa Rica lose to all-comers (quite likely).

    Spain beat Japan

    Germany beat Spain

    ?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,493

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ordered my other half a Xmas pressie, didn’t realise the website is Netherlands-based. It’ll take 10 days from ordering to delivery.

    I mean, I know it’s not the end of the world, it’ll arrive in plenty of time, but 10 days from Holland? Bloody Brexit. No wonder we’re fucked.

    That isn't Brexit related. It is courier capacity/price contingent.

    I can get things to (and from) CA, USA, in 36 hours, Aus 4-5 days. For mainland destinations, excepting those governments with restrictive customs practices (China, Mid East) those are pretty much the extreme outliers.
    Didn’t used to take 10 days though, did it? I got a guitar from Germany a month before we properly left and it was with me two days after ordering. This is 10 days for a bottle of perfume.
    Perfume is a little trickier; there are regulations on its shipment. But even so, I had a bottle of posh perfume from Paris delivered in 3 days (Fedex, I think) last month.
    Did there used to be regs on perfume pre-Brexit?

    I would imagine not.

    So it’s a bit shitter then.

    And as a country we now have to negotiate that little bit of shitness hundreds of thousands of times a day.

    It’s shit. Fuck Brexit.

    I just know that when I get a new passport I’m going to be one of those arseholes who gets a cover for it. But instead of being the kind of driving glove wearing golf club bore who got a blue cover for our EU passports I’ll be a fucking irritating self-hating rootless cosmopolitan Brit with maroon cover over my blue Brexshit one.
    Dangerous and Hazardous goods regs didn't get invented by Brexit....

    As a counter point, my life as an exporter to the EU is made easier by Brexit. Their changes for VAT collection and remitting would be a right PITA.

    The export licensing forms are also easier - they're decided by our own laws rather than EU regs.

    So, YMMV.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 895
    kinabalu said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
    One of the nicest meals I've ever had was a Thai curry made with watermelon. I still think about it years later.
    Some meals do stick in the memory, don't they? Probably my most vivid two were 1. An Italian wedding where I gorged on the 1st 5 courses not realizing there were 5 more to come. What a tough 2nd half that was. And 2. When I first bit into this dish called a "brick" in Tunisia. An eggy thing that was literally unimprovable.
    I've had that 'brick' before - and it is indeed wonderful. Always wondered why it's not made a dent here. Fried spicy eggy dough dish - you'd think it'd be a winner.

    And I'm reminded of an old joke that the biggest problem with a full Italian meal is that four or five days later you begin to feel hungry again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,965
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ooo passion fruit curd! - a taste sensation. Transforms a slice of toast.

    I had fresh papaya with chilli powder the other day. Man that was phenomenal!
    Sounds good actually - in the 'melon and ginger' space.
    One of the nicest meals I've ever had was a Thai curry made with watermelon. I still think about it years later.
    Some meals do stick in the memory, don't they? Probably my most vivid two were 1. An Italian wedding where I gorged on the 1st 5 courses not realizing there were 5 more to come. What a tough 2nd half that was. And 2. When I first bit into this dish called a "brick" in Tunisia. An eggy thing that was literally unimprovable.
    *intrigued* *googles*

    Not at all what I expected.

    https://www.196flavors.com/tunisia-brick-a-loeuf-egg-brick/
    Yep. I've had them since, occasionally, but nothing has ever quite matched that first time. Often the way, I guess.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,640

    nico679 said:

    I’m ardently pro EU but wouldn’t support joining the Eurozone .

    I don't think it's possible to be "ardently" pro-EU but oppose the most significant manifestation of EU integration.
    I disagree. The Euro has been the cause of many of the problems as it’s a one size fits all approach when countries could do with more flexibility in terms of monetary policy .

    I’ve been ardently pro EU because of the cultural links and freedom of movement and working together on a range of issues but in terms of the currency I’ve remained of the belief that the Euro has damaged EU cohesion.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    Driver said:

    Spain looking ominous for German hopes

    Haven't done the maths but I guess the Germans could be as good as out if they lose to Spain?
    Depends, if Costa Rica beat Japan, then Germany beat Costa Rica and Spain beat Japan, that leaves Germany, Japan and Costa Rica all on 3 and it comes down to goal difference between the three.

    Edit: JPN-CRC is before GER-ESP on Sunday, so by kick-off in that latter game it could be "lose and out" for Germany.
    I also pondered whether a team could actually go out with 6pts. Consider this scenario:

    Costa Rica lose to all-comers (quite likely).

    Spain beat Japan

    Germany beat Spain

    ?
    It happened in the 2001 Confederations Cup

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_FIFA_Confederations_Cup#Group_A
This discussion has been closed.